I've been looking to getting some of the IGUS W linear rail systems, they are pretty cheap and seem pretty robust and simple to install.. WWW.IGUS.COM

They would be good for Y and Z for sure,,, I would have to use somethig else for the X

I am just interested in seeing if anyone else has used this (or any other) IGUS Systyem and if there are any photo's that people could post. I have searched the posts and many have said they were going to try,, But I haven't seen any pictures..

Thanks for the help,,,

Jeff

Search for igus here at the zone, you will find heaps of pros 'n' cons.

I decided to not use them. Specially not for the Z-axis...

Cheers,
Sven

I decided to not use them. Specially not for the Z-axis...

Cheers,
Sven

Any particular reason?

I decided also not to use them, their is no way to eliminate free play and the cost was no cheaper then going the linear bearing route.

Kemper..

I also initially went down the IGUS route. Purchased and installed them only to find they did bind when subjected to pressure. The IGUS people then told me that when using their IGUS system you have to design your components like spacings etc to a set formula. The Linerar bearing system like the THK is much more adaptable to your own design requirements.

I think the IGUS is a great concept however I think it may be better suited to specific apps like conveyor tracks etc.

I ended up using the THK style bearings. Excellent.

regards

Frans

Oh, I see you got your answers already. :-)

--Sven

Hey Kemper, I'm in the same boat as you. The IGUS rail system looks very appealing, and up until reading this thread I was set on using them for my machine.

For those out there that know a lot about the alternatives... what's a good replacement system that can handle the same amount of dust/debris without maintenance (as the drylin R linear bearings do -- http://igus.bdol.com/drylinr.asp)?

Losos.....

Unfortunately dust contamination will be a problem with all bearing systems. The amount depends on your Dust Wipers and your dilegence in keeping the area clean.

A friend of mine runs 4 machines continually cutting MDF (very dusty) and his machines use the THK style of bearing. They use a good dust extractor but they also periodically thru the shift clean the rails with compressed air.

Also they don't use grease in the bearings as grease attracts dust like a magnet. They have changed the grease nipples to accept Oil lines and they just Oil the bearings at the start of every shift. A good Oil helps flush out any dirt/dust and also reduces friction. Grease causes more friction and needs more power.

I am afraid you have to live with the dust contamination, but just design to miniimise the dust in the shop and good old fashioned regular cleaning.

cheers

Thanks Moondog, unfortunately I am planning on using my machine to mill surfboards so foam dust will be everywhere. I'd hate to have to constantly be cleaning and oiling the system. Is there anyone out there that recommends using the IGUS rails/bearings?

You might want to look at the Bishop Wisecarver DualV system. http://www.bwc.com/html/dualvee.html They're supposed to be very tolerant of dusty conditions, too.

Thats too bad to hear about the IGUS short comings,,, I really liked them because of mainly the price and ease of lining up the 2 rails,,, since they are joined.

I'm going to have to read the full manual on these babies to see if I can still use them,,, $50 US for a Z axis including the rails, bearings, mountng plate, it pretty damn good,,,

Any idea what the DualV pricing is for something like this,,, and what the side load performance is??

Thanks for all the comments

Jeff

Have you considered designing your your machine so that the long rails are under the the cutting table to be protected from dust. You could also use shrouding or bellows to keep the rails clean. If I had thought about this I would have designed my machine a bit different.

Any idea what the DualV pricing is for something like this,,, and what the side load performance is??



Prices are on their site. You can get them from reidtool.com as well. They handle pretty high loads, at least 500lbs I think (2500+N). That's for the #2 size. I believe this is what the Shopbots use.

If you watch Ebay long enough, you can get some good deals on THK's. I got a pair of 18" 15mm rails (W/ 4 blocks) for $40.

Aww crap!
I am investigating using Igus W for my X and Z and the lighter TK-04 for my moving table.
I will now have to do some more research to determine if these shortcomings will affect me and how. The machine is already running on gas pipe and rollerblade bearings.
I am looking (like everyone else) for a relatively inexpensive system, and I would like to buy new rather than searching for used pieces that "might" fit.
colin

I decided also not to use them, their is no way to eliminate free play and the cost was no cheaper then going the linear bearing route.

Could you recommend sources (other than ebay) for linear bearings that are similar in price to Igus? The Igus stuff is a lot cheaper than 'real' thk similar linear slides in the places I've looked so far.

The Free play issue - the Drylin T supposedly has adjustment. The W doesn't. How would you adjust the freeplay in a THK ball style slide?

I've been bouncing around trying to decide whether to order some Igus stuff. I've used their plastic bearings and carriers on rotating shafts and it's been pretty good. I'm concerned that I'll get stuck with the exact issues CNCAdmin's mentioned - and I've not had them in my hands to play with either. I'd really like to speak to someone who'd used them on a working machine.

I called Igus and had several long email conversations with some engineers from germany about an example 36x36" machine. Basically it came down to the fact that they would work fine - with some significant design limits - and the conversations haven't convinced me to lay out the cash;

Drylin W dual rail and carriage is expected to be used as an axis on its own, as it's aligned from the factory, and not, say with two parallel dual rails supporting a gantry because its unlikely to get the rails lined up enough to avoid binding. They couldn't say whether a 80mm dual would suffice as a Y axis on its own.

The single W rails apparently can be be used as two separate parallel rails for an X or Y axis, they recommended using the new square section rails, but for all types there's a specific set of calculations that limit the width between rails and more importantly the distance between the bearings on each rail. Don't follow the calc and the thing binds. Working it out the recommended distance between bearings on a rail is *significantly* more than a THK linear slide. On a 36" axis the spread would be between 14-20" to avoid binding, depending on the load and drive config.

The Drylin T are supposedly a replacement for ball slides.. But the same distance use calculations apply so the machine is going to be bigger than if ball slides where used. There is some adjustment to allow for misalignement but it was recommended that one rail and bearing set be a master and the other floats with one set of bearing pads removed. That reduces the load in the unsupported plane by half.

The only way I could see to use them on the X axis with two parallel rails, assured to carry the loads and avoid binding where to spread the bearings and drive the x axis from both sides - that is a leadscrew or belt at each bearing.. Costing out the options on the sources I have found two X axis leadscrews and igus T on a 36" cut size comes out about equal to ball slides and one drive screw...

Anyone able to offer some other experiences?

Andrew

The Free play issue - the Drylin T supposedly has adjustment. The W doesn't. How would you adjust the freeplay in a THK ball style slide?


They shouldn't have any. At least none of the THK or IKO's I've gotten from Ebay don't have any play at all.

I can heartily recommend THK. Their products are top notch.
They are also very good in public relations.
You can email them and have a reply in a day or 2, even for a home project.
How many other large companies are going to bother to answer personal emails?

Well, here's my 2 cents...
I've used the Igus W single rails on my 3rd machine build with good results. My machine axis rail lengths are about 48x36x12". Travel is obviously a bit less due to the gantry width etc... so travel is about 34x29x6". I used the single sided rails (2 each) on all axis's with 4 bearing "shuttles" on each axis. All the axis's use 80/20 extruded aluminum and 6061 aluminum plate for the frame which is mounted on a welded steel tube frame. Originally my X axis rails were 36' apart and mounted to the bottom of the gantry supports which were 12 inches or so. I was missing steps at higher travel speeds 40 ipm or so, but was ok at slower speeds (10-15 ipm). Motor torque didn't seem to be an issue and although I couldn't detect any binding, I extended the gantry supports to 14 inches, and exchanged the 3/8 8tpi acme screws and nylon nuts for 5/8 5tpi ballscrews.
Although I'm still testing, it seems to be fine, but I can't say which fixed my missing step problem, but most likely a little of both. For those interested, the motors are 276oz nema 23's driven at a little more than 24 volts by a xylotek board and mach 2. One thing I did have issues with is interference when the spindle is running. It runs perfect with the spindle (porter cable laminate trimmer with a variable speed controller) off, but is a little jittery when it's on. I used a different power source circuit for the spindle and isolated its power cord away from the stepper cables and moved the driver card further away from the power supply and it seems to have fixed that issue.
All in all I'm happy with the Igus W rails and shuttles and would venture for a even smaller machine they would be perfect. They are very smooth and solid, seem to operate well in the dusty router environment and the replacement bearing inserts are cheap and lube free. Obviously the friction coefficient isn't as low as good thk's, but for the cost they are worth considering for fairly precise rails instead of investing lots of cash or using lower precision drawer slides or skate bearings. I think as long as you have a good basic design, use ballscrews and keep everything straight/true they are fine. If you can use larger steppers or even geckos and servo motors so much the better. I did consider dual steppers on the X, but the single stepper/ballscrew center mounted seems to be fine. When I get a chance I'll take a couple of photos and post if anyone is interested.
-marc

Marc,
Sounds like a nice machine. I have had much luck with the Igus "W"'s as well. They are not for every application but have worked great where needed for me. I have used them on a home made lathe bed, and worked great. And I have used them on a long over-hanging X axis and again with wonderfull results. The Igus T is another one that is not for everyone, but when the application is right, the price is right and the load ratings are great. THK's are pricy, I prefer some of the knock-offs at half the price when I can. But again, it is application driven as well as price. When I need to spend the money on THK's I do.
Glen

Coherent - I'm sure there would be plenty of interest in seeing your setup. I don't think I've ever seen the W's in anyone else's projects so far...

Well, I finally got around to calling IGUS. THey actually sent me a sample of the 40mm W! 4 carriages and 300mm length of W track. Very nice indeed.
I worked out the specifics with an engineer on the phone and he calculated that everything will work just fine in my application. He said that the only places people have problems is in the moving gantry type of tables. I suspect that lack of rigidity has a lot to do with this problem.
So, W for my x axis and Z axis, and TK-04 style for themoving table it will be! Cool.
Total price for all 3 axes should work out to be under the $300 mark, which I kind of thought was still a little high.
Where can I get prices for THK and the 1/2 price knock offs? Just to compare.
Colin

Colin,
Well, I am having a brain fart. I have to look and get you the info on knock offs. It is a company I have ordered from many times, prices are great and product is very high quality. If I dont get back to you, send me a reminder and I will look it up for you.
Glen
PS. I am glad you like the Igus stuff. I have had some very good results with them over the years. I was going to post some of the lathe but the guy I make them for asked me not to, customer comes first!

I am excited to get going on my re-design. These samples they sent look very good for this type of machine (i.e. solid hobby quality).
You make lathes?? I am curious...
Colin

BigDaddyG are the thk knockoffs an exact replica of THK? Cause I need a 36"
rail only to fit sr25w carriages, would they work?

CNCAdmin, you said earlier that the IGUS were no cheaper than the ball bearing ones.
I have looked high and low and cant find any ball bearing slides for even twice the price of IGUS. Can you give us some links? To new stuff preferably, ones we can order to the sizes we need.
Colin

Sorry for not getting them up sooner, but as promised I took a few photos of my machine which uses the Igus W rails. They are working great with the Ballscrews/Nuts. Each Axis rapids at about 180 IPM at the current settings, and when they are all rapid moving, Mach 2 shows a speed of about 300 IPM... Any questions, feel free to ask. (Photos are under "coherent" in the member gallery. Not sure how to put a link to it here, moderator, feel free to do so!)

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php/ppuser/331/cat/500


-marc

Colin,
Well, I am having a brain fart. I have to look and get you the info on knock offs. It is a company I have ordered from many times, prices are great and product is very high quality. If I dont get back to you, send me a reminder and I will look it up for you.
Glen
PS. I am glad you like the Igus stuff. I have had some very good results with them over the years. I was going to post some of the lathe but the guy I make them for asked me not to, customer comes first!

I too am interested in a sorce for the knock offs, could you please post a link or pm me with the info. Thanks in advance.

Marc,

How are the Igus W rails working out for you? I think I'd like to do something similar.

I looked at your photos in your galley, but they were kinda small, and the x rail was not very clear.

Do you suppose you could take some more photos? I am trying to see the lower 80/20 rail, the igus W x rail, and the shuttle.

Thanks,

Mike...

Sorry for not getting them up sooner, but as promised I took a few photos of my machine which uses the Igus W rails. They are working great with the Ballscrews/Nuts. Each Axis rapids at about 180 IPM at the current settings, and when they are all rapid moving, Mach 2 shows a speed of about 300 IPM... Any questions, feel free to ask. (Photos are under "coherent" in the member gallery. Not sure how to put a link to it here, moderator, feel free to do so!)

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php/ppuser/331/cat/500


-marc