OK I have started to design my new laser, so far this is what I'm going with-

1) 5/8" feather shafting mounted on end supports

2) cutting area of 24" x 48"

3) nema 23 frame stepper motors

4) belt driven X and Y

5) simplicity linear bearing with my own billow blocks

6) 20w RF co2 laser w/ 80 volt power supply

Paul, I'm not the expert on this, but I think that there are a few more things you need for a working system.

1. The Z axis must float over the material. Its very important the the laser beam is focused exactly at the right point. Its kind of like holding a magnifying lense over a piece of paper. You have to move it up and down to get the proper pin point of light to burn the paper. Your 5/8" rails will sag. The material will warp and bow. You have to make up the difference with the Z axis.

Maybe someone else can chime in with some real life experience. You must not be cutting much with only a 20 watt laser. Balsa wood?

2. You will need some kind of baffle to sit your parts on. Honeycomb plastic should work well.

3. A fume extraction under the table would be helpful so you don't smoke up the place.

Good luck and keep us informed

Trent

Paul, I'm not the expert on this, but I think that there are a few more things you need for a working system.

1. The Z axis must float over the material. Its very important the the laser beam is focused exactly at the right point. Its kind of like holding a magnifying lense over a piece of paper. You have to move it up and down to get the proper pin point of light to burn the paper. Your 5/8" rails will sag. The material will warp and bow. You have to make up the difference with the Z axis.


1) I think 5/8" would be more than enough, the carnage that will be holding the lens should be less than 5lbs, so the amount of sag will be less than +/-.001 ? I do need to play with some numbers.



Maybe someone else can chime in with some real life experience. You must not be cutting much with only a 20 watt laser. Balsa wood?

2. You will need some kind of baffle to sit your parts on. Honeycomb plastic should work well.
3. A fume extraction under the table would be helpful so you don't smoke up the place.



1)with 20w I will be cutting balsa, ply, foam as well as engraving, and vinyl cutting.

2,3) I plan on using alum honeycomb material with a pan on the bottom for vacume and to terminate the laser beam.


BTW here is the laser I bought- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3860621972&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT

Does anyone have some experience with feather shafts and bearings?

Regarding the sag....I put those numbers on the other thread....so with a 5/8 inch end supported rail the deflection at the center with 10 lbs is 0.100 inches....the 0.001 is the straightness of the Thomson shafting per 12 inch length.

Regarding the sag....I put those numbers on the other thread....so with a 5/8 inch end supported rail the deflection at the center with 10 lbs is 0.100 inches....the 0.001 is the straightness of the Thomson shafting per 12 inch length.

That's a solid shaft right? .100 should be acceptable I would think, I could always add a support in the middle?

The 5/8" Feather shafting is the Pacific bearing CC10 stuff? Then I've used it on a sliding table for my table saw which isn't very relevant. Surplus stuff but its works well for that.

Note it's 6061-T6 so has a modulus of 10,000kpsi. 48" of 5/8" feather shafting with ends simply supported with a central 5lb load will deflect 0.1538". Fixed ends drop that to 0.0385"

24" shaft will deflect 0.0192 and 0.0048 respectively.

If you use the Pacific End support blocks I'd suggest you'd be more towards the fixed end figure.

nice buy on the laser !

Andrew

Next time I decide to dig out my bearing catalog and do some deflection calculations, I'll just wait 20 minutes for you guys to do it. :(

Ah, I cheated -- I still had the spreadsheet from when I was working out the tablesaw.... Used the same 5/8" stuff...

Only problem with it was cutting it to length by hand. The coating is RC70 which is harder than SS or drill rod.. Took a bit of effort to get the hacksaw started without it skating all over the place...

besides, you have to keep the moderator happy!

Well after much designing I have started over, I found a cheap more accurate way of getting this thing moving. I won't go into it yet, but I have ordered some material for testing, but I think I really found a great solution to using thk or linear bearings.

Oh come on give us a hint.

Is it cheaper?

Stronger?

More precision?

Lasts longer?

Or all of the above????

Here is a first look at my design.........

The design is done and now I just have to prototype the whole thing. So far it looks like the machine will cost about 1,000.00 not bad. This design could easily be used for a small dremal router.

I have decided on a new material from 80/20, that will be much easier to work with and a little cheaper. The design is going to allow for minimal machining. I will post the progress with pics as I start to assemble the machine.

New material?

80/20 sells this extrusion that is a 1.5 x 1.5 tube with a leg 1/8" thk. I'll post a pic or it, I have a sample. It's cheap to at .44 a inch.

Got one set of mirrors and should have my laser today. I'm still waiting on a track and wheels to see if they will work well enough for my leaner drive system. The design and drawings are done and as long as I keep the components I plan on using, I can go right to producing the frame. I'll post some pics on the progress when I make some :)

paul, i'm in the process of bidding on the same type of laser system. how much and where are you getting your optics? also any info on the 84v power supply would be appreciated as well. price? i already have a cnc platform to place this on so it should go fairly smoothly i hope. :) thanks, toby....

paul, i'm in the process of bidding on the same type of laser system. how much and where are you getting your optics? also any info on the 84v power supply would be appreciated as well. price? i already have a cnc platform to place this on so it should go fairly smoothly i hope. :) thanks, toby....


I got the mirrors on ebay, the lens I bought from the ebay seller of that laser. You need 3/4" to 1 1/2" focal length. For the power supply, I have a transformer that will work, you only need about 8amps and 80-84 volts. If you are cutting foam make sure your will ventilated the fumes that will come off are cancer causing. Another thing is that that laser is not high powered it's only about 7 watts and can only run 70-80% duty cycle, which means it may not run for more than a few mins with-out over heating, once it over heats it can be destroyed. Once I get mine running, I'm going to sell it and get a full 20w laser tube, I already have a power supply for it.

have you found any cost effective 20w lasers yet? if so, where? i'm looking at cutting mostly 1/16" & 3/32" balsa and also maybe depron. i hear you about the fumes, not good. thanks for the help! great site! toby silhavy
www.silhavyaerosports.net

This place has a 20w http://www.amazing1.com/burning-lasers.htm

Could a 20w laser like that cut fiberglass cloth (assuming a lightweight fiberglass like 6 oz e glass)? If so, would it produce a clean edge or would it leave burn marks?

Hello Paul

I was just wondering how the progress going on this project. I am also trying to figure out how to get a reasonable price laser cutter. Looks like a good way to go. Do you have a part list for this project yet? Also any ideas on where I can track down all the parts?

This might be a good finial project for my school.

Thanks

Colin

I'm in the process of cutting all my parts out, while re-drawing them in Alibre design program. This weekend I will be assembling the frame and will have pictures to share, I have a bunch of projects going on at the same time right now. The laser has been housed and mounted to a heat sink and now I just need to mount the fan.

I'm in the process of cutting all my parts out, while re-drawing them in Alibre design program. This weekend I will be assembling the frame and will have pictures to share, I have a bunch of projects going on at the same time right now. The laser has been housed and mounted to a heat sink and now I just need to mount the fan.

Look forward to seeing the pictures.

I am just trying to figure out how much it would cost to build one of these units. In few months I will be doing my finial research project for my Computerized Manufacturing Coarse. Right now I need to see if this would be a feasible project. If it is I am going to have to write a proposal for my teacher to review. Do you have anymore links to where I can get more info on this?

Thanks

Colin

Their none that I have found on the Internet of homebuilt cnc laser machines. This site is it. Their one place that sells kit but he will not tell you about any thing about the mechanics of the machine.

No Problem

Well then thanks for providing us with some info on them.

Colin

I fired my laser last night, and it was sweet. of course I forget to bring my camera and video camera. It's very cool how RF co2 laser's work, it cut a piece of 1/2" ply wood with little trouble, mind you the wood was feed in front of it and we did not have anything to suck the smoke it made. I ran it as 35% duty cycle and at 50% and the laser did not get hot for the 30sec it was run, which surprised me.

I hope to have some pictures of all this, and the completed trucks for the machine it's self this weekend.

Sweet

Please keep us informed

Thanks

Colin

Here are a bunch of new picture of my progress-

Paul, I am watching this thread with keen interest.
Of recent I have been ringing around trying to find additional cutting work, and the word I am hearing too many times is "Laser" I guess I will follow your path depending on your success.

What is the duty cycle of your laser?
When you cut the 1/2 inch ply at what feedrate do you think it would be able to cut?
20 watts sounds quite small when you hear about industrial lasers been 2000watts. Does this only mean the feed rate of the cut can be increased with the more powerful lasers?

I am also keen to see lots of pics of your laser, even while it is not working.

The duty cycle is 35% and I don't think it will cut through 1/2" it did cut through 1/8 ply. I'm using it for cutting foam. My laser turns out to be 7watts, I'm in the works for a 20 or a 50watt laser.

[QUOTE=CNCadmin] I'm suing it for cutting foam. QUOTE]

That might be a hard case to win. Be sure and contact a good attorney. ;)

1)with 20w I will be cutting balsa, ply, foam as well as engraving, and vinyl cutting.



Take this with a grain of salt...

Since December 2004, I have been looking to purchase a commercial (universal, epilog) laser engraver.

It has been a big learning curve it what it's capabilities are as well as what materials and thicknesses you can get away with for your final product.

One thing ALL of them have mentioned is DO NOT USE PVC OR VINYL (Polyvinyl chloride) or any other material (plastics/polymers) that have the word "chlor" in them.

There are two reasons for this...

1) When hit with the laser (or any other flame), they product (HCL) Hydrochloric Acid Gas which is potentially leathal to breath.

Even with a good blower/exhaust system this is a bad idea.


2) The HCL gas WILL begin to corrode and eat thru metal parts. So if it's cut/used often enough you could have some serious exposure buildup.


FWIW (for what it's worth)... all plastics (polymers) outgas, just not to the extreme it is when hit with a laser.

Another example is green floral foam... Most of it is made with formaldehyde (aka embalming fluid) and when cut using a hot-wire can also produce some toxic outgassing as well.

I'm I trying to scare ya?
Ok, maybe a little bit, just trying to get people's attention is all.

I just wanted to make sure folks completely understand that there are materials out there that when hit with high heat/flame can be a very bad thing and potential lethal.

Jymmm

Their are so many people cutting foam, with no problems, the downdraft from a blow should be more than adequate to remove any flumes associated with cutting such material. The only foam I will be cutting is polystyrene. The vinyl cutting is cutting for graphics.

The only foam I will be cutting is polystyrene. The vinyl cutting is cutting for graphics.

The EPS (expanded poly styrene or Styrafoam) is not a problem at all, neither is acrylic, delrin, and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.
ABS being a really nasty material to work with.

It's the VINYL cutting for graphics that's suppose to be a big no-no on a laser.

All the commerical vinyl cutters use a blade of some sort or another.

After seeing what a laser can do, it's would be no sweat for it to produce some awesome results with a laser - far better and faster than a razor blade can, but at a serious health risk.

They do not make any mention of any other materials that will void the warranty except vinyl/pvc.

Food for thought.

Jymmm...

Interesting about the vinyl, I think I'll stay away from cutting that with the laser. What is the exposure risk with the polystyrene?

Interesting about the vinyl, I think I'll stay away from cutting that with the laser. What is the exposure risk with the polystyrene?

The EPS... none at all, not even cast acrylic. Extruded acrylic will stink like crazy. So much so that you will WISH you were sprayed by a skunk just to make it smell better.

The only thing is that lets say you want to cut out 1" thick EPS letters (as example) the kerf will be thinner at the top, and wider at the bottom of the material. But this is more of a learning curve, and you might be able just to make another pass to accompish the final result.

Also, since you have a 20Watt laser, what they have been telling me is if you want to cut 1/4" wood, sometime it's better to make two or three passes to get all the way thru the material instead of slowing the motion down.

What happens in on the first pass of the laser, you'll get maybe 60% thru, then have some char. On the second spass you might get thru the char and now 80%.

I've also been told that it's sometimes faster to make multiple passes than to just slow the motion down.

If you want to see some samples and materials, check out:
http://laserproi.gccworld.com/en/engr_showcase_main.php

Like I said, I was shopping for a commercial laer engraver, but $14K USD for a 30 Watt with only a 12" x 24" cutting area, I've decided to seriously look into making my own. So please let me know how your coming along =)

Jim...

I've been working like a mad man to get my machine done, I must have logged in close to 30 hours. This weekend I should have the laser hooked up to the frame and ready to start cutting. I found a great place to buy laser tubes and power supplies- http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/steveluo66 and in a few weeks will be buying a 50 watt laser and selling the one I have now. I will post some pics of the machine now that it is all assembled. I'm very pleased with the out come.

I also bought a 3w laser diode to play with, as see what a solid state laser can do. They are pretty neat those laser diodes.

I found a great place to buy laser tubes and power supplies- http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/steveluo66 and in a few weeks will be buying a 50 watt laser

Be sure to ask them about importing it into the USA as well as contact customs and FDA.

I heard that some lasers are not allowed to be imported into the US under certain cercumstances and what they've (customs) been doing is telling the receiver it'll be destroyed or returned.

Jim...

Wonderful.... well will see I'm ordering next week.

Paul, how much is this costing?

50watt and power supply 930.00 shipped if I bought that in the states it would be 2800.00 on up.

Wonderful.... well will see I'm ordering next week.

Heh... I'm sorry man, really dont' mean to scare ya!

I've been shopping around for lasers (new/used) myself, and been talking to a LOT of people, how much of that is true or not is unknown, but better to be safe than sorry.

I REALLY hope it goes well, cause I'll be placing an order myself!

Jim...

The guy I'm dealling with is on the ball, and answers all emails, how can you beat the price.

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/comp/internetlasers.html

"What FDA Can Do

FDA’s authority is over the manufacturers of laser products. These products must meet a federal standard for the amount of radiation they can emit and must be properly labeled. FDA is working to identify manufacturers of overpowered green laser pointers and other illegal laser products and will take action to prevent unsafe products from being sold in the United States. If illegal products are imported into the U.S., they may be refused entry, returned to the seller, or destroyed. "

So how does this guy get away with it http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/index.htm he buys them from the same guy.

FDA’s authority is over the manufacturers of laser products. These products must meet a federal standard for the amount of radiation they can emit and must be properly labeled. FDA is working to identify manufacturers of overpowered green laser pointers and other illegal laser products and will take action to prevent unsafe products from being sold in the United States. If illegal products are imported into the U.S., they may be refused entry, returned to the seller, or destroyed. "

Remember the days when there was swings in the park, and round abouts, etc. Remember the days when you could take a picture of your kids in the park without been viewed as a paedophile.

People tell us we live in a free society. Crap

jymmm, you may be right in what you post, but please dont tell us about it. The glass is half full, right?

Paul, Please delete this post in 24 hours

re-read it it's only for green laser diode lasers-FDA’s authority is over the manufacturers of laser products. These products must meet a federal standard for the amount of radiation they can emit and must be properly labeled. FDA is working to identify manufacturers of overpowered green laser pointers and other illegal laser products and will take action to prevent unsafe products from being sold in the United States. If illegal products are imported into the U.S., they may be refused entry, returned to the seller, or destroyed.

So how does this guy get away with it http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/index.htm he buys them from the same guy.

It's all in the wording...

The FDA website mentions sale to "general public", not to manufactures.
So I suspect it's the mfg's responsability to label/use devices correctly.

It also restricts medical lasers to licensed practitioners.
So, when does a laser become a "medical laser" ?!?!?!?!

Probably when it gets a FDA certification, I'd suspect.

So, when is it no longer a "medical laser"?
After it's been "salvaged" (scrapped for parts) maybe.



So, if/when you get a call from US Customs, when you order arrives, just be sure to measure your words properly if in question.

It's all about CYA
Jim...

re-read it it's only for green laser

Read again...

"...and other illegal laser products "


"green lasers" are only mentioned I suspect due to the media proiganda.
There are CO2, Yag, Argon, UV, Diode, IR, and a whole lot more lasers out there
far more powerful than 'green' laser pointers.

Paul,
Could you explain how you take the laser beam from the tube, probably away of your machine, to the z axis?

Thanks,
Alex

Paul,
Could you explain how you take the laser beam from the tube, probably away of your machine, to the z axis?

Thanks,
Alex


The laser tube itself is stationary.

Special optical mirrors are used to "bounce" the beam around the table, then typically a lens is used to 'focus' the beam.

The principal is the same as using a magnifying lens when you were a kid to burn a leaf.

Yes the focusing lens come at different focal lenghts, the distance away from the work.

Yes the focusing lens come at different focal lenghts, the distance away from the work.

Paul,

Have you made any choices in optics and found any good sources yet?

Jim...

I already have my mirrors and lens.

I already have my mirrors and lens.

AH, cool...
What are you using?

3/4" focal length and gold mirrors, I got them off of ebay.

Ok, but the axis are moving..How do you keep the beam in track with your moving optics?

The laser shoots down the X and picks up a mirror that shoots it down the Y. The beam is always in contact with the mirror shooting down the Y. See the pictures here - http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/xy.htm

I spoke to my guy in china and he has had no problems shipping lasers to the US.

I spoke to my guy in china and he has had no problems shipping lasers to the US.


Good to hear there hasn't been any problems.

Do you know if they have 110/220VAC PSU's as well, or just 220VAC?

They have 110v, and that is what I'm ordering.

The laser shoots down the X and picks up a mirror that shoots it down the Y. The beam is always in contact with the mirror shooting down the Y. See the pictures here - http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/xy.htm

Question...

On the commercial laser engravers I've seen, instead of having the Z axis on the gantry, they raise/lower the table itself to focus to the height of the workpiece.

It's hard to tell from the photos in that link, but is he/are you going to be able to laser engrave things that are (lets say) 4" tall, like the lid of a jewelery box?

I'm trying to figure out the minimum quantity of mirrors needed to do this and I'm getting stummped. If I were to mount the laser as if it was aimed at the ceiling without any mirrors, then no problem.

But this laser is almost 50" long, and that doesn't seem practical for many reasons, does it?

Jim...

I'm using 4 mirrors and the laser will be mounted parallel to the X. My laser head with the lens is adjustable up and down. The machine I'm building for a very specific purpose so I would not be able to engrave anything that tall.

Here is my co2 for sale- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11809&item=3878968804&rd=1

My new laser is on order and should be hear in 2 weeks, so will see how it goes.

My First Post. My first impression is that this is a great place to be. I wish I had access to this site 7 years ago when I built up my first cnc conversion of a Taylor Hobson engraving pentagraph (light milling machine). At present (last 3 years) working on conversion of a Japanese 1.5 ton drawing machine, to a laser cutting table (900 x 700 mm) Having troubles with modulation control of a 40w Laakman (1982) Laser. (unit was missing its control when purchased
I'll be here often
Kiwi from down under (New Zealand)

Got my lasers today.

Got my lasers today.

So, where's the photos of your new baby? =)

I'll get some up asap, I have the mechanics all done and spent the weekend painting the base for the mechanics to sit on. I tested the speed of the stepper motors and I can easily get the 300ipm I was looking for. I so pleased with how my design worked out. Now I just need to mount the laser, mirrors, lens and I'll be on my way to cutting parts.

Paul
I'm very interested in your new laser (Cost , power , supplier , use you are putting it to etc)
I've been checking out Chinese lasers,
http:www.//chinaoptronics.com
Is this your source?
Kiwi Keith

Paul

How is this project going?

I have also contacted the Chinese lasers people at
http://www.chinaoptronics.com . I got a quick reply and thought I would post
a sample price. They forwarded prices for tubes from 4W to 80W. I will upload the price/product list if anyone is interested. I am seriously thinking about building a xy laser table
similar to the one in discussion here but want to wait to see how this project goes.

50 watt tube (length 1250 mm) - $296.00
Matching Power Supply $650.00

This does not cover air freight. They want payment via wire transfer. Shipment
within 20 cays.

This is a very informative thread. I hope it continues. Thanks.

Kent

It's going well, I only have weekends to work on the laser, but all that is left is to bolt-up the mechanics to my base and hook up the laser and all the wiring. Than I have to make a few mirror holders and a fixture for my cold mirror for visible laser alignment. The price you gave probably does not include shipping that will be another 200.00 +/-.

Hello,

http://www.emissionstechnologies.com sells plans, tubes, parts kits, optics and everything else you need to build a laser cutting table.

Hope this helps,

Ballendo


Their none that I have found on the Internet of homebuilt cnc laser machines. This site is it. Their one place that sells kit but he will not tell you about any thing about the mechanics of the machine.

Hello,

http://www.emissionstechnologies.com sells plans, tubes, parts kits, optics and everything else you need to build a laser cutting table.

Hope this helps,

Ballendo

He is WAY to exspensive on his laser tubes and power supplies.

ok so lasers are new to me , but is it possible to use fibre optic's to carry the light from the laser to the what i would call the cutting head , i.e the z carrage , or because of the levels involved it's beyond being done because of cost or safety, anyway i look forward to reading this thread so i can get more insight into what is needed , before i buy the wrong bits for cutting Balsa & liteply , look forward to pics too .

Dave

He is WAY to exspensive on his laser tubes and power supplies.

Paul.

Agreed. But what do you think of his table and optical delivery?

Ballendo

P.S. Is the best source you've found the "made in China" Link you posted earl;ier in the thread?

His table is a good design, but if you have a way I'd build your own, my machine is a much better design than his is and was 1/4 of his price to build. I'm using hobbycnc driver board and his steppers adding to the reduce in total cost.

Well, I made lots of progress, this weekend, I have the plywood installed, install the vent, heat exchanger and layout all the components (psu, controller etc). I now need to make a container for my water pump, I'm going to submerse it. I also have my lens holder done. I will post pictures of everything as soon as I can.

What did you end up doing for the cooling system? Did you end up going with the 650gph pump you were talking about? You mention above the "heat exchanger". What did you use, water to water? (as opposed to liquid (water) to air like a radiator in a car or an oil cooler) Like everyone else I'm looking forward to seeing more pics and good luck with the project.
Skippy

Yes I did, and I used a oil cooler used for transmission cooling.

Paul, I don't want to be a wet blanket BUT if the trans cooler came from a car it would be lucky to flow 100 - 150gph and you'll probably find that the 650gph pump will attempt to run at too higher pressure (not that centrifugal pumps are capable of all that much pressure) due to the restriction caused by the small orifices of the cooler OR it will develop cavitation within the cooler or pump. You will probably need to run a bleed off tap (as first suggested by Ynneb) just after the pump but before the laser. Crack open the bleed off tap sufficiently to dump as much excess flow straight back to reservoir but still keeping the return water (that which passes by laser tube) and at a manageable temp level (that's the unscientific method without resorting to pressure guages and pressure meters). You may have already done this or you may have decided on something else. Your machine = your decisions. I'm enjoying watching your progress.
Skippy

The pump will not cavitate when being pushed through a 1/4" hole, ( I tested it) but I do plan on using a bypass to keep the presuser low. This is the same pump that is used for medical lasers.

This is where I got my info from-
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasercc2.htm
"The 25 to 50 W Sharplan lasers use a 22 litre per minute plastic pump made in Germany by a company called Eheim (model 1060). It's got a nonconductive case and rotor but is not self priming. They have a 1 liter reservoir above the pump to keep a constant level in the system. The radiator used is a 6" by 8" unit with 3 layers of fins, 1/4" tubing in the core, and a 200 cfm fan."

(A) As we hadn’t heard any more re your cooling system in the earlier thread I therefore didn’t know where you were at with it. The major problem with that earlier discussion was that no one had any base figures (ideal requirements) to work with BUT I see you now have that. Certainly, using the Sharplan example as model to work from, your cooling system set up including the “bleed off” should be fine. What’s more it didn’t/won’t cost you much in terms of money/floor space/set up time.

(B) I notice that quite a few people are hanging on the results of this project. You’ve voluntarily made yourself the test “Guinea pig” for this area (low cost laser projects) of cnc development so once again, good luck with it. (Hopefully you use that same expression in the US)

Paul, do you get the feeling that we, as a group are putting you under pressure here? I hope so. What's this about no time? Day job + home life + 10 hobby projects on the go + 5 cnc/workshop projects on the go + website to run. Piece of cake! hehe! Hang in there!
Skippy

This weekend, I hope to have it 95% done, I'll take lots of pictures and a summary of what I have done. I'm pretty sure that the cooling in a non issue any more. I wish I had more time to work on it, and fill all you guys in.

can't wait for the big Hurrah! it works , then it's off to the bank for a Loan

for balsa parts etc what size laser is resonable or do you need to get into the 100w range etc , or will 5 or 10w fit the bill , also look forward to more details on parts and construction too .

Dave

in case anyone's interested I bought a neslab hx100 cooler and installed recently. Its about the size of a dishwashing machine, and sounds like a compressor for a standard walk-in fridge. Its sits in the basement between the washer and the dryer. I hooked it up to 220, and ran 3/4 pvc pipe between it and the laser that is in another room. The system works great. I bought a very inexpensive outdoor thermometer from home depot. These have a small pill shaped unit with adhesive on them that are meant to be stuck on windows to get a temperature measurement of the outside. I placed the pill on brass tubing leading into the laser to monitor the temperature, and there is basically no variation once the laser stabilizes with the system. Runs at a cool 20 degrees C. The neslab cost $500 on ebay.


owen

Very cool, I checked themn out on ebay, might be a great way to go if I step-up to a 100 watt laser.

Here is some long awaited pictures of my progress

Here is the laser PSU and the stepper controller case and my radiator-

Here is my beam aligning device, this is sold as you see if from emission technology for 500.00 it cost me 40.00 to make myself.

I reconize that beam aligning laser diode. Out of a toy gun hey?
Tell us how you use it. Do you have to shoot the beam back into itself to find alignment?

I just cant wait for you to show us some cutting pics or even a video.

The red (650nm) beam hit that piece of special mirror that lets IR (10.6nm) pass but reflects the visible into the path of the IR.

This week I will get the beam locator thingy glued on the end of the laser tube and begin aligning all the mirrors. Once that's done, it's just a few more wires to hook up away, and we fire the laser!

Here is the busy end of the laser-

This weekend I should have the laser tube installed and the plumbing hooked up, and next week I should be cutting. :) I'll post more pictures this weekend of my progress.

Just out of curiosity.... And the fact that I have "NO IDEA". How does the beam get to the (you know the cutting thing... culminator? ) I know the Laser doesn't sit on the gantry and get moved around. So what's the trick?

Gold mirrors.

This weekend I should have the laser tube installed and the plumbing hooked up, and next week I should be cutting. :) I'll post more pictures this weekend of my progress.

how is alignment going? You reckon it will be pretty straightforward?

I have some suggestions if you need them.

owen

I'm firing up my laser tube tomorrow, I will try to post some pic and maybe video of it.

I read your post and thought I could come up with some kind of sage wisdom (e.g. "Good luck, and keep your finger out of the beam", or "Remember: you can never keep a laser too cool.")

However, wisdom, sage or otherwise, didnt really spring forth.

I worked for a year and a half on mine and thought the big day would be really big, and in some ways it wasnt. It was more like okay I got the power, the alignment, the watts are fine, put on the oxygen, the focus is good okay, no wonder it cuts.

But anyhoo, good luck! Period.

You've been at it quite a while and its your turn now.

owen

...and?

Well, I got the laser all hooked up and got the power supply turned on and hit the trigger voltage button and just hear a clicking noise. To make a long story short the laser tube was hooked up back-wards and the water was being hit with 20k of voltage, and lucky I kept my hands to myself, and did not get electrocuted. After I switched the power around, the laser works perfect and burned a 1/8" hole into a piece of popular. I did not have any instructions to identify the anode and the cathode. The water pump is work but their is a air bubble about 2 inch long on the end of the tube that won't go away, but the water is flowing and I see no problem with it keeping the laser cool.

The big problem is getting the mirror lined up, it's way to much for me to explain, but I have a solution for it. I have to add a 4th mirror to the set-up, but once I do that I should have them all lined up. I hope by this weekend I will have this thing cutting.

not that it sounds like you're looking for advice but I'll offer it anyway...

For the optics leading up to your focusing lens, use a crude system to make sure the beam is hitting the center of the optics through your delivery system. So you could put an index card in front of an optic, turn on the laser then see where it hit, adjust, put in a new card, and hit the laser again, repeat as necessary.

Tape or index cards work great. Be sure to avoid putting smoke from either on your optics.

Do you have a cutting nozzle for flowing air or gas? I did and the problem is the port on the nozzle is only 1mm and alignment into that was very hard. There was a threaded tube that holds the nozzle, what I did was make a "tool" that fits into the tube and locates the exact center of a tube. I would place scotch tape over the tube. The tool put a pin prick into the tape, and this represented exactly where the beam was supposed to hit. Then I'd thread the tube into the cutting head, pulse the laser, look at the beam location, adjust optics and repeat.

Always use a really low power and really short pulse when doing this. Hitting stuff with higher power creates too much scatter and you cant get reliable results.

When the time comes another really great tool is a heat sensitive paper, like the kind that is found on many receipts or fax machines. This allows you to set the laser on really low power, place the paper on work surface where you eventually be cutting, pulse the laser and look at the quality of the beam. The issue is that even if the beam is going to the work surface the beam may not be perfectly round (okay, even moderately round). When that happens there are usually problems with cutting. Again, use really low power pulses.

The other thing the heat sensitive paper allows you to do is optimize the distance between the focussing lens and your part. As you probably know the smaller the beam size the better because that's putting more power into a concentrated spot. In my case if I dont have a 200 micron spot size then I aint cutting metal. So anyway the thermal paper allows you to set the distance, pulse the laser, inspect the spot size, adjust and repeat.

To give you an idea the attached picture shows what happens to the spot size when the distance is changed.

I have some other descriptions of beam adjustment at:

http://www.nilno.com/laser_dir/alignment/650_hole2.jpg

I bought some thermal paper that's embedded on thin cardboard, it was expensive but I have a lot now, if you send me a land mail address to (owhite@tigr.org) I'll snailmail you some.


owen

I did not have any instructions to identify the anode and the cathode.

I'm glad this worked out because I once heard that if you hook up the polarity of the laser incorrectly then you permanently damage the tube. I'm glad what I heard was wrong.

Well it's not damaged, but I can see why, it could cause plating, but in this case all it did was charge the water, I don't see any damage in the tube and as cheap as the tube is, I can just order another one. I'm hoping to have the mirror all done by this weekend, I'm machining every chance I get. Than I have to do a final adjustment on the mechanics and off I go.

not that it sounds like you're looking for advice but I'll offer it anyway...

owen

Thanks what you said is VERY helpful!

is the electronics of your system such that you can control the pulse length and power?

owen

is the electronics of your system such that you can control the pulse length and power?

owen


Yes with ether a knob the controls the MA or using TTL through the computer.

BTW I sent you a email.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7450

progress?

you get the alignment paper?

owen

The paper works great, I'm still adjusted the mirrors, but I hope to have them all aligned this week.

I'm curious what you are using for eye protection. Laser light drives me crazy, I don't ususally like to be in the same room with a laser. I have a class 2 laser that is eye safe as long as you blink enough, which doesn't impress me as being particularly safe. My eyes give me enough problems as it is. Yes I know I'm a wimp. I've seen what looked like yellow plexiglass boxes around class 4 lasers, and I wonder where you could get material like that.

I use safety goggles made for blocking indirect IR. http://barrieronline.com/laser/index.php

:cool: I wonder how these would work out? ($35 OR SO?)
Supposedly, they are made for Excimer/CO2 only....wonder if that is
what saves some $$$. One could quickly do a test to find out without exposing your self.

http://www.elvex.com/economy-laser-spectacles.htm

Marc and boyz

Well today I got almost all the electrical connection hooked up and set-up and ran a test program threw Mach 3 a side from some learning curves with Mach the mechanics work Very well.

Mirrors-

I'm using all gold mirrors which I got off ebay, and mounted them on adj optic mounts, which through much trial and error discovered this was the only way to get the beams to hit the right spot. I also found after much searching the right mirror that I need to combine the IR and the red beam together, that being a beam combiner. I found this over seas and more than 1/2 what I could have gotten it for in the states. I have gone through weeks of fighting with alignment and that was all made simple once I got this mirror. It's far to much for me explain.

Software
Mach 3 is my biggest challenge, I need to use Mach to turn on the laser and regulate the power turn on/off my water pump, red beam and a few other things. I have downloaded and printed the manual so I hope I will find what I'm looking for. I will post pics and videos very soon, I just need to get a few more items straighted out.

Software
Mach 3 is my biggest challenge, I need to use Mach to turn on the laser and regulate the power turn on/off my water pump, red beam and a few other things. I have downloaded and printed the manual so I hope I will find what I'm looking for. I will post pics and videos very soon, I just need to get a few more items straighted out.


I use the Rutex relay board. This allows 4 items to be turned on and off via Mach2/3
I guess it wouldnt take much to either make your own relay board or just buy one. I can see you will definately need to turn your laser on and off during rapids and once the cut is finished.

EDIT: The relay board http://www.rutex.com/home/r990io.htm
The mother board if you think it appropiate http://www.rutex.com/home/R990mb.htm

__________________

I'm using the CNC4PC break-out board, relay board and power supply. I have a DC relay board on the way for controlling the DC items I'll be using as well.

BTW I was able to get the machine to run over 300 IPM, it's very fast, using Steppers from HobbyCNC and a Xylotec board, the Xylotec really needs a all windings off though.

I'm using a piece of 1/2" honeycomb alum that I got for 150.00 from Plascore and they cut it to size, very good place to deal with.

I'm using the CNC4PC break-out board, relay board and power supply. I have a DC relay board on the way for controlling the DC items I'll be using as well.

It doesnt sound like it but if you want to get into doing the electronics yourself I'd suggest looking into using AVR programmable chips. These devices let you interpret signals like highs and lows coming from the parallel port to control devices like LEDs, relays, buzzers and most of the gizmos that you typically encounter in CNC. The nice this about them is that if you need to have a higher level of logic, other than just turning stuff on, its a good way to go. For example, if you have to "check that the pump is working before turning the laser on" this type of thing is easy (-ish, depending on your electronics skills).

owen

That's a great Idea. BTW I installed the beam combiner and noticed that it takes more power to produce a result on the paper, the mirror is suppose to have a 99.9% transmittance. What happens is I get a ring on the paper before I get a black dot, very weird compared to what I was getting with-out it before. I also looks like I made need to increase my focal length because of the shape of my cone in the cutting head I made, I think the IR will hit the sides.

Hm. I dont know off hand what would produce that (besides a non-creative suggestion like "hey you must have bumped something".)

There's a good chance that formation of the ring does not mean that the addition of the new mirror has reduced the total amount of beam coming down the optics chain. The problem that you're up against which I have found maddening is how hard it is to get a proper measure of power. The method you're using of looking at the spot versus ring may not be enough information about transmission loss. It could be that its changing the focus in some way, but the total trasmittance is still the same.

To measure power, I have a lollipop style power measuring device. I attached a picture of one in action. These things are ridiculously crude, its a block of carbon attached to a turkey thermometer.

No kidding sometimes I point the beam at a brick and look at differences in the amount the brick glows.

Sorry not to be of more help.

o.

Well my laser is FINALLY CUTTING! After much trial and error in finding the right mirror for use with my beam combiner and trying to get all the mirror aligned, I have finally done it. I was using a 1.5 FL lens to which I swapped that out for a 2.5 and have to re-machine the lens holder. I cut a plane out and it's so perfect it's scary. The mechanics are working flawlessly. Right now it's just a learning curve to get SheetCam and Mach to do what I want them too.

One thing I need to do as was described above it to see what the power out-put is for a give MA setting. I almost have to use full MA to cut 1/8" ply. The amount of smoke is the next problem I face, even though I'm using a 3/4"hp blower sucking from the bottom that is not enough. I'm going to build a "case" from 80/20 to enclose the machine and vent from the top, that should work much better. I will have pics up and a video soon.

I dont know for sure, but my intuition is that you should be able to cut 1/8th at lower than full power settings.

This thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8143

discusses the formulary for calculating beam size, depth of field, and other factors contributing to power density. if you want to go over approaches to getting expected power and stuff, just say so.

and congratulations on getting light to penetrate wood!!

owen

WOhhOO I got it working!!! With allot of patients, I got the Lens aligned and now can cut 1/4" ply and 1/2" balsa wood @ 50 IPM, I will try to up the speed tomorrow. Foam I can do 300 IPM so far. I have my 80/20 material on the way to build a enclosure to keep the fumes out of my face.

Thats so cool Paul, I must admit I am rather envious of you.
You have done a great job. I guess we are all keen to see some videos and pictures, real soon. I want to see that perfect cut plane too.
No more words from you.....just pictures :)

Yeah, where's the pictures. How about a total price for that thing, too?

paul, i have to say i'm impressed as well! this is going to be my next project! what advice would you give about purchasing the laser tube from the chinese manufacturer? how is the cooling system working? does the tube get warm or hot? total cost? thanks for the info. toby.... www.silhavyaerosports.net

Today I cut trough 1/8" delrin, clad PB board w/copper, hard maple deco wood, and a 1/4" thick lauan. I have to make a few more improvements to my optic holders, their not stiff enough, their is slight machine vibration getting to them.

Today I cut trough 1/8" delrin, clad PB board w/copper, hard maple deco wood, and a 1/4" thick lauan. I have to make a few more improvements to my optic holders, their not stiff enough, their is slight machine vibration getting to them.

I think you are making all this up. :)

Pictures, pictures, pictures.

Oh I see, you think we are on a yahoo forum.

Here are some pics
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_1363.jpg



http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_1356.jpg

Ah thats more like it.

That top picture, what sort of material is that and how long did it take to cut the end off ? How deep is the blackended bit? I mean how deep is the char. .5 mm ? or is it deeper than than?

That is 1/2" balsa cut at if I remember 15IPM.

The price..... well all in all over 3,000.00 for the machanics, 50 laser, power supply, cnc drivers, stepper motors, dust collector honeycomb top, optics and misc.

paul, i have to say i'm impressed as well! this is going to be my next project! what advice would you give about purchasing the laser tube from the chinese manufacturer? how is the cooling system working? does the tube get warm or hot? total cost? thanks for the info. toby.... www.silhavyaerosports.net


The Chinese laser and power supply works very good BUT I had to upgrade the capacitors they used as the power supply is was not made for 115 but 220. The cooling system is working perfect, as far as I can see, I will take water temps later on. I don't touch the tube so I don't know how hot it gets.

The table I got from a junk yard, but it was a perfect match for the laser frame. I designed the base to be adaptable to any table. It's really a very clean set-up. I have learned alot from this whole thing, I'm gonna have lots of fun with this thing. ONE WARNING I MUST STRESS THIS MACHINE CAN KILL YOU OR CAUSE BLINDNESS!! So if anyone is thinking about running or building one you have been warned.

That's a great Idea. BTW I installed the beam combiner and noticed that it takes more power to produce a result on the paper, the mirror is suppose to have a 99.9% transmittance. What happens is I get a ring on the paper before I get a black dot, very weird compared to what I was getting with-out it before. I also looks like I made need to increase my focal length because of the shape of my cone in the cutting head I made, I think the IR will hit the sides.

I was wrong about the above the loss of power was do to a slight miss-alignment of the focusing lens.

The pictures are cool... but where is the actuall laser mounted? can you trace a line in the picture with some sort of paint program to show where the beam bounces from?

I am assuming that it is not mounted to the gantry (unless the laser is so small as to be missed on the photo ;) )

The pictures are cool... but where is the actuall laser mounted? can you trace a line in the picture with some sort of paint program to show where the beam bounces from?

I am assuming that it is not mounted to the gantry (unless the laser is so small as to be missed on the photo ;) )

Here is a pic of the tube-

Thats very cool, Thanks!

1. does the fact the the gantry moves to and fro make the focusing any harder?

2. how far can the laser be from the focusing beem to cut?

3. can you engrave with this kind of laser

4. if so, how far can you be from the focuser to engrave.

5. sorry to be a pest! :)

Thats very cool, Thanks!

1. does the fact the the gantry moves to and fro make the focusing any harder?

2. how far can the laser be from the focusing beem to cut?

3. can you engrave with this kind of laser

4. if so, how far can you be from the focuser to engrave.

5. sorry to be a pest! :)


1- Yes it makes it very hard to adjust but their really is no choice for the given set-up.

2- I can cut 1/2" no problem any thicker the beam won't go all the way through. My FL is 2.5 inch.

3- Yes you can engrave no problem, I have not tried that yet.

4- as far as I know you just modulate the frequency of the beam not the FL of it.

5- No problem :)

Paul,

What criteria did you use choosing your drive system?
What gear ratio did you use?
Thank you,
George.

Just speed and resolution running a 1/8th step and a 7.1 ratio. Got all my gears here- https://www.sdp-si.com

Could you post a List of materials and any other info that would assist others in re-creating this masterpiece. I would love to build one for myself.

Lucien

CNCadmin:
HELLO
How many finishing size is your LASER machine? 24*48?
How many US dollar USD is the price?

My laser has a cut-able area of 28" x 60" and cost me about $2,500.00 +/- $250.00 all done up soup to nuts.

2,500 is the price which the cost sells?

(www.Emissiontechnologies.Com) is your network?

I designed and built it myself the one from Emissiontechnologies is not in the same class as mine. My laser is faster and more robust than his and half the cost.

Just wondering....... Why does the laser tube need to be glass? Couldnt it be made out of other non conductive materials? wouldn that make it more robust and easier to make?

Also, if you make the inside diameter of the tube larger, does that mean you get more power?

I designed and built it myself the one from Emissiontechnologies is not in the same class as mine. My laser is faster and more robust than his and half the cost.

I'm not a math major (anymore ;) ) but half the cost? his table is 50watts yours is 100watts isn't it? and his is selling at a wopping 11999.00 and you put your together for under 3k, thats less than half isn't it????? ;)

Not to be a PITA but 11999 lets round 12k/3k is 25% isn't it? ;)

I'm not a math major (anymore ;) ) but half the cost? his table is 50watts yours is 100watts isn't it? and his is selling at a wopping 11999.00 and you put your together for under 3k, thats less than half isn't it????? ;)


Half the cost would be 5,999.50 so mine would be more than half the cost 75%. 12,000.00 - 75% = 3,000.00.

you lost me man. I had thought your machine cost about 3k to build all total? is this wrong? (minus labor of course ;) )

Hope not because I was thinking this would be my next project! :D

Yes it cost me around 3,000.00 and I was comparing the cost to the one from emissions technology that sells for 12,000.00 and saying that my machine was half the cost which in reality is 75% LESS than the one he is selling. My head hurts....

here some up to date pictures

sweet dude! almost looks like you rebuilt the whole thing since the last pictures! :D

I will definitely be pestering you when I get ready to do this! ;)

Fair warning! :P

sweet dude! almost looks like you rebuilt the whole thing since the last pictures! :D

I will definitely be pestering you when I get ready to do this! ;)

Fair warning! :P


Not really I just redesigned the laser cutting head, that main mechanics I did not change. I added a 80/20 frame and plexi glass to help with smoke extraction. Art from Mach is help me out with getting the code right in Mach for use with lasers, all most there.... It's working so well right now and I'm learning something new, now the fun of logging what feed and power all the different material needs. The next thing I want to try is engraving.

sweet dude! almost looks like you rebuilt the whole thing since the last pictures!
Ditto.

Suddenly you have a small laser on the gantry. Where is the large laser tube that was sitting on the side? Have you changed lasers?

Paul, how fast do you get that thing cutting and moving? its looking like a pretty sweet setup.

it appears you have to set the z height manually with that nob? how high above the work do you set that?

Jon

Paul, how fast do you get that thing cutting and moving? its looking like a pretty sweet setup.

it appears you have to set the z height manually with that nob? how high above the work do you set that?

Jon


The machine will move 600 IM I depending on the material I cut a average of 200 IM. Their is no "Z" the adjustment is for adjusting the depth of field, the height is determined by the material and the thickness of what I'm cutting.

Ditto.

Suddenly you have a small laser on the gantry. Where is the large laser tube that was sitting on the side? Have you changed lasers?


That's not the laser that's the cutting head that has the focusing lens, everything else is where it was before.

I'd like to know more details about the laser... what is required to operate one.. (sorry, total novice on lasers) , I'm aware that a baffle is required to prevent burning the table, a vac supply is good to hold components and as mentioned above to collect fumes. Is it a Co2 laser and if so requires Co2 gas as well... what type of power supply is required and.. aside from E-bay.. where can you get a decent one for cutting up to 1/4 ply ?
Thanks, Craig.

I'd like to know more details about the laser... what is required to operate one.. (sorry, total novice on lasers) , I'm aware that a baffle is required to prevent burning the table, a vac supply is good to hold components and as mentioned above to collect fumes. Is it a Co2 laser and if so requires Co2 gas as well... what type of power supply is required and.. aside from E-bay.. where can you get a decent one for cutting up to 1/4 ply ?
Thanks, Craig.

No baffle, just tile that is fire prof.
Vac is for smoke extraction not for holding the parts down.
The laser tube is a seal laser no flowing gas.
The power supply must match the laser tubes requirements and is Dependant on the amount of watts the laser is.
For 1/4" aircraft ply you need a 50 to 200 watt laser. The more power the faster you can cut and the thicker material you can cut.

Hi Paul..

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm currently reviewing other parts of the forum trying to get more info on lasers.

What are the typical dimensions of a 200 W tube. Also do these tubes need a circulating water cooling source? aside from the tube itself and the power supply what else is involved and what components make up the laser system aside from CNC table etc? What is the duty cycle (life time) of one of these tubes.

I'm trying to close the gap on the learning curve so throw as much at me as you care to :-)

Thanks, Craig.

Okay, I've been watching the post for some time now and I'm wondering ir you going to be selling plans? I bought a CNC Taig mill a few months ago to help with the experimental airplane i'm building and that got me interested in building a laser cutter that could cut aluminum sheet. Are you doing plans?
thanks - great site by the way
-John

Wow Paul, I don't know how I haven't seen this thread yet! That is a thing of beauty!

Got any videos of it in action?

Okay, I've been watching the post for some time now and I'm wondering ir you going to be selling plans? I bought a CNC Taig mill a few months ago to help with the experimental airplane i'm building and that got me interested in building a laser cutter that could cut aluminum sheet. Are you doing plans?
thanks - great site by the way
-John

Cutting Aluminum with a laser requires a LOT of power.

I will get some video up soon.

I just seen the latest pictures. That thing is alsome!

Cutting Aluminum with a laser requires a LOT of power.
How much power? The thickest sheet I would need to cut would be 1/16"... perhaps up to 3/32 if I could handle the cost of the laser..
-John

How much power? The thickest sheet I would need to cut would be 1/16"... perhaps up to 3/32 if I could handle the cost of the laser..
-John

I'd guess at least 100W, but probably double that. I don't know for sure. It's harder to cut aluminum than steel with a laser.

the laser tube was hooked up back-wards and the water was being hit with 20k of voltage

Paul, What is the right end for high voltage? The instructions does not say anything about it.

Also, what type of water pump do you use?

Thank you,
George.

I will double check but BE VERY CAREFUL, hooking it up back-wards will electrify the water. Were did you get your tube, mine might be different than yours.

We got 50w laser from the same chinese guy Steve Luo. You gave us a link for this company.

Thanks,
George.

Also there is a wire connecting contact close to output hole of the laser and one of metal pipes where you connect your water pump. This wire not soldered just coiled around contact and the pipe.
Do we need it? Should it be soldered? Or we can just remove it?

Thanks,
George.

Remove that I beleve it's for static, I took mine off.

Hey paul,

How is your laser holding up? Do you use it for you business and if so how fast does it cut foam? and do you have to ventilate alot do to fumage?

wouldn't mind building one for my own hobby purposes but have to finish one of the other projects first! :D

It's holding up very well, I'm cutting foam at 300 to 500 IMP. Yes I have a dust collector for the fumes. It's used mainly for the new biz.

Hi Paul,

I have a couple of questions about your laser engraver mechanics so I don't reinvent the wheel on mine.

Did you abandon the Simplicity bearings on the longer axis for any particular reason (it looks like from the photos that you are still using them on the shorter axis...open style with maybe a support or two along the rail?)

For the long axis, it looks like you went with a piece of rectangular steel and three bearings (one on top and bottom of the steel "beam" and one pressing into the side). Did you find this to work better than the Simplicity bearings?

For the drive belts...did you just use 3/8" wide timing belt stock, and for the long axis, do you drive the gantry from both sides using a rod or something to link the two belts together? (I can only see one side in the photo).

It looks like you use XL belt and pulleys for the long axis. How did you decide what size pulley to use (looks like about a 12-16 tooth pulley) so the belts do not interfere with each other (ie, have enough space between the belts).

Hmm, ok, that was quite a few questions, but thanks if you can provide any insight.

Hi Paul,

I have a couple of questions about your laser engraver mechanics so I don't reinvent the wheel on mine.

Did you abandon the Simplicity bearings on the longer axis for any particular reason (it looks like from the photos that you are still using them on the shorter axis...open style with maybe a support or two along the rail?)

For the long axis, it looks like you went with a piece of rectangular steel and three bearings (one on top and bottom of the steel "beam" and one pressing into the side). Did you find this to work better than the Simplicity bearings?

For the drive belts...did you just use 3/8" wide timing belt stock, and for the long axis, do you drive the gantry from both sides using a rod or something to link the two belts together? (I can only see one side in the photo).

It looks like you use XL belt and pulleys for the long axis. How did you decide what size pulley to use (looks like about a 12-16 tooth pulley) so the belts do not interfere with each other (ie, have enough space between the belts).

Hmm, ok, that was quite a few questions, but thanks if you can provide any insight.

My new laser will have all Igus rails and bearing, it's a more true system, in terms of adjustment and play. The steel beam work very well, but it relies on more on adjustment which over time needs to be readjusted, and the roll is not quite as smooth as I would have liked. The size of the pulleys were based on the gearing I needed and a size that would not interfere with the mechanics. My new machine is the same as far as pullys go, BUT i'm going with the smother 80 pitch instead of the .2 pitch. This machine I running now will go up on ebay as the new one is much bigger and it's servo instead of stepper.

So Igus rails for both x and y? Is it fairly inexensive compared to say, THK rails? Is there a special source for it?

Thanks for the heads up on the 80 pitch...I will check that out.

Oh by the way, what changed your mind about the IGUS bearings?

From another thread, you wrote:

"I decided also not to use them, their is no way to eliminate free play and the cost was no cheaper then going the linear bearing route."

I have found other ways to eliminate the free play, and improve the accuracy, in the slides, and after using my laser and see now what is important to maintain the high level of accuracy, the first laser was a big learning exsperance and has worked out very well. The new laser I'm building is designed for much higher speeds and is twice the size of the current one. So the igus fit the bill.

Hmmm, and they are not *too* expensive...

1000mm rail and 1 carriage for around $100.

I assume you are talking about the W rails?

Absolutely fantastic. 1) When is it going up on e-bay? Be sure to give us notice here on the zone. thanks. :)

....maybe a 25% discount for cnczone bidders! ;)

I also found after much searching the right mirror that I need to combine the IR and the red beam together, that being a beam combiner. I found this over seas and more than 1/2 what I could have gotten it for in the states. I have gone through weeks of fighting with alignment and that was all made simple once I got this mirror. It's far to much for me explain.

2) Where did you get this mirror please?

Also, after reading this thread from start to finish now and examining your pics Im still confused about the alignment of the beam using the gold mirrors. 3) When your gantry moves how do the mirrors adjust to keep the beam aligned, do you rotate the mirrors using some sort of rod mechanism?

Picture a string on a spring (say that five times fast) when you move any part of the gantry everything is either parallel or at exactly 90 degrees. At every 90degree bend there is a mirror changing the lasers direction. as long as everthing remains in alignment the beam just gets longer or short depending on gantry distance. Like the string on a spring! No motors needed (except of course you normal gantry ones!) :D

:cheers:

Just got some of these on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180004613384

I am thinking of using them rather than ordering the igus...will be a bit cheaper actually.

Paul, where are you getting the 80 pitch belt and pulleys? Mcmaster-carr or something?

I am going to make my frame ~4 feet x 2 feet...or possibly 4 feet x 4 feet, using 8020 garagesale 1515 extrusion for practically everything (machine frame, legs, cover, etc.) Brushless AC servo motors for x and y...haven't decided if I am going to have a powered z...probably not since the idea is to keep mass low for rapid movements (and if using belt drive).

15mm

Any insight into examples of mirror's that you bought on ebay? Are they simply polished gold plates, or are they specific to bouncing laser light around? Also, are the ZnSe lens the best for C02 lasers? What does the focal lenght have to do with the lens. For example, I found one that was 1.5" in diameter with a FL of 5". Does that mean the smallest point of the beam is at 5"? Just trying to gather as much info as possible before I start my build. Thanks!

most sealed beam lasers do not require a 1.5" lens. It depends on how far the laser is from the lens, but in most cases if the laser is less than 6 feet from the focal lens you should be able to use a .75"D or 1"D lens. A 5" focal length is considered a long FL, but is better when cutting thick items. Most cutting lasers can use a 2 to 3 in lens, but it depends on the thickness of the material being cut

Hey we still don't have a new thread or pictures on this "supposed" "NEW" machine you were building paul!!!! :D

Whats up with that????

Hey we still don't have a new thread or pictures on this "supposed" "NEW" machine you were building paul!!!! :D

Whats up with that????

And Im still wondering where the gold mirrors came from? Anyone know?

I believe he got them off ebay. That's where I got mine also. Not very expensive either.

deep ground gnomes make them and they are very rare!

You have to wait for the first rain and fallow the rainbow till its end and then ask the leper to show you the way to the cave of the gnomes. But be aware the lepers can sometimes pull a fast one, and there is nothing worse than a lepercon! :D:D:D

Although I here the ebay link is a bit faster! ;)

:cheers:

deep ground gnomes make them and they are very rare!
You have to wait for the first rain and fallow the rainbow till its end and then ask the leper to show you the way to the cave of the gnomes. But be aware the lepers can sometimes pull a fast one, and there is nothing worse than a lepercon! :D:D:D
Although I here the ebay link is a bit faster! ;)
:cheers:

lol! :D Thanks for that little ditty miljnor!

no problem!

Now if we could get paul to reaply that would be sweet!

I've been busy, the one new machine has been up and running, no pics as of yet, but the second machine will be getting assemblled in a few week and I will take pics of that one.

I bought the mirros new over seas, nothing on ebay is worth buy for a production machine like what I use them for.

I am currently in process with a production machine for marking although I will be using it for cutting my hobby stuff as well.

what are your sources for the laser tubes and mirrors???

I am in the market so to speak!

paul?

anyone?


beuller? beuller?

I get them from this guy- steveluo @ mail.sc.cninfo.net

Hello all,

I am one of the many silent CNCzone users, but it is time to make my first post. I have been following this thread with some interest as I am going to have a pop at making a CNC laser cutter. Sourcing the laser and the optics is the tricky bit, especially in the UK.

I need the lot, 4 gold coated mirrors, 4 adjustable mirror mounts, 1 ZnSe focusing lens, and the tube itself, prop about 40watt. The power supply I am going to have a go at making (yes I know it potentially lethal and dangerous but isn't that the fun bit, for those interested have a look here (http://www.stevehv.4hv.org/ccps1.htm) and here (http://www.laserfaq.org/sam/laserco2.htm#co2typ4), it's only a short step between the two, easy said eh :) and failing that a neon sign transformer with some ballast should do, or I could even buy a proper one.

Anyway I digress I have emailed http://www.sintecoptronics.com/ but no reply, I have therefore given up with them. Can CNC admin tell us if Steve Lou has a web site for his laser products, or a catalogue, and if he sells the actual laser tubes or just the optics, and the sort of cost involved. From the little digging about I have done I get the impression he works for an almost goverment like import export agency. Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated, before I dive head long.

Cheers, Cam.

I can say that I got mine from Steve Luo for $1106.00 shipped. Sounds cheap but look for his service.

I have big problem with his system since the beginning (see my post http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26468).

I waited three month before got it. He sent used power supply, which is probably the cause for my problems. He refused to admit that he sent me used power supply.

When I ask him for help he sad that all documentation on power supply they have is two pages user manual (bad translation on English from Chinese).

Anyway I wish you good luck!

George.

Most interesting, this is exactly the sort of thing I wondered about and hoped wouldn't be the case with Mr Lou. How did you pay ? Am I correct in assuming he only accepts payment via, the buyer isn't covered for crap service option of bank transfer ? I think insisting on credit card payment my be wise, any problem I can set them on him.

Most interesting, this is exactly the sort of thing I wondered about and hoped wouldn't be the case with Mr Lou. How did you pay ? Am I correct in assuming he only accepts payment via, the buyer isn't covered for crap service option of bank transfer ? I think insisting on credit card payment my be wise, any problem I can set them on him.

Yep!
Bank transfer.

Well I have emailed him, I will keep you updated. I have asked for a catalogue and prices on:

1 x 40 watt sealed CO2 laser tube
4 x gold plated mirrors
4 x adjustable mirror mounts
1 x ZnSe focusing lens

I have also asked for CE certificates for the above, and if he accepts credit card payment. Should be a laugh.

khasabog should you ever chuck your questionable laser supply in the bin, would you chuck it in my bin, I would love a look at how it works.

Cam.

khasabog should you ever chuck your questionable laser supply in the bin, would you chuck it in my bin, I would love a look at how it works.

Cam.

Did not quite understand what you mean.

Should you eventually get yourself another laser psu and chuck the possibly duff one in the bin I would consider taking the duff one off your hands. Thats all.

Should you eventually get yourself another laser psu and chuck the possibly duff one in the bin I would considered taking the duff one off your hands. Thats all.

If we ever get a new power supply, we will try to fix our old one!

Sorry.

Oh well, it's no big deal, I was only after it if you considered it bin fodder. Very right to give fixing it a try, thats exactly what I would do. Please share the results thou.

Cam.

Hey paul

Where did you get that cool Aluminum honey comb for the laser table?

I know I saw it in your post but can't find it anywhere!!!

oh and how much did it cost?

what all do i need to build a talbe 6x10 ft what kind of price and were do i gwet the parts i have a laser and i have servo motors for it all i nee is to make the table hjow do i go about that and were do i get the parts thaks

It appears that everybody has a story when it comes to dealing with Chinese suppliers. Chinese are trying to supply machines at an attractive price and so support, features, and software controls suffer.

Can we get from Chinese XY tables and laser tubes but without electronics and software? If we can, it can be combined with the following and we could have a helluva system.

Take a look:

Simplest hardware controller for CO2 laser and step/dir controls for motors
I am going to show you how easy it can be to control a laser machine and how easy it is for you to build electronics.

You need:
1. PC/ windows XP or 2000 with 1 GB memory if raster operation desired or 512 MB RAM, if vector only.
2. PC needs one parallel port and one USB port
3. Your XY table, optics, laser power source, and(IMPORTANT) laser power supply that is capable of working with PWM input for laser power control.
4. If you are going to use step motors, you may use gecko or any appropriate step motor drivers for your step motors. If servos, procure servo drivers with step/dir input.
5. Cylindrical attachment, if laser work is desired on cylindrical surface.
6. Either build or buy a simple breakout board ($10 to $50)
7. You will build one simple cable from the printer port to your breakout board in your laser machine.
8. There is no need for building any front panel on your laser machine. You may want power on/off switch as well as a red or green indicator for power ON.

You can use any of the following popular applications to design your jobs:
a. AutoCAD version 14 and up
b. Corel Draw version 9 and up
c. DolphinCAD for LinkMotion
d. AcceliCAD for LinkMotion
e. Rhino 4.0
f. Illustrator
g. FlexiExpert
h. SignLab/EngraveLab
j. Gerber's ArtPath

Applications for raster work only:
a. Microsoft Word
b. BarTender from SeagullScientific
c. PhotoShop
d. Corel Paint
e. PhotoGrav to convert from gray scale to single bit raster file

LinkMotion 32 bit printer type machine driver comes with a Control Pad and it uses numeric keypad of the standard PC keyboard to control the laser machine (jogging, Home command, laser and red indicator testing, water cooling, and positive air pressure controls

Now, prepare a job in one of the above application software, select LinkMotion as the output driver in Windows, click print and send the job to your laser machine.

You will preset feedrate, power level, PWM frequency, home, and emergency switches in LinkMotion. The power level will generate PWM pulses for the specified feedrate. If the machine is running slower because of a sharp curve or a corner, the power level is modulated and kept is as a function of speed. You can calibrate your laser power output in every 5 percent increment and declare. Also, you can recalibrate every so often to maintain proper power level output.

You can control and vary power level as a function of ten different colors in the color pallete in LinkMotion applet.

About the only thing you need to depend on your application is for sorting of a job for output sequencing.

To summarize:
1. Very little new things to learn
2. Vector and raster operations
3. Continuous power control for cutting
4. High speed raster operation
5. PWM frequency control
6. Color control
7. Increase or decrease the XY speed on the fly
8. Tickle pulse to keep the CO2 in the ready state to minimize the firing time
9. Built-in cylindrical operation, all you need to do is to declare motor gear ratio

This is not a dream. It has been selling for over a year.

If any of you are interested, please, let us know. We will be more than happy to help.

You can contact me directly at
sales@solustan.com

Not a bad little idea/product but you should put it in the product announcement area and not clutter the thread up with advertisements (which is a sure way to get ejected from the forum)

Now, in retrospect, I can see how it could be viewed the way you did.

I apologize for that.

I read numerous problems of similar kinds with laser users around here and I wrote up a little explanation.

In future, I will position the information where you suggetsed.

Thanks.

no problem man.

we always like to see the pro's come around and educate us. what would really be nice is to see some video or pictures of a machine that you guys have put together and watch it work!

of course in its own thread. ;)

Miljnor, we can do something even better than that.

If anybody is interested, we can send you demo software. You can wire up your step motors and see the smooth operation in your own environment. If possible, you can connect your laser power source and can attempt actual production. All the necessary information are just a few short PDF documents.

All we need is your E-Mail address.

If you do not have high speed DSL type connection, we will ship a CD to you free of charge anywhere in the USA.

I will work with the CNCZone site owner to set up the demo software and documents on this site for an easy download.

Thanks.

I'm aware that a baffle is required to prevent burning the table, a vac supply is good to hold components and as mentioned above to collect fumes. Is it a Co2 laser and if so requires Co2 gas as well... what type of power supply is required and.. aside from E-bay.. where can you get a decent one for cutting up to 1/4 ply ?
Thanks, Craig.

I was in the market to buy a commercial (epilog, gcc, universal) laser a few years ago, and this is what I learned...

The baffle "honeycomb cutting grid" is to prevent the laser from reflecting off the surface your material is sitting on and burn/char the backside of the material. Also, this is where "Air Assist" comes into play to disapate (sp) the smoke where the laser has has just penetrated. Sometimes it's also to "blow out" the charred material so the laser can cut the rest of the way through the material - like in vector cutting situations with thick material where you have to make multiple passes.

The "vac supply" (as you put it) is primarily for exhaust of fumes. The minimal size I ever saw was 3", and typically 4", which most shop vacs are not.

What almost all of them are using is dust collectors (less the canvas bag)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94029
and vented to the outside. They are using the aluminum foil type clothes dryer ventialtion hose connected to 4" to 6" PVC pipe. The reason not to use all dryer hoses is the ridges cut down on the performance over long runs. Even 90 degree bends in the PVC pipe can reduce performance of the ventilations system.

When a demo was run for me cutting/engraving of clear extruded acrylic, it stunk. I don't me like blowing out a stick match, I mean like you just had a near miss with a skunk. Now usually it's vented to the outside (like how the toilet is vented to the roof of your house) the air will disapate it quickly enough and hope that your neighbors don't complain.

One thought I had was to use activated charcoal in a couple of 5 gal paint buckets daisy chained together as a cheap filtration system. If you have anyone than has difficulty breathing or small animals especially birds, you wouldn't want them around this.

As far as hold down goes... Just a beam of light is touching your material, so no real clamping is necessary, unless it's really light weight material where a small breeze would move it. Then vacuum hold-down would be nice and something you might want to consider during your design phase.

When it comes to cutting plywood, especially aircraft or russian plywood (1/8" thick, 5 layer stuff) it's not the wood you have to deal with as much as the resin that the plywood is made of. The resin has a higher density that the wood will ever have.

Also I had brought in some samples of exotic hardwoods I was able to get my hands on (teak and a few others I can't pronounce) and I found that the ones with the higher sap/resin turned out the lease desirbale in the finished product. It seems that the laser was charring the resin more so than cutting wood. Not a big big deal, more of an adjustment you'll need todo when working with various materials.

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned (like I really looked lol) is that a laser can cut paper/fabric like it's butter! It is TOTALLY awesome if you have someone that sew's or you are making sails for a small sailboat or stencils.

Also... you can BLEACH fabric! Yes I said bleach the ink/dye in fabric to produce whatever artwork you created! Works awesome on denim! This concept (from what I've heard) might be patented, so you've been warned.

So, if anyone feels benefitted from this post and can take pity on it's author and just happends to know where a self contained 40 to 100 Watt CO2 can be had cheaply (did I say cheap? I meant REALLY REALLY cheap!) toss the info my way.

If anyone feels like whining, complaining, ranting, etc...
Eh, send it to the North Pole, cause I don't wanna hear it! LOL

Photos of what can be done with a laser can be found here:
http://www.gccworld.com/application.php?PROD_TYPE=laser_engraver

Howdy,

I am doing the 80 W laser machine, but because the laser machine power supply hards put to trigger.

MACH how establish the laser machine work of?

Thanks

I can buy for your generation in China, laser of C02 and the power supply 80 W4600 renminbi USD 575s do not wrap to transport the expenses


my skype:lingdao

I own a shopbot. How could I fix a 80 W co2 laser into my machine.

CNCAdmin,
Those look like Bishop Wisecarver bearings, is that correct? I also wanted to let people know I work for a motion control distributor out of Denver, CO and run a cut-shop for both IPS and Futura aluminum profiles. I stock most profiles and hardware and have short lead times for the rest of the items. I would love to help anyone get their projects off the ground!

I apologize for injecting product information, I'm new to reading the posts.

Hey paul

Where did you get that cool Aluminum honey comb for the laser table?

I know I saw it in your post but can't find it anywhere!!!

oh and how much did it cost?

I got from a aerospace outfit, I have to look up the name, I will post it later.

CNCAdmin,
Those look like Bishop Wisecarver bearings, is that correct? I also wanted to let people know I work for a motion control distributor out of Denver, CO and run a cut-shop for both IPS and Futura aluminum profiles. I stock most profiles and hardware and have short lead times for the rest of the items. I would love to help anyone get their projects off the ground!


No, just skate bearing on rectangual steel rails.

he speaks!!! ;)

obviously busy, I already found a source on E-bay that sells it professionally don't know if its expensive as its only 1 of 2 sources I found.

The other source was an aircraft place and wanted 400.00 for a 4'x8' piece and the place on ebay was 37.00 dollars. So I went with the E-bay source.


You need to get out more often man! ;) :D

miljnor.....why not also post the source information....it would save us all some time....thanks.

he currently dosen't have any listings on ebay but the home sight is:

http://www.honeycommcore.com/product.html

Maybe they were loosing thier shirt on Ebay so your price may vary. I looked up my total price with shipping was 52.00 for an 4x8' sheet

Just wondering if the honeycomb comes in a compressed form and you have to pull it out to it's expanded size or whether it comes already expanded.
This would help with shipping sizes and costs.
I have just started getting all the things together for my 35 watt laser and will serialize the building on this forum in the new year. Wish me well and don't forget to add comments as you see fit.
The Neuron

you can buy it either way from that vendor. I bought mine in the compressed state.\

I just got a couple of quotes back and from an Australian company it cost $105