It was a bit scary hauling a trailer weighing 13,000lb down I5, but I made it home with my two new (to me) Mori Seiki lathes!

One is a 1980 model SL-1 with the single-line Yasnac control. This is the machine that the machine shop manager was sad to see go, because it still held tolerance and was perfect, mechanically. Unfortunately, it is reported to have a power supply problem. They decided it was too expensive to retrofit and so reluctantly decided to let it go.

The "new" one is a 1981 with the CRT Yasnac 2000 control. The electronics are good, but the turret was reported to have problems sticking on occasion.

My plan is to attempt to get both running. If the controls are difficult/expensive to fix, I'll convert to Mach3. Anyone know a good 5HP DC Motor controller?

Anyway, the two machines are squeezed into my 2-car garage, waiting for me to install a large rotary phase converter.

Who wants a car in the garage anyway!?

Here's how I got these lathes into the garage.

I've done a lot of thinking about the best way to move machinery. This time I took a new approach and rented an 8000lb reach forklift. It was $230 for the one-day rental of a Gehl 35' forklift. They delivered and took it away for just $100! Not a bad deal, considering they had to bring it on a semi truck. It weighs 22,000lbs, so too heavy for me to trailer on my own. I consider the delivery $100 well spent! The thing is huge. In one picture you can see how it dwarfs my 8000lb Hyster S80.

Funny thing is that I rented a lift truck when I already have a Hyster sitting in my driveway. But it has a leaking main mast seal. The irony is that the rented Gehl forklift blew a hydraulic steering line while we were using it and I wound up with a few gallons of hydraulic fluid on my driveway anyway.

Back to the move. It was nice having this reach forklift, because most forklifts are too tall to drive into a regular 2-car garage, my Hyster S80 included. Conventional forklifts will help you get your machine tool off the truck and _almost_ into the garage. With the mast touching the garage door trim, your mill/lathe/surface grinder is still sitting part of the way out of the garage. That leaves you wrestling the machine the rest of the way by hand.

With the reach forklift, we simply drove up to the garage and with the flick of a lever, boomed out until the lathe was 12' into the garage! Of course you better get positioned correctly by the time you boom out that far. Extended 12' out, the forklift lacked the needed power to lift the 5500lb machine back up once we dropped it.

Did I say DROPPED? A very experienced rigger that I hired recently said "Drop?? We don't say drop. We say 'placed!' "

Anyway, it was very convenient to reach all the way into the garage and just set it down where I wanted it. The reach also came in handy when I had to reach the second lathe which was sitting too far in on the trailer to reach using a regular forklift with 48" forks. And it was nice that getting the forklift back to the rental shop was someone else's problem. I simply called and told them to mark it as "off rent."

I recently picked up a twin to your 1981 also with a 2000GII controller. Did you get any documentation - manuals/wiring diagrams with yours? I'll be happy to pay for your time to scan.

My 3-jaw chuck is also missing some parts; if you ever have your's apart I would really appreciate a few pics.

If you are new to these machines, there is a lot of info on the Mori Seiki Underground Forum at http://nosala.com/phpBB2/ .

Later,
Keith

Hi Keith,

I have a stack of manuals about 300mm tall! No need to pay me for scanning... it just comes down to when I can get time to do it all. If you need anything in particular, such as a schematic, I can hunt it down and scan those pages sooner.

I don't have a 3-jaw chuck. My lathes both came equipped with 3J Collet Noses and a heap of matching collets. Any hint on where I would go for a 3-jaw chuck?

More pictures coming.. just have to get some time to sort them out.

I would appreciate anything you have for the 1981. What I need most right now is wiring schematics (for machine and controller) and ladder (logic) diagrams. I need help with the startup relay sequence - not getting any power to the power supply. This machine sat for about a year before I got it so it might be as simple as a stuck switch or ??

Might help to post a query on the Mori Underground for a chuck. Did you get any tool holders?

Thanks for your assistance,
Keith

Yes, I got an assortment of toolholders that I need to clean up and sort.

I have wiring schematics coming out my ears. Some of them are B-size prints and quite a few of them are hand-drawn! I have access to a fast scanner on Monday and will try to get some scanned.

By the way, I just discovered that my 1981 machine is an SL-1H, which I think means it has the high speed spindle option. I'm having bit of trouble figuring out what style of chuck would fit these machines. In the manual it says "A1-5," but the 3J collet chucks that I have mounted in the machine now are supposed to fit A5.

By the way, I just discovered that my 1981 machine is an SL-1H, which I think means it has the high speed spindle option. I'm having bit of trouble figuring out what style of chuck would fit these machines. In the manual it says "A1-5," but the 3J collet chucks that I have mounted in the machine now are supposed to fit A5.

We really do have twin machines - mine is also an SL-1H. And yes the "H" stands for high speed (5000 rpm - I believe). Mine just has a 5c collet chuck though. My 3-jaw is only a housing and jaws so I'll need to find or make the pieces that actually draw the jaws in/out. If I can get this thing running it will have a fixture plate for an aluminum casting mounted most of the time anyway.

"A5" is the size of the mounting taper. A1-5 has two bolt patterns - inside and outside. A2-5 has only the outside pattern. So it should stand to reason that any A5 chuck would fit our machines.

I only got one piece of documentation with my machine, but it's probably one of the most important. In the bottom of one of the cabinet doors I found the original oil-soaked parameter list complete with penciled in changes. I was thrilled to find that!

These pictures of my machine I found on Craigslist after I bought it:confused:
Turns out the original owner and the new shop owner had different ideas about who actually owned the machines left behind. A small handfull of cash took care of that in a hurry:D

Later,
Keith

This brings back some memories.

I learned to operate and program on a SL-1 with the single line control.
I absolutly loved the machine and i actualy do miss working with it.

Congratulations with youre mori's and i hope you get them running soon again.
Keep us posted how things are going.

This brings back some memories.

I learned to operate and program on a SL-1 with the single line control.
I absolutly loved the machine and i actualy do miss working with it.

Congratulations with youre mori's and i hope you get them running soon again.
Keep us posted how things are going.

Thanks! I'll do my best to keep the progress posted here.

Hey Keith,

I found a manual online for the Yaskawa spindle drivef -- the Versadrive 626MT.

http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmspindle.nsf/link2/TKUR-5EKSVU/$file/NTR0010.pdf

I'm scanning some of the other manuals tonight. My time is limited right now, so I'll post them as I have them scanned.

The spindle driver on my SL-1H is a CIMR-MT-7.5K. thanks for the link to the manual.


All I can say is thank you very much for any scanning and posting you do!

Later,
Keith

Keith,

Sent you a PM. I have some of the drawings and manuals scanned...

I have a sl-1 that I am parting out with the 2000GII control
at this point I have everything still but am working on pulling it apart.
everything worked but the spindle drive has an internal fuse blown which at this point I believe was caused by the motor. the motor is very hard to turn by hand(bearings) and badly needs brushes.
I do have a 3 jaw 6" power buck chuck with the the a1-5 mount

I have a sl-1 that I am parting out with the 2000GII control
at this point I have everything still but am working on pulling it apart.
everything worked but the spindle drive has an internal fuse blown which at this point I believe was caused by the motor. the motor is very hard to turn by hand(bearings) and badly needs brushes.
I do have a 3 jaw 6" power buck chuck with the the a1-5 mount

Sent you a PM.

Keith

Hey 70Cyclone, I also sent you a PM -- I'm interested in buying the chuck.

Hope I didn't get scooped! =)

Hey 70Cyclone, I also sent you a PM -- I'm interested in buying the chuck.

Hope I didn't get scooped! =)

Naw, I'll leave the chuck for you. You should see if the power supply will work on your single line.

Say, did you get any of the SL-1H docs scanned yet? Not that I'm in a huge rush for them. I just bought another Machine center and need to do some shop renovation to get it in.

well if kek doesn't want the chuck its all yours. I see that you must be local so I can bring it to you and possibly help get your machines running. I do have lots of working parts for them. I will give you a call.

Sounds great!

You have my mobile # in a PM I sent. Yes, I am local - just across the river in Vancouver. Look forward to chatting with you!

Hi, I am considering buying an SL-1 for a conversion to MACH3. Can you tell me if the X and Z servo motors are DC or AC control? If you could post a picture of the motor plate, that would be awesome.

Thanks,
Joel

Hi, I am considering buying an SL-1 for a conversion to MACH3. Can you tell me if the X and Z servo motors are DC or AC control? If you could post a picture of the motor plate, that would be awesome.

Thanks,
Joel

they are DC

Have you started on your conversion to Mach3 yet?

I just got my SL-1, it looks even better than I expected it too.

http://www.jhchoppers.com/photobucket/cnczone/mori/mori.jpg

In case anyone is still in need of a wiring diagram. I have one for an SL-3 w/ Yasnac 2000G single line display. Click the link to the doc file.

http://www.box.net/shared/ceznmopsg4

Hope this helps.

Have you started on your conversion to Mach3 yet?

I just got my SL-1, it looks even better than I expected it too.

That's a clean looking lathe! Do you plan to run it as-is, or to retrofit?

Since my last post, I've been too busy at work to set foot in the shop and work on my Moris. I carved out a few hours to install a 10hp rotary phase converter in the garage and start clearing space around the lathes.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get the SL-1H powered up soon - it's the one with working controls. The other one will have to wait a little longer, although the thought of being able to make chips on at least one lathe is getting me excited about doing a proper Mach retrofit!

In case anyone is still in need of a wiring diagram. I have one for an SL-3 w/ Yasnac 2000G single line display. Click the link to the doc file.

http://www.box.net/shared/ceznmopsg4

Hope this helps.

Thanks for sharing! I have this same manual and when I first saw it, I marveled that it was hand drawn!

That's a clean looking lathe! Do you plan to run it as-is, or to retrofit?

I plan to do a complete conversion to Mach3. The shop has only signal phase 220VAC so I plan to use a VFD for the main spindle and new DC servo drivers and new digital encoders.

Haven’t done anything to it yet, as we are currently doing a complete conversion on a Bridgeport VMC in our spare time.

Do you know if it is possible to do a conversion using the original spindle drive and x/z servos?

Keith

Do you know if it is possible to do a conversion using the original spindle drive

Yes, however you will need to interface Mach3 to the Spindle Drive. It is most likely a analog system (+-10VDC for the control), so you will need spindle driver board like the following (not 100% sure on that):
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=58

x/z servos? Keith
The servos are DC and the drivers are analog control. SO, the servo motors are good for a retrofit, the trick here is to get the analog drivers switched to Step/Dir (pixie P100 boards) or change the drivers to something like:

http://www.shop.cncdrive.com/index.php?productID=166

Hope this helps

JH

It's been a while, but I finally installed a rotary phase converter and ran power to the first of the two machines, the SL-1H.

Lessons learned:
1. Door switch! The machine will appear dead if the service panel door is opened.
2. If you're going to run the machine without a tailstock, the lines must be capped! My first attempt had all of the fluid pumping straight into the coolant drain!
3. Capping the hydraulic lines to the missing tailstock is a temporary measure. They are still slowly leaking fluid into my coolant drain.

It was a great thrill to see the machine come to life! Very satisfying to jog the axes around with the MPG and see the toolchanger working! I'm sure it would have been great comedy to watch my facial reactions as I fumbled my way through the controls, trying to figure everything out.

So far, everything is working except the spindle. I'm looking for suggestions, especially the obvoius kind. Some of the switch labels are worn and I am not sure what some of the switches do... it's entirely possible there is a "disable spindle" toggle I missed somewhere.

Any ideas?

What control does this machine have?

I setup and run an SL-1 w/ a Yasnac 2000G control and no CRT on a near daily basis. I may be able to give you some pointers.

What control does this machine have?

I setup and run an SL-1 w/ a Yasnac 2000G control and no CRT on a near daily basis. I may be able to give you some pointers.

The first machine is a SL-1H with Yasnac 2000G control with CRT. The second machine (which doesn't have power wired to it yet) is a SL-1A, also with a Yasnac, but with the single-line display.


I recently wired-in a rotary phase converter -- I might have the phase rotation wrong. Don't know how important that is.

Phase rotation is very important. If it is not correct, your pumps (coolant/hydraulic) will turn backward, that is, if the machines turns on at all. In my experience with my SL-1, if phase rotation is incorrect the machine can still be powered up but will be in permanent alarm mode until phase rotation is corrected.

I would say your phase rotation is correct if your able to perform tool changes and the tailstock lines are pumping out oil.

On my machine to turn the spindle on in manual mode, first the chuck needs to be clamped, make sure your MODE knob is turned to a setting that will allow manual movement (usually anything other than EDIT, MEM/AUTO, TAPE, or MDI). Then depress the spindle forward or reverse button and use the spindle speed knob to control rpm.

Another thing to try to get your spindle turning. Put the mode selector knob in MDI mode, the input M3 and S(rpm of your choice) and then push cycle start.

Keep in mind all of this may be slightly different with your 2000GII crt control. I have no experience with that particular variant. However it should be close.

Hope this helps, good luck!

A bit of advise on running these old Moris on Phase converters. Make darn sure
the taps are correctly set on the transformers in the rear cabnets.

If not, the Spindle drive can blow making the machine nearly worthless.

Spindle drives are the weak link in those machines. If your not sure
how to check the taps, have a qualified tech check them for you

Wayne
http://nosala.com/

And after you have completed the above items, press the foot petal for chuck clamp.

Yes, don't forget the foot pedal! lol

Any luck with it today?

Yes, don't forget the foot pedal! lol

Any luck with it today?

Unfortunately, I still can't get the spindle going. The more I play with the controls, the more I realize I need to read through the operator's manual. I suppose I should have expected MDI mode to be very different from Mach, which I ran on my Bridgeport Series I mill.

I'm down to three likely causes:
1. Blown spindle drive (caused by installing 3 phase power wrong)
2. Stuck button on the control panel. Some of the buttons are a bit gummy. Spindle FWD is missing the plastic cap, although I can push the plunger with a pen.
3. Operator Error (Not knowing how to turn on the chuck clamp, for instance)

If I haven't blown the spindle drive already, then switching the phases would be one way to guarantee I did. =) The manuals I have don't have any instruction about how or where to adjust the taps. I need to take a closer look at the wiring schematic.

So I have two choices:

Option A: Hope that the phases are wired correctly and work through the list of things that could cause a normally functioning spindle to not turn on.

Option B: Assume that the phases are reversed and try switching L1/L2. I see this as more of a last resort.

There's also an Option C: Tear down and retrofit.

Are you getting any alarm codes? or is the spindle just not turning on?

You can swipe a plastic button off the tailstock funcion on you control
panal if you are carfull, They just snap in

There should be a lamp with the image of a chuck on the panal
that should be lit, that tells you chuck is in clamp position
or the spindle will not turn on

also, if the turret functions manually, you have hydrolic pressure.

If you have hydrolic pressure, Your phasing should be correct.

Wayne

If you can index the turret the hydraulic pressure is ok. Backwards phase will not take out a SDU, nor make it run backwards. If the drive has a power lamp on and no alarms, you have something else interlocking it. Spindle clamp ( make sure the key switch is on od and the tube is back.) tailstock interlock (if it has one) barfeeder interface (did it have a barfeeder?) etc.

Thanks for the checklist guys! I really do appreciate your help!

Checked:
-Spindle Clamp (good - light comes on)
-Hydraulic pressure (good - turret clamps and indexes)
-Alarms cleared (yes)
-Tool changer works

Stuff that I need to check:
-Power light on drive. Is this light on the Versadrive in the control cabinet?
-Spindle clamp ( make sure the key switch is on od and the tube is back.)
-Tailstock interlock. I'm not sure how to check this.
-Barfeeder interface. Yes, it had a barfeeder, but I don't know what to check.

Wayne, thanks for the suggestion to swap buttons.. I think I can steal one off my other SL-1 for now.

I'll investigate a bit more tonight and report back. Thanks again for the helpful comments!

AAA, barfeeder. It may have a toggle switch inside the electrical cabinet for a b/f. if not, you need to find the spindle inhibit line and jumper it back. They used to use spindle inhibit if the barfeeder was not clamped in to position.

Thanks everyone for the advice so far - I took a closer look at the details inside the two electrical cabinets and noticed a few conspicuous details:

1. Two wires, labeled N3 and 190 were disconnected. Perhaps they loosened in the 160 mile journey from Seattle. Or maybe they're related to the bar feeder and were disconnected when the bar feeder was removed. I've read through the manuals and drawings thoroughly and can't see any reference to wire #190.

2. There is an external cable that was cut off flush where it exits the cabinet. It's obvious that it was not a factory wire and was added by the machine shop. Tracing it through the power cabinet and into the control cabinet, I found it terminates in a DB25 connector. My guess - this is a RS232 cable that was used for programming.

3. There are four large transformers ... and indeed they have taps for 200v, 208v, 220v, 240v! I don't know why I didn't pay attention to them before now. Currently, they're all tapped at 200v, although I've been running 240-260v into it! Obviously I want to switch this over as soon as possible. The voltage regulators are doing their jobs, but they can't last forever with that kind of abuse. =)

4. The spindle drive likely doesn't care what order the phases are hooked up. In the Versadrive manual, I read that it has "full three-phase rectification," which can only mean that it operates much like its modern VFD counterpart.

I'm going to reset the taps, hook up the N3/190 wires and give it another try. I'll report back, come sparks or success.

I worked on it again tonight and was able to switch all the taps to 240v. It's very easy - the inputs are very clearly labeled.

I also reconnected wires N3 and #190.

Still no spindle action. No sparks or fire, but no spindle either.

I also watched the spindle drive and none of the error lights are lit. The only LED lit is labeled something like "speed match." I tried using the reset button, but it didn't change anything.

To start the spindle, I'm pushing the FWD or REV buttons while in manual mode, with the chuck clamp on (tried both internal and external chucking). Using MDI is still a bit mysterious to me, although I was able to enter the M3 S1000 code by hitting the "WR" button after each. Not sure if that is the correct button. When I hit the "Cycle Start" button, the "Buffer" LED lights up, but nothing happens. Am I doing it wrong?

Another curious light on the control panel is "Label Skip." It's always lit, and I can't clear it. Does anyone know what the "Label Skip" light is telling me?

If I need to, it looks like I could replace the spindle drive with an off-the-shelf VFD. The Versadrive is commanded with a +/-10v signal and has just a handfull of error lines out, which I think are just TTL. Has anyone done this successfully?

I would still continue to troubleshoot your current drive for the moment if there
is no alarm codes present.

It still sounds like something is inhibiting the drive to operate, Could be
a bar feeder interface or just not getting the chuck clamp signal.

Something that may sound silly to some here....Try tapping the board
lightly with a plastic object on the drive board where the smaller wire terminal block is.

Can you post a picture of the spindle drive?

There are a couple of sealed relays that may be getting fussy, sometimes
giving them a little wake up call via a small tap can jump them alive

I did a drive retrofit, its not a bolt in, Plug a few wires together proposition.

Its time consuming and may cost more than the machine is worth in the long run.

Newer drives require a new encoder as opposed to old tach generator
to keep track of speed and orientation.

Otherwise, There are options to jump the interfaces that inhibit the drive to start
at the terminal block to figure out what is not giving it a go signal

Wayne
Mori Sieki Underground
http://nosala.com/phpBB2/

Thanks again for the help!

A stuck relay seems possible considering the age of the machine. After tapping the relays, still no spin. I took thorough photos of the insides of the control cabinets during lunch today and will post them later - perhaps someone will spot something that I missed.

Spindle inhibit from a barfeed interface seems very possible to me, considering the lack of warning lights. Where would I find a barfeed interface if it were present?

Alright, I have photos of both cabinets on the rear of my SL-1A. The left cabinet contains the controls (Yasnac computer, servo drives, power supply) and the right cabinet contains everything else (spindle drive, most of the relays and main disconnect).

I can identify most of what's in the cabinet, but am still at a loss to figure out where a barfeed interface would be located. Please also feel free to point out anything that looks suspicious.

Images:
1. Rear view of the lathe showing both cabinets.
2. View into the control cabinet.
3. Diagram posted on the inside of the right door in the control cabinet.
4. A db25 connector that was modified post-factory. The other end of this cable was routed up and out of the lathe and was cut when the machine was taken out of service.

Photos from inside the control cabinet continued:

1. DC Power Supply
2. Transformers (view 1)
3. Transformers (view 2)
4 . Yaskawa Servo Drives
5. Yasnac computer (front view, inside left door)
6. Yasnac computer (view from slightly above)

1-5: Various views inside the power cabinet
6. Inside the left door
7. Inside the right door

1. Front view of the Varispeed 626MT drive made by Yaskawa
2. Same front view with plastic cover removed
3. Diagram inside the Varispeed
4. 200v - 220v switch inside the Varispeed
5. View showing the Varispeed door swung open
6. View showing the Varispeed door swung open

There's also an Option C: Tear down and retrofit.

This has my vote ! Use some pixies P100s for the X and Z axis (same servos and amplifiers), a VFD for the spindle and Mach3 for the Brains ? Sell the old electronics and break even...

This has my vote ! Use some pixies P100s for the X and Z axis (same servos and amplifiers), a VFD for the spindle and Mach3 for the Brains ? Sell the old electronics and break even...

No doubt, a ground-up retrofit with Mach would be nice... and I plan to do that on the second SL-1. But for the Sl-1H, I am still hoping to get the spindle going - it's a lot cheaper and I can make parts now! =)

Looking into the pixies, I see that they are discontinued, according to a notice on at http://www.skyko.com/

Would a barfeeder interface thorugh the RS232 port? I have a closeup posted among the pictures...