This is my first post here, but I have been lurking on here reading as much as I can for a couple months now.

I need a CNC mill capable of milling aluminum, and with a 12"X movement, 6"Y movement, and 4"Z movement.

I plan on milling parts for my truck and some dirtbike parts.

Are there any off-the-shelf CNC mills for under a 2grand that can accomplish this?
If not, are there any Mills I can convert for the same cost?

Everything I have found on here has been either very small axes (X1, X2, etc), or fullsize machines.

Or am I dreaming...

Your dreaming.

Alan

Hi Steve. Welcome to the Zone.

CNC ready-to-go for less than $1000. Yes that is a nice dream. Maybe someday though.

The $1700 Taig/Gecko from DG1 is about the most capable low-cost Ready-to-go Cnc Mill. It has a 12" x 5 1/2" by 6 inch envelope. It WILL mill aluminum, just not at warp speed. You will have to add software.

http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm

If you want something ready-to-go in the 400 LB X3/X4/KX3 range, the best bang will be the $3600 Novakon NM-135. This is a highly capable mill, but you would have to add software and about $800 worth of electronics. You could convert a manual X3 mill, but that would cost you nearly as much for not nearly so much mill.

http://novakon.net/3.html

CR.

EDIT: I changed the origonal post to reflect the cost I am really talking about. When I posted it, I was rushed as I only had 3 minutes to do it between classes (I am a shop teacher).


You guys are fast... I was just coming back to change that $1000... with that price I was thinking more of a manual mill... For a CNC I guess $2k is more what I had in mind... or $1k PLUS the cost of the conversion.

i think now your starting to get in the relm of doable.

Are you willing to scrounge and work? I found an Excello 602 with a dead control for $350. There are several makes of older CNC knee mills out there with dead controls for about the same price. You gotta scrounge to find them.

I had the machine making nice parts for less than $1000 in additonal parts. Lots of time though.

Karl

What is the intended purpose of this mill? Light hobby use or heavy production?

How much of the conversion work can you do yourself? can you cut and trim the ball screws, machine and fabricate motor mounts, wire up electronics etc?

How reliable and accurate do you want the electronics to be? There are really low cost options, but it's no savings if you have to spend more money to replace them.

CR.

I am very mechanically inclined, but do not have many tools for metal working, so any mods I would have to do would mainly have to be limited to electronics.

I would say, I am not willing to experiment and attempt to build something that *should* work, if I am going to convert a standard mill to CNC, I want it to be something that has been done before and proven.

If that isn't possible, I'd rather spend a little more and get something off the shelf.

As for usage.. I would be a hobby machine, not something that will run 8hrs a day.
This is the type of stuff I am looking to make (the aluminum fork brace, and this is even a more complex design than I would cut):
http://ufocycles.com/images/Fork%20Brace/batwing%2092.jpg

So just the brace? Not the fork? The CNC Taig would be able to cut that brace.

CR.

I am very mechanically inclined, but do not have many tools for metal working, so any mods I would have to do would mainly have to be limited to electronics.

I would say, I am not willing to experiment and attempt to build something that *should* work, if I am going to convert a standard mill to CNC, I want it to be something that has been done before and proven.

If that isn't possible, I'd rather spend a little more and get something off the shelf.

As for usage.. I would be a hobby machine, not something that will run 8hrs a day.
This is the type of stuff I am looking to make (the aluminum fork brace, and this is even a more complex design than I would cut):
http://ufocycles.com/images/Fork%20Brace/batwing%2092.jpg

you could do that on the taig mentioned earlier, but it wont be particularly fast. would be ok for one off prototyping, but not for nay sort of production i dont think.

So just the brace? Not the fork? The CNC Taig would easily cut that brace.

CR.

Yeah, Just the brace. That and some brackets, handles, and other similar things.

I do like that Taig, I had read about it, but for some reason I thought it was more expensive.

So it could handle this type of stuff?:
http://www.mnpctech.3dpixelnet.com/picture_library/MidwayBillet.jpg

you could do that on the taig mentioned earlier, but it wont be particularly fast. would be ok for one off prototyping, but not for nay sort of production i dont think.

hmm.. I'm not really wanting something prototype quality. I want something that looks good and is functional. There would likely be a couple people interested in me making things like this for them.

As for the taig, that comes with everything I need to plug it into my computer and run, correct?

Yep! It's not going to just Hog it out, but it is a solid, competent little mill.

CR.

you know, the x3 could definately do that.. and possably even do a couple at a time.. depending on how you set up your fixturing..

One thing to think about, that part has 3 distinct processes... milling the top, the bottom, and then tapping the threads... just something to think about if you were gonna make a few of them..

doing the milling on the top and the bottom, has its challenges, but with the right planning, possably a fixture, and some time, it should come out really nice.

I have a buddy that lived in the cedar park area, and he was making something similar..

just remember that with most anything that your gonna do, theres gonna be a little "finishing" to do to it when it comes off the mill.. perhaps a little sanding, and or pollishing, stuff like that.

Yeah, Just the brace. That and some brackets, handles, and other similar things.

I do like that Taig, I had read about it, but for some reason I thought it was more expensive.

So it could handle this type of stuff:
http://www.mnpctech.3dpixelnet.com/picture_library/MidwayBillet.jpg

the taig normally is more expensive. that ones on special right now.

a handle like that could be done, but again, due to the depth of the piece, it would likely be an all day adventure to make one handle using 3 or 4 setups and a number of tools.

thing is, anything significantly better will cost many thousands more (new anyway). so i dont see alot of choices here. hmmm.

As for the taig, that comes with everything I need to plug it into my computer and run, correct?

Yes. Some assembly and hook up is required, but everything is there.

One thing about the Taig--It is popular. When you outgrow it you could always sell it on ebay.

CR.

hmm.. I'm not really wanting something prototype quality. I want something that looks good and is functional. There would likely be a couple people interested in me making things like this for them.

As for the taig, that comes with everything I need to plug it into my computer and run, correct?

"prototype" isnt a quality or apearance level. its more to do with profitability. if it took an 8 hour day to make one handle, that handle is now worth $500... or whatever 8x your viable rate would be.

if you needed to make alot and sell them cheaper, you really just need to get a more suitible mache like kx3 or tormach or retrofit kneemill etc etc.

if you arent going for profit, the taig will function well enough.

Thanks guys, It seems like the taig might be a winner. I certainly don't want to spend a bunch more for a larger machine, and I don't think I could build a machine for significantly less in a timely manner.

Does anyone know if the taig will run on a Mac computer? I suppose it just depends on the software, but I thought I'd ask.

'ihavenofish' mentioned that the taig is normally more expensive than it is now. Does anyone know how long this price is going to last?

Since you are mechanically inclined you can get an X3 and a driver package for well under 2K and make the mounting components yourself with the mill manually.
Cadmonkey has freely available plans.
The aluminum stock is cheap.
Ballscrews would be the biggest cost but are not absolutely necessary.
then you would have a mill capable of making the parts in minutes not hours.
Time is money even if its just a hobby.
Hoss

Since you are mechanically inclined you can get an X3 and a driver package for well under 2K and make the mounting components yourself with the mill manually.
Cadmonkey has freely available plans.
The aluminum stock is cheap.
Ballscrews would be the biggest cost but are not absolutely necessary.
then you would have a mill capable of making the parts in minutes not hours.
Time is money even if its just a hobby.
Hoss

Why would this setup be able to machine the parts soo much quicker (forgive my ignorance).



Also. I assume you guys are recomending spending the extra $150 on the taig for the Gecko controller over the deepgroove1?

Why would this setup be able to machine the parts soo much quicker (forgive my ignorance).

Also. I assume you guys are recomending spending the extra $150 on the taig for the Gecko controller over the deepgroove1?

Speed of milling depends a lot on rigidity. Rigidity is largely a factor of machine weight. The X3 weighs about 400 pounds, is a fairly large capable mill, and so can machine parts faster.

CR.

Don't buy the DG1 Taig WITHOUT the Gecko controller--Unless you like endless trouble.

CR.

Speed of milling depends a lot on rigidity. Rigidity is largely a factor of machine weight. The X3 weighs about 400 pounds, is a fairly large capable mill, and so can machine parts faster.

CR.

Interesting. What constitutes a "driver package"? Would that just mean me piecing together the steppers, controller, etc. Or is their actually a package I can buy. Then I would just have to make some parts in order to attach the steppers?

Since you are mechanically inclined you can get an X3 and a driver package for well under 2K and make the mounting components yourself with the mill manually.
Cadmonkey has freely available plans.
The aluminum stock is cheap.
Ballscrews would be the biggest cost but are not absolutely necessary.
then you would have a mill capable of making the parts in minutes not hours.
Time is money even if its just a hobby.
Hoss

These are all valid and excellent points. Of course, you could also use the Taig to make the X3 conversion parts--Just before you sell it.

CR.

Interesting. What constitutes a "driver package"? Would that just mean me piecing together the steppers, controller, etc. Or is their actually a package I can buy. Then I would just have to make some parts in order to attach the steppers?

There are myriad low cost driver packages. Some are good, some are bad. Many find that no money was saved when they had to spend to replace the first package.

Two places that are worth spending money to get good quality:

1. Ball screws.

2. Gecko electronics.

If you are going to do an X3 right now, I would estimate $600-$800 for good G203V electronics.

Within the next six months, I expect large N34 motors that are compatible with G540 to become available. THEN, Good electronics for an X3 will cost much less.

CR.

These are all valid and excellent points. Of course, you could also use the Taig to make the X3 conversion parts--Just before you sell it.

CR.

you can make those conversion parts on the x3 itself too with a little effort.


or use the taig to make the prototype bike parts, take deposits, sell taig, get/build better machine.

im sure theres an endless set of scenarios here :)
the "on sale" g540 taid is probaly the cheapest and easiest to get going though. retrofitting an x3 is a project in itself that can take weeks or months to finish. dont know if hes got that kind of time and energy to burn.

Yet another scenario, If you have good credit: LEASE the ready-to-go Novakon NM-135 for about $150 mo. Start production right away.

http://novakon.net/3.html

CR.

Yet another scenario, If you have good credit: LEASE the ready-to-go Novakon NM-135 for about $150 mo. Start production right away.

http://novakon.net/3.html

CR.

word of warning on the lease. the bank(scotia) only leases to corporations in business longer than 3 years and want credit histories and tax returns. so if its under a personal name or youre a startup business, no lease for you.

i had inquired about it early on when getting mine, and in the end decided it was too much hassle and paid cash. in fact, its probably easier and lower interest to get a personal bank credit extension if you didnt have the cash on hand and wanted to go bigger.

Bummer!

(nuts)

CR.

lol. I'm not going to lease a CNC guys.

I like the idea of better performance with the X3, but seeing as this is my first machine I know I have a LOT to learn, so maybe piecing something together is better left until I have a bit more experience with CNCs so I can really understand 1) what the heck I am talking about, and 2) what my requirements really are, and what they will become.

I'm definitely going to have to keep thinking about this one.

Just to give you an idea of the value of that DG1/Gecko machine:

You COULD buy the $1050 CNC ready Taig 2019--Has motor mounts.

RUN and buy one of the last available $225 Overstock Special G540s from Gecko.

Buy three $39 270oz motors and a $60 PSU from Keling.

Spend about $150 more on making your own motor cabling and a box to mount everything in.

Total cost: $1600. You will have saved $100. If you don't buy the G540 today, chances are it will cost $299 and your total savings for the extra hassle and labor will only be $26.

CR.

Yeah, definitely do more thinking.
Rushing into buying a taig only to turn around and sell it to get the X3 isn't very cost or time effective.
And believe it or not, you can make some brackets manually while you work on the conversion parts.
Learn by doing, cnc isn't magic, you have to know how to machine a part to be able to tell the software how to make it.
The mass of the machine has a huge stake in its rigidity and how much material it can remove at a time.
70# taig vs 400# X3.
Take a look at the comparison pics (http://www.hossmachine.info/Mill_Comparisons.html) I have (note the kids)

Nice comparisons Hoss! Here's one you missed: Sherline next to Taig.

CR.

Thanks, I'll add that one.

Steve, Post a request on the taig forum asking for realistic estimates for machining the parts you have in mind.
If the times are acceptable then you'll have your answer.

Crevice Reamer,

What kind of CNC machine are you running now?

JoeyB

Crevice Reamer,

What kind of CNC machine are you running now?

JoeyB

Hi joeyB!

I have a CNC converted Grizzly SX3. What are you running?

CR.

Thanks, I'll add that one.

Steve, Post a request on the taig forum asking for realistic estimates for machining the parts you have in mind.
If the times are acceptable then you'll have your answer.

Great advice. I just did that.

RE: Converting the X3 with my plans - All the parts for my conversion can be done on the X3, the radiuses on the Z parts are assuming you convert X and Y then use those to make the Z parts. You need a lathe to do the ballscrews or have someone like Hoss do them. The bearing block for the Z axis I did with a lathe but you can do them with the boring head if you index carefully, but if you've already successfully done the X and Y bearing pockets, the only difference in doing the Z is it's cast iron instead of aluminum, but if you wanted you could replace the bearing block with an aluminum replacement, though I'd be carefull since it supports the head, I didn't do a COSMOS calc for converting that to aluminum.

Granted the driver package (whether it's a pre-package or selection of parts) is more than the Taig, it's not a factor equal to the size increase. Somewhere I posted my complete cost for the conversion - EVERYTHING. I'll try and find that post.

EDIT Found the previous post:
Costs for mine: (prices for multiples - quan in [] are total and rounded up to nearest $ - () indicate part# )
53VDC 15A Power Supply [1] - $100
370in/oz NEMA23 Steppers [2] - $110
600in/oz NEMA34 Stepper [1] - $110
G203V [3] - $387
Heatsink [18"] - $18
Cooling fans - salvaged from old equipment - $0
Aluminum Stock (+extra for mistakes & future use, etc, local vendor) - $150
XPR screw [6'] (XPR6320R72) - $123
Nook Ballnuts [4] (SBN10325) - $136
Nook Flange [1] (FLG7570) - $31
Nook Wiper Kit [1] (WKB10407) - $33
Angular contact bearings [3pr] - $30
Other bearings - $25
Couplers [2] (9861T704) - $41 (from McMaster Carr)
Oversize balls (from ebay "toolsupply") - $12
Pulleys and timing belt - $73
BOB Optoisolator parts, limits - (from DigiKey) - $35
Other misc switches, wire, fuses, contactors, hardware, etc. - $150

Total = $1564 + time + tooling + driver enclosure + shipping + minilathe + mill

I included several part numbers. Most all of those are from the original invoices in my file - the last line item is too many receipts for between 50 cents and $25 from the local hardware stores. If I went and looked at tooling and other related stuff...I'd pass out.

Probably add 5-10% for shipping for anything you can't get locally. I originally was putting my drivers in an old PC tower but then got a honest to goodness control enclosure for free.

link to the post - `Original post on X3 conversion cost (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=464930&postcount=69)

So yes, a bit more than the Taig, but you get a strong capable benchtop machine that can handle low volume production.
/EDIT

yea, i gotta say, the x3 is nice. I started out with my first machine as an x3, bought all the parts (i did use the cnc fusion kit) and put it all together myself. I had a great time doing it, learned a lot, and now i have a very solid machine. I first thought about going with a smaller unit, but when it came down to it, i know that i push my tools, so getting something smaller, just wasnt gonna cut it in the long run. It cost me a little more, plus my time, but it was well worth it.

you really cant regret having a little extra room to work with, but you can regret not having enough.

Well, I certainly second the Kudos for a CNCed X3. I think it is probably becoming the "standard" that everything else will be measured by. It has a decent size and a lot of the right things for many uses and placements. It a solid and powerful mill--Strong enough to do good work fairly quickly in just about any material.

BUT: It DOES cost a bit more than a CNC Taig. And at 400 pounds just for the mill itself, it does not lend itself well for apartment use. Not only is that a lot of weight for a floor, but the standard gear-driven X3 is quite noisey.

CR.

that is true, its not a quiet monster right out of the box, but i'd bet with a little time, and a little work, it could be made quieter.

that is true, its not a quiet monster right out of the box, but i'd bet with a little time, and a little work, it could be made quieter.

OH YES! As the X3 gets more popular, more and more mods are being developed. And retro kits will be marketed. A belt drive conversion (Eliminating the gears) fixes the noise.

CR.

yea, i just havent seen one yet... ofcourse, if you were to do a belt conversion on the x3, you should be able to up the spindle speed and make it quieter all in one shot.

Hey Steve,

I just saw this thread. I am a Shop teacher in NC, and I also have a small machine shop business. I see you are in the market for a CNC mill. I have a couple of questions for you.

Are you teaching middle or high school? Is your class a general industrial arts class? Or are you teaching a specifics metals class?

Have you ever thought of buying a full sized used CNC Mill. I found a used Bridgeport copy CNC Knee Mill with a Centroid controller for a very good price. If there is local industry in the area they maybe willing to donate one, or the manual mill you may use to convert to CNC. Just a thought, it has worked for me. Let me know what you think.

M. Haney

Hey Steve,

I just saw this thread. I am a Shop teacher in NC, and I also have a small machine shop business. I see you are in the market for a CNC mill. I have a couple of questions for you.

Are you teaching middle or high school? Is your class a general industrial arts class? Or are you teaching a specifics metals class?

Have you ever thought of buying a full sized used CNC Mill. I found a used Bridgeport copy CNC Knee Mill with a Centroid controller for a very good price. If there is local industry in the area they maybe willing to donate one, or the manual mill you may use to convert to CNC. Just a thought, it has worked for me. Let me know what you think.

M. Haney

The Mill would be my own personal unit, not for school... but since you asked:
I teach 7th and 8th. The 7th is an intro to tech course, and the 8th is woodworking. Buying it for school wouldn't be a bad idea expect the school wouldn't go for it because we don't do any metal working. Plus, I'd rather have my own mill, as I am planning on relocating in the not-to-distant future.

I wish I were a bit older, and settled down (not a homeowner right now) because my old high school sold all their old Bridgeports, several lathes, welding equipment, furnaces, etc a few years back, when they stopped doing metal working. Unfortunately I didn't (and still don't) have a place to put all that stuff....someday....someday.

Hey. You are a teacher? Many companies give educational discounts on machinery and software. You may be able to qualify for these and that might help.

CR.

Hey. You are a teacher? Many companies give educational discounts on machinery and software. You may be able to qualify for these and that might help.

CR.

Good point. I image that would mainly be larger companies though, correct?
If I was looking at a Taig, or cnc'd X3, I don't think the companies that sell those would offer a discount, or am I wrong here?

Education Discount


Novakon is pleased to offer discounts to K-12 schools, colleges, universities, professors and students to purchase any Novakon CNC milling package at 15% off our web prices. The education discount helps institutions and students get into the exciting world of CNC at our most affordable prices. We have set aside a limited number of machines for educational purchases. Students must provide proof of enrollment.

CR.

Education Discount


Novakon is pleased to offer discounts to K-12 schools, colleges, universities, professors and students to purchase any Novakon CNC milling package at 15% off our web prices. The education discount helps institutions and students get into the exciting world of CNC at our most affordable prices. We have set aside a limited number of machines for educational purchases. Students must provide proof of enrollment.

CR.

Funny you posted that. I was going to say that I would have to buy from a company like Novakon or something.

Good to know they offer that. Although, they don't have anything I can afford at this point, even with the discount.