I put a deposit on the Novakon NM-135...I am so excited to actually have a mill to play with.

You guys that have one.....can you link me to some collets and stuff that I will need to get started?

Congratulations on purchasing a fine mill! Which one did you get? The $3.5K or the $5K?

You CAN buy regular R8 tooling, but I recommend you start collecting Quick Change tooling NOW before you invest a lot into something else. You only need an adapter R8 collet, a few same-size-shank (3/8) end mills, a drill chuck holder, and 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" end mill holders to begin with. You can always add QC collets later.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_search.php?critFast=tormach

http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS.html

CR.

I ordered the 5K mill. I also upgraded the controller.

I put a deposit on the Novakon NM-135...I am so excited to actually have a mill to play with.


Congrats !

I'm torn between the 135 & 200. I like the 6k spindle on the 135, but I also like the increased travel of the 200, but not $$.

I'm already looking at power drawbars before I even have a machine.
I need help !

Don't forget to post pics. for us that are still procrastinating.

Power drawbars??? Got links??

Here's one:

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68939

CR.

Congrats !

I'm torn between the 135 & 200. I like the 6k spindle on the 135, but I also like the increased travel of the 200, but not $$.

I'm already looking at power drawbars before I even have a machine.
I need help !

Don't forget to post pics. for us that are still procrastinating.

the 200 is a really big machine, bordering on the physical size of a haas tm1 mill. if you have room and money though, its also going to be head and shoulders better than the 135 in every way.

Do keep us informed on the Novakon NM-135. I have been looking at it myself, and doing a lot of reading and asking questions.

I make a lot of one off stuff, so really not sure the mill would be worth all invested, as I have a X2 with a ton of accessories for it, but the CNC part, and the learning curve is tempting me.

The quick change tooling would be nice, as I know on my little X2 when I have a rotary table in it, and a chuck, it is hard to get even a R-8 drill chuck out of it many times.

Only bad thing is my shop is not that big, and has a lot of large woodworking equipment in it now, and trying to figure out what would have to go.

I too am into the R/C aspect of it and like to make parts for the crawlers I have been messing around with over the Winter.

Looking forward to see what you think when it comes in.
Jeff

Power drawbars??? Got links??

Something like this one, or my own twist on it.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ory=1687114045

The Tormach TTS looks like the way to go with or without a power drawbar.

Good Luck.

The quick change tooling would be nice, as I know on my little X2 when I have a rotary table in it, and a chuck, it is hard to get even a R-8 drill chuck out of it many times....

Hi Jeff. Welcome to the Zone!

Jeff, you could add QC tooling right now to your X2. It is either an R8 or a MT3 spindle. That's just an adapter collet. The Actual Tormach QC tooling can be used on either and is transferrable forward.

It can save you a lot of hassle right now. For about $100 (A couple end mill holders and a drill chuck holder --JT number on your chuck, beat out the old arbor) you can get started.

CR.

Something like this one, or my own twist on it.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ory=1687114045

The Tormach TTS looks like the way to go with or without a power drawbar.

Good Luck.

Linky no worky....this one?

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2936&category=

Congratulations on purchasing a fine mill! Which one did you get? The $3.5K or the $5K?

You CAN buy regular R8 tooling, but I recommend you start collecting Quick Change tooling NOW before you invest a lot into something else. You only need an adapter R8 collet, a few same-size-shank (3/8) end mills, a drill chuck holder, and 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" end mill holders to begin with. You can always add QC collets later.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_search.php?critFast=tormach

http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS.html

CR.
Is this the collet I would need for the Tormach quick change tooling?

Is this the collet I would need for the Tormach quick change tooling?

This one:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2454&category=

CR.

Oops forgot the link in my post, that is the one I was referring to.

What about this?

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2604&category=

That is a very nice tool to have. It will fit right into your tormach 3/8 endmill holder. Maybe better get at least TWO 3/8 endmill holders.

CR.

You will also need some center (starter) drills and a small drillchuck to hold them. Get a JT2 drill chuck holder and chuck.

A couple of 3/4" Bellville washers under the drawbar makes manual--one wrench--tool changes a breeze. Hold the spindle with your hand, loosen the drawbar 1/2 turn, and bump wrench with heel of hand. Tool falls out into spindle hand. Click in new tool, hold it with hand, tighten drawbar 1/2 turn. Done!

CR.

Here's a 3/8" Tormach endmill holder with a 1/4" endmill, in my mill spindle. Both single and double sided endmills will fit.

CR.

Very nice info, thanks.

congrats Jerry!
put lots of pics and vids online when it arrives!!!
will follow this thread :D

Jerry, when did you order your NM-135? Kai said that ours should ship out in about two weeks and that was yesterday, 2/19.

Do you plan to use it on the stand or put it on the bench?

What Tormach tooling have you decided to go with?

Are you going to use a rotary table with it?

congrats Jerry!
put lots of pics and vids online when it arrives!!!
will follow this thread :D

Thanks Micheal, I knew you would be proud.:wave:

Jerry, when did you order your NM-135? Kai said that ours should ship out in about two weeks and that was yesterday, 2/19.

Do you plan to use it on the stand or put it on the bench?

What Tormach tooling have you decided to go with?

Are you going to use a rotary table with it?

I have placed the deposit but waiting for my financing to be done. I should pay the rest early next week.

I will be using Tormachs quick change system with my mill. It seems like a no brainer not to use it.

I have no need for a rotary table at this point but you never know about later.

I think that the rotary table will work well for our needs. Have you come up with a list of Tormach tooling that you are going to purchase?

I think that the rotary table will work well for our needs. Have you come up with a list of Tormach tooling that you are going to purchase?

Not really a list at this point, just a few odds and ends to get started. I am a complete noob to these machines so I will be starting with the basics and seeing what I need to purchase.

I am making final payment today....I can't wait to see this thing.

I bet that you are excited, I know I am. Kai said that ours should ship this coming week. Yay!!

I bet that you are excited, I know I am. Kai said that ours should ship this coming week. Yay!!

Yep....that is what he told me as well. It's going to be a loooooong week. :D

This is not your exact mill, but a sister KX3, and a lot of it should apply.

Perhaps reading this will help the week go faster: :)

http://www.smithy.com/uploads/SmithyCNC%20622%20Manual%202008.pdf

CR.

This is not your exact mill, but a sister KX3, and a lot of it should apply.

Perhaps reading this will help the week go faster: :)

http://www.smithy.com/uploads/SmithyCNC%20622%20Manual%202008.pdf

CR.

that manual should apply with a few minor differences. novakon has the real manuals but they are currently in chinese. they are trying to get them translated.

In THAT case then, this may be the best manual you GET for awhile. :) Better print it out.

There may be some differences though--Especially in spindle motor and travel specs.

CR.

Ugh......I just got back from the bank and they were having computer problems so I couldn't wire the money. I guess it will be tomorrow before I can get it done now.:(

I bet that you are excited, I know I am. Kai said that ours should ship this coming week. Yay!!

Khai said mine will ship Tuesday or Wednesday. :banana::banana::banana::banana:

Apparently we are getting the first batch of the updated 135's per Khai. The shop is all ready for its new member of the family and I can't wait!
Fourwheeler, how do you plan on using the mill? What are you going to make.

Apparently we are getting the first batch of the updated 135's per Khai. The shop is all ready for its new member of the family and I can't wait!
Fourwheeler, how do you plan on using the mill? What are you going to make.
I will be making parts for RC cars and some other assorted things.

My "shop" is not done yet, I am enclosing the back patio area of my house for the mill and have been working on it the past 2 weekends, it is coming along but will only be roughed in when the mill arrives.

I received a tentative delivery date of March 9th. It is going to be a long weekend.:(

I received a tentative delivery date of March 9th. It is going to be a long weekend.:(

yes, but a fun monday! :)

yes, but a fun monday! :)

Yup!!:)

Just found this thread
A lot of info, i just installed my novakon nm 135 revision 2 ,i got it with a cd 100 controller and a 4 th axis . I also bought a tool kit from little machine shop (very well made and worth the investment)

Now i only have to fiqure how to plug every thing together to make it work .To date i have had good support from Khai Uong at Novakon. can't wait to see it working.

Marcel Beaudry

Marcel,
- What specific problems have you come across with setting up your 135 v2?
- How was the documentation that came with the unit? Does it cover setup and operation in understandable English?
-What is your impression with the CD100 controller? Did you get just the controller or the controller/comp package?

I also have a 135v2 on the way and everyone at Novakon has been great!
I look forward to your replies to these questions.

Hello Blane

For the moment i have not plugged the machine or the computer .The documents to plug it are not clear to me, having no backround in electronics. I wish it could be simple diagrams with the name of the components and where it goes in . Have you looked at the comptrollers and all those plugs.

Plugging a dvd is child play.

I have asked Mr Khai Uong for a more pictural guide to plugging everything, will wait till monday for any reply.

As for document for the machine there does not appear to be any, it is a lack that will have to be remedied .

No part list either.

No how to care for your machine .

I had an emco 5 that had all the info i needed to repair and take care of it.

like i said before documentation is sadly lacking (a cnc could be potentialy be hasardous to your health and fingers)


Marcel Beaudry

Hello Blane

For the moment i have not plugged the machine or the computer .The documents to plug it are not clear to me, having no backround in electronics. I wish it could be simple diagrams with the name of the components and where it goes in . Have you looked at the comptrollers and all those plugs.

Plugging a dvd is child play.

I have asked Mr Khai Uong for a more pictural guide to plugging everything, will wait till monday for any reply.

Marcel Beaudry

you have the mill.. and a cd100 with no pc inside i assume?

where are you stumped? connecting the mill to the cd100, or the cd100 to the pc? or both?

if im not mistaken, the cd100 to and external pc needs a simple paralell cable and nothing else.

to go from the machine to the cd100 there should be i think 2 cables which are "self evident" in how thet connect at the machine end. at the cd100 end, it should be the same.. there should only be 2 connectors (db25 and db9) and they should connect at the lower section of the machine. (im lookng at the photos on the website and see 2 blue connectors).

if you are trying to put a pc inside the cd100... i think it still connects with just the paralell cable, but im not 100% sure.

from there you need to set up the software, which is basically mach3, and the special novakon xml config file.


if its something more complex than that, im sure khai will get you fixed up.

:)


i think novakon is in the process of translating the manuals from chinese. in the meantime, the smithy 622 manual (smithycnc.com) should be nearly identical as far as electrical connections goes.

Have you tried the USB stick that came with your unit? Khai told me the owners manual was on the stick, it might help you out some.

Smithy 622 manual:

http://www.smithy.com/uploads/SmithyCNC%20622%20Manual%202008.pdf

CR.

Hello Again

the pc is inside

the machine seems to be well made i have found no slack in all the ways

the manuel link is as good as a manual should be

i have 3 power cords and only 2 places to put them

if i make a program and load on a memory stick can i put on the comptroller

some of the connector are self evident some are not i will not put the power on it till i kow for sure where everyting goes

i will call Mr uong moday to be sure.

thank you all for the quick reply

If the back of your machine looks like this:

The four plugs on the back of your machine are all different sizes. ONLY the correct plug can be applied to each. You CANNOT hook up these cables incorrectly.

CR.

Hello

No the back is not the same there is 5 plugs on the back , three plugs i know about they could go only one way and they are plugged .

there are two white plug with two round hole inside that i have no connector for and only one plug on the comptroller that matches

Marcel

Hello

No the back is not the same there is 5 plugs on the back , three plugs i know about they could go only one way and they are plugged .

there are two white plug with two round hole inside that i have no connector for and only one plug on the comptroller that matches

Marcel

can you take a photo? theres usually only 4 connectors - only 3 of which are used with the controller. 1 is for motors, 1 is for spindle drive, 1 for limits. the 4th is a power relay thats not used.

id have no ide what the 5th is.

I received my NM-135 on Friday.
And I can agree that Khai is very customer friendly and responsive to questions and concerns. If nothing else, this single fact puts Novakon "Above and beyond" the closest competition. I believe communications is a very important process in helping a prospective customer who is making a final purchase decision. Face it. Your gonna drop a pile of hard earned cash, you at least want a vendor who will take the time and support you before the sale. Hat's off to Khai. He will go the extra mile when you need him to.

I haven't had a chance yet to actually do anything more than remove the crate and open the electrical panels. Mine did not come with a manual either. I asked for one before I ordered the machine, Khai kindly gave me a copy of their draft. But it's just a draft. So there is alot of missing information, like the electrical layout. This is rather important. I opted to not go with their controller and bought Geckodrive G203V's. So I will be slowly and carefully checking and double checking each step of my electrical hookup process.

I'm using the MaxStepper from www.Kellyware.com and Kcam to drive my mill. I have used KCAM and the MaxStepper now for over a year and 1/2. Nothing but good things to say on Kelly's behalf. If you haven't checked them out yet, your living in a box. Kelly has a great product. Easy to use and he listens to his paying customer base.

The MaxStepper will output a PWM signal for the spindle control. But I haven't gotten any data on the NM-135 pin outs for the spindle speed controller yet. I want to make absolutely sure I have everything setup and connected properly. The steppers and limit switches are a walk in the park for me. Thanks to "Crevice Reamer" for reminding us that the Smithy 622 is very similar.

All in all it looks like a well built mill. Heavy, the X and Z steppers are tucked inside the base and column. Out of harms way. Novakon included all cables and even the connector receptacles to mount into my electronics cabinet to match their plugs. A very nice extra touch in my book.

So far I'm very pleased with my investment.

I'll answer any questions if I can to help other NM-135 owners and those looking at purchasing Novakon products. I'm no expert but I believe in sharing information.

I received my NM-135 on Friday.
And I can agree that Khai is very customer friendly and responsive to questions and concerns. If nothing else, this single fact puts Novakon "Above and beyond" the closest competition. I believe communications is a very important process in helping a prospective customer who is making a final purchase decision. Face it. Your gonna drop a pile of hard earned cash, you at least want a vendor who will take the time and support you before the sale. Hat's off to Khai. He will go the extra mile when you need him to.

I haven't had a chance yet to actually do anything more than remove the crate and open the electrical panels. Mine did not come with a manual either. I asked for one before I ordered the machine, Khai kindly gave me a copy of their draft. But it's just a draft. So there is alot of missing information, like the electrical layout. This is rather important. I opted to not go with their controller and bought Geckodrive G203V's. So I will be slowly and carefully checking and double checking each step of my electrical hookup process.

I'm using the MaxStepper from www.Kellyware.com and Kcam to drive my mill. I have used KCAM and the MaxStepper now for over a year and 1/2. Nothing but good things to say on Kelly's behalf. If you haven't checked them out yet, your living in a box. Kelly has a great product. Easy to use and he listens to his paying customer base.

The MaxStepper will output a PWM signal for the spindle control. But I haven't gotten any data on the NM-135 pin outs for the spindle speed controller yet. I want to make absolutely sure I have everything setup and connected properly. The steppers and limit switches are a walk in the park for me. Thanks to "Crevice Reamer" for reminding us that the Smithy 622 is very similar.

All in all it looks like a well built mill. Heavy, the X and Z steppers are tucked inside the base and column. Out of harms way. Novakon included all cables and even the connector receptacles to mount into my electronics cabinet to match their plugs. A very nice extra touch in my book.

So far I'm very pleased with my investment.

I'll answer any questions if I can to help other NM-135 owners and those looking at purchasing Novakon products. I'm no expert but I believe in sharing information.


i have not gotton pwm to work from mach3 on my machine using a g540. the novakon mach xml file is set up as step/direction which aparently the motor vfd board takes, but i have not figured out how to make it work yet. im supposed to go to their location at some point soon t get some help, but i havent had any time yet. they had the thing working with the cd100, so it does work, just need to translate that to the g540 somehow.

Yes Mr khai Uong is a salesman par exellence, very hard to find in these times

yes he will go the extra mile .

Marcel Beaudry

There are 2 connectors on the back of the machine that are used for the controller, the large round connector has all the motor field wires and has a large D connector on the other end that plugs into the connector nearest the end of the CD100 controller. the smaller D connector on the back of the mill is for the limits, spindle on/off/speed, and the coolant pump relay and it has a small D connector on the other end that plugs into the serial port connector on the CD100. The other small round connector on the back of the mill is for the rotary table. The white connectors on the back of the mill appear to be limit switch connectors for the 4th axis if you wanted them for some reason. The computer should plug into the large D connector that is above the motor connector on the CD100, if you have the PC inside the controller there should be a short parallel port cable that connects from the D connector that is at the middle of the controller box to the one that's above the motor cable connector. If you have the other controller box disregard all the above info.

That wiring diagram that is provided should only be used as a guideline for internal wiring because there aren't actually that many connectors used to connect this mill to the controller. I had to do some troubleshooting on my mill when I received it and learned a lot, I also had to figure out how to wire up my sherline rotary table to the small round connector on the back of the mill.

hello again

Mr Khai Uong came trough again he sent me pictures and plugged it in 3 minutes.

Marcel Beaudry

hello again

Mr Khai Uong came trough again he sent me pictures and plugged it in 3 minutes.

Marcel Beaudry

Now that is good news and a testament to the customer service that Khai is willing to give.

i have not gotton pwm to work from mach3 on my machine using a g540. the novakon mach xml file is set up as step/direction which aparently the motor vfd board takes, but i have not figured out how to make it work yet. im supposed to go to their location at some point soon t get some help, but i havent had any time yet. they had the thing working with the cd100, so it does work, just need to translate that to the g540 somehow.

Fish,
I was going to use the G540. But after talking to Khai ( he sent me a pic of the N34 stepper ) I realized that the NM-135 uses a stepper motor rated at 5.5 amps. And the G540 is not rated for that motor. Quoting from G540 manual. "Choose a motor that has a rated current of 3.5A or less." Now I do realize your not going to harm the Mill steppers using the G540 because it will only put out the 3.5 amps. I guess I'm wondering what problems could arise if you take a hefty cut and load your G540 beyond the 3.5 amp limit?

Also, in one of my E-mails from Khai he said "The electrical interface on our NM-135 Rev. 2.0 is actually 5v PWM, not 0-10 DC."
The MaxStepper provides 5v PWM. At this point everthing is relative untill I actually get a chance to connect up the beast and make some noise.

Side note: On saturday night: 11:30pm CST and I got e-mail from Khai. It's an electrical pin out sheet. In Excel format. If anyone needs a copy, PM me. He did say that "Only difference is Rev 2 machines have PWM electrical interface."

Moving forward with the fantastic support at Novakon.

i have not gotton pwm to work from mach3 on my machine using a g540. the novakon mach xml file is set up as step/direction which aparently the motor vfd board takes, but i have not figured out how to make it work yet. im supposed to go to their location at some point soon t get some help, but i havent had any time yet. they had the thing working with the cd100, so it does work, just need to translate that to the g540 somehow.

I don't know about the KX1, but the KX3 uses a special analog board to manage speed control. It plugs right into the motor control board.

CR.

Fish,
I was going to use the G540. But after talking to Khai ( he sent me a pic of the N34 stepper ) I realized that the NM-135 uses a stepper motor rated at 5.5 amps. And the G540 is not rated for that motor. Quoting from G540 manual. "Choose a motor that has a rated current of 3.5A or less." Now I do realize your not going to harm the Mill steppers using the G540 because it will only put out the 3.5 amps. I guess I'm wondering what problems could arise if you take a hefty cut and load your G540 beyond the 3.5 amp limit?

Also, in one of my E-mails from Khai he said "The electrical interface on our NM-135 Rev. 2.0 is actually 5v PWM, not 0-10 DC."
The MaxStepper provides 5v PWM. At this point everthing is relative untill I actually get a chance to connect up the beast and make some noise.

Side note: On saturday night: 11:30pm CST and I got e-mail from Khai. It's an electrical pin out sheet. In Excel format. If anyone needs a copy, PM me. He did say that "Only difference is Rev 2 machines have PWM electrical interface."

Moving forward with the fantastic support at Novakon.

i have a 1st gen kx1 actually, not the nm135/kx3. it was novakons originial demo machine for the nm070. its since been replaced with rev2 of the design (totally different mechanically and a faster spindle).

the machine takes 0-10v and ive tested it directly with a power source and it works fine. i just cant get the g540/mach combination to make it work correctly. its not a machine issue, just a config one. just have to figure out the right settings. i may end up simply needing a spindle control board and bypassing the g540 for that.

Ok it's 10:30 AM.......where is the freight truck??

Ok it's 10:30 AM.......where is the freight truck??

haha.

stop pacing! it just makes the delivery man go for lunch.

haha.

stop pacing! it just makes the delivery man go for lunch.

Ok now I can stop.....he didn't have it. (chair)

Sorry to hear that you must be on pins and needles. I'm considering the nm-200 and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of your mill. Looking forward to a review. Info on them is a bit scarce.

Hope your wait ends soon

Tom

Sorry to hear that you must be on pins and needles. I'm considering the nm-200 and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of your mill. Looking forward to a review. Info on them is a bit scarce.

Hope your wait ends soon

Tom

Thanks man, it should be tomorrow maybe.

Wasn't it supposed to come today? What happened?

Wasn't it supposed to come today? What happened?

Yes it was, I don't know what happened.

Ok now I can stop.....he didn't have it. (chair)

My nm-135 was delayed until after the 18th. The boss is in China and doesn't want to ship mine until he personally checks out and signs off on the machine, comptroller etc.

Have been watching this thread closely and I know how disappointing these delays can be.

All I know is that, if their after service is as good as their pre-purchase service, they should be very successful.

Yep....so far communication has been excellent.

It's Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello to all

Got mine working ,was real surprised at how it worked so well .

Been a machinist for 40 years and it was a real eye opener how smooth the axes where , as for the precision c'ant complain ,real nice machine more than a hobby machine.

Marcel Beaudry


Than you again Khai real nice service you got there at NOVAKON

It's Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Yee Haw! Don't keep us hanging now. DETAILS man DETAILS and PICS! What size is the crate?

CR.

Hello to all

Got mine working ,was real surprised at how it worked so well .

Been a machinist for 40 years and it was a real eye opener how smooth the axes where , as for the precision c'ant complain ,real nice machine more than a hobby machine.

Marcel Beaudry


Than you again Khai real nice service you got there at NOVAKON

Thanks Marcel! Glad to hear all is well. Can you give us a review please?

CR.

Well Yee Haw! Don't keep us hanging now. DETAILS man DETAILS and PICS! What size is the crate?

CR.

I am at work so pics and such will have to wait, it is sitting in the back of my Silverado and the 2 main crates take up the whole bed.

Well mine came in more than one crate ,one crate for the base one crate for 4 th axis one crate for 6inch vice and another for the milling .
Everything was well packed, no damage at all.

As for the milling,it took 4 guys to move it in the basement be prepared this machine is heavy and does not turn stair corner's on it's own

I had to remove a servo to have room to maneuver

As for the machine what can i say a dream come thru ,well constructed small detail like paint overspray easely removed with a scraper , the people at NOVAKON listen to you and give you the best support you can have the sales director even replied to my emails on the week end .

The owner goes to china to have better machines for us and a better service

I predict NOVAKON will be a compagny with a bright future .

As for the tooling system i bought at the little machine shop the tormach cnc tools ,very very well made and for a truly cnc capability.

as for end mills and clamping system went to Busy Bee.

Marcel Beaudry

You got a 6inch vise from Novakon? That is my next concern, something to hold the work while milling.

Well I got it home....

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8230/dsc011908193236.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc011908193236.jpg)

Wow, looks like your going to need a couple of NFL Linemen to help with that. I better start planning on how to get mine outta the truck, on the ground, and in the house using an electric wheelchair.

-Greg

Khai sent me this today.

Have you seen the vises we carry?

They are about half the cost of the Tormach and work quite well.

4" $199 USD
6" $289 USD

* All sides flatness to 0.001" Accuracy
* Sides square to bottom to 0.0004"
* Lock down design reduces deflection up to 80%. 70 lbs.
* Recommended for use with NM-070 and NM-135 Mills

Be careful this machine is heavy do not lift by the table there are two bolt holes in the base of the machine one near the oiler the other on the other side use straps.
if you know some people with lifting equipment use ,a broken back is no fun (i know) i guess you will be carrying this thing for a little while.

Be careful this machine is heavy do not lift by the table there are two bolt holes in the base of the machine one near the oiler the other on the other side use straps.
if you know some people with lifting equipment use ,a broken back is no fun (i know) i guess you will be carrying this thing for a little while.

Yeah it will need something for lifting purposes, it is too heavy and unwieldy to pick up by hand. Some lifting straps and a chain hoist are in order for sure.

3 days later where is it now.

Marcel Beaudry

3 days later where is it now.

Marcel Beaudry

It is in the shed awaiting it's new home, I am walling in the back porch for a place to set up the mill.

Just wondering, would an engine hoist lift it high enough to get it on it's stand? I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to handle mine when it comes.

Thanks, -Greg

Just wondering, would an engine hoist lift it high enough to get it on it's stand? I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to handle mine when it comes.

Thanks, -Greg


Greg,
An Engine Hoist worked perfect for me.

I had to unbolt the mill from the shipping platform and have a buddy help wiggle the mill off onto some wood placed precisly under the base. This would allow the the legs of the hoist to stradle the mill and provide a secure vertical lift.

Remove the OneShot oiler bolts and set it on the millbed. If you can, get a length of chain with links big enough for the large black bolts in the base to pass through, that will be your best choice. The chain will form a inverted "V". Use 4 short pieces of 2x4 (turned on edge) as a spreader bar to hold the chain away from the sides of your Z Head. Don't use one and allow the chain to compress the end grain of the wood. If the single 2x4 has any flaws, the chain may split ithe 2x4 lengthwise and suprize the crap out of you. That warm feeling running down your leg will be pee. Also the load will drop a bit and you'll scratch the paint.

Hook your lift chain close to the top of the Z head which should be at bottom of it's travel for shipment. Be sure you clear the top of the mill column with the boom by 2 or 3 inches. As you lift it high enough to clear the stand you don't want the boom to interfer with the process. When you begin the lift you will find the mill ballances very well. Actually it leans forward just a tiny bit. Lift it only high enough to clear the stand.

DO NOT DO THIS ALONE. GO SLOWLY!

Notice that the coolant tray ontop of the stand is only held inplace by the 4 base bolts. It will come off. Take care in aligning the base bolts through the coolant tray and into the stand. ( I used a bit of silicone caulk (clear) around the bolt to help prevent coolant from seeping between the tray and the stand.

Another thing I did was to remove the electrical panels on the back of the machine to inspect the electronics and check to make sure the wiring was securly held in terminal blocks. (found one loose one) The only other thing I found was that my top Z limit switch had been peeled back over itself from the Z axis being lowered beyond the micro switch for shipment. (use a 10mm wrench to manually raise the Z asis) I simply coaxed it back into place and all looks good. Check your driver board in the upper bay to make sure all of it's mounting bolts and spacers are tight.

Bottom Line. Do a full inspection of every inch of the machine before you apply power. You may just save yourself some headaches.

I opted for my own electronics and am finishing building the controller this evening. Tomarrow I move the axis for the first time.

:banana:

Michael

Thanks so much for the detailed walk through on the engine hoist rigging issue. When I had my shop it was pretty cut and dry. Machine arrives, you borrow the neighbor's forklift, move some benches, set her down, plug her in, and there ya go.

Living in a mobile home (manufactured home P.C.) really complicates things. It's an extra $100.00 to do a residential delivery so I decided to have it delivered to the parking lot of the business I just sold, slide it from the lift gate on to the back of my Chevy S-10. This should be the easy part.

When I get it home things get more crazy. I'm laughing as I think about getting the mill, stand and engine hoist into the converted guest bedroom down the hall.

I'm already worn out just thinking about it.

-Greg

Living in a mobile home (manufactured home P.C.) .......... I'm laughing as I think about getting the mill, stand and engine hoist into the converted guest bedroom down the hall.-Greg

Hi Greg! Just some thoughts: THAT'S A LOT OF WEIGHT for a mobile home floor. (Probably 3/4 inch particle board atop 24 inches OC 2x6 floor joists.) How are you planning to reinforce it?

I think you have zero chance of maneuvering that huge crate through even your front door, let alone narrow hallway. Your best bet is going to be disassembly.

Once disassembled down to base, table/saddle, column and head, movement will be a lot easier. Just place base on stand and build up from there. You WILL need help to put the head back on though.

Study the parts breakdown to determine how to take it apart.

CR.

I wish I was closer bro, you know I would be their in a second to lend a hand!
cant wait to see pics :D
your going to have to film every second of cncing parts and email me the vids!

I'm not too worried about the floor issue. It's a newer home and the floors handle me and a 350 lb wheelchair that's about 700 lbs. I do plan to put a 1/2" aluminum plate under the stand to better distribute the weight.

You know, my first thought was disassembly and it will most likely be what I have to do. I just tore down my new mini lathe. It gave me an opportunity to tweak lots of stuff and expose all the "Micky Mouse" issues, so it's probably a plus all around.

Thanks for interjecting some reality.

-Greg


Hi Greg! Just some thoughts: THAT'S A LOT OF WEIGHT for a mobile home floor. (Probably 3/4 inch particle board atop 24 inches OC 2x6 floor joists.) How are you planning to reinforce it?

I think you have zero chance of maneuvering that huge crate through even your front door, let alone narrow hallway. Your best bet is going to be disassembly.

Once disassembled down to base, table/saddle, column and head, movement will be a lot easier. Just place base on stand and build up from there. You WILL need help to put the head back on though.

Study the parts breakdown to determine how to take it apart.

CR.

A TENTATIVE NM-135 DISASSEMBLY GUIDE.

I don't HAVE one of these machines, but looking at the Parts breakdown in manual:

http://www.smithy.com/uploads/SmithyCNC%20622%20Manual%202008.pdf

I can see that in many ways it is put together a lot like my SX3. Here's my best guess at disassembly procedure:

Provide plenty of towels or soft rags to lay parts onto. Replace all screws back into where they came from as you remove parts.

1. Remove two screws at top and bottom and remove column way cover. Replace screws into holes they came from.

2. Remove 2 screws from top and bottom and remove column cover. Support column cover. There are connections from this to Y and Z stepper motors in column. Carefully look for quick disconnects and disconnect them. Hopefully they are there. There are also 2 cable conduits connected to the head. Leave those attached and carefully lay column cover (With electronics junction box still attached) aside.

3. Head is probably at lowest point on column. If not, then you must support it. Loosen column gibb screws. Remove head side plates. Replace all screws where they came from. Note which way the plates go onto the column. Maybe mark them left and right with marker.

4. Slide head up and off the column. This is about 100 pounds of weight (and still attached to column cover) so best done with helpers.

5. Remove X axis motor from table. Remove ball screw retainer nut and motor mount. Loosen X axis Gibbs. Remove whatever necessary to allow turning Y lead screw to move Y axis forward enough to get at screws underneath saddle that hold X axis ball nut. This can PROBABLY be accomplished by turning motor coupling at bottom rear of column.

Remove those screws and slide table (with ball screw still attached on right side) off of saddle to the right. Ball screw has NO friction. Just tilting screw may allow ball nut to unwind itself off of screw. Take extreme care to not let ball nut come off of screw during this operation.

TIGHTLY SECURE BALL NUT FROM MOVING WITH TWIST WIRES, CABLE TIE OR EVEN DUCT TAPE! If this nut comes off end of shaft, there will be ball bearings everywhere.

6. Loosen Y axis gibbs. Remove shipping bolts from base. Lay column and base on side and remove 2 screws from Y ball screw bearing housing from underneath base. Return base to upright position. Now you should be able to slide saddle off to front, leaving ball screw extending from column. TIGHTLY SECURE BALL NUT FROM MOVING WITH TWIST WIRE, CABLE TIE OR DUCT TAPE.

7. Lay column and base back on side. Remove ball nut screws from underneath base. Return column to upright position.

8. Remove 4 bolts from bottom of column and carefully lay column on its side. There are two stepper motors still attached to it, and a ball screw sticking out of front.

Base is now free to relocate to stand. You will have to move head and column cover as a pair. Don't move column until base is bolted down to stand and ready to receive it. Reverse the procedure for reassembly.

You will have to observe and adl lib some things to above instructions--Like the location and removal method of home/limit switches and wiring. You may also have to deal with various parts of one shot lube system and plumbing. If you MUST disconnect any wires or tubes, mark their location on tape labels.

CR.

I got pictures how do i post them.

Marcel

I got pictures how do i post them.

Marcel

Hi Marcel!

1. Go down next to "Submit Reply" and click "Go Advanced"

2. Click "Manage Attachments"

3. Click "Browse"

4. Select Picture location.

5. Click on desired photo and then click "Open" Repeat browse until done or all browse windows are filled.

6. Click "Upload"

7. When upload complete, click the upload red box and submit reply.

CR.

First try

Yee HAW! Aint she a beauty now. Thanks Marcel!

CR.

That is a nice looking shop you have there.....

When i have some things on my mind i like to be able to do it . before my pension i used the machine shop to do my things . Now i have the milling to complete the shop.

Marcel

Marcel,

Wish I had your size lathe.

Yes it is just big enough to get down my stairs all the electronics are brand new works with mach 3 . As the tool changer that i modified to turn by hand .


Marcel

No a bit of joke, but this rocks

thats a virus, thanks a bunch jackass.

Has anyone disassembled the NM135 for transport? I'd have to carry it up to the 2nd floor. I called Novakon themselves, and "Joan" who answered the phone says "no"; although as the post from CreviceReamer shows, it doesn't look too difficult to dismantle.

Marcel, when I zoom into the picture of your setup, it suspiciously looks like there's a scotch on rocks on your shavings tray:
77899

I only wish.That is the oiler.


Marcel

Of those who have recieved their NM-135 mill, is there anyone aside from myself up and running yet?

Michael

Mine is . Now i have to figure out bob cad cam.

Marcel Beaudry

Not yet....but soon I hope.

Mine should ship Monday or Tuesday.

-Greg

Mine should ship Monday or Tuesday.

-Greg

Woo Hoo!!! Congrats man. :cheers:

Ok, while I'm waiting for the nm-35 to get here I have to do some advance preparation. I plan to almost completely disassemble the machine in order to get it in my little room.

I am making a stand that will better accommodate my height level and reach as I am in a wheelchair, so I won't be needing their stand or even the machine's splash tray. I plan to build an acrylic and polycarbonate enclosure that can come apart easily and take up as little space as possible. So what I'm trying to figure out is some basic dimensions of the machine itself like:

1. How wide is the table (including the stepper motor) and without it's splash guard?

2. What is the distance from the front base (casting) to the rear of the machine not including the tray it sits on.

Oh, and has anybody checked the backlash (if any) on each axis yet? The factory claims no more than .0019.

Thanks, -Greg

Okay here goes

table width 6 1/4 length 32 inch does not include travel of the table.
width of the base 16 inches does include limit switches on left side plus oiler on right side
lenght of base is 36 inches i included the plugs at the back of the machine plus 1 1/2 inch for the electical wire to bend without breaking them.
As for the backlash you will have to wait a little longer i am at that point right now, have to install my 6 inch vise

Marcel Beaudry

Marcel, that's exactly what I needed to begin drawing things up.

Yes those cables would need to be figured in.

I will factor in the x travel and ad a couple inches to be safe.

If things go well, and I don't get too distracted, I plan to do a step by step pictorial on the tear down and reassembly process also what I discover on the way.

Thanks again guys for all the help, -Greg

Marcel, in your photo I see two cables on the right side going into the base tray. Where do they go and what are their function?

Thanks, -Greg

Hello Greg

the big cable is for limit swith small one i guess is power to spindle motor

on the other side there are two more cables one for the limit switch of the other axe and one for the servo of the table .

Marcel

Is anybody actually using the splash guard? It really hampers access to the table.

Hello

this is the first that will be modified i will grind it of if the weather is good enought and open it up to remove the spring and ball retainers.

Marcel

Most regular cnc mills don't have any guards attached to the table. They usually put the whole machine in a box with a sliding front door. If you were running flood coolant with that guard on the Novakon you would have coolant everywhere. I plan on taking it off, it does look like a knuckle buster.

-Greg

Yes it is in the way of a vise or a milling plate. The stand will have to be modified to contain the coolant as it has a fitting to attach a drain hose to the table.

NOT a Novakon, but some excellent KX3 pics and video HERE:

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76646

CR.

Looked at the Syil pics and they are the best I've seen so far. I like the red trim also. Not sure if the controller on the side is a good idea though.

-Greg

Having the ability to move the controller out of harm's way is a big plus.

Well I started messing around with BobCAD, not that intuitive is it?

Well I started messing around with BobCAD, not that intuitive is it?

i dont like bobcam at all. even at the "virtually free" price in the novakon kit, i think its overpriced.

unfortunately i havent found a better option thats also cheap yet.

I am also looking at Bobcad and you're right, the most intuitive are the most expensive. My favorite is Mastercam because it has everything under the sun except a short learning curve.

When I had my shop we used Geopath, a very good 2 1/2 D cadcam. Not pretty but got the job done and is easy to learn if you know someone who already uses it.

There's always LazyCam by Mach3. I bought it for lathe work when it first went to beta and then got sidetracked. It has probably gotten better since then.

-Greg

Well having messed around with it some more last night I am not impressed, every time I went to filet the edges it would crash the program. I have messed around with Rhino and MOI before and they were easier to use. Rhino is expensive so I may just try MOI.

Link to MOI.

http://moi3d.com/

Well having messed around with it some more last night I am not impressed, every time I went to filet the edges it would crash the program. I have messed around with Rhino and MOI before and they were easier to use. Rhino is expensive so I may just try MOI.

I'm still waiting on my machine, but was planning on using Solidworks 2005 for modeling and the BobCad for Cam.

Is the Cam side of BobCad any better, or does it have issues too.

I'm still waiting on my machine, but was planning on using Solidworks 2005 for modeling and the BobCad for Cam.

Is the Cam side of BobCad any better, or does it have issues too.

The CAM side seems to be fairly stable, you would think that the V21 BobCAD would be a no issue by now. It has been around for a while and shouldn't be having issues running.

Still wondering if anyone has checked their machines for true backlash numbers. I haven't gotten mine yet, but it's something that may affect the kind of parts I can make without having to use software compensation which I understand is less that a perfect fix.

Thanks, -Greg

Hello greg

well i got bad news for you, i took a reading with a 1 2 3 block on the 3 inch side
used a mytutoyo .ooo1 dial indicator came with 3.0002 on the mach display,
and 0 on the indicator.

hope this helps

have fun with your new machine

Marcel beaudry

Marcel,

Thanks for the info. I'm not too shocked, but where I come from, a machine with ball screws meant "zero" backlash. Now days at least on smaller machines there's a different standard.

.0032 is beyond Novakon's own specs of .0018, But they are using only 1 ball nut on the screws and I don't know how many ball circuits per nut, so unless everything is perfect at assembly, one could never expect zero backlash. I guess heavy climb cutting might be a problem as the backlash grows.

Thanks Marcel, for checking that out. I really appreciate it.

-Greg

Hey guys, How do you like the controller/computer side of your machines other than the software problems you have mentioned?

-Greg

Greg

That's .0002

Marcel

Marcel,

Wow! That's not bad news! Hey I can more that live with that. I'm getting old and my brain was not expecting to see such a low number .0002. This is why I'm no longer running a machine shop.:withstupi

-Greg

Marcel,

Thanks for the info. I'm not too shocked, but where I come from, a machine with ball screws meant "zero" backlash. Now days at least on smaller machines there's a different standard.

.0032 is beyond Novakon's own specs of .0018, But they are using only 1 ball nut on the screws and I don't know how many ball circuits per nut, so unless everything is perfect at assembly, one could never expect zero backlash. I guess heavy climb cutting might be a problem as the backlash grows.

Thanks Marcel, for checking that out. I really appreciate it.

-Greg


i have the little mill, but the principle should be the same... the ball nut should not be the source of any measurable backlash i dont think. whats more likely - as was the case with mine - is the ball screw mounts and thrust bearing arent tightened up all the way.

i had .002" backlash in my y axis and like .02 in my z. tightening the screw bearings fixed it all and now i have zero backlash.

Just bought an NM135 - should be here in 2 weeks. It is the Rev2.1, which has tweaked travels of 8 x 13.25" (I can hear Rev2.0 owner's "doh!'s" echoing across the city).
Couple of questions:

1) Has anyone taken either the head or the table off? The thought of carrying 375lbs up stairs makes my back ache. Any suggestions on how to get weight off would be greatly appreciated.

2) The '135 is supplied with BobCad V21. Has anyone used V23 instead?

3) Clampdown kit: busybeetools.ca has 3/8" clampkit for $47, plus milling bits on sale too (I was looking at the 20pc titanium for $94) - anyone have experience with these?

Just bought an NM135 - should be here in 2 weeks. It is the Rev2.1, which has tweaked travels of 8 x 13.25" (I can hear Rev2.0 owner's "doh!'s" echoing across the city).
Couple of questions:


might not be too much of a doh! youd have to ask khai, what often happens is they publish a spec, then get the machine, then after some use they find that the spec can be slightly expanded without hurting function. the rev2 might have 8" travel in the y, but due to limit switch positions only officially have 7. my little mill listed at 4.3" y travel. the table however moves safely a full 5.5" and another 1" if you remove the Z way cover. on top of that, the full y movement is 8.25" lock to lock though its not really usable past the 5.5"+1" because theres not enough sadle overlap. one could mod it easily to make proper use of the 8" though nicely.

basically what im saying is with tweaking, the rev 2.0 probably has a hair more travel than advertised if you absolutely wanted it.

I hear the head weighs about 90 lbs. and takes two people to remove and replace.

I may also be doing some disassembly if I can't get it through a 36" door frame. I weight about 350 and it took 4 firemen to get me in an ambulance if that's any reference? :)

The holddown kit sounds like a good price, and unless your clamping steel down for heavy cutting, they will work fine. Otherwise, I would look at something made with U.S. steel.

I'm fussy about endmills and usually buy them one at a time. Brand names that I know work well and suit the job.

-Greg

I'm fussy about endmills and usually buy them one at a time. Brand names that I know work well and suit the job.

-Greg

Which brand are good quality? Thanks, Robert:)

Robert,

Bassett, Melin, Destiny, OSG Tap and Die, are just a few good brands. Some specialize or are famous for certain types of endmills, solid carbide for instance.

I suggest you contact a local established machine shop supply (not hardware store) and tell them just what you are going to be cutting and ask what they suggest in a name brand. Be prepared for a little sticker shock on the name brands but remember, you get what you pay for when it comes to endmills.

Some supply stores will have an alternate import brand at a lessor price and you will have to decide based on how well and how long they hold up.

I use to buy a lot of "high speed steel or cobalt" cutters and they will take more abuse than carbide, but now days, the solid micrograin carbide cutters are worth the few bucks extra and that's all I buy now days. If you keep them in their tubes they stay sharp and last longer than you would expect. The only drawback with carbide is you have to treat them as if they were made of glass. Don't drop or bump them around cause they will chip.

That's my 2 cents worth, hope it helps.

-Greg

Hello Greg

installed display and keyboard on a swing arm
now i am ready to go

Marcel

Hello Greg

installed display and keyboard on a swing arm
now i am ready to go

Marcel

nice.

question:

i had my mill on a table, much like yours, the control pc/gecko on the floor next to it... and then i cut some metal. the machine threw aluminium chips in about an 8 foot radius. i built a box for it after that cause i figured metal chips plus open electronics = bad.

just wondering if you think its safe to have the control box on the floor like that with the pc on the arm. i know ive seen alot of machines like that, but the pc's are usually industrial and sealed.

Robert,
The only drawback with carbide is you have to treat them as if they were made of glass. Don't drop or bump them around cause they will chip.



HSS bits also chip if you let them drop out of the collet and hit the iron table :(

i need to be more careful, hehe.

Marcel,

Nice addition! Make mine a little lower to the ground though:)

Yea, even a little mill can throw chips all over the place and they get into everything. I would probably move the controller off the floor and out of harms way.

I still have to remove the carpet in the room where mine is going. I guess put down some press-tiles or something.

-Greg

Hello to all

yes i will have to think of something to protect the comptroller

Marcel

I have my CD100 controller on a shelf under the bench and I think that I may install an acrylic door in the opening to keep all the chips out. Just an observation, why does the CD100 controller weigh like 50 lbs? It's way heavier than any computer tower that I have ever owned and I suppose that it is a testament to Novakons industrial quality.

Anyone else having trouble with their limit switches?

TacPyro,

My guess is, it's heavy because it has a large transformer inside.

-Greg

TacPyro,

My guess is, it's heavy because it has a large transformer inside.

-Greg

yeah, the transformer is a massive torroid. takes up most of the bottom of the box.

Ok! Got mine yesterday and my wife and I have been at it until just now. Long and interesting journey for an old couple in a trailer park. Wanna hear all the gory details up to this point?

I have pictures!

-Greg

Please do

Marcel

Please post pictures! I wanna see more details of this table.


I like the travel on the Y-axis. 8 inches, very nice. But I reckon with some tinkering, you could slap on a larger table with linear slides and woah! Have a real nice travel.


Thinking about this machine!


-Jason

Please post pictures! I wanna see more details of this table.


I like the travel on the Y-axis. 8 inches, very nice. But I reckon with some tinkering, you could slap on a larger table with linear slides and woah! Have a real nice travel.


Thinking about this machine!


-Jason

you cant add much to the Y, cause you wont have any clearance from the spindle to the column.

a longer travel to get more x travel might be doable though. probably can get 1-2 more inches without a new ball screw but its a somewhat tricky modification. not really sure how much its worth altering the machine in major structural ways.

But even still, it has nice travels for it's size.


-Jason

But even still, it has nice travels for it's size.


-Jason

the nm135 is a pretty big machine. my little machine has almost the same travel as the revision 1 nm135... but could probably come close to fitting on its table.... and a sherline can almost fit on the table of MY mill.

hehe :)

The table travels on the 135v2 are sufficient for work to be done on that size of machine IMO. If you compare it to other mills in its class it has similar, if not better travels in X and Y. Apparently Novakon is also sending out a mod kit for v2 135's that will improve home and limit switch function as well as the travel on X.

Lets see some pics of all of our Novakon mills.

Here is my little 135 situated in its corner of the shop.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn103/Karmaarma/020.jpg

Hi All,

The machine story is still a work in progress but, for right now,,,, Have any of you had trouble getting the spindle to work on setup?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Greg

Hello Greg

No just typed in m04 s6000 and it turned

Marcel

Hi All,

The machine story is still a work in progress but, for right now,,,, Have any of you had trouble getting the spindle to work on setup?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Greg

Make sure the estop switch is ON, the spindle shield is CLOSED and the daughter card is firmly seated into the motor control board.

CR.

The motor control card was loose from it's standoffs when I opened up the back. Stripped threads etc. but it seemed not to be damaged. Is there really an interlock on the spindle shield? If so where else and I will check all of those items.

Thanks, -Greg

Checked out the spindle interlock and it's working, but I think it's one of two things. This is supposed to be a pwm controlled motor but the spindle settings don't reflect that. Khai has be working with me on didderent xml files but so far no luck.

I'm not a whiz at the technical side of mach3 but I am also seeing some output and pin settings that don't make sense to me.

Aside from that, the only other thing I could do is tear into the motor controller box and check for loose connections, but is a mess in there.

-Greg

I have been e-mailing them with questions and they have been answering everything! In fact, it's really making lean on the full package 135.


-Jason

SpeedsCustom,

I would recommend getting the full controller/Computer. It's made in the states and is if very high quality hardware. All you will need is a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. If you have a wired or wireless network it would help if you want to load software etc. and or maybe a 4gig thumb drive if you don't have a network.

-Greg

Greg, I'm thinking about it! And I def think i'm going to buy the 5,000 package. It's just about when. I have all the computer stuff, in fact. I'm getting my uncles old computer/flat monitor. So i'm really happy.

I use a thumb drive to transfer files!


-Jason

My machine also had issues with the PWM system. I gave Novakon a call on a Saturday and John, the owner, helped walked me through the steps to fix the issue. Check your pin inputs for you spindle as well. Mine were reversed on M3 and M4 so the spindle was spinning in reverse. We worked that one out too.

Good job Novakon!!!:cheers:

Sounds just like the problem I'm having. In my cast the spindle just comes on full speed, and there is no speed control at all. It also just stops avter a few seconds then stars again.

-Greg

TacPyro,

If yours is working fine now, would you be so kind as to send me your .XML file? Khai and John are both out for the day and I have been trying to get this fixed for 3 days now.

Thanks, -Greg

TacPyro,

If yours is working fine now, would you be so kind as to send me your .XML file? Khai and John are both out for the day and I have been trying to get this fixed for 3 days now.

Thanks, -Greg

i have spindle speed issues on my kx1. the spindle will run full blast, but speeds lower than that are jerky.

the control on the machine is fine though, i tested with a power source. me and khai ended up thinking it might be my gecko 540 controller, but now with your issue, im curious again.

its hadnt been a huge deal to me cutting most things, but i need the control to work eventually for turning and boring.

id really like to know what it took to solve the issue for TacPyro

Greg, If you like give me a call and maybe we can work this thing out over the phone. I'll PM you with my phone number. I'll also get copy my XML to send to you.

Greg, If you like give me a call and maybe we can work this thing out over the phone. I'll PM you with my phone number. I'll also get copy my XML to send to you.

please post the rusults here if you get it going :)

Hi everyone, I'm considering one of these. Would one of you tell me please what frame size the steppers are. I think if I get one I'll consider servos for it, but only if this machine uses a standard frame size.

Jim

Pretty sure all of them have to stick with the NEMA standard motor frame sets. But I could be wrong. Anyone else know?

-Greg

Considering that I seem be a pig after truffles when it comes to ending up with the one (something) that is a different (something) from the rest of the free world... I thought I'd find out first ;)

Jim

All of the motors on the NM-135 are heavy duty Nema-34 steppers. You won't NEED servos.

CR.

Need, no; but (at the risk of kicking over an immense hill of ants, and hijacking the thread halfway to Aruba) is there a point where servos offer more performance for the money, on a machine this size? I'm thinking of a CNCBrain in the future, assuming it matures well, and I'd like to get the right parts to integrate the two, the first time.

Jim

Do you want more performance than THIS? This is with the stock motors in a sister mill to the Novakon:

YouTube - SIEG KX3 on CNC machine exhibition

CR.

Do I want more? Sure, why not? If I'm going to work literally from the floor up on this, why not invest 5 rather than spend 3? Granted, that was a, what, 3/4" endmill? I guess I'd be curious to see a video of it with a smaller (1/8" - 3/16") ball mill working on a 4-axis part on a rotab; that is where I want to go with this. My plan is pretty much to find out where the balance lies between what I can get and what it will cost; if the difference for servos and steppers isn't huge, then I'll spend the money on those rather than steppers.

Thanks for taking the time to put that up; it is nice to see what the light at the end of the tunnel looks like.

Jim

Do you want more performance than THIS? This is with the stock motors in a sister mill to the Novakon:

YouTube - SIEG KX3 on CNC machine exhibition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjAS2t9fXxs)

CR.

that is NOT stock, that is a SERVO version of the kx3.

:)

there is aparently a servo version of the machine (both the sieg and how mau), along with one with a siemens control and some other stuff. i have no idea whether novakon will bring any of these over, or have any servo version at all in the future though.

if they do do servos, i hope the go brushless for the easy maintenance factor. they always seem to cost much much more though than say a gecko brushed setup.

Food for thought. Sorry for hijacking the thread like that, but this seems to be the active thread in the section right now.

Jim

that is NOT stock, that is a SERVO version of the kx3.


Those motors mounted on the wall sure look like steppers to me!

EDIT TO ADD: WHOOPS! Just looked again. You are right! there are ENCODERS hooked to those motors.

CR.

Considering that I seem be a pig after truffles when it comes to ending up with the one (something) that is a different (something) from the rest of the free world... I thought I'd find out first ;)

Jim


The Nema 34 Steppers included with the mill are very powerfull. I find them more than sufficient.

It would seem to me that if one desires to purchase the Mill Only offering from Novakon and uses the Geckodrive G203v with decient software, a servo drive system would be "OverKill". And sure, there is some satisfaction to be gained from haveing a one-off system that you re-designed. But why bother? Unless you have loads of cash and just want to throw it around. And in this economy thats just plain silly.

Personally I'm all for having a system where performance and precision meet a very finely honed edge. And IMO you can't beat the G203v microstep driver. 12800 steps per inch of travel. Thats 12.8 steps per .001th of an inch. Match this with a solid piece of controller software and your home dude. I use KCAM from Kellyware. Under $250.00 and I'm pleased as punch. If you need more refinement then there is FlashCut. It's gonna run you ballpark $1500.00 and you still gotta supply the Stepper Controllers and powersupply.

Finally I offer this option. If your dead set on hitting that .0005 tolarence you need for the Space Shuttle project your considering. Your going to have to invest in a system that takes it's feedback directly from table travel not servo encoder. The leadscrew is subject to backlash no matter your choice of stepper or servo.

If you still feel the need to throw away good cash at a servo system thats not going to do diddly for you I'm sure there are a few fellas in here that are willing to modify their name to include the word servo.


Otherwise spend your extra cash on tooling. your gonna need that fo sure.

Signed
NM-135 Owner
Michael Servo Burton
"Cash only please"

The Nema 34 Steppers included with the mill are very powerfull. I find them more than sufficient.

... Unless you have loads of cash and just want to throw it around. And in this economy thats just plain silly.

If I'm not satisfied with the status quo, then thats my choice, and my money is the same colour as everyone elses'.


Finally I offer this option. If your dead set on hitting that .0005 tolarence you need for the Space Shuttle project your considering. Your going to have to invest in a system that takes it's feedback directly from table travel not servo encoder. The leadscrew is subject to backlash no matter your choice of stepper or servo.


I'm not going to take the shuttle remark as condescending. As for the feedback issue, I agree, and that is why I'm intrigued by the CNC Brain; it seems to be an ideal fit.


If you still feel the need to throw away good cash at a servo system thats not going to do diddly for you I'm sure there are a few fellas in here that are willing to modify their name to include the word servo.


That I do take as condescending. I appreciate your advice, particularly in light of the fact that you own one of the machines which I am considering, but please don't speak down to me.

Jim

The Nema 34 Steppers included with the mill are very powerfull. I find them more than sufficient.

It would seem to me that if one desires to purchase the Mill Only offering from Novakon and uses the Geckodrive G203v with decient software, a servo drive system would be "OverKill". And sure, there is some satisfaction to be gained from haveing a one-off system that you re-designed. But why bother? Unless you have loads of cash and just want to throw it around. And in this economy thats just plain silly.

Personally I'm all for having a system where performance and precision meet a very finely honed edge. And IMO you can't beat the G203v microstep driver. 12800 steps per inch of travel. Thats 12.8 steps per .001th of an inch. Match this with a solid piece of controller software and your home dude. I use KCAM from Kellyware. Under $250.00 and I'm pleased as punch. If you need more refinement then there is FlashCut. It's gonna run you ballpark $1500.00 and you still gotta supply the Stepper Controllers and powersupply.

Finally I offer this option. If your dead set on hitting that .0005 tolarence you need for the Space Shuttle project your considering. Your going to have to invest in a system that takes it's feedback directly from table travel not servo encoder. The leadscrew is subject to backlash no matter your choice of stepper or servo.

If you still feel the need to throw away good cash at a servo system thats not going to do diddly for you I'm sure there are a few fellas in here that are willing to modify their name to include the word servo.


Otherwise spend your extra cash on tooling. your gonna need that fo sure.

Signed
NM-135 Owner
Michael Servo Burton
"Cash only please"



mmmmmm.... no.

i think you have fully missed the entire point of using a servo system over stepper one on a machine like this.

there are 2 meaningful things when applying it to this machine. 1st is no lost steps. usually you wont have an issue with steppers, but occasionally the machine will choke, and unless you get lucky and see it stalling and kill the program, it could ruin a very valuable part. as a result, we tune down the stepper system to avoid this as much as possible.

which brings us to the second point.. dynamics. watch the video of the servo kx3 above. theres also a second video that illustrates better. acceleration on the servo version is phenomenal. easily 10 times better than the stepper machine (which isnt horrible to begin with) . this can both speed up rapids and cutting, but also make corners in parts alot cleaner because you arent jerking the machine to an abrupt stop - or worse, cutting the corner so you dont have to stop.

what servos wont do is increase absolute accuracy much (as you mentioned, the machine itself limits that), and you wont really get alot higher of a top speed because the machine again limits that.

and as for price... its your money.. but a good brush servo system is barely more expensive than steppers, and a good brushless sytem for one of these small mills is not all that bad eithe rin context of a $5000 machine.

like i said, sieg and how mau already have servo versions of this mill, and novakon will eventually sell their own.

:)

Ok look Guys,
I didn't make my post to start a war over who is right or who is wrong. And had you throughly read my post you would see that I used a few phrases that are synonymous with having a personal opinion. "It would seem to me", "Personally" and IMO.

Sorry Jim if you feel I talked down to you in a condesending manner. I'm old enough to be your father, I was just trying to offer money saving advice and you were offended. My bad. I bet your father knows the time honored saying of "A fool and his money are soon parted". And yes you are right it is your money. It makes no difference to me what you do with it. But you came into this forum looking for guidance. Being experienced with the hardware I provided my opinion. Although I may have taken a condesending tone, your reasoning seemed foolish to me. In that light I appoligize for hurting your feelings. Keep in mind that some will read this thread to learn from the mistakes of others.
So knock yourself out.

Fish, I get your point, but it's (IMO) mute. In fact your killing your own defense with the statement:"what servos wont do is increase absolute accuracy much (as you mentioned, the machine itself limits that), and you wont really get alot higher of a top speed because the machine again limits that." I would imagine you are compairing the video to your first hand experiences with MACH3 or another parallel port driven controller software. ? ? And that you have not considered other software options in the inexpensive price range that will accelerate and smooth as well as a servo system on this equipment. Additionally you say "the machine will choke". But IMO if the operator properly sets up the machine and codes his program correctly there will be no choking. This places the blame for choking squarly upon the one pushing the buttons. Also choking of a system driven by parallel ports can also be contributed by poor PC system performance, bad or improperly configured LPT port, timing issues in the PC, etc.
No hardware solution can correct for operator or setup error.

But if it's an arguement you want, I'm game. However you should be aware that I believe FACTS & FIGURES speak volumes.

I propose that contributers supporting the servo system option and anyone who believe's that the following statement is true ((Statement from Fish)"but a good brush servo system is barely more expensive than steppers, and a good brushless sytem for one of these small mills is not all that bad either in context of a $5000 machine.") should cough up some hard numbers or quotes from vendors. And lets compair these figures for our readers. After all what this forum is here for is to provide good sound advice or personal experiences inorder to help each other. Sharing of information.

Arguement without facts for the sake of arguement is best served in the MontyPython episode. "The arguement"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3HaRFBSq9k


(My Novakon NM-135 true cost outline.)

NM-135 mill only with stand and cables 3595.00
Shipping to Illinois from Canada 475.00
(3) Geckodrive G203v Stepper Drivers @ $147.00ea +Ship 455.00
(1) Kellyware KCAM w/MaxStepper +Ship 270.00
(1) 78V 600W CNC Mill / Router Power Supply +Ship 140.00
Total $4935.00

I choose my own hardware/software path for one simple reason, I find the KCAM software to perform flawlessly for my purpose. The support from Kellyware is very good and they listen to the users. Often times incorporating features in the next updates to the software. Also I claim to be no expert. And most of all I enjoy the performance of KCAM above the complexity of MACH3. The Kellyware MAXSTEPPER provides an interface between the PC and the Geckodrives. The MAXSTEPPER uses a serial interface and has a built in data buffer and is not subject to the PC's state of mind.

And ya, I'm plugging the Kellyware solution. Because it works for me and many others, often overlooked or it has gone unnoticed. It's deserving of some plugging. You plug your solution and tell us why you like it as I have mine then everyone wins. Everyone gets a bit of insight that otherwise would be missing from the decision making process.

Lighten up!
Show us your servo controller options and numbers. I have an open mind.

Michael

Ok look Guys,
I didn't make my post to start a war over who is right or who is wrong. And had you throughly read my post you would see that I used a few phrases that are synonymous with having a personal opinion. "It would seem to me", "Personally" and IMO.

Sorry Jim if you feel I talked down to you in a condesending manner. I'm old enough to be your father, I was just trying to offer money saving advice and you were offended. My bad. I bet your father knows the time honored saying of "A fool and his money are soon parted". And yes you are right it is your money. It makes no difference to me what you do with it. But you came into this forum looking for guidance. Being experienced with the hardware I provided my opinion. Although I may have taken a condesending tone, your reasoning seemed foolish to me. In that light I appoligize for hurting your feelings. Keep in mind that some will read this thread to learn from the mistakes of others.
So knock yourself out.

Fish, I get your point, but it's (IMO) mute. In fact your killing your own defense with the statement:"what servos wont do is increase absolute accuracy much (as you mentioned, the machine itself limits that), and you wont really get alot higher of a top speed because the machine again limits that." I would imagine you are compairing the video to your first hand experiences with MACH3 or another parallel port driven controller software. ? ? And that you have not considered other software options in the inexpensive price range that will accelerate and smooth as well as a servo system on this equipment. Additionally you say "the machine will choke". But IMO if the operator properly sets up the machine and codes his program correctly there will be no choking. This places the blame for choking squarly upon the one pushing the buttons. Also choking of a system driven by parallel ports can also be contributed by poor PC system performance, bad or improperly configured LPT port, timing issues in the PC, etc.
No hardware solution can correct for operator or setup error.

But if it's an arguement you want, I'm game. However you should be aware that I believe FACTS & FIGURES speak volumes.

I propose that contributers supporting the servo system option and anyone who believe's that the following statement is true ((Statement from Fish)"but a good brush servo system is barely more expensive than steppers, and a good brushless sytem for one of these small mills is not all that bad either in context of a $5000 machine.") should cough up some hard numbers or quotes from vendors. And lets compair these figures for our readers. After all what this forum is here for is to provide good sound advice or personal experiences inorder to help each other. Sharing of information.

Arguement without facts for the sake of arguement is best served in the MontyPython episode. "The arguement"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3HaRFBSq9k


(My Novakon NM-135 true cost outline.)

NM-135 mill only with stand and cables 3595.00
Shipping to Illinois from Canada 475.00
(3) Geckodrive G203v Stepper Drivers @ $147.00ea +Ship 455.00
(1) Kellyware KCAM w/MaxStepper +Ship 270.00
(1) 78V 600W CNC Mill / Router Power Supply +Ship 140.00
Total $4935.00

I choose my own hardware/software path for one simple reason, I find the KCAM software to perform flawlessly for my purpose. The support from Kellyware is very good and they listen to the users. Often times incorporating features in the next updates to the software. Also I claim to be no expert. And most of all I enjoy the performance of KCAM above the complexity of MACH3. The Kellyware MAXSTEPPER provides an interface between the PC and the Geckodrives. The MAXSTEPPER uses a serial interface and has a built in data buffer and is not subject to the PC's state of mind.

And ya, I'm plugging the Kellyware solution. Because it works for me and many others, often overlooked or it has gone unnoticed. It's deserving of some plugging. You plug your solution and tell us why you like it as I have mine then everyone wins. Everyone gets a bit of insight that otherwise would be missing from the decision making process.

Lighten up!
Show us your servo controller options and numbers. I have an open mind.

Michael

i have a servo setup for my nm-070 on the way for my nm070.

does it cost more than steppers? yes. does it have a performance advantage? yes.

my gecko g540 was $299. the machine came with steppers, so thats our base price for steppers.

to switch to servos i got parker sm232be motors ($95 each on ebay used) and amc 48v step input drives ($240 each new). both setups run from mach3 or emc2 and use the same psu, so realy the price difference is only the motors and drives at about $700. if it was a volume produced factory installed kit, it might work out to a mere $200-500 more then the factory 3 axis stepper system.

if there was no performance difference, yes, its pointless. if the machine was $1000 then yes, its a big price impact. but neither are true.

with these servos my machine will accelerate more than 5 times faster based on my math, and reach a comfy top speed of 280ipm and have almost double the peak cutting force in the x/y/z directions at common feed rates (10-60ipm).

right now stock the machine does 100ipm before stalling but accelerates so slow it rarely caps 75 ipm in uses that arent long straight lines. i could buy bigger steppers for $300 and get a small performance gain but not near as much as the servos. and to be fair, if mach3 had a non linear acceleration control on the steppers youd get a little better acdeleration on the low end, and a little speed on the top... but it wouldnt make that big a difference in practice.

on the nm135's, your price will go up a little due to needing bigger motors with more torque, but youll get the same advantages. you dont NEED to blow a ton of cash on the system. why? cause you dont need the top end. my parker motors go 7500rpm and have a continuous 480w output, with 1.4kw peak. the matching parker drive to run that at full speed and torque is $1000+ and needs a 340v psu......
but the machine cant handle 7500rpm so theres no reason to get the big drive and the motors have more than enough torque to get by without a gear down. the amc drives run at 48v like my steppers and push the motors at full torque to 1800rpm, which is perfectly adequate on my machine. the amc also accepts step and direction so you can just use mach as normal.


so, the question boils down to whether you feel the little extra money is worth it. i personally think the increased dynamics and fail safes against lost steps make the price justified which is why ill be completing my upgrade shortly.

this isnt a fight. just ideas on how a great machine can be even better. you dont need to institute them, but you did come off as very dismissive in your first post.

as i said, sieg and how mau, and aparently now syil will have servo versions of their machines for sale. they arent doing it cause its completely pointless :)

anyhow, ill have my servo setup running (first on a test gantry, then the nm070) in the not to distant future and we can see what the real world performance ends up like.

This isn't the first debate I've heard on the steppers vs servos it been all over the the CNC-Zone forums for years, and both technologies have been evolving for years also.

All I know is, if you walk into a state of the art production machine shop or manufacturing facility, you are going to see speeds, feeds and rapids that are so fast, you have to override the rates to show someone just what you are machining.

Alot of what you guys are talking about has more to do with application than anything else. The new cnc machines are literally designed "around" their motors and drives.

When I got my first Haas mill, the factory recalled all the spiral couplers and the tech had to come out and replace them, which gave me an opportunity to see under the hood. I almost fell over when I saw the stripped down machine. No, box ways, no gibs, just ball screws and THK rails and bearings. The cast iron table was all hollowed out to to lighten it, not to save money, but for faster balanced rapids. Incredible piece of computerized engineering. Heavy where needed, light where its not. But these machines are not toys.

Novakon's are a horse of a different color. They do just fine with steppers and if your not interested in production cycle times etc. then speed and power aren't as relevant. I would think another consideration would be, how well this little machine could handle a servo crash. Not well I think. And they all crash eventually.

My two cents, -Greg

When I got my first Haas mill, the factory recalled all the spiral couplers and the tech had to come out and replace them, which gave me an opportunity to see under the hood. I almost fell over when I saw the stripped down machine. No, box ways, no gibs, just ball screws and THK rails and bearings. The cast iron table was all hollowed out to to lighten it, not to save money, but for faster balanced rapids. Incredible piece of computerized engineering. Heavy where needed, light where its not. But these machines are not toys.


and a haas is "slow and old fashioned". :)
i was given a demo by dmg a while back. they have linear motors in some of their machines. they can go 4000ipm. i thought that was fast. then i was at a friends laser cutting shop. the cutters there - also on linear motors - rapid at 18000ipm.

for a hobby users, you dont often need anything special, and certainly dont require the small perfomance increase servos will giv on these machines.... but were not all hobbyists.

for me, making small parts in a bit less time is valuable.

This is a forum for the Novakon line of Bench Mills. And I have geared my post around that central discussion point. I do not deny servo systems have their place and advantages. I would love to use servos on my larger router table. But it's cost prohibitave for what I do. For this NM-135 Steppers are suitable. I saw in a recient post claims of 100ipm & 280ipm. Who in the world needs that kind of speed on this machine? Nobody Thats who. Unless your using it for production runs and you can't stop the incomming orders. If you need those speeds you are not properly sizing the machine for the job. And if your retro fitting th NM-135 to servos, your gonna spend money that could have gone to a larger machine that justifies servos.

My stance is monitary efficency. If your using this machine for a hobby, throw all the money you want to at it. BLING IT OUT
If your using it to make you money, make sure your ROI can justify your initial investment.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

The only way I could improve on my NM-135 is to buy a NM-200.
Solid Machines from a Solid Company.

Michael
If there is time to do the same job twice.
Then there is time to do the job right the first time.

This is a forum for the Novakon line of Bench Mills. And I have geared my post around that central discussion point. I do not deny servo systems have their place and advantages. I would love to use servos on my larger router table. But it's cost prohibitave for what I do. For this NM-135 Steppers are suitable. I saw in a recient post claims of 100ipm & 280ipm. Who in the world needs that kind of speed on this machine? Nobody Thats who. Unless your using it for production runs and you can't stop the incomming orders. If you need those speeds you are not properly sizing the machine for the job. And if your retro fitting th NM-135 to servos, your gonna spend money that could have gone to a larger machine that justifies servos.

My stance is monitary efficency. If your using this machine for a hobby, throw all the money you want to at it. BLING IT OUT
If your using it to make you money, make sure your ROI can justify your initial investment.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

The only way I could improve on my NM-135 is to buy a NM-200.
Solid Machines from a Solid Company.

Michael
If there is time to do the same job twice.
Then there is time to do the job right the first time.

sassy!

:)

"I saw in a recient post claims of 100ipm & 280ipm. Who in the world needs that kind of speed on this machine? Nobody Thats who."

..... weeeeell. no. again, sorry.

100ipm is not very fast at all. on the new novakon nm135 in 6061t6 aluminium with the right 4 flute carbide 1/2" (.004fpt) end mill and coolant one could climb cut at around 100ipm happily. if you are cutting wood, as i often do, you can drive it much faster if the machine allowed it. i think perhaps you underestimate the performance of these machines. the cutting strategy on these small machines is to cut light and fast. basically the polar opposite of using a bridgeport.

you can also strap an attachment high speed spindle for work like pcb's or routing wood faster too. this is a common thing to do on these little mills. tormach for example sells a kit and offers plans to make your own. faster feeds will be of great benifit here.

but even if you dont feed a cut above 100ipm ever, the primary reason for the speed is rapids. in many complex programs you are cutting air more than 50% of the time. if you can bump the rapids up as fast as possible, you can cut down the time alot, and on something like an injection mould that might be taking 2-3 days to machine, this is not exactly useless.

this is all in the context of the novakon bench mill, one of which i have... on my bench. every person here has a different reason for owning/wanting them and a different requirement in operation. inexpensive servo setups will serve some people very well on an nm135 or nm070.

i do not have the physical space for an nm135. my machine needs to move around the work space. my compromise was the nm070. but just cause its small, doesnt mean i dont want to get the best possible performance, and spending $700 or even $7000 more to make it a slightly faster, stronger, more automated, machine is still cheaper than buying the next most practical machine i could find - a haas office mill at $50,000.

im also building an auto drawbar, tool changer and quick change tool holders for the machine. who needs those? ME!

:)

i do not have the physical space for an nm135. my machine needs to move around the work space. my compromise was the nm070.
:)

Now I understand your position. You don't actually have an NM-135. So your making your assumptions based on a much smaller machine. Perfectly reasonable. In theory.

And it's very easy to argue a point when your not compairing apples to apples.


inexpensive servo setups will serve some people very well on an nm135 or nm070


Show us some vendors and hard numbers on this inexpensive equipment you speak of. Also include the software price and controllers available please.
You may have convinced me.

Now I understand your position. You don't actually have an NM-135. So your making your assumptions based on a much smaller machine. Perfectly reasonable. In theory.

And it's very easy to argue a point when your not compairing apples to apples.



Show us some vendors and hard numbers on this inexpensive equipment you speak of. Also include the software price and controllers available please.
You may have convinced me.

.......

i gave you numbers in a previous post for my machine. the servo setup i have could actually power the nm135 as well, but more torquey motros would be prefered of course.

the servos im using are the parker sm232be nema23 frame motors. they have an msrp of $749, but show up on ebay weekly for $100-$300. i happen to have 15 of them. normally id not include used finds in this type of scenrario, but these motors really can be found reliably.

but, for the sake of this argument, lets find ideal new motors for the nm135.

we have the parker be233GJ-N10N. msrp $734 including cables.
http://www.parkermotion.com/manuals/Digiplan/ViX500_BE_SM_Curves2.pdf
http://www.parkermotion.com/products/Rotary_Servo_Motors__5209__30_32_80_567_29.html
this with a 48v power supply puts out 195 oz in continous torque to 1500 rpm (270ipm-ish), and 560oz-in peak to 600rpm. in contrast my sm232's provide 320ozin peak.

so we have almost as much short term stall torque, and a ton more dynamic torque than the existing steppers. the steppers are 800ozin in the Z and 566 ozin in the x/y. the result of the servos will be a much faster and more dynamic machine with only slightly reduced holding torque. on an 80v psu (the same as is in the current nm135) the top speed improves to 2600rpm with no loss in continuous torque, and peak torque runs to 1600rpm. you could go up to a 1300ozin nema34 servo for $1300 but for the extra stall torque you lose alot of speed. i dont think its worth while except perhaps the Z axis.

the drives are the same as i specced for my nm-070. they are amc DZRALTE-012L080 frameless drives (like a gecko) and retail at $255 each.
http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/dzralte-012l080.pdf
these drives takes step and direction just like a gecko stepper drive. for what it matters, novakon could simply toss these into your cd100 controller box replacing the g203's using most all the rest of the electrical as is. (its not quite plug and play, but as close as youll every get)

everything else stays the same. you still use mach, you still use all the same software you would have.

so "new, get it today!" in a one off msrp pricing, a servo upgrade for the nm135 is $3000. in volume, not using super expensive motors like the parkers and subtracting the g203's and existing steppers, its reasonable to see a system with a mere $1000-2000 upcharge.

anyhoo. point is, as always, that servos are quite viable on these small machines without breaking the bank. they arent necessary for everyone, but definitely arent pointless and stupid either.

:)

not that im recomending this, but:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/AC-Servo-motor-drive-Pulse-driver-replace-step-400W_W0QQitemZ320326157163QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item320326157163&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.ca/AC-Servo-motor-drive-Pulse-driver-replace-step-200W_W0QQitemZ220331756751QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220331756751&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

.... curious if these are actually any good.

First try

sorry for thread necro but where did you get that stand for your mill?

sorry for thread necro but where did you get that stand for your mill?

the stand comes with the mill.

Ok so when you get the mill you are supposed to copy the xml file into Mach 3 and rename it....what do you rename it to?

Ok so when you get the mill you are supposed to copy the xml file into Mach 3 and rename it....what do you rename it to?

i dont think you *need* to rename it. if you start from the mach loader it should be in the list.

Well I had to rename the license file to get that to work and the instructions say rename the xml file as well.

Anybody?? Some of you guys that have your mills working?

Just like NoFish says above, it can be named anything. I renamed it to have only alphanumeric chars just to be on the safe side. Just dump it in the directory with all the other xml's, and it'll be on the list when you start mach3.

Five minutes of trial and error should get your file going.

I didn't realize that you could name it anything, I thought it would have to be specific for Mach to find it. Thanks for the help guys I will try it out.

I was told it had to be renamed Mach3mill.xml same as the default xml so I renamed the original "Mach3mill.old" and the new one Mach3mill.xml to take it's place.

I don't think it makes any difference what you call it as long as it's different than the other XML file in the Mach3 directory, BUT!!!! I was having some persistent problems with my spindle speed control awhile back and I had to completely replace the XML I had been using with a new one from the Novakon web site to get it running properly.

I haven't checked this on the Mach3 forums, but I think my XML file was somehow corrupted because for the life of me, I can't see anything different between the good one and the bad one.

I called it every name in the book until I got it fixed. :)

I got it sorted last night, going to get a little further in the set up this weekend.

cool, im keeping my eye on this thread :)
get r done Fourwheeler!

BUT!!!! I was having some persistent problems with my spindle speed control awhile back and I had to completely replace the XML I had been using with a new one from the Novakon web site to get it running properly.



Do you have a link to the xml file? I have no spindle control while all 3 axis are working.

Hello fourwheeler

Are you still in need of an of an xml i can send you mine.

Marcel

Hello fourwheeler

Are you still in need of an of an xml i can send you mine.

Marcel

Khai is being very helpful and trying to help me get it sorted. Thank you very much for the offer.

Hello

Small part i made with my milling

the webs are .010 wide the rim is .015

lot of fun

Marcel

Hello

Small part i made with my milling

the webs are .010 wide the rim is .015

lot of fun

Marcel

how did you hold that down?

im finding thats my biggest challenge with little parts, holding them.

Hello
double sided tape

Marcel

Hello
double sided tape

Marcel

aha!

any preference on type/brand? ive tried a few with poor luck.

merci

Hello
Do not know the brand it came with a machine made in japan

Marcel

aha!

any preference on type/brand? ive tried a few with poor luck.

merci

I've used the ones here http://www.mcmaster.com/#double-sided-tape/=268b3k with good luck. See lower left corner of the page. They are made by 3M, FWTW.

Ok quick question, how do you touch off with the machine? How do you make the machine "know" where the material is?

Hello Jerry

What i did for this part is i put one piece of mdf in my vice then put double sided tape on it then stuck the thin sheet of brass on it . the sheet was premarked with the center of the part i wished to make then i put my end mill directly over that spot then i zeroed my X and y to zero ,then put a small sheet of paper and slowly descended my Z axis till it touched the paper and put the thickness of the paper in my Z dro then i started my program to mill it.

Marcel Beaudry

Ok quick question, how do you touch off with the machine? How do you make the machine "know" where the material is?

I also use a piece of paper to get the Z, lowering in .001" increments until the paper binds. When I need high accuracy, I'll add .003" to account for the 20lb paper thickness.

For X,Y I bought the doodad (the name escapes me now) for $25 from busybee with the LEDs, which light up when it makes contact with your metal piece. It has a 3/8" shank, and I spin it at slowest possible RPMs (so it'll rub through any grease or anodizing or anything which might otherwise electrically insulate it from your part), and move at .001" increments until it lights up.
I've heard of some folks rigging it up so that instead of lighting LEDs, it'll flip a parallelport bit (via a wire), and let mach3 know when it makes contact. Of course, attaching a wire precludes one from rotating the spindle.

Thanks Marcel and Frog, I read somewhere about the paper trick but wanted real world opinions. Thanks again

A few more old tricks:

1. Paper or Plastic

If you smoke, use the wrapper from a pack of cigarettes or similar wrapper. I cut a bunch slits in the wrapper with a good pair of scissors, then when I need one, I just tear off one of the strips and use it as a "touch shim". Be sure to place the remaining wrapper in a drawer away from air blasts or drafts.

The nice thing about using these little strips is that they are .001 thick and they are clear so you can better see how close you are to the material before you actually touch. Paper varies in thickness between .007 and .004 so it depends on how precise you need to get.

2. Simple Edge Finding

When I was young I always had some extra money to buy toys like edge finders, center finders and any other cool catalog items. I probably destroyed 4 or 5 edge finders before I finally quit the habit.

Warning! The following is a tried and true way of quickly finding an edge but don't try it unless you really know your machine and it's controls like the back of your hand. Edge finders are designed to break if you blow it. This method can do real damage if you blow it.

If you have a spare 1/4 tool holder you can put a steel dowel pin or a drill blank in it. Make sure you indicate it for run out beforehand. To find the edge of your material just jog the pin toward the part until it's real close to the edge, then, hold a cellophane strip or a .001 shim between the pin and the edge of the part. Move the shim back and forth while jogging toward the part in .001 or .0005 increments until it gets caught between the pin and the part.

At this point you should zero your axis. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! You are not at "true 0" yet. You will need to "choke" or compensate for the diameter of the pin to place your spindle on true zero just like you would with a conventional edge finder, so raise/jog the pin up out of the way and then jog over (toward the part) 1/2 the diameter of your pin. Zero the axis again, and now you are on "true 0" within .001.

This all sounds complicated "in writing" but it's really not once you've done it a few times. If you're really brave, you can run the spindle at low speed during this process, and when the shim gets caught it will be pulled from your fingers.

3. Mach3 Jogging

If you are using Mach3, there is a little known hot key that can save you a lot of time. In any event is was not known to me until I found it by accident.

If you hold down the "CTL" key while jogging, it will move the axis in .001 increments. You don't have to change screens or jog modes to do this. Try it.

-Greg

Is there a specific post processor in BobCAD for the NM-135? If not what are you guys using?

It depends what kind of software your running. I'm running EMC2, when I make PP, I save them as Sherline (Inch) which is an NGC. Unless you have a mill with a certain controller, you can choose which PP you want to use assuming Mach3 and or EMC2 will run it.

Fourwheeler, which BobCad do you have?


-Jason

I am using BobCAD Version 21. And using Mach 3 for running the machine.

What are you guys using for work holding? I have a vise but what if you want to hold something too large for the vise? Any ideas on clamping?

The biggest thing with CNC, clamping the work. It's almost an art form in itself. Some of the techniques and tools used. I would say mill your own clips, an arched piece with a bolt going through. This will be convenient since it will work at all heights, make a few. Make some small sqaures from aluminum or steel with bolts through the middel that can be used as clamps, I sometimes clamp these with 1.2.3 blocks too; the height of the block might be the height of a piece, so just another clamping solution.


-Jason

I have seen some user made clamping solutions but was wondering about pre made solutions. I haven't reached the point where a vise will not work yet but it won't be long.

I have seen some user made clamping solutions but was wondering about pre made solutions. I haven't reached the point where a vise will not work yet but it won't be long.

vise and t slot clamps are the most common. alot of epople buy or make jig plates, with a grid of threaded holes for mounting more complicated parts.

theres also those neat little wedge clamps, like a hexagon with a countersink screw that expands them. these are good for mouning objects you need access to the whole surface of.

Gotta link to these neat little wedge clamps?

Check out http://www.miteebite.com/ they have all kinds of nifty clamping solutions.

http://www.miteebite.com/products/fixture_clamp_e.html

bob

Check out http://www.miteebite.com/ they have all kinds of nifty clamping solutions.

http://www.miteebite.com/products/fixture_clamp_e.html

bob

Man they have alot of different clamping fixtures to play with....thanks for the link.