Hi Everyone,

Looking into getting an RF-45 clone, but had a question. What's the difference between the Sieg X3/SX3 and Rong-Fu RF-45 families?Benefits of both over the other? I saw someone's post on using an HF coupon at the local store and that got my mind turning again...

I've read all about the "get a BP, or an Industrial Hobbies, Syil, etc." but just can't afford it and don't have the time to re-furb an old machine (wouldn't even know how to inspect it!). I've also read about the low top speed of the benchtop machines, is there a belt drive conversion for an RF-45 clone? One day, years from now, I'll do CNC and VFD.

My first project is to make an aluminum flange for an intake manifold as the stock one doesn't fit under my hood. And some tool holders for my lathe's QCTP. Sounds like it will be multiple passes and slow feeding.

If possible, I'd like to machine a hole in an aluminum engine housing (peripheral port on a Mazda 13B), don't know if the machine is tall enough for this, perhaps the swiveling head will help. I don't expect to do this more than 2-3 times.
Then maybe brackets, emblems, bezels, etc. also.

And finally, anyone have experience with Penn Tool? They have a clone for pretty cheap Top Tech DM-45. I can't find anything about their warranty though. Reading here has taught me that Grizzly is probably out of stock, and Lathemaster will take a while to get back to me (I prefer email trails). I did notice that Grizzly's freight is cheaper and that they don't charge a sales tax to CA.

Thanks for reading my long post!
Owen

well from what i understand, the rf45 units are a round column, and thats just not what i would call an ideal situation for cnc.

I have an x3 that i've converted, and i'm extremely happy. My only issue, with the machine that is, is the spindle speed max, its a alittle slow for my taste, but there are ways around that.

I think its good that you have a couple projects already lined up for your future mill, that will help guide you towards a machine that will cover your needs.

on this aux port on the mazda engine, how big of a part are you talking about trying to mount? for some reason when you said 13b i pictured a rotary enging.. i dont know anything about mazda, so i may be way off base on that one...

The RF45 is a dovetail column mill - the RF40 is a round column. The Industrial Hobbies is a "big RF45" kind of. Like the X3, the spindle speed is the major limitation for aluminum work using smaller tools. As long as your work fits in the work envelope of the machine, I can't see how you could go wrong with the RF45, IH or Penn Tool variant of the same, though I can't speak personally to the quality of either of these machines. The Industrial Hobbies machine seems to have a good reputation here, though. They have a forum area as well - perhaps fishing around in there will be time well spent - if someone has a belt drive conversion for these machines, it will likely show up in that forum.

ahhh, ok, 45 vs 40, i didnt know the difference.... all i knew was that there was a "RF" machine that was a round, but in this case, guess not.

as for quality of machine, i'm sure that there is better out there, but my x3 really surprised me. i guess the stars aligned when mine was casted, cause right outta the box the column was dead on straight, according to all the tools i have anyway..

there are a few little things i would change, but its not a "flaw" just a couple personal preferences...

Thanks guys, yeah, my 7x12 mill was almost perfectly aligned when I got it last month. They must be reading these forums diligently.

Anyway,project5k, yes it is a Mazda rotary engine.
This was the first attempt about two years ago. Pretty hit and miss. The thing is 15 inches tall, I forgot I had it sideways on the drill press, so that's an option. I'll need a good clamping kit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/v8z/zcar/05-11-04myrez-pporttest04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/v8z/zcar/myrez-pport-test2ndtry01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/v8z/zcar/myrez-06-01-04-301.jpg

I'll attempt it again later, but for now I'M planning on using the stock lower manifold and making an upper one with less height.

Back to the topic, Penn Tool came out cheaper than Grizzly or Enco and had a 1 year warranty. Don't know how their service is though vs Grizzly G0484. But it's about a $500 difference.

I guess my mind's made up! My main reason for the RF45 series was the larger spindle to table clearance vs the X3 series.

Thanks!

But should I go for the X3 which is cheaper and on which the belt drive is more common? I will definitely be using aluminum for many of my projects.

With a simple belt/pulley change, you can get 6K RPM on an X3:

http://www.donald-neisler.com/index.php/2008/07/quick-sieg-x3-belt-rpm-6000-rpm-upgrade/

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73295

CR.

all i can say is that the x3 is a pretty solid machine, i mean i know that theres better, but is the better worth the extra coin? I've been using my x3 for over a year now, and the only thing that i've had go wrong with it was something that my own ignorance caused, and was easy to fix.

not to mention that the conversion to cnc was pretty easy with the cncfusion kit, and was in a price range i was willing to pay.

The only drawback is the spindle speed, and with a little tinkering that should be easy to fix as well...

I was going to try and pm you rezcar, but its telling me that your not allowing them.. i have questions about thoes motors, and would like to discuss, but its not appropriate on the forum.. can you give me an email addy or something?

I love shopping :-) Didn't do crap for 8 hours all day at work except weigh out the pros and cons of each machine! And was set on the RF-45 clone til I saw this pulley swap. I was even researching making a separate high speed mini-mill. Thanks Crevice Reamer!

Now, with the pulley swap, I assume I can cut aluminum very well. What sort of depth of cut can I expect with just the new pulleys and the rest of the machine untouched. As this is a hobby, I can afford to take a little longer on my parts.

My bad, that page showed an initial test of 0.625" @ 6K rpm. So the 1970rpm of the RF45 clone won't even do that???

It is possible to fairly easily increase the X3 spindle to table height to 18 inches during CNC conversion.

CR.

It is possible to fairly easily increase the X3 spindle to table height to 18 inches during CNC conversion.

CR.

Go on....:stickpoke

It is possible to fairly easily increase the X3 spindle to table height to 18 inches during CNC conversion.

CR.

Is the X2 mini-mill required to do it?? :-)

Regards,
Ray L.

Is the X2 mini-mill required to do it?? :-)

Regards,
Ray L.

Naw! That was just some fun.

CR.

This is getting better all the time!
I'm hoping HF will let me use the 20% off coupon in store!

I have the Lathemaster milling machine from Bob Bertrand and I am pretty happy with it. I looked at the smaller machines and to be honest if you intend to do any kind of vehicle or engine work I would think that the smaller machines would not be too good. I recently bought a small knee mill and have found that all of the things I was able to do on the knee mill I could do on the Lathemaster. I am currently in the process of converting my Lathemaster mill to cnc control and I am gonna keep the knee mill manual. The size and weight of the lathemaster makes for a pretty rigid machine and mine has been accurate and cuts aluminum and steel with relative ease. I cut aluminum all the time and while the spindle speed is a little on the slow side I have had not problems. I am aslo aware of the possibility of converting to a three phase motor and vfd which will allow considerably higher spindle speeds. The working envelope is Much better than the x models and while I have not owned one I cannot think that it would be anything but much more rigid than these smaller machines due to it's sheer mass. This is not a small machine and it is not lightweight either. I like to say that these machines are as close as you can get to a knee mill without the added weight and cost. I have owned this machine for almost eight years now and I am gonna convert it to cnc so that should tell you that I am pleased with it. Having owned four different smaller mills before this one I wish it had a belt drive mostly because it is a little quieter but it is also nice to be able to shift gears quickly. I have put this machine thru some serious cutting over the years and have not been easy on it and it still works as good today as the day I bought it.

In short, I think when it comes to machine tools, buy the largest and highest quality machine your money can buy that will fit in your shop and don't look back. You will not be sorry... I have bought as I said three smaller machines and now I have two larger ones, one for manual and one to be cnc. Wish I had just bit the bullet and went large from the start, I would have saved a lot of time and money and probably learned more about machining then how to make a smaller machine do what the machine I should have bought does..... Good luck man...

Pete,

Are you referring to this $1500 mill?

http://www.lathemaster.com/HEAVYDUTYMILLINGMACHINE%207045FG.htm

I have a Lathemaster mill I bought from the same fellow but they have since changed the machine. Mine is a little stouter than their current offering but it still has the same basic design features. As you can see from the specs the travels are considerably larger as well as the weight is also heavier and the head tilts altho the x3 may tilt I dunno about that. It is however a pretty stout little machine and mine has made me pretty happy for some time now. The size of the head and mass of the carriage are pretty substantial for a benchtop machine. I think it would be hard to beat it's capabilities without spending a considerable amount of cash more on another machine. I am just saying that with this fellow saying that his needs are automotive related that the X3 machines would be a little on the small side. Especially when you see some of the parts he is machining on in those pictures. The one I bought also has a power head lift feature that is very nice altho will be obsolete when I go cnc so I may need to sell that part... The parts I have made on it have been coming out very nice and the machine will just hog metal unlike some of the other machines I have owned. If you are going to spend anywhere near the $1000.00 mark for a new machine I say that this one is a good value.... Peace

Success! They accepted the coupon!
I went ahead and got the 1yr svc plan as I don't know exactly when I'll do the CNC, the coupon wiped out the amount. But I will definitely do the pulley conversion right away.

Success! They accepted the coupon!
I went ahead and got the 1yr svc plan as I don't know exactly when I'll do the CNC, the coupon wiped out the amount. But I will definitely do the pulley conversion right away.

Congrats Rezcar! Where are you located? I'm in Michigan, and they let me use the coupon too.

Also, were they able to tell you if there were any in the warehouse? I'm curious if all HF stores use the same warehouse or not. The warehouse that my HF gets stuff from is out of the X3 right now.

I'm in So Cal. They checked Camarillo and the system said none in stock, but they called also and said that they would get them in soon from another warehouse. I'm thinking they may have one big warehouse that feeds the smaller warehouses?

As of 2/23/09, none in Camarillo yet...One is backordered, so it must be yours.

A friend's husband is a long shoreman, and according to her. Work is SLOW, very slow. I wonder if the ships aren't going to sail unless a certain number are ordered?