I think it would be a good idea for those that have the Brain to post here. If you have it running, shout out. Oem guys, we would welcome any input from you as well.

Mike

Apparently not many have it running?
It still seems to be a product in the works?
I would very much like to see some feed back from a user or integrator.
I was originally under the impression that the Brain was going to close the PID loop? This would take the burden off the drives and allow the use of non-intelligent drives with analogue control, which apparently is now extra to implement?
Extra electronics required for differential encoders?
Also it appears that break out box of some kind is required for I/O and encoders etc.
I originally assumed this would be an almost self contained CNC controller, Unless I have it wrong?
The web page for the Brain still seems to have problems with Firefox so it is hard to get a true picture of the full specifications and features.
Al.

Apparently not many have it running?
It still seems to be a product in the works? Al it is true that individual users don't seem to be out there, but there are some oem/retrofitters that have it running.....they just don't seem to want to give any info out. I know because I have ask!
I would very much like to see some feed back from a user or integrator.
I was originally under the impression that the Brain was going to close the PID loop? This would take the burden off the drives and allow the use of non-intelligent drives with analogue control, which apparently is now extra to implement?
Extra electronics required for differential encoders?
Also it appears that break out box of some kind is required for I/O and encoders etc. The Brain Box itself has all the connectors needed for encoders, and some i/o, but as to how many i/o, I can't answer. I know there is a hidden panel of pins that are on the inside of the box that can be accessed
I originally assumed this would be an almost self contained CNC controller, Unless I have it wrong?
The web page for the Brain still seems to have problems with Firefox so it is hard to get a true picture of the full specifications and features.
Al.


I wish I could give you better answers, but I am still at the trying to get really long linear scales set up.

Mike

With all due respect to how busy Bruce and his team are right now, It would be great if he could answer some very basic questions people have. I posted on the CNCBrain forum but have no answers yet. I'm beginning to wonder if there is just not going to be enough support for this product moving forward.

Al, I have the same question regarding the I/O section and VFD control. To me that's the deal maker or breaker. Here is my question copied from the forum:



I have some simple questions regarding I/O setup.

To start, I have several things I want to control with the CNCBrain.

-Mist
-Flood
-VFD
-Oil (lubrication for ways and screws)
-Solenoid air brake
-Solenoid shive gear change


All of these I can trigger using separate relays.

Now, is there a way I can add more relay control triggers into the software to control the above? These would be similar functions to mist and flood options.

Is this something that anyone can add to the software or do you need to be a programmer to do this?

Also, can I control the speed of a VFD from the CNCBrain or do I need a DAC board to interface it?

Thanks for your help

If you look under the input output video it gives a fair explanation of how to set up I/O. There are two db25 ports on the front of the Brain Box that emulate regular parallel ports. If you watch the video on IO it gives an explanation and you would wire up your IO's to that port just like any other DB25 port. If you feel that a BB is necessary that would be up to you. You could use a very simple BB that is exactly that and nothing more. And yes, a relay would still need to be used for a variety of add-ons since the Brain's port is simply emulating a DB25 and does not have relays or anything else built in. The software already has controls for this stuff built in but if you wanted, you could add any functionality that is not there already with some programming. But for everything basic (and a lot of complex stuff) it is already in the software.

The VFD I don't know about hardware wise, but software wise there are provisions for spindle setup.

Also, there are no issues with my Firefox/Navigator/Safari at all. The webpage displays perfectly fine.

Hi pzzamakr1980,

Thanks for the info. I have watched the videos over and over and there are still details that are a bit vague as far as setup goes. I have the general idea though.

Regarding the I/O out for relays, how easy it is to assign extra I/O out functions to the extra pins that are on the board ? For instance, if I wanted two separate 'coolant' buttons.

Just out of curiosity what would be the point of a breakout board connected to the CNCBrain? What does it solve?

The site works for me with Firefox but I do have some overlap of the menu items.

With two seperate DB25 pinout you have many pins that are setup automatically as an out that will trigger a relay when activated.

The BB board would be useful if you didnt want to have the hassle of soldering a connector with all of the extra stuff you might add such as coolant, mist, etc. The BB would allow you to just screw the wire into the terminal on the BB and remove it anytime you wanted.

Seems like an update is in order here......
Things sure seem quiet on the CNC Brain, although I assume there are doings in the background.....

dk

I wish I could give you better answers, but I am still at the trying to get really long linear scales set up.
Mike
But how accurate can those scales be ? Anything with a belt is not accurate.

A steel rack mounted on the machine would be better. And a calibration correction table in SW would help with linearity.

Any updates?
It's awfully quiet in here lately.

:stickpoke

I guess I'm surprised at how things dropped off the cliff.
Without some word of development progress it seems like things have been abandoned. I only takes a couple minutes to post a few words and news even once a week....

Then again, I was at an auction yesterday, and a 1996 Mazak VMC (24 tools, 20HP, about 18x16x18 travels) fully functional and powered up, went for $5500.....
Hard to buy motors and drives and hardware for that price.

But how accurate can those scales be ? Anything with a belt is not accurate.

A steel rack mounted on the machine would be better. And a calibration correction table in SW would help with linearity.

Hi Larken,

The accuracy of the belts as opposed to the rack is the belts teeth mesh with much more contact area than a rack and pinion. The accuracy is a combination of the large contact area and the accuracy of your rotary encoder used to read the tics while being driven with the belts.

kmcwhq did you buy that Mazak? I would love to find one that had a 40" table that someone wanted to give away!:banana: I mean, if I am going to dream, I might as well dream big!:D

Mike

No I did not buy the Mazak......a 20-something bought it.
He kept calling it a "CN" machine (not CNC).
Said his brother "ran CN machines before and they wanted to have one to play with"....

No clue.....

Maybe the guy had spanish roots, its not uncommon to hear CN here in Argentina, it means Control Numerico (the NC part in CNC)

I also miss Bruce's frequent updates, I recall threading was promised to be released soon and that was around november if Im not confused...


Pablo

Maybe the guy had spanish roots, its not uncommon to hear CN here in Argentina, it means Control Numerico (the NC part in CNC)

Well, he was Amish actually......:)


I also miss Bruce's frequent updates, I recall threading was promised to be released soon and that was around november if Im not confused...Pablo

Perhaps Fanuc has bought him off?? And he's living in the Bahamas now, retired and ralaxing on the white sandy beaches???

:drowning:

Perhaps someone can call Bruce and get an update, post it here for all to read??

Turmite....was it you that was looking to become a dealer for the product?? Have you had contact with Bruce lately?

Perhaps Fanuc has bought him off?? And he's living in the Bahamas now, retired and ralaxing on the white sandy beaches???

:drowning:


You want conspiracy theories, I have 2x1 special today :rainfro:

[conspiracy mode on]
Fanuc (General Electric) don't need to purchase his product, they could just hire Bruce for a long .GOV contract... they accomplish the same with a loss less money plus they get his talent to do some actual work...
[conspiracy mode off]

Please don't take me seriously, I'm patiently waiting too :)


Pablo

Ya that would be me, but that is on hold till some stability happens. I have talked with Bruce very little since he started his job. I have posted this once before, but will do so again. Bruce has three projects he was developing at once, with the Brain being central since it was used in the other two. Once finished, the projects will make up the needed equipment to make a "factory of one". One person running multiple machines to produce real products at an unbelievable price, and be able to produce those parts fairly inexpensively.

Now the rest is conjecture, since he has not spoken the exact words into the ph or by email.

Bruce had a lot of time and money tied up with these three projects, and I know from personal experience r&d gets real expensive real quick. Nothing coming in and everything still needing to go out $$$ wise. Based on my own experience, I have deduced that Bruce had to take the job at the government lab in Eastern Tenn......rather than want to take the job. He gave me a ballpark of what it would do for him and his family......trust me, I would have jumped at an opportunity like that.

Here is what I know from what he has told me.

1. A new software release is almost done.....the only time frame has past.
2. An industrial version is planned, but the conversation was some time ago, and I don't remember all the details..cost is going to be something like $1200.
3. The Mach plugin is not going to happen for the forseeable future based on the amount of support that will be required
4. A support team is being assembled for in house support
5. More than one warm body is now on the ground at Safeguard, doing projects other than programming.
6. Robotic assembly is being developed and tested
7. The low cost kevlar string linear scale is on hold till the new laser is in house.
8. There several new and exciting announcements coming from other developers working with either the Brain or the software.....i.e, new screens etc.
9. Not Brain related, but a major breakthru on one of the other projects was made that will allow total in house manufacturing, but I was sworn to secrecy on this one.

I hope that helps some. It is just as bad on me as it is on everyone else. If you haven't looked on the Safeguard forums there has been some activity there in the past couple of weeks.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for reminding us about how busy he is. Hopefully he will be finishing his update soon for all the people who purchased the Brain and are having issues. I don't blame him for taking a Govt project, the money probably makes the Brain look like spare change at this point.

I for one couldn't wait any longer and recently ended getting a C23 BOB and a SS. I was REALLY excited when the Brain was announced but a lot of time has gone by with slow progress...and I just needed to get my machine up a running quickly.

For those of you with more patience than me, good luck. I'm excited to see some video of your mills running with it.

Mike..........
This is something but not much.
Is Bruce working on anti-gravity devices at area 51 (or 52) and not getting weekends off? THAT busy that HE can't post a 100 word update here? This does not instill confidence.......and I am an eternal optimist!

I forget, but it "seems like" all that you have posted has been posted before.. 1 thru 9.

Can you call me and talk awhile? Inquiring minds "want to be assured"......

PM sent with "the number".......

Hey guys sorry about the info, but that is all I have. kmcwhq I have been in bed with fever since yesterday at 3pm. I finally got to hurting so bad from just laying there, I thought I would sit in front of the pc a little while. I will try to contact you later.

Dirt, I am sorry it didn't work out for you, but I fully understand.

Mike

6. Robotic assembly is being developed and tested
7. The low cost kevlar string linear scale is on hold till the new laser is in house.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but...

News Flash ! Robotic assembly has already been perfected by people in the assembly field. If the guy is building his own automated production line when he should be completeing his CNC brain development, it aint never going to be done. He's re-enventing the wheel

Leave linear scales to companies to have the equiptment to test and develop them to a few microns.
Whats the point of a precision milling machine with a hobby linear scale only accurate to a few thou.

I didn't get a call yet. Hope you're not still sick...

It's sad this product is getting almost zero online support anymore. Maybe this will change but it's been a while since I have seen any consistent support.

With all the stuff I have purchased for my retrofit, Larken Viper drives, CNC4PC boards, and a Smooth stepper, all the owners of the products have given incredibly quick and useful support all the way through, which is most important to me. I post a question and I get a useful answer within a DAY at most!

If I had purchased this controller and was trying to figure things out I would be straight up pissed for the lack of support. Sorry to be negative here guys, but I feel bad for the people who can't get their machines stable enough to be useful after spending $500.00 .

It just takes 5 minutes for someone to chime in and give an update. Good support is CRITICAL for this type of product.

Lets hope the software update solves the issues people are having, and the company gets someone who can help people with their setup questions.....soon.

-DD

How about I chime in here as well :)

OK, first, I've been way too silent. Simply, that was a screw up. (chair) Deserve that I suppose. But answering the forums can take a tremendous amount of time, so decided to stick with the phone. I will make sure from now on to give at least one update every week on the forums/website.

Next, there is a lot of hostility by people that don't seem to be directly involved. But that's OK, that's what a forum is about. Now, I would invite anyone that wants to discuss the issues to give me a call - (865) 622-7497. After 5pm EST or weekends work best. If you have an idea, opinion, critique, or suggestion, would love to hear it in person.

Beyond the usual forum chatter (love the Area 51 comment, no gravity device yet :o), what I don't see is some people understanding the point of the CNC Brain. Now, most of you get this and have been so very supportive.

But for the others, let's list some things:
1) Motion control has been around for a very long time (suggest you check out "Mechanical Engineers' Handbook - Instrumentation, Systems, Controls, and MEMS" ... or about a hundred other books on the topic), so this isn't a research project hoping for a new discovery.
2) Computers have been around for ... well, a very long time. So, a processor isn't exactly new.
3) ASICs and FPGAs have been around for some time as well (think fighter jets).

To be explicit, the goal of the CNC Brain is to create an economical solution that can take any mix of parts and create a high-performance system ("ebay configuration"). This is not a trivial thing. To tune a motor isn't difficult, but to automatically tune any mixture of unknown motors and configurations ... now that is a challenge!

This is why it has been OPENLY stated this is in Beta form. I believe that will soon become a production product, but it will depend on everyone else to make that decision. The ability to download new processors and electronics is a center piece of the Brain. Without it, wouldn't have even gone down this path.


***
So, how about some updates.

1) The scales are something we already had from several years ago working in robotics. The problem with them is they are still in a "lab state" and no time has been available to move them forward (though we're collecting hardware needed). Currently, it takes 10 attempts to make 1 ... not exactly ready for production. :rolleyes:

- as for why? Well, there isn't a great solution out there that will fit an axis durably for under $100, especially on the longer gantries. If anyone has one, PLEASE post a link!

2) Robotics and CNC overlap in motion control (leaving out the inverse kinematics). The Brain started out somewhat backward from other controllers. It had to have open loop added because it started out a closed loop robotic controller.

-as for why? Same reason as the Brain, but for robotics to give the rest of us a chance to compete (cheap labor). The robotic version shares the same code as the CNC Brain, just with a different number of axis without spindle support.

3) The Brain update is being worked on, well, except for when writing this :). Think the issues are about nailed down. Nothing new popping up. Several people have sent me their configurations and they are being run through with a fine comb.

-The autotuner had a bug that kept it from recognizing an unstable system in some configurations. This was somewhat expected considering the scale of the problem.

-As for hindsight, the manual tuner is being exposed (file under Duh!). This will enable us to talk through any more problems and get a fix in fast by providing an override.

-Another hindsight, took a big bite for a minor version ... then if that wasn't dumb enough, available time to dedicate was cut. After this release, hope to get back to the 2-3 week release cycle.

***
Mike, sorry I put you the "defender" situation. You've always been there and understand the end goal better than just about anyone. I've been too heads down trying to get everything/everyone in place to move everything forward. Owe you big time! And get feeling better!

Pablo, you crack me up a usual! Hope to meet you in person one day.

kmcwhq, nope, not bought out. Do this for the love of the device, not the money (obviously). It's a very cool little device.

Every one, seriously, don't hesitate to call. Be glad to address the issues. Forums can be so impersonal.

***
Oh, thought I would throw in some lessons learned so far in this little adventure:

1) We've only sold a small number of these units (which was the goal ... I know, opposite of every other product release in history). Again the intent was to take the time to make the changes until it is THE solution. This approach has been a complete success in our book. Our user base is the best and the brightest!!!

2) Appreciate the reverse engineers. Nice to watch the way you work. :wave:

3) Spies. Yes, believe it or not there were a few companies spying on us. Some even introduced new "friends". A few eventually became real friends.

4) If you plan on creating a high-tech product, expect to spend a **lot** of money on the hope that some day far in the future you'll break even. Expect the world to change somewhere around mid-stream. Just keep swimming.

5) If you believe in what you are doing, its all worth it!

s/Bruce

Hello Bruce! :banana:

Very good to hear from you!

Thank you very much for the update, and hope the anti-gravity option along WITH the brain will be clicking along in the not-too-far-off future....

:cheers:

Dan k

PS.....IS there an area 52?? :D

Excuse me while I put my foot in my mouth!

Bruce, thanks for the update, I think it will make a lot of people here happy to know that the gears are turning on the CNC Brain.

How about I chime in here as well :)

Next, there is a lot of hostility by people that don't seem to be directly involved.



Looks like the competition is getting nervous (HA!). :stickpoke


.

There are gears. Oh fudge, I think I may have bought the wrong thing.

Hello everyone!

Quick update on the CNC Brain.

1) New jog mechanism in place. Know this was a pain. New interface uses spin dials. This really makes jogging soooo much easier (especially with an el'cheapo touch screen).

http://www.safeguardrobotics.com/images/jog_panel.PNG


**sorry Mike, picture buttons were great, but dial beat em. If you have another idea to merge them, shout!

2) The CNC Brain matrix (in the chip) has a new jog interface to provide direct jogging. This is also exposed through the SDK.

This is support for internal and external jog dials (pendant).

3) Running through the configurations everyone sent that was having problems. Hope to be through all the configurations this week.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

s/Bruce

Looks good Bruce.

I have some vb.net 2003 code that I found on the net a few years back, looks similar in function, are those bitmaps on the dials?


.

**Switcher,

The base dial is an image generated in Rhinocerous/Flamingo (simply a scaled picture box). The "dimple" is code generated along with the rotating text.

The image is switched during click to a green LED ring underneath, which is also a rendered image.

Didn't grab it from anywere, just built the base control, then inherited it into a percentageSpinner (for feedrate/spindle speed) and the jog control.

s/Bruce

Almost user here.

Got an X2 conversion which I'm still trying to get mobile. I'm new to the whole CNC game so the learning curve is steep.

Currently got some teething problems and instability, the goal for now is to get the thing moving so I can learn some G-code.
Closed loop will come later.

People in this forum convinced me the CNC Brain is great and almost ready.
So I asked a friend to get one for me. I liked the idea of suporting this great develoment, thinking I could use it for my new machine I was building.
This was not last week. This was not last month. This was more than half a year ago :(
At that time the software release was 1.0.6.3 and the next version was soon to be released. Well.... half a year later .... no new software :( :(
My machine is ready, but I can not use CNC Brain, because it is not ready.

I really feel I want to return it. I'm so dissapointed!
Can somebody convince me that it was a good thing to support CNC Brain?
Can somebody tell me when I can really use it?

Cncor,

That sucks dude. I almost went for the brain when it first came out but held back at the last minute and bought a C23 BOB. If it makes you feel any better I'm still trying to get my machine up and running after 3 months of building, either way it's a long process.

I do think that by now the Brain should work at least for basic functions, no excuses. Maybe the engineers are just not making enough money on it for it be worth working on full time..... I would just go buy a Smooth stepper and BOB and get that mill running at this point.

People in this forum convinced me the CNC Brain is great and almost ready.
So I asked a friend to get one for me. I liked the idea of suporting this great develoment, thinking I could use it for my new machine I was building.
This was not last week. This was not last month. This was more than half a year ago :(
At that time the software release was 1.0.6.3 and the next version was soon to be released. Well.... half a year later .... no new software :( :(
My machine is ready, but I can not use CNC Brain, because it is not ready.

I really feel I want to return it. I'm so dissapointed!
Can somebody convince me that it was a good thing to support CNC Brain?
Can somebody tell me when I can really use it?

If you can't return it, are you interested in selling it?

Jim

If you don´t want problems I recommended you to buy an LPT port for you computer. Smooth stepper have also some bugs and no backslash ... also waiting for a year for the good driver.


Cncor,

That sucks dude. I almost went for the brain when it first came out but held back at the last minute and bought a C23 BOB. If it makes you feel any better I'm still trying to get my machine up and running after 3 months of building, either way it's a long process.

I do think that by now the Brain should work at least for basic functions, no excuses. Maybe the engineers are just not making enough money on it for it be worth working on full time..... I would just go buy a Smooth stepper and BOB and get that mill running at this point.

So where is this thing standing?
As I posted long ago this is a very ambitious project.

I'm guessing Bruce and his associates are getting a hard lesson in machine dynamics. (Ouch, been there, done that).

Producing the user software interface is the easy part. Beating the physics can drive ya nuts.

Using a parallel processor designed for machine vision is very interesting but has a few problems (but I've only got 29 years designing machine vision and motion controls so I'm hardly among the best in country). One has got to admire his "thinking outside the box".

It's interesting to see how many jumped on board the "Holy Grail" of motion control via dual loop control. (chair)

I have no doubt that Bruce is a very intelligent individual.
I sincerely hope he can achieve this but I think his price point is a bit too low for a commercial product.
Perhaps a little scaling back of the original concept would help.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I have been in email contact with Bruce this week. Lots of things are changing, and he is still working on the Brain, website etc to eventually make things happen quickly.

I personally have made the committment to wait this thing out, and therefore it makes it a little easier for me. On the other hand, I already have a working machine so I can at least work. My issue is still the very large scales needed for the second loop.

Mike

Ok,
I've held off long enough.

The entire concept of this is system is not based on reality.
I understand the seduction of the concept but I've got 30 years experience in machine vision parallel processors and motion control and I've long since learned this is not gonna work.

You might get some steppers to run good enough for for some "hobby" applications.
You can kiss servos goodbye for any serious industrial app as the the solution is not even close to linear in response.(not to mention the fact that that it does not have a "unique" solution across different platforms).
Applying the techniques used here is like putting a wood screw in with a hammer.

Fancy "front ends" mean nothing without a serious understating of motion control to back them up.

Don't like my comments?
well ( They say I'm cocky, and I say what, It ain't bragging ** if you back it up) "Bob Richie"

Let's see Bruce pull this off, he's the one who said his product was ready for everyone to invest in.
I've got a huge problem with anyone who takes people's money without a working system.

Bob

Wow Bob, it's enthusiasm like yours that truly inspires innovative people.

Mariss

Hey Bob, do you actually have one of these? If not, I think the phrase, go away applies. If you do and you feel that a experimental product that by the builder's own admission still has some kinks to work out should be dead on reliable, many phrases apply. As it is, I have the system running without closed loop without any real issue, closed loop is not working, but I'm happy to be using a laptop instead of a dedicated computer with it's huge tower.

Does Kid Rock have a CNC Brain?

What does he use it for?

JoeyB

As it is, I have the system running without closed loop without any real issue, closed loop is not working, but I'm happy to be using a laptop instead of a dedicated computer with it's huge tower.

Can you post some details of your setup?

Well I see I've revved up a few people.
Good that was my intention.

I have a very large problem with anyone who announces that their product is ready and suck money from people's pockets and then say "we will get it working any day now".

There are those here that have commanded my respect, notably Mariss and NC Cams. Both of whom have many times demonstrated their in depth knowledge of motion control engineering and machine dynamics.

Yes Mariss, I know I'm throwing out the proverbial "wet blanket".
Sorry bout that but I've had dozens of bright engineers working for me with unrealistic expectations and at some point you have to stand up and throw in a dose of reality.
A bit of scaling back would seriously help this project.

Concerning the phrase "go away", consider it done. I won't bother you any more.

"Drink deep from the well of knowledge, for while it is drinking that drunkens us, it is largely drinking more that sobers us"
Bob

No need to go away.:-) Let's toss both ideas around a little and see how they land.

1) Unrealistic expectations. It's only unrealistic if you have given your personal best and find that despite your efforts the goal still eludes you. This can be because it violates laws of physics (perpetual motion), it is beyond your IQ level or the resources required are beyond your $$$ level. IQ and $$$ grow with experience.:-)

In my opinion you should always aim higher than you can reasonably reach. It makes the effort noble because you operate outside your comfort zone and success is not assured. You are not doing the easy thing. The effort of reaching towards a high goal stretches your mind and makes it limber. Even if you don't reach it, you will certainly learn things you didn't know before.

Reaching also leaves you open to serendipity. Discoveries are not announced with "Eureka, I have found it!" but rather with "That's interesting; now why did it do that?"

2) Taking money. I think I'm with on that but for different reasons. If you are building a wall then it's reasonable to take money up front. You have to buy materials and there is little question a wall will be standing after you finish.

It's risky for your personal reputation and peace of mind to accept money for a goal that isn't absolutely assured. You are not laying concrete blocks where you can estimate the finish time to within a day or so. Serenity comes from saying "It will be finished when it's done" because you owe no obligation apart from what your work towards a goal demands.

Mariss

Wise man say - Never set a deadline. :eek:


.

It's kind of tough to set a deadline on stuff like this because I don't know anymore than anyone else when things will turn out.

As you work, you keep in your head a hierarchy of potential sticking points and unknown stuff that lies between you and the goal. The kind of stuff you rummage through after the TV and lights are off but before you fall asleep. Some things you have marked as big hurdles turn out to be easy, others you have marked as easy turn into real bears when you tackle them.

Projects themselves take on personalities. I have completed the G201X and the G320X redesigns. Both are "in the can" and production boards are in-process. When I started, I had the G320X pegged as a bear and the G201X as a "cute pre-adolescent domesticated feline mammalian quadruped" (can't say p***ycat; the zone robo-censors will get you). It turned out the other way; some projects fight you every inch of the way while others just go "meow" and only want their belly scratched.

Mariss

Mariss,

We knew about the CNCBrain in this thread (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59763) more than 10 months ago. At the time Bruce the (sole?) developer replied to questions/doubts almost daily, hourly sometimes.

This gave most of us a very good image about this new product, an image every customer wants to see, that is: very responsive customer service, you Mariss are the living example of this.

The big difference is that you Mariss deliver on your promises, maybe with some bumps along the road (your cheap drives thread comes to mind) but the product is delivered

Under the excuse of being in development (not as the title said: CNC Brain is ready!...) the support faded away, heck, the developer faded away, he took a govt job, the result is the same, no more updates, no more fixes, no delivery of promised features, etc.

This is just another example of marketing being disconnected from reality.

I had patience... I had hopes for such a nice product, I think the product will never be delivered, I also hope I'm proved wrong...


I wish Bruce good luck... honestly!


Pablo

From my view point, I have to agree with Pablo.
I emailed a couple weeks ago, and did get a delayed response. While it sounded reassuring,
my "when" question was skirted with "alpha testers are testing, then Beta testers will test", production people and procedures in place, etc. But...I asked again, the testing sounds great, but is that weeks or months?
No indication or prediction of WHEN. More like political campaign promises. Sorry, but that's my take on it.....

Considering the "CNC Brain IS READY!" thread, I think people are rightly disappointed at this time.

I have a good sized collection of machines specifically waiting, no dying......er.....no.... DEAD AND WAITING ....for a low cost control solution just like cnc brain. So it was a big pick-me-up and huge let down to go thru this.

Sincerely hope we could get a DETAILED time line of progress and predictions here.
After the open enthusiasm and excitement about all the cool features and possibilities, the sudden near-silence and vague hints of 'things are going well' leaves a hollow feeling.

dk

Bob, I agree with Mariss, no need to go away, but I would sure like an answer to the question that was posed to you when the suggestion to go away was offered. Do you own a Brain?

I do, and there are several others that do, but for the most part, the people who own them do not seem to be the ones complaining. That is not to say that we are not frustrated as well, but I think, possibly, we do see the forest, in spite of the trees.

I have made this statement here before, and I will repeat it once more. Bruce invested his life savings into this project and when the opportunity came up for a unbelievable job he took it. Who amoung us would not have done the same thing? The taking of that job made it necessary to scale back some on the Brain, but it hasn't stopped. He knows that many are angry at him, but it is one of those things he is going to make someone unhappy regardless of his decisions. I personally would rather make some of you unhappy than my creditors, and I firmly believe you would do the same.

As to my own CNC Brain, I have yet to hook it up because I only need the double closed loop for a very large foot print machine and cannot afford glass scales. I have, and will continue to wait on Bruce, and support him because I need affordable long scales, and he is working on those.:D Could I use them right now.....sure. Am I angry because he doesn't have them finished? In no way, because I know what it is to be a husband and father and have the need to provide, regardless of the cost.

Peu, Mariss has a supporting cast surrounding him to allow him the time to dedicate to development. Bruce didn't. I know he has been trying to add people in those supporting roles, but I have no idea how that is coming.

Carbidebob, Bruce did not take money but he sold product. Big difference. In addition, the product worked like advertized, other than a few bugs, which Mariss can attest to, happens. If you have a CNCBrain, and it doesn't work, you have a complaint but otherwise it seems to me your statements are "pot stirring"!

kmcwhq I saved my comments to you for last!:eek: These machines you talk about? What are they? Do they currently have glass scales on them? Do you own a CNCBrain? If not, I will make you a deal right here, right now. If you meet certain requirements, I will sell you my CNCBrain for 1/2 price with the agreement that you publicly agree to either sell it back to me for same, or replace it at a later date, and that you publicly do your build here on the Zone with a new thread, lots of photos and step by step descricptions of your retrofit. The key issue is that you must have a machine that is in good condition mechanically, and it must have glass scales already mounted and in good condition? Interested?

Mike

Well I see I've revved up a few people.
Good that was my intention.

I have a very large problem with anyone who announces that their product is ready and suck money from people's pockets and then say "we will get it working any day now".

There are those here that have commanded my respect, notably Mariss and NC Cams. Both of whom have many times demonstrated their in depth knowledge of motion control engineering and machine dynamics.

Yes Mariss, I know I'm throwing out the proverbial "wet blanket".
Sorry bout that but I've had dozens of bright engineers working for me with unrealistic expectations and at some point you have to stand up and throw in a dose of reality.
A bit of scaling back would seriously help this project.

Concerning the phrase "go away", consider it done. I won't bother you any more.

"Drink deep from the well of knowledge, for while it is drinking that drunkens us, it is largely drinking more that sobers us"
Bob

Unless you have started a business yourself and by yourself, you have no idea how hard it is and what sacrifices you have to endure in the beginning.

1) You have no money. You run through your savings and you laugh later at yourself because you thought it would be plenty. Development, prototyping and components cost money. No sales means money goes out the door while no money is coming in.

2) You have to do everything. You are the designer, the purchasing manager, the marketing department, the production assembly work-force, the shipping department, customer relations and the accounting department. You are also the CEO that does strategic planning for your vast realm. You work 16 hour days, 100-hour weeks.

3) You don't appear on the radar. You have a stealth company because no one knows you exist. Try making the first crucial sales of your great new idea; you better be good at accepting rejection. It's an uphill struggle because you don't have an established reputation and that makes potential customers nervous.

4) Courage and perseverance. You'll need both. At some point you wonder just how smart was it to do this. You have responsibilities and obligations to your family while here you are, selfishly chasing your dream. You have a wife and child; it's winter and you are scrounging industrial dumpsters for oak loading pallets. You need to burn them in your fireplace because you can't afford to use your gas-fired house furnace. That's a little bit of my personal history from the mid-80's.

5) You have bugs. An innovative new product always has bugs when it first ships. No matter how diligent you are, you cannot go through every permutation of how the product will be applied. Your customers can and they will. Your customers give you the feedback necessary to track down each bug and eradicate it.

I admire what Bruce is trying to do and having walked in his shoes, I have some idea what it is costing him. I urge his critics to cut him some slack.

Mariss

Thank you Mariss,

You said so elequoently what I tried to say. Having been, and still at the place you speak of, I too know what Bruce is going through.

Mike

As you work, you keep in your head a hierarchy of potential sticking points and unknown stuff that lies between you and the goal. The kind of stuff you rummage through after the TV and lights are off but before you fall asleep. Some things you have marked as big hurdles turn out to be easy, others you have marked as easy turn into real bears when you tackle them.

Too true. Well it actually keeps me from falling asleep. The list is huge, and it's getting bigger as I discover new problems. I'm working on a motion controller too, and it was one of those projects that started out as a funny idea, but it's getting pretty big. I have been toying with the idea of using glass scales, but I can also see the problems with closed loop controllers, so I know how hard it must be for Bruce to make the brain work.

If my motion controller project fails, I believe I will try the brain. Looks like a promissing controller.

I too have been fortunate to have found a need and filled it.
But I think the recurring theme here is that many are upset that something was declared 10 months as 'Ready now' it and now appears not to be.
Perhaps those that took it literally would have preferred to know the truth that it was something in the works and would be finalized after Beta and field testing etc?
This is my conclusion after following it from the beginning.
Al.

Al,

Every time I design a new product, I live in mortal fear it may have some significant flaw that has been missed. I don't begin to relax until it has been in the field and in quantity for a few months. The original G201 REV0 drives (1999) had such a flaw. The drives would blow up on power-up for some people. When released, they too were "Ready now". Hundreds were recalled and replaced with REV1 drives that corrected an obscure problem with the International Rectifier half-bridge drivers. The cause and cure was written-up by IR in an even more obscure Application Note I had missed.

My point is everyone whose pride and reputation is tied up with what their work produces says "Ready Now!" because, to the best of their abilities, they believe it is.

The G201 is in its 16th and final revision. There will never be a G201 REV17 because it will be supplanted with the G201X REV0 in June which will do more and cost less. The 16 revisions since REV0 means we had the luxury of sales income to continuously improve and hone the product to all the perfection that design was capable of.

What if after the disastrous G201 REV0 people had called for our heads? Said we promised a lot but delivered little? We took a bath when we least could afford it replacing them. Just a little shove then would have been enough to make me give up.

By the way, the G250 was not a mistake, the G100 was and I wish I had never designed it.

Every G540 carries 4 G250s and G540s are flying off the shelves. It and the G250s are a runaway success. Soon a G540 variant will contain a 3rd-party developed USB motion controller and an SD card slot that can operate autonomously from the SD card. That's all I can say on it for now. No, it's not the Smoothstepper.:-)

The G100 was a mistake because I forgot what it was that we do. We design motor drives, not digital hardware. It was something that would have put us out of business had it been as successful as I initially hoped. Good thing it wasn't; we really dodged a bullet there.

Mariss

mariss......every time you open your mouth with some thing that is made out of unobtainium that is rapped in pure needium, it drives me nuts. i will say it now, what ever it is you are up too, and you can not talk about, i want it now and i can not wait. so i will tell you this .......you do not have to talk about it, just box it up and send it to me.

Unless you have started a business yourself and by yourself, you have no idea how hard it is and what sacrifices you have to endure in the beginning.

Been there, Done That, Im self employed since I was 18, can't be happier, started many businesses, only 3 were/are succesfull

Soon a G540 variant will contain a 3rd-party developed USB motion controller and an SD card slot that can operate autonomously from the SD card. That's all I can say on it for now. No, it's not the Smoothstepper.:-)

This is (ethically poor) marketing, unlike Bruce with this post of yours, when you started back then in 1999 you didn't had a well known competitor make such an announcement on the very thread that discusses your flagship product...

Im willing (craving) to read about it, but not in this thread...


Pablo

Been there, Done That, Im self employed since I was 18, can't be happier, started many businesses, only 3 were/are succesfull



This is (ethically poor) marketing, unlike Bruce with this post of yours, when you started back then in 1999 you didn't had a well known competitor make such an announcement on the very thread that discusses your flagship product...

Im willing (craving) to read about it, but not in this thread...


Pablo


Pablo, read Mariss' statement real close.

Mike

kmcwhq I saved my comments to you for last! These machines you talk about? What are they?

Well, I don't know if this is considered a thread hi-jack, if it is I will delete this post.

....But...since you asked.....here are some pictures of SOME of the machines I can pick from to utilize with the Brain.....or.....whatever....none of my currently running machines that I use daily are pictured here, and some of them could also benefit from new controls.
I sent these pics and more to Bruce last summer.

I too, am self employed and have been since 1982.
My machines are old and I struggle with old cnc controls and all the reliability and non-user-friendly issues associated with them. Imagine my excitement when I stumbled onto CNC Brain! How bad do I want Bruce to be successful with this project!??
The Analog board will save lots of time and money by allowing the existing drives in these machines to be used. Most of them have tool changers or turrets, so an "easy" PLC solution to control them that "I" can implement myself would be just fantastic, as I can't afford $75 or $100/hour for an electronics engineer to do these projects. The potential for this equipment to help me grow my business with relatively little investment or cash outlay is what keeps me driving on, and makes me get up in the morning......still.

I certainly agree with all the comments about self employment.
I have fought insomnia for years, the "videos" of what didn't get done, and what needs to be done play in my head at night and keep me from getting much needed rest. Friends that "work for a living" think I have it made with setting my own hours, and "all the free time" I have
to "play with my toys" in my shop.
You have to walk a mile in a mans shoes......

Anyway.....some iron...

Open cnc mill w/toolchanger:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/vkmc5-2.jpg


Mazak V5:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/MAZAKV51.jpg


Hardinge CHNC Lathe:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/machinepicsmisc10-20-08015.jpg


Hardinge conquest 42 Lathe:
(Motors but no control, disassembled but complete. This machine was an R&D project, & has never cut metal)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/machinepicsmisc10-20-08011.jpg


Large J&L lathe, w/ 3" bar feed capacity:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/JLLATHE1.jpg


Excello 208 HMC:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/EXCELLO208HMC1.jpg


Hillyer 600 Bridgemill:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/P8210009.jpg


Yasda HMC, twin pallet:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/P7010014.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/dk1machine/retrofit%20projects/P7010009.jpg

That Hillyer 600, has a monster z-axis! :D

It looks like it's about the same height as that manual Bridgeport, in the background?

The hillyer is about 18" travel in the Z... X62" Y48"
Overall height is about 10-11 ft.

The Mazak 5 needs weeding ;)

One of Mazak's smallest, they are nice little machines, very well built.
Al.

Pablo, read Mariss' statement real close.

Mike

Well Mike, if this were a connect the dots game, I wish the 3rd party manufacturer is Bruce himself... time will tell...


Pablo

The Mazak 5 needs weeding

LOL :D

[QUOTE=Al_The_Man;610463]The Mazak 5 needs weeding ;)

I keep pruning hoping it will grow into a V7.5 but no luck as of yet......

Hello everyone!!!

Wow! Mariss is a class act, as always. Thank you for the kind words. Yes, anyone who heads down this path needs to have their head examined :o ... but passion for something you believe in keeps you moving forward :banana:

***
OK, status time.

1) We are still here and working non-stop. In this for the long haul. Been completely heads down.

2) We've been testing with a few select users installs for the new software. So far, so good. In this, we are targeting some of the most difficult machines we ran across first. ... baby steps.

3) There are new drivers specifically for the Intel and AMD 64 bit processors.

4) In the coming weeks, the website is going to be replaced ('Yeahs' from the FireFox crowd). The sole purpose is to create living documents that let us interact ... as close to a piece of paper as we've seen (yes, supports IE, FireFox, and Safari).


***
Not one for timelines, so here is the order of things:

1) Alpha installs (target trouble machines)
2) Release full to Beta users
3) Evaluate the software to determine if a production candidate ... user vote.
4) Release Industrial Breakout board
5) Evaluate the Industrial board and software combination is production worthy ... user vote.
6) ... something very special .... a game changer for some :D

s/Bruce

I've been waching these threads for a while, I've decided im going to be going with CNC brain for my home built machine - I'll be placing my order within the next month or so

had almost decided against cncbrain - it seemed like the project had died

Just to chime in from a CNC owner who wants to be a user.

When I signed up to buy one I knew full well it is a first generation product, basically a beta test. I knew there will be bugs and holdups, there always are. As another self employed engineer I'm very realistic about that.

So even though my machine was electrically complete a month or so back it's still not working. This could be my fault, I don't know as I haven't had the time to get back to it. My brain could also have been damaged by following the wiring diagram which gecko sent me with my G250's. That resulted in 12v being fed into the brain for a short burst.


As a stop-gap I've ordered a simple breakout board which hopefully will get me up and running while Bruce sorts out the brain. When it does prove reliable I'll be an extremely happy camper.

Hi Mariss,

In post 55 you mentioned the word "Soon". What is soon to you?:-)

Touchy subject when you are dealing with a 3rd-party. They have their goals and expectations, you have yours. What follows is a delicate dance that brings everyone's expectations and goals into line towards a common purpose. Everyone is nervous, everyone must be made comfortable so that they can all work together.

That's where it is right now. The answer is maybe never if someone bolts, maybe this fall if everything falls together as I'm hoping. This is not a technical thing. It is political.:-)

Mariss

Thanks for your reply.

I'm excited to see both the Brain and Gecko's possible new G540 running / released.

I know my 4x4 Hybrid would love to test out some new systems.
Currently running 4x G203V


Paul

I'm excited to see both the Brain and Gecko's possible new G540 running / released.

I know my 4x4 Hybrid would love to test out some new systems.
Currently running 4x G203V


Paul

Hi Paul.

Are you excited because you've seen this combination running or are you excited at the prospect of this potential combination?

Hi Paul.

Are you excited because you've seen this combination running or are you excited at the prospect of this potential combination?

I'm excited at the prospect of having an operational system that won't require a PC.

Any new updates?

I'm interested to hear if anyone is up and running?

Any new updates?

I'm interested to hear if anyone is up and running?

My Brain hasn't behaved properly since the gecko incident. I'm currently hooked up with a parrallel port breakout board.
I'm not finished with the CNC Brain by any means, just got too many other things to do right now.

Any new updates?

I'm interested to hear if anyone is up and running?


My cncbrain it´s in a box...ten months waiting for the new driver.
LPT port, smothsteper, G100... are more stable. I hope to see 1.0.6.4 version soon.

Hello, anyone running this yet?
A very interesting concept with a few basics flaws in the logic, still seems like basic stepper motor stuff should be working by now.
Is this gonna fall under "take the money and run". I hope not.
Mariss has assured us this guy is the real deal.:confused:
Bob

I have this CncBrain for about a year now. Still not used it because it is not finished. They promised everything would run soon and software version 1.0.6.4 would be available soon. That was all about a year ago! :devious:

I think Bruce started a very interesting project. But by selling a few of these cncbrains I think he should have comitted himself to finish this brain as soon as possible.
But he took some job and probably has no time anymore.
I feel ripped off!

Anyone interested in buying it?

I actually forgot about cncbrain.....till I got email notification someone posted to this thread.
Amazing.....no posts in a couple months...

I would be mad if I spent money too, and rightly so.
Bad thing is, it will be tough for the 'next guy' that comes along with a great idea.....I will be automatically skeptical as will lots of others I am sure.

I've thrashed for a week straight, 12-14 hr days on a small gang tool hardinge cnc lathe retrofit. Should be complete and making chips in a day or two. Fagor 8025 control, which replaced an Omniturn (Omniturd) control.
Yesterday ripped out the 1HP spindle motor and vari-speed belts/pulleys, and today, in goes a 5HP motor with micro-vee drive pulleys & belt. Well, that sounds too easy.....there's 12 hours work or so making new motor mounts, moving the motor location, etc.

I can't wait to make chips....

I couldn't wait for cncbrain...:confused:

I actually forgot about cncbrain.....till I got email notification someone posted to this thread.
Amazing.....no posts in a couple months...

I would be mad if I spent money too, and rightly so.
Bad thing is, it will be tough for the 'next guy' that comes along with a great idea.....I will be automatically skeptical as will lots of others I am sure.

I've thrashed for a week straight, 12-14 hr days on a small gang tool hardinge cnc lathe retrofit. Should be complete and making chips in a day or two. Fagor 8025 control, which replaced an Omniturn (Omniturd) control.
Yesterday ripped out the 1HP spindle motor and vari-speed belts/pulleys, and today, in goes a 5HP motor with micro-vee drive pulleys & belt. Well, that sounds too easy.....there's 12 hours work or so making new motor mounts, moving the motor location, etc.

I can't wait to make chips....

I couldn't wait for cncbrain...:confused:

I took a hard look at the cnc brain before going a different route. I was very interested but I needed the machine to be up and running on my schedule.

I will keep my eyes open and when and if the brain is up to speed I will again take a hard look at using it as I have more machines in my future.

I wish Bruce all the best and hopefully the brain comes to fruition.

Mike

Well......I had email and ph contact with him about a month ago. All I can tell you is that he is still working on it and there are beta testers who have access everything new that has been done. He told me he wanted to make sure it was ready before doing the release thing again.

He told me something that I couldn't really relate to until he explained it to me.

Bruce said the Brain is now a physics engine. One of the new goodies is the Brain will help with the set up of the machine to the very maximum physical limits of the machine. During set up you will be asked for some physical input about the machine. Then the Brain will begin to test the axis one at a time until failure. It automatically records those settings, then backs off a percentage. If my understanding is correct, it will then test multiple axis at the same time and repeat the process till the machine is tuned!

I bought a CNCBrain, and I am not a bit upset. On the other hand, I already had a machine running!(nuts)

Mike

Well......I had email and ph contact with him about a month ago. All I can tell you is that he is still working on it and there are beta testers who have access everything new that has been done. He told me he wanted to make sure it was ready before doing the release thing again.

This is starting to repeat as often Shark Week on the Discovery Channel.....
Heard it all months ago.


He told me something that I couldn't really relate to until he explained it to me.
Bruce said the Brain is now a physics engine.

Golly that all sounds really cool....
When people have spent money on a product and can't use it in over a year, that is strictly -bad- business practice.
I think most would be happy with a working basic system instead of talk of advanced features?

I asked a series of questions in a direct email 2 or more months ago, and one of them was regarding the requirements of becoming a beta tester (at least).
Most of the questions were answered with a positive outlook in the true sense of a good salesman, however the Beta Tester question was completely ignored.

cncor......have you asked for a refund?

I thought Bruce said he was going to do an update every month or so on this thread? It should'nt take more then 10 minutes to type a quick update....it looks like he blew this off.

Is Bruce willing to refund the money to people who bought it? $500 is a lot of money to some in this economy.

Even if he's been working on it for months there is still no time range of when he will finish the product.

Sorry, been completely heads down.

Originally, the idea was to take the PID based CNC Brain and tweak it. This created the first versions through v1.6.0.3.

We would make changes for better controllably for one type of machine just to exclude another. This went on until it became obvious that a PID just wouldn't cover the range.

This comes from two aspects:
1) During a cut, motions are slower with constant forces and vibration. Position is everything.
2) During rapids, speed. That's about it, speed.

***
Speaking in 20/20 hindsight:
***

1) The control logic got intermixed with the communications. These things happen on the first pass of anything as you are focused on getting the other 3,000 pieces talking and operational (4 compilers, 3 languages, 3 CAD systems, manufacturing issues, etc. ... all at once).

This resulted in common errors (aka "Basics") that would "randomly" occur, such as unexplained pausing while waiting for flags to get set or released. Simple thing to understand, not a simple fix.

2) The early physics of the Brain were created as a hybrid-PID. Tuning of a PID can be a real pain ("touchy" comes to mind).

The "bright idea" was to have the Brain constantly tune the PID from the results of motion. It does more math per second than can be imagined. Good idea, dumb implementation (stupidly did not expose a manual option). Too much noise from the motors and too large of a range of machine types caused the algorithm to go off reservation.

3) Inexperience. Yep, that's about as clear as it gets. CNC is a HUGE topic and the range of implementations the Brain has found its way onto .. well ... could not have imagined such things.

***
So, now what.
***

V2 core is completely different. It isn't a tweak, it is a complete rewrite. We've had people with a total of about 500 years of >>CNC experience<< advising us, directing us, ... correcting us.

We kept 2,900 of the pieces, organized them, and then focused on the core issues.

1) Stability. We've pulled the entire core apart and reassembled it piece by piece. No more dead moves or lost flags.

2) True physics engine. Now, this one is a lengthy discussion and best saved for another time. But basically, we scrapped the PID and put in its place a true non-linear physics engine. Yes, this includes S-Curves, but much more. This lets it accurately predict behavior in cutting and rapids.

3) Automatic or manual setup. While no longer a PID, the configuration (including curvatures) can be manually set (file that under, "well duh").

4) G-Code support: Multiple. Drop down for which interpreter you want, such as Fagor, Mach, etc.. Or create your own.

5) The GUI sucked. Now, to rearrange the screen to your need, just tap a button and drag anything around as you like. Everything stretches and scales. You decide what you want it to look like/work.


***
Great, so when? And why the heck has it taken so long?
***

It has been a complete rewrite. This means we took everything apart, mapped it, redesigned it, then coded it.

We also took the time to document everything as we put it back together (which is a story itself). This helped us find those "basics" that were so annoying.

As to when, well, we have pieces being tested. We are getting ready to send out more pieces to a select set of advanced users. After that, it moves out to all the beta testers.

As for taking so long, well, surprisingly, designing the Brain isn't something you can find on Google. It is unique and as such has taken tremendous amounts of time to solve the problems.

Hopefully, we are at the end of this development cycle.

***
So when will a "Production" version be available?
***

When all the beta testers are saying it is production ready. Not a minute before.

s/Bruce

P.S. Took me 32 minutes to write this. :D

Good to hear an update.:banana:

I knew from the start what I was getting into and I'm happy to wait and work through.
It's all part of life at the bleeding edge.

Stumbled across this thread again, no updates for CNCBrain or that alleged collaboration between Bruce & Mariss that was hinted months ago?


Pablo

I was promised a schematic and a BOM which I was going graft onto the G540 motherboard. I went as far as doing a test pcb layout and a hardware study which showed it was possible to achieve that goal. I waited for the promised next step but it never happened. It seems interest waned on someone's part other than mine.

This is like fishing. Sometimes you catch something but most times you just sit there with your lines in the water. It's good to have other things to do instead of just waiting to see if you get a bite.

Since that didn't go anywhere, something else with the G540 has come up that has me excited. It involves a collaborative effort with another firm that will make the G540 similar to an Ipod player except it will play back CNC motion paths instead music files. Many production applications need the same motion path repeated again and again without having to have the "artist" present to re-record the "song" every time you want to play it back (the CNC program and a PC).

Mariss

Since that didn't go anywhere, something else with the G540 has come up that has me excited. It involves a collaborative effort with another firm that will make the G540 similar to an Ipod player except it will play back CNC motion paths instead music files. Many production applications need the same motion path repeated again and again without having to have the "artist" present to re-record the "song" every time you want to play it back (the CNC program and a PC).

Mariss



this.......i need...............arg.........stuff i now need but can not have

R.I.P. cnc brain....:wave:

their site hints at a new v2 core, nothing more... http://www.safeguardrobotics.com/

The "R.I.P." stuff is mean-spirited and isn't helpful to anyone. Try having the courage to take on a project of this scope and see how you do.:-) Projects like this run on coffee, 6AM to 2AM workdays and a nearly unshakable belief in yourself and what you are trying to do. There is little else tangible to show for your effort until it works and people are willing to pay for what you have created.

While you are working on it, you reach out to infect others with your enthusiasm. Sometimes the feedback is the only thing that keeps you carrying on while every cell in your body screams "give it up, quit, it might not work, ever". Ask me how I know about these black thoughts.:-)

Maybe Bruce bit off a little more than he could chew; picked a goal that was just out of reach for him. Maybe something external happened that stalled him. Maybe he burned out from the grinding work this goal demanded. I don't know.

I groaned when I read "Physics Engine", I know fluff when I see it and more important, I know why fluff gets tossed in the air. It's what you do when you really have no idea what to do next. Confound them with smoke when you can't think of anything else.

I talked with Bruce only once and he impressed me. Impressing me is only a part of it. Follow through is what separates the men from the boys and follow-through didn't happen. I don't know the reason but I must believe it's a good one.

Mariss

The "R.I.P." stuff is mean-spirited

Naw....not that heavy unless you choose to spin it that way....

Just stirring the pot & hoping for an update.. :wee:

Here is an email I got from an inquiry I sent to Bruce a few days ago.

"Mike,
Sorry. Installed new virus protection software. Had 144 emails in the holding folder. Well, at least the sensitivity is turned up by default :)

Not gone away, exactly the opposite. Can see the Support guy beating up the server getting everything ready as I write this.

I'll give you a shout on Saturday.

s/Bruce"

Here is a clip from a follow up that had a bunch of personal stuff about our families, but I thought I could show this part.

" As for the Brain, we are so close to releasing.

s/Bruce"

Mariss of all the people who post on this site, I respect your opinion above most if not all others. You are truly the one who does know what Bruce bit off, and maybe even some of the pitfalls he has been through. What you may not know, is that he had sunk all his resources into this, and yes it went crazy much faster than he had expected, but remember that when he announced this, he said it was beta! Will all the resources gone, he had an opportunity to take a job with a facility just outside Knoxville, Tn. Oak something or other. There is not a man among us who would have done differently if it meant taking care of our families.

While I don't approve Bruce's lack of communication, I understand it because I have spent much time with him on the ph. Due to the fact the Brain took off so fast, he did not have the ability to manufacture product fast enough, and he needed the Brain himself to run the machines to make the Brains.....if that makes sense. Again, the Brain is not his only project, but is needed to make the other two functional, and both of them will make the Brain seem miniscule in comparison.

I am the one who posted physics engine, and I did so without him telling me to. I am sure he would not have done that. I can tell you this, if you think he was excited about the Brain, you would have thought him nuts over the further development including the physics engine statement.

When a controller can take input from the user then test the machine to failure without any further input from the user, I can see how that would be important. I don't really even know what a physics engine is, but I know this feature will benefit lots of users somewhere down the road.

I have a great need for the Brain to work right now.....not next week. With that said, I have waited this long, I am going to stick it out since I sincerely expect great things.

Mike

Just stirring the pot & hoping for an update.. :wee:


And it worked !

Thanks T.M.

It's been months, any updates?
This is ending up just like the Grex...A big rip-off.

How were you ripped-off with the G100?

Mariss

A $500 I/O...

If it's undamaged you can always return it for a full refund of $400 which is what we sold it for.

Mariss

I sold it on ebay about a year ago and received $100 for it.
I'm sorry to vent as I did. Open mouth insert foot, or in my case...feet.
I know that you are a very reputable man and your drives are the best that money can buy.
I applaud your efforts.

Maybe Bruce will provide a return policy?

Maybe you shouldn't buy unfinished products? :)

Good point...
I fell for all the hype.

It's March 5th 2010

Is there any new news on the Brain?

Ive heard it will be completely finished and tested on APRIL 1 .

:)

Ive heard it will be completely finished and tested on APRIL 1 .

:)

OK, Larken, I'll bite. Which year???

Mike

Ive heard it will be completely finished and tested on APRIL 1 .

:)

Not fooling me with that date.... (nuts)

Ive heard it will be completely finished and tested on APRIL 1 .

:)


Hmmmmm, I'ver I could be testing it right now, but chose not to until I get my new machine frame built!

Mike