Hello,

I have posted in the Wincnc area already but maybe you can help me?

I have a 2006 ShopSabre with low hours. I am running servos and love the machine and have no complaints with the support from ShopSabre. However I have a serious problem with the z axis, it randomly likes to crash into the spoil board. I have re-set the g37 tool touch switch spoilboard setting several times useing the instructions that came with the switch and also a slightly different method that the ShopSabre tech uses. In both cases the machine would work for a short while then the bug returns. The z soft limits will not work after the bugs return they think absolute zero is about 5" to 7" above the spoil board. The whole z axis is so unstable that the machine is unusable unless I want to risk wrecking the spindle and or whatever is being worked on. Twice in the last two weeks I have had to hit the abort as the z bugged out and crashed, once into the spoil board and once into a project.

Does anybody know of a cure other then switching controllers.

Thanks,

daisy if you post in the shopsabre thread with the most post you will wake up some of the participants other wise one would have to wait untill they just happen to check the thread

jim

I have a 2006 shop sabre with servos also. No problems so far but I just got it a few weeks ago. I'm not sure what is causing your problem but I would suspect the controller or encoder. Could also be a loose or frayed/bare/short wire. I would check every inch of wire for bare spots & shorts. Check all the connections & check for kinks that could cause a broken wire inside the insulation. If you still can't find the problem then it could be the encoder or controller. $$$$$$$$$

Another thought!
The encoder could be loose on the shaft, but I think that would cause a more permanent problem.

Thanks Loco, I'll give the wires a good look. With the problem being of an intermitent nature a ground fault is a definite possibility.

Ddog,
Any luck finding the z goblin? Where are you located? If your not too far, perhaps I could come by & take a look. Being an owner of basically the same machine, I really want you to get this solved.

I sincerely appreciate your help Loco. I am located in s.w. Michigan, Kalamazoo to be exact.

I have not traced the wire from controller to motor yet, that will happen this afternoon. I am also going to call Shopsabre again and see if they have any more ideas.

I am leaving for a one week vacation Sunday and hope to have something figured out by then.

Thanks Again,

Joe Ddog

Ddog
Just a little too far for a visit. I'm in Pensacola, FL. I'll help from here as best I can. I talked to a friend who is a wizard with electronics, he thinks it's a short, loose/broken wire, cold solder joint or cracked circuit board somewhere in the encoder circuit.

HI Loco, I think I'll just come down your way and forget about my cnc problems till Spring.

Thanks for the time and input I will use the info during my next session with Ben from Shopsabre. I did trace down the z axis motor wires and they looked good, there could still be a problem that is not readily visible.

Thanks,

JoeDdog

ddog,
Keep after it. You'll find that gremlin.

I had the same problem with my previous ShopSabre. We were never able to identify it, but they thought it might be in the WinCNC software (which doesn't make sense sense to me as an intermittent thing). I just received my new ShopSabre, and it is working great using the old controller. (The problem with spoilboard crashing is it is very intermittent, so I may still see it) Here is my thought though ... Check to ensure nothing, or noone, is bumping the tool height switch during operation. This is probably nothing, but the last time this happened to me, I had bumped the switch with my elbow and didn't think much of it until the next tool change, when the problem occurred. Not something I want to test for sure, but if this is the problem, then WinCNC should disable the switch if it is not specifically being used.

what do you mean by a tool height switch, i have two machines one with multiple tools and one with only one, i have custom screens and the wincnc is fully changable, can i see a screen shot of your screen? we call setting tool depth or "z" height, "touchtop" this is done with a macro and the screen has a button for it, setting multiple tools is automatic on my screens, my tool change screen is at shop so i will show you later.



jim

I am talking about the tool height switch on the machine. Mine is located next to the tool bar. I am not confident that this was my issue, but bumping the switch was the only common element I could find to the diving problem, and the problem didn't occur after I started watching it. I haven't had the new machine long enough to know if it will still have the problem. My logic is that bumping the switch caused the machine to think the tool bottom was much higher than it was, so the next change to that tool the machine went to the new height. I would think that WinCNC would disable this switch except during a tool height calibration command

ahh atc tool setter, yes i can ask

jim

I have the tool touch switch also although I do not have an atc (wish I did).
I have to acclimate the touch switch to the spoilboard for it to operate properly after the acclimating the switch it is supposed to stay that way until the spoilboard is replaced. However my controller loses track of the relative lacation of z within a few tool changes or z moves during executing a file. The soft limit will only allow the machine to run with the cutter about 5 inches above the spoilboard and no higher than 51/4 inches off it and if I turn off the soft limits I fear another crash is just waiting to happen. The thing about the soft limits being so far off is this reflects that somewhere in the controller system (software, hardware,etc.) there is a disconnect on where the z is.

I have not had time to run a tune up test that shop sabre sent me, that is next hopefully it will work. I'll let you know.

Joe Ddog

we use a 1/2 inch plate of aluminum attached to a pin on wincnc, we call it touch pad, the aluminum pad stores away when not needed and has never lost position. i'll try to show you a pic today, the command is set tool depth and bit touches plate and retracts to a preset height above table, say.75 and z iz now set.

jim

James,
I am interested in your aluminum plate. Could you put up a picture and let me know how it is wired. Does the bit provide the ground path so it acts like a switch?

Randy

yes i am on my way out but will take a pic and send you the mac for it it is called a touch mac, back in a bit

jim

we have atouch top command on screen, aluminum piece is pinned to wincnc

jim

Jim,
Do you have details on what pin you are using on the controller, what the board is, and any coding needed when an interupt occurs in wincnc.

i have sent you an pm

i need to go out i sent a pm for an email as i cannot post file here will be back later

jim

how you comming on the tool set, the button and it's location in the wincnc scrn ini eluded me butr i can reach the fellow who wroye it if you need me to

jim

It is going to take awhile. My son works at a robotics company designing these types of things, and he is helping me look into it. The material you sent was very helpful and offers some great ideas on how to get there. When we come up with something, I will post the solution.

Hi,
I don't know if you have resolved the problem yet, but thought I would put in my two cents.
I had the exact same problem with my ss. Took awhile to track down but it was a wire on the controller card that had come un-soldered. Hope this helps.

Jon

Thanks for your input I will take a look at the control cards today.

If I can't cure this soon I am going to replace the Win controller. The thing has never worked right and I am ready to use this otherwise wonderful machine.

I have looked at Flashcut, Camsoft and Mach2/3. The Flashcut and Camsoft both claim they don't have the same problems as Wincnc because they do not rely on windows for control accuracy. They both claim that the associated harware that comes with them is somehow isolated from windows.
The cards they come with appear to be nothing more than control and breakout boards at an exagerated price very similar to what Win offers. The Mach comes with no boards but high quality control and breakout boards can be purchased from CNC4PC or some other store.

The thing I like about Flashcut is the software program but the signal generator looks like an overpiced control board. The other concern with Flashcut is they don't retutn e-mail or phone calls concerning product info, I can only guess that their support would be a when and if we want to basis.

Camsoft is very exensive but also is a nice program they are very responsive.

Win is out for the buck if you buy from them you get 30 days support after that get your wallet out. It takes 30 days to get up to speed and really figure out if any support is needed. Thanks for the support Wincnc.

I like the Win program well enough, although making screen adjustments is more complicated than it needs to be and the viewer screen is clumsy and limited.

What is the red interface board that Win offers on their website for $490 it looks like a $150 breakoutboard.

The control hardware supplied by Shopsabre is good equipment their choice of Wincnc to run it is unfortunate.

Enough ranting. Anybody with controller repacement experiecnce or suggestions?

Thanks,

Joe Ddog

i have the new and old boards, two machines with wincnc, and a great relationship with the machine provider, wincnc is not a second rate controller by any standard and support for me has been first rate. it is not an easy or simple controller at least untill i learned it, but this has been true of all my machinery. have you had the machine since 2006

wincnc can be tuned and serviced on line as we do all the time, recently i spent a couple of weeks working with a fellow in fla who finally realized he had his w and z wired as each other, it was not untill i finally got him to purchase a web cam that we figgured it out, as i understand it you are having a z problem not x and y, earlier in this thread i read that shopsabre support was good for you, they know the deal on this, there is somthing bigger wrong here than the controller,

i have the new wincnc board and so far it is worth every penny, it is all about relays and atc as well as vacuum and operation, it i had a single head machine with no vacuum it might be somthing i could live with out.

as far as support the machine builder should be able to take care of this, recently we had a major drive problem but wincnc worked hard and daily with myself and 11 other machine owners to ensure it was not the controller but kelly at wincnc did not quit or pass the buck on any thing, i have had to learn the controller and the software of my cnc's

i sure hope you find your problem before you go down the controller road,

jim

Thanks Jim, I agree Win is a good program when it works right and is not difficult to run once you learn it. Unfortunately their support is only good for 30 days beyond purchase date. I think one year is more appropriate, you can hardly learn a program in 30 days. I have talked to Kelly too he is very polite and helpful but can only hint at what might be the problem unless a contract is purchased. If Shopsabre cannot figure this out I am going to see if Win is willing to do a contract on a contigency basis. I am willing to pay for a contract if they are willing to waive the fee if they cannot fix the problem.
Even if they discover its not in the software, it should not take long and I will still pay them for their service. What is not acceptable is a no progress report and a full contract bill.

If this all works out I will consider using Win on my Multicam retro. I would still like to know why Camsoft and Flashcut consider themselves to be safer from the glitches of Windows than Wincnc is. Do you happen to know or is this all hype and they are all suseptible to a windows goof up. I also would like to know is Mach 2 as good as the higher priced software programs, it sure is popular and capable.

Nothing against Win but I cannot say my experience has been good so far and there are several other good progarams out there.

All the Best

Joe Ddog

in the next few days lets look at what the problem is, i know a couple of dozen end users of win cnc and glitches are not a problem. i am watching the oscars. lets figure this out

jim

Hello, The z problem is fixed for now and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. The g37cal and the g37z had to be adjusted that appears to be the reason the soft limits were always interfering with the tool touch, they were not turning off when the g37 command was called. There were also some other tweaks done to the soft boundries and limits.

The support from Shopsabre was prompt and professional, the tech who figured it out is a Wincnc alumni who has been with Shopsabre for a year or so. It took him about five minutes to figure it out. I'm glad he works for Shopsabre now. When he worked for Win they used have a forum on their site that customers wouldn seek advice on. About once a week he would answer any ongoing questions.

Ah those were the days. If Win still did this it would cost them very little and improve their product. They would get first hand feedback and earn goodwill as well as learn some of the things they need to do to strengthen there program.

I think they view cnczone as their customer support, they should pay the zone and Jim a fee for all the fixs they do for them.

Well I hope that this bug is exterminated.

Thanks Shopsabre, and Zone heads for all your suggestions they all helped.

Joe Ddog

excellent !

i am a fan of wincnc and learning it was a fluke, we had a bigtime z step loss problem and went in every direction but the driver, in that process wincnc was considered to be the culprit but in the end it was not. wincnc will support the software but only thru the oem manufacturer's i can somewhat understand this as i have found the application issues are best dealt with between the end user and the builder of the machine. i am now learning more about the use of the preset home positions and know of someone who is writing an application and use guide. hopefully we will hear more and more about this

i am glad to hear your machine is cuttin, that is one safe feeling!

ps, if you get a good ini file save it in a safe place!

jim