Hi all,

Just trying to find anyone in Perth, Western Australia who likes tinkering with CNC, I've just converted a mill myself :) with a rockcliff controller but the PC im using maybe playing up :mad: intermittent movements, seems like under voltage pulses from the Parallel port and not firing the opto's similar to what you would expect from a laptop with power saving mode on, sourced a PCI parallel card to try and see if that'll get it going.

BTW, I've migrated from the nightmarish MC433 enough said :eek:! (not parallel port related, the board is just crap!)

Anyhoo, if your local give us a shout, or even if your not with a similar conversion, I will post photo's of the setup tonight when I get home from work, for all those interested peeps out there.


Adam.

www.xasertech.com

Hey mate. I'm doing a similar conversion (in Sydney) on a HM45 clone.

Quick question: Did you replace the XY screws/mounts. I've found mine has quite a bit of play and I'm thinking of an eventual ballscrew conversion (sloppy CNC is still better than my manual skills).

Hi CrazyIvan,

My machine is still stock apart from what I have done to it, I did have herrendous backlash when I first got the Mill but the brass nuts are somewhat adjustable. But there was a prob with binding in different spots up and down the length of the screw. As the pics of the X and Y drives are now the Pulleys are tension against the thrust bearings to elminiate all axial movement.

After a day of frustrating adjusting and testing I've finally got it down to .05mm to .1mm like you said its still better than manual milling anyday.

I will however when I wear these out convert to ball screws as long as my machine lasts long enough to make the new parts!! (I have no doubt it will) :)

How far along are you with your conversion?

Cheers,

Adam.

www.xasertech.com

My conversion is going a little slow (haven't touched it for 3 months!).
Also, just to make it harder, I'm making my own 4 channel servo controller.
I've rigged up the X & Y just to get it moving and run some tests (1:1 to the motors).
http://ivan.blogs.chimerical.com.au/post/2008/09/13/DIY-Servo-Controller-Initial-Mill-XY-Test.aspx
I have 0.2mm of slop in my X+Y (0.1mm in the nut + 0.1mm in the bearing mount = 0.2mm total).

I'm going to connect up the quill next, and then it should be able to do some real work.

I've the square column model, and plan to eventually automate the column (not quill). I will need a ballscrew conversion on the Z because the standard screw is inefficient as hell.

And I need to finish the servo controller... and a million other ideas.

BTW: I love how clean your motor mounts all look (especially compared to my old RHS & flexible tubing:)).

Great vid. Looks like nice quick rapids too! :)

I seem to be plodding along on mine lately its been too bloody hot in the workshop, its hard to think straight when you've got sweat pouring into your eye's. :(

I opted to do the quill only (round column is out of the question anyway) for the Z thats 130mm of travel which for me I think is enough for what I want.

As you can see I chose steppers for the motors (nothing against sevro's just simplicity at this stage) and geared the X & Y down by 3.33:1 and the Z by 2.67:1. No play in the Z as I have re-tensioned the spring return so that it is always working against the motor, still with very little effort on the motor.

I have powered the column (not shown) with a ol' radar head rotating motor because the novelty of hand winding the head up and down wore off very quick, I think it was the day after I purchased the mill :) You might see in one of the pics with the E-stop button a silver flush mount button 1 above and 1 below the E-stop thats the powered head up/down buttons.

Anyway off to do some more tinkering.

Adam.

Adam,

There are a few people here in Perth doing the home built cnc. I'm very slowly converting a RF45 clone (titan machinery) to cnc. Have just bought ball screws. Now have to design and build the bearing housings. Oh, and find a place to setup the mill.

The local get to gether is the 3rd sunday of each month.

Mark

Mark,

What size screws & nuts did you get / where from / how much?

Adam,

There are a few people here in Perth doing the home built cnc. I'm very slowly converting a RF45 clone (titan machinery) to cnc. Have just bought ball screws. Now have to design and build the bearing housings. Oh, and find a place to setup the mill.

The local get to gether is the 3rd sunday of each month.

Mark

Nice too hear from you Mark, it would be nice to catch up with local fellow CNC'ers, feels like I'm the only one doing this sort of stuff until you find someone actually interest and willing to share experiences. My mates can't follow what I'm doing, just goes straight over there heads and beeline to the beer fridge :)


Okay, This is a general prob I will throw out to the forum to see if anyone else has this issue or has over come it.

Issue: I'm having a few drama's with setting up my controller. It's the Rockcliff 4 axis jobbie. I am experiencing intermittent stepping at any speed, so far through process of elimination I have, from the parallel port 0 to 4.65 volts from low to high transistion passing through a 470 SMD resistor to the Opto P421. See pic.

Now from what I gather with probing the logic side of the board a 470ohm is TOO high for a in this case 4.65 volt supply at the end of a 3m parallel cable when it disconnected.

When the cable is connected the voltage is 2.82 volts port side of resistor, on the other side of the resistor it's a mere 1.12 volts (measured).

Now tell me if im wrong, that's not high enough to keep these Opto's on reliably? (keeping in mind Active low is what I need to make a definate step.)

Is a 3m Cable too long?

Are the resistors of a too higher value?

Is the voltage out of the PC good?

Anyone else have any ideas on where to start for a remedy?

Im thinking of making an Parallel booster just for the step signals because Direction signal seems OK, go figure!

Also can't find any datasheets on this paticular opto. :(

Cheers, Adam.

Ivan,

I have 20mm by 5mm pitch ball screws. Not sure on price as another from the group ordered the parts and I had several items ordered. Will try and get the place they were ordered from for you, somewhere in Asia.

Adam,

Nothing wrong with heading for the beer fridge, but I know what you mean. Are you in Perth? Drop me a PM if you want to get together. Not sure on your problem. I'd need to read the manuals on the different parts. What are you using for a BOB?

Mark

Mark,

Yeah mate I'm in Perth 15mins out of town South of River, I'll PM more details.

Forgive me what do you mean by "BOB", sorry haven't come across that term before.

Adam.

Adam,

BOB is a Break Out Board. Used to isolate and buffer the signals between computer and the machine electronics.
Campbell designs, CNC4PC and a few others make them. Saves a lot of problems.

Mark

Break out Board, I should of worked that out. *slaps head

Everything is integral to the control board BOB and drives as per pic a few posts back.

No buffering though all real time from PC. All is very simple in design, can't understand the high losses as the "hi" state arrives at th optocoupler. It only flows though 1x 470 ohm resistor then the opto.

I currently trying to find a data sheet on the opto to find out the supply for the opto's LED because based on a typical 2v, 20mA LED for a 5v supply you only need a 150 ohm resistor. I'm almost certain this is the issue.

Don't understand for a engineered item why this has happened unless of course it is a manufacturing error.

Adam.

Well, great news.

My machine works, it actually works does all the right things X and Y moves with absolute grace, as does the Z.

Machine jogs around beautifully, and then hit the home button and axis by axis returns to home!

What I did, if you've been following the previous posts, I put a 560 ohm resistor in parallel with the original 470 ohm on the "A" axis for test purposes hooked it all up and hit the jog button and WHALA movement! New ohmage = 254.

Glorious, smooth movement!!!! at speeds right up to 750mm per minute with steppers, and on not so high quality trapeziodial screws(machine standard) mind you.

With the new resistor value has allowed the the opto to turn definately "on" when "hi", and not in digital limbo as previous, and staying within the mA rating of the opto LED.

So with the "A" axis test done I replicated the procedure to the other 3 axis and have gotten the machine to work in harmony.

All thats left to do is calibrate, tidy some wiring and start designing and machining.

Now all I got to do is get out of work somehow, because my minds not on the job, lol.

Will try to post some pics and vids of some action in the next few days.

Cheers, :) :) :)

Adam.

Adam,

Glad you found a solution. Work is really busy so hadn't had a chance to think about your problem.

What are you using as CAM software?

Mark

Hi Mark,

I use MasterCAM X3, and SolidWorks for the Concept and Design.

Cheers,

Adam.

Hey Adam,

I just came across your post. I also have a HM35 I plan to CNC shortly and a Hafco AL320G lathe from Fiora that needs CNC treatment as well. Oddly enough at present I make customised low cost CNC machines for a living using these two manual machines!! I also use Solidworks for my mech design so we have a few things in common.

Would love to see how your HM35 turned out.

Regards

Doug, Kingsley WA
MZ3 (http://www.mz3.com.au)

Hey Adam,

I just came across your post. I also have a HM35 I plan to CNC shortly and a Hafco AL320G lathe from Fiora that needs CNC treatment as well. Oddly enough at present I make customised low cost CNC machines for a living using these two manual machines!! I also use Solidworks for my mech design so we have a few things in common.

Would love to see how your HM35 turned out.

Regards

Doug, Kingsley WA
MZ3 (http://www.mz3.com.au)

Hi Dmenz,

Great to hear from another local, and yes sounds like we do have a lot in common. My machine is operational but not "finished" as such we'll at least appearance wise. Already paid for itself.

Here are some photo's,
Pics - Click Here (http://www.xasertech.com/pics.zip)

Hi Adam,

Thanks for your fast reply and the pics. Very nice job, the mounting brackets look great - did you make these all yourself before you had the CNC capability? Also just wondering have you machined much in mild steel and if you have, how have you gone with speeds, feeds, depths of cut and tolerances?

Regards Doug

Hi Doug,

The whole mounting unit I had modelled up in Solidworks for each axis to determine pulley sizes, belt length's and belt path then designed the brackets to suit. Then to my advantage I had the brackets Laser cut by my brother-in-law out of 6mm 304SS "overkill" but it aint going to move.

So far I have only machined Non-ferrous materials as im not setup for coolant at this stage not needed to or at least avoided having to. Max Spindle speed is only 1600rpm which lowers any higher feed rate for aluminium currently max speed with a 2 flute end mill is 200mm per minute, rapids are at 750mm but I keep it down to 600mm just for minimizing the chance of lost steps.

Depth of cuts I find for the given spindle speed and feed rate I haven't gone over about 1.2mm per pass for ali, cutting holes and profiles I use a ramp program rather than step mainly for finish on cut faces, over leadin/out that is.

Tolerances are good enough but can be improved at the moment if I program a 13mm hole for instance I get a 13mm hole by caliper(quick measure) or 13.1by bore gauge. Still orginal leads and nuts haven't adjusted them since new but about due for a calibration since nut and screws should be well on there way to being bed in. I plan in the future to convert to ball screws and loaded nuts.

Im planning to make the angular 4th axis soon, and a spindle conversion need to up that spindle speed, the gearbox noise gets a bit annoying during long runs.

Hope this helps, sounds like we may have to catch up :) . I've been that busy lately haven't had time to scratch myself.

Cheers,
Adam

Hi Adam,

Thanks again for sharing that information. I use my HM-35 manually at present for some heftyish cuts always in mild steel ie facing with a 75mm cutter and 20mm slot drill and slots from 4-16mm in up to 10mm. Even manually, ramping is definitely the key and a CNC conversion would help a lot here. From work projects I have some offcuts from ball screws 20x5 and 20x10 (happy to machine the ends for you if you don't have a lathe). You could have these if they suit and I can get reputable ball nuts at a decent price on my next order if you are interested. Do you have a lathe as I am interested if anyone has CNC'd a Hafco AL-320G lathe or similar?

Bit the same here with time have just had 4 projects running concurrently at work but only one running for the next 6 weeks so time to do some capital upgrading http://www.cnczone.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

My contact details (http://mz3.com.au/html/contact_us.html) if you are ever NOR, if you can email me a contact number I will give you a call.

Regards

Doug

Hi, I have a very similar machine (RF40 in the UK) I wore the original Brassy/Bronzy nuts out in no time flat :) Fitting the ballscrews etc should be a breeze if you guys get your heads together as a working makes such a difference! :beer: My current X axis mount.http://www.cnc-conversion.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41&g2_serialNumber=2

Hi Adam,

Thanks again for sharing that information. I use my HM-35 manually at present for some heftyish cuts always in mild steel ie facing with a 75mm cutter and 20mm slot drill and slots from 4-16mm in up to 10mm. Even manually, ramping is definitely the key and a CNC conversion would help a lot here. From work projects I have some offcuts from ball screws 20x5 and 20x10 (happy to machine the ends for you if you don't have a lathe). You could have these if they suit and I can get reputable ball nuts at a decent price on my next order if you are interested. Do you have a lathe as I am interested if anyone has CNC'd a Hafco AL-320G lathe or similar?

Bit the same here with time have just had 4 projects running concurrently at work but only one running for the next 6 weeks so time to do some capital upgrading http://www.cnczone.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

My contact details (http://mz3.com.au/html/contact_us.html) if you are ever NOR, if you can email me a contact number I will give you a call.

Regards

Doug

Hey Doug,

Ball screw offcuts sweet, I'll keep that one in mind when I do go ahead with the upgrade at the moment thou the machine is good for now, pretty big job to convert. I have a steady stream of work for it so I can't really afford to take it offline as yet.

Haven't got a lathe...yet I plan to down the track but most likely the 4th axis on the mill may suit my needs but I will see after its done, don't have much call for lathe work but I like the fact if I need somthing spun up I can just do it.

My contact details are on my website www.xasertech.com (http://xasertech.com).

Hi, I have a very similar machine (RF40 in the UK) I wore the original Brassy/Bronzy nuts out in no time flat :) Fitting the ballscrews etc should be a breeze if you guys get your heads together as a working makes such a difference! :beer: My current X axis mount.http://www.cnc-conversion.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41&g2_serialNumber=2

Kipper,

Awesome mount so neat and finished, I'll be putting covers on mine to keep swarf and what not out of the belts and pulleys.

That's just the bling you've got right there :)

Hi Adam and Kipper,

I agree with Adam on the quality of Kipper's enclosed mounts - great work. Adam good point about having the mounts covered as I guess swarf and coolant would become an issue in the end. Sounds from you both that ballscrews will be essential eventually for long life and high accuracy so I will head this way. What ball screw pitch and diameter do you gents suggest based on your experiences? Also what sort of machining were you doing Kipper to wear out your ACME screws and nuts as I will be machining mild steel mainly? What motors do you guys use as in brands, torque and achieveable RPM and what drives? I have used Ability Systems G Code controller previously for a 4 axis 3D profiler but unfortunately it only supported 2 axis G02 and G03 commands so I had to code 3 axis moves directly into the Indexer engine. However it does support using multiple parallel ports very well. I have an unused, so far, copy of Mach3 which looks promising. I have also started looking at EMC^2 for its multi port capability but on Linux which may have better timing control than Windows. Multi ports and therefore more axes will be useful for multi axes machines and even Robot arms or just for more inputs like Ability Do you guys have any comments or suggestions on software? Hopefully at the end of this project I will know a lot more and have a light duty for steel but useful 3 axis CNC mill and drill of course.http://www.cnczone.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Regards

dmenz

I use 2.5MM pitch screws on mine although if I was to replace I would go with 5MM as the 2.5MM with 2:1 resolution is no longer needed as no more machine dies for an injection moulders is needed (they bought a VMC) I use 1.8nm motors at the moment and have no need for any more "power" they are Chinese Nema23 FL56 type. After 8 hours of machining today they were (the motors) 36C and the gearbox output shaft 32C (Cooled by the coolant which was 33C) Todays CNC project was a flying gantry router upright.http://www.cnc-conversion.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=195&g2_serialNumber=1 Drawn and programmed in Bobcad V21 and processed by Mach3


YouTube - Bobcad21 Animation Both programs I like very much :D Images of my mill internals can be seen on my gallery site (http://www.cnc-conversion.com/gallery/main.php)

Hi Adam and Kipper,

I agree with Adam on the quality of Kipper's enclosed mounts - great work. Adam good point about having the mounts covered as I guess swarf and coolant would become an issue in the end. Sounds from you both that ballscrews will be essential eventually for long life and high accuracy so I will head this way. What ball screw pitch and diameter do you gents suggest based on your experiences? Also what sort of machining were you doing Kipper to wear out your ACME screws and nuts as I will be machining mild steel mainly? What motors do you guys use as in brands, torque and achieveable RPM and what drives? I have used Ability Systems G Code controller previously for a 4 axis 3D profiler but unfortunately it only supported 2 axis G02 and G03 commands so I had to code 3 axis moves directly into the Indexer engine. However it does support using multiple parallel ports very well. I have an unused, so far, copy of Mach3 which looks promising. I have also started looking at EMC^2 for its multi port capability but on Linux which may have better timing control than Windows. Multi ports and therefore more axes will be useful for multi axes machines and even Robot arms or just for more inputs like Ability Do you guys have any comments or suggestions on software? Hopefully at the end of this project I will know a lot more and have a light duty for steel but useful 3 axis CNC mill and drill of course.http://www.cnczone.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Regards

dmenz

Hi Doug,

Well currently the ACME screws are I think 25 or 30mm diameter with 3mm pitch I would think you could quite safely get away with a 20mm dia ball screw. 5mm pitch would be ok because if you use stepper motors you’ll probably need to gear down which will in turn increase the resolution of the step. E.g. my setup is 200 step 1.8° motor, 3mm pitch and a 3.33:1 gear ratio,

Current 3mm pitch ACME screw resolution
 (3mm”pitch” ÷ 200”steps per rev”) ÷ 3.33”ratio” = 0.0045mm per motor step (more than enough)

Ball screw 5mm pitch
 (5mm”pitch” ÷ 200”steps per rev”) ÷ 3.33”ratio” = 0.0075mm per motor step (still more than enough)

Obviously those figures are for a perfect world if there was no backlash, belt lash or leadscrew end play.


I use 425ozin(30.6kg-cm) bipolar steppers by Kelinginc.net with the gearing it has increased the torque to 1415.25ozin(101.898kg-cm) @ approx 110rpm.

Mach 3 is what I use and does not miss a beat, just install a lean copy of XP and away you go. Just get a dedicated PC for controlling the mill and nothing else and you be fine, a touchscreen is nice too as Mach 3’s interface is designed for :) and Mastercam X for the programming.

I use a Rockcliff 4 axis controller with parallel interface and Break out all in one and a dead synch to setup, although it is open loop as long and you don't try and drive the motors too hard you won't have and positioning issues.

Cheers, Adam.

Doug,

I plan to cnc the 320g. Have the lathe and ballscrews. Still to buy motors.
Haven't had time due to work as well. Looks to slow down a bit next week.
Look to be building some interesting machines.
I'm nearby if you want to meet about the 320g.

Mark



Hi Adam,

Thanks again for sharing that information. I use my HM-35 manually at present for some heftyish cuts always in mild steel ie facing with a 75mm cutter and 20mm slot drill and slots from 4-16mm in up to 10mm. Even manually, ramping is definitely the key and a CNC conversion would help a lot here. From work projects I have some offcuts from ball screws 20x5 and 20x10 (happy to machine the ends for you if you don't have a lathe). You could have these if they suit and I can get reputable ball nuts at a decent price on my next order if you are interested. Do you have a lathe as I am interested if anyone has CNC'd a Hafco AL-320G lathe or similar?

Bit the same here with time have just had 4 projects running concurrently at work but only one running for the next 6 weeks so time to do some capital upgrading http://www.cnczone.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

My contact details (http://mz3.com.au/html/contact_us.html) if you are ever NOR, if you can email me a contact number I will give you a call.

Regards

Doug

Hi Adam, your not alone!!! There are plenty of perth guys here, Im also looking at converting the x2 mill to cnc, Have already built a cnc router.

Michael

Hi Kipper, Xasertech (Adam), Holycross and mkc2

I have been busy the last few days but have just had a look at Kippers gallery. Superb work. Very impressed with what Kipper has done on a retro cnc'd machine. Thanks Kipper and Adam for the ball screw suggestions for the HM-35.

It seems like 20dia x 5mm pitch ball screws with 2 or 3.3 : 1 timing belt reduction and a 2 to 3N.m stepper motor will be OK. I guess these are for the X and Y, what ratios and motor torques do you guys suggest for the Z and column? I have a spare license license for Bobvad V19 and the yet as unutilised Mach 3 license and several 20diax5Pitch screw offcuts so all looks good to start with a few clear weeks coming up! Would like to catch up Holycross re the Al320G project you are planning and which I need to do as well. mkc2 that is one of the tidier and finished router I have seen a - I would like to hear what software control you are using in software and what stepper drives and motors you have.

Thankyou all for all your input and good to see Perth has a CNC scene!

Regards dmenz (Doug)

Hi Doug
Some info on what im using, my drives are RTA (Italy) GMD02 which run up to 6 Amp and steppers are 5.1nm
Attached are the spec's and you can buy local.
Software im using is mach3.

Hi Doug
Some info on what im using, my drives are RTA (Italy) GMD02 which run up to 6 Amp and steppers are 5.1nm
Attached are the spec's and you can buy local.
Software im using is mach3.

Michael, Thanks, I guess you are using Dean Walker's Automated Motion Systems, superb friendly service. I use Dean's very high quality SD motors and RTA NDC drives when I need a broad speed range. Good choice. Sounds like Mach 3 is highly regarded, I intend to try my license out this coming week. Regards Doug.