http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250306592158&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015

Does anyone have any experience with this spindle or have comment?

I have a homebrew aluminium gantry router with a 3HP round body Dewalt router for the bigger jobs but I have started to do lihtophanes in acrylic and some aluminium jobs as well so I am looking of a small powerfull highspeed spindle.

Nobody had their hands on one of these then?

If I buy one (see if I can wrestle the money off the wife) then I'll post some information.
I am going to contact the seller and see if they can provide some more pictures and info.

You are aware that you'll need a VFD to run that, right?

Gerry,

Surprisingly that listing says 'inverter/controller' included in the set.

Carry on soldier, and report back.

Yep, I missed that when I glanced through. That's a pretty good price, then.

According to the seller he is currently having the manual and spec sheet translated and will be posting this info on the auction.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for this.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/a-air-cooled-spindle-motor-1-5kw-with-a-VFD-as-a-set_W0QQitemZ250332737082QQihZ015QQcategoryZ78197QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

The seller has now loaded some more pictures, looks very interesting.

I see someone got one with high run-out, but he promised to put it right.
You could contact one of the previous sellers to find out their experience.
Al.

That's a good call AL, I think i'll do it as I am considering one of these spindles.
It looks like this is a KL-1500 cnc spindle that kelinginc use on their machines.

I see someone got one with high run-out, but he promised to put it right.
You could contact one of the previous sellers to find out their experience.
Al.

I too am considering one of these spindles, however have been bothered by the lack of experience. I contacted every user that had posted feedback for a spindle and have heard back from two.

I actually purchased the .8Kw spindles. Three of them. We have about 160 hours on the first spindle. There is no data or instructions included in the package. This is not a problem for the spindle but the features of the inverter are unavailable. Not a problem if you only want to run at one speed and don't want to be able to turn on or off remotely. We have orderd ac inverters from Automation direct. We use the spindles on an internal grinder and run at 24000 rpm. My only ***** is the collet is to be an ER 11 but the ER 11's we can buy in the states do not match the spindle nut. The included 6mm collet works fine but we need a 1/4 inch collet for our grinding pins. I have purchased an air cooled from another Ebay vendor and it was crude in comparison to the water cooled spindles. The water cooled spindles should work great for a router. The spindle is actually nothing more than a 400hz three phase 2 pole motor with a hollow shaft to accept the collet. When the bearings fail they can easly be replaced with as high a quality as you desire. If you can obtain english instructions for the inverters they are an ok value. Also if you obtain instructions please pass them on to me. I have two that are not being used for lack of instruction.

and the second member

I am still in the drawing stage for my machine and have not had time to fire up the spindle yet. The components themselves look to be of decent quality but I will not be able to give a real answer until I start cutting which should be by the end of January. I was a little unhappy with them describing the collet setup as ER20 when in fact it is an ER16 setup with a max shank size of 10mm.

You may well find the following website useful
http://www.cnc-technik-madreiter.at/

This is a European company using the 3kW version of the motor in a range of machines. This unit does have th ER20 nose if you require this. I think you may be able to get it direct from the following company ( I found them after doing some post auction research )
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/chinaflying168/offer-detailRoyQipKYXUcw/Sell-Spindle-FS-100-105-3-0KW-20-.html
You can also find these units (2.2 kW) in the States at something of a mark up from the following
http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindleandController.html
All that said the spindle appears to be in use on a number of the smaller Chinese ready built CNCs and can really only be considered a bargain at the price. I can live with the 10mm shank size for the uses I have in mind.

I received no setup instructions for the freq, however after a bit of digging I have found a PDF of the manual. You will need a braking resistor and possibly a set of HF filters, I am checking on this at the moment.

I am going to try to get a copy of this manual too and will post a copy if it do. If it is in Chinese I live with an exchange student who can translate most of the information anyways.

I am most concerned about the collet issues, i am considering the 2.2Kw spindle and would expect it to come with an ER20 collet. I messaged the manufacture.

Yes, we can grarantee that this spindle with ER20 COLLET. We have two types of collets ER16 AND ER20 for this kind of spindle motor.
We Also have 3kw water-cooled spindle, The Best price: 460.00 USD without VFD.
But the shipping cost is higher to your place: 118.00 USD because it is too weight.

I also emailed him asking about any guarantee or warranty on the spindle.

The spindle is similar to the Keling.
Yes we Guarantee on the spindle for repairing free in our domestic market.
But the shipping cost is much much higher for world shipping.
Thank you very much for your understanding!

I am finding more and more information but what bothers me is inconsistencies and things that could get lost in translation. I might try to get my room mate to email him and see if we can communicate better in native language for them, he declined providing me with a phone number because his oral English is too weak.

However what bothers me the most is this. The ebay auction for the 2.2 kw spindle states dimensions of 80x210mm, looking at the Keling website, there 2.2Kw spindle has dimensions 100x252mm. Now looking at the ebay vendors other spindle listings i see the 3kW spindle supposedly has dimensions of 100x250mm!
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-water-cooled-800w-motor-spindles-65-160mm_W0QQitemZ250333046501QQihZ015QQcategoryZ78197QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Even the made in china link posted does not have consistent information with these other listings. I just want a way to insure i will receive a 2.2Kw spindle with an ER20 collet...

So this was a long post, when your done digesting all this let me know what you think. My room mate will be back in China over the holiday break so i may want to take advantage of that to same on some shipping.

~Tyler

I just ran into a good thread over on a wood working forum, some satisfied customers and some information about the VFD's. However once again there is some talk of wrong collet sizes being received.

I think i am going to have to directly let the seller know I want an ER20 collet if / when making the purchase and have paypal back it. Anyways take a look if you want.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=75846

I have one of the 2.2 kw water cooled on order now too, after being assured it is an ER-20 collet. I"ll let you all know how it works. I didn't get his inverter, so I can get support for inverter. Probably buy from Factorymation (They're Chinese made too.....). Actually that combo is cheaper than his! I'm concerned especially about electrical interference from VFD on the xyx motion. If anyone has done an installation of this kind and can recommend paraphenelia to minimize those problems I"d love to hear about it.

Hi Folks,

interesting to know the interest around Asian spindles - I am planning to go for one before january.

Take a look at this thread
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1008

the argument about the 2.2KW spindle being 80mm dia has even baffelled me ! but any way i am going to try.

A delta make VFD js going to cost me less than a Chinese imported so I am going for it.

The way they recomend a 2.2KW VFD tells me that the spindle is not a true 2.2KW one.

anyways if it works then ok

RGDS
IRfan

Cool,

So I think this confirms my buy of a 2.2Kw with now VFD, i plan on building my own anyways. I just want the ER20 spec confirmed.

endgrainguy, not to use you as a ginue pig but i want to see you receive an ER20 colet first after being assured.

Does anyone know what size spindle waynec is using on that mech-mate forum? It looks like a smaller one, im also interested in the wiring connection, it looks like a round 4 pin connector that im hoping will be provided.

I believe the spindle that waynec is using is from HomeshopCNC (http://homeshopcnc.com/HFspindle2.html) which is rated at 2.2Kw. In fact I just received my spindle from HomeshopCNC this week. It has a 4 pin connector on the spindle and comes with the mating plug. I purchased just the spindle from HomeshopCNC. I purchased a G2 VFD from Automation Direct. (http://web2.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/AC_Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)/GS2-23P0) It will be about a month before I have my spindle in operation. I am in the process of gathering parts for my CNC build which I hope will begin around the beginning of January.

Sam
My new blog (http://www.odysseywood.us/CNC/)

Hmm ok, i guess it just looked a little small in the pictures and it didnt have the black ends.

So has anyone here received a spindle from the ebay seller that was mentioned originally in this thread. I am trying to get beyond the fact that these spindles are half the price of the Homecnc and Kelinginc ones.

It does cost $45 shipping from china but i dont understand how it can just be marked up that much.

Very interesting!

Is the rpm variable with these spindles? Do they try to hold the rpm constant?

tgrandahl
I spoke with Rick at HomeshopCNC because the spindle I received looked a little different than the photo on the website. The photo on the website is an old model the new spindles do not have the black band around the ends. The spindle I received is stamped with 2.2Kw 7.6 amps 220 volts 3 phase.

tahustvedt
The VFD allows you to vary the speed of the spindle. This can be done from the front panel of the VFD or using a 0-10v signal fed to the VFD.

Sam

Ok. Thanks.

Well the cost is all in the bearings - if you put in ceramic P4 bearings then the cost of the bearings is as much as the spindle!

its all a bit of compromise I think.

I just ordered a 2.2KW 8 AMPs from HK - China - cost me around 300USD, I am assuming it has steel ball bearing - ones those give up I need to move em upto something better P4 graded.

after all routers screaming at 24K rpm dont have ceramic ball bearing.

so I am assuming its worth a try.

I have ordered a Delta VFD to run the spindle.

RGD
Irfan

This one is 1.5kw (2hp) water cooled, ER16 nose, 24000rpm, 400hz.

I use a Hitachi SJ200 VFD. It was only a little more money than a Chinese one and I decided to go this way.

I use a Homman Designs DigiSpeed to interface the control to Mach3. Works a treat.

It leaked a little water when I got it. Easily fixed. But the water leaked in a way that it went past the bearings. Will it reduce the life of the bearings? I don't know.

Another user here in Aus. got one with one winding shorted to the case. Again easily fixed but that is sometimes what you get from China.

Overall I am very happy with it. I would definitely buy one again.

Greg

Well the cost is all in the bearings - if you put in ceramic P4 bearings then the cost of the bearings is as much as the spindle!

its all a bit of compromise I think.

I just ordered a 2.2KW 8 AMPs from HK - China - cost me around 300USD, I am assuming it has steel ball bearing - ones those give up I need to move em upto something better P4 graded.

after all routers screaming at 24K rpm dont have ceramic ball bearing.

so I am assuming its worth a try.

I have ordered a Delta VFD to run the spindle.

RGD
Irfan

Hmm so can someone breakout the benefits of ceramic vs. steel bearings in this case (ebay chinees vs. homeshopcnc / others). I would imagine it would have to do mostly with efficiency(heat), duty cycle, and lifetime. Because i am simply building a hobby machine that wont be running 24x7. Is it worth twice the price?

I am assuming there is no difference in noise level, most router noise comes from the brushes and commutator.

I am looking forward to seeing some comparisons between the spindles from different sources once these are all up and running. Can anyone that has one running already compare to say a porter-cable or other routers when cutting?

The actual makita router I am presetnly running on my CNC cost me around INR 16000.00,

thats like 16000/48 = 333.33 USD, thats more expensive than a cheaply available chinese spindle without a vfd.

the difference in using steel ball bearing and ceramic is life of the bearings. If you dont mind replacing the steel ball bearings say every 4 months in a heavy duty work environment then I feel its more worth than the ceramic bearings which sometimes cost as much as the whole spindle itself.

In a home environment you probably may use a 1.5KW spindle - is usually worth the minimal noise it produces.

I am no expert here - so dont go here by my word.

RGDS
Irfan

I wish it used ER20 collets instead of ER11. I want to use up to 12 mm and 1/2" shank end mills and don't want a watercooled machine.

Try this website

http://www.protec.com.cn/Product.asp?BigClassName=Electro%20Spindle

bit expensive - but very good quality I feel.

RGDS
Irfan

thats like 16000/48 = 333.33 USD, thats more expensive than a cheaply available chinese spindle without a vfd.


In a home environment you probably may use a 1.5KW spindle - is usually worth the minimal noise it produces.


RGDS
Irfan

Irfan.. u have 1 US$ =48 Indian Rupees...look at us we have 1US$= 78 Pakistani Rupees..bad economy here:(...
U are using Makita router that cost u 16000Indian rupees and I am using cheap chinese router without any trouble with cost 2600pakistani rupees... so in this way atleast i am cost effective;)

Now if u buy Chinese Spindle then please share the experience with it...if it is air cooled u have to get some cool air small plant, and if it is water cooled again some sort of arrangment... u have shop of Isaac Winfred near u, can u tell us what is the noise their, i think he is using same type of chinese spindle...

Regards

the difference in using steel ball bearing and ceramic is life of the bearings. If you dont mind replacing the steel ball bearings say every 4 months in a heavy duty work environment then I feel its more worth than the ceramic bearings which sometimes cost as much as the whole spindle itself.

In a home environment you probably may use a 1.5KW spindle - is usually worth the minimal noise it produces.


Ok so in a light duty environment with just weekend use its probably more like 4 years i assume, and that's fine with me.

I am still up in the air of buying a 1.5Kw or the 2.2Kw spindle, I will be cutting a lot of aluminum and other light metals. Where can i find some good info on choosing the right spindle size for cutting depth, ipm, tooling size etc. I am considering the 3Kw just for the colet size right now.

Issac is using 1.5KW air cooled spindle. It not only being cost effective- to some extent it is also the quality -

I just dont want to start a debate on the routers here - it s topic on Chinese spindles :)

RGDS
IRfan

I am considering the 3Kw just for the colet size right now.

The 2.2 I ordered has a ER20 collet.

RGDS
IRfan

Ok so i just bought a 2.2Kw spindle from "linearmotionbearings2008", i dont see how it could not be worth it, he guaranteed me the er20 colet.

Ok so i just bought a 2.2Kw spindle from "linearmotionbearings2008", i dont see how it could not be worth it, he guaranteed me the er20 colet.
Let us know how it works for you. I'm thinking of getting two of those for the router I'll be building next year.

I will get some pictures and info up as soon as it gets here. I am finally going to start building my machine this Saturday! So i may not get down to playing with the spindle for a few weeks but i will update as much as i can. I am really excited about these cheep spindles for hobby machines.

Hi Guys
I checked out 'linearmotionbearings2008' 2.2kW spindle and VFD and it looks OK but I'm tipping the duty cycle and the warranty are not what you would expect when paying $570 USD. The way I see it when you are willing to invest big 'hobby cnc' bucks you would expect mid range performance and hope it would last 12 months at least with a few hours of continual use day in day out. I'll email 'linearmotionbearings2008' and see what he has to say.
Cheers
Derek

I really dont know about how good they are - but my friend runs a cnc router shop with 2 1.5kw aircooled spindles which were active for 2 years before bearing change was required.

He uses them atleast 8 hrs daily - with one weekly off on Sunday.

RGDS
IRfan

Issac is using 1.5KW air cooled spindle. It not only being cost effective- to some extent it is also the quality -

I just dont want to start a debate on the routers here - it s topic on Chinese spindles :)

RGDS
IRfan
Okay.. What is the model no. u ordered???how much that cost u!!!... what accessories along with it!!! and offcourse do they give any warranty period?

Hi Guys

He did respond and stated 12 month warranty with free repair.

Cheers

Derek

Hi Guys

He did respond and stated 12 month warranty with free repair.

Cheers

Derek

Interesting, did he give you any other details on the warranty?

Hi tgrandahl

He also stated (in not so many words) that postage is at the buyers cost for repairs. This is typical with most manufacturers. The closer you live the lower the postage cost.

I also checked out his feedback and it is high. One guy complained about a run out of 0.2mm and the seller said he would replace (not repair) at no cost.

Cheers

I have just received a 2,2KW version . I bought the one without drive, since I allready have a GE Fuji 300E$. It seems that I have run into a problem.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250339537581

My drive works great on a 1KW 3-phase motor. This is a large diameter motor with low RPM.

When I connect the spindle I get it to spin up to around 30HZ, but then the Amps rises high 20A, and the drive will not take the frequency higher. It's difficult to describe, but it makes an uneven high pitched "stalling" sound. I have heard the same from brushless motors for model airplanes, when the ESC can't get the motor to start properly.

Is it possible that my drive is unable to start the spindle? I have tried different settings, but can't find the right one. I hope you got some insight.

Things I have checked:
- Reset the drive to factory default, and run auto tuning
- There is no short circuit to the motor case.
- I have tried different accelleration times on the drive.
- I have measured the resistance between each phase to around 1,3 ohms.

PDF document for Fuji drive: http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/Installation%20and%20Instruction%7CGEI-100211G%7Cgeneric

Jan,

Have you setup the VFD for auto tuning?

What size wire is connected to the spindle and how long is it?

Jeff...

Hi Jeff,

First i reset the drive to default, then i ran auto tuning as described in the manual. I never get any error-messages, but the motor stalls at 15-20 Hz, and get warm in a couple of seconds.

The wires I use is 1,5 mm2 (approx 15 AWG) and 40cm long.

Jan

The default frequency settings need to be adjusted to 400hz

Also adjust 87 88 89 motor amp capacity.

There are several other settings that need to be adjusted from the base default.


Jeff...

Thanks to linearmotionbearings2008 and Jeff for pointing me in the right direction here. Now it is as smooth as silk :)

Happy New Year to you all!

Jan,

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner with additional settings.

If you get time you might document them for other Zone members.

Happy to hear you solved it.

Jeff...

Is it necessary to ground the spindle itself? (I'll be running the 2.2 KW , 400 HZ, 8 amp 220V spindle from Chinese Ebay vendor, running this with a Hitachi SJ200-015NFU VFD with single phase 220 input.) If so, where on the spindle do I attach the groud wire to? Should this ground wire (if required) be one of the conducters in the shielded cable, or a seperate bare or insulated wire? Thanks! Al Ladd www.alladd.com

I just ordered a 2.2kw spindle from our friendly neighborhood chinese ebay seller! I'm really exited to see this spindle at such a great price. I also ordered the VFD from another seller as well. Total cost including shipping for the spindle and VFD came to about $635!! You cannot beat that! The only parts I am missing now is how to incorporate this setup with my Techno LC4896.

Oh and I also have to find a good water pump and hoses. Any suggestions?

Al Ladd,

All of the spindles I have seen have a ground wire that attaches to the outside case or "tube" of the spindle.

The ground wire is one of the four wires that also feeds power to the spindle.

One of the four terminal connections on the spindle should be ground.

Check each terminal with a ohm meter, between the spindle "tube" and the ground terminal it should have continuity.

The three "3" phase terminals will have continuity between each other.

I am guessing pin 4 is the ground, however if it has no connection to the spindle "tube" I would suggest attaching a ground wire to the spindle mounting bracket.

See the attached Keling "Chinese" spindle diagram.

Hope this helps.

Jeff...

can anyone with a 2.2Kw spindle comment on the dimensions, i haven't received me yet but i am working on designing my Z, it would be helpful to know if the (80x215mm) listed is correct and measured from what to what.

The 215 mm is top of top plate to top of beveled aluminum cap peice at business end. The shaft with collet extends another 1.75" or so to the top of the collet and collet nut. The wiring connector extends about 1 5/16 in the middle of the top, unlike most routers , where the wiring goes off to the side. This is all an issue for me, as my spindle can be tilted to horizontal for joinery work, and the extra length is a problem. These did seem to be the shortest of the Chinese spindles capable of handling 1/2" cutters, -- in fact the shortest HF spindle of any origin. 80 mm diameter is correct, also an asset for fitting into the space I have for spindle.
I"m goping to mount it in a K2 Hitachi router mount, shimming it about 1/16all the way around. My plan is to use rubber sheet or polyurethane sheet for the shimming. Is this a bad idea?
Thanks Al and others for wiring help. It has just three connectors for wires, so I guess I"m on my own for attaching the ground. I"ll post my finished assembly when I get it working, hopefully next week.

Do these drive come with the connector or does he have them available? Or is it a standard connector that we can easily get in North America. I am thinking of getting an 800 watt version to use on my Taig.

Hi,

The connector is supplied with the spindle. The wires to the drive must be soldered on to the connector.

So i just got my spindle and my first impressions are pretty good, i would say better than i expected. I purchased mine from the eBay seller and had it shipped directly from china.

My one concern would be the collets, the included one says 1/2" on it but it is measuring a bit under. Is this normal? Where have you all been buying smaller collets from. I think i should be picking up a 1/4" and 1/8" collets, anybody try a drill chuck in one of these dont think 6-24K rpm would go over to well.

Do these drive come with the connector or does he have them available? Or is it a standard connector that we can easily get in North America. I am thinking of getting an 800 watt version to use on my Taig.

Yeah the connector for mine was wrapped up in what i thought was just part of the packaging, i almost threw it out!

Ill try to post up some pictures later.

Hi all,

I am really interested in seeing and hearing a video of one of these spindles in action.
Any chance anyone could point me to one, or post one. I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

Andy

Just ran motor test. Only let it run at high speed for as few seconds, slowly increasing the speed, as the little aquarium pump I have set up only sends about 3-4 gallons an hour through the spinddle, about 1/6 th to 1/2 of what seems to be recommended.I'm running the 24,000 RPM 2.2 KW , 400 HZ, 8 amp 220V spindle from Chinese Ebay vendor, running this with a Hitachi SJ200-015NFU VFD with single phase 220 input. A couple things to verify: I should set base frequency at 400 right? and motor is two pole? Set current to 8 or maybe a bit more, like 9.5? It generates overcurrent error message on deceleration. The accel and decel settings are still the defaults now, maybe not appropriate for high frequency spindle. Can anyone recommend proper ramp up and decel settings for such a spindle? Bearings might be a bit knocky, (irregular little knocking sound)or is this not unusual for a new spindle, or for a spindle period, since you can actually hear little noises a router would totally drown out? I can see where it's quiet operation is a bit of a safety hazard, as its hard to see that the bit is actually spinning, and the noise doesn't signify running motor to one used to a router!

Just ran motor test. Only let it run at high speed for as few seconds, slowly increasing the speed, as the little aquarium pump I have set up only sends about 3-4 gallons an hour through the spinddle, about 1/6 th to 1/2 of what seems to be recommended.I'm running the 24,000 RPM 2.2 KW , 400 HZ, 8 amp 220V spindle from Chinese Ebay vendor, running this with a Hitachi SJ200-015NFU VFD with single phase 220 input. A couple things to verify: I should set base frequency at 400 right? and motor is two pole? Set current to 8 or maybe a bit more, like 9.5? It generates overcurrent error message on deceleration. The accel and decel settings are still the defaults now, maybe not appropriate for high frequency spindle. Can anyone recommend proper ramp up and decel settings for such a spindle? Bearings might be a bit knocky, (irregular little knocking sound)or is this not unusual for a new spindle, or for a spindle period, since you can actually hear little noises a router would totally drown out? I can see where it's quiet operation is a bit of a safety hazard, as its hard to see that the bit is actually spinning, and the noise doesn't signify running motor to one used to a router!

I second the request for a video, just something quick so we can hear the sound your describing.

My 2.2KW spindle came with only 3 pins on the connector, numbered 1,2 and 3. Does the connector diagram shown earlier in this thread apply to the numbered pins on the three prong spindle plug? Does anybody have any experience with this different connector?

Hmmm Sounds like the cheep chineese spindles are doing ok.. Might want to get one for a backup to my Ekstrom carlson.

Far as the overcurrent on braking. With my Automation direct VFD I also got the load resistor which is used to control breaking current. Far as I know having this added on is a good idea how ever with a spindle of this size could be considered overkill as I would think the standard internals of the VFD could handle the brake current on it's own. Course I ramp mine from speed to stop in 8 seconds and like that so it might be good to have. Mostly having the resistor is important for fast brake ramps and to slow the tool fast enough if you have a tool changer to be sure it's stopped or large diameter tooling which spins longer after power off.

b.

I'm wondering about the parameters for water cooling. The number 8 gallons of water per hour has been thrown out, (perhaps via Homesshop CNC's spindle?) but doesn't this depend on the starting temperature of the cooling water, and won't this change over time as the water heats up? It will depend on reservoir size, and the configuration of the cooling system (a radiator would help a lot.) The submerged pump I use is 30 or so watts, so it in its self is a water heater. I guess if one knew what temperature the water leaving the spindle shouldn't exceed that would help, or maybe a physical indicator of how hot the spindle near the bearings should feel. Simply giving a flow per unit of time doesn't seem sufficient, or am I worrying too much here?

As to previous posts questions numbers on the prongs should correspond to the numbers on the VFD power out lugs carrying the three phase power. You'll also want a ground wire somewhere electrically connected to the spindle body to the VFD grounding lug. Now that I have settings correct, I can start and stop the spindle in less than 5 seconds each --no braking resistor required for stops that fast, though I get trips if I try to stop faster than 4 seconds. This will likely vary with different VFD's. Mine is the 2 HP Hitachi SJ200-015NFU.

I would think that the spindle itself could take a bit of heat before running into trouble.

I'm almost ready to fire mine up for the first time! I have a few more things to do. I have to run a new electrical line from the house box and I'm waiting for wire and a water pump to come.

Speaking of pumps and water cooling, I have a 4'X8' router table where it takes 20ft of hose to make it to the spindle and 20ft back again. I have 1/8" id tube right now but I don't think I can push enough water through it because I had a hard time blowing air. I'm thinking of going to 1/2" tube but that is still a long run. The pump is said to have a 4' head. Any suggestions on which way to proceed?

Hi

Just wondering if some of you would post pictures of your spindle cooling systems and a description of the various parts.

Thanks

Andy

Holy Cow!

Late last night I ran the spindle for the first time! It took about 2 min. to program the VFD. The spindle spins up in 5-7 seconds and it is soooo much smoother and quieter than the PC router that came with the gantry. It also feels beefier and more controlled. I am happy with the spindle I have so far and am looking forward to integrating it with the proprietary Techno electronics.

I have not run the spindle longer than about 5 min for lack of a pump to push water yet. I am afraid of overheating the bearings without the mass of the water there to cool them.

I took a look at the Mech Mate web site for cooling options. They have some good ideas with small radiators, but they look like more work/weight/cost on the gantry than what we need.

look at this page

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933&page=2

tubes have been routed thru the cable carrier.

There are available a few ready made coolers (in a box) from the spindle suppliers - if you enquire.

I will bu working on mine soon.

RGDS
IRfan

Hello..

Perhaps would recomend looking into pumps from a company named flojet. they make water pumps like you would use in a motorhome. In anycase perhaps not the cheepest but they can makey plenty of pressure don't need to be submersed (ie don't heat the water on their own). I've used a couple of them for radiator load cooling projects pumping water through some pretty tight passages and they worked very good.

Think they make AC versions as well

I've used this pump http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100538841&N=10000003+90401

for pumping coolant to a cold saw blade. But it does not make much pressure so pumping as far as it would have to for this I don't think would work.

For Radiators go here http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp They have a LOT of different off the shelf radiators kids are using for cooling their overclocked gaming processors. Their unpainted pro radiators are like 19 bucks and will pull a lot of heat.. Couple with one of their plastic shrouds and a small fan and it would pull alot of heat.

They also have Reservoirs to so you can have a closed system rather then having an open one with a submersible pump .

b./

Do you know the Flow rate for this pump?

http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindle.html

I have a 1/12 hp circulator from a furnace install laying around. I think I'll try that with a 5 gal. bucket. I'll let you know how well it works.

It didn't work. Instead I took the aquarium pump that I have and put it into a gallon water jug. I mounted the water jug on one of the legs of the gantry. It was a perfect fit! I cut out 3 ft of lift and 20 ft of tubing from the pump head. I taped up the opening and did some tests to see if the water would spill out. Finally I did a quick flow test. The water just trickled out through the return hose. I then did some testing to see if the spindle would get hot. I've been running the router at what I believe to be 13000 RPM for the past 3 hours under a load. The router does not even get above room temp!

I have stronger pump on order and I think I'll see if I can reduce the amount of water in the reservoir without effecting the heat.

The spindle cuts real nice and is really quiet compared to the PC router I had. Overall I am happy with the spindle and I am thinking of getting a smaller one for my smaller fixed gantry router. I'll try and post pics or a movie when I have more time.

How about some pictures :)

Do you have to sign up with ebay.co. uk? Or is there a way to do it from the us ebay?

Check out the link below for pics!
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/5384/size/big/ppuser/51195

http://stores.ebay.com/linearmotionbearings

Our suppliers Deitech sent me the pictures of the interiors of their coolers. with their permission I am posting the pictures here.

for more information email deitechcontrol at gmail dot com

I will build one based on this -

hope this helps -

RGDS
Irfan

That's a pretty big radiator! I wonder what kind of pump they are using?

think its a pump with flexible impeller - thats what Gerald at Mechmate forum mentioned.

RGDS
Irfan

I'm interested in swapping my PC 890 for a spindle, mostly for noise control. The router is spec'd as a 2.25 HP (peak), but 12A*120V = 1440W, or more like 1.9 HP. Regardless, it seems like a 1.5kW or 2.2kW spindle would be a reasonable replacement.

Mainly I am doing light duty work where power needs are modest. In most cases, I'm taking very light cuts so the 890 is already plenty. My preference would be for an air cooled spindle. I often run 1/2" shank bits, so I would need a collet system that supports that. I believe the ER20 is a good choice, as ER11 seems too small for that.

My understanding is that the runout specs on these units are fairly good (.005 mm), much better or certainly as good as the router - which I have found to be very usable.

Thanks for any advice.

Steve

I have yet to see a 1.5KW spindle from china with a ER20 collet or a 2.2KW spindle that is air cooled. The benefit of the water cooled 2.2KW is that it's much quieter than even my super quiet Hitachi router.

Just my opinion which you can read and discard as you choose. :)

Can't help thinking people are complicating something that is simple. With gantry mounted radiators, expensive pumps, large diameter tubing, etc.

You can read all I know of thermal dynamics on the back of a weaties packet so I will quote Gerald D,

"If your water flow fills a beer glass in a whole minute, the water temp will not rise more than 20C [36F] while cooling a 3kW [5HP] spindle that is
only 80% efficient and running under full load. . . . if my memory of thermal calcs still serves me right. . . . "

My experience with a 1.5kw chinese spindle backs this up. You don't need a great deal of coolant flow.

My small pump pushes coolant through 10 meters of 1/4" ID tubing (5m up and 5m back) at 700ml/min. 24 fl/oz

The spindle has never got more than mildly warm. Just taken the chill off it.

IMO chasing high flow with fancy pumps, large diameter tubing, short runs (gantry mounted), fan cooled radiators etc is just overkill.

Moderate flow will do, coupled with a good sized heat sink. 2 or 3 gallons of coolant.

KISS principal comes into play here.

Good sized reservoir, somewhere out of the way. (not travelling on the gantry)
Cheap plastic 1/4" tubing. Easily replaced if it looses it's suppleness after a year or two.
Can be routed in existing cable management system (cable chain).
Good quality larger sized aquarium pump.

One thing I will add to that is it probably should have a flow sensor which will trigger a fault
in the controller (Stop spindle and motion) if pump stops while machine is untended.

But this goes for any system, simple or complicated.

There you go. Just my 2c worth.

Greg

Hi Greg - I completely agree with what you have said.

can you guide us to a proper flow sensor -

RGDS
Irfan

I did say "probably should have a flow sensor" :o

I don't have one.

Greg

Well Greg - so is this available to be purchased on the internet? lets find one so that atleast this switch can be used to prevent any burnouts - i will start searching for one :)
and keep you guys posted.

RGDS
IRfan

I found one here (http://www.multitechdevices.com/flow-switches.html#miniature) in India

I basically agree. The one problem with the ones on Ebay now (I have one) is the connectors call for 3/16" id tubing, which is pretty small. The passage through the spindle is a significant bottleneck, and even larger aquarium pumps, (I'm using this one http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?language=en&currency=USD&products_id=2999 can only get about 8 OZ minute flow through the spindle using about 10 foot loop of 3/16" id tubing. So I did the same thing that PPLUG apparently did, using a coupler to switch to larger ID tubing (I switched to 3/8 ID) for most of the run. i found some suitable couplers at Mcmaster that make the transition in one small light weight brass piece. That upped my flow to about 20 OZ/ minute, about the recommended level. At up to about 21,00 RPM the generated heat is small, and even the smaller flow rate didin't result in heat easily discernable in the exiting water, let alone on the spindle body itself. But at full 24 k the water starts to become clearly warm, about body temperature, and higher flow rate makes a difference, so I went with the bigger diameter tubing. The spindle body still got no more than just faintly warm. The tubing couplers makes me nervous, as it is potentially leaky, and the couplers I used Mcmaster part# 44555K187 are rated to only 75 degrees, though at 100 pounds of pressure. I added a few wraps of electrical tape over them as insurance. Can anyone siuggest a better wrap over them? I shopuld add that the noise level of the spindle is delightfully low. One can carry on a conversation over it at full RPM. I still haven't done any heavy work with it, but in tests it seems like it doesn't balk at the deepest cuts I dared to try with my Bosch 12 amp router, and so these cuts are visibly smoother than when done by the complaining router.

Here is the flow switch I purchased for my spindle. I do not have my spindle installed yet. I am building a 5' x 10' CNC router on which to install my 2.2KW spindle. A heart attack 4 weeks ago brought the build to a stop for a little while.
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=3277833
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/large_images/3277836.jpg

The one problem with the ones on Ebay now (I have one) is the connectors call for 3/16" id tubing, which is pretty small.


Yeah I have the same connectors. But you will be surprised, if you try hard enough you will get 1/4" ID tubing onto them.

Takes a bit of effort to get the nuts onto the tube. I actually drilled the nuts out just slightly. :)

Greg

If you hit the end of the tubing with a heat gun and twist it onto the fitting quickly it's much easier.

What about a coolant system like this? Not too bad a price.

http://grizzly.com/products/7-Gallon-Coolant-Tank-System/H8140

What about a coolant system like this? Not too bad a price.

http://grizzly.com/products/7-Gallon-Coolant-Tank-System/H8140

It's almost half the cost of the spindle??

I purchased a 2.2kW spindle and VFD last Thursday, and it arrived today. That's very fast service.

The VFD is a Huanyang HY02D223B, and unfortunately (for me) the manual is completely written in Chinese.

Can anyone give me a quick tutorial (here or offline) on this unit? Hopefully I can get a translated copy of the manual, but in the meantime I'd like to give it a quick test and make sure things are working correctly.

Thanks!

Steve

Steve,

I don't think this will help much however its a start.

http://www.china-hy.com/index.php

Jeff...

Here is a wiring diagram I was provided with.

E goes to ground
U, V, W go to pins 1, 2, 3 on the spindle - no problems here
R, S, T - not sure
P, N - guessing that is 110V/110V (220V single phase inputs)
all the other inputs are for controlling the VFD

The diagram shows P, N, but the actual VFD has inputs for P+ and PR, so it's a little confusing. My last electronics course was over 20 years ago, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Steve

I would love to see some video and audio of these spindle and maybe a before and after video clip of cutting the same part to listen to noise
reduction...

Would be interested i listen to how quite they run with better bears verse some that hase std bearsings?

Sorry, I can't do a comparison for you, but I can guarantee you that it is significantly quieter than a Porter-Cable 7518 at low and especially high speeds. I will be posting some videos soon.


BTW... I have the standard bearings in my spindle.

I will report back when I have actually connected my spindle and VFD, but here are the numbered connections from the seller. Anyone out there done this successfully?

Steve

1) R (L) to 110V single phase
2) S to 110V single phase
3) T (N) to neutral
4) P+
5) PR
6) U to motor pin 1
7) V to motor pin 2
8) W to motor pin 3
9) E to ground

Preface, I did not read any of the linked documents, just sharing my interpretation/ opinions on the wiring diagram.

Typically R,S,T designates three phase incoming supply. Sometimes marked as L1,L2,L3 or A,B,C. Occassionally U1, V1, W1, when the outputs are U2, V2, W2. I have no experience or knowledge of 110Vac inverters, so typically three phase voltage start low end around 220V and go up. You need to confirm the model number to document specifications on voltage requirements to be sure. When a drive is marketed as a single or three phase unit, no derating is necessary, and typically the 3-phase voltage would be the same as single phase voltage requirement, e.g. 220V. The diagram would imply that in 220V single phase supply you would only connect supply voltage to R and T. Of course the manual should give you more info as to whether a jumper from Sto either R or T is required.

The P and N, really need to read the manual to clarify. My interpretration would be the (P)ositive and (N)egative connections to a power or braking resistor, if needed for your application for rapid spindle decel.

Further clarification, RST is likely a soft reset after a drive fault.

Im planning on buy a spindle in within the next year or so

I would like to make a diy automatic tool changer... most of my router bit will be
1/2 shanks or 1/4 inch.... what collet best suits these bits as well as a..atc setup? i see the cnczone diy atc...im not sure if it will work with this type of spindle

Hello Eloid

I am an old chippy who hates noise, on my cnc router I have had a Makita trimmer and a Triton 1/2" router, in the end I made a 25mm thick double glazed box around the router to keep the noise in, even with that you needed ear muffs when the router/s were running no load, I bought a 2.2Kw ER20 Collet spindle and took the box away and can stand within 1m of the spindle and talk to someone next to me without shouting or ringing in my ears.

Without a Db meter I can't quantify how much quieter a spindle is but it is much quieter, is also seems quieter when cutting, better bearings??? don't know, it may only be subjective.

Ed

Hello Eloid

I am an old chippy who hates noise, on my cnc router I have had a Makita trimmer and a Triton 1/2" router, in the end I made a 25mm thick double glazed box around the router to keep the noise in, even with that you needed ear muffs when the router/s were running no load, I bought a 2.2Kw ER20 Collet spindle and took the box away and can stand within 1m of the spindle and talk to someone next to me without shouting or ringing in my ears.

Without a Db meter I can't quantify how much quieter a spindle is but it is much quieter, is also seems quieter when cutting, better bearings??? don't know, it may only be subjective.

Ed

i dont doubt its quieter..love to see some video to seee and hear
somebodies setup

Hi everyone
I already installed the spindle and VFD, I am using Mach3, PMDX 122 and PMDX106 as the spindle control card, I am able to get the spindle running manually but cannot get past the message 'PWM bumped to minimum' when i want to use Mach3, I have set base freq with incriments from zero to 400, how do i get rid of "pwm bumped to minimum"

Help is appreciated

Kaartman,

Have you seen this:

Jeff...

Hi Jeff
Yes i have seen this,(PMDX 106 manual) I did not use the Mach calibration, I used the trimpots, do you suggest that I delete this file to get rid of the "PWM bumped to minimum"
Regards

Is Mach3 spindle configured for step direction?

These are my screen shots, i have changed it so manny times im sure it is way wrong

Kaartman,

Motor control should be on step direction.

Jeff...

Hi,

On your screen shots, you have your minimum PWM set to 30%. So if the spindle it turned on and the speed setting is less than 30% of your maximum speed, the speed will be bumped to this minimum value of 30%

Cheers,

Peter.


Hi everyone
I already installed the spindle and VFD, I am using Mach3, PMDX 122 and PMDX106 as the spindle control card, I am able to get the spindle running manually but cannot get past the message 'PWM bumped to minimum' when i want to use Mach3, I have set base freq with incriments from zero to 400, how do i get rid of "pwm bumped to minimum"

Help is appreciated

Hi everyone
This is what I want to get to work, PMDX122, Pmdx 106, Andeli VFD with a 2.2Kw water cooled spindle and Mach 3, VerR2.63. I can switch the spindle on at the remote operators panel with a switch and set the speed with the potentiometer, I have also set the Manual/auto switch to Auto that will allow the computer to control the spindle. This is what I accomplished today, did get Mach3 not to show me the ”PWM bumped to minimum”
if I want to control my spindle with PWM then I should tick PWM control in spindle setup???? Picture this and please tell me the mistakes,
PMDX 122 Pin 14 connect to PMDX 106 Dir in
PMDX 122Pin 16 connect toPMDX 106 PWM in


Output signal
output# 5" Port 1: Pin14: Active Low enable

Spindle setup
CW M3 Output #5: Use spindle motor control :PWM Control

Motor output
Step pin16: Dir Pin14: Dir active: step low activ: Step port 1: Dir Port 1

I calibrated the spindle with the trim pots on the PMDX 106 Max speed is set at 400Hz@ 24000rpm minimum speed trim pot is set full anti clock wise and the spindle is still turning at 100Hz, rpm of more than 3600.
Here I am lost like most of the time; I have selected Pin 16 at motor control as Step because of the PWM output on the Pmdx 122 and Pin 14 for direction at motor control because of the connection between the two cards. At Spindle setup: PWM base Freq ………and and Min PWM…… % suggestions on values please.
With these settings, if I activate M3 or F5 I hear an relay activates and when I M5 a relay activates again but no spindle turn,
Review and feedback of the above essay will be appreciated

Kaartman,

Motor control should be on step direction.

Jeff...

Hallo Jeff
How would PWM control the spindle then, is the ports and pins correct in the motor setup?

I just looked in the Mach manual, and it says PWM output is on the spindle STEP pin, not the direction pin as you have it.

Kaartman,

The attached link is a very good read even though it is not the same board you are using.

http://www.campbelldesigns.net/files/Mach3%20spindle%20control.pdf

As long as your parallel port pins match the ones you assign for spindle control it will work, you can choose whatever pins are open 'not assigned to any other device'

Jeff...

As usual GER21 fills in the blanks with awesome information.

Jeff...

what chuck are available for automatic tool changers that would fits the types of spindles... I have see the tapper type see attachment...
but do u need a adpater for it.... ?
anyone having info on diy atc or any way to use these standard chucks with
these spindles pls reply

The spindle itself must be an ATC spindle, you can't just add a collet to do it. Plan on spending $5000 or more.

What I have learned about Chinese stuff:

Sorry for breaking in here. Hear my tale and afterwards I think you'll better understand how it relates to you.

We build motor drives and they require printed circuit boards. The accepted method of getting bare boards is you design a circuit, do the board layout and convert the results to gerber files. You can send these files to anywhere in the world and get finished, bare printed circuit boards in return (3 weeks in quantity).

Like everyone else, we saw Chinese prices were hard to beat. In fact they can't be beaten. We picked carefully for quality and took the plunge; we ordered.

The first lot of boards were of an OK or slightly better quality. We used them up and ordered more. The next lot looked like they were done by Neanderthals using stone tools. Same board house, different results.

We changed vendors several times and got the same results. First lot bad, first lot good, second lot,.. you know the story; it didn't matter. I finally posted to an SMT forum and asked why the inconsistency of the product? A knowledgeable person replied and he explained the mystery:

China is a developing country. Wages are very low for unskilled people and much higher when they acquire skills. The products sold here at low, bargain prices are based on these unskilled wages. So what happens is an unskilled worker is hired and taught in-hose the skills required for the job. Problem is, the skills learned increase the person's marketability but his job won't pay more. The person then leaves for a better paying job and the employer hires another, fresh, unskilled person to replace him.

So it seems the good boards we got were from personnel who writing their resumes while the bad lots we got were from those who replaced them. And so it goes.

How does our experience affect you? The lowest price and glowing specifications paper over the consequences of a work-force in social flux. You will get the low price but the product may, or often not, meet the glowing specifications. Pay 20% more and get what you want at the quality you expect from someplace other than China.

What did we do? We pay 20% more to have our bare boards come from Taiwan. They did the 'developing country' stuff in the '70s and are finished now with that. The prices are high enough there that vendor companies retain skilled staff and their combined experience shows up in excellent and consistent quality control.

So why don't we buy boards from US vendors? Same reason we don't buy them from Japanese or EU vendors. We have in the past; they were overpriced (>200%) and quality control approached Chinese levels in some circumstances. Long-time developed countries are saddled with high taxes, unions, onerous environmental restrictions and generally have a declining work ethic workforce.

There. I think I have insulted numerous nationalities (including my own) but it is reality.

Mariss

Looks like we are doomed in all directions. Makes one wonder what happened to all those ISO Standards. Another make work project?
George

You might like this. It is documented fact. You want ISO9000 standards? A $1.98 gets you a rubber stamp in China. You stamp what you make with it. Instant standards without the mess and bother of actually meeting those standards. It sits right next to the stamp that says "Inspected by ...". :-)

Mariss

You might like this. It is documented fact. You want ISO9000 standards? A $1.98 gets you a rubber stamp in China. You stamp what you make with it. Instant standards without the mess and bother of actually meeting those standards. It sits right next to the stamp that says "Inspected by ...". :-)

Mariss

That same stamp costs the same price in the USA. Just look at the auto industry there. :-)

It's not the stamp that determines the quality, but the ethics of the company management behind it.

As an example take the GFS (Global Financial Crisis). For years The big end of town has been warning us of how the Unions will destroy the economy. Yet, the Big end of town has completely crippled the world economy, far worse than any union could have.



Cheers,

Peter.

Interesting discussion, but back to Chinese spindles/VFD combinations...

Ok - some success!

We wired the inputs R & S for the two 110V "hot" leads, and connected the ground to pin 9. The motors went U, V, W to pins 1, 2, 3 (soldered). The VFD/spindle appears to be working quite nicely, and I'm able to control forward/reverse, and vary the output from 1 Hz to 400 Hz.

The spindle is VERY quiet. The small 24VDC cooling fan in the VFD is louder than the spindle, even at 24K RPM. I have not installed this on my CNC machine, or hooked up any water cooling yet, but so far it looks very promising. I am hoping to receive a translated manual, but the Hitachi X200 manual was very helpful in terms of installation and basic functionality.

Thanks for all the help.

Steve

They sure do beat a router don't they!

What I have learned about Chinese stuff:

Sorry for breaking in here. Hear my tale and afterwards I think you'll better understand how it relates to you.


Thanks for the post.:)

Hi all,

Anyone have any experience cutting Aluminium with one of these 2.2kw spindles and would care to comment?

Does anyone know the specs on the bearings used?

Any information appreciated :)

John

Wattage question ?
Ok, I see the 1500W and the 2200W and now the 3000W units on Ebay.
But were I get lost is, my understanding of wattage was Volts X Amps
the 2200W unit say 220Volt and 8 Amps weel that is only 1760 Watts?
Am i missing something ?
I want to buy one, but something does not add up.

Thanks in advance
Curtis

The spindles are 3 phase so to calculate watts the formula is.

Volts * amps * (Sqrt3) * Power Factor

The power factor can vary but most use .80 as and average. The 2.2KW spindle that I have is stamped 220 Volts 7.6 Amps so if we use these numbers here is what we get.

Sqrt3 = 1.732

220 * 7.6 * 1.732 * .80 = 2316 or 2.3KW

If the power factor is .76 we come out to 2.2Kw

Hope this helps

Hey guys,
what do you think about this as a coolant pump for the motor????Its a condensate pump for home air conditioners.It has a float that turns off the pump when the level gets too low.Maybe this switch can be wired to Mach3 to indicate no coolant flow?the specs look good enough for the job?:confused:

http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/852

I would doubt that 8.6PSI would be enough pressure through the small hoses. The pump specs indicate it will shut off if the pressure gets above 8.6PSI. If you could run larger hose right up to the spindle, maybe so.

Perhaps someone in the forum has measured pressure versus flow for the spindle. I would be interested to know as I have one of the spindles and haven't hooked it up yet.

It's been a looooooong time since I took my electircal theory classes, but here goes....

Without a Db meter I can't quantify how much quieter a spindle is but it is much quieter, is also seems quieter when cutting, better bearings??? don't know, it may only be subjective.

routers and spindles use completely different types of motors.

Routers use unniversal motors ... they run off of single phase A/C and use brushes and a segmented commutator on the rotor.... they are characteristicly loud. But these type of motors are innexpensive, reliable, and generate a significant amount of power in a small package.

Spindles use brushless three phase motors that require a VFD device to both produce the 3 phase power and vary the frequency to controll the speed ... hence the noise is lower and the price is higher.

This is correct to the best of my recollection....

but then again, if that lesson was taught on a Thursday (Wednesday night was bar night at Moo U.) then I take no responsibility for anything.

again, no expert here, but the post by Mariss brought up some very good points....

China is a developing country. Wages are very low for unskilled people and much higher when they acquire skills. The products sold here at low, bargain prices are based on these unskilled wages. So what happens is an unskilled worker is hired and taught in-hose the skills required for the job. Problem is, the skills learned increase the person's marketability but his job won't pay more. The person then leaves for a better paying job and the employer hires another, fresh, unskilled person to replace him.

Yup.... quality control in China is hit or miss. They can't even make baby formula without sickening or killing a couple thousand infants. Their system of government has not been able to keep up with their rapid growth. Market forces run the country and that leaves room for a LOT of cheating.

Labor aside, just think how much the average American company pays for software! All bootleg in China.

I worked with a customer for several months in '08 who for years has made his living as an expert in Chinese manufacturing. Basically, he has boxed up several factories in the U.S. and in Europe and shipped them to China.

There are top notch outfits over there, but they are usually foreign owned and managed. The guy I worked with was from Sensata, which is kind of like the Dutch version of GE.

I think companies like the Sieg plant are also very good.

Read through Grizzly's materials and you will see that they have to actively hunt for quality manufacturers in China.

I agree that Taiwan is today, what Japan was 20 years ago. No issues with Taiwanese made products in my mind.

I'm wondering how the global recession is going to affect these countries manufacturing. I've read that literally hundreds of Chinese furniture plants have shuttered their operations with the complete bust in the U.S. housing market.

Will they can all there trained workers for a fresh crop of farm boys?

or ...

Will the trained workers stay in their underpaid posts, as there are no other options for them.

The world it is a changin'

I would like to get one of the 1.5kw air cooled spindles plus vfd from this seller, but my problem is I need 110v not 220v. The seller says that other US buyers have just used a step up transformer, my question is would this work okay and would it be safe?

Thanks

David

I would like to get one of the 1.5kw air cooled spindles plus vfd from this seller, but my problem is I need 110v not 220v. The seller says that other US buyers have just used a step up transformer, my question is would this work okay and would it be safe?

Thanks

David

David,
Why not wire your shop with 220? You won't regret it.
If thats not your answer look at surplus center for a transformer.

I am going to find out how much that will cost. I also came across this which might work also http://www.quick220.com/220_volt.htm

Any thoughts?

David

I am going to find out how much that will cost. I also came across this which might work also http://www.quick220.com/220_volt.htm

Any thoughts?

David

I wouldn't spend the money on that personally. It would work, but it is just a very expensive way of using the 220 volts that you already have....or don't have...available. All it is basically wires going to the two different outlets on both phases of your panel, found randomly by plugging into random outlets.

If both phases are readily available enough for this thing to work you could make it yourself skipping the fancy indicator lights for about six bucks.

It would be much better to wire up 220 properly of course.

JMO

Northboy

Steve, I have just ordered one of the 1.5kw air cooled spindles + VFD from Ebay and my biggest concern is wiring the VFD up to the power as electrics are not my strong suite.

In my workshop I only have 110v available, but from looking at the wiring diagram and reading your thread, it seem that I do not need 220v, just 2 110v feeds, or is it a 220v outlet with 2 110v hot leads on different phases that I require, how do I get these.

Thanks for any help.

Regards


David

Interesting discussion, but back to Chinese spindles/VFD combinations...

Ok - some success!

We wired the inputs R & S for the two 110V "hot" leads, and connected the ground to pin 9. The motors went U, V, W to pins 1, 2, 3 (soldered). The VFD/spindle appears to be working quite nicely, and I'm able to control forward/reverse, and vary the output from 1 Hz to 400 Hz.

The spindle is VERY quiet. The small 24VDC cooling fan in the VFD is louder than the spindle, even at 24K RPM. I have not installed this on my CNC machine, or hooked up any water cooling yet, but so far it looks very promising. I am hoping to receive a translated manual, but the Hitachi X200 manual was very helpful in terms of installation and basic functionality.

Thanks for all the help.

Steve

These VFDs require 220V. In North America we have two 110V legs, that are 180 degrees out of phase. When one is high and the other is low, the difference is 220V. I'm not an electrician, but this is my understanding.

There may be devices (step up transformers, etc) that can get you 220V out of your 110V, but I would definitely recommend calling an electrician and running a dedicated 220V circuit for your spindle.

Steve

it seem that I do not need 220v, just 2 110v feeds, or is it a 220v outlet with 2 110v hot leads on different phases that I require, how do I get these.

It's likely wired just like a 220 vac clothes dryer or well pump..... and it should definitely be on a dedicated circuit.

Residential service usually has one bus bar at 110 vac and a second bus bar 180 degrees out of phase at 110 vac. 110 circuits are wired with either bus bar supplying the "hot" (black) lead via a single pole breaker, and the neutral block connected to the the white lead. The third (usually bare copper wire) is connected to ground the ground wire block. This results in 110 vac supplied to the outlet.

Note.... often the ground wire and neatrual blocks are cross connected in the breaker box..... but you should still segregate the wires, with only neatral wires on one side and only ground wires on the other. That way you can split the busses in the future should the need arise.

For 220 volt circuits you use a di-pole breaker that bridges the bus bars and you connect one breaker terminal to the black wire, and the other breaker terminal to the white wire (rather than to the neutral block). The ground wire connects just as before. This yields 220 vac to the load.

The 123 book from HD covers most of your residential wiring situations.

But if you burn your house down, you're on your own :)

Your best bet is an electrician if you are not comfortable doing this.
I ran my own 220. I have done some wiring in the past and worked as an electrician for while.
A step up transfomer will probably not work for you. Most residential 110 circuits are 15 or 20 amps. Your spindle may require more, although 1500 watts is usually all that a 110 circuit is likely to supply.
If you try to pull the 220 from 2 110 outlets, they will have to be on opposite legs of the feed. Most rooms have several outlets on a string that is fed by one circuit. It is likely that all the outlets nearby are on a single string.
Run the 220 and add a subpanel in your shop. You will find other uses for it soon enough. If you buy a vacuum pump from many of the surplus outlets you will find that they are mostly 220. Many larger tools require it anyway. Look at cabinet saws and lathes.

Thanks guys, I have an electrician coming on Friday.

David

Hi All

Can one of you who has got one of the spindles running ,just confirm the usable speed range you are getting .

Thanks

Andy

I get from 0 up to 24000 RPM. My VFD reads 400 when it is running at 24000 RPM. I created a chart in a spreadsheet to calculate the exact RPM for a given frequency. Usable is from about 6000 and up.

Pplug

On my VFD you can set a scale factor (6) to the HZ reading so that it will read in RPM.

Maybe yours has a similar setting.

Greg

Cheers Pplug

I will be finding out for myself soon as I have just ordered one of the 2.2Kw spindles with VFD so get ready for the questions on setup :)

Andy

Has anyone tried one of these spindles with flood coolant?

Chris Kirchen

Has anyone measured the runout on these spindles? Does it come anywhere near the published specs?

Could one of these spindles be powered off of 220v clothes dryer connection?

They just need a ~220V AC supply of the correct current rating. (7-8A for the 1500Watt spindles, 10A to be sure though.) Either 50 or 60HZ will be fine.

A 220-240 clothes dryer connection will provide more than enough power for the spindle VFD.

A typical electric dryer consumes over 5000 watts and requires a 30-amp outlet.

Jeff...

thanks, will have to keep these in mind if/when my router dies from dead bearings.

Hi All, this is how I did the water cooling (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24337&postcount=19)

YouTube - cooling setup for the CNC spindle

Hello everyone,

I've just joined the chinese spindle club.
Purchased a 2.2 Kw spindle with the matching inverter and I don't know how many poles is the motor. Couldn't find this particular spec about the spindle.
And I am worried because the spindle gets quite hot after just 20 seconds of running. Can someone shed some light?
Thanks, Adrian

P.S. Managed to set the rated current at 8 amps and everything else seems ok. Spindle runs smooth and quiet with the default 4 poles setup in the VFD.

its mostly 2 pole spindle if its rated upto 24k rpm.

Hello everyone,

I've just joined the chinese spindle club.
Purchased a 2.2 Kw spindle with the matching inverter and I don't know how many poles is the motor. Couldn't find this particular spec about the spindle.
And I am worried because the spindle gets quite hot after just 20 seconds of running. Can someone shed some light?
Thanks, Adrian

P.S. Managed to set the rated current at 8 amps and everything else seems ok. Spindle runs smooth and quiet with the default 4 poles setup in the VFD.


Ok, here's the answer that I give to myself:

I adjusted PD011 parameter (frequency lower limit) to 120 Hz, based on the motor specifications regarding RPM (8000 - 24000). This took care of the motor heating. I figured that if the rated RPM is 8000 - 24000, then the minimum frequency should be somewhere at 133 HZ. I set it to 120 Hz. The setting for the number of poles remained the same as per factory setting (4).
I started the motor and kept it running for 3 minutes. Absolutely no heat! That is to say, the spindle didn't even get warm!

My general impression about this spindle: It is built quite nice, but you can observe some imperfections, like the black flange in the nose of the spindle (the one which does not rotate) which is not centered or flush with the spindle body (the polished metal cylinder). Also the collet nut which is simply plain junk. It wouldn't hold the collet in it when unscrewed, so I replaced it with one taken from a Command BT30 tool holder.

Haven't set up a cooling system yet to check for leaks. I hope I will not have this issue.
Otherwise, the spindle runs quiet, smooth as silk - as someone here put it - and the inside cone for the collet does not vibrate at all even at 24k. Although I haven't measured the runout, I do not suspect any surprises. I turned a 1/2" endmill held with the Command nut and a precision collet (Maritool) at 12000 RPM and couldn't feel any strange vibration.

Bottom line, it is great value for the money, I will leave positive feedback to the seller.

Yours, Adrian

Adrian, I am a little confused, you said your spindle was getting warm, but you have not set up your water cooling yet? Without cooling I would expect it to get warm in fact I would expect it to burn out.

I also have a 2.2kw spindle as well as a 1.5kw air cooled. The first air cooled one I had, I burnt out with lots of smoke because I did not know that under 100hz the cooling fan does not come on and it overheated in a few minutes.

David

Adrian, I am a little confused, you said your spindle was getting warm, but you have not set up your water cooling yet? Without cooling I would expect it to get warm in fact I would expect it to burn out.

I also have a 2.2kw spindle as well as a 1.5kw air cooled. The first air cooled one I had, I burnt out with lots of smoke because I did not know that under 100hz the cooling fan does not come on and it overheated in a few minutes.

David

David,

It is as I said. Before setting that parameter to 120Hz, the spindle was getting hot even after 20 seconds of running. After setting that parameter, I let the spindle run for a few minutes and indeed the spindle remained cold. I felt a little bit of warmth in the collet seat (probably from the bearings).
The spindle was ran in both cases to the same RPM.

The spindle is 2.2 Kw, water cooled spindle. Go ahead and experiment with this setting. The manual says that this setting is to prevent overheating due to running the motor at too low of a frequency.

Anybody else can confirm this?

Adrian

Sorry Adrian, I should have been clearer, are you saying that after setting PD11 to 120hz the spindle was running cool without water cooling?

Thanks

David

Sorry Adrian, I should have been clearer, are you saying that after setting PD11 to 120hz the spindle was running cool without water cooling?

Thanks

David


Exactly.

Sorry Adrian, I should have been clearer, are you saying that after setting PD11 to 120hz the spindle was running cool without water cooling?

Thanks

David
Remember that is without load.

If I remember correctly, this kind of motor only tends to draw the more serious current when it's under load.

Also I think setting the number of poles correctly to 2 will allow the VFD to display the speed in RPM instead of just Hz. Not tried messing with mine though, I'm still waiting for a long earth strap.

Remember that is without load.

If I remember correctly, this kind of motor only tends to draw the more serious current when it's under load.

Also I think setting the number of poles correctly to 2 will allow the VFD to display the speed in RPM instead of just Hz. Not tried messing with mine though, I'm still waiting for a long earth strap.


You are absolutely right. That's why I was worried when I saw the spindle getting so hot in 20 seconds without any load.
I didn't check the RPM display with the 4 pole setting, but most probably you are right again. I'll correct that setting first thing tomorrow and let you know.
I run the inverter at 220 volt 1 phase 50 Hz.
Adrian

Hey all, put me down as a member of the Chinese spindle club too.

My 1500W air cooled spindle arrived today, though I am having some problems setting it up, the manual is rather cryptic to say the least.

Would anyone be able to help with the settings for the VFD (huanyang HY01D523B).

Here's what I tried

PD004 -Base frequency - 400Hz
PD005 - Maz operating frequency - 400Hz
PD008 - Max Voltage - 220v
PD142 - Rated Motor Current 8A

Everything else I left at factory default, the motor gets to about 110hz before the VFD cuts out and displays the error "E.OC.A"

Help???

Hey all, put me down as a member of the Chinese spindle club too.

My 1500W air cooled spindle arrived today, though I am having some problems setting it up, the manual is rather cryptic to say the least.

Would anyone be able to help with the settings for the VFD (huanyang HY01D523B).

Here's what I tried

PD004 -Base frequency - 400Hz
PD005 - Maz operating frequency - 400Hz
PD008 - Max Voltage - 220v
PD142 - Rated Motor Current 8A

Everything else I left at factory default, the motor gets to about 110hz before the VFD cuts out and displays the error "E.OC.A"

Help???

I had the same error when, because I thought the spindle heating was caused by the PD142(factory default 11 amps), I adjusted this parameter to 5 amps even though the spindle motor is rated 8 amps. So, it seemed like the motor couldn't ramp up to the MAIN FREQUENCY (PD003) and I got the error.
So, I adjusted the parameter to 8 amps and it went ok. By the way, what is your setting for PD003?

Check the PD006 (intermediate frequency). If you're running the inverter at 60 Hz, set the parameter at 3. If running at 50 Hz, set it at 2.5.
The manual says if set improperly, this parameter may cause over current or under torque or even tripping the inverter.

Check PD009 (intermediate voltage). Improper setting could cause same as above.

Finally, check PD011 (frequency lower limit). I set this parameter to 120 Hz because the rated RPM of the motor is not from zero to 24000. It is from 8000 to 24000. I suspect that what is happening is because of the frequency too low during the acceleration phase. Doing so, I managed to avoid spindle getting hot in the first 20 seconds of operation. Instead, with this setting, the spindle runs cold even for 3 minutes of operation (with no load). Mine is water cooled (but I didn't set up the cooling system at all), is 2.2 Kw, 220 volt. I run the inverter at 220 volt, single phase, 50 Hz.

Good luck!
Adrian

E.O.C.A mean over-current

On the 1.5kw air cooled spindle if the speed is lower than 100HZ, then the fan in the spindle does not come on so I agree about setting PD-11 to 120Hz.

The rest of your settings look okay and my 1.5kw spindle runs with them, however on my original spindle when I did not set OD005, PD004 and PD003 to 400 on my initial run I burnt the motor out in minutes (with smoke) and after that is when I got the EOCA error.

David

There is a another thread with information about the Huanyang VFDs, including links to translated manuals.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74592

Manual in Word doc format:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=595342&postcount=17

Steve

Ok, so far I have this list of settings:

PD003 - Main Frequency - 400Hz
PD004 -Base frequency - 400Hz
PD005 - Maz operating frequency - 400Hz
PD008 - Max Voltage - 220v
PD006 - Intermediate Frequency - 2.5
PD009 - Intermediate Voltage - 15
PD143 - Motor Pole Number - 2
PD142 - Rated Motor Current 7A

I checked PD142 again and it seems 7A is as high as the VFD can go so this may be the source of the problem, I tried increasing the acceleration time to see if a slower startup would draw less current and yes the spindle gets to a higher speed before it cuts out.

Time for a new VFD I think :(

*Edit*

After reading all the replies, my motor did get very hot on its first run, though this was only a few seconds at 50hz (no magic smoke but the casing got to about 40C) so maybe the motor is damaged, did your motor continue to run after letting out the magic smoke?

Ok, so far I have this list of settings:

PD003 - Main Frequency - 400Hz
PD004 -Base frequency - 400Hz
PD005 - Maz operating frequency - 400Hz
PD008 - Max Voltage - 220v
PD006 - Intermediate Frequency - 2.5
PD009 - Intermediate Voltage - 15
PD143 - Motor Pole Number - 2
PD142 - Rated Motor Current 7A

I checked PD142 again and it seems 7A is as high as the VFD can go so this may be the source of the problem, I tried increasing the acceleration time to see if a slower startup would draw less current and yes the spindle gets to a higher speed before it cuts out.

Time for a new VFD I think :(

*Edit*

After reading all the replies, my motor did get very hot on its first run, though this was only a few seconds at 50hz (no magic smoke but the casing got to about 40C) so maybe the motor is damaged, did your motor continue to run after letting out the magic smoke?


Check PD011 ! set it to 120 hz and the spindle will run ok.

The 7 amps is not the problem, my 1.5kw air cooled spindle has the same VFD at 7amps max and it is fine. My suspicion is that the spindle is faulty

David

I just did a quick test run of mine today. I used the "basic quick setup" instructions that the seller told me to use:
PD013 = 8 (Reset settings)
PD005 = 400 (Max frequency)
PD004 = 400 (Base frequency)
PD003 = 100 (Set frequency - I.e. The frequency it starts at as a default)

The only real difference is the reset - Maybe you should try it before making your changes ?

This run fine and I was impressed with how smooth and quite the spindle was.

You could also check the resistance of each winding. Mine are "around" 7.5 Ohms.

PS: The display on the VFD is crap. :(

I just did a quick test run of mine today. I used the "basic quick setup" instructions that the seller told me to use:
PD013 = 8 (Reset settings)
PD005 = 400 (Max frequency)
PD004 = 400 (Base frequency)
PD003 = 100 (Set frequency - I.e. The frequency it starts at as a default)

The only real difference is the reset - Maybe you should try it before making your changes ?

This run fine and I was impressed with how smooth and quite the spindle was.

You could also check the resistance of each winding. Mine are "around" 7.5 Ohms.

PS: The display on the VFD is crap. :(

I get three different readings for resistance so it looks like there is a short on at least one of the windings,

1-2 6.5 Ohms
2-3 5.0 Ohms
1-3 2.3 Ohms

I think we can close the case on this one as I have contacted the seller about a replacement.

Thank you for all your help, hopefully the list of settings will help the nest person who reads this lot

Okay my 2.2kw spindle is up and running. Does anyone know what to set PD0144 (motor RPM) to to get the correct display of 24000rpm when at max?

Also my cooling system monitors the water temp, what would be considered the max water temperature before an alarm goes off?

Thanks

David

I think it's the RPM @ 50Hz. (So 3,000RPM.)

I’m thoroughly confused. What settings is everyone using on HY02d223B. How do you set the readout for rpm’s . Can you adjust them from the front panel or do you always have to go into program mode.
Thanks Ed

I’m thoroughly confused. What settings is everyone using on HY02d223B. How do you set the readout for rpm’s . Can you adjust them from the front panel or do you always have to go into program mode.
Thanks Ed
I've not played with it enough to get the readout yet, however to adjust the speed you don't need to be in programming mode. Just press the arrow keys to change the frequency and it will adjust real-time if it's already running.

The Up and Down keys change the current digit and the '>>' key changes which digit is current.

The speed is the frequency multiplied by 60.

This is from AO Smiths website and is talking about single phase motors.

Every motor has magnetic poles, just like a permanent magnet. These poles are created by bundles of magnet wire wound together in the slots of the stationary part of the motor (the stator core). Look inside an electric motor, and you can count the number of poles or windings. The number and alignment of these bundles of wires creates magnetic poles, and the number of poles in the motor determine the motor’s speed, stated in revolutions per minute. Keep in mind, no-load RPM is a factor of motor poles and power frequency, not voltage, horsepower, or motor diameter.

With that knowledge in mind, you may surmise that every four-pole AC induction motor runs at the same speed. This is in fact the case, and you can determine this speed by using the following formula:

For 60 hertz electrical systems: 7,200 divided by the number of poles in the motor gives you the no load RPM.

(For 50 hertz systems: 6,000 divided by the number of poles gives you the no load RPM.) For the purposes of this article, I’ll use the North American (60 hertz) system.

Another important element to remember from this formula is that I’ll be giving you the no load RPM in the following examples. You should note that under load, the rotating parts of the motor fall behind or “slip” the magnetic speed.

Using the standard formula, you can determine that a four-pole motor operating under no-load conditions will run at 1,800 RPM (7,200 divided by four poles). Loaded, the motor will slip to between 1,600 and 1,750 RPM. Four pole designs are the most common pole configuration for AC induction motors and are typically found in belted applications such as blowers, fans, air-handling equipment, compressors, commercial garage door openers, and conveyors.

A two-pole motor will operate at 3,600 RPM unloaded and between 3,000 and 3,450 RPM under load. Such speeds are commonly found in pump applications, such as submersible pumps, sump pumps, pool or water recirculating equipment. Another typical application is small ventilating fans. To the untrained ear, two-pole motors appear to need servicing because they sound somewhat noisier when running. This is principally due to the higher RPM, and as a service technician, you should be aware of the different “normal” sounds a motor makes that are related to speed.

Six-pole motors run at 1,200 RPM unloaded and between 1,050 and 1,175 RPM loaded. They are often used for air-handling equipment, direct-drive applications, window fans, furnace blowers, room air conditioners, heat pumps, residential garage door openers, and other equipment.

As you can imagine, lower mechanical speeds often result in quieter designs, which makes an eight-pole motor well-suited for many residential applications where noise is a factor. These motors operate at 900 RPM unloaded (between 800 and 875 RPM loaded) and are being used more extensively today in room air conditioning, outdoor heat pump, and residential garage door openers.

A less common design is the 12-pole motor. This motor, which runs at 600 RPM unloaded, is used in washing machines and other equipment that require a slow cycle.


3 phase is similar. You can see that number of poles determines the speed from the frequency. So where did the 7200 number from the top of this come from?
60 cycles per second (hertz) * 60 seconds per minute = 3600 * 2 peaks per cycle = 7200.
Why peaks? think syn wave. + peak and - peak.
With a VFD (variable frequency drive) we can now change that frequency from 60 to some other value. In most cases up to 400hz (400 cycles per second). So 400 * 60 * 2 = 48000 / poles = speed. Must be a 2 pole motor because we see a peak of 24000 rpm.
Hope this helps.

Hi All,
I've been reading this thread with interest as i'm thinking about getting one of these water cooled spindles for my router when i start building it.

I want to make aluminium wing moulds for R/C gliders and i was wondering if this type of spindle will be good enough? I'm pretty sure it will be good enough for my MDF proto's,but has anyone used them for machining aluminium?

Any advice would be great.

Thanks

Tim

Allyd1964's used one of these spindles on aluminium.

See the second post on this page: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78742&page=2

I have a strange problem. I have the 2.2kv and it works fine but when I start it my limits switches come one. I have to have everyone of them turned off. I have wired them closed so if a wire comes off or one is triggered it resets. Does anyone know what to do about this.
Thanks Ed

Ed

Are you using shielded cable on your spindle and and limit switches? Someone else had the very same problem might be worth you looking back over this thread I think it was MikeF from the UK

Good Luck

Andy

Ed,

Try adding debounce time until the problem goes away.

Jeff...

ED

Here is the link to Mike's post it may or may not help
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6840&page=34
post 398 I think

Andy

I had the same exact problem. My limit switches were shielded, but my spindle cable is not. The instant the spindle goes on, the limit switches are triggered. The VFD/spindle puts out a fair amount of noise. If your breakout board doesn't have built in filtering, you're going to get these false triggers.

I've ordered the shielded spindle cable, but still waiting for it to arrive. I believe this will significantly cut down on the noise issues. In the meantime, I added .1uF caps between the limit inputs and ground to act as a filter. This is working perfectly. In fact, I've needed this since I ran everything in Igus chain, so it's the stepper motors as well as the spindle noise that I'm dealing with.

No amount of debounce helped my situation. Also, the larger debounce values cause a real delay in the triggering of the home/limit. So much so, that my home switches were no longer reacting at 0,0. More like -.01,-.01. With the caps, I can use a debounce of 50, and don't get the noise based false triggers. The switches react much more quickly this way.

Steve

you can also try adding a small cap to the limit switch line. 0.1 mf is the value I remember. It goes between signal and ground. This acts as a high pass filter and removes the high frequency component of the induced signal.

I had issues with noise when I added my ekstrom carlson spindle. Also had all shielded cable for everything (servo incoders, limits and power to spindle) in addition I had input, and output filters added to my VFD drive.

My gantry would sometimes move during the powering down of the spindle. Added .01 UF caps to cure issues and have not had problems since. I'd have to look inside my controller to see what else I changed to cure..

b.

I added .1uf to my limits, set my debounce to 50. Better but no cookie. It will still knock my limits sometimes. I don't think my 2200 watt is running as fast as it should. What settings are you guys using.
Thanks Ed

where would you add the caps? and what exactly does that do to help with false limit hits?

thanks,

Could some one post a quick schematic of the limit switch circuit so we could clear up any confusion?

look at this thread (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584&page=4)- a good reading will let you know what to do.

There are several ways to wire your limits, but here is how I've done mine. I apologize for the crude sketch.

This is from memory, but I believe it's correct. Standard NC limit with a pull up resistor. The input (pin 10, 11...) is low, until the switch is opened, then the input goes high (+5V, or actually +3.8V on mine). In this case, ground is actually wired back to pins 18-25 on the parallel port.

The cap is wired in parallel to the switch. There are many articles on filtering out there, and I'm not remotely qualified to explain how it works! This is about as basic as it gets, but it fixed my noise issues.

Steve

I just wired my filter caps from signal to ground at the pin connections in the controller.

I've been reading this thread for a full day and answered most of my questions about the Chinese Spindle... but one.

Anyone can tell me where I can buy the spindle mount? (80mm)
I am buying the water-cooling spindle 2.2k from ( http://myworld.ebay.com/love-happyshopping ). 80mm diameter (?)

I made my own mounts for the same spindle as yours and attached a couple of pictures.

I have been thinking of making a few extras for sale.

DNA3000,

Call K2 they make lots of different types of router mounts and there prices are really fair $50.00-$60.00.

714-999-1156

http://www.k2cnc.com/shop/products.asp?cat=31


Jeff...

Very good reading. My Data cut CNC is nearing completion and I am already to toss the router and get a VFD and Chinese Spindle. Has anybody looked at the VFDs or Spindles that are offered by MotionTek ?

http://www.motiontek.ca/Spindle.html

DNA3000,

Call K2 they make lots of different types of router mounts and there prices are really fair $50.00-$60.00.

714-999-1156

http://www.k2cnc.com/shop/products.asp?cat=31


Jeff...

They don't make one for the Chinese spindles as far as I know.

David

David how do you buff your aluminum to look like that.
Thanks Ed

Ed, that is how it is when it comes of my CNC Mill, the only thing I do to it is take any sharp edges of with some sand paper.

David

David, yes that's nice looking work. Is it compatible with the K2 offering? I made some corian bushings so I could fit my 80mm spindle in the 3.5" K2 mount. However, I'd rather just mount it directly in a dedicated fixture, as long as the bit remained centered and the dust skirt post was in the same location as the K2.

Thanks,

Steve

David
So you mill the hole thing first. Then mill it out.
Ed

David,

K2 can omit the router pocket on the mounting plates and you can machine it to size yourself.

Jeff...

Well I just joined the club. Bought one from happy happy joy joy. I called MotionTek, but its not a Huanyang VFD, they dont have much Mach experience and total price was around $1000CAD.

I would rather have something that many people are using so I can at least get a little bit of support.

thanks for all the hard work gang.

They don't make one for the Chinese spindles as far as I know.

David

Thank you guys for your quick answer.

Actually I got my CNC router from K2. I need 80mm (3.15 inch). K2 is replacing my unused Porter Cable Mount for their RM-Makita Mount (3.22 inch) at no cost.
If that one doesn't work full closed I might have to get one from David.
I am afraid to screw the sides of the spindle. I think it needs to be perfect tight, not "somehow/somewhere" tight.

And by the way David, regardless if I get it from you or not you should defenetely build a couple of those and sell it on Ebay. The one you did looks neat and easy selling on Ebay. This guys are selling at least 10 spindles a month... or more.

I wasn't expecting the feedback that fast. I guess the community is bigger than what I thought.
Thank you again to all.

Could someone posted thier settings for a 2.2kv. My readout says it is going 11,520 rpms. I know I must have something wrong.
Thanks Ed

Could someone posted thier settings for a 2.2kv. My readout says it is going 11,520 rpms. I know I must have something wrong.
Thanks Ed

I found that reading this thread you have all what you need:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74592

So, I have the spindle... now the main problem with is that my Chinese is not THAT good...

Ask the seller for a manual in English.

Connection #9 is the Earth btw.

This thread has two links to two versions of the manual translated to english.

Nice mac keyboard BTW! I wish I could use the mac OS to drive my machines.....

So, I have the spindle... now the main problem with is that my Chinese is not THAT good...

this little paper is traditional chinese say this, you can copy & paste to google
"請將電機直接接入變壓器UVW上，中間嚴禁安裝任何的開關電容器件，否則會引起變頻器損壞"
my english not goog so i type to google translate, google translate is "You direct access to the electrical transformer uvw, the middle is prohibited to install any parts of the switched capacitor, otherwise the damage will be caused by inverter"

my bundle same to your VFD but my spindle is 1.5kw air-cooled, i hope i can be help you

Could someone posted thier settings for a 2.2kv. My readout says it is going 11,520 rpms. I know I must have something wrong.
Thanks Ed

config vfd PD144 = 3000, factory setting is 1440

This might help - pictures showing a Delta VFD at work!

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24519&postcount=156

I added .1uf to my limits, set my debounce to 50. Better but no cookie. It will still knock my limits sometimes. I don't think my 2200 watt is running as fast as it should. What settings are you guys using.
Thanks Ed

On my RF45 I had to set debounce to 500. Never had a problem after that.
Joe

this little paper is traditional chinese say this, you can copy & paste to google
"請將電機直接接入變壓器UVW上，中間嚴禁安裝任何的開關電容器件，否則會引起變頻器損壞"
my english not goog so i type to google translate, google translate is "You direct access to the electrical transformer uvw, the middle is prohibited to install any parts of the switched capacitor, otherwise the damage will be caused by inverter"

my bundle same to your VFD but my spindle is 1.5kw air-cooled, i hope i can be help you

The translation is more confusing...

"You direct access to the electrical transformer UVW, the middle is prohibited to install any parts of the switched capacitor, otherwise the damage will be caused by inverter"

The translation is more confusing...

"You direct access to the electrical transformer UVW, the middle is prohibited to install any parts of the switched capacitor, otherwise the damage will be caused by inverter"

that's mean is don't connect any EMI filter, fuse on or before spindle, UVW connector must be direct connect spindle

Pin 1 of spindle to VFD “U”
Pin 2 of spindle to VFD “V”
Pin 3 of spindle to VFD “W”
Motor pin 4 unused
Ground the case of the motor to ground

Dont put anything between the VFD and spindle. (just like your stepper motors and drives).



read the english manual as posted earlier in this post. It will explain everything clearly.

These guys seem OK as the E-bay feedback shows.They can quote on parts not listed in the store.
EG 4.5kw/380V/3ph watercooled spindle:$590US+$155US shipping
7kw/380/3ph:$720+201 shipping.
This does not include VFD but there is tons of VFDs on Ebay
Larry

The translation is more confusing...

"You direct access to the electrical transformer UVW, the middle is prohibited to install any parts of the switched capacitor, otherwise the damage will be caused by inverter"

Translation:

"Directly connncet the inverter to UVW in the VFD. Do not connect any Capacitor between Inverter and VFD. If so, it will damge your inverter"

For this inverter one ebay, The Bearing is not Original NSK bearing (Less life time) . The NSK bearing cost more, but run longer.

http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindleandController.html

I now have one of these Chinese spindles. This is what the guy sent me for wiring. I got it up and running pretty quickly but some of the VFD settings didn't hold their values. The guy said it was a spindle issue and I was to return for a replacement. Still waiting on replacement. I did have it running and ran a small job just to use it. All I can say is "why didn't I do this sooner"! This thing is so quite. I will not miss my Porter Cable at all.
Thought I would add this too, this was in his email;

1. I drafted the wire picture to you in this email attachment
2. I added the manual in this email for you
3. I just tell you how to set up vfd as following
Firstly, adjust the PD013 to 8
Secondly, adjust the PD005 to 400
Thirdly, adjust the PD004 to 400
Finally, adjust the PD003 to 400
Note: you should set PD013, PD005 ,PD004,PD003 in order.

Make sure to NOT set PD013 to 8 AFTER you set your other parameters (unless you mean it). PD013 set to 8 resets the system back to the factory defaults.

Has anyone tried to run the HuanYang VFD over MODBUS/RS-485 with Mach 3?
I have the HY02D223B and may give it a try.

So far everything is going fine. Thanks guys.

Now, if someone knows how to change the chuck, and what compatible chuck would fit on our Chinese spindle.

The spindles have an ER collet. The 1.5KW spindles have usually an ER11 collet and the 2.2KW spindles usually have an ER16 collet. Double check the size, don't take my word for it.

Actually my 2.2kw came with ER 20 but I think it is pot luck as to what you get unless you specifically ask.

David

Not to hi-jack your thread but I'm considering a chinese water-cooled spindle from this guy. I have read reviews from a couple of folks who are pleased with this seller and the feedback looks pretty good. You gotta love the name too!

Love-Happyshopping (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5574677228&toolid=10001&campid=5336348864&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fstores.shop.ebay.com%2Flove-happyshopping__W0QQ_armrsZ1)

Anyone ever dealt with them/him/she?

Thanks,
Matt

Yes, I have the 2.2kw water cooler and the 1.5kw air cooled spindle from them and was very happy with the service.

I made my own mount for the 2.2kw as shown in the pictures below which if you are interested in one let me know.

David

I have a 1.5KW air cooled spindle from that seller and I'm happy, they are a very friendly seller.

Has anyone tried to run the HuanYang VFD over MODBUS/RS-485 with Mach 3?
I have the HY02D223B and may give it a try.

Yes I'm trying. (thats what my wife tells me!) and a mate of mine has posted a little VB test app that works great outside of mach to control and get feedback on speed and current draw from the VFD. Its posted on here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83020&page=3&highlight=huanyang

Now to figure out the hard part of getting Mach to say the same thing. Unfortunately this VFD seems to have a non standard (ie not mach modbus) command string structure.

Cheers

Mark

Not to hi-jack your thread but I'm considering a chinese water-cooled spindle from this guy. I have read reviews from a couple of folks who are pleased with this seller and the feedback looks pretty good. You gotta love the name too!

Love-Happyshopping (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5574677228&toolid=10001&campid=5336348864&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fstores.shop.ebay.com%2Flove-happyshopping__W0QQ_armrsZ1)

Anyone ever dealt with them/him/she?

Thanks,
Matt

I did. The shipping was fast (considering that is coming from China), almost a week.

This might be a stupid question, but I guess it's dumber not to ask. Can I use a 2.2kw water cooled spindle to do mill work or are these pretty much strictly for engraving? i.e. can I replace the spindle on a small mill with the 2.2kw VFD spindle with ER16 collet and make an adapter to accept R8 collets? Is this practical or obsurd?

Thanks,
Ira

Hello all,
I just got my 2.2kw water cooled spindle and Huanyang vfd. I have not powered it up yet, because upon receival I heard clunking noices when shaking the vfd.
Today I dismantled it. I found that one of the two large capacitors was completely loose.
My first thought was to solder it back in parallell to the other one, but looking at the board, it suggests that they are mounted in series. Can anyone confirm this? When looking through the cooling grille, can you see the white stripe on one, or both capacitors?

Apart from this, I found that two of the power transistors(or whatever) was not screwed completely down to the heat sink. I also found an extra lock washer floating around.
Based on this, I would advice to make an inspection inside before putting power on it.

Ira;
The spindle is looking very sturdy, and I will be disappointed if it cant take a good deal of mill work. I have two machines under construction, and will put the spindle on which ever finishes first. That is propably my 600x600x250 router made from Isel parts, and I plan to feed it with much aluminum:-)
I would forget the R8 adapter, and rather get a 2-13mm set of ER20 collets. A set is less than $30 on ebay.

Lars

Lars, thanks for the input, I agree with buying the ER20 collets. I already have some R8 specific tooling I'd also like to use and it looked like the er20 was big enough to accept some type of sleeve. I thought I could make one, but I'm not sure untill I get my hands on one.

Here's a picture of one of my 1.5kw Huanyang VFD's, it shows both white strips alinged I don't see why this would be different on the 2.2kw model.

-Ira

Hi Lars

I don't have mine with me at work tonight,but I'll check for you first thing tomorrow. I can see from your pics that you don't have any components for the breaking resistor circuit either. I've been told that these models don't have them installed (dispite the manual describing what value the external breaking resistor should be)

I'm still a ways off finishing my machine but would also say the spindle motor feels up to the job. Its 2.2kw at full speed so what it is at slower speeds i don't know but I doubt its any worse than a router. In fatc I would wager its a fair bit better. This is where your intermediate frequency and voltage settings will come into play. I've scaled mine on the theory that if you change PD005 from 50hz to 400hz then you should also multiply the intermediat and min bu 8 also. So PD006 becomes 20 and PD007 becomes 4.

Cheers

Mark

Thanks both of you. Looks like parallell it will be, but I shal await Marks observations.

Mark; as I have no previous experience with vfd's, you have given me something to investigate. I will try to read up about intermediate settings.

Lars

If it were mine, I would send it back for a replacement.

The first 1.5kw air cooled spindle I had I burnt out because of the lack of warning not to set it below 100hz (default was 50hz) as the fan does not come on.

Anyway, I told them it was burnt out and they cross shipped me a new one and paid for the shipping (I paid for the shipping back to China which was about $35 for the spindle only.

David

My 1.5KW has both capacitors facing the same direction.

On your board it looks like the board is designed to hold either setup depending on the requirement. It may be that way so they can put them in series for the 380V version.

Based upon the amount of things wrong with your VFD, I'd contact the seller and get a replacement personally.

Hi Lars

Yep mines the same as the others, you can see both stripes thru the grill.

I'd tend to agree with the others also and have it replaced but I know what a pain it can be to send stuff back when alls you want to do is play with your new toy. Maybe sent pics and an explanation back to the seller before doing anything and tell them you are willing to fix it but will send it back if it smokes.

If you got it from Chai at Linearbearing ebayshop then I've found him to be very helpfull and I'm sure he would replace it no probs.

Cheers

BTW this is my first VFD too so I'm learning too.

Yes, I have the 2.2kw water cooler and the 1.5kw air cooled spindle from them and was very happy with the service.

I made my own mount for the 2.2kw as shown in the pictures below which if you are interested in one let me know.

David

Hey guys, I just got David's spindle mount and it fits perfect. Well machined and fast delivery, paid with Paypal... everything smooth. Thanks David.

So now my setup is complete with this mount... and yes, on the top there is my "T-Christ" :)

Hi DNA

What water cooling system are you using for the spindle?


Andy

What water cooling system are you using for the spindle?


I have the same spindle. I ran the 1/4" hoses to a submerisble pump in a 5gal pail of coolant. **no problem at all** stays nice and cool.

Glad you are happy with it.

Your setup looks good, I especially like the terminator guarding your z axis stepper ;)


David

Hey guys, I just got David's spindle mount and it fits perfect. Well machined and fast delivery, paid with Paypal... everything smooth. Thanks David.

So now my setup is complete with this mount... and yes, on the top there is my "T-Christ" :)

I took the chance and soldered back the capacitor, and have just wired up the spindle to make a test.
Everything is looking good, and spindle is running nice and quiet.
I will have to find my optical revolution counter to verify scaling, but I have little doubt that it doesn't make its rated rpm.

Lars

keling inc sells an ATC spindle http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindleandController.html

Has anyone attempted to roll their own ATC with one of these?

Not sure of your question. That's link points to the exact same chinese spindle and controller we are using on this thread.

Not sure of your question. That's link points to the exact same chinese spindle and controller we are using on this thread.

Down towards the bottom of that page there are ATC spindles.

Is it cnc machines?

Ahh gotcha, yes it'd be interesting to see if anyone is using those Chinese automatic tool change spindles.

Just finished making a spindle mount for someone else.

This time it is for a 0.8kw spindle (but would also fit a 1.5kw).

David

I have the same spindle. I ran the 1/4" hoses to a submerisble pump in a 5gal pail of coolant. **no problem at all** stays nice and cool.

Thanks analogman for the reply.

Has anybody purchased the Chinese ER20 collets for their spindles?

If so are you satisfied with the quality are they worth buying?


Andy

keling inc sells an ATC spindle http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindleandController.html

Has anyone attempted to roll their own ATC with one of these?

Hi We did not sell to any hobby person yet. It costs too much for the whole system for the hobby users. We sold to CNC router company. If you have any question email me to support@kelinginc.net

I installed a 3.3 hp auto changer on my cnc. it works great. I brought a water chiller pump also with the spindle. much better than trying to make it.
very quiet and smooth running. The company I got the spindle from was very helpful

Hey Gang,

Well I jumped on the Chinese water cooled spindle band wagon. Just placed my order for the 3KW combo job, from happy. A few questions, as I have seen many posts for the 2.2KW spindles. Does anyone else have the 3KW spindle? I was curious what the dimensions for the water lines are as well as the power cable. I need to order a shielded cable the 4HP spindle pulls 13A, so I guess 14AWG four wire shielded cable would work, but the outside diameter would be very useful.

Does anyone have the manual for the HY-05D5 inverter drive? I decided to go with the larger spindle to ensure I had enough power to handle aluminum. I can do it with my Bosch 1617EVS router but the noise will kill you.

Thanks

CNCMAN172
Russ

i used 3/8 tubing and a water chiller made to go with the spindle. it has a pump , tank and fan in one unit. everything is a closed system. even has a temp gauge and alarms for no flow.

taylormade,

Who did you purchase your auto changing spindle from? I am looking for one.

Andrew

Taylormade,

Thanks for the info on the tubing. Do you have a photo of the chiller made for the 3KW spindle? I had not heard about that item yet. Also do you know the size of the spindle cable opening at the top for the wiring to the VFD. I was thinking about using 14 AWG shielded and was also curious if the connector had three or four connections. Many say their spindles only had three connections. How did you attach the ground to the spindle? If you run a cable with one lead as ground and you take it to the spindle I guess you could tie to the connection itself and accomplish the task. Just curious how others did this on their spindles. Thanks for the info.

CNCMAN172
Russ

http://s465.photobucket.com/albums/rr12/taylormadewood/?action=view&current=Picture602.jpg

here is link for the chiller

4 wires, 3 plus a ground

i used a 12awg 4 wires shielded


i attached the ground and the shield to the spindle and vfd



here is my number 757-288-6256 call me if you have a question. i want to help because 4 months ago i couldn't get in touch with anyone who had one up and running to ask questions.
I waited to post info on the spindle to make sure it work and performed like it was suppose to.
i am very pleased

How did you attach the ground to the spindle? If you run a cable with one lead as ground and you take it to the spindle I guess you could tie to the connection itself and accomplish the task.
I use a large Earth strap - Like you would use on the copper pipes in your house only larger.

(Pictured is two standard ones to get the size, but I now have one which is large enough on its own so it is possible to get them.)

For cooling I use a 5gal pail with coolant and submersible pump. No fans or radiators or anything. The spindle barely gets even warm. It'd be nice to have a flow gauge.

The connector on the spindle is grounded. I then used shielded cable to the VFD. From the VFD to power ground.

NOTE: there are two ground screws inside the VFD - they are NOT connected. Found that out the hard way.

here is a link for a thermaltake flow tx plux flow meter with temperature indicator cl-w0138 $30

it is 12 volts i got it before i got the chiller with temperature gauge and alarms


http://www.crazypc.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=93325&Category_Code=

Does anyone has interferences problems with this spindle & VFD?

My neighbor is having interferences problems with his FM radio since I am using the spindle. He call AT&T thinking that was the problem, AT&T refers him to the electric company. Now they are monitoring interferences with a weird box next to the electric meter.

Now, here is the deal. He is having problems since I got the spindle, so I think that I am the problem... (the spindle).

If the VFD is working at 400 mhz that would make sense since that is FCC matters under those frequencies. Now I understand why FCC certification label is on every electronics not related with radios... guess what, nobody certified ours spindles or VFD.

If someone knows the solution to shield that particular problem, please let me know.

Thanks.

The high speed spindles run at a max of 400Hz, not 400MHz. That's a difference of one million times. The vfd does switch on and off the voltage to the spindle at a higher frequency I believe. It's possible it's generating noise on the power line. It's also possible it's generating RF noise. You can shield any RF noise by putting the VFD inside a metal enclosure (could even be wire) and grounding the enclosure. If you used shielded cable and grounded the spindle, that should not emit any RF. You can prevent noise from getting back to the power line in other ways, but I'm not as familiar with those.

:D

I have a FM radio sitting over the controller in which everything is housed including the VFD - never faced any interference - but the LCD screen sitting next to the VFD sure gets affected with a little blurr- thats all

Does anyone has interferences problems with this spindle & VFD?

My neighbor is having interferences problems with his FM radio since I am using the spindle. He call AT&T thinking that was the problem, AT&T refers him to the electric company. Now they are monitoring interferences with a weird box next to the electric meter.

Now, here is the deal. He is having problems since I got the spindle, so I think that I am the problem... (the spindle).

If the VFD is working at 400 mhz that would make sense since that is FCC matters under those frequencies. Now I understand why FCC certification label is on every electronics not related with radios... guess what, nobody certified ours spindles or VFD.

If someone knows the solution to shield that particular problem, please let me know.

Thanks.
First off, are you using shielded cable ? Would be useful to know if the interferiance is through the air or through your electrical supply.

So, where does one get the shielded flexible power cable?
Thanks

I made mine, bought the cable and the shielding from MacMaster.

David

David, Did you get my PM?

David, Did you get my PM?

Yes, I sent you an email direct - did you get it?

David

Sorry, I never got it. I even checked spam. Check the address carefully and try resend. don't use & If I don't hear from you shortly, I will PM you with the address again.

BTW: Thanks for the McMaster hint.

guys, what kind of cooling liquid do you use for your spindle? plain water, plain water + chemical, or car radiator coolant?

All you need is plain water if there are no mixed metals (Aluminium + Copper, for example.) - If there are mixed metals then you should use a corrosion inhibitor.

VFD noise.. Doing this on the cheep is great.

but I'm betting most have been connecting the controller up directly to AC in and then driectly out to the VFD correct?

Proper ways to do this to minimize noise are:

to add input and putput line reactors:
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/AC_Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_AC_Line_Reactors

And an EMI input filter:
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/AC_Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_EMI_-z-_RF_Filters

That should take care of noise with your neighbor..

If you don't like your neighbor (or perhaps even if you do) and if it isn't effecting anything in your house I'd perhaps say who cares. Hopefully what you do with the power once it's inside your house is your buisness. Let the power company put a filter on his power meter if they can't solve it otherwise.

I put the filters on my system from the start. So not sure if they help or not. mostly I did it to avoid damage to my own / other electronic equipment in the house.



b.

guys, what kind of cooling liquid do you use for your spindle? plain water, plain water + chemical, or car radiator coolant?

I used ready mixed coolant that is used for water cooled computers.

David

Flow Sensor & Water Temp

Hey Gang,
I have seen the ThermalTake Flow Sensor CL-W0138 for about $30 that has a visual indicator and a digital temp display. Has anyone tried to use one of these with the water cooled spindle? I read some reviews and one guy said his leaked, but most people said they work pretty good for PC cooling systems. Thanks

Russ
CNCMAN172

Thanks for the photo on how you grounded your spindle. Did you also you 12 AWG wire for your spindle? Taylormade said he used 12 AWG, but when I measure the solder pots on the spindle connector they seem to be designed for 14 AWG max. The 3KW spindle according the the EBAY specs pulls 12A, so that also seems to suggest that 14 AWG would carry the load. Thanks for any experience you have had with your spindle. I am preparing to wire it up but have not got my shielded cable yet. Thanks

CNCMAN172
Russ






I use a large Earth strap - Like you would use on the copper pipes in your house only larger.

(Pictured is two standard ones to get the size, but I now have one which is large enough on its own so it is possible to get them.)

can anyone give me some idea how much import duty you have to pay
to import a spindle into the united states?
thanks paul
woodguy7777@gmail.com

they seem to be a few different types of chinese spindles from what i have read
on this forum. i am try to get information on what is considered the best brand
i was told a company called Sing Chen produce a good quality spindle.
does anyone has any experience with there spindles?
also do you know where i can find these spindles online?
thanks paul
i also found this on ebay not sure if they are any good
http://cgi.ebay.com/3KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-ENGRAVING-MILLING-GRIND_W0QQitemZ230354695049QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090707?IMSfp=TL090707184003r10915
the attached thumbnail is of the Sing Chen spindle.
woodguy7777@gmail.com

I have the Sing Chen 3.3 hp . it works great. no problems. It has been up and running for about 2 months. very quiet. I would suggest to get a pump/chiller to go with the water cooled spindle. much easier to get the correct pump matched to the spindle than to spend money and time like i did at first.
The Sing Chen brand is a more expensive than some of the others

Thanks for the photo on how you grounded your spindle. Did you also you 12 AWG wire for your spindle? Taylormade said he used 12 AWG, but when I measure the solder pots on the spindle connector they seem to be designed for 14 AWG max. The 3KW spindle according the the EBAY specs pulls 12A, so that also seems to suggest that 14 AWG would carry the load. Thanks for any experience you have had with your spindle. I am preparing to wire it up but have not got my shielded cable yet. Thanks

CNCMAN172
Russ
I only have the 1.5KW spindle, but I think the cable I used was 0.75mm^2 - Not sure what that is in AWG. It was just some cable that I had lying around, I didn't put too much thought into sizing it as these spindles only use the maximum rated current under full load.

Aside from that, the connectors are actually massively under-rated - They are only rated to 50V.

can anyone give me some idea how much import duty you have to pay
to import a spindle into the united states?
thanks paul
woodguy7777@gmail.com
I asked the seller I bought mine off about this and I was told that the packages are very rarely searched. They arrive as a "gift" of "low value". ;)

XingChen brand http://xcspindle.com/


Rabbit brand http://spindle.diytrade.com/sdp/613434/4/pd-3165443/5714585.html

http://chinaspindle.com/


Here are the other brands
http://vanward.co.kr/

http://stappenmotor.nl/Steppermotor/HF%20Spindles%20high%20speed%20motor/CNC%20HF%20Spindle/CNC%20HF%20Spindle.html


http://www.fischerprecise.com/high-speed-spindles.html this company in the usa

Hi taylormade
thanks for the information. where did you purchase your spindle from?
thanks paul

Tigertec ask for david slowiski

715-577-4300
715-723-7647

Hi taylormade
thanks for the information. where did you purchase your spindle from?
thanks paul

When you buy the spindle, you need to ask them if they use the NSK bearing or a good quality bearing. If it is not a good one, you may run less a year, you will get problem

http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindleandController.html

keling,

on ebay your 6 hp spindle has Bearing Type: 2×VEX35 1×VEX25 bearing by snfa

my spindle also has this bearinng. Is this a good quality bearing? I hope so.

thanks

I am a very worried customer of linearmotionbearings2008 I have paid the guy through paypal for the following items:
Chai Guixuan
RM.320 XIECHENG BUILDING, NO. 778 LONGQUAN ROAD,BEICHEN DISTR.
Tianjin
Tianjin
300000
China
+86 02226755283
linearmotionbearings2008@yahoo.com.cn
Qty Description Unit Price Amount
1 RM2505-600/1100/1600mm with nuts 246.00 246.00

Subtotal: $246.00
Shipping: 149.00
Currency is in U.S. Dollars (USD) Total: $395.00 USD

Chai Guixuan
RM.320 XIECHENG BUILDING, NO. 778 LONGQUAN ROAD,BEICHEN DISTR.
Tianjin
Tianjin
300000
China
+86 02226755283
linearmotionbearings2008@yahoo.com.cn
Qty Description Unit Price Amount
1 2.2kw spindle and VFD inverter 470.00 470.00

Subtotal: $470.00
Shipping: 60.00
Currency is in U.S. Dollars (USD) Total: $530.00 USD

I've paid him on 7/29/2009

2 days ago I email the guy asking when is he going to ship the goods but till now no reply from him, usually he respond to question very fast.
Should I be worry or not guys?

btw those items I have paid are not listed on his store at ebay

http://www.snfa.com/index.php?id=29

2 days ago I email the guy asking when is he going to ship the goods but till now no reply from him, usually he respond to question very fast.
Should I be worry or not guys?


It was the weekend over there and possibly a long weekend - don't know.

I have found they are not that fast at responding regarding orders. Expect it to take 9 to 15 days to get your order - regardless of how fast they say they will ship. It also has to clear customs. I ordered a week ago (26 July here - 27th there) from love-happyshopping and did hear from him last Thursday night that he would ship the next day, but haven't heard from him since with shipping numbers. Another person that purchased from him said 9-14 days. So, get ready for your spindle, get your shielded wire, get your water line and wait a little while. Read the manual for your VFD. Lets us know in two weeks how you like your spindle.

Thank you Quiff that makes me feel better.
But I did order outside of ebay.
anyway what spec gauge etc on the shielded wire? for the pump I just plan to use an aquarium pump is that sufficient enough? or do I need a high tech ones?

With mine, there was about a 5 or 6 day period where "love happy joy joy" did not respond, but then all of a sudden they started to reply and the shipment came in. Took about 12 days. Everything arrived AOK.

I used 4 wire 16 gauge shielded wire for my spindle. For the coolant pump I had a little giant pump kicking around but that was way too much, so I had to bleed it off a lot. 1 litre per minute is fine.

thanks for the info analogman, he did finally reply. I will have to look for a much smaller aquarium pump.

Has anyone tried overclocking one of these spindles? Like to 500Hz. ~32000 RPM?

15MGTAR - make sure the pump has enough lift.

Team,
I have been in contact with Aoran Bai one of the ebay sellers of the water cooled spindles and VFDs. I shared with him a detailed account of the issues concerning the modbus standard and the fact that the VFD did not have this implemented using the published standards. I also provided the latest documents detailing the modbus standards, message formats, etc.

Aoran contacted the factory and the factory provided two items. The first is an updated document on the modbus implementation and the second was suppose to be a software update, however I have not tried this as it showed up in my mail this morning. The software is located in a packed file called HLP-AC.rar. This is the link for the software

Please also download the software from the following link:
http://jinlan.chongwufang.com/HLP-AC.rar
please install it.

When I examine the contents of the RAR file it appears to be a windows application, but I am not sure if this updates the firmware or if this is just a windows app that talks over their version of RS485.

Here is the small Word document with the updates on Modbus as provided by the factory.

I know another person has written a small VB application called Spindle Talker that allows you to talk to the VFD, but I am hoping this fixes the firmware so it can communicate directly with MACH3 CNC software.

Someone who has their unit setup and has been playing with Modbus can you please test this software and give us all a report. Thanks

CNCMAN172
Russ

Thanks, I ordered from him. Have not received it yet, but it is nice to know he is helping get the issue resolved.

Quiff,

The VFD that controls the spindle from Huanyang only lets you go up to 400 hertz so you can not attempt to overclock it which their VFD without some kind of firmware update that allow higher frequency.

Unlike a PC where you often hear about overclocking processors this is probably a little more tricky. If you had another companies VFD you might get the spindle to spin faster, provided you had enough current and cooling, water or air depending on the spindle.

CNCMAN172

My Seig KX1 CNC mill that I bought from Littlemachineshop.com has been busy making a number of mounts for people around the world for the Chinese spindles with 65mm and 80mm diameters.

The first two images are for the 65mm diameter spindles like the 1.5kw air cooled and the 0.8kw water cooled and the second two images are for the 80mm diameter spindles like the 2.2kw water cooled.

When I originally built these two mounts for my 1.5kw and 2.2kw spindles I never realized I would be making so many duplicates :)

David

CNCMan172: Thanks for that information. As I haven't received mine yet, I was just wondering if it was possible. I also believe that 100 Hz. is the minimum frequency for the motor = 8000 rpm.

David: Looking forward to receiving the mount you built for me. Isn't CNC fantastic. You draw one for yourself, and I hope you have to build hundreds for others. I appreciate how easy you are to deal with and the updates. Thanks Again.

I believe that 100Hz would result in the spindle running at 6,000RPM.

Wondering if you guys would know if it's possible to lock the spindle "electrically" with the VFD? I have an application where a smaller high speed spindle will be mounted to the end of the VFD spindle which needs to be held stationary.
Probably would have to have an encoder feedback of some kind and/or an electric brake?
Or would anyone have an idea on locking the spindle mechanically?
May have to mount the auxiliary spindle to the "VFD spindle" housing rather than it's spindle?
Any and all ideas appreciated.
Thanks

Why don't you purchase a spindle extension from e-bay and mount it to the spindle bracket.

Long story but I'll try to keep it short as possible: I'm carving spruce using a 3/4" diameter ball nose cutter which leaves tearout at the center of the tool path where there is theoretically zero SFPM. That's OK for the rough cuts but for finish cuts I need a reasonably good clean cut. What I'm looking at doing is mounting an auxiliary high speed spindle to the VFD spindle at an angle of about 30 degrees. This would let the ball nose produce the finish cut at that angle off of centerline where there is some surface speed. The placement of the auxiliary spindle would be such that the centerline of the "ball" on the cutter would be on centerline of the VFD spindle thus maintaining the same XY offsets for the job. The auxiliary spindle would be a quick mount to allow removal for roughing the next part.

I know, I'm digging up an old post here...
I just finished reading this whole thread (phew) and this subject hasn't really been talked about much...
I get from 0 up to 24000 RPM.
...
Usable is from about 6000 and up.
Can you please expand on this a little bit?
What happens at speeds lower than 6000 RPM? I know you have the 2.2kW water cooled spindle so I'm assuming you are not worried about overheating.

If the minimum speed is roughly 6000 RPM, what do all of you do if you need to drill something or use some other tool that needs low RPMs?

thanks for the info analogman, he did finally reply. I will have to look for a much smaller aquarium pump.

Well unfortunately up till now I haven't receive my spindle and vxd yet. Chai used EMS to send my things (VERY BAD CHOICE), been 8 days at customs and they haven't even check it yet. The way the customs work here is with $$$. no $$$ they just store it away till xmas.

Argh, that's a drag!

I bet if Chai knew the service you would receive by using EMS would be poor he would have used a different carrier.

Well unfortunately up till now I haven't receive my spindle and vxd yet. Chai used EMS to send my things (VERY BAD CHOICE), been 8 days at customs and they haven't even check it yet. The way the customs work here is with $$$. no $$$ they just store it away till xmas.

Mine took 3 weeks from the time I ordered it to the time I got it. Most of that time was in Canadian Customs (about 7 days) and Canada postal service. That was after the week it took him to send it to me. He sent using EMS also [I doubt there is any other at a reasonable price]. Don't blame the sender for problems with YOUR Country's Customs people unless he added a fee for bribe money to your initial price.

Not a problem with my delivery time as I am still waiting for the mount David made for me to clear Canada Customs. He had to do some special work for my mounting brackets, otherwise he could have sent it quite a bit earlier. Great guy to deal with and would certainly recommend him to all here.

Surprising how heavy the spindle is! I have jury rig mounted the spindle and it has cut a few pieces of wood. I am quite happy with the spindle, although I had to change PD144 to 3125, not 3000 as some had been told to, to get a readout of 25000 RPM @ 400Hz.

Somewhere way back in the thread someone asked how much noise it made.
The best I can do is to say it makes less noise than my refrigerator and about the same as the submersible pump that feeds the water to the motor from the 5 gallon pail. I can hear it running, but just. It makes the same sound as a brushless electric motor - that is, what it is, after all.
Now, cutting is a different sound, one can actually hear the bit cutting and the axis motors turning. It is wonderfully quiet compared to a trim type router or even a regular router. I have not tried cutting/drilling below 8000 RPM, so can't say why that is the lower limit, but I would suspect one could go slower if they paid attention to the heat factor. There isn't a huge stream of water exiting the spindle - I may need to fix that, but I used a 350 gallon 6' lift pump with 1/4" lines.

Was it worth the $ and the wait, YES. I should have done it sooner!
Hope you get your spindle soon 15mgtar.
:cheers:

although I had to change PD144 to 3125, not 3000 as some had been told to, to get a readout of 25000 RPM @ 400Hz.
I always thought they were 24,000RPM spindles ?

That would explain it. Somehow, I had 25000 in my head as the top speed. Changed it back to the CORRECT value 3000 and it does display 24000. Thanks, very much yngndrw.

Keith

Ok now my spindle finally came I had to claim them at the post office etc.
But I had a problem the spindle's water pipings were broken as you can see in the pic below. So guys how do I fix that mess? I haven't try the vxd yet but hopefully is not broken.

Ok now my spindle finally came I had to claim them at the post office etc.
But I had a problem the spindle's water pipings were broken as you can see in the pic below. So guys how do I fix that mess? I haven't try the vxd yet but hopefully is not broken.


From what I've read, the seller is very easy to work with. You should contact him and see what he is willing to do for you.

Ok now my spindle finally came I had to claim them at the post office etc.
But I had a problem the spindle's water pipings were broken as you can see in the pic below. So guys how do I fix that mess? I haven't try the vxd yet but hopefully is not broken.I don't want to imagine what the box looked like. Was it opened for inspection by customs? It looks like it bounced off a concrete floor.