Hello,
I'm new here and trying to help my father to have his x4+ running . I'm french so pardon my errors ...

First I installed the mach 3 software (following the procedure ,rebooted etc...) no big problems there apart that I fought for a complete day to get rid of vista on the computer (because of it's being too clever to be usefriendly and not compatible with anything ...)
So got that running with a pci card for the 25 pin parrallel ports everything ok got several xml profile from syil website (canade , marican ant the chinese one) got that to run with the loader allright .

And now comes the crunch I fought for several hours already trying to get things to work and I have no answer (no motion) from the x4+ .
I checked that I was using the right port number but that's ok because the physical emergency stop and the home switches work fine the diag screen makes them go on and off when I touch them .
But if i try to make a manual jog (with the tab instrument window) or if I insert a simple code in IMD mode nothing moves (g0 z10) even the spindle doesn't move (m03 s200 ) it is in cnc mode on the x4 .

The machine works fine in manual everything moves happily in continious mode the spindle turn nicely . The steppers motor get warm (perhaps a bit too much... not too hot to touch but hot not warm!)
The only thing that I am suspecting at the moment are the power supply...

Is it normal that the red led is on the controler (three led on each of the four controler)?

Is it normal that the fans on both power supply don't move when the machine is on ? (no dangling wire found)

I'm after any advice :)

Thank you very much for your help

Check that you charge pump is being seen by the machine. When the machine in in CNC mode it will say "READY" on the blue screen but if it is seeing the charge pump signal there should also be a little symbol of a computer on the X4's blue screen.
If this symbol isn't there make sure the charge pump pin is set up in ports and pins in Mach 3. If this is OK you might have to adjust the pot on the board that the charge pump signal goes to.(I had to do this). There is a reference to this in the instructions.

Thanks for the reply.

The screen on the X4 lights up blue but there is absolutely nothing written on it totally empty :( .

Thanks for the reply.

The screen on the X4 lights up blue but there is absolutely nothing written on it totally empty :( .

Well that's not normal. You said the machine works fine in manual - is the screen working properly in manual?

No even in manual mode i'm playing with it totally blind , all blue screen ,nothing written and never has been . Care was taken when installing and we are certain there was no damage.

Should be something on the display screen, and you should be able to JOG in non- CNC mode.
Check all the wiring for loose plugs, connections, internal cables etc.
Check emergency stop is not killing it.
Get it to function without the PC attached, then take the next step.
There is a jumper to disable the charge pump, but you should make it work correctly once the fault is found.

The manual Jog works fine , I just click 4 times to be in cont mode and make my way through by guessing in what mode I am .

The emergency button is the only thing working properly and that mach 3 understands very well .

I am actualy looking at the board wiring with the instructions given with the x4 but apart from being very poor quality photos in black and white (very useful to guess what color of the wiring are...) the pictures in the instructions show a quite different version of the boards . I can't verify things are missing on the boards or are not at the same position and hence the connections are not the same . (just an example the cable to the LCD screen is shown as a classic flat wire and what we have is a ethernet cable with a small circuit board in between the original board and the cable , some 3 pin connections are here but in the instruction the two cables are on one side of the conector and in the machine the other side ... )

Don't really know what to do :(

You can download the manual here

http://syil.com.cn/en/Download.asp

I was at 90% of it when I saw your reply :D

Right the download is finished got it open it's the same instruction as i've got but in colour . So it doesn't solve my problem of my circuits not being the same as the one in the manual :(

Did you try contacting Syil on the subject?

feel free to take some pictures of the "CNC board" and email them to me, i will have a look to see what the issue is.

also if you have not done so yet, check your port address in ports and pins settings. the default address is 0x378, if you have installed a parallel card the address will be different. check in the windows device manager for the parallel card address, make sure it is the same in the ports and pins settings.

keith@syil.ca
or give me a call @ 403-400-7945

i attached a photo how to disable the mach3 charge pump try this and see if you get movement.

I've disabled the charge pump .

Mach 3 now perfectly works the machine moves and accept all the gcodes in IMD mode no problem.

Still nothing on the screen of the miller though.

I'm trying to set mach 3 in mm at the moment .

Good to see you got it working.
The display/electronics must not be working.
You have disabled the charge pump.
Eventually you want the charge pump signal from Mach3 to do it's intended job of killing the machine if the PC dies.
Fix the charge pump last. Probably programmed to the wrong pin, or not enabled in the config screen.

Just fiddled a bit again and found the contrast on the display but not matter the position is goes full blue to full white nothing written.

The big difference on the display board is that the lead (in the manual) going to the display is a 22pin(or many) flat cable and the one I have on the machine is an ethernet cable .

How should I find the right pin number for the charge pump ? I respected the pins in the manual.

Hi Shannow
From memory I think the charge pump is pin 9. (Coolant is pin 3 I think)

If you have that pin set up then do as I suggested in my first post. On Interface Board II there is a pot (numbered 13 in the picture in the manual). Adjust this until the machine can see the charge pump signal from the computer.

My father has found the problem . It's on the main board , there a little circuit on top of it (with pin connectors holding it 3 of them being soldered as supports ) the larger of the two plugs has a broken plastic surround and we supect that poor contact arises from this .
When we wiggle it with the power off sometimes it gives part screen and for one glorious moment it gave all the screen . Then we switched off and it went back to a quarter screen .

contact syil and get replacement part

I thought my son had followed through but checking the solution to the blank screen problem was the ribbon cable connection between the touch board and LCD screen at the touch board end.

After touching the mother board apparently lighting up part of the screen this proved to be a false lead and I discovered that cleaning the pins on the touch board with a degreasing agent followed by re-assembly and power up resulted in a very brief flash of characters on the screen followed by the Syil logo appearing and closely followed by full screen display. For a start I could have done with knowing this start up sequence as we only had a pure blue screen before.

Syil advised me to change the ribbon cable on a brand new, never used machine that was faulty from delivery. May be I am missing something here but I thought that one buys something that works. It is not up to me to supply new parts to replace faulty ones. If it was not for the size of the machine and distance the solution is simple: I take it back to the Syil agent that sold it to me and get either my money back or a replacement machine and under British law the choice is mine. Ribbon cables are absolutely no problem if you are working or have access to an electronics factory but buying just one made up is quite expensive. As it is I have already bought an RJ45 cable on Syil advice that proved to be unnecessary and an unwanted shopping trip and expense. If the part is so cheap then Syil can send me a new one and if it is very expensive the same applies. I thought trying to solve the problem was a mutual benefit where as it appears that I am on my own in practical terms.

The final outcome was just a poor connection.

I had a wonderful bright light appear in the X axis drive connector near the stepper motor. I saw it switched off and pushed the part of the connector home and the problem did not reoccur.

I also found the Z axis flexible coupling to ball screw loose as the head stayed where it was yet the motor turned with suitable indicated increase it Z.

For those following the thread I apologise for the delay as other activities at this time of the year have taken my attention.

Back in the 50's there was a movie titled " Earth VS Flying Saucers"- Aliens attacked us and only by uniting against this common enemy, did humanity put aside their petty differences. Perhaps Syil is serving the same purpose by selling their machines all over the world.

So if I understand correctly the Chinese are aliens that like Mr McGoo, are partly sighted, hard of hearing and now have my money but otherwise float around with no visible means of support.

i honestly am surprised that they did not offer to send you a replacement cable, iwould call the dealer and ask them to send you a replacement since its new.
you bought it from syil china or syil france?

The machine was bought from Syil UK agent. I contacted Syil direct but no offer to replace the cable was made. When I told them what the problem was the reply was; “.... I suggest you replace the cable with a new cable, you should looking for the cable in the local market.”

There is no Syil agent in France as far as I know. Generally French businesses add a very healthy profit margin so much so that I buy in the UK and either arrange shipping or collect merchandise myself as it is considerably cheaper even for just one machine and tourist tariffs on the channel crossing.

when you say you contacted syil direct you mean syil china? if so i would contact syil uk, they should replace it since the machine is new.

The snag with Syil UK is that for all intents and purposes he is a one man firm and I know he has not got spares. He sells the machines and makes no pretence that he does just that. He will have to contact China as I did and Syil China is evidently thinking supplying faulty goods is not their concern.

yes well i dont know but that is not your problem its his, he sells the machine he should honor is product no mather if he is a one man team or not

Thanks for your thoughts and view point.
Do not worry; I know how to create hell although it is true that all companies settled out of court once I got moving.
Now that this matter has been aired I will wait and see if anything happens as I know this forum is watched by Syil UK and I think also Syil China.
I am not too bothered as the LCD screen is working and I know what the likely fault will be. No doubt Syil UK thinks as the screen is working there is no need to exchange but clearly Syil China thinks the cable should be replaced.
What I did was relate my experiences on the forum so that anybody interested can be warned.
May be there will be better news next week when folks get back to work.

I had a faulty mainboard in my X4+. I contacted my local supplier (Toolmach Australia) and through Syil China, provided me a replacement at no cost.

I would assume if Syil UK did the same, then Syil China would supply the parts?

The last guy who talked about court on the Tormach site got his thread removed.

I had a faulty mainboard in my X4+. I contacted my local supplier (Toolmach Australia) and through Syil China, provided me a replacement at no cost.

I would assume if Syil UK did the same, then Syil China would supply the parts?

The last guy who talked about court on the Tormach site got his thread removed.

Look closely. The company name was Toolmach, NOT Tormach.

CR.

Look closely. The company name was Toolmach, NOT Tormach.

CR.

CR-
I was referring to a thread on the Tormach site from a guy who ordered a PC1100 machine with lathe attachment- he was unhappy about the mill and the lathe was never delivered- he threatened to sue, and the moderators quickly deleted the entire thread under threat from Tormach's lawyer- they promised to update everyone on the outcome, but it looks like it has been swept under the rug. The companies who pay for these banner ads will be protected from criticism by the forum moderators.

Hi smallblock.

I know what you were referring to, and it's not relevant to this thread. Also, that Tormach thread was removed at the REQUEST of the original poster--It was NOT removed by company pressure--Keep your facts straight please.

The originator of the thread requested the removal. Both parties are actively working toward mutual resolution. There will be a statement posted in the forum on the situation as soon as possible.

CR.

Hi smallblock.

I know what you were referring to, and it's not relevant to this thread. Also, that Tormach thread was removed at the REQUEST of the original poster--It was NOT removed by company pressure--Keep your facts straight please.



CR.

Actually, there was never a post from the original complainer about the removal. It was the forum moderator who claimed it was removed by MUTUAL agreement between the buyer and Tormach. The fact remains that the forum has not delivered the promised update on the issue and my money says they won't.
As far as relevance goes, we will have to see how the problem is handled by Syil- if the guy isn't happy and starts yelling lawsuit, most likely Syil will take notes from Tormach and pressure the moderators to dump this thread as well.

To date Syil don't seem to have taken the criticism or complaints by people in a hard headed fashion and have always, on the face of it, tried to offer a solution.

Whether they act upon the criticism in a positive manner and rectify the problems in future machines is another matter though.

There has been e-mail contact from Syil UK since I originally posted the problem solution and things are on the move.
As we have Sunday to get through and I am in France there will be a postal delay before I can confirm closure of this matter. Possibly Friday 9 January I might be ready to sign off this problem.
The base line is that things have moved since I posted on the forum and looking good.

Syil UK was extremely quick to e-mail me at just gone 01H00 CET Saturday following the thread discussion. Let me also reveal that correspondence was being exchanged on Saturday up to 23H00 CET during the same day to be sure that details were right. This represents a very much “out of hours” service.

I was right that Syil UK thought the situation to be closed as the problem was apparently solved.

Syil UK tells me he does hold a modest stock and cannibalises machines to send out parts quickly as required. He is running a business well enough to be snowed under so for any potential buyer my appraisal stands: Syil UK sells machines and will honestly do what he can but he is not a machinist.

I rather have a “don’t know” and offer to find out than ill informed advice.

I am trying to help by feedback that might assist others including Syil UK as I am finding answers to questions.

The cable arrived on Thursday 8 January having been posted on Monday of the same week, effectively the next post. It was fitted immediately and the problem of black, all blue or partial screen has not yet re-occurred. As the fault may be provoked by vibration, I have tried the motor and Z axis movements using MPG.

To date the screen has remained stable and fully operational.

The final conclusion may take a couple of days to be reasonably certain that the fault has been cleared.

At this stage it would appear that it was just a poor ribbon cable that was causing all the problems with the screen.

As a point of information the start up sequence is a brief flash of ghost data that is instantly replaced by the Syil logo and company title that itself is replaced by a data status display between four to five seconds after switch on.

Whilst I believe many users will think of this as obvious for us it was not. Had we known that an all blue screen was not normal and that status data should appear without configuration or prompting we would have realised we had a fault condition from the out -set. Thorough manuals contain start up and progressions exactly and this especially applies to items such as military aircraft and equipment. This establishes that the equipment is in serviceable condition.

The final line for the time being is the problem was a ribbon cable and Syil UK replaced by next post.

[QUOTE=Hillfrog;549958] Thorough manuals contain start up and progressions exactly and this especially applies to items such as military aircraft and equipment. This establishes that the equipment is in serviceable condition.
QUOTE]

Hi

I wonder what is the relevance of the above statement?
OK a 100% complete manual to cover all eventualities would be great but you didn't pay "military aircraft" levels of pricing so why would you expect this level of documentation?


It seems to me that you came on here looking for help (which you got) before you even contacted Syil, threatening legal action etc...
I can't understand why people continually seem to do this on here.

It's a fact of life that equipment will fail at some time or other. What's important is that there is a good level of support when that happens - even if that is just information. I think you would have gotten this quicker had you gone through the proper channels first.

Just my 2 cents....

Firstly I never threatened legal action; I said I knew how and had started action in the past with less than honest companies. Buying machinery for forty years I can confirm that one finds good and bad vendors. In general it has been a pleasure to buy machinery having found interested and helpful people. I have no problems with Syil UK.

I note that the Syil X4 Plus in money terms is easily the most expensive machine I have bought and over sixty times that of my first lathe complete with every accessory listed. I still have that lathe.

The manual that comes with the Syil X plus is the worst quality I have ever seen as what appears to be multiple generation photocopy. Through internet download we got a much better quality and colour copy of the same. My lathes in particular came with a professional quality comprehensive parts list and set up procedure with clear illustrations.

I can well understand that a detailed manual takes a lot of time and effort to produce; I wrote several military and aerospace manuals during my career. I had to include such information that a plumb line always points straight down or a spirit level shows level for graduates who missed these simple points. Debriefing repetition of these statements was followed by a silence and dreadful realisation that electronics were giving a false indication and could be reset to a whisky phial and bit of string.

Today a website manual could be updated to any reader in a matter of a few minutes on a global basis and apart from network fees has practically no printing or distribution costs. There is no manual with MACH III for example but we simply down loaded and we have extensive text and illustrations. The same could be done for the Syil X4 plus and offering a manual second to none.

I thought that using CNCzone as advised by Syil UK would and did help solve problems. Syil China was informed what the machine number was, where and when I bought it in the first communication hence they had all the necessary information to redirect through “proper” channels if what I had done was not acceptable.

Finding what was at fault took a couple of weeks and had one false lead although this finally led me to find out where the problem was.

I conscientiously completed the thread in CNCzone so that others could read the final outcome.

Syil UK tells me he is assembling a data base. I have sent Syil UK shots of unloading my machine and installation. As I took my Syil X4 Plus through the channel tunnel in a domestic vehicle there may be others that could benefit from this experience. In the same way I moved the machine down a wooden staircase and through doorways of standard 700 mm opening photographing these manoeuvres. Syil UK has a few of these shots and knows I have more if he has a client that is interested.

If I master this machine then I will probably feedback results and methods. At the moment I am very busy machining on my conventional and larger milling machine adjacent to the Syil X4 Plus to clear other projects. If I can get the Syil to work I will probably be using both machines.

I never threatened legal action, I went through Syil advised channels and the manual quality is the worst I have seen in forty years.

It's a fact of life that equipment will fail at some time or other. What's important is that there is a good level of support when that happens - even if that is just information. I think you would have gotten this quicker had you gone through the proper channels first.

I never took Hillfrog's actions/comments on here other than reasonable. He was looking at all possible avenues to resolve a problem with his new machine. Hugh will have been assisting in any way he could and pointing towards this forum is one of them.

There's a large difference between component failure and badly produced. Anyone with these machines not suffering from wiring problems is extremely lucky.

Thanks for that; I try to be fair and Hugh (Syil UK) has done well taking this little storm in a teacup in his stride dealing with it very quickly. I am giving him feedback advising that so far the replacement ribbon cable is refusing to malfunction and so far the screen stays resolutely on and complete.

The previous posting is very valuable to me as I was beginning to think I had got the last turkey in the shop. The forum is a great way of finding out that we (father and son) are not alone.

Off thread; one on hand project is a nearly complete five inch gauge 51 kg DZ wagon as seen on WHR.

I never took Hillfrog's actions/comments on here other than reasonable. He was looking at all possible avenues to resolve a problem with his new machine. Hugh will have been assisting in any way he could and pointing towards this forum is one of them.

There's a large difference between component failure and badly produced. Anyone with these machines not suffering from wiring problems is extremely lucky.


I guess I'm one of the so caalledd lucky ones so. I've had no kind of wiring issues with my X4+. ( I have it since last March / April)

Now when I did get it I was mindful of the fact that it had travelled half way around the world through a few couriers hands so I checked all connections before powering it on - I didn't find any loose or poor connections though.


I think you are making an assumption to say a broken connection on a ribbon cable is badly produced - you have no idea where that damage happened and given the tortuous route teh machine took to get to it's final destination it quite possible it could have been caused by a handling issue.

I think we will probably have to agree to disagree on the how and when, but from experience and not just with the Syil wiring, a properly crimped and latched in ribbon cable is fairly resistant to transportation operations. My own SX3 (bless the spindle reversing when you don't want it to lovable hunk of metal) had a problem with the very short interconnecting cable on the speed controller card...the locking latches on the pins weren't sufficiently protruding into the housing slots and caused them to ride up the pins when the connector was pushed on. This in my case, meant one pin had intermittent contact and sometimes I'd get ERROR displayed.

That in my book is bad cable assembly production.

Bad cable assembly and bad crimping by incorrect crimping tools were ALL of the problems on my machine. Then there were loose screws - 50% of them, and one nut fell off and killed a power supply during warranty.
In my experience ALL screws installed in production need to be done with a torque controlled screw driver. After doing up screws for 2 hours you lose feel and can no longer do the job correctly, and this does not apply just to me, unless I am defective.

[QUOTE=Hillfrog;546307]The machine was bought from Syil UK agent. I contacted Syil direct but no offer to replace the cable was made. When I told them what the problem was the reply was; “.... I suggest you replace the cable with a new cable, you should looking for the cable in the local market.”

-------------------------------------------------
could you let me konw who reply this emails?
please sent this email to sales@syil.com.cn
ask your find a cable it is impossible i think.......
give me a email
xushuo

sometime i didn`t see the forum during the time or other matters.
but it is not mean we are ignore customers or drop them.so if anyone have questions,better directly email to us.thank you for your understand.
xushuo
SyiL China.

:bs::bs:.

anyway it should be standard procedure when you get a new machine nomather the price to check all bolt, bearing, screw, connector, wire and sliding surface to make sure that everything is in order.

I have waited six weeks to see if the screen problem reoccurred and to date it has not. It is reasonable to suppose that the ribbon cable was faulty and that the replacement via Syil UK is OK.

I take issue that it should be standard procedure to check every single nut bolt and screw on a new machine. There is an expression for companies that sell machinery that requires this; the expression is “went bust”. I have bought several new machines and professionally taken delivery of dozens of machines. I expect to start up and go in minimum time. If that is not so then I would look round for a company that sells a machine in merchantable condition. In the UK the vender has a responsibility to sell a machine fit for the purpose it was sold for. What I have done is try to take care of relatively minor faults in conjunction with the supplier as an amicable arrangement.

I think that if I wanted another machine from Syil UK I would go back to him and I think he would be happy to sell again to me.

There are still niggles but basically the machine is up and running thanks to help offered by members of this forum and Syil UK.