I'm starting a new thread to talk about specific tools, techniques, and things you need to know about using structural extrusions, since I've used many tons of the stuff over the last 8 or 9 years building everything from guard fences to tool racks to full-blown automatic systems for loading cast iron V-8 cylinder blocks onto the machines my company makes.

There are MANY suppliers of this stuff. Bosch, Parker IPS, AMC Quik Connect, Item Products, MK (German), fall out of my memory without even looking at my catalog pile.

80-20 is one of the better ones for us to use, since they will sell on-line and have a very complete catalog of accessories.

As I remember, 80-20 once (and maybe still) will offer to "kit" your design, i.e. doing all the cutting-to-length and machining.

If this is so, pay them to do it.

It is essential that the cuts on the ends be very flat and very square to make structures that line up right. If I had to cut it myself, I would use a "chop saw" with a carbide-tip blade, and make a series of trial cuts until I had the saw adjusted just right. Since I own a milling machine, I use that when I'm playing with the stuff at home. A milling machine is also the only tool to do the drilling and counterboring that is necessary for using the butt-connector parts that are common with this material.

Hence I recommend again that, if 80-20 will do the machining work for you, use that service. Unless you own or can access the right machine tools. It is not really possible to do the machining work well enough with hand tools.

(If you design so you can use corner-brackets for right-angle joining, you have a chance to avoid the machining problem. Put on your thinking cap!)

40mm x 40mm tube is not stiff enough for our router frames where the tube would be more than about 24" unsupported length. The 40x80 is MUCH stiffer, but of course more expensive.

The anodized surface will work fine a guideway when the mating slide is faced with teflon or nylon, as in the 80-20 "flange" linear bearings. But if you ever cut composites, like MDF, fibreglass, or carbon fibre, or even plywood, the swarf will score the aluminum very quickly. Room for careful design of way covers here!

Most of these companies one or more designs which add a steel element to the aluminum, to make a long-lived guideway. I don't see that in my old 80-20 catalog, but check it out - they may have added some since.

All for now - I'm supposed to be working !

Phil

Phil:

I worked at 80/20 for 11 years and am now with their new division, 80/20 Surplus. We sell factory second hand material at discounted prices on E-Bay.
In regards to 80/20 and your comments above, 80/20 will still "kit package" your order as long as you state this. As for the 40mm x 40mm not being stiff enough for your router frame, have you tried the 1530 (1.5" x 3.0") material or do you need the metric stuff? Check out what we have to offer at www.8020.net and click on the "Garage Sale" icon at the bottom of the page. Listings are added practically every day. If you need something that you do not see on our page, e-mail us.


Thanks,

Tim Cain
80/20 Surplus

There are other players out there that can offer everything that 8020 can offer factory direct. Look into TSLOTS at www.tslots.com. They are an aluminum extruder.
How many divisions does 8020 have now?

Hello Chip Sweeper:
I'm just offering help to people who may not have any experience working with this material. You and I have similar experience - you selling it, and me using it. I've already built my router, so I'm no longer in the market as a buyer. Plus I get lots of leftovers from the shops I deal with for work.

Yes, I was on the 80-20 Web site a little while ago, and I see that 80-20 does still offer the "kitting", under the "services" button.

Not a bad idea, selling leftovers and drops on eBay. I buy bits of specialty steels from a place called Speedy Metals that does the same thing. Making such small parts as I do, I never need enough to make the minimum at a steel service center.

Cheers!

I agree, if there are leftovers to sell then more power to you.

I just wanted to make viewers aware that you can now purchase through 80/20 Surplus as well. We do have 97" length bars and will be getting more in tomorrow or early next week. We are just like 80/20 Inc. in that we do not have a minimum order quantity requirement.

Thanks,

Tim Cain

I bought some items on ebay and it was very nice. I saw a small extrusion error on it but the error was in the t-slot and didn't change the function of the part. I would highly recommend these guys.

Allen

Best way to cut ? I have a bunch of woodworking tools, and a 14" abrasive wheel chop saw, whats the best set up for this stuff? What kind of saw? A 14" chop saw with a regular carbide tipped wood blade? How many TPI? What about my bandsaw? I have a metal cutting blade for it. Thanks.

Best way to cut ? I have a bunch of woodworking tools, and a 14" abrasive wheel chop saw, whats the best set up for this stuff? What kind of saw? A 14" chop saw with a regular carbide tipped wood blade? How many TPI? What about my bandsaw? I have a metal cutting blade for it. Thanks.

I'm also interested in this. I have a 10" miter saw, and I'm not sure of what blade to go with when cutting my 80/20.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004T7AA/qid=1114261574/br=1-15/ref=br_lf_hi_15//103-1453488-2954223?v=glance&s=hi&n=552320

You want a blade with a triple chip tooth style, and for a miter saw, preferably a negative rake angle to prevent the blade from grabbing the piece.

Do I need to buy a new blade? Wont my bandsaw cut it OK? I did find a Universal Cut Anything blade at firsteditionproducts.com that claims to cut any type of metal, but I'd rather use something I allready have.

You can cut it with a band saw, but you may find the ends are not going to be very square after.
That's why most people use a mitre saw/chop saw with the correct non-ferrous blade in it. Aluminum is terible for "pick-up" meaning it grabs and sticks to everything when you cut or mill it. It is wise to purchase the right blade for mitre saws or you may seriously harm yourself.

It is wise to purchase the right blade for mitre saws or you may seriously harm yourself.

What can happen with a mitre saw when cutting aluminum? Any tips/tricks for clamping it, getting a good clean cut? Safety tips?

If your miter saw has a set of clamps available for it then you might want to look into getting them, otherwise hold it down good and snug and go for it. Use a carbide blade with a high tooth count and zero rake angle tooth set. A blade designed for non-ferrous metals is what you are needing. Unlike cutting wood, USE a pair of saftey googles, chips will get where you don't want them (Murphys Law). Also wear a winter (non mesh) ball cap if you don't want chips in your hair, they are a bear to dig out.

Oh well, what the %$&* another 85.00. I geusse I'll set up a miter saw for aluminum. Ive been using an abrasive wheel on a chop saw, but it wouldnt do this 80/20 justice. Sometimes I wonder if Ill ever have all the tools I need. This metalworking stuff is one expensive hobby. I cant even imagine how many thousands Ive spent.

$20,000 Plus ...........and counting :)

You can NEVER have too many tools. I just tell the wife that it's been here all along, it was just burried amongst the stuff, " see the layer of dust and dirt".

Note: never clean off your tools, leave them get dirty.

I just tell the wife that it's been here all along

I must have just been lucky and got myself a good woman then! The other day, when shopping for my new mitre saw, she says "If the more expensive one is going to last longer, why wouldn't you spend the extra? I could even pay half." I gotta marry that girl!! :D

Definitely don't let that one get away, marry her before it's too late

Theyre all that way BEFORE you get married.

Theyre all that way BEFORE you get married.

Seems like wedding cake is the best form of birth control! :D

Theyre all that way BEFORE you get married.

Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/rotflmao.gif

Yes:

80/20 will still do custom kits to order. They do this all of the time. You can save quite a bit of money by having it ship via UPS and having it cut right than paying for truck rates which are high and investing in your own cutting equipment.


Tim
80/20 Surplus

What we use here at 80/20 Surplus is a carbide tipped 14" blade. It is rated at 2800 min. - 6400 max rpm. Be sure when cutting to squirt some cutting oil on the blade before and during cutting. This will allow you to get a much better smoother cut.


80/20 Surplus

I've used ordinary wood-cutting carbide-tipped blades on aluminum for many, many years. They work just fine, unless you cut real soft aluminum, which can bond to the carbide, (i.e. "load up"). But the type of aluminum used by 80-20 and all the other extrusion makers, while it doesn't cut like 2024 or 7075 alloys do, does not give me any problems at all. If you won't mind the mess, go the local mill-supply house and buy some "soluble oil" metalworking fluid. Mix about 10% soluble oil with 90% water, and squirt it into the cut with a pumper oilcan. The saw will sprasy this around, so take precautions, especially don't get it in your eyes.

Woodcutting blades have lots of side relief, so there's no chance of getting "loading" on the sides of the blade, which is a serious problem when using using metalworking "slotting saws".

Thats what I thought, but last night I spent 90.00 on an aluminum blade. Maybe I can cancel the order, maybe Ill just get it and keep one saw set up just for aluminum.

I got my new aluminum blade today (yeah, that quick) and I am amazed. It goes through the big 1545 stuff like butter. Ive used wood blades before, but they are not the same, it really is worthwhile spending the bucks on a non-ferrous blade.

Sears has 'em for 60 bucks (10")

Sears has 'em for 60 bucks (10")

Why are the non-ferrous blades so expensive? Is it just the coating?

you can buy them almost anywhere. homedepot has them and they arnt that expensive.

i take that back. 54 bucks and hd i know i seen them cheaper..

This one I got is a CMT, its a German made one, and very nice, I'm sure I could have got one for less somewhere, but not one of these, they retail for 110.00.

The Freud I posted above for $65 is just as good as any CMT blade. THe Craftsman, otoh, is not the same quality. (I have one). I own at least $800-$900 worth of 10" saw blades, and for the money, you really can't beat Freud. If you want really good blades, go with Forrest, but bring your wallet. They are worth it, though.

Yeah, the Freud are great blades too, and thats what I paid for this one, I would have got the Freud, but happened on this one from a local merchant, and someone I know. With tax and shipping( from 5 miles up the road) it was almost 90.00, but after using it, well worth it.

Javadog,

Supply and demand!!!!!

Javadog,

Supply and demand!!!!!

Same cheesy excuse they use for gas prices!! :rolleyes:

Forrest carbide blades...have the Woodworker II....used it for 2 projects....large alcove table and a chest of drawers.....decided to clean the blade with oven cleaner....geesch now the body is stained...almost like rust....it cuts worse then ever...splinters oak plywood like mad....didn't do that before....so, I'm not impressed...I suspect the steel rim was a bit low on chromium....Freuds are okay....so, any other blade suggestions for wood?

I just bought a $65 blade myself (after all that complaining too!).

Craftsman 60 tooth triple-chip carbide. Said it works for Aluminum and Laminate. Hopefully it will work out well.

Well Java, youll be glad,it really helps cut CLEAN. I am stuck at 24 inches. The longest rails I can come up with are all less than 24 inches. I really want to use linear bearings, but I think I might end up having to use a ball slide or pillow block. I have a set of little 3/8 inch pillow blocks and rail 36 inches long. I really wish I could snag a THK type set of linear bearings but they are just too hard to get. And when I do find a set they are very expensive. I cant make up my mind which way to go, I might end up buying a set of new ones from HiWin. Any one have sources for THK style /compatable rails? The trucks are no problem, its the long rails that are impossible to find.

Just how long is long.

Just three feet. I know thier on ebay sometimes, but they sell for so much money. I geusse I might just have to spend a couple hundred.

A couple of hundred is about right for 3 feet of rail and bearing, but I have seen them go for less than $100. I recently paid $425 for a pair of THK HSR 25's 52" long and 4 trucks. If possible look for a single 6' rail and trucks and cut it in half. Sometimes single long rails go cheap because most everybody wants rails in pairs. Ebay seems to be the best source of rails and bearings so far.

Yes that seems to be fair, 200.00. I just want the lucky $75.00 score, it just isnt gonna happen overnight. I geusse I either have to wait or spend some money, or go with the Thomson style round rails. I sure have scored a gang of stuff under 24 inches though. Im set as far as Y and Z axis go. One other thing I'm considering, depending on the price I get, is a pair of 36 inch Bishop Wisecarver rails. I got the trucks with 9 inch rails, Lord they are beutifull things, retail at 800.00 each, I paid 90.00 each. Im waiting for a quote on 36 inch rails. If I can get them for less than 100.00 each I'm in business.

I saw that same Bishop-Wisecarver slide assembly on Ebay and was seriously debating on getting it. The only thing I didn't like about it was that the carraige was only 4 3/4" wide and its length. The deciding factor was winning the 52" long THK rails for the y axis. The jury is still out on the z axis. I have 3/4" rods and bearings laying around collecting dust or do I spend more money on THK rails.

This one I got is a CMT, its a German made one, and very nice, I'm sure I could have got one for less somewhere, but not one of these, they retail for 110.00.


Well, not quite, CMT is an Italian company and so is the blade.

Freud is made in Italy as well, but actually the company is owned by CASALS , a Spanish company (many oem product are made by casals for other brands).


M.

I haven't cut any yet but I think for my plasma/router I want 3" x 3" for my base of about 48" x 48". Unless your band saw blade tracts perfectly it won't be square. Aluminum can be tricky at times. Years ago I was at a guys house and he was cutting aluminum extrusions for picture frames on a regular miter saw except he installed the blade backwards. He said it worked well. I haven't had the need yet to try this trick. :cool:

i have heard others who have done this with both skill saws and chop saws.

What is the best way to join this stuff - machine the ends flat and use the various special purpose joints available, or simply bolt it together using the T-slots and custom milled brackets on the outside of the frame?

Hi All



Am a Quoting and Design engineer for a large distributor for 80/20 it is great stuff to say the least. 80/20 still does kitting and it is the way to go it saves a load on shipping and for less than $2 a cut for a square cut you can’t beat it but if you insist on cutting it your self buy a Fraud TK076 blade and a miter saw that is the same blade 80/20 uses miter saws do run about 1000 rpm to fast so don’t push the cut use some type of lube but the most important thing is support the extrusion as you cut it and you will be ok. We also offer design assistance you can call us and talk about your needs and we design your frame for free. You would be surprised on the number of calls I get on CNC equptment each week there is a whole subculture in the CNC world

Rob

I just yesterday cut 1.5 by 1.5 80/20 with a miter box and nonphorous blade from menards and it went very well. Better than I expected. Bolted the frame together with some home made gussets and was perfectly square when I set my framing square to it.
80/20 is the way to go!