Has anyone out there got a "torchmate" system that they are using, or know of someone with one? How are they? Are they worth risking running a business with them? Was it easy to use? Reliable? etc Please let me know......

Thank you.

Peter

I also thinking in buying one from torchmate, or just building a clone,...I already located almost all the components from internet sources :banana:
It will be nice to have some opinions before deciding going this way
Regards...
Hector

They use flashcut for their drive. I've read good things about them. I want to build one, but I will probably use Mach2 with a breakout board, and THC from Bob C. I'll use geckos or rutex for the drives. I'm looking at One CNC for the cad. My cousin retro fits industrial cutting tables around Portland and strongly recomends a servo drive over a stepper system. This is because of the speed you can get off of a servo and maintain position at speed. We have to remember that plasma cutting goes faster than routing.

I looked at the TM before buying a ShopBot plasma CNC. The TM was Aluminum framed and flimsy in my opinion. I know that it would not be able to stand up to the abuse of throwing a shet of 3/8" steel on it like my steel framed SB. Aluminum pits...badly!

Seems like a good outfit, the owner is nice, but it just wasn't beefy enough for production work IMHO.

-Brady

I looked at the TM before buying a ShopBot plasma CNC. The TM was Aluminum framed and flimsy in my opinion. I know that it would not be able to stand up to the abuse of throwing a shet of 3/8" steel on it like my steel framed SB. Aluminum pits...badly!

Seems like a good outfit, the owner is nice, but it just wasn't beefy enough for production work IMHO.

-Brady

:rolleyes: I plan on throwing to the table 6x20ft 1/2" and 3/4" steel sheets...I think either one the TM or the SB will break apart if I dont go easy (chair)

They use flashcut for their drive. I've read good things about them. I want to build one, but I will probably use Mach2 with a breakout board, and THC from Bob C. I'll use geckos or rutex for the drives. I'm looking at One CNC for the cad. My cousin retro fits industrial cutting tables around Portland and strongly recomends a servo drive over a stepper system. This is because of the speed you can get off of a servo and maintain position at speed. We have to remember that plasma cutting goes faster than routing.

We have to talk :) I just planning same stuff as you...do you have a msn messenger account we can chat?
Regards..
Hector

A couple of problems that I noticed with these machines.

1. they drive with a rack and pinion on one side of "X" axis.

2. the linear slides on X axis looks kind of cheap

3. looks hard to load because all four corners come up above the table to support the rail

just a few observations

Allen

I'd be wary of any machine that uses extruded AL on a plasma cutter. I don't like the idea of ANY cnc machine that you can bump into and mistakenly move the table...The only way my machine moves is if you jack it up in several locations and have wheels and a football team to help. My frame can probably support a truck on it...the TM doesn't seem robust enough....and they use teeny steppers on it.

-Brady

Braid,

To support the weight using steel and making it heavy duty is a good idea. But on the moving axis on a machine that has no side pressure (like a milling machine would have) I would think using aluminum is the way to go.

Allen

A couple of problems that I noticed with these machines.

1. they drive with a rack and pinion on one side of "X" axis.

2. the linear slides on X axis looks kind of cheap

3. looks hard to load because all four corners come up above the table to support the rail

just a few observations

Allen

Hi Allen,
1.- driving a axis with a rack an pinion is a problem? Could you explain, because I plan to drive my machine this way.... :rolleyes:
2.- the linear slides, in the torch mate machine are cam followers they dont nead manteinance and are rated at very high loads...the idea of this guys at torchmate are to provide a cheap solution that can compete with expensive linear slides, I know there are better ways to drive a axis put in a expensive way...think in this I'm trying to build a 20ft x axis table...that will mean thousands of dollars for a dual vee rollers and rails, or THK slides instead of a couple of hundred dlls...
3.- could you explain on this...looks hard to load, do you mean the material to cut? I'm planing on using a electric 3 ton hoist on a crane.
My table will be quite sturdy, very heavy structural steel....with a very light gantry...do you see any problems if I do this setup this way?
Regards...
Hector

Hello Hector,

First of all I'm not trying to be critical of another persons work. I'm sure their machine works fine.

I do understand that cam followers, stepper motors and using a rack and pinion are cheaper but with anything in this world you get what you pay for. Driving from one side with a rack and pinion, seems to me, to not be the best solution. Even with a rack and pinion one could drive it in the center to prevent the torque of the motor from twisting the rail along "x" axis.

looks hard to load the material that's going to be cut. Since the material to be cut sets below the top of the legs (by quite a bit, looks like 1-2 ft) you have to load it between the legs. If a person drives it in the center below the table you simply move the machine to one end, which exposes the whole table, and load the material.

One last note. I am making a plasma/router the will cut 4X4. The ballscrews for it will be $100 for X and Y axis. That's with two ball nuts for each. That seem pretty reasonable to me. The company, roton is listed below.

http://www.roton.com/web/index.jsp

a 5/8 dia. ball screw (rolled) cost 8.95 per foot and the ball nuts are $20 each

Again.....I'm not trying to be critical and I'm sure that all this stuff works fine. I wanted my machine to last a long time and cut very accuratly. Maybe one could accomplish that with the other items. I've never used them so I'm not sure of it.

Allen James

Allen,
Generally speaking, rack and pinions work very well on a plasma machine. My machine uses 2 racks and 2 motors on each X rail. One thing you might want to check is top speed of your machine in the X&Y directions. Depending on your torch amperage and nozzles, you may not be able to move that ballscrew fast enough to cut thinner materials. Your only saving grace at that point would be if your torch could use Hypertherm FineCut consumables, which don't require as much speed in thin materials.

-Brady

The cam foller setup should work fine. The TM table is driven from both sides. There is a shaft running across the gantry. If you have an overhead hoist the table configuration won't be a problem. How would one even support a ballscrew over 20'? It would be hard to load material with a center rack. The rack would need to be mounted above the table if you want to use a water table.

well, maybe I am wrong then. sorry for the confusion

Allen,
Generally speaking, rack and pinions work very well on a plasma machine. My machine uses 2 racks and 2 motors on each X rail. One thing you might want to check is top speed of your machine in the X&Y directions. Depending on your torch amperage and nozzles, you may not be able to move that ballscrew fast enough to cut thinner materials. Your only saving grace at that point would be if your torch could use Hypertherm FineCut consumables, which don't require as much speed in thin materials.

-Brady

Hi,
I'm planning to get a real expensive plasma...Does someone knows if its really good for that kind of money? is a 4070 High Definition Plasma from Hypertherm...I'm trying to save as much I can building the table because the high price tag of the plasma...I'm making this investment for a contract to cut by the specification. Well all spoken..here's the question the fastest feed rate for the plasma is 380IPM and the slower 30IPM, almost all the time I'll be cutting at 90IPM, so the question is regarding speeds...Do I need to make sure the machine will be capable of traveling at 380IPM or with 100IPM i will do it? And If I have to travel at 380IPM will steppers do the job, or should I go directly to look at servos?
Regards...
Hector

The cam foller setup should work fine. The TM table is driven from both sides. There is a shaft running across the gantry. If you have an overhead hoist the table configuration won't be a problem. How would one even support a ballscrew over 20'? It would be hard to load material with a center rack. The rack would need to be mounted above the table if you want to use a water table.

yep I have a overhead crane... :cheers: nice thing to have around in the shop...

yep I have a overhead crane... :cheers: nice thing to have around in the shop...And a Laser to cut the clone parts of the TM :banana:

You should be fine with steppers. Look for something in the 400-600Oz range and gear it accordingly. I don't recommend servos on a plasma machine because there is a higher tendency for interference. Be sure to use foil/shielded control cables to minimize any interference with the steppers.

Sounds to me like you will be cutting in the 26ga to 3/8" thick range of materials if I read your speeds right. You shouldn't lose any steps if you get your ramping dialed in, and keep the gantry light. Since there is no real cutting force on the tool, I doubt you will lose steps...no advantage to going to servos.

-Brady

You should be fine with steppers. Look for something in the 400-600Oz range and gear it accordingly. I don't recommend servos on a plasma machine because there is a higher tendency for interference. Be sure to use foil/shielded control cables to minimize any interference with the steppers.

Sounds to me like you will be cutting in the 26ga to 3/8" thick range of materials if I read your speeds right. You shouldn't lose any steps if you get your ramping dialed in, and keep the gantry light. Since there is no real cutting force on the tool, I doubt you will lose steps...no advantage to going to servos.

-Brady

Brady,
Do you know where I can get some more detail on that interference you mention with servos, has this happend to you? is it a well recongnized problem with servos in a plasma table?
do you reccomend any foil/shielded cable in particular, and where I can get this?
I'll be cutting primarly 50% of the time 1/2", 30% 3/4", and 20% 1"
The thing I like most of the TM design is the lightness and that everything is easy to get, just the steel plates, but those are not a problem for me I have a 2000w laser i can use to cut them.
So will it be possible to get some 300oz range steppers belt reduction them to get more torque? well my doubt here is, will steppers in this torque range are capable of providing the apropiate RPM to make a timming belt reduction and increase the torque, will the RPM after the reduction wil be capable of giving me the IPM cutting speed I need?, and what reduction ratio is the most common in this application?
Regards...
Hector

Hector,
I don't have sites for the servo/interference issue. There really is no need to run servos on a plasma CNC because you are well within the torque range of NEMA 34 steppers and don't have any loads applied to them like a CNC router would (no lost steps). You can run them directly on a Bishop-Wisecarver gear track with a 25 tooth gear. No reduction belt-drive necessary.

I bought my machine turn-key and hanven't had the need to buy shielded cable yet. I'm sure a search on Thomas Register would give you a whole list of suppliers for shielded motion cable etc.

-Brady

Hector,
I don't have sites for the servo/interference issue. There really is no need to run servos on a plasma CNC because you are well within the torque range of NEMA 34 steppers and don't have any loads applied to them like a CNC router would (no lost steps). You can run them directly on a Bishop-Wisecarver gear track with a 25 tooth gear. No reduction belt-drive necessary.

I bought my machine turn-key and hanven't had the need to buy shielded cable yet. I'm sure a search on Thomas Register would give you a whole list of suppliers for shielded motion cable etc.

-Brady

Brady,
By any chance do you have a link where I can get the Bishop-Wisecarver gear trackand gear you are talking about, it seems in the Bishop-Wisecarver Site I can find it...you are meaning a rack and pinion from this brand?
The only brand I have found for Rack and Pinion is Boston Gear, do you know of other sources?
I seen a 20pitch 25 teeth 14-1/2 Presure Angle Spur Gear (mcmaster 6867K33) and rack (mcmaster 6295K113), are this onse the one you suggest? Are this ones the originally used in the TM?
Regards...
Hector

http://www.bwc.com/html/dualvee.html

Sniff around a little and you will find that some people are not even using the BWC rails, which can be expensive. They just take 1/8" angle and bevel the edges a little with a grinder. In some cases, they don't grind them either. I have seen a plasma machine using this system without a ground rail and it performed very well making use of the dual vee bearings. Why anyone would build a machine over 4' in any direction with a ballscrew is beyond me.

Yes, you are correct on the Boston gear track. I can't seem to find my BG catalog in this office!

-Brady

http://www.bwc.com/html/dualvee.html

Sniff around a little and you will find that some people are not even using the BWC rails, which can be expensive. They just take 1/8" angle and bevel the edges a little with a grinder. In some cases, they don't grind them either. I have seen a plasma machine using this system without a ground rail and it performed very well making use of the dual vee bearings. Why anyone would build a machine over 4' in any direction with a ballscrew is beyond me.

Yes, you are correct on the Boston gear track. I can't seem to find my BG catalog in this office!

-Brady

I've seen the Dual Vee Bearings and seen that they are used in high quality tables, well the bearings seem not so expensive, but dont talk about the tracks (chair) If I go this way I need 20ft x 2 for the x and 6ft x 2 for the y so this translate in thousands of dollars!!! that why I love the idea of the cam followers over a rectified steel flat, not a proble to get a 20ft 1/4 or 1/2 x20Ft rectified steel flat. I noticed that the shopbot brand use the dual vee bearings over a common steel channel, I imagine how this solution really works vs the cam followers solution?
Regards....
Hector

Well...It works well enough to Jog a ShopBot with the Vexta AlphaStep motors at 40 inches a second...and .005" resolution...You tell me. :)

To see an Alpha ShopBot in action is a real treat!

-Brady

Well...It works well enough to Jog a ShopBot with the Vexta AlphaStep motors at 40 inches a second...and .005" resolution...You tell me. :)

To see an Alpha ShopBot in action is a real treat!

-Brady

guess it was a dump question :rolleyes:
Tell me more about those Alpha Step...and the shopbot, I know that is a hard question to answer objectively but.... :) between the shopbot design and the torchmate design, which one will be the way to go....?
For my taste, I have looked at this two design as a cheap, reliable, real life solution for a workhorse table

I am a bit biased because I own a ShopBot plasma CNC. Before I bought the SB, I looked at the Torchmate. It had tiny motors, FlashCut electronics, 80/20-type AL extrusions and the THC was a $2,000 option (prices may or may not be that now) For a 4X8 plasma machine it was going to cost me $21,000+ will all options including the 4th axis, including a Hypertherm 600. The table looked weak, where the grid attaches to the AL extrusions in particular (another cost option...the grid & hardware to mount grid to table) and I thought that there was no way that I would be able to put thick steel on the table without thinking the weight might be an issue.

The ShopBot on the other hand is solid. You can throw a full sheet of 1/2" (or preferrably use the crane)...on the table without worrying about hurting it. It comes with EVERYTHING ready to go including the grid, Torch Height Control, the electronics in the Hypertherm for torch feedback already factory installed...all cables...etc, etc. I think some people get the impression that ShopBots aren't reall CNC machines because of the price...It's kind of funny because I can do things on my machines that others can't. Some of my customers own $100k+ CNC routers and Plasma cutters.

I paid just under $27k for a 5X8' ShopBot plasma CNC with a Hypertherm 1250 G3 WITH MT-80 torch....AND ALL options...PLUS a 5X8' Shopbot CNC router table with a 5HP 3-phase router/spindle with VFD controller, a 3D probe, 4th axis, limit switches, 2 powder coated tables, 1 for each machine, included operating software AND CAD/CAM software...plus a few other things I can't remember at the moment.

Not to take away from Torchmate. It just didn't suit my needs. If you are a tinkerer, small shop (non-production) and have the need or desire for a CNC plasma machine on a budget, go for it. If you want to make a living...buy something else....like a ShopBot.

-Brady

I am a bit biased because I own a ShopBot plasma CNC. Before I bought the SB, I looked at the Torchmate. It had tiny motors, FlashCut electronics, 80/20-type AL extrusions and the THC was a $2,000 option (prices may or may not be that now) For a 4X8 plasma machine it was going to cost me $21,000+ will all options including the 4th axis, including a Hypertherm 600. The table looked weak, where the grid attaches to the AL extrusions in particular (another cost option...the grid & hardware to mount grid to table) and I thought that there was no way that I would be able to put thick steel on the table without thinking the weight might be an issue.

The ShopBot on the other hand is solid. You can throw a full sheet of 1/2" (or preferrably use the crane)...on the table without worrying about hurting it. It comes with EVERYTHING ready to go including the grid, Torch Height Control, the electronics in the Hypertherm for torch feedback already factory installed...all cables...etc, etc. I think some people get the impression that ShopBots aren't reall CNC machines because of the price...It's kind of funny because I can do things on my machines that others can't. Some of my customers own $100k+ CNC routers and Plasma cutters.

I paid just under $27k for a 5X8' ShopBot plasma CNC with a Hypertherm 1250 G3 WITH MT-80 torch....AND ALL options...PLUS a 5X8' Shopbot CNC router table with a 5HP 3-phase router/spindle with VFD controller, a 3D probe, 4th axis, limit switches, 2 powder coated tables, 1 for each machine, included operating software AND CAD/CAM software...plus a few other things I can't remember at the moment.

Not to take away from Torchmate. It just didn't suit my needs. If you are a tinkerer, small shop (non-production) and have the need or desire for a CNC plasma machine on a budget, go for it. If you want to make a living...buy something else....like a ShopBot.

-Brady

So you are a shopbot fan ? :p
I think that shopbot are the best deal for the buck...but I'm trying to get even a better deal.
I will be cutting just 2D, and plasma cutting, so I don't need a metal gantry thet supports high loads (I'm not using a router).
The conclusions I have made with all the feed back...is this
1. A 80/20 gantry will do for plasma cutting
2. use rack and pinion in the x and y...be sure to use a shaft(in the x) with one rack at each side of the x
3. build a heavy duty steel table that supports real heavy steel plates 6ftx20ft 1" steel
3. Design all provisions possible to protect the gantry from accidents, like hiting it while loading metal plates
4. Use DualVee rolling in steel angle (not the tracks..expensive!!!) work fine (shopbot example) or either I can use the cam followers.
5. There's not a justification to buy servos and its electronics that will rise the price tag...steppers will do, because there are not high loads, it almost impossible they will loose steps.
What do you think guys....are this conclusions correct, or there is someone that can give more usefull feedback...
Kindest Regards...
Hector

IF ANYONE IS GOING WITH THE TORCHMATE MACHINES, BE READY TO "BEEF UP" YOUR TABLE & FRAMEWORK OR BETTER IDEA DESIGN YOUR OWN!!!

GJM, what unit did you purchase and what are you cutting?

IF ANYONE IS GOING WITH THE TORCHMATE MACHINES, BE READY TO "BEEF UP" YOUR TABLE & FRAMEWORK OR BETTER IDEA DESIGN YOUR OWN!!!

GJM, what unit did you purchase and what are you cutting?

I'm curious as well, why you believe you need to "beef" up your frame?

I don't want to step on anyones toes. I don't own a TM table. I am not affiliated with TM in any way. This is just my opinion. It seems to me if 5' wide is enough Torchmate offers a fine looking gantry along with all their hardware/software items + a build your own table kit that has pre drilled/cut brackets for cam follower bearings. Build your own table, how ever heavy you wish it to be. I'm sure you can find a way to lower the side rails if you wish or at least one of them creating a "drop side table".

It just seems to me the Torchmate people offer more options than about anyone in the entry tables price range. & don't seem to twist anyones arm to buy their "in house manufactured table"

As to the small motors. If they are enough to move it over the 10' length of their offered table I'm quite sure the steppers will not know or care to move it 20'

yeah i have serious problems with mine and right when the warranty expired, check out my thread for more explanation.

I built a TM table and ordered the gantry. The assembly was actually fun.
I think the software takes alot to get used to. There are a lot of functions and it can get kind of confusing. I have gotten too comfortable with autocad and can't seem to bring myself to adapt to their cad software. I am going to ask Santa Claus to ask TM to combine their software with Autodesk. The TM cuts as good as your Plasma machine. Its fun if you can remember all the functions and steps of the software. Good Luck and have patience. I'm still trying!

yeah i have serious problems with mine and right when the warranty expired, check out my thread for more explanation.

Which thread? Hi Jamie. :D

Which thread? Hi Jamie. :D

Who's it going Mike? Good to hear from you. Don't remember which thread. I think it was called Problems with torchmate. IT should be in the torchmate section. Still having problems. The warranty expires and now I need a new signal generator that would run me $1500. I have torchmate numerous times to email me instructions as to how to check it. But no, they always want to go over it on the phone. Well it's hard to do when the shop is running, I shut down just to sit on the phone with them. If I had some instructions to check it out I could come down on a saturday or after work when it is nice and quiet and check everything out.
Hope all is well with you. I got married two weeks ago to that pretty little lady you met.

Sorry to hear you are having problems with your rig. All is well with me, thank you. I will email you my friend. :rainfro:

Who's it going Mike? Good to hear from you. Don't remember which thread. I think it was called Problems with torchmate. IT should be in the torchmate section. Still having problems. The warranty expires and now I need a new signal generator that would run me $1500. I have torchmate numerous times to email me instructions as to how to check it. But no, they always want to go over it on the phone. Well it's hard to do when the shop is running, I shut down just to sit on the phone with them. If I had some instructions to check it out I could come down on a saturday or after work when it is nice and quiet and check everything out.
Hope all is well with you. I got married two weeks ago to that pretty little lady you met.

Is it the same problem that you posted about in your thread? The last thing I posted in the thread was giving you some instructions on testing why the torch was coming down and firing during rapid travel cuts. I don't know whatever came of it after that point.

What we'd like to see done next is to run the program with the Start Input wires disconnected from the plasma interface side, and hook a multimeter up to those two points. Run the program as you normally would, and set the multimeter to check for continuity between those two points. At the beginning of every cut, it should show a closed loop, and at the end of every cut, the loop should open back up. It should rapid travel to the next cut and repeat.

If it is showing a closed loop between cuts, most likely the system is telling the torch to fire for one various reason or another, the M-Code executions come to mind, where there is a setting that says Execute at Start/End of Motion. It has the ability to activate an m-code at the beginning and end of every motion regardless of cutting or rapid travel.

Hi Mike@Tourchmate,

I think jprobst was talking to me up there. He is a old friend. :D

Best

yeah i have serious problems with mine and right when the warranty expired, check out my thread for more explanation.
I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE MACHINE ITSELF IS BAD, BUT THE DESIGN OF THE TABLE IS OKAY FOR LIGHTWEIGHT WORK BUT FOR HEAVY STUFF, NOT GOOD. ALSO THE SIGNAL GENERATOR GAVE US SOME HECK TOO, BUT FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT ON MY OWN BECAUSE I WOULD GET DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS FOR THE PROBLEM AND THE SOFTWARE IS JUST NOT A "GOOD ONE" HAS TOO MANY BUGS & DESIGN PROBLEMS AND THE INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR THE CAD SOFTWARE IS JUST PLAIN CONFUSING!!! I HAVE PICTURES OF THE TABLE THAT I DESIGNED AND BELIEVE ME IT WILL OUTLAST THE MACHINERY ITSELF!!!