New Machine Build Complete beginner starting out building a cnc rig. [Archive] - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!

Ballistixx

10-18-2008, 04:16 AM

TOTALLYRC

10-18-2008, 08:29 AM

This is my first post here. It is a terrific site filled with tons of info!
I see myself spending a quite a bit of time here!

I have researched a bit on my own and had the help of a fellow member of another hobby site I belong to. I have a pretty good idea of what I want and need, but I am sure some of you folks have been there done that and can possibly save me some pain, mistakes and heartache.

I am trying to build up a small cnc mini mill. Here is what I bought so far...

HF 44991 mill
Xylotex 3 axis system kit
An Economy XYZ dro kit with readout w/ 2-12" horizontal dro, 1-8" vertical
snip

I have autocad,featurecam, and am planning on using Mach 3

What do guy's think of this setup?

I am going to mount my Xylotex electronics in a metal box (the kind similar to a big index or recipe box) with two fans mounted on each side of the box. One blowing in, the other blowing out.

I am going to mount my DRO's and display using the instructional pdf from little machine shop here...
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2016

The thing I am not too sure of yet is mounting the steppers. I would like to keep the hand wheels on the machine still.

I was thinking of possibly buying three of these lead screws...
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1179&category=

Using simple couplers and brackets like this...snip

Please advise me if there is better easier ways. Any pitfalls to watch out for.
Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Jason

Hi Jason and good luck on your new adventure. Here is my opinion for what it is worth. Not flaming anyone or anything but here goes.

Forget about the handwheels. Once you can do cnc, you will just use MDI commands to do those quick and dirty jobs.
Return the dro kit, you won't need it when you have gone cnc, and the Xylotex kit. Put the money into a better set of controls and don't look back.
Always use a breakout board. www.candcnc.com is a great place to get them from and there are a lot of others. Or you could use the G540 which incorporates the breakoutboard and a whole bunch of other great stuff for $299
http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469

As a xylotex owner, I can tell you they suffer from mid band resonance and can limit you on the rapids and even max machining speeds if doing aluminum with a small cutter.

I know nothing about that particular machine so I can't give you an opinion about it.

I use and endorse Mach3.

Be very careful when using fans to bring outside air into an electronics enclosure, they can draw in metal chips or dust. A quick and easy solution is to use filters or you can even cut up a furnace filter from one of the home centers. Not the pleated paper kind, but the floss kind.
An metal enclosure is a great idea but give yourself plenty of room to work. I did my first enclosure and thought I was all set, but then I wanted to add some relay and it was either 2 boxes or a complete reinstall into a bigger box.

Look around the zone for Hoss. he has done some wonderful things with the small mills and is a great resource for you to use.

Remember, these are just my honest opinons of what I have used or at least companies that I have used and have heard great things about these particular items.

Mike.

cyclestart

10-18-2008, 09:01 AM

Honestly I don't like where this build is heading. Take what follows with a grain of salt remembering what they say about opinions and a**holes. ;)
btw: the 44991 is commonly called the X2

On the electronics end, the DRO isn't necessary. Mach3 is all the DRO you need imo unless you really want to hand crank the machine. The extra money could have been spent on better drives. My cnc X2 has no cranks/handles and I don't miss them one bit. The steppers are double ended, so adding cranks is possible if desired.

I own a Xylotex and agree it's decent for the money. However, if the Gecko G540 had been available at the time it would have been a no-brainer. The G540 is more capable and has more circuit protection. Oh well, the money is already spent.

Your idea for the X axis sounds workable. The lead screw linked from LMS looks wrong??? The screw should be machined for the hand wheel on the right end and slotted at the left end. My X2 came powerfeed ready and I can shoot a picture of the screw if you need. This would allow the motor to be mounted on the left side and retain the crank on the right side. And why would you order 3 of these screws?

Look for posts by chukkie or blades for some Y axis ideas. Example;
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51449

edit/ LOL, I slowly wrote my post while making coffee, etc, so didn't see Mike's post until now. I agree with everything he wrote and repeated much of it :)

alexccmeister

10-18-2008, 10:29 AM

Hi Jason,

Nothing much you can do if you have already bought the list above unless you can return some of them as suggested. When I started out I became a member here just to learn things. After getting much info, then I took the plunge and started buying the things I need like the X2 and such.

I had a look at the Xylotex for a long time and almost took the plunge on it before realising that should one circuit board blow, you have to change the whole thing. I decided to get a separate driver for that reason. Although a bit more expensive but it has a much better expansion capability. I decided on the Keling KL5056 but Gecko no doubt is a fine product except its abit beyond my price range.

You will want to arm yourself with as much info as you can prior to getting the things you need as this will save you time and money at the end. The DRO is just a classic case of getting something you won't need should you cnc your X2 mill.

Just a list of things you should consider when you do get the part for cnc conversion.

1. Separate stepper drivers.
2. Nema 23 stepper motor 295lb.in for x and Y and 495 lb.in for Z axis.
3. Power supply. 48volts 7A or higher. Voltage gives you speed and Amps gives your torgue. Between 24V PSU and 48V PSU, its alot of difference. PSU voltage rating should be less than the max voltage rating on the driver.
4. Ballscrew setup (if you have the cash as this cost the same or more than an X2) unless you do it yourself.

Anyway, this is what I had learned and done. Others can chime in should my list be off abit. Or add to it for the benefit of Jason.

Alex

Fixittt

10-18-2008, 10:39 AM

and yet again, I am going to have to agree on these points. I have a 4 axis xylotex kit runing my maxnc. its stable now, but has taken me 2 years to fumble my way thru the resonance issues. Its also under powered. But still a great kit for the smaller hobby mills IMHO.
I also have the gecko G540 on another mill and its stupid fast and quiet. Where I have to have rattle type dampeners on the maxnc/xylotex system. Louder and slower. not that I could push the maxnc much faster anyways.
As for your motor mounts. Seems like a hassle to me. Search the site and see what simple designs people are using. I like the mounts that are 2 aluminum blocks that are long enough to reach 2 of the mounting holes on the steppers. Simple solid and effective.
As for the electronics in the box. Good idea, but put a foam type of air filter over the intake hole. And mount the box so that the intake is on the underside of the box. Exhaust fan on the side. This will keep the dreaded chips out, and help with dust as well. I used an old house circuit breaker box for my electronics. And they are mounted under the desk so there is no way chips can get in them. (metal dust on the other hand could possible) If I was cutting metal. I cut wax so its not that big of a deal to me.
Goodluck and keep the pictures coming of the build.

Ballistixx

10-18-2008, 11:40 AM

I will need to machine for a while by hand until I get the cnc kit up and running. I will need to use the mill manually at first for a while, hence the dro kit. I will need time to learn to use the software as well.

Unfortunately I registered to this forum some time ago, but was only able to post for the first time when I made the this post you guy's replied to. I wanted to get advice here before I bought things but didn't want to wait forever.

I have not even received any of the items yet, so I can return things.

The metal electronics enclosure will be in a separate wooden cabinet underneath the mill, so I don't think chips will be a problem, but this is speculation and nothing more. Filters sound like a great idea to me.

I also don't have endless amounts of cash to spend on the best gear, if I did I would not of even looked at the X2 mill in the first place.

I live on Maui so all this stuff has to be shipped in. I can't even buy end mills locally!

So basically the overall opinion is that I return the dro kit and the xylotex kit. Get the Gecko board for 299.00. What about power supply and motors. Any place to start looking for these? Or better yet particular links to recommended models please.

I sincerely thank you guy's for all your opinions and advice. My feelings aren't hurt one bit I want to do this right the first time.

Thanks,
Jason

mrcodewiz

10-18-2008, 11:53 AM

I CNCd my X2 based off of Hoss' plans and have been 100% happy with it so far.

I started out using the X2 manually and I will say that if you plan on doing much manual machining then go ahead and mount up the DRO. I only had my DRO hooked up to the X and Y originally which was plenty. I used a dial indicator for the Z. If you are only going to use the mill manually in order to make the CNC kit then I wouldn't bother with the DRO. I agree with the others on handles too - no need once you get the CNC installed. Also, I went with Roton ballscrews to cut down on cost. I had them load the nuts with oversized balls and it has worked out well. I think I have a couple thousandths of backlash in the X and Y but for what I do, I don't notice it.

As far as electronics, I bought everything from KELINGINC.NET (his kit for the X2 with the 425 oz steppers) and they have worked out great. I mounted it all in a circuit breaker box from Lowe's. It looks kind of like this one but there was no swinging door. I think it was less than $20.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=12561-1318-ELC125ML8S&lpage=none

I mounted the fan that came with the keling kit to blow are out of the box. There is no feed for incoming air - I figured it would get enough from the cracks/slots in the box.

For software I use Mach3 and Dolphin CAD/CAM both of which I also recommend.

HTH
Kevin

alexccmeister

10-18-2008, 12:29 PM

Jason,

Since you are going to do manual milling first, keep the DRO. They will definitely help. As you said, cash is a factor in getting the mill cnc'ed, its even more important for you to search and read more on this forum. I managed to cnc my mill the first time with my stock leadscrew with very cheap and available parts. Can you get brass rods in Maui? If you can, do as I did here. Brass rod is easy to cut, drill and thread. I do have a lathe to drill centrally but then you can also do that with a mill.

Here is a link (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39256&page=2)to my first cnc. Nothing near to cncfusion kit quality wise but very very cheap. And so has alot of people here like Hoss.

You can get cable connects here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290258468921).

PSU here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360085037624).

Motors you can get from Keling.net. I got from them. Their service is ace.

For control box casing. Just use a pc casing. That's what I did (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35883). Should be readily available in Maui.

Personally I would like to have the hand wheels even after cnc'ing my mill. For positioning purpose, they will help alot. My experience is that everytime I need to position the mill over the part, I had to start the pc, controller and mach. Not an issue with jogging in mach3 but just alot of hassle sometimes. I would rather do my positioning while waiting for the pc and mach3 to start up.

Alex

Ballistixx

10-18-2008, 01:08 PM

TOTALLYRC

10-18-2008, 02:53 PM

Yes I am sure I can get brass rod here. I don't have a lathe but am looking at one.

I just ordered the Xylotex kit yesterday, I emailed him and asked if he didn't ship to cancel my order. If he did I have a 14 day return period.

I will keep the dro while I use the mill manually. On a different hobby forum I am a member of I could easily sell it after I get the cnc kit together.

So no for the cnc set up I am shooting for...

The gecko Drive G540
Nema 23 stepper motor 295lb.in for x and Y and 495 lb.in for Z axis
A 48 volt power supply w/ at least 7 amps

I was thinking of the circuit breaker box for the enclosure. I use one of these filled with duct seal for a pellet trap for my PCP air rifles.

I will decide on how to mount the stepper after I research more and get the kit together.

I still also need to get a bunch of tooling! I have a Starret comb square, 6" Digital calipers, some diff sized end mills, a 52 piece clamping kit, a collet holder and set. I still need a good drill bit set and a tap set,v blocks, machinist vice,mics, etc... etc...

Is this a more sound plan then?

Jason

Yes, your plan is sounding better. If you are going with Kelingcnc for some of the stuff, he has a kit with motors that are as close to the limit for the G540 and a power supply and such. You can always email him and tell him that you need the bigger motor for the z axis. He will work with you I 'm sure.
Circuit box enclosure works or any metal box that is strudy and is big enough.
I get them out of the dumpster at work.

The amount of money you will spend on tooling and stuff is at least as much as you will spend on the mill.

Remember, that if you leave the handles on the machine, they are a hazard when running cnc. The gecko setup will spin those handles so fast it can cause a real injury if you get caught up in one while it is going fast.

Keep on going, you will really enjoy doing the hobby if you have gotten this far already.

When all else fails when setting things up, scream at the walls once in a while, it really helps to calm me down.

Ballistixx

10-18-2008, 03:27 PM

scudzuki

10-18-2008, 04:05 PM

Seems to me that mounting the axis drive motors on posts could result in wind up of the mount, intoducing inaccuracy and possible resonance. Why not combine 2 of the posts into a flat plate (tons of beam strength, no torsional flex) with 1 plate for the top holes and 1 for the bottom, which would have the added benefit of keeping most of the chips away from the coupling and motor bearing. I understand that it's entertaining to watch the coupling turn during an operation but I'm not talking about enclosing it completely.

Joe

TOTALLYRC

10-18-2008, 04:38 PM

I will either figure out a way to easily mount them when I want, and take them off when I don't , or when I get the kit running perhaps I will see no need for them like other's here have said.

I have one more quick question....

The computer I will be running the mill from is a custom new high end gaming rig it does not have a parallel port. I will have to add a pci parallel card to it.

My question is why do they run the control board through this archaic type of connection?

PS- I got my refund for the Xylotex kit already.

Thanks for all the help.

Jason

Hi again Jason, I am glad to help. Nice job on the refund.

It is not an archaic connection, It is a high speed machine tool interface!!!!!!!
The reason is, is that it gets pricey to go any other way. If you don't want the pport, use a smoothstepper. $149 vs pport card $12 dollars. Use a cnc brain $400+. On and on.

If it is a new high end gaming rig, it might be pci express. Verify which one you have before ordering.
I just went to the local computer shop and picked up a used p4 2 ghz dell with winxp pro. $200. Lets me dedicate a computer to the machine.

You might want to email Mach3 to verify if they have an approved list of pport cards or check their forum. I have heard a few instances where certain cards won't work.

Mike

Ballistixx

10-18-2008, 07:45 PM

My mother board has 4 pci express x16 slots, 1 pci express x1, and 2 32bit pci slots.

I have bought a high speed parallel pci card for it already. Here is a link...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=370099114372

I have heard from somewhere that the clock speed of the cpu you use has a direct effect on controlling the motors. Am I mistaken?

Thanks again for all the info!

Jason

TOTALLYRC

10-19-2008, 03:29 AM

It looks good and I am glad to see you are on top of the slots inside your computer.

Yes, the speed of the processor if it is too slow can't generate the clock pulses fast enough. That is why they recommend a 1ghz minumun. Your machine will be more than fast enough. In the mach3 folder, there is a program called driver test. You run that and look at the graph it generates. It will tell you how steady your pulse rate is. you can run it without the card installed.

It is also why they stooped supporting pport on laptop. The bios has several sneeky things that can't be shut down, and they will interupt the pulse generation.

Mike.
I just wish I was smat enough to find this site before I learned the hard way. The zone is still a gol mine of knowledge. As my dad said, There is always somebody smarter than you at something.

Ballistixx

10-19-2008, 01:20 PM

I am runnuing an AMD Phenom Quad Core 9950 Black Edition. The stock clock speed is 2.6ghz, but it can be overclocked. I don't have my rig liquid cooled but I am running an Ultru Chill Tec. It works on the peltier effect with a radiator and a huge fan. It has a digital read out that fits in a drive bay. The chip has been clocked all the way up to 3.7 ghz by a guy in Germany, liquid cooling the system (all four cores of coarse) with stability!

So I will be fine there.

Jason

TOTALLYRC

10-19-2008, 03:33 PM

You won't want to or need to overclock.

bertmiller

10-19-2008, 04:02 PM

no he wants to overclock, thats where this cnc conversion is all about :p
i hope to get a deneb this year and put some water on it myself also with my x3 cnc machine.

i do use these dro scales you got with my homemade cnc program.
and i dont need mach3 and i dont have to worry about lost steps, stalling or backlash at all.

TOTALLYRC

10-19-2008, 04:31 PM

Ballistixx

10-19-2008, 07:41 PM

TOTALLYRC

10-20-2008, 02:40 AM

I am not going to overclock. Four cores running at 2.6 ghz is fast enough.

TotallyRC what kind of rc are you into? Car's-Planes-Heli's?

I used to be into RC myself and had a few nice machines for their time.

Jason

I am currently taking a 1 year leave of absence from all r/c activities to get my workshop in order. I have been into r/c planes since 1988 and cars since 2002. I have tried to fly heli's without much luck, but I still have my Kyosho and will try again this spring. I fly all electric aircraft since 1999-2000 except for the Kyosho heli.
By the way I still have my Boat when I have free time, so I guess I am into all facets of R/C.

Mike

Ballistixx

10-20-2008, 05:10 AM

TOTALLYRC

10-20-2008, 05:44 AM

On a side note I have been doing a bit more research into the cnc kit on Hoss's website.

What do you think about this kit as compared to the gecko?

Link last one on page...
http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23Package.html

CNC 3 Axis Package with 495 oz-in motor and KL-4030 Bipolar
Driver with 36V/8.8A Power Supply :$419

Thanks in advance,
Jason

Hi Jason.
A couple of points in no particular order other than it is the way I think this early.

1. The torque spec is only a holding torque and the higher the holding torque, the slower the motor will turn for a given voltage, as a very general rule.

2. I have purchased from keling in the past and like his service and I am not dissing his stuff in anyway. However if those drives don't have midband compensation, don't get them.

3. Alot of the drivers on the market were "overshadowed" when the G540/251/250 came out. I realize it is more$, but you can't go wrong with Gecko. IMHO.

4. Compare what you get with the G540 vs what everone else gives. 80-90% of the wiring is already done. 0-10v analogue output for VFD/DC motor control. You will just love to be able to control the spindle speed from the computer.

5. Number of drives, as you will do 4 axis eventually. Integrated breakout board. It comes with a Mach3 XML file to get the basic settings right from the start. it features a 2 minute drive swap out with no rewiring required in the unlikely event one should fail.

6. The complete G540 package from Kelingcnc, I believe, has motors that are very close to the max that the G540 can handle. Faster rapids, while most people say it is just a hobby and I don't need to go fast, will soon pay for themselves in short order.

7.I am a happy customer of Gecko, Kelling, Vital systems, CandCnc and several other cnc companies and I recomend products based on if I have used the product or have had good dealings with the company and respect their people and products.

8. I would buy a g540 today if I was going to do a machine that needed it, but right now I don't have anything in the works, YET.

9. CandCnc has a nice GeckoG250/251 based package for something different that the G540.

10. I bought the G251 drives during their 2 week special and I will be putting them to good use this winter. I have started to do some sketches of how I will set up the control box.

11. If you need a bigger motor for the Z based on Hoss's recomendation, fell free to call the supplier of your choice and ask for a package of what you need. If there is enough interest, I wouldn't be supprised if they offer such a package on their website in the future. How cool would it be if you went to a website and it said, This is a perfect match for machine X, and this is better for machine Y, and here is why? Just dreaming a little.

Time for more coffee.

Remember, these are "MY" opinions and recomendations. If anyone has some different recomendations, I would love to hear them and discuss them. After all these forums are for the free exchange of ideas.
:)They ar also a wy fo me to prctice my tping ans spelling.:)

Mike

Ballistixx

10-20-2008, 06:19 AM

I do not see a need for a 4th axis. Could you please enlighten me as to what it would be used for?

Jason

TOTALLYRC

10-20-2008, 06:31 AM

I do not see a need for a 4th axis. Could you please enlighten me as to what it would be used for?

Jason

A fourth axis is used on a mill to make things like toothed pulleys, machining on the perimiter of a ring, cut on 4 faces of a 6 sided part without refixturing the part. :cool: Put inlays on a pool cue Very :cool:

I am sure there are other uses that I don't know about or can't remember at the moment. :confused:

Ballistixx

10-20-2008, 05:10 PM

Hey Guy's,

I am going to buy one of these two kits and be done with it.

Option 1
G540

1 pcs KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 110V/230V
power supply)

3pcs KL23H2100-30-4BM 495 oz-in 1/4" dual shaft for $589.00

Option 2
G540

1 pcs KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 110V/230V
power supply)

2 pcs 8A:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 382 oz-in, 3/8” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4B (Dual Shaft)

1 pc. 8:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 495 oz-in, 1/4” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4BM (Dual Shaft) for $549.00

The difference is only $40. What do you fellas think?

Thanks for all the advice and help!

Jason

Stepper Monkey

10-20-2008, 08:05 PM

If you have decided between those two, then go with the second choice.

Oz/in holding rating isn't anywhere near as important as voltage vs. inductance. Go with the highest voltage supply you can run your drives on, and the lowest inductance motors you can get away with. The 495/oz motors have an inductance rating that is just stupidly high, and while the Z might need it, the X and Y just don't - your performance will suffer A LOT with higher inductance (and therefore slower) motors than the X and Y need. The second choice will run a lot faster - its not just cheaper, its actually the more correct system.

Ballistixx

10-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Stepper Monkey

10-20-2008, 10:52 PM

I would say the 282's are probably actually closer to the mark, and is what I would likely use - but that is my opinion, and is not universally shared.
I find low inductance motors with lower initial torque, but that hold that torque more steadily at all speeds invariably do much better than a motor with high inital torque that loses it rapidly as speed increases.
If you need the low initial grunt, like with a heavy Z, you have to make that compromise, but only as far as you have to.

TOTALLYRC

10-20-2008, 11:36 PM

:)How can you get bad advice from a Stepper Monkey?:)

All kidding aside, I agree with Stepper Monkey on this one. I feel that the 425's are beyond what most low end controllers can handle properly. The added benefit is that if you go with a second machine, the G540 will rock on that one as well and won't be as limiting as other options.

If a second machine is in your future (My crystal ball says it is) you will be able to swap the controller between the 2 machines, if you plan ahead. The current set resistors get installed inside the db9 connectors on the front of the G540:cool:. Each machine gets it own set of cables with the resistors built in and there are no worries.

On a side note, when your friends come to visit, do they tell their wives,

:banana:I'M GOING BALLISTIXX:banana:

(chair)Bad Mike(chair)

Ballistixx

10-21-2008, 03:17 AM

they try not to tell them too much, and definitely not the truth! lol

I am getting opinions from more than just this forum. I am not saying any of it is bad, tell you the truth wouldn't know the diff if it was, just very conflicting is all.

How does this sound then...

G540
1 pcs KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 110V/230V
power supply)
X-Y Axis- Nema 23 NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 282 oz-in
KL23H276-30-8B (1/4" Dual Shaft with flat)
Z Axis- NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR
KL23H2100-30-4BM (1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 495 oz-in

Please tell me I am getting closer to the ideal package.

One fella below said to get steppers with lbs-in of torque not ounces but pounds. I am confused enough already. Then I wonder does brand favoritism come into play in peoples recommendations, or sales perhaps??? I am not talking about anyone particular on this forum. I am getting advice from other places as well.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful for the advice, but I find it hard to believe there are so many different opinions on what are the most ideal motors for this application. I understand there is more than one way to skin a cat, but there is a good, better, and best way!

I truly do appreciate you guys taking your time to (mess with my head ;)) oops I mean help me out answering my questions. Thank all of you!

(Before anyone is offended that was my poor attempt at humor.)

Regards,
Jason

Stepper Monkey

10-21-2008, 04:13 AM

You will always get a lot of opinions about these subjects.

Even among those of us who know what we are doing there is a broad range of valid opinion about what works best for different styles of machining and different jobs we do. There is no one answer, but a range that works.
You are most likely getting two different completely ranges though. This is likely because, just to add to the confusion, you will also get a lot of opinions from people who don't know what the hell they are doing in the first place that need to give advice anyway. Welcome to the internet.

Eventually you just need to ask not what the advice is, but who and where it is coming from, and how they got to that conclusion. The advice on the zone is usually some pretty sound stuff.

I think I know exactly what two schools of thought you are running into on the stepper issue. One school includes the engineers that design stepper systems (including the man who designed your G540), and they will reiterate pretty much exactly what you are hearing on here, and give you equations to work for yourself if you like. There is another school of thought that rejects the need for things like equations or laws of physics, because everyone knows if it is a bigger hammer it must work better and they don't need no fancy college boys or newfangled (1687 A.D.) math to try and trick them about whats best.
You figure out for yourself the advice you should follow, there are plenty of adherents in both camps, both extremely happy with their choices, even if only one is happy with their actual machines.

cyclestart

10-21-2008, 09:05 AM

Take what follows fwiw keeping in mind I know very little of the academic side of these matters.

Drives and motors are part of the complete system. Any advice given without knowing the design of the machine and the intended use will be a bit useless.

My X2 is setup like this:
5 tpi ballscrews on all axis
the z axis has a timing belt, 2 turns of the motor advance the screw 1 turn
x and y are direct drive
the z axis has a counterweight
425 oz-in on all axis using 24 volt Xylotex system

This may not be optimal but it is a working configuration. The reason for 3 425's is that's the way Xylotex packaged the system and it didn't occur to me that a mix and match could be requested. 425's were selected to get the low speed torque needed for drilling operations. In hindsight 269's could have done the job for x&y and would have provided more top end speed. Possibly also smoother operation. Given the small working envelope of the X2, huge rapid speeds weren't one of my priorities.

Have you settled on a final mechanical design for the conversion? Type of screws, drive ratios, etc ? Are high rapid speeds and accelerations one of your priorities ?

I will be following this thread with interest. My Xylotex system blew an axis and I have settled on a G540 based package from Kelinginc. Have you been in contact with Kelinginc? The exact packages listed above do not appear on his website afaict.

TOTALLYRC

10-21-2008, 09:15 AM

Take what follows fwiw keeping in mind I know very little of the academic side of these matters.

Drives and motors are part of the complete system. Any advice given without knowing the design of the machine and the intended use will be a bit useless.

My X2 is setup like this:
5 tpi ballscrews on all axis
the z axis has a timing belt, 2 turns of the motor advance the screw 1 turn
x and y are direct drive
the z axis has a counterweight
425 oz-in on all axis @ 24 volts

This may not be optimal but it is a working configuration. The reason for 3 425's is that's the way Xylotex packaged the system and it didn't occur to me that a mix and match could be requested. 425's were selected to get the low speed torque needed for drilling operations. In hindsight 269's could have done the job for x&y and would have provided more top end speed. Possibly also smoother operation. Given the small working envelope of the X2, huge rapid speeds weren't one of my priorities.

Have you settled on a final mechanical design for the conversion? Type of screws, drive ratios, etc ? Are high rapid speeds and accelerations one of your priorities ?

I will be following this thread with interest. My Xylotex system blew an axis and I have settled on a G540 based package from Kelinginc. Have you been in contact with Kelinginc? The exact packages listed above do not appear on his website afaict.

Hi Cyclestart. I am glad somebody with an x2 chimed in. If you are running a 2:1 on the z axis and have a counterweight/spring also, do you think that you could make do with the 282 on the z also? If that would work, it would make those projects where you drill a bunch of holes much better/faster without sacrificing the low speed torque/resolution.
I am asking because we haven't got Ballistixx confused enough.

Mike.

P.S. Everyone has there own opinion and somedays I have 2. :)

cyclestart

10-21-2008, 09:37 AM

If you are running a 2:1 on the z axis and have a counterweight/spring also, do you think that you could make do with the 282 on the z also?

The short answer:
I don't know ;)

I look forward to any input. My inclination is to go with the 382 on the Z but this may not be optimal (?). Not sure at what point spindle power becomes the weak link. For sure the larger steppers will give some extra low speed grunt. The gecko with 48 volts should give a torque improvement over the Xylotex even at low speeds? That's a question, not a statement btw .

Fixittt

10-21-2008, 09:52 AM

The short answer:
I don't know ;)

I look forward to any input. My inclination is to go with the 382 on the Z but this may not be optimal (?). Not sure at what point spindle power becomes the weak link. For sure the larger steppers will give some extra low speed grunt. The gecko with 48 volts should give a torque improvement over the Xylotex even at low speeds? That's a question, not a statement btw .

Basic math will tell us that you are correct. the xylotex is limited by its power requirements. 24 volts. The G540 is double this so you will have more torque and higher RPM speeds with the same motors. I have both units. and I have both running on the same types of power supplies. 24v 6 amps. and for what "I" am doing they seem to be both working well. Now granted I am not throwing around the mass of the X series machines. Driver vs driver the g540 is the best route to go, its $100 more, but I did not have the issues to work thru with the G540 that I had with the xylotex setup.

HackMax

10-21-2008, 10:14 AM

TOTALLYRC

10-21-2008, 10:17 AM

Basic math will tell us that you are correct. the xylotex is limited by its power requirements. 24 volts. The G540 is double this so you will have more torque and higher RPM speeds with the same motors. I have both units. and I have both running on the same types of power supplies. 24v 6 amps. and for what "I" am doing they seem to be both working well. Now granted I am not throwing around the mass of the X series machines. Driver vs driver the g540 is the best route to go, its $100 more, but I did not have the issues to work thru with the G540 that I had with the xylotex setup.

Since the smaller stepperi s going to go significantly faster and its torque drops of much less with speed, I thought that I would ask. It would make a ncie package if Keling or one of the other package suppliers would find out and then put it up on their sites and here on the zone of course.
Even if you had to go to 3:1 to get the torque needed for low speed work, I think it would be better/faster on the high speed side of things.
Only other concern would be the steps/inch and could you generate enough steps/sec to go fast enough?

I would think that if the counter balance weight/spring compensated for most or all of the Z weight you wouldn't need all that much torque in the first place. Since the gecko morphs from micro to full step the picture looks even rosier.
The only concern I would have is if the counter weight had enough inertia and the stepper had so much acceleration that the weights effect would lag behind the steppers movement. Upon reflection, who is using an accel setting of 32'/sec/sec (1g) or even close? = 4608"/sec/sec

In Mach3 it gives the accel in g's and I would bet that most of us are using less than .3g.

Fixittt

10-21-2008, 10:29 AM

if im not mistaken, the g540s do not have the morphining integrated in them, different animal..........

TOTALLYRC

10-21-2008, 10:35 AM

Copied from the gecko G250 page. There are 4 inside the g540
"Microstep to full step morphing at higher speeds"

The g250/251/540 are based on the g203v core and are just using smaller drive components to get the 50v/3.5amp ratings. And of course to get us a great product at a reasonable (wonderfully low) price

TOTALLYRC

10-21-2008, 10:40 AM

Since you guys are talking the Gecko G540 I was wondering if this would control my X3 spindle motor directly with the OEM motor control? When I eventually put together a 4th axis for my setup I plan to buy one of these versus buying just another Keling drive if this is the case. All in all the Gecko is priced at close to the same as if I were going to use all Keling drivers with the added benefit of the Gecko features and quality. I'm not complaining about my Keling drivers as they are great so far and they function perfectly but I like how the G540 is packaged. If the G540 won't connect directly to the motor control in my X3 then I'd probably stick to Keling and use my current setup. Thanks.

Rick

Hi Hackmax, if the stock controller is using a potentiometer for speed control it may be possible. The G540 spindle controller is outputing 0-10v for speed control and the stock controller would have to be tied into this. It can probablly be done, but be carefull and wait for someone who knows more than me to give the details.

The other option is to replace the stock speed control with a unit that will interface easilly. Shouldn't be too expensive.
Mike
Mike

HackMax

10-21-2008, 11:09 AM

Thanks Mike. I'm not really too concerned with speed control as I am just shutting the motor off when its done with the program. I don't really want to have to keep checking on the thing to see if its finished. I know that Mach3 gives an estimated time of completion and I use that for longer programs but I would still like it to just shut off when it's finished. It would also be nice if the Mach3 program screen would show what time the program would be completed when the program starts as well. That way I would just come back at that time. I get busy though doing other things and sometimes I forget and it just sits there and runs. I was thinking of putting some kind of relay and switch at the home axis so when it returns home it will shut off. Then I can just go in anytime and turn the switch off. and set up for the next operation.

Rick

TOTALLYRC

10-21-2008, 11:23 AM

Fixittt

10-21-2008, 11:24 AM

not having relays and running very long programs. I found a simple yet very effective way of shutting off my spindle at the end of the program. I mounted a light switch on the side of the column. With a bar (Old calipers) at the end of the program I send the Z to a high number bar flips switch and spindle shuts off.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o247/toyrun/MAXNC/maxncresize.jpger

TOTALLYRC

10-21-2008, 11:34 AM

Stepper Monkey

10-21-2008, 11:39 AM

Stepper Monkey

10-21-2008, 11:44 AM

Nice workaround there Fixitt! That is a simple way to handle things if you have no relay attached.

HackMax

10-21-2008, 11:52 AM

I have come to take the estimated completion times with a grain of salt as they can be sometimes be wildly inaccurate. I have no experience with what you want to try, but I would think using that estimate as the basis for when to shut down the spindle would not really be a good idea.

Is there any reason why you couldn't just insert "M05" (spindle relay off) as the last command of your code so it shuts off the relay or speed control when the code, and the cut, is actually truly finished? It's simple, and Mach has a feature specifically for just this. I haven't tried any other methods though, as this is what works for me, so there may be other ways to skin that cat.
M3 and M5 are the standard way to do this though, it's why they are there!

Super idea there using that switch. It might be a temporary solution but I'm going to give that a shot until I can plan out a better one. I dont have a relay hooked up so the M3 and M5 won't work for me (as yet.)

As far as the estimated time of completion, it would give me a ballpark range when to come back and check on the machine not to have anything shut it down.

Rick

Fixittt

10-21-2008, 12:08 PM

I have refined it a bit more. Seeing as I work mainly from the center of my 4th axis my tools are generally always withing a few MM`s of each other. But I have moved the switch back a bit just so the bar will clear the plastic part of the switch. I then cut a small piece of rubber hose and put it over the switch. This gives some play so if I stick in a value that might be a bit higher then needed things will flex and not break.

Ballistixx

10-21-2008, 03:28 PM

Yes, I have spoken to "them". They quoted me for the package with the 3 495's at $589. I merely subtracted the diff. in price of the 495's to the 382's to arrive at $549. They are telling me I don't need the 495's for any axis but the Z.

As far as intended use it will mainly be used for cutting aluminum,brass, and a little steel. Some wood with a laminate trimmer attached.

I haven't gotten as far in my research to as to decide about timer belts, X# tpi ballscrews, counter weights etc. I have been looking over Hoss's website a good bit.

I want to climb one hill at a time.

I am now confident I am buying Option 2

G540
1 pcs KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 110V/230V
power supply)
2 pcs 8A:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 382 oz-in, 3/8” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4B (Dual Shaft)
1 pc. 8:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 495 oz-in, 1/4” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4BM (Dual Shaft)

I will definitely direct mount X&Y. I am not sure about Z.

Thanks For your reply (that includes everyone)

Jason

Take what follows fwiw keeping in mind I know very little of the academic side of these matters.

Drives and motors are part of the complete system. Any advice given without knowing the design of the machine and the intended use will be a bit useless.

My X2 is setup like this:
5 tpi ballscrews on all axis
the z axis has a timing belt, 2 turns of the motor advance the screw 1 turn
x and y are direct drive
the z axis has a counterweight
425 oz-in on all axis using 24 volt Xylotex system

This may not be optimal but it is a working configuration. The reason for 3 425's is that's the way Xylotex packaged the system and it didn't occur to me that a mix and match could be requested. 425's were selected to get the low speed torque needed for drilling operations. In hindsight 269's could have done the job for x&y and would have provided more top end speed. Possibly also smoother operation. Given the small working envelope of the X2, huge rapid speeds weren't one of my priorities.

Have you settled on a final mechanical design for the conversion? Type of screws, drive ratios, etc ? Are high rapid speeds and accelerations one of your priorities ?

I will be following this thread with interest. My Xylotex system blew an axis and I have settled on a G540 based package from Kelinginc. Have you been in contact with Kelinginc? The exact packages listed above do not appear on his website afaict.

Fixittt

10-21-2008, 04:32 PM

Ballistixx

10-21-2008, 06:15 PM

Jason, if your wanting to do this one step at a time, them Im sorry to tell you this my friend, but your starting at the wrong spot.
Step one. Make up your mind that you do in fact want to do this.
Step 2 Find suitable machine for what you want to do.
Step 3 make horribly bad decision to CNC said machine.
Step 4 decide what mechanics you are going to have to move ways on said machine.
Step 5 calculate the amount of mass you will be moving along with the linear motion components. IE screw pitch ect (Lots of people are good with the math on the ZONE)
Once you have determined the sum of the components and performance you are looking for. Then you come to step6
Step 6 locate motion control components to match your needs.
Step 7 Gasps at all the $$$ you have spent and time getting you this far.
Step 8 Hassel with the installation, and tuning of the machine
Step 9 moan and complain that something is just not right, tear down machine to find porblems.
Step 10 (Some time after step 9 is repeated several times) you marvel at what you have done and learned......
Step 11 break a bunch of tooling learning how to run your kickin machine :)
Rinse and repeat.

Step1: I want to and will do this- Done
Step2: I have the HF X2 Mill- Done
Step3: I apparently have made this "horribly bad decision"- Done
Step4: Ball screws- Direct drive X-Y Z-Ball screw most likely pulley-belt -Still deciding on Z axis
Step5:I have spoken to a fellow member who has actually already CNC'ed this machine. I will be using ball screws, I don't know the pitch. I will find out soon
Step6: I have done this. Calculated from the driver and power supply specs I know what package I will buy- Done
Step7: It is only money and you can't take it with you. I have no children.-Don't care
Step8: I am seeing the complications involved, and consider it a challenge.
Step9: Most likely more than once- I understand this
Step10: Feel joy and accomplishment. I will have learned another bit of info to fill the nogin. Learning is a life long experience, I can't get enough of it!
Step11-Refer to step 7

What mill do you have? Does it have a CNC conversion installed?

Regards,
Jason

Fixittt

10-21-2008, 07:10 PM

Ballistixx

10-21-2008, 07:56 PM

I actually have 2 small mills, one is a maxnc15 and one is a minitech minimill2 bot have been retroed with different electronics and motors. The maxnc has been extensively redone. I cut wax models for the jewelry industry.

Cool! I was asking out of curiosity nothing more.

I have not completely begun to grasp the scope of the task at hand, this I understand. I am a fast learner and I am aware that it will take plenty of time,money, and even more patience, but I will get it done.

I am basically going to follow a lot of what Hoss did to CNC his mill (same mill as mine), only I will be using the G540, a 48v pwr supply, 2 382's, and a 495.

Thanks,
Jason

Fixittt

10-21-2008, 08:13 PM

it took me close to 2 years to get the maxnc reliable and precise enough to turn out productive wax models. Granted I did most of my conversion the hardway. Do and redo. Change something, then find the weakest link and start the process all over again.

here is a thread on the work I did to the little POS machine. Now its a fast reliable producing machine.
2 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! amagine how many curse words you can say in 2 years, then triple it

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30988

TOTALLYRC

10-22-2008, 12:31 AM

Yes, I have spoken to "them". They quoted me for the package with the 3 495's at $589. I merely subtracted the diff. in price of the 495's to the 382's to arrive at $549. They are telling me I don't need the 495's for any axis but the Z.

As far as intended use it will mainly be used for cutting aluminum,brass, and a little steel. Some wood with a laminate trimmer attached.

I haven't gotten as far in my research to as to decide about timer belts, X# tpi ballscrews, counter weights etc. I have been looking over Hoss's website a good bit.

I want to climb one hill at a time.

I am now confident I am buying Option 2

G540
1 pcs KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 110V/230V
power supply)
2 pcs 8A:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 382 oz-in, 3/8” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4B (Dual Shaft)
1 pc. 8:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 495 oz-in, 1/4” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4BM (Dual Shaft)

I will definitely direct mount X&Y. I am not sure about Z.

Thanks For your reply (that includes everyone)

Jason

Based on the info that Keling, Cyclestart and Hoss are providing, It sounds to me that you are on the right track.

Worst case is to go direct on the Z and see if it works. All it will cost you is a little time and a few pieces of scrap. If you need to add a belt drive, it shouldn't be that difficult and you can probably do it with the machine in cnc mode.
5tpi screws sound right as anything less is too fast for a small mill and most machines in general.

While I wouldn't trade my children for anything, I am sometimes envious of the people that don't have that financial resposibility, or the worries that come with 2 children.

As everyone here will probably tell you the first machine is a learning experience and the second one goes much faster.

Remember.
1. Set the budget.
2. Blow the budget out of the water. LOL.
3. The tooling can cost more than the machine.
4. Did I say can? It should read will!!!!!! cost more than the machine.

cyclestart

10-22-2008, 09:47 AM

Yes, I have spoken to "them". They quoted me for the package with the 3 495's at $589. I merely subtracted the diff. in price of the 495's to the 382's to arrive at $549. They are telling me I don't need the 495's for any axis but the Z.

OK, was just curious as I'm planning to call next week after weighing the options.

As far as intended use it will mainly be used for cutting aluminum,brass, and a little steel. Some wood with a laminate trimmer attached.

Drilling is where the larger motors will help most.

I am now confident I am buying Option 2

G540
1 pcs KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 110V/230V
power supply)
2 pcs 8A:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 382 oz-in, 3/8” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4B (Dual Shaft)
1 pc. 8:NEMA 23 BIPOLAR STEPPER MOTOR 495 oz-in, 1/4” Diameter shaft with a flat
KL23H2100-30-4BM (Dual Shaft)

The larger motors sacrifice torque at higher rpm for more torque at lower rpm. If wicked rapids aren't the major concern, this looks like a reasonable trade off. Maybe I'll do the same.

As a totally unscientific experiment I put a bathroom scale on the mill table. 125 lbs of downforce was generated at 5 ipm before the steppers started to miss steps. It will be interesting to see how the gecko/keling combo compares.

OT/ Fixittt
How did some one who's obviously clever end up with a MaxNC ? :)

Fixittt

10-22-2008, 11:47 AM

way back when.... ohh about 10 years ago I was into cutting copper for watercooling computers. back when overclocking and hot chips were fun.
I wanted to get a small cnc machine that would fit the bill. (JUST WAIT FOR IT.........) I was where balistix is now. I called several companies and did some research. Remember 10 years ago there were not many choices. I listened to the sales idiot at maxnc when I asked him if the machine would cut copper. he said "SURE IT WOULD, Just take it a little slow" So I forked over the monies. Well when I got the machine I was excited. But the rapid movement of just 10 to 15 ipm were bad. To cut one of my blocks took close to 40 hours. at 2 ipm Needless to say, the machine got shelved shortly after. More due to the whining about the time I was spending in the garage. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have been at the bar. After a few years I dug the machine back out. No one to complain this time. I started playing again. Knew alot more about everything...... so I started seeing the weaknesses. Then I wanted to start cutting wax for jewelry. Major flaws really started to show themselves. So I started modifying. not having the money top replace the mill I was forced to work with what I had........ hence the need to come up with clever ways of doing things. Everything has been replaced on the maxnc. Only thing that is original is the blue frame. Which in turn has been modified as well.

Ballistixx

10-22-2008, 07:59 PM

This is a reply I got from a fellow member who has a the same rig as me all done up.

I can get 120 IPM rapids on my X and 80 IPM on my Y with my old 282 oz/inchers (with ballscrews)
at 40 Volts but I believe you'll do better with the 382's with the 48 Volts.
they weren't available when i built mine.
And the extra torque is always a plus.

Now I don't know what is considered fast, but that seems pretty darn fast
to me. I don't think in/min will be a problem, but then again what do I know.

I'll find out, perhaps the hard way!

Jason

way back when.... ohh about 10 years ago I was into cutting copper for watercooling computers. back when overclocking and hot chips were fun.
I wanted to get a small cnc machine that would fit the bill. (JUST WAIT FOR IT.........) I was where balistix is now. I called several companies and did some research. Remember 10 years ago there were not many choices. I listened to the sales idiot at maxnc when I asked him if the machine would cut copper. he said "SURE IT WOULD, Just take it a little slow" So I forked over the monies. Well when I got the machine I was excited. But the rapid movement of just 10 to 15 ipm were bad. To cut one of my blocks took close to 40 hours. at 2 ipm Needless to say, the machine got shelved shortly after. More due to the whining about the time I was spending in the garage. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have been at the bar. After a few years I dug the machine back out. No one to complain this time. I started playing again. Knew alot more about everything...... so I started seeing the weaknesses. Then I wanted to start cutting wax for jewelry. Major flaws really started to show themselves. So I started modifying. not having the money top replace the mill I was forced to work with what I had........ hence the need to come up with clever ways of doing things. Everything has been replaced on the maxnc. Only thing that is original is the blue frame. Which in turn has been modified as well.

alexccmeister

10-22-2008, 09:14 PM

At one time after setting up the mill with the new PSU, I can rapid at 5000mm/min (200ipm) and this is the threshold as I go any higher the who system will bind and stall. Not that you want rapid at this speed but after switching from 24V to 48V PSU, I get lots of torque at low speed and rapid reasonably fast.

TOTALLYRC

10-22-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote

This is a reply I got from a fellow member who has a the same rig as me all done up.

I can get 120 IPM rapids on my X and 80 IPM on my Y with my old 282 oz/inchers (with ballscrews)
at 40 Volts but I believe you'll do better with the 382's with the 48 Volts.
they weren't available when i built mine.
And the extra torque is always a plus.

Now I don't know what is considered fast, but that seems pretty darn fast
to me. I don't think in/min will be a problem, but then again what do I know.

I'll find out, perhaps the hard way!

Jason
Unquote.

I consider a machine slow when it takes a minute to go from one end of the table to the other. It is very painful when the machine only has 12" of travel.

On a small machine rapids in the 30ipm range make life better and the machine spends a lot less time going from one place to the other. On a complicated job it can save real time. Make no mistake, a machine that rapids at a fairly fast speed will be much more enjoyable to use. I mean that you can always turn it down, but you can't speed up a slow machine to make it go faster.

I would set the machine to a max rapid speed that you are comfortable with. Just because it can go 100ipm, doesn't mean you have to. On the motor setup page, just set it to what ever you want. I would suggest 30ipm and work your way up from their if you want. I will tell you that 10ipm is painfully slow. Especially if the part has a lot of holes to drill.

The nice thing is that if you build a router in the future, the fast rapids really come into play. 30 ipm is slow on a machine with 48" of travel, it would take well over a minute to go from one end to the other.

Mike

Ballistixx

10-22-2008, 11:58 PM

Hey Mike,

I bought myself an older computer today to dedicate to the mill. It cost me $120. I spent another $30 on ram. I will still need a video card for it, but it will still be under 2 bills for the system when finished.

It has a 64bit Athalon running at 2.1 something ghz
2gigs of ram
The gpu I am looking at for $36 bucks has 256megs of dedicated ram.

I think this cpu system will work fine for the mill (using Mach 3, Feature Cam, and Autocad) I am looking into Dolphin software now as well.

Man I haven't looked at a crt monitor for a long time now. Talk about eye strain!

Thanks for the idea!

Jason

Hi again Jason, I am glad to help. Nice job on the refund.

It is not an archaic connection, It is a high speed machine tool interface!!!!!!!
The reason is, is that it gets pricey to go any other way. If you don't want the pport, use a smoothstepper. $149 vs pport card $12 dollars. Use a cnc brain $400+. On and on.

If it is a new high end gaming rig, it might be pci express. Verify which one you have before ordering.
I just went to the local computer shop and picked up a used p4 2 ghz dell with winxp pro. $200. Lets me dedicate a computer to the machine.

You might want to email Mach3 to verify if they have an approved list of pport cards or check their forum. I have heard a few instances where certain cards won't work.

Mike

TOTALLYRC

10-23-2008, 12:07 AM

I would look at getting an used lcd or shop the Sunday flyers for a deal as time and money allow.

I walked into Staples the other day and walked out with a 21" widescreen monitor by Acer for $199 with a 2 year warranty. Since I use it for my workshop computer and to watch tv on (tv tuner installed) I couldn't pass it up.

I am always glad to pass on what works for me.
Mike

Ballistixx

10-26-2008, 09:40 PM

I scored a 15" wide screen lcd with speakers today for $30!

I bought a 256mb gpu. So I have a dedicated computer for the mill all ready to go, with plenty of headroom if the software updates and requires more computer.

So the rig consists of...
15" wide screen lcd with speakers
AMd Athalon 2700+ running at 2.17 ghz
2gb of ram
ATI 1900x pro w/256mb of ram
DVD Reader
CD Burner
Floppy
Wireless card

Thanks once again for all you advice Mike!

Jason

I would look at getting an used lcd or shop the Sunday flyers for a deal as time and money allow.

I walked into Staples the other day and walked out with a 21" widescreen monitor by Acer for $199 with a 2 year warranty. Since I use it for my workshop computer and to watch tv on (tv tuner installed) I couldn't pass it up.

I am always glad to pass on what works for me.
Mike

TOTALLYRC

10-27-2008, 02:00 AM

Remember to post pictures of what it all looks like when it is done.

Mike

Ballistixx

10-27-2008, 06:32 PM

TOTALLYRC

10-27-2008, 11:12 PM

Hello Mike,

I most definitely will post pics through out the build process.

I had a family member on the East Coast go to a HF store to buy the mill. The price was $389 as compared to the $599 online price. Now I am trying to find the cheapest way to get here to Maui, so far that is $423 (more than the mill)!

I am hoping to get it here a bit cheaper than that. I tell you Hawaii has nice weather and beaches, but shipping and buying metal working machinery here blows!

Jason

I would consider the following. But remember, I don't have the machine here to look at. Flat rate postage buy the good ol' USPS. There are now three different sizes of boxes. There is a 75lbs limit per box. I ship lathe chucks and stuff like that all the time.
Have your family member take it apart and put as much as possible into flat rate boxes. If there is anything left over, ship it by UPS or USPS, whichever is cheaper. They could always take a cheap flight out and put what is left in there luggage. This way they get to visit and play delivery man/woman.

Ballistixx

10-30-2008, 03:54 PM

Yeah I was thinking that in the beginning. It is in a wooden crate all banded up. So now it has me double guessing myself.

I am assume it goes together like the micro mark version of the x2, shown in this link...
http://www.micromark.com/html_pages/instructions/82573i-a/82573assyinst.html

The heaviest piece has to be the base. I will have to think about it some more and in a hurry. I feel like a kid a X-MAS and I want my toy!

Jason

I would consider the following. But remember, I don't have the machine here to look at. Flat rate postage buy the good ol' USPS. There are now three different sizes of boxes. There is a 75lbs limit per box. I ship lathe chucks and stuff like that all the time.
Have your family member take it apart and put as much as possible into flat rate boxes. If there is anything left over, ship it by UPS or USPS, whichever is cheaper. They could always take a cheap flight out and put what is left in there luggage. This way they get to visit and play delivery man/woman.

TOTALLYRC

10-30-2008, 11:02 PM

Yeah I was thinking that in the beginning. It is in a wooden crate all banded up. So now it has me double guessing myself.

I am assume it goes together like the micro mark version of the x2, shown in this link...
http://www.micromark.com/html_pages/instructions/82573i-a/82573assyinst.html

The heaviest piece has to be the base. I will have to think about it some more and in a hurry. I feel like a kid a X-MAS and I want my toy!

Jason

Hi Jason, I live on the east coast so it could already be set up in my shop if I bought it.

I understand that shipping to the Islands has to suck real bad, but the winters are probably less snowy than here.:)

I will go out on a limb and say that breaking it into smaller pieces has to be cheaper than shipping the whole thing in one piece.

Worst case is break it in to sub-assemblies that are less than 75lbs. At least stateside that is the point at which the pricing gets silly, but best check with ups/usps first.

:)If I could get it into my carry on bag , I might be talked into a visit.:)

Let us know when it arrives.

Mike