I have a helicopter, a T-Rex 450, hence my username, and I was thinking about starting to mill my own metal parts, but I wasn't sure what kind of machine I'd need, I was thinking maybe 3 to 4 axis, and that I could manufacture it myself. It will be cutting Aluminum.

If you are looking for another hobby build it youself. If you're interest is making parts then buy ready rolled.

Something to think about

Phil:)

I have a helicopter, a T-Rex 450, hence my username, and I was thinking about starting to mill my own metal parts, but I wasn't sure what kind of machine I'd need, I was thinking maybe 3 to 4 axis, and that I could manufacture it myself. It will be cutting Aluminum.

I think I need another hobby, something less expensive...

I am only 13 years old, but I am receiving CAD training through TSA at my school. So I know about the points and all that and surfaces. I just need a cam software to run the CNC mill...

I was thinking of building a replica of that pipe DIY mill, do you think it can precision make parts, or is there a cheap mill that I can use...

This would be for making my own helis, and selling them. These parts are TINY, some of them only the size of your pinky finger, the thing is they're made from aluminum, which is I heard easy to cut.

iflymyhelishigh

Very cool to have a 13 year old ready to build things the pipe mill would not be a good place to go the Rockford type of mill, built in metal would be better for your projects With a good ER type spindle would do the job for you You can PM me if you need some help

Also take a look at the little sherline mills these might do you as well but it will be more fun for you to design your own & build it

The little pipe mills and similar are fun to build, awesome demonstrators to get the understanding and experience of how CNC machining works, and can actually even turn out some fun stuff in wax/foam/plastic/wood.
What it won't do is turn out precision pieces, or much of anything in aluminum at all. You are looking at a very significant investment there no matter how you go.

I think its great to see someone so young into this, if you need help I'm in too, let us know what you need.

I think I need another hobby, something less expensive....


Boy did you pick the wrong hobby......:)

Like some of the others mentioned the pipe cnc isnt going to cut aluminum the way you are going to want it. Just starting out and with a small budjet you might want to search some on the Seig X1. Its small and affordable.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47158

Here is a cnc kit for it

http://cncfusion.com/micromill1.html

and the motors and controller for it

http://www.xylotex.com/3AxSysKit.htm

Of course it can be even more affordable if you make the cnc kit yourself. And ebay often has some deals on motors and drivers.

Here is a free program to control the motors

http://www.linuxcnc.org/

And a free cam program

http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page


Im willing to help out as well if you need it.

yep definitely the wrong hobby if your looking for less expensive, I also fly RC heli's (trex 450, ECO 8, numerous FP micros) and the helicopters are far cheaper :)

I've made a few parts for my ECO's, and plan to make more, but its cost a whole heck of a lot more to make them than it would have been to buy them, good thing its a fringe benefit of the hobby and not the desired goal.

one other thing to think of is the understanding of how these parts are made. Alot of people buy a cnc machine thinking that it will be easy. Well it is not. Alot of machines end up on ebay or in garages under piles of other stuff because it is not easy. You will spend more time machining fixtures and hold down methods to make the part then actual time making the part. Please do not take this wrong, but it takes alot of patients and for thought. If I were you, and you are interested in CNC not just to make heli parts, I would start off cheaper and gain some understanding how the CAD/CNC mesh together. it is one thing to understand how to make a part in cad, but its totally different when it comes time to try and make the part. If you start off small and work your way up. By the time your in high school you could be making really cool after market parts for your first car. imagine that..... all your friends wanting a cool part for their cars.......
We are here to help in any way possible.

Wow! So many people offering help! Thanks guys.

I think that I will be machining different parts other than just helis, because I'd be wasting money then. My school has a DaVinci CNC Mill, its a 3 Axis, but its supposed to be really good.

I am currently building a Lego NXT CNC mill, which is for cutting my name into burnt toast :D

I am currently building a Lego NXT CNC mill, which is for cutting my name into burnt toast

That so completely rocks I am at a loss for words.

indeed, we need pics and or video - ;)

Dave

Not yet, I'm going to work on my homework for now. I have the X axis tray done, but the Y axis, I'm not too sure about that.

right now, I have it set up so that the "cutter" motor is turned by another motor, which will curve the lines, but the programming is going to be REALLY hard, because everything will have to be in sync. I will work on it over the weekend, its really getting the actual Y tray(already built) to move without having to mount the motor on the X tray. I do not have rider bars, so without those, its a LOT harder. I will keep working and post a vid and pic when I'm done :)

ohhh make some small channels for some small legos to slide inside, then down the center put some wheels!!!!!!

man I wish I had all my old legos from back when I was a kid........

Alright, so I'm looking for a machine now. What to buy, so many choices how many axis's, GAWD THIS IS HARD!

Anyone have any recommendations?

man, you do know this is not going to be cheap right?

My first suggestions would be either a sherline or a taig. Solid little machines. Great to learn on.
Expect to pay at least twice the cost of the machine itself on tooling.

Alright, so I'm looking for a machine now. What to buy, so many choices how many axis's, GAWD THIS IS HARD!

Anyone have any recommendations?

Step 1. Figure out your budget.
Step 2. Blow your budget out of the water. LOL:cool:

All kidding aside your budget will be the deciding factor in how you progress. Don't be in such a rush that you have to buy stuff 3 times.

There are at least 2 ways to go. One is to buy a good basic manual machine and then convert to cnc as you go.

The other is to go cnc from the start. Seeing as how you have access to machine at school, you can make any of the needed parts at school. I bet your teacher might even let it be an extra credit project.

Speaking from experience, spend the money up front on quality controls. Good controls can run any number of machines, but a great machine is just so so with lousy or slow controls.

If you take your time up front, it is real easy to setup your controls to be able to run more than one machine. One at a time of course.
You will find out fast that once you have a mill, you need a lathe.
If you have a lathe, you need a mill.

Start with a 3 axis mill. you can add a 4th later if you need it.


As a Taig owner I can say it is a great place to start and for many people a Taig is their only machine for many years. If you stick to small aluminum parts I think you will get many years of service out of it. I read in another post that one person has 2 of them. Instead of trying to go real fast he runs 2 machines. He has a nice buffer if one machine breaks and the total thruput is acceptable for him.

Look long and hard at all the posts on machine controls before you chose. I would recomend Gecko over the Xylotex but price will be your deciding factor.

I think another option would be to find someone locally to help out and act as a teacher/mentor.

I have taught myself alot about this hobby/buisiness and the road is long, not real hard ,but the time involved can be staggering. You could also look for a summer job working in a machine shop.
I worked as a machine operator (read button pusher/parts changer)for 9 months in my twenties. I learned a lot of the basics and I was able to read the machine manuals while the big machining center was going.

It was this experience that got me hooked and in my forties I was finally able to get myself a machine. If I hadn't had to move out of state because my wife got a great job, I probably would have become a full time machinist then.

In CT there is a critiacl shortage of machinsts. I was told at a seminar that the average age of a machinst is 56 or close to that. With the limited number of people entering this field we will not have enough people to do the work in 20 or 30 years. Look around, they were willing to provide significant tuition assistance and a gauranteed job if you passed with a C+ or better. Good solid american companies close to home.

Keep up the good work.
Mike

P.S. I am in north central CT. And would be willing to help out, with your parents permission of course. As would a great many others I am sure.
I fly R/C too and the family ran a hobby shop for 10 years. I am took a year off from flying to get my machines and workshop in order. I just might be done before the spring flying starts.

hehe, I know how much this things gonna cost... Now to find the money...

now my teacher told me that a 3 axis mill that he has, its some pitsco mill, let me find it woops can't find it, its discontinued

The mill is a 3 axis Dremel mill, which was sorta like the Pipe mill. I don't get why I can not just flip the part to whatever I need, and prgram the CAM to do it on one side...

hehe, I know how much this things gonna cost... Now to find the money...

now my teacher told me that a 3 axis mill that he has, its some pitsco mill, let me find it woops can't find it, its discontinued

The mill is a 3 axis Dremel mill, which was sorta like the Pipe mill. I don't get why I can not just flip the part to whatever I need, and prgram the CAM to do it on one side...

I don't understand the flip the part part:confused: of your question.
Mike

i believe he is referring to machining a part that has a top and a bottom and manually flipping the part.
You can if in some cases. and some cases you have removed material to the point that the top side has nothing to hold onto.

Yes that was what I was talking about. Why do these pipe mills not prove good for my wants? I know I may seem like a brick wall, but I don't get why. It has 3 axiss...

ok, lets see if I can clear this up.....
take a straw hold it at the bottom and push with your finger at the top. It will flex. Then kink over.

Now take a solid bar of 3/8 aluminum, and repeat the process. No flex. now take a 1 inch thick block of steel ...... get the picture now? If your wanting to play with toast. It will work, if your wanting to machine aluminum or other metals. This just not rigid enough to do it. Not to mention the fact that its never going to be square. It will be fine for doing drawing on paper ect. but if your application calls for making precise moves and precise cuts. Its just not going to be able to. Not to mention their mass is not great which will introduce alot of vibration which will effect the cut as well. There is a reason things are made big and heavy in the machining industry.

ahh I get it now. What if I were to make my own machine, that actually looks professional, using square tubes or something?

Off course I'd be welding it, thats what I haveaccess to a welder for.

There isn't anything wrong with a pipe mill or other budget option for getting started in learning more about machines, and in writing code for them as the concepts stay the same from a small mill to a bigger one - it will if nothing else teach you enough concepts about machine design to know exactly what you need and want in a bigger design when you move up.
There are many problems with flex, vibration, backlash, and other fiddly things with homemade machines like the pipe mill to keep them from producing great stuff, but they actually are capable of producing some surprisingly pretty good stuff in soft materials.

One machine no on speaks of much here is the Proxxon MF70. It's about the same size but is ready made. If Playskool made a "my first mill" it would look like one of these. These are GREAT to learn machine concepts on. They are a couple hundred bucks, they convert to CNC in ten minutes with only hand tools, skateboard bearings, and hardware store parts. They actually can produce some excellent work, even on some aluminum and brass types. They have a surprisingly good spindle (Minitech actually uses them on thier mills) with enough speed range and power to go from light metal cutting to engraving. The mills are just laughably small, and only make tiny parts, but they are cool. Some jewelers and watchmakers use them for parts. R/C parts would probably work fine.

Nice thing is they take Nema 17 or half-stack 23 motors, and they and the low power drivers to run them are pennies compared to the stuff to run bigger machines as often no one wants them. If you can't find motors for 5 bucks each on Ebay, I'll send you some of mine for free. I'm sure I'm not the only one with extras in a box somewhere.

Sorry, they are now up to about 300 bucks this year. Lousy exchange rate....

as stepper said they are good for a learning tool. but please understand that what they lack in rigid construction ect will sometimes lead you down the wrong path when your trying to find out "WHY" something didnt work. Its my humble opinion (Someone who has been down that path) to try and sway you from a inferior machine. If you start with something better built like the proxxom machine. Then you can rule out certain design aspects as a problem.
I started with a maxnc Big mistake because the machine is well, crap out of the box and spent 2 years and more money getting it to act "like it should" I could have gotten a better built machine or maybe even 2.
If you start with a solid performer it will make the learning curve alot easier. Again, my opinion......... taken from experience.

as stepper said they are good for a learning tool. but please understand that what they lack in rigid construction ect will sometimes lead you down the wrong path when your trying to find out "WHY" something didnt work. Its my humble opinion (Someone who has been down that path) to try and sway you from a inferior machine. If you start with something better built like the proxxom machine. Then you can rule out certain design aspects as a problem.
I started with a maxnc Big mistake because the machine is well, crap out of the box and spent 2 years and more money getting it to act "like it should" I could have gotten a better built machine or maybe even 2.
If you start with a solid performer it will make the learning curve alot easier. Again, my opinion......... taken from experience.

:cheers:I can't argue with Stepper or Fixxit. Especially when I completly agree with them.:cheers:
Understand what you want and are trying to do and be honest with yourself. A flimsy machine with the greatest machinst running it will make so so parts. A rigid machine will help make a flimsy machinist produce good parts even if it is by accident. :)

(chair)You will go bald trying to make good quality parts on a junk machine.(chair)

Hi iflymyhelishigh,
I have an MF-70 as my first cnc mill. good quality, but *VERY* limited on size.
As a first mill it will show you the way, but you will quickly want a bigger machine I suspect.
Im my case I have a 10x42 (IIRC) TOS FNK mill for most stuff, and Im looking at getting a 'medium' sized CNC in the near future to...
Got some madman prodding me to make a 200 sized nitro heli :p


Dave

why hello small planes! I never expected to meet you here!

I'm staying small, but the biggest parts probably one day going to be a 90 size part.

The Proxxon work envelope is 46mmx 134mm ( less than 2"x about 5"). You can use all of it, as you need somewhere to clamp the work down. Draw a rectangle that size on a piece of paper and you'll see how small that is. I find the rectangle method is quite useful in comparing capacities, its very visual.

Dave

heres picture shows proxxon sitting on a kneemills vice.

:D
Thats my Proxxon (yep its going to be 4 axis, got some tiny radial compressors to make....), on my TOS...

Dave