I have a Cincinnati Saber 750 with an Acromatic 850 CNC Control on it when I try to power it up it has a Z over travel plus the T/C parked in front of the spindle like it want to do a tool change. Tried to hold in on the power button and jog Z down know luck. The machine is new to me. could use some help

Clip

My condolences.

The Cincinnati corporations went out of business for a reason. I'm afraid that the British built Saber was part of that reason.

try holding the master start, go to select, them mech/jog and press the mechinachal jog button on the left hand side.

You have to park the carousel before you can jog the spindle off the limit.The machine hasnt been dropped has it?

Cincinnati didn't go out of business, it was purchased by Siemens. The Saber I we have is extremely well built, with 10k rpm chilled spindle, 1000 ipm rapids from AC sinusoidal Fanuc drives, and unlimited program feed, rigid tap, and will hold a tenth all day long when properly setup.

FYI, they'd still be here today but Siemens killed the Acramatic control in favor of the 840D, etc. Many consider the Acramatic 2100 and 850SX to be one of the friendliest, most powerful controllers out there--despite Siemens ending their life.

I have a Cincinnati Saber 750 with an Acromatic 850 CNC Control. I must admit I am not very familiar with this control. I have a question concerning alignment. I am assuming this is like homing the machine with other controls please correct me if I am wrong in that assumption. The book describes witness lines to jog the axis to. On my machine I have a placard in the uppermost Z axis region. I found a pointer on the X axis and a couple of scratches that look like remnants of a witness mark. On the Y axis I have found nothing any Ideas where to look?

Vince

I have a 1250 with a 850sx control which should be the same as yours just bigger and to align the machine you need to press the align key to the left of the screen and it will align automatically. as far a witness lines you can for instance do what i do, which is to move the axis right before the limit switch and then press the align button by doing this it shortens the time it takes to align the machine.

Ive had several of these machines over the years. Overall a good machine and the 850 is a good control.

When you turn the machine on you must first use the rapid keys to align manually to the witness marks on all axis. There is a 1" by 3" card at the top of the z axis. If you cant see the "-z-" just center up to the card as best as you can. The x axis is marked on the front bottom edge of the table and if you look over the right hand side edge of the table and down toward the bottom inside the machine you should see some alignment tabs for the y axis. Match them up. When thats done press "align", machine will ask you "align axis", at this time press the align again and the machine will move around slowly and align itself.

Note: if you cannot see the witness marks at all you can try to move the axis' up, back and to the right all the way untill e-stop. Then press and hold the master start button while backing away just a little bit. You may need to try several times to hit the sweet spot but you dont have to be exact either. Make sure you mark that spot for the next time you startup.

Sometimes if you are too far over the overtravel dog, you need to turn the machine off and turn the ballscrew by hand (its easy) to lower it down or out of the overtravel zone.

As far as the tool carosel, you can push it back by hand out of the way if you depressurize the air cylinder. Dont worry, you cant break it. Just disconnect the air and if nec. unplug one of the air supply tubes attached to the cylinder to move it out all of the way back. Then your on your way. BTW I have repaired these air cylinders before, if they leak they wont work so you have to take off machine, dissasemble and replace the seals. $15.00. Or you can call Maintenance Technologies (current supplier of parts and service for cinci) and pay out the ying/yang for a new.

Good luck!

850 control has some really cool automatic milling cycles for pad, pocket and side milling. Have fun, I sure did. :rainfro:

Griz and Monster thanks for your help. I was able to align the machine. Have a great day

Vince

Does anyone have a programming manual for the Cincinnati Saber 750 with an Acromatic 850 CNC Control. I have all the manuals but the programming manual would like to find a digital or hard copy of it.

Thanks

ebay normally always has a manual or two

Again guys thanks for the help. I have several questions I am hoping someone can help me with. As I said before this control is completely foriegn to me. My other machine has a meldas control on it and this one seems completely different. First question: There again is no markings on the tool carousel to let me know which one is pocket one. I have moved through them until one of them took on the align button, but I have no real idea if it is number one or not. Any Ideas? Second I have heard that some of these machines rigid tap. How would I know if mine will ? It has a A850 MC control version 3.0 release 5/29/90. Third I am wanting to hook this machine to a serial port on my computer and use hyper terminal to transfer programs. Is this possible through the tape port on the machine? what would be the pin out for the cable? any info etc? 4th if anyone has a program that they would send me it would help greatly in modifying my post. I use visual mill 6.0 for cam. 5th I have no idea how to set up the tools and record the offsets, if anyone has some procedure that would be a great help. Something else that I am curious about is the fixture offsets. If someone can tell me how that works I would be greatful. Any help getting up and running would be great.

Thanks


Vince

As far as I know the carosel should of had numbers on it, all of ours do. I do not think it really matters , as there are no sensors on the carosel that would determine pocket postion. The only sensors I know of are on the index mech to determine that the index is in position / done. So what ever pocket you declare as #1the machine will index the number of times required to get to the next called tool. I am NOT positive this is the way it works as we have not tried it, if anyone else has any knowlege about this please chime in! You may have to do a little experimenting to determine if this is indead how the control functions.

Rigid tapping: This is a option on the machine you will need to see if it is turned on
press "Machine Setup" then "service" and see if Spindle Feedback is highlighted. If it is then you can rigid tap.

Use the "punch/dataline" connector on the side of the main control cabinet for connection to your PC. I do not have the pin out handy but will try to find it. We use a DNC program for downloads. I have not tried hypertermal.


Rick

Dan thank you for the information it has helped a lot. If I could trouble you a bit more could you let me know if your standing in front of the machine looking at the tool carasol do the tool pocket numbers increment up as you go around the carosel to the left or the right. I am goint to try to remark them. According to your information my machine doesn't rigid tap as spindle feedback is not highlighted. I have been sent the information on the DNC set up and the manual information of setting tools. The only thing I don't have that I would like to have is a copy of a known good program so I can see how things flow, and tweak my post. It would be great if the program made use of the fixture offsets so I could see how they are called. Thanks agian for all of the help.

Vince

I am so sorry I meant thank you Rick I just got off the phone with Dan.

Vince
The tool pocket numbers increase to the left. ie the carosel turn ccw (viewed from the top) to increase the tool number.

Good luck

Rick

Hi Rick, good to run into you on here! I hope your sabres are running good these days. I sold both of my Sabres and now have an OKK PCV-50. Its a great machine with box ways and a little more suitable for my work. Mitsubishi control has excellent tech support (as good as cinci). Anyway, Thanks again for all of your help on my Sabres.
Kyle
Promega Machine Tool Co.

Hey Kyle

Were keeping these ole machines going, at least 5 out of 6.

How business?

Rick

Thanks for all the help so far. Just one more question. When we try transfering the code into the cincinnati we get a msg that a colan block is needed. So i was wondering if anybody had any sample code they could show us or tell us where to put the :'s in.

I can post some in the AM once I get back to work.

Rick

OK Verbers here is some code

: G90 G00 G61 G70
(MSG, Job Number -0. )
(MSG, Program Date - 18-11-08 {Day:Month:Year})
(MSG, Program Name - 504FIXC )
(MSG, T7 =.187 EM )
T7 M6
M1
G0 X3.5222 Y-7.0784 Z2.0 H01 S9444 M3
G0 Z.2
Z.1
G1 Z-.181 F52.0
X3.2414 F68.0
G3 X3.2249 Y-7.0949 I3.2414 J-7.0949
G1 Y-7.2196
G3 X3.2414 Y-7.2361 I3.2414 J-7.2196
G1 X3.5222
G3 X3.5387 Y-7.2196 I3.5222 J-7.2196
G1 Y-7.0949
G3 X3.5222 Y-7.0784 I3.5222 J-7.0949
G1 Z.1 F52.0
G0 Z.2
X3.3856 Y-7.0859
Z.1
G1 Z-.181
G41 Y-7.0822 F68.0
G3 X3.3818 Y-7.0784 I3.3818 J-7.0822
G1 X3.2414
G3 X3.2249 Y-7.0949 I3.2414 J-7.0949
G1 Y-7.2196
G3 X3.2414 Y-7.2361 I3.2414 J-7.2196
G1 X3.5222
G3 X3.5387 Y-7.2196 I3.5222 J-7.2196
G1 Y-7.0949
G3 X3.5222 Y-7.0784 I3.5222 J-7.0949
G1 X3.3818
X3.2414
G3 X3.2323 Y-7.0811 I3.2414 J-7.0949
X3.2313 Y-7.0863 I3.2344 J-7.0843
G40 G1 X3.2333 Y-7.0894
Z.1 F52.0
G0 Z.2
G0 Z12.
G0 G98 X15 Y19
M2
%


Basically the : identifies the start of the program block and the % the end

Rick

Again thanks for your help. We have a program in it and it will run. I am still tweaking the post a little but making progress. I now have the programming manual that should help a bunch. Now I have what is probably the dumbest question to date, and I am officially embarrassed to ask it, but I have done a lot of reading and can't figure it out.
How do you get the tools in the tool drum ? Okay stop laughing at me. lol

Vince

Vince

the hard part is finding out how to move the drum manually

Here is how to get to that screen, this is from memory I will go and verify later today

Press MDI push button (located below screen)
press "select" button on RHS of screen (select is displayed on the screen)
press "mech jog"
press either "drum increase" or "drum decrease"
press Mech jog push button (lower left area of operator station) to move drum

Jog the drum around to the tool station and just stick them in there by hand. Be sure to get them loaded in the correct orientaion as the slots in the tool holders are not the same one will fit the key on the spindle and the other will not. the bigger of the slots sould be to the outside of the drum.

Rick

I want to again thank everyone for there help especially Rick. We are now making parts. This was a completely foriegn control for me and your help has greatly reduced the time to get running. Have a great Day.

Vince

I have an original program from Cincinaati that allows you to use the hyper terminal, drip feed and everything. Its pretty cool you just start the DNC program at the pc them use terminal to send or recieve programs right from the control to any drive from your pc. It also when you run it in dos has the ability to drip feed. I got it from Acramatic Control User Group on Yahoo they upload files for all to share. Its the way to go with this control for DNC and this uses your RS 232 port. Email me And I will try and help with your other issues. I have about 13 yrs working with that control.

Forgot to mention I have the pin ups for this control. Also using hyper terminal allows you to increase your buad rate more comparable to a modern control. Fixture offsets are at Mach Setup.