I'm wondering what types of machines/setups manufactures would be using to make the small aluminum parts such as the ones used for R/C cars. As you see in the link below, the part is very small yet quite detailed/complex. They would also be making ten's of thousands of these parts, just curious what they would be using to make all these small parts.



http://www.integy.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=4762&p_catid=

Or would something like that be cast aluminum?

However I know there are very small parts out there, that are machined and they are producing 10000's of them. I can't help to wonder what their production line would look like. 50 tiny mills with someone standing there changing work piece positions? I know a lot of these larger companies would have full automation and robotics, but there's plenty of small guys who are pumping out tons of product who wouldn't have the money for full automation machines.

Maybe i'm out in left field but i can't help to wonder. :)

djn

Lots and lots of ways to do that. Machining tiny things is the opposite of me (I machine HUGE things - oil and gas parts and stuff) but looking at the pic, my guess is they're stamped out, probably in a couple of operations. Or you could cut from sheet (water jet or laser) and then finished. Or extruded and cut off to length. Or you load a lot of them onto a pallet and machine hundreds in one go on a full sized mill (very quick to to do in aluminium). Or die cast. Or sintered perhaps... I'd be interested what someone who makes small things thinks.

It pretty much depends on numbers as to the most cost effective way to do it.

The photo in the link you posted, looks like cast aluminum. The reason I say that is, the parts surface looks pitted.

I would say that part was cast, then the holes drilled/chamfered.


.

The part in the photo is die cast.
You can tell by the parting line on the part where the two mold halves seperate.

There is no second driling operation, the holes are molded-in.

2 of the holes are made with pins that are fixed to the mold core, and the 2 holes that are transverse, are made with pins that move inside the mold - those moving pins (generically called slides) retract after the metal is shot into the mold; allowing the part to be ejected after the mold opens.

It's also likely that the parts are made several at a time; on a "tree" (like plastic models) they can be hand seperated and manually de-burred (deflashed)(China) or put unto a punch press for the seperation from the sprue tree) The sprue and trimmings are re-melted, usually only seconds after being cast.

If the parts need precision boring or machining, they operation would be something like this:


Cast (maybe 6-12 or more on a tree)
punch press seperated and deflashed
tumbled
maybe plated, cleaned, dried
vibratory-bowl-fed and oriented to a cnc - lathe or mill, auto clamped and machined
washed and packed for shipping or next operation


The tooling and set up are not cheap - even in China - to make that part the quantities would have to be in the tens of thousands to make in economically. With a fast multi-axis cnc you might be able to make it for sub-a-buck. the same part die cast you can figure about $2-$4 USD per pound.

One more thing, that part might be "Zamac" Zinc-aluminum alloy. ("modern pot-metal" It's stronger (and heavier) than aluminum, and until last year cheaper on a per part basis.

If you want to make a million pieces, send me a PM.

Best regards,

Barry

If it is die cast it is one crappy die, surface finish is horrible so it probably did come from China, I would guess sand cast which is a whole lot cheaper, it would require secondary machining operations but with China using slave labor and prisoners, labor is not a factor. The only problem is if they are made in China they are more than likley garbage and either wont fit or will break after a few uses.
The products coming out of China are pure garbage and they don't care, they know most people will not bother to drive back to a store to return an item that only costs a few dollars so they flood the market with substandard garbage. Any one considering having parts of any kind made in China should reconsider, what good it is getting the parts cheap if they wont work or break after a few uses and don't forget it is a COMMUNIST country. A few years back trade with them would not have been allowed and it should be banned now. I would also ban any American company that moves its manufacturing over there from ever returning to this country. It is greed at the expense of American jobs and anyone that does it should be considered a traitor to this country and given the appropriate sentence that a traitor deserves, hanging by the neck. I Know way off base on this one it is just frustrating as an American manufacturer to see scumbags helping destroy our country to make a few bucks. If I ran this forum anyone helping to ship parts over seas would be banned from posting ,after all this is supposed to be an American site correct?

..and BREATHE.

Where does it say this is an american site? Any chinese manfs here?

The owner is quoting Ben Franklin so it was a wild guess that it was an American site. Free speech or not allowing Manufacturers or reps which I know there are some of those here the help to take American jobs away to line their pockets is a disgrace. As hobby machinists it may not affect you but as an American manufacturing company trying to keep American people employed it affects me and thousands of other people in this country.
It sickens me to see this happening and the people that are contributing to it, well guess what why don't you move to the third world country you are getting rich off of and live in the squander that those people live in for a while and see if you can still live with yourself knowing you are contributing to that.
As Americans it is time to stand up and voice your opinion, screw politicaly correct I don't care who it offends the facts are the facts and they are helping to destroy this country

So you don't believe in free markets? Or profit? Or Capitalisim? Or do you only believe in those things when you're the winner? Some socialist countries have factories run for the workers, on a not-for-profit basis, purely to provide jobs and support the community. Is that what you'd like? Lot to be said for that idea, but it's (shush) communisim.

I understand you're frustration, but surely you can't want a closed market for american manufacturers? Y'know, like Russia tried when they were communist? 'Cos that didn't work out too well.

Western manufactuers can't compete with china on cost, but they can on quality and customer service. The chinese work hard. We need to work smart and compete where we can.

That's that thread derailed then. :)
Oh, and I'm definitely not a hobbyist. An old fashioned apprenticeship, a degree in manufacturing and 12 years experience.

Its unreal how quickly a thread can be hijacked by someone who wants to vent lol.

I agree with Barry, those parts are most likely molded as a finished product with a little bit of deburring.

And joesz, speaking as a formally educated and trained Machinist and CNC Programmer with 11 years of manufacturing experience, I have to agree with inflateable.

Whether you want to admit it or not, you are a hypocrit because I am 100% sure that you are supporting the very thing that you protest. You cant say that everything you use is 100% American made.

pin man as an owner of a machine shop for 23 years and with 35 years of experience as a tool and die maker with a journeymans card ,CNC programmer and Engineer and I will tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. I buy American when ever possible even if it costs more, certain things you just have no choice because they are simply not made in the USA anymore thanks to cheap third world labor.
And to all you wannabe economic experts if you would like a list of the jobs lost in this country just from my area in the last few years then you can start to spout free trade.It is not free trade when you are being flooded with cheap products subsidised by a foreign government, that used to be illegal in this country. It is not free trade when they are allowed to export food, drugs and of all things kids toys that are killing people in this country. It is not free trade when they are not held to the same standards we are in environmental issues in basic human rights issues. How can you possibly defend this so called free trade how can you even call it free trade, do you even know what that means
As for quality being as good or better again you have no idea what you are talking about you must be watching too much TV how many of you have direct experiance with this, none? I am seeing products being brought back into this conuntry because of the garbage, poor deliveries and outright fraud by China, substituting materials or using substandard materials not matching specs. You can spout free trade all you want there is no such thing as free trade. Anyone that thinks this is helping the people of China .
watches too much Fox news they are being exploited and now that they are starting to see that the work is going to even more depressed places. I can tell you these are facts I deal with this on a daily basis so do not try to pit what you hear on TV against what I have direct experiance with.
I did hijack this thread and I am sorry for that some of you are blind and need to open your eyes, stop listening to what you hear on TV or read in the papers it does not reflect reality. I know I will get flamed for this but since I took this off track in the first place I wont post again. Let me say one final word any one of you that is for this unbalanced trade with China should move there and get the heck out of this country.
Inflateable your comments about capitalism and free markets for profit make no sense in this post you are so far out of touch that further discussion on the subject is pointless. When you have some real world experiance instead of what you see on TV then possibly you will be qualified to discuss this subject, until then you are only exposing your lack of knowledge

...........If I ran this forum anyone helping to ship parts over seas would be banned from posting ,after all this is supposed to be an American site correct?

That was a nice rant.

Have you ever looked into how dependent US heavy manufacturing is dependent on exports, and how dependent the US is for imports of raw materials?

And why blame a manufacturer for wanting to make things cheaper? Nobody puts a gun to the customer's head forcing them to buy cheap low quality imports instead of more expensive quality made domestic products.

I am talking from experience, believe it or not. I'm British, but I work for an american company, and we're taking work AWAY from chinese companies. We're taking work home from Indian companies. We even SUPPLY chinese companies.

How? We're faster, leaner, more accurate, have 100% customer service, zero scrap rate (<10ppm), zero customer returns. and in the long run, we're cheaper. Companies we supply go to Chinese companies, and six months later they're back. Why? Because we're better on all counts. We had a 20million dollar profit last year with 200people working here.
i.e. We compete.

I understand completley your point of view, honestly. We support local job shops as much as we can here, with tool and die work. But you can't buck the market, and you can't force people to buy from you. This is the reality, and you have to deal with it. If you can't compete, with respect, it's time to sell up.

you can start to spout free trade.It is not free trade when you are being flooded with cheap products subsidised by a foreign government, that used to be illegal in this country. It is not free trade when they are allowed to export food, drugs and of all things kids toys that are killing people in this country. It is not free trade when they are not held to the same standards we are in environmental issues in basic human rights issues. How can you possibly defend this so called free trade how can you even call it free trade, do you even know what that means



sounds like free trade to me
also sounds like capitalism !
you can blame the chinese people all you want but it is American companies who are moving their operations to china ,so who's at fault ?
it amazes me how much anger and hatred gets directed at china when all they are doing is working to make their lives better and hope maybe their children have the same benefits ours did or do !

do you honestly beleave they should say no to the flood of work pouring into their country from yours , would you if the tables were turned ?

noone takes responsibility for anything anymore, everything is everyone elses fault !!!!

pin man as an owner of a machine shop for 23 years and with 35 years of experience
So you started working in a machine shop when you were 11? Considering your profile states you are 46. Does your animosity towards China derive from your childhood?

Were you slave child labor? lol

So you started working in a machine shop when you were 11? Considering your profile states you are 46. Does your animosity towards China derive from your childhood?

Were you slave child labor? lol

PMSL :D thanks

Yes it is the American companies I thought you understood that ,it is also our government that allows it to happen. you are off base I have no problems with the people of China I do have a problem with their government,our government for allowing it to happen and the large corporations exploiting the population. If they are such great people and helping the people of China then why do they pay wages that will not support a family. Do not beleive everything you see on TV the reality is far from what they are showing you. I have personally talked to people that have been there. They are not helping the people they exploiting the cheap labor. And since the people of China are starting to wake up, guess what the corporations are pulling out and moving to India and South Africa where they can exploit those people until they wise up. There is no one gaining anything from this except the large corporations, it is not free trade you need to open your eyes it is far from free trade. It is corporate and government corruption and greed and that is all it is. It is only a matter of time before you lose your job over this or someone you know loses their job so if you are ok with being unemployed or having a family member unemployed so that the CEO of some large corporation can pocket another million in salary then there is no point in arguing. I said I was not going to post again but I can not let this go unchallenged. Some of you just do not have a clue about what the reality of the situation is and you should not be so quick to make comments about something of which your only knowledge comes from the television. What you believe and what is real are far from the same thing, trust me on that and in time you are going to see the proof of it when the economy of this country collapses. It is already well on it's way to collapse I suggest you open your eyes and look at the alternative opinions on this before it is too late do no be blindly led by the mainstream media and do not trust the government they are all liars and crooks and some of them are getting very rich off this while your neighbor looses his house because he lost his job to China and can not make the mortgage payments. If you defend this kind of behavior you are as bad as they are, I suspect however you are just brainwashed by the media and do not understand the real truth and I guess I can not fault you entirely for that.

And for you math whizzes I started running machines at home when I was 10 years old dad had a machine shop in our house so again you open your mouths prior to engaging your brain. If you would read my post you would know it is not China I have the problem with but since you can not be bothered to read and comprehend what I say this has become pointless

why do they pay wages that will not support a family.
Do not beleive everything you see on TV the reality is far from what they are showing you..
There is no one gaining anything from this except the large corporations


it is not free trade you need to open your eyes it is far from free trade. It is corporate and government corruption and greed and that is all it is. It is only a matter of time before you lose your job over this .




i agree %100 not to believe what propaganda is pushed on me

the peoples lives are far better than they were , ive worked with a number of gentlemen from china who were able to move back to their home and start a bussiness because the people are seeing the benefits of a better economy ,not just the military



as far as free trade goes dont even get me started on this one ,I'D LOST A JOB because of BS free trade between your country and mine when your government ripped us off for millions in illegal wood terriffs ,
i lost another good job after that because they packed up to move to the US for cheaper manufacturing costs
do i hold any ill will toward your people ,no ! trigger happy Bush ,ya !

i learned at a young age what its like to live in a bad economy and i don t forget what it feels like to be hungry .
the difference learning at a young age is , i know i am responsible for my future , noone else
it seems too many (not suggesting you ) people want to pass blame for their short comings

so again you open your mouths prior to engaging your brain.

I didnt have my mouth open when I typed that :withstupi

The whole point of all of this is the man simply asked a question about manufacturing processes and you had to flood the thread with your nonscense. You tell us not to believe the propaganda... but that is exactly what you are doing. Using an incorrect venue to invoke your literary vomit.

Go find a politics forum and leave this one to people who want to talk about machining.

and btw, thought you werent going to post anymore?

i always thaught that this kinda part is most easily made on a presureinjectionmolding thing wich uses pressure to make the molten material reach all parts of the part .this makes it possible to cast more detailed parts to tighter tol. and better finish.

It's hard to tell from the picture but, they look like they were machined from a solid (very poorly) and then probably powder paint finished.
If they were die cast then they must have had some post cast machining to end up looking like this.
Ther is no way thet the die could be functioning and produce parts like this.
Even with lamination, cold fills and explosions in the part the die set would have to be smoother than this appears to be, just to eject the part.
Also if everyone who is so certain these are die cast could point to the ejector pin pionts for me, because I can see were they should be but, there are none.
I would think anything this poorly done would show the pin marks too.
By looking at the part I can see just the way I would have done them in a mill, probably ten or twenty at a time in our H400 Mazak (made in the US, instaled, serviced and operated by US citizens, using tooling that is made in the US sold and supplied by a US company and a local salesman that has been their rep for almost twenty years)
I would be happy to make them for $2. ea. on quantities less then 1000 pcs/mo. any more then that can be discused.
What I think is most likely is that these parts were made by some "hobby machinist" in the basement( probably the guy that owns the store) and because that person knows so little about the profession this is what you end up with.
I wouldn't give you a bent penny for those parts and I don't care were they are made.
Bigotry and irrational political ranting is why I no longer go on RFQ .com I hope I don't have to make that same choice here. Whare is the moderator on this thread?

Yup. That part might have been made in China. Ningbo, China to take a closer guess. There are some high quality metal oriented factories in Ningbo and surrounding areas (and some crappy ones too), just like Cleveland...

Joesz,
How did you determine the surface finish of that part? The photo is poor. Yes there is a little blotchy discoloration that might indicate that the part might have been cooled in water or sanded with 50 grit, or jack hammered..

But since we know that it is die-cast (molded) from the small size and uniform parting line, the surface is very likely very good, even if the alloy is not. The metal cools at the surface of the mold first, creating a skin. The mold surface, and the surface that is reflected in the finsihed part must be highly polished, or the part won't eject from the mold.

I'm also gusseing that everything that you have accomplished in your life has been the result of hard labor and an exhaustive get 'er done attitude; that you don't like management, including sentence management in the form of delineated paragraphs of text.

Some of us here on CNC zone actually like what we do and are capable of stepping up to any challenge wether it be building our own machines, our own businesses or helping build our company's teams. We believe that competition is healthy and for the most part we are here trying to learn and to help others by teaching them what we've learned.

One thing that I've learned in 35 years of product design and manufacturing is that you have to have an open mind.

I've personally been traveling to China for over 15 years and I've witnessed the slow change over from communist owned factories to factories that are owned by the former employees or outsiders like the US, Japan and Taiwanese (virtually every Chinese government owned factory has failed at this point)

I have never ever seen prisioners as workers, (I've been to about 100 different factories) and as of the last 6 or 8 years, it's the norm to see workers looking to improve themselves by moving to better jobs with better pay and better working conditions. China is now all about capitolism.

Chinese Quality:
Outside factories that set up their plants in China (or sub-contract existing factories) control their quality just like they did before moving there. Companies such as "the Big-Box stores" that buy containers of junk based on price with no idea what of quality is or how to control it, or even police it, are likely on what you base your generaizations about "Chinese Quality"

The Chinese People:
Are just trying to make a better life for their families. They work harder than most (other country's common workers) and are honest, friendly and well educated.

The Chinese Government:
Has it's share of problems, but it too must continue to change to meet the needs of it's people. Even several years ago (before the Oylimpics bias) they were working on environmental issues. They still are. They are not going to stop the influx of money from anywhere to shut down factories - so like any other govennment, the change is slow. Yes they F**K up. jusk ask the Dali Lama, so do we, just ask the Ameican Indians, or many of our soldiers...

The Part:
Take a look at the same part from the same mfg in some other photos

http://www.poncinihobbies.com/product-p/intt8467slvr.htm

http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/HZ/catalog/integy/INTT8467SLVR.html

http://www.killerhobbies.com/items/losi/losi-micro-t-vehicles/integy-micro-t-vehicles-hop-ups/integy-front-castor-block-silver-micro-t-intt8467slvr-detail.htm

One good photo is worth a zilliion bad forum posts...

Try to take it easy. Make a part. Have a beer.
Best regards to all - wherever you are, or are working...

Barry

it's as you said the picture quality is poor , my original reaction was that they used the wrong or a very agressive media for tumbling , after looking at the last set of pictures i definitely believe they over did it on the tumbling on the blue anodized part . in the other sets of pictures the coated parts are much smoother looking , still hard to tell from the pics if they are cast then machined and polished or just machined from solid

Perhaps you are correct.
Perhaps not.
It looks like just a crappy photo with a blue tint

B

Make a part. Have a beer.


Barry

Just as long as you do it in that order...:cheers:

I would do these parts out of a strip of aluminum, do one side and flip them over into some jaws made up with the outside shape and do the other side. I Would do as many as would fit into a 6" vise.

Don't mean to see this thread highjacked again but a quick question for those who know.I understand the injection molding and sand casting (well the way it was done years ago,making pattern and all that).But was wondering how exsactly die cast works and where dos'e investment casting fit in there? We do mostly sand cast parts,(old foundry town and all),hell we have patterns from the teens!

on another note
Make a part. Have a beer.

Barry

Just as long as you do it in that order... :cheers:


Just as long as your done for the day would be better,and yes leaving the shop at 9:00 am still counts as being done :) mmmm didn't some one have a song about it being 5:00 somewhere:wave:

....was wondering how exsactly die cast works and where dos'e investment casting fit in there?....

Die casting is more or less the metal casting equivalent of injection molding. A steel or cast iron mold (die) is used and the molten metal is poured in for gravity die casting, forced in under pressure for pressure die casting and sucked in by a vacuum for vacuum diecasting, of course vacuum diecasting is really a form of pressure die casting.

Investment casting is where you have a wax model of what will be cast. This is dipped in a clay slurry and dried until a coating builds up. Then it is fired to cure the clay and make a ceramic shell, and at the same time the wax melts out. Then the molten metal is poured into the ceramic shell. This is also called lost wax casting.

There is a similar technicure called lost foam casting where the model is made out of styrofoam. This is packed in mold sand and when the molten metal is poured in it burns the styrofoam away.

And I realise it is possible the parts that are the subject of this thread may have been lost foam cast. Sometimes the styrofoam models are made in a cheap mold and that would account for the mold line on the part. Lost foam also gives a sort of dimpled surface from the texture of the styrofoam.

Obviousl I have skimmed over things quickly here but if you take some of the terms and Google you will find more information.

Thanks Geof that answered my question fine,all these years only been in a foundry a hand full of times and that was as costomer.I'll leave the casting up to them and I'll just do the machining :).

No worries on the added question Fuzzy, It was great to see the explanation to your question.

Wow, look what my little thread turned in to. Thanks to most all who replied.


Here is a different manufacturer of the same type of parts that might bring some more solid answers.

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2897

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2896

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2883

These parts range in size, from 10mm and up.



Here's some of their larger scale suff that I would assume is all machined? Or would they cast this stuff too ?

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2641

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2649

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2678

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2713

These parts range from 40mm and up to 100+mm in size.




They charge 144$ USD for this part,

http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2649

What price could something like this be manufactured at?


Thanks again,

djn

How you'd manufacture it, and so how much it would cost, really does depend entirely on how many you want.

one-off: very expensive.
50,000+ off: fairly cheap.

like torcat said

in a vice for the first 2 operations

first op profile like the bottom pic
second op flip the part cut the od protrucion then face and let the parts drop in the vice.
third op use a fixture that you made to hold the part and drill/ream

if you run one part at a time you will never make any money
alot has to do with the size cause if its too small you won't have enough rpm for the machine to do it right and quick enough.

could you make money on this part selling them for 8.99 each? the answer is if you can do them in less than 5 mins per part you will make money, over 5 mins a part and you will lose money. the other thing is if you can sell thousands. if your planning to sell to hobby shops you will need to make the part for less that $3 including material ( providing $8.99 is the retail price.)
if you dont have a buyer for them and hoping to set a website up to sell them forget it not even worth the time and money of equipment invested.

buying a machine on the thought of making these parts not even worth it unless you want a play toy to see what else you can come up with.

is really the key. At 50000 parts I could make fair money if I was able to ship them over a period of a year using conventional cnc machines they cost 4.93 ea.
Over that number, I would have to build a rotary or linear line transfer machine and a production anodizing station. Price examples: 100000pcs = 2.84 ea and at 200000 to 250000pcs about 1.99ea.

I'd use an alum extrusion, chop, broach, and spin swedge to get the basic profile, then minor machining only is needed.

Steve

Definitely not considering doing this myself, the R/C aftermarket industry is already way flooded with new small guys popping up monthly. I was more curious at how the parts were created and what costs were involved in producing the parts. Both questions have been answered and I thank everyone for their input.

I'm really not sure how a lot of these smaller guys are making a living producing these parts,. I know a lot of the mid-larger guys are getting the work done in china, but there are plenty of in house shops doing R/C only in the USA. Many of them are also contracting a local machine shop and keeping their machines very busy, but they must be making a living at very small margins. :)

Thanks,

djn





like torcat said

in a vice for the first 2 operations

first op profile like the bottom pic
second op flip the part cut the od protrucion then face and let the parts drop in the vice.
third op use a fixture that you made to hold the part and drill/ream

if you run one part at a time you will never make any money
alot has to do with the size cause if its too small you won't have enough rpm for the machine to do it right and quick enough.

could you make money on this part selling them for 8.99 each? the answer is if you can do them in less than 5 mins per part you will make money, over 5 mins a part and you will lose money. the other thing is if you can sell thousands. if your planning to sell to hobby shops you will need to make the part for less that $3 including material ( providing $8.99 is the retail price.)
if you dont have a buyer for them and hoping to set a website up to sell them forget it not even worth the time and money of equipment invested.

buying a machine on the thought of making these parts not even worth it unless you want a play toy to see what else you can come up with.

Which part are you referring to here?

This part here that MSRP is 144$?
http://www.ghhobby.com/proddetail.php?prod=2649

djn



is really the key. At 50000 parts I could make fair money if I was able to ship them over a period of a year using conventional cnc machines they cost 4.93 ea.
Over that number, I would have to build a rotary or linear line transfer machine and a production anodizing station. Price examples: 100000pcs = 2.84 ea and at 200000 to 250000pcs about 1.99ea.

I'd use an alum extrusion, chop, broach, and spin swedge to get the basic profile, then minor machining only is needed.

Steve

from my older perspective, (61yrs now)

Corporate management has already given away everything in search of a cheaper way of producing. We have taught the worlds manufacturing centers everything we know. N/C was invented and pioneered here in the 50's and now everyone has the technology.

As a former toolmakers viewpoint.

We here in the USA can do anything (aerospace)

Anyone in the world can now build anything.

We here can still make any complicated thing work as intended.

However GE is making jet engines in Singapore
My Mercedes parts are built the world over.
Anything is built anywhere and everywhere.

Your job may be gone, but there are jobs for competent machinists everywhere.

If it is die cast it is one crappy die, surface finish is horrible so it probably did come from China, I would guess sand cast which is a whole lot cheaper, it would require secondary machining operations but with China using slave labor and prisoners, labor is not a factor. The only problem is if they are made in China they are more than likley garbage and either wont fit or will break after a few uses.
The products coming out of China are pure garbage and they don't care, they know most people will not bother to drive back to a store to return an item that only costs a few dollars so they flood the market with substandard garbage. Any one considering having parts of any kind made in China should reconsider, what good it is getting the parts cheap if they wont work or break after a few uses and don't forget it is a COMMUNIST country. A few years back trade with them would not have been allowed and it should be banned now. I would also ban any American company that moves its manufacturing over there from ever returning to this country. It is greed at the expense of American jobs and anyone that does it should be considered a traitor to this country and given the appropriate sentence that a traitor deserves, hanging by the neck. I Know way off base on this one it is just frustrating as an American manufacturer to see scumbags helping destroy our country to make a few bucks. If I ran this forum anyone helping to ship parts over seas would be banned from posting ,after all this is supposed to be an American site correct?

Hi Joese
I totally agree with you i share your ideas and thoughts only thing is that i am from australia and china is doing the same to us.
pikkipeople

Hello

I am from Saudi Arabia . I am very interested of manufactures and machine but I don’t Know with witches contrary

I like to connect Germany because I was in Germany .

With best wishes

Tanks

Mohammed Bahamim