I wrote this over a 2 week period starting with the delivery of my 1240CNC. Just an FYI for anyone considering one. Enjoy! :wave:




I thought I would share my experience with the purchase of a Smithy 1240CNC through Novakon. It’s basically the Smithy 1240 with Novakon’s control system. The mill was supposed to arrive on a Tuesday. The trucking company called and left a message on my answering machine that the driver could not find my address. When I called them back she said the driver was there but no one answered the door (my roommate and I were here all day) but she couldn't even remember whom the driver was. She asked if I had a forklift to remove the mill as it is curb delivery only. I said no, she said they would have to contact the shipper because the lift truck was more money.

They called back on Thursday saying they had authorization and a time was set for Friday. The truck arrived and the driver unloaded the crates except for the mill itself. It was put in the truck sideways and he was unable to get his pallet jack under it. He said he would have to finish his other deliveries then return to the depot to have the mill turned. While he was gone I opened the crates I had gotten and removed the base stand from its pallet and set it in place. At this time I noticed there was no documentation on how to setup the base, cooling containment or anything. Most of the door latch hardware had fallen off of the base doors so I reinstalled it and adjusted it so all of the doors (4) would actually work properly. I had to run a tap through the threaded holes on top of the base to clean them up as the bolts would not go in. It took the driver 3 hours to return and off load the mill and set it in my garage. I opened the crate and found the mill and lots of metal pans, trays and such with no clue as to where they went. I did find the coolant tray (sits between the base and mill). I test fit the coolant tray to the base and found the holes did not line up. No problem, just file the holes (4 out of 6) to slot them a little. At this point I found out that the engine hoist I had could not lift the mill. It was 2 days before I found one that could. A bit of juggling with the chains and I got it off the pallet and on the floor. I reset the chains to install the mill on the base and when setting in place found that the holes did not line up. The base, coolant tray and mill all had unique bolt patterns.
After getting permission from Novakon I had to drill the holes in the mill to 1" (from 1/2") to get it to fit on the base. Drilling the mill was easy, as the cast iron was rather soft. I hope the table is a bit more durable. At this point I noticed that the entire mill was covered in automotive body filler, sanded, then painted. Even the sheetmetal components had filler on them. I took a close look under the mill as I was lifting it back onto the base and found that the casting was very nasty/rough looking. Since that was merely cosmetic I don't see a problem with it. Once setup you don't see it anyway. Quick note, there were 2 boxes in the base that had tools and steel plates (4 round plates, 2 square) that I figured went under the mill to space it off of the coolant tray. Again, no documentation. As I was supposed to get a coolant pump I am assuming that the second tool kit/plates were installed in the base by mistake instead of my pump.
It took me a day and a half to figure out how to remove the shipping block on the spindle (instructions merely say to remove it, just not how). It’s just a long drawbar that threads into a t-nut in the table. Just undo the nut in the mill head then unscrew from the t-nut and pull up through the top of the mill head. Next was to connect all of the cables to the mill and computer. I wanted to see this thing move! I have never used CAD/CAM software or run a cnc anything before so when it did not work I thought it was my lack of knowledge. I noticed the mach3 kept saying something about an external stop issue. After 3 days of reading manuals, online help forums etc I found the problem. The short parallel cable gender changer (or so I thought) was actually a jumper cable to go from the parallel port of the PC to the add-on card (mill controller) then the cable from the mill actually connected to a different port on the controller card then what I was using. Again, some documentation would have been nice here. It did however give me the opportunity to learn alot about the mill and software. The PC booted and I started the mach3 and the mill moved!!! Success!!!! It took me about 3 hours to draw my first part in Bobcad then about another 2 hours to generate the toolpath and gcode. Now that I am familiar with the software I can redo it in less than an hour. It did take a couple of days to figure out/debug the gcode but the mill moves through the motions just fine. I have not yet received my coolant pump so I spend my days watching the laser pointer I put in place of an end mill trace a printout of the part I created taped to the mill table. I’m also learning how to setup stock in the mill to cut the parts and how to do a tool change. I think I have it all figured out. All in all I think the mill is a good one. There were a lot of annoying little problems but I don’t feel they will detract from the operation of the mill. I still have a few parts leftover that I don’t know where they go. I think they were for the Smithy control equipment. Might be for the coolant system. I’ll figure it out when the pump arrives.

A couple of days later and a few more things to add here. I found that the t-slots in the bed were not machined well. The t-nuts would not fit. I had to use a belt sander on the nuts and a Dremel to fix some imperfections in the slots. I went and bought 9/16ths t-nuts so I wouldn’t have to mess with it anymore. There are a lot of sharp edges on the sheetmetal parts. Seems every time I walked by the mill I got a new scratch. A fine file fixed all of those pesky things. Still no pump. I asked when it would get here, got an offer to put my story in a magazine for a response. I have used the mill for drilling a few parts. The Mach3 was a lot easier to use than I thought it would be. A little practice with feed rates and traversing the table to setup a part was a snap. I think a wireless keyboard might make it easier to run/setup parts. Just worried about keyboard response time. Got tired of waiting for the pump so I went and bought another one. It was 110v and the mill is setup for a 220v pump. It works (with a little wiring magic) but when running a program it’s 50/50 whether the pump starts or not. I’ll install the 220 pump later. Once I had the mill fully operational I annihilated the rebel forces and made some parts. My only experience with machines has been with manual units so a computer controlled one is a bit different. I know exactly what I want to make but can’t figure out how to draw it in the CAD/CAM software. So far I have been making 2D parts and all of them have come out great. The transition to 3D is going to take a while. All in all I think the mill is a good one. With a bit of practice in setting up milling operations and training in CAD/CAM I believe I’ll be making parts with this machine for years to come.

Jim M.

Sounds like the trucker was not real bright- we had a similar situation once and simply tied a strap to one corner of the pallet and pulled it with a pickup until it turned enough to get the pallet jack under it.
As far as all those misaligned holes, soft and rough castings and sheet metal, you would expect that stuff on a 995.00 cheapy mill, but on a " production" model CNC, it sounds pretty disappointing. It sounds like the Smithy model is a hasty catch up to the Tormach design. Somehow the Tormach guys have their machine built at the same factory that builds the high end Smithy Granite series, while Smithy builds their version at the factory that produces their cheapy Midas machines. Tormach must have come up with this design and out flanked Smithy in getting an exclusive at the ISO9001 factory and Smithy is now scrambling to compete with one built at a regular state run place.

Hey Falconman,

How are things going with the mill now?

Hey, I'm curious, do you know if Novakon gets their mill's from Smithy or do they get them directly from the manufacturer in China?

Hope all is starting to balance out. It's no fun dealing with all those surprises. :S

djn

They told me it came from Smithy. The crate looked as though it went straight from China to me though. So far it's done everything I've asked it to. If I setup a part or tool wrong it lets me know. The last hurdle for me is the BobCAD. Once I learn that I'll be ok.

Is the Novakon control superior to the Smithy? Is it made in US? I'm still trying to decide whether to buy or build a system for my machine.

I don't know. I just couldn't find anything on the net about ez-trol except what was on the smithy site. That told me it was a proprietary software and I wanted something more universal as I will be getting a cnc lathe next year. I didn't want to learn 2 different software programs. One will be enough for me. As for where they make it, no clue. My guess would be assembled in Canada. The pc weighs about 4.73 metric tons.:D I had to make a small cart to get it around the shop.

Hillarious!!! I bought the 1240 about 6 months ago and had the exact same problems. That 4x4 for the z axis was a *****! I agree with you 100%. They had no manuals what so ever for unpacking and assembly. And NOTHING fit. I probably had it worse though. After I got the mill set up, the spindle would not come on. 2 weeks later they sent me a new varible frequency drive. After I replaced that I found that they had the foward and reverse backwards. ( I made an electrical diagram and took pictures of the original wiring before swaping them) So that worked for a few days, then the computers breaker started fliping when ever I set the machine to motion. So I could'nt even jog the thing. Anyway the list goes on and on. Finally they sent me a whole new machine! And it had problems too! I also bought the fourth axis for my machine. It was as if they never even tested it! When I pluged in the cable for the fourth axis, it FRIED the fourth axis driver. Smoke and all!!! They wired up the pins wrong. So I was bummed about that. But I still wanted to see the fourth axis work. So I unpluged the y axis. And connected the A axis into the Y axis. Wouldn't even budge!!! There is coupler that connects the motor of the A axis to the rotary tables shaft. The set screws that hold the two ends together were gouging the inside of the shaft housing!!! So I took the fourth axis apart and set the shaft housing on my manual milling machine and bored it out to the correct dimensions. Once that was all done I put everything back together and it worked! For about 2 minuets. I couldn't believe it. The fourth axis started moving in the opposite direction I told it to. And would keep moving after I released the jog button! I had to swap out the driver 3 times. Finally they sent me all new internal cables for it. When i compared the two I found that there were two wires twisted together that were not supposed to be touching at all. Finally I have a nice working machine. But it took 5 months to get to that point! The only complaint that I have is the machine is not cutting as accurately as it should, But it is very close. If you have any questions for me please feel free to ask!

P.S. The very first job I had come up with my Smithy 1240, involved the fourth axis. I was not even familiar with the machine yet. But it turned out nice! since then all I have been making is 3D parts. They are very simple. I'm not familiar with the cadcam software. I use Bobcad. And things seem to work out very nicely with that software. Have you had to make any adjustments to your machine yet, as far as things not cutting out to the exact size you programmed?

Sorry, for multiple postings this is my first time using forums. Jim, I also wanted to tell you that if you are thinking about buying a CNC lathe, you should go on www.youtube.com and type into the search " duality lathe" I think you will find it far more attractive option. Its a simple setup. All you need is a regular bench lathe. Nothing fancy. The lathe cutting tools are mounted to your spindle's neck so that they are stationary. Your X and Z axis take over from there. And It works beautifully!!! It works just like a CNC lathe! I have been able to make very elaborate part with it and highly accurate. The ONLY thing I cannot do with the lathe is threading. I don't have a cable that will synqronize the lathe spindle to the movement of the X axis. All other functions are fully capable! I have also contacted Smithy and they are going to look into making me a cable that will synqronize the lathe with the X axis. So look into that first. I spent about $700 dollars on a bench top lathe, and it works better than you could imagine. And then when you are done with the lathe being on the mill, you have a regular manual lathe! Watch the video on youtube and let me know what you think! I haven't looked at a "real" CNC lathe since.

...I also wanted to tell you that if you are thinking about buying a CNC lathe, you should go on www.youtube.com and type into the search " duality lathe" I think you will find it far more attractive option. Its a simple setup. All you need is a regular bench lathe. Nothing fancy. The lathe cutting tools are mounted to your spindle's neck so that they are stationary. Your X and Z axis take over from there.

That's actually sold by Tormach for use on their PCNC 1100 mill and, as they've implemented it, there's a bit more to the design than simply using a standard bench lathe. It's got pretty impressive performance for the cost.

Mike

The duality lathe is nothing more than a standard lathe. The only thing that Tormach has tied to the machines computer is the spindle speed of the lathe, and the ONLY thing that is good for is the threading operations. Nothing more. I know this because as I have stated before, I use a standard bench lathe on my CNC mill. A plain old bench top lathe! There's nothing more to it than that. I can still perform EVERY type of cut that a regular CNC lathe can, (with my plain old bench lathe) Like I said, the ONLY thing that I cannot do is threading. So, if you have a CNC mill and you want to perform FULLY capable lathe operations (except for threading!!!) then all you need is a standard lathe and a collar that fits around your spindles neck. (the collar is stationary and is what holds your lathe tools. As seen on you tube, if you have a CNC mill you can easily make the collar.) Please do not be fooled! If you can deal with not having CNC threading operations, Then buy a standard bench top lathe for your mill! I bought mine brand new for under $700 dollars and I can make ANYTHING a CNC lathe can! If you have any questions please ask!

Simpler yet, just use a headstock and tailstock from a lathe and scrap the rest. All you need to do is key the 2 parts to the mill slots so they align and 1 guy can easily lift off either part by himself.

Hey Smallblock, that is actually a good Idea too. I'm sure that you would find some limitations to that set up. But there are always limitations. But now that I think of it there are some very good advantages to that as well! Such as the swing. The higher you set the two ends from the table the more swing you gain. And it would be much lghter set up!!!. Awsome idea.

That actually looks pretty cool. Too bad it is too small for my needs. I already have a bench top lathe but I need to spin things that are 10 to 12 inches in diameter. Bench tops are limited to much smaller sizes. Going to a larger or taller headstock and I think you will run out of z axis. I think I'll stick with my plan and get a separate lathe so I can run them at the same time if need be.

Just an idea, obviously it won't work for everybody. But for a quick and cheap way to get CNC quality lathe parts done, it's the way to go. That is one bad part of doing it this way, your CNC mill being tied up for lathe operations. But like I said it's a quick fix. For now it works perfect for me. In about a year I will probably buy a dedicated CNC lathe. Are you going to buy a CNC lathe? Or buy a regular lathe and CNC it yourself?

The local machinery dealer here will sell a new 13x40 lathe with cnc for about $10k. A used cnc lathe sells at auctions for around 3-4k. A manual lathe will go for less than 1k and this site has links to many places to get the steppers and drivers for $300 so I would like to go that route. I would like to learn how to setup a machine for cnc and the best way to learn is to try. I'll at least end up with a manual lathe that I know how to use!:)

I gurantee that you can CNC a lathe yourself! It wll take time to get set up, but it should only take you maybe a weekend worth of time. (I'm including time waiting on parts) I do have to say though the electronics are the cheap part, it's the ballscrews that will kill ya. Ballscrews, from what I have seen are about $2500. What do you put on your lathe that is 10 to 12 inchs in diameter? And what size CNC lathe are you thinking of getting?

Ryan,

I suspect that it would take me a lot longer than a weekend to have a functioning CNC lathe whether it be a mini-lathe on a CNC mill bed a CNC conversion of a manual lathe. That might apply to others as well if they have needs and capabilities similar to mine.

The conversion would take far longer because I'd need to find a good conversion candidate first and then spend way too much time researching hardware options, compatibility, establishing performance targets and making sure that all of the hardware was well matched to the target.

The mini-lathe on a CNC mill bed probably wouldn't take as long for the hardware but would still take me at least a couple weekends because I'd want a keyed mount for the lathe, keyed mount for the QC toolpost, and that spindle synchronizer for metric and imperial threading. Add in the software and it gets worse because I'd want CAM and conversational programming capability. Tormach's Duality lathe has all those features so it is worth it to me to pay $500 over mini-lathe prices to get them.

I can understand where others might not feel the same way, especially if they have a lot more electronic and mechanical engineering expertise than I do.

Mike

Do you own a Tormach? If so I would definately buy the duality lathe. If not though, you don't need any special programing for it. All that I do is place the lathe on the bed and clamp it down, then I move the Y axis back until the lathe cutting bit is about center over my work piece. From there all you have to do is program half the outside profile of the part. All I use is just my regular programming software. Just rember that you draw your part in X and Z only. I can send you a video if you would like. I can show you start to finish how I do it. If you can program a part for your CNC mill you can easily cut something with your lathe on your mill. When I first ordered my lathe I had about a week before it came. So within four hours I had a collar made that goes around the spindles neck. I had an extra tool post and mounted it to that. As soon as my lathe arrived I had it on my mill, and within 6 hours (unpacking, cleanup, setup and programing) I was cutting parts!

Hi Ryan,

Yep, I have a Tormach mill. One of the most attractive things about the Duality Lathe for me is the threading because you get metric and imperial in the same deal. The one thing holding me back on the lathe is spindle power, but I'll probably order one soon anyway.

I have no doubt that you had a lathe working on your mill so quickly but am afraid that you move a lot faster than I do.

Mike

Oh yeah, since you have a tormach there's no reason not to go that route. If I had a tormach I would definetely spend the extra money and get that. Trust me I don't move fast with my machine, I really do baby it. I'm what you would call a nibbler. I run things slow and carefully. Best of luck with the duality lathe, it should hold you off for a while!

To set up a the spindle for threading, all you need is the C3 encoder form CNC4PC and connect it's output to one of your breakout board inputs. Set that pin number up in mach 3 as your spindle rpm input, and set the debounce to get a stable rpm indication. There isn't any magic, all that chord to the tomach does is give an rpm pulse to Mach 3.

Hey dgapilot, thank you for refering me to CNC4PC! I realize how simple it is. It's hard for me to make other people understand this though! To some people it is magic. I have a question for you though. I do not use mach 3. I have emc2, Where would the information from the rpm pulse go to? Also, I don't have any lathe software. Wouldn't a lathe software be the place to send that rpm pulse to? I don't know if that makes sense, this is the magical part.

Ryan,
I haven't used emc2, so I'm not sure where the rpm pulse would go or how you would configure it. As far as lathe software, you could use your mill software but unless there is a mill thread cycle, you would have to program each threading cycle longhand. Otherwise, just use the mill software to move the table (your X axis becomes the lathe Z) and your Z axis to move the tool into the work(Z becomes the lathe X).

You can download Mach3 as a trial and the license is only about $150. The demo doesn't have the thread cycles.

dgapilot, I actually have been using the lathe on my mill. The programing is extreamely simple! (I'm sure you know) The other bad thing is, I don't know if I can load up mach 3 on my milling machines computer? I own a Smithy 1240. (www.smithy.com) tell me what you gather from that.

If it's a Windows XP based system, it should run Mach3 fine. Before you download and install don't forget to backup what you have so if it does crash, you can restore from your backup.

Look over the Mach3 info on http://www.artsoftcontrols.com/

David

The other bad thing is, I don't know if I can load up mach 3 on my milling machines computer?

EMC2 only runs on linux operating systems. If that machine is running EMC2 it has some type of linux installed. It is not possible to install Machanything on that operating system. And, yes, I'm sure.

I've suggested talking to Smithy in another thread. Another (but not necessarily better) option is posting to the emc user mailing list
http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/4/8/lang,en/
There are Smithy employees that subscribe to that list as well as emc developers. EMC2 does lathe but I'm a mill guy so not sure of the features.

Cyclestart, Thank you, I didn't think that it would! I kept thinking about it and mach3 just would not have a place with the Linux setup. Are you saying to up load a lathe version of emc, and then hook up the speed sensor cable to an empty port? (with smithys input on exactly where to put that cable) Keep in mind, the only reason that I would need this speed sensor cable is so I can perform threading operations. I have been using the lathe just fine making all sorts of crazy nice parts. I haven't even needed the threading aspect of it yet. Do you think I should keep moving forward with this?

Are you saying to up load a lathe version of emc, and then hook up the speed sensor cable to an empty port? (with smithys input on exactly where to put that cable)

Sorry Ryan but I can't answer those questions except in a general way. In fact I'm only beginning to setup a lathe spindle on my mill now. This will be dc motor powered and not a true 4th axis with step/direction. Ability to synchronise the spindle for threading is part of the long term plan. Judging by my past performance this may take several weeks or even months ;)

Not sure exactly what Smithy has provided for either software or hardware. For most emc users it's possible to choose various config files at emc start up. Yes, you will need an encoder on the lathe spindle to thread in any useful way other than one-pass threading. For a single pass only, knowing the rpm would be enough but that's a major limitation.

Is anyone else on this forum using EZ-TROL ? Starting to look like maybe not and publicly available information seems non-existent :( Smithy should make it very clear to customers exactly what they are getting involved in control-wise. Hopefully they are doing this.

The people at linuxcnc.org are very helpful and knowledgeable. Some of them have connections to Smithy. Try the mailinglist or even chatting on the user IRC channel.

Jeff

edit/ Ran across this thread while looking for some ideas for my lathe attachment.
This guy is cutting very nice threads without an encoder.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40584&page=13
The brute force single pass approach. With enough power all is possible.

edit2/ Yikes, I didn't read enough of that thread.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=354569&postcount=181

Is anyone else on this forum using EZ-TROL ? Starting to look like maybe not and publicly available information seems non-existent :( Jeff


I don't really have an ez troll myself but my dad who is 80 just got a 6022 with the ez troll system. I am a full time cnc programer mainly Fanuc controls and over the Thanksgiving holiday I went down to help him get it going. I kinda wish we had gone with a windows base program so I could have a demo loaded to help him through issues while on the phone but now that I have used it I learned a few things to help him keep it going. I have experience in dos to windows and I found Linex to be odd? I am mainly concerned with using Ez troll plus Linex and discussing there short comings and finding work arounds not the computer hardware interface. If anyone finds a thread or starts a thread on using Ez troll let me know! They have a few odd things that don't behave like the real world and to top it off I dont have the machine in front of me! As far as customer service goes Smithy has treated him right! There were a few initial problems but they stayed right there with a very ingnorant of cnc's old guy and made sure he was up and running!
Dave