I'm addressing this to other small business owners that have faced the need for financing to expand their business. And having learned the hard way, thought that I'd offer up some warnings.

I need a larger melting furnace and the cost is about $90K. Talked to my bank and was told "shouldn't be a problem, that's not a lot of money". They were happy to lend me 80%. Since I didn't have 18K setting around, especially with the astronomical increases in steel and alloys, I was SOL.

I received several faxes from leasing companies and contacted a couple of them for estimates. Nationwide Business Credit LLC in Irvine CA called several times to follow up and actually offered a package I thought that I could afford with 84 month term. I received the paperwork for the 84 month term via email, signed it and sent a check for $3900 (1st and last months payment + doc fee) via UPS next day letter. Didn't hear a word form them for 2 weeks then they sent a new document for a 60 month term and asked for another $1900. "the 84 month was not available". I responded that I didn't want a 60 month term and that I wasn't proceeding, please send my money back. According to the documents that I signed and they didn't, they are entitled to $895 document fee.

After that I got different local bank to fund the project and proceeded with them. Nationwide is refusing to return my deposit money stating that it was I that screwed the deal by not signing the 60 month deal. To me and everyone I've discussed this with it is a "bait and switch"; attorneys, consultants and the like. I put a deposit on a certian product that they offered and then told me that it wasn't available and I'd have to go with another product from them. Nationwide has offered to send back 15% of the money and hold the balance for funding of some other item if I want, but I have to sign a document to agre to go no further.

I'm in Michigan and the company is in California. A local attorney, who I should have consulted when I first received the documents, thinks that I'm pretty well screwed out of the $. It would cost more in attorney fees to sue them that what I am out.
Mail fraud? Nothing went through the USPS. :mad:
Responding to broadcast faxes: mistake.:mad:
sending money and signing a document that the other party has not yet signed: mistake :mad:
learn from my mistake. I've entered a complaint with the BBB of California Friday and am warning as many as I can about this fraud, theft, deceptive business practices..

Couple of points.
1. You could sue them in small claims court in your state?
2. Call and be nice to them and talk with the "right person" high up to get problem resolved.
3. Not sure why I can't find them in the directory of leasing companies, potential red flag but too late now.
4. If all else fails and you don't get any satisfaction I would still sue them so they don't feel they can get away with ripping people off.
Any legitimate business really doesn't want to get sued and will try to make things right before going to court if they know they did someone wrong.
Good luck

Thanks for your reply

1. The limit for small claims in Michigan is $3000
2. I'll see if I can find the "higher ups". I think that the account executive that I dealt with made a promise that he couldn't keep and now it's a CYA issue with him. My letters have been answered by him alone.
3. I should have gone to my attorney with the documents before signing them.
4. Attorney says that I have to litigate in CA. I'd have more in attorney and travel fees than I could recoup and I think that Nationwide knows that. Probably why they offered 15% refund.

The BBB of CA notified me today that they have forwarded my complaint to Nationwide and to wait 14 day for response.

I have had to cross state lines to persue small clames find the courthouse in the county and call the cleark of the court and ask if the paperwork can be handeld by mail ask what the limits in small clames in CA. they might be higher I would ask your lawyer if the contract is Iron clad or if you have a chance to get your money back Sometimes you get lucky and they won't show up and you win by defult then hang a lein or judjment on any thing they have . I'v heard that the LLC mean's that they are not sueibale for just about anything . A riggger I know refused to work for any LLC because He would be the one on the hook if anything went wrong Good Luck. Kevin


P.S. Don't get mad get even maybe the state AG would like to look into there operation? or even the I.R.S.

Maybe I am mistaken but.... If you got a lawyer, sued them for your $895.00 + attorney, travel fees, etc... Wouldn't you think they would grant that beings they're the wrong doing?

Lots of luck. Every time I have dealt with the BBB I get a return like you got that they have forwarded the complaint to the company and then later I get a reply from them that everything was OK and you are the one responsible for the problem. Here is the kicker - I recently checked with a BBB in California about an oil company registered in the state to see if they were legit and came to find out the BBB head was under indictment for mixing funds. Very inspiring.

From my experience forget getting your money back. This sort of thing happened to me a long time ago and I was in the same town as the company but still never received any money.

As far as going up the ladder to talk to a “boss” you may be already talking to the only person in the “company” or one of the very few.

Take the money you would use to sue and put up a one page web site telling of your experience with this company, give as many names, addresses, phone numbers as possible. This way if someone does a search on the company they may see your experience and pass them bye. Also send the company the link to it, so they will know what you did. They may consider it a bargain to give your money back to have you take the page down.

I have saved a few $$ just by what people posted in the Zone about some people/companies. More people that know the less business these scammers get.

Metalcaster, I do want to thank you for the warning.I too get a couple of those faxes a week and have called a couple of them.I am sorry for your misfortune and will pass your experience along as well.

:banana:Well God continues to favor me. I posted an online complaint with BBB and low and behold the company mailed a check for the entire amount. Their response was not accurate, but sent the check to "ensure customer satisfaction". Deposited it today and am awaiting clearing prior to closing the BBB complaint file. But it seems to have worked.

go to your bank and put a hold on the check. tell the bank your story and show them the contract for 84 months. If you have that then the bank will back you. way to go on calling the BBB.

I had a complaint with several so. cal companies, and once i called the BBB i recieved a welcoming call from the companies offering things to make it correct.

sorry to hear that you are out of cash, especially in todays crisis. lots of banks are getting hit.

This kind of thing happens far to often. What nationwide did was try to give you a payment option that was pretty close to the one that your bank offered you. They priced the deal and sent you a proposal that you signed outlining an 84 month term. They took the deal to their underwriter/bank and the bank said yes to you the lessee, yes to the equipment, but no to the term. An 84 month term is hard to come by with most leasing banks becuase 7 years is a long time to have money on the street. Statistically the longer the money is out the less chance they have of getting paid back. The underwriter/bank approved the deal at a 60 month term. You were told that you didn't qualify and they wanted to keep your money.

This is the kind of thing that gives leasing companies a bad name. If they cannot get you the deal that you wanted they should automatically give the money back. Not all are bad.

In CA they have the home field rule. If you want to sue you have to go to thier local court to do it. The BBB is a good place to start before you begin working with a company. Check Time in Business and their rating. Another thing that you can do is have them send you their Dun & Bradstreet report as well as yours. If yours is better than theirs you probably shouldnt work with them.