Here is the link for the free router plans http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&file=viewcategory&cid=2 please discuss the plans here in this thread.

Very nice looking machine and detailed plan!
/Niels

It's fixed.

Those are very cool plans, jgro, You have made a major contribution to the CNC hobbiest world. Thanks for taking the time to draw up these plans.

5 Stars to you.

NOTE: To all those who download the plans. If you right click on the link and select "save target as" you will be able to save the plans instead of just opening them in your browser. I might suggest that the PDF be zipped so that it will automatically save instead of opening in a browser window.

Thanks.

Im back again. I just wanted to say I just printed off those plans, and am EXTREMELY impressed with the work that you did.

I laugh to myself about all the noise that happened in the open source forum, while the quiet achiever typed away and actually produced something.

Thats a "TOUCHDOWN" jgro

Thank you :)

Thanks,just want to ask how much is it going to cost me in the end?:)

I went through a few iterations before I came up with what's in the plans. I estimated that it cost me about $400.00. That included a Xylotex controller and stepper motors that I bought from Ebay. I had a computer, monitor and router lying around. Maybe CNC Darren can give a better cost as he just built one from my plans http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6168

jgro

jgro

Thanks :)

what motors and driveres? do you recommend to use?

Hi CNC Wana Bee, I just threw some numbers together and came up with around $300+ misc hardware and router. I went with the Hobby CNC 3 axis unipolar chopper drive and thier 80/oz motors, you have to solder the parts on the board but i didnt find it to hard to do. For a ready to run board it seems most people go with the Xylotex board. Jgro here is a pic of mine, the extended version. :) My brother got a sign job and we had to make the table a bit longer using 60" gas pipe. The bolts going thru the side frames push in on the gas pipe as I found that the gas pipe would flex out as it got close to the center of travel. here are a couple of pics and a completed sign minus the vinyl letters. I'm trying to work in a dust collector project while running these signs to hold the dust down a bit.

Darren :cheers:

Thanks dude.
dose it make too much dust?
and can you post a pic of the bolts that you used?
thanks again,alex.
p.s
that is a sweet machine you have there;)

Nice sign. Looks classy.
Randy

Link says I can't have access to that page?

the dust isnt to bad on small parts but on the large oval there is quite a bit. I dont think it would be as bad if I were cutting ply or something like that but MDF is a very fine dust and goes everywhere. I'll get some pics of the bolts next time i'm over there.

Darren

Ok Thanks dude i just need to Think of some think to have no dust at all.
im a dead man i my wifes see's dust.

some people build an enclosure around the machine to contain the dust inside of it and I think it would quiet it down a little. That way all you would need to do is clean out the enclosure. I have thought about doing that but ints in a wood working shop right now and the dust isnt a problem.

Darren

I was thinking about buliding a plastic cage around the machine.
what do you think about it?
will it work?

very cool plans . does anyone have a ballpark figure on cost to produce this machine.
I am on a shoe string budget
thanks Bruce

Wow nice plans. I think I'm going to try to duplicate it myself.

Hey! Very well done plans! It's weird.. While wracking my brain trying to figure out how to make cheap, effective slides, I stumbled (by accident) on attaching roller skate bearings to pieces of angle irons, and running them along steel shafting, or better yet, 1/2" metal conduit tucked inside 3/4" PVC pipe, all being supported on bottom by that steel "T" bar,(looks like steel fence posts) on the bed of the mill, or router.

After downloading your plans, lo and behold! There's "my" idea - I swear I had never seen it before yesterday!! Isn't that weird? But man, It works!! Very cool.. Thank you for your hard work and dedication for making the plans!!

(here, I'll put in a cheers smiley for ya! :cheers: )
-Jeff Thorsgaard

Excellent.
Thanks for your contirbution.
John

I get an eeror when I click on the link.


Error Flood Check If you followed a valid link, please notify the webmaster

Sorry, my email address was disabled. I've enabled it now.
John

:rolleyes:
Tried to open the .pdf file but got an error message. Any ideas? :)

Just tried it opened up no problem. Make sure you reader is up-to-date.

Hello,

Went to Adobe's web site and downloaded and installed every update I could. Still won't open for me. Any possibility you could e-mail these plans to me? Would really appreciate it.

danshirl@aol.com

I right clicked the link and did a "Save target as" ....Got it..

Thanks :cheers:

Ygm.................................................

Question about the use of gas pipe as bearing rails.

Should a person have then turned on a lathe to smooth them out or will plain sanding do the trick?

I would think that just sanding it with emory paper would be enough.

Have a question, I am a cabinet maker making this machine and am looking for all new electronics for a good price. Now the thing is I have enlarged this to a cutting area of about 36"x60" and will not be using this for cabinets but to cut foam and 1/4 ply wood. So around what 0z. steppers motors ,ECT. do I need. Any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks in advance. Jason

I have an enlarged version also at 16X36 mostly cutting 1/2" MDF and I am running 116 in/oz motors and they seem to work fine using 3/8-16 threaded rod. I had 80oz/in motors and they worked ok too but never went back to them. Watch the whipping of the lead screw mine at 36" gets kinda scary at anything above 70 ipm when joging.

Darren

16x36" ?? Is that not the close to the size in the plans? Where is a good place to buy these steppers and electronics? Thanks

Pretty much the same size but just extended 12".
I'm using the HobbyCNC 3axis chopper driver board.
The 80 oz motors came from HobbyCNC
the 116 oz/in motors came out of a Sharp Copier, the older copiers used them to feed pages on the document feeder on top of the copier there are 2 in each copier. So far i have managed to get 8 of them. My brother works for a Office machine supply company so he lets me know when they get some junckers in off of lease and we go in and strip them. I have several 38v 15amp that came from copiers that work great for cnc also.
Darren

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the Plans!!

First post, I'm a friend of Ashers helping him out trying to get this thing together. I,ve been looking at a bunch of different programs and motors to use, and i want some opinions.

Im looking at the 640 oz steppers from homeshopcnc, and was wondering what controller i would need to use on them.

Also any thoughts about deskcnc and deskam?

Were planning on using 1/2 inch acme leadscrews(they will fit in the chuck of my lathe) should we go bigger for the long 60" run? or use dual nuts spread out on the gantry to smooth and quiet things down. Any idea of thread pitch to use with the 640 oz steppers? were looking for 120 or so IPM jog rate.

Ive also been pondering on using timing belts and pulleys between the steppers and screws, is a coarse thread acrew with a geared down stepper better for faster jog and cutting rates, at the expense of a bit of prescision? this way i could also play with gear ratios...

The machine will mostly be used to cut stacks of 1/4 inch foam....

Sorry for so many questions, Ive been reading into the late nights on cnczone for a few weeks now, Some of it is starting to make sense.
Thanks for ANY input..

Dylan

Not too much activity here...

Turns out Enco only has 1/2" acme in a 10 TPI, would this work?

Im pretty sure the Gecko drives will work with the 640oz motors, any thoughts?

Dylan

I was also thinking about useing 1/2 -10 acme all thread rods and building a teflon nut for the mooving parts. what do you think about this idea?

Dylwad, geckos are OK for any stepper below 80V and 7A. Just remember to heatsink them for currents over 3A.

/Fer

Not too much activity here...

Turns out Enco only has 1/2" acme in a 10 TPI, would this work?

Im pretty sure the Gecko drives will work with the 640oz motors, any thoughts?

Dylan

MSC has 1/2-10 2 start and 5 start (5 tpi and 2 tpi - turns per inch), and also 1/2-8 2 start (4 tpi). Probably some other sizes, too.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/

Page 3856 at the bottom.

having a lower turn-per inch on your lead screw kills the resolution of the system. If you're going to use Acme screws, look for 10 TPI 1 start or 20 TPI 2 start to get 10 turns per inch. Either way, the average 1.8 degrees per step motor will give you 2000 steps per inch, or 0.0005 inch resolution. Using a 10 TPI 5-start screws would give you 400 steps per inch, or 0.0025 inch resolution. Yes it would move faster, but it would also load the motors a lot more.

having a lower turn-per inch on your lead screw kills the resolution of the system. If you're going to use Acme screws, look for 10 TPI 1 start or 20 TPI 2 start to get 10 turns per inch. Either way, the average 1.8 degrees per step motor will give you 2000 steps per inch, or 0.0005 inch resolution. Using a 10 TPI 5-start screws would give you 400 steps per inch, or 0.0025 inch resolution. Yes it would move faster, but it would also load the motors a lot more.

No one building a homemade wood router needs .0005 resolution. You'll be lucky to get .001 accuracy. Consider that .0025 is less than 1/12 of 1/32.
6 Steps to make up 1/64. That is more than enough accuracy for 99% of the people here. You could always gear down a little bit to get closer to .001. Wood changes from humidity can be much more than that from 1 day to the next.

Also consider that decent quality acme screws are only accurate to plus or minus .009/ft. So in 2 feet of travel you could be off by as much as .018, and there's not much you can do about it.

Find the thread by Inventit about his router. He used 1/2-10 5 start with 400 oz motors, and I think got over 300ipm.

The 1/2-8 2 start or the 1/2-10 2 start are good starting points, as long as you have enough torque. They probably won't work well with the 150oz motors a lot of people here use, but they should work great with your 640 oz motors. I'd get the 1/2-8, as it's cheaper and you should have plenty of power for it.

One more thing is that multiple start acme screws can be up to 50% more efficient than single start screws. So if you have big enough motors, you'll waste a lot less torque spinning the screws. And higher lead screws will spin slower, so whipping will be less of a problem. I've read a few posts from people using 1/2-10 who's speed is limited by the screws whipping at higher rpm's. Don't underestimate the importance of speed. You WILL want to go faster. :)

The 1/2-8 2 start from MSC is $26 for 6 feet, not too bad. I could play with gearing on the motors if i find i need more resolution/torque, which is the nice thing about using timing belts and pulleys instead of direct drive steppers.

So lets say.....

30x60x6? or so cutting area, 1/2-8 2 start leadscrews, 640 oz steppers geared 1.3:1 using gecko drivers, nice big PC 1/2inch router, and deskam/deskcnc running the show, or at least try it out before we buy it, ive been playing with it and i kind of like it, but i have nothig to base my opinion on. Any thoughts on software for newbies?

motors-$115 x 3
Geckos-$115 x 3
Deskam/cnc+hardware $350

Around $1000 for the 'spensive stuff, i figure $300-$600 for the rest, still not too bad for a larger CNC router with some speed and power. ALOT cheaper than some of the quotes my friend got on the Phone....

Thanks for the help guys..

Dylan

The 1/2-8 2 start from MSC is $26 for 6 feet, not too bad. I could play with gearing on the motors if i find i need more resolution/torque, which is the nice thing about using timing belts and pulleys instead of direct drive steppers.

So lets say.....

30x60x6? or so cutting area, 1/2-8 2 start leadscrews, 640 oz steppers geared 1.3:1 using gecko drivers, nice big PC 1/2inch router, and deskam/deskcnc running the show, or at least try it out before we buy it, ive been playing with it and i kind of like it, but i have nothig to base my opinion on. Any thoughts on software for newbies?

motors-$115 x 3
Geckos-$115 x 3
Deskam/cnc+hardware $350

Around $1000 for the 'spensive stuff, i figure $300-$600 for the rest, still not too bad for a larger CNC router with some speed and power. ALOT cheaper than some of the quotes my friend got on the Phone....

Thanks for the help guys..

Dylan

If your cutting wood, you won't need more resolution than the .00125 you'll get from those screws. Adding pulleys and belts justs adds complexity and cost you don't really need. And because steppers lose torque as they go faster, trying to gear for more torque may not actually give you any more torque.

May be I miss it can anyone tell me what motors are used and what type of router motor is used with these plans.

uh oh. I'm building this, but down-sized it a bit due to the leadscrews I do have! <grins>

I've got 150 oz-in steppers, a cheapo driver, 5/8" 10 tpi single start leadscrews - have to connect them to a .25" shaft somehow.. I'm trying for better resolution, AND better torque than what I'm used to with the old router..(A "Morph" from **********)(which has 80 oz motors, full steps 18 tpi 5/16" allthread, with homemade delrin nuts with no allowances for backlash whatsoever!) It's as loose as a goose!
..wish I could afford some triple stack nema 34's or whatever?

I just bought a Sherline 5400, so between this home built router and the Sherline I should start learning some of this stuff!

These plans are very good but they are in inches. Can you post a pdf version with all measurements in cm? It would greatly help us all in Europe.

Best regards
George
Athens, Greece

You could volunteer to do it, if you're really interested. 1 inch = 25.4 mm

I do not understand their love to inches either. Especially what they are using to measure torque: lb/in or oz/in or something like that. Nevertheless this has not stopped me to copy their constructions. Imagine if they can make such a wonderful constructions in inches what they could do if they knew metric measurements.

Best Wishes
Alar

We'll I ordered meshcam/mach2, controller and motors from xylotek. And I have a will call pick up for 3/4 " baltic berch plywood on the way home.

I figure its a start.

I just joined the group and the thread. very interesting plans. How hard would it be to add the forth axis (A) to the table. Also is it possable to get a CAD file of the drawings.

Dave

here you go- http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&file=viewfile&id=24

JGRO, Awesome plans :) Extremely detailed.

I'm not sure if you're still maintaining them, but I noticed what might be a few small mistakes. Some of the pages have an empty quantity block(the number can be found in the parts list anyway). But also, for parts CNC_dtl01 and CNC_dtl02 I believe the stock size is listed at something like 1.5x8.25x16.25, when, unless i'm mistaken, should be listed at 1.5x8.25x32.5. Those numbers are just off the top of my head, but you get the idea.

Hey guys,

Were coming along on the router, got the ends of the 1/2-8 2 start acme turned down and drilled/tapped, and made a tap out of it for 6 delrin blocks, very smooth. We will post some pics soon.

Anyone want to help me out with some math?
Also, when you figure out your resolution, do you go off of 200 steps per rev, or 2000 when your microstepping?

heres the math...
1/2-8 2 start- 4 turns per inch
40,000 steps per second
8000 steps per inch

What RPM will i get at 40k SPS? I came up with 1200
How many IPM am i looking at? 300?

From what ive read 1/2 leadscrews start singing around 450-500 RPM so im thinking 100IPM shouldnt be a problem on this rig.

Am i totally off on my math? anyone have some formulas to use to make life easier?

Thanks,

Dylan

one more thing, is there any way to be able to see more than 5 posts per page on the forum? its kind of annoying when im used to 50 or so per page on ezone.

one more thing, is there any way to be able to see more than 5 posts per page on the forum? its kind of annoying when im used to 50 or so per page on ezone.


You can change the default thread view in the usercp.

Anyone want to help me out with some math?
Also, when you figure out your resolution, do you go off of 200 steps per rev, or 2000 when your microstepping?

heres the math...
1/2-8 2 start- 4 turns per inch
40,000 steps per second
8000 steps per inch

From what ive read 1/2 leadscrews start singing around 450-500 RPM so im thinking 100IPM shouldnt be a problem on this rig.



If your using geckos with 10x microstepping, then you'll have 4 tpi x 200 steps/rev x 10 (microsteps) = 8000 steps/inch, like you said.

40000 steps/second * 60 seconds / 8000 steps/inch = 300 ipm, @ 1200 rpm.

Leadscrew whip is dependant on length, and how it's mounted.

The speed of the machine can be limited by many factors. Motor torque, voltage supplied, friction. Because stpper torque can drop off quickly, especially at lower voltages, you may not have enough torque to get to your theoretical 40,000 steps/s.

Depending on the torque of the motors, you might get 100ipm rapids, but may not have enough torque at that speed to cut materials.

What size motors (ratings) , power supply and what drivers are you using?

Wow, Great reply,

The motors are 640 oz 2.3 volt 5.5 amp nema 34 www.homeshopcnc.com The leadscrew nuts are 1.5 inch delrin, doubled up on each axis. one of the leads is 6 feet long too....hopefully the 3 inches of nuts and some tension will help to smooth things out.

Power supply im looking at 48 volt 12 amp units, but we may build our own, so about 20 times motor voltage.

The leadscrews have dual bearings on each end, and will have a bit of tension to them.

Were not planning on cutting anything anywhere near 100IPM, but it would be nice to have some decent rapid speed.

I just realized the deskcnc controller has a 125000SPS max......http://www.deskcnc.com/controller2nd.html

So, one more time, this is the rundown

cutting area around 5'x3'x5"

640 oz steppers
z axis geared 1.5:1 or 2:1
1/2-8-2 start leads
gecko 201's
48 volt 12 amp supply
deskcnc software and controller
full size PC router

Mainly cutting 1/4"~1.5 inch foam.

gas pipe rails on x and y ,X is supported in the middle, and THK style on the Z
pipe adjustment blocks are 3/4" aluminum tapped for adjusters.

sound like it will work?

Thanks,

Dylan

Were not planning on cutting anything anywhere near 100IPM, but it would be nice to have some decent rapid speed.



I bet you'll want to after you use it for awhile. :) I wouldn't think you'd have a problem cutting foam at that speed, as there would be basically no load on the spindle.

Sounds like it should work OK, but the power supply might be a bit marginal on the current rating. Might be OK, though.

This foam kind of turns to goo if you try too fast of a cutting speed.

about the power supply, i read the geckos wont give more than 67% of the current you select with the current set resistor, so i was thinking 12 amps could cut it. We havent found a power supply yet so were still open to options. Should we do the 16.5 amp + supply?

What about using a variac bridge rectifier and cap as a power supply? dial the voltage and be done with it.

Dylan

If the foam is melting, it's because you're going too slow, not too fast. Or you need a different type of cutter. With the right router bit, you can cut foam at 1000 ipm or more. Melting foam or plastics, or burning wood, is from too slow feedrates and/ or too fast spindle speed.

As for the power supply, it will probably be fine. Doing the math it comes out to around 11a needed. Most likely you'll need less.

I am just now getting into CNC cutters. I have a lot of CAD programs available, as my dad is an engineer. I was wondering if this would be a good starting project? I will mainly use it to engrave tags, and make foam airplanes. It seemed like a good choice as it would be fairly cheap. I have a Wizard which is very similar, and about the same size as a drimle (spelling?). All opinions would be helpful. By the way what is the total cutting area?
Thanks,
Brian

My build is coming along. The linear bearing calls for 0.344 holes for the 5/16 through bolt I measure at 0.301 diameter. Should the dimension be tighter? Is the slop intentional to allow for some misalignment? Thanks

BrMiHi08: The cutting area is about 30" x 15" x 6". A dremel tool would work, but you can only use 1/8" diameter cutters.

carlnpa: I usually made my holes larger to allow for inaccuracies/adjustment. If you made your holes to size and your holes are off by .010, it probably won't work. Here is how I assembled the linear bearings:

For assembly #8, clamp a piece of wood to the side of the angle parallel to the bearing that you want to assemble. Stick a bolt through the hole and put a spacer on the other side. Put the bearing on next. Screw on another nut to hold the bearing on. Don’t tighten the bolt yet. Put a Vise Grip C-clamp on as shown in the image below to preload the bearing and tighten up the nut making sure that the bearing does not pull away from the piece of wood. Tighten up the bolt.

really nice plans...
Actually I don't have a lot of experience in building DIY routers so this might be a stupid question. I would like to use this route also for PCB (printed-circuit-board) milling and I was wondering whether two leadscrews for the x-axis (somewhere near to the bearing on the left and right side) would improve the stiffness and accuracy?
If two leadscrews would improve the stiffness what would make more sense, to use two stepper motors (one for each leadscrew) or just one stepper motor with timing belt?

I m in the process of building this, but I gotta tell you.. You'd better be ded-on on the drilling of the angle bering's holes! Mine got off by a hair and really screwed things up! Thre's a link to a guy in the NL who makes a similar bearing plate.. http://www.zoltar.nl/

Seems like a pretty viable alternative to trying to get angle bars/wood/slots/bolts/etc. trued up..

sorry.. the actual link is http://www.rcmodels.net/cnc/system3/index.html

jgro,

Just wanted to thank you for the plans. I am in the process of building your machine and all is coming together nicely.

Steve

What are the tolerances/accuracy that are being achieved with this design?

Thanks,

I have machine with similar construction. If x-axis is in the one end and you are moving working head in the direction Y-axis, the sledge is not rigid enough. It bends somewhere anyway and the tolerance will go down appr. 1 mm or so. If you are cutting only thin chips or engraving the effect will disappear. So the tolerance depends of how sharp is your cutter, what is the position of x-axis, how much are you cutting and so on. I process wood and can say that tolerance is enough for intarsia. If anybody have an idea how to avoid the problem please speak.

Question about the pipes.. Lowes sells 2 types.. black pipe, and silver pipe.. silver is more expensive, but APPEARS to have a better finish.. anybosy used these pies? Are these what I am looking for? Is one better than the other? I am wanting to start purchasing parts to buld as I can afford them, but can't afford to buy parts more than once.. HAHAHA

thanks. Eddie

Also.. someone suggested a different type of screw fo MDF.. I thought it was something like comformat, or something, but not sure.. it is the type of screw that they use in pre-cut furniture that you have to assemble, i think.. anybody know what kind of screw this is?
Does it really work better?

The black pippe is fine. The "silver" pipe(its called galvinized) just has a zink coating on it and would be of no advantage. The pipe I bought was awfull and I will replace it with drill rod or shafting one of these days. It has pits lumos and dings all over it. Machine still workd remarkabky well.

Garry

I found this in another thread:

xairflyer, When screwing MDF together I think the best fastener is a confirmat screw. Here is a link that shows how one guy uses then in cabinet work.
http://www.norrod.com/shop/screws/
You don't need that fancy drill bit, but you need a clearance hole (8mm) for the the shoulder and a pilot hole (5mm) for the threads.
This eliminates the tiring tappping of MDF and holds fantastic.

http://www.wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/GroupID/Fasteners%20%26%20Screws/CatID/Confirmat%20Screw%20System/showprod/1

I used the "silver" pipe, it feels much smoother than the black gas pipe. I used plywood instead of mdf with 1-3/8 deck type screws, these hold really well and are fast. Noted another post that these deck screws also work well with mdf.

Yep, the deck screws work very well indeed. They will split the MDF if not predrilled and countersunk so be careful.
I like the little plastic caps thatconfirmat screws have though.
colin

Okay.. know this is a stupid question, BUT...

regarding the Confirmat screws... you are using these to replace the #10 machine screws in the plans, correct?

also.. which screw size should i buy? -

Small 4x5x8x40mm
or
Large 4x7x10x50mm


Eddie

Still curious about the confirmat screws.. anybody know which size matches up with the screws needed for this plan, and which screw do they replace?

Thanks,

Eddie

I haven't seen the plans, but use them to replace any screws joining a flat to an edge. Either size would be fine, but you have to use the special drill bit, or they won't work properly. Another source is here: http://www.mcfeelys.com/subcat.asp?subcat=20.1.1.1

the plans are posted as the first message in this thread.

The reason I am asking about the size is because I am uncertain as to exactly which screws they are recommending replacing with CONFIRMAT.. it is either the 10mm screws, or else the 1/4 inch screws, and I don't know which length of screw they are recommending replacing as well.

I have no background with reading blueprints and/or design plans, so i am still learning as I go.

Thanks for the help though. It is greatly appreciated!

Eddie
:)

ESMILLER,

I have just completed most of the wood working for the JGRO special. I got to tell you that drilling and tapping all thoses holes is a real pain. I have been tempted on many occasions to just drill pilot holes and use course drywall screws. (Cheaper and easier).

I haven't added up all my recipts yet but figure I have about $30 worth of bolts and washers in it. However, now that it's all done, Im glad I used the bolts instead of screws as the machine has be taken apart many times for adjustment, modification and painting and the bolts make re-alignment much easier that screws.

A word of advise is to not drill the mounting holes for the pipe adjustment blocks or steppers until you have the blocks made and the steppers purchase. Use them as a templete to drill the mounting holes LAST.

Good luck with your build.

Steve

ESMILLER,

I have just completed most of the wood working for the JGRO special. I got to tell you that drilling and tapping all thoses holes is a real pain. I have been tempted on many occasions to just drill pilot holes and use course drywall screws. (Cheaper and easier).

I haven't added up all my recipts yet but figure I have about $30 worth of bolts and washers in it. However, now that it's all done, Im glad I used the bolts instead of screws as the machine has be taken apart many times for adjustment, modification and painting and the bolts make re-alignment much easier that screws.

A word of advise is to not drill the mounting holes for the pipe adjustment blocks or steppers until you have the blocks made and the steppers purchase. Use them as a templete to drill the mounting holes LAST.

Good luck with your build.

Steve

Thanks for the advice... guess what I am curious about is the places where you use the bolts to screw INTO an edge piece.. how did you tap them so they would hold good? on the adjustment blocks, it goes clean through with a nut on the back.. no problem, but that is not true for the edge pieces.. worried about stripping them out.

Eddie

ESMILLER,

I note your concern using a tap to hold bolts on the edge of MDF. It was a big issue with me at first to but just did it and it's working out. Just don't tighten the bolts down really tight. Once you have everything lined up you can use some CA (super glue) or wood glue in the holes and wood edges for a final fit if you want. I did use blind nuts in a couple of locations but not at the edges. See photo of my machine for example of blind nuts.

Just use your best judgement and secure as needed. Drywall screws will work but pre-drill before attempting.

Steve

Oh, one more thing!

When tapping the hole use a small drill or cordless screwdriver with low power and take your time so you don't strip the holes.

ESMILLER,

I note your concern using a tap to hold bolts on the edge of MDF. It was a big issue with me at first to but just did it and it's working out. Just don't tighten the bolts down really tight. Once you have everything lined up you can use some CA (super glue) or wood glue in the holes and wood edges for a final fit if you want. I did use blind nuts in a couple of locations but not at the edges. See photo of my machine for example of blind nuts.

Just use your best judgement and secure as needed. Drywall screws will work but pre-drill before attempting.

Steve

Okay, thanks for the advice.. guess as soon as I buy my new shop vac tonight, i will get back to work cutting the MDF for this.. my old one burnt out due to no filter to contain the fine dust the MDF created.. old vaccuum, so now i have an excuse to buy a newer, quieter one .. LOL

BTW.. do you notice any flex in your system? concerned about flex at the center of travel on the longest axis...

Eddie

Do you mean flex in the MDF, I so No. The base and cutting support grid as jgro's plans show eliminate this.

Steve

Do you mean flex in the MDF, I so No. The base and cutting support grid as jgro's plans show eliminate this.

Steve

Not sure.. thought i saw something on his website saying he had had flex in it before he built it smaller.. maybe I misunderstood it ...

Eddie

JGRO (and anybody else who has comments)

That's a very cool setup. I'm looking at building a CNC router that I can use to cut out various shapes made from a wood like maple, say up to 2" thick. The shapes are irregular curved forms....drawn in AutoCAD. My maximum size would be about 14" x 24"..maybe a little longer. Given the material (maple, fairly hard) and thickness, do you think a machine like yours would perform the job well? Seems to me it would, taking reasonable cut depth per pass of course. Again, great build! I think I'm hooked on this site........

I'm building the router from your free plans. I made mine 10" wider, but other than that I'm following the plans pretty close. can't find the shoulder bushings so I am going to improvise. I currently have the base and the gantry done. I's looking pretty good. Kraig

cwoodall,

It should perform well cutting hard wood. I only cut MDF with mine, but if you start with a smaller depth of cut and work deeper as you get more experience with it. I was cutting MDF at .125/pass with a 1/4" endmill no problem at 30 ipm.

Kraig1,

Keep us posted on your progress :)

jgro

Jgro and others who've built from these plans:

Could someone post a run-down of the process used to adjust the machine? Kind of a sequence of events that seems to work well to get the rails, etc dialed in. I'm finished with the base and gantry thus far (there's a thread in the build log) and did a little playing around with the gantry and the 1" pipes. As soon as I get a straight piece to replace the bowed one I have, I'll be set!

Thanks Much!

Take a 4 blocks of wood that are cut to the same height and place these under the rails. Use a large carpenter square and set one of the rails square to the base. Next cut 2 pieces of wood that can be used as spacers to place between the two rails to keep them parallel. Check with your square to make sure that the second rail is square to the base when you are done. That should get your rails close. You may need to adjust one of them later to get them to mate up with the bearings on the gantry. To set the gantry, this is what I did. There are 4 drilled and tapped holes in the bottom piece of the gantry shown on the drawings. These are for jack screws. Set the bearings up as I showed in post #66 of this thread. That is your starting point. Next set the gantry into position as close as you can, adjust one of the rails if needed and screw some bolts into the jack screw holes. Screw the jack screws down until they just touch the base. Loosen all of the bearing bolts. Measure from side to side to make sure the gantry is set into the center of the machine. Next place a level or something that you know to be straight and stiff across the pipes behind the gantry and measure from the level to the bottom of the gantry. Adjust the jack screws until both sides read the same. Do the same thing for the front of the gantry. Once all the measurements are the same, take 2 wood screws and screw the gantry down tight to the base. Now you can tighten the bearing bolts. I used a Vise Grip C-clamp to clamp the bearings tight to the pipe and preload the bearings. I hope this all makes sense.

jgro

My wealest area is in the electronics area, but I have the basic gist of it. I looked at the HobbyCNC 3-axis unipolar driver and the Xylotex 4-axis unipolar driver. I'm building a 3-axis machine for now. Two questions....can I go with the Xylotex driver to enable future expansion, and someone straighten me out on unipolar and bipolar drivers. Thanks.

Curtis

Yes, you can go with the 4 axis driver, and only use one axis,,,, Although I would pull the jumper that is on the board to disable the unused axis, My take on unipolar and bipolar is that in a unipolar system, the coils in the motor are switched on and off,,,, whereas the bipolar system switches the polarity of the current back and forth,,,,

Hi:
I don't mean to hijack the thread I just have a quick question for jgro.
Dtl 23 & 24 the anti-whip block and spacer, from what I understand the block mounts with the "rod trough" facing up and the spacer is under the block, if this is the case how come you made the block and spacer in two pieces? if this is not the case could you help me understand how to mount these pieces.

Great plans by the way
fantastic job.
Jim

jgro,

Thanks for the tips on dialing in the router. I was on the right track, but sort of backwards, if that makes any sense at all. Boy am I glad I put those jack screw holes in the gantry base! They could have easily become a corner I cut :nono:, but that little voice in my head told me they're for a reason...

Thanks again, more progress tomorrow, I hope...

jmc,

I believe I made them in 2 pieces because I had a piece of leftover delrin from making the anti-backlash nut and it wasn't tall enough. So I added another piece underneath it.

jgro

JRGO --

Question.. on your website you mentioned some flex in your router.. was that in this version, or an older version..?

Eddie

BTW.. GREAT plans!

Got most of the wood cut, and waiting on funds to afford the pipes to start assembling the initial stages... Also helping me to get practice with cutting and using power tools.. been YEARS since i have done anything useful in the shop, so I am grateful for the practice *GRIN*

Eddie

One last question.. atleast for tonight *GRIN* .. Where did you get 1.25" angle aluminum? I can find 1" and 1.5" but not 1.25" .. and I don't know how I would have to change to mounts to accomodate 1.5" angle aluminum..

Eddie

esmiller,
I got my 1.25 angle aluminum from Lowes.

jgro,
the anti-whip block that jmc was refering to has also baffled me. since I didn't understand the drawing I skipped this step and did not put one on mine. Is it a needed item or just a precaution? I don't have the motors mounted yet so I took a cordless drill and ran the Y screw axis with it on high speed and haven't noted any whipping of the leadscrew.

Also, Is the spindle mounting in your plans for a Dremel multipro brand tool or other? Could you give us some photos to show correct placement for all of the micro switches. THANK YOU!

This thing is growing! Thanks again for the plans jgro, you are the man!!!

Steve

esmiller,

My first design had a lot of flex. I first tried using 3/4" black pipe. It didn't work. That's when I went to 1 1/2" pipe. I bought my 1 1/4 aluminum angle from here: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1019&step=4&showunits=inches

stevec,

The router mount in the plans was for a RotoZip. I don't have one for the Dremel. As for the limit switches, I kind of winged it when I did those and don't have any images showing where I put them before I dismantled my machine. Sorry. BTW, looking good!

jgro

Newbe here very nice plans and detaild

jgro,
When I downloaded the plans many of the detail sheets were left out.
Was this on purpose or is it operator error at this end?
Thanks.

hello might be operatede error i had no problem down loading mine got all 53 pages unless there more page.

let me refarase that not operated error might be something wrong with the server. Never can tell with pc.

I got all 53 pages.
I couldn't find detl08,09,10,11,12,22,27,36.
Those are actually of third party vendor type items so that may be why I don't have them, or rather why they aren't available.
I guess I'll muddle through it somehow.
Hate to think I spent eight years in college for nothing!
Thanks.
DaveP

I got all 53 pages.
I couldn't find detl08,09,10,11,12,22,27,36.
Those are actually of third party vendor type items so that may be why I don't have them, or rather why they aren't available.
I guess I'll muddle through it somehow.
Hate to think I spent eight years in college for nothing!
Thanks.
DaveP

I got all 53 pages.
I couldn't find detl08,09,10,11,12,22,27,36.

Using the search in Adobe Reader I was able to find all of these on page 53:
dtl08: Stepper motor
dtl09: Coupler (3 needed one for each stepper)
dtl10: Y-axis lead screw 1/4-20" x 43.5"
dtl11: Flanged bearing
dtl12: .5x.75x36" aluminum hold down channel from www.rockler.com
dtl22: Y-axis lead screw 1/4-20" x 24.5"
dtl27: Skate ball bearings (as in in-line skating) need 24
dtl36: Z-axis lead screw 1/4-20" x 13.5"

Those are actually of third party vendor type items so that may be why I don't have them, or rather why they aren't available.
I guess I'll muddle through it somehow.
Hate to think I spent eight years in college for nothing!
Thanks.
DaveP

Great set of plans, I am just starting to look it over now. I am thinking making one with a cutting area of 24x24. I'll post progress as well when I am able to start the project .

I was wondering if there was anyone in Arizona that might be able to help in cutting parts.

First time poster! Plans look great! I am going to take a closer look at them tonight. I hope to make a larger machine. I'll keep watching.

A- Dog

Hey, Newbie here. I found this site a couple of weeks ago, and I not sure why but I just have got to build one of these. I've become possessed. Background is embedded electronics/software as a profession and woodworking/cabinet making as a passion.

I am using jgro’s design as a start. (Thank You jgro!!!) Plan to change a couple of things (of course). I wish to change the X and Z bearings to 1/2" drill rod and flanged bushings but I will stick with the roller skate bearings for now. Early testing shows me that the original design does not bind, but somehow seems a bit crude.

I have all the MDF, pipes, and aluminum cut and plan to order HobeyCNC controller (those Allegro drivers seem sweet) and their 200 oz steppers soon. I also have a 30 volt 26 Amp power supply. Tomorrow I start drilling/tapping the couple of thousand holes. It is weird for a woodworker to tap MDF. I usually use biscuits and glue.

I want to switch to 1/2" 10 ACME for the lead screws for speed and they just seem more professional. So here is my initial question;

How do I attach the lead screws? I have poked around this site and have learned “the lead screw should be supported at both ends and the motor should just be used to drive it”. Seems like sound advice to me. I plan to support at both ends and use spider type motor couplings. Jgro uses (at the non-motor end) a nut-washer-flanged bearing(s)-lock washer-nut combination. How is this? Do you really compress the lock washer against the bearing? It seems like the friction would be huge.

Second question; I think I will order the anti-backlash nuts from DunpsterCNC. How do I attach them? Why don’t they put larger flanges and mounting holes on them?

Third question, I have AutoCad at work which can produce dxf or stl files. Is Mach2 then all I need to drive this thing?

I might post pictures if it turns out OK.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve,
I also was a little perplexed by the methodology of screwing the MDF together. I've experienced a lot of 'loosening' in the past.
If you think it over and decide to try some biscuits in some of the joinery please review your progress here.
I bought some of the McFeely screws for MDF joining.
Both 7mm and 4mm.
They look good but I'm just one who believes in some good glue and biscuits.

For anyones reference:
www.mcfeelys.com
mmd-0750 7x50mm step pilot drill bit $26.95
5040-csp-c 5mm x 40 mm connecting screw $4.66/C
7050-csp-c 7mm x 50mm connecting screw $7.00/C

And I like you could not find the detail on the various lead screw ends.
DaveP kywoodwrkr

Hey, Newbie here. I found this site a couple of weeks ago, and I not sure why but I just have got to build one of these. I've become possessed. Background is embedded electronics/software as a profession and woodworking/cabinet making as a passion.

I am using jgro’s design as a start. (Thank You jgro!!!) Plan to change a couple of things (of course). I wish to change the X and Z bearings to 1/2" drill rod and flanged bushings but I will stick with the roller skate bearings for now. Early testing shows me that the original design does not bind, but somehow seems a bit crude.

I have all the MDF, pipes, and aluminum cut and plan to order HobeyCNC controller (those Allegro drivers seem sweet) and their 200 oz steppers soon. I also have a 30 volt 26 Amp power supply. Tomorrow I start drilling/tapping the couple of thousand holes. It is weird for a woodworker to tap MDF. I usually use biscuits and glue.

I want to switch to 1/2" 10 ACME for the lead screws for speed and they just seem more professional. So here is my initial question;

How do I attach the lead screws? I have poked around this site and have learned “the lead screw should be supported at both ends and the motor should just be used to drive it”. Seems like sound advice to me. I plan to support at both ends and use spider type motor couplings. Jgro uses (at the non-motor end) a nut-washer-flanged bearing(s)-lock washer-nut combination. How is this? Do you really compress the lock washer against the bearing? It seems like the friction would be huge.

Second question; I think I will order the anti-backlash nuts from DunpsterCNC. How do I attach them? Why don’t they put larger flanges and mounting holes on them?

Third question, I have AutoCad at work which can produce dxf or stl files. Is Mach2 then all I need to drive this thing?

I might post pictures if it turns out OK.

Thanks,
Steve

1/2" drill rod will have a LOT of flex. You might want to rethink that.

As for Mach2, it won't do anything with .stl files. You'll have to get something like MeshCAM http://www.grzsoftware if you want to do 3D stuff. Mach2 will create g-code from 2D .dxf files. Or, you can try my free macro which exports g-code from inside AutoCAD. It will do quite a bit more than the Mach2 dxf converter. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8226

I am new to this thread--I first wanted to thank John for his design, but more importantly thank him for the time he took to document it. I have built it and was amazed how easy it went together and how clean the plans were. Kudos John!!! I have had so much fun with this machine over the last six months I can't tell you.

I am embarking on my second generation machine incorporating some improvements I would like to make. I have attached some pictures of three areas I want to address in this design and would like to hear comments from anyone willing to ablige. The three areas are:

1.) Gas Pipe support-adjuster thing-a-ma-jigs: MDF is too weak for this function. I used an insert of PVC (I cut a piece of water pipe), then augmented this with nuts.
2.) The skate bearing work great for the Y and Z axis, but the length of the X made the play next to impossible to remove-I have addressed this with an additional set of skate bearings on the outboard side. This gives a three point of contact and works well.
3.) The gantry has a bit of side to side wobble. I have not addressed this, but think a couple of pieces of "angle iron" (I'd use aluminum) running vertically fixed to the outside of the gantry would fix this.

Attached are some photos to illustrate. Click on them to zoom in.

Greg - working on Gen 2.

P.S. Thanks again to John, I bow down to you!!!!

Well, I am finally assembling my unit based on these plans!

A few bugs, such as having to drill the holes on the sides twice since i mis-read the measurements, and a mistake that is causing insuffucuent clearance on the Z axis, but all-in-all not bad!

got the Y axis moving, as a test, and it ran FANTASTICALLY! set up 0 backlash in Turbocnc, and still was unable to find any problems. I used a 4" caliper to measure movement, and it appeared to be exactly on base.

If my other axis turn out as well, I will be happy! glueing supports in to allow the bed to be flush with the top edge of the X axis endpieces to allow more clearance, and have yet to build the bed supports, but hopefully only a few more days until it is actually running !!

I will try to attach a photo.. I have since reversed the Y axis so is facing you after this photo was taken, and shortened the length of the X axis to 35", but the longer pipes leave me the option to expand later to a bigger unit...

probably a project I will undertake sooner than later.. HAHAHA

Eddie

Thanks for the replys.

Wow, 1/2" drill rod flexes more that 1/2" gas pipe? Never would of thought that. I'll give it more thought.

Spent the day (with two sick family members) drilling and then assembling the torsion boxes. Thank goodness for nail guns!

So the software goes like this (?) :
AutoCad -> MeshCam -> Mach2 -> MyMachine
or
AutoCad -> Ger21 macro -> Mach2 -> MyMachine
or
Rhino3D -> MeshCam -> Mach2 -> MyMachine

Is this right, always a three step process?

While I was posting this I noticed GregMary's post. Good sugestions. Looks like you have been using this for a while. Nice to know. Looks to me like you added support for the Y axis (the long axis) as jgro calls it. Is this so? It seems to be that the X and Y can be flipped as it depends on "how you look at it". Not picking, just want to make sure I understand.

Any advice on lead screw attachment? I really want help on this.

Thanks,
Steve

Okay.. here are 2 more photos.. the first shows the mill with the Y axis turned around as it appears now.. the second shows my lack of clearance..

the clamps are holding the wood pieces the will support my bed when I lower it down.. not a great way of doing things, but it will work temporarily.

I cracked several pieces from tightening them too much, and want to get this thing to work cutting out new pieces !!

As you can see, I experimented with several different types and colors of paint.. I will probably go with the red when I get this thing finished totally...

Eddie

For my lead screw I used 5/16" standard threaded rod. I then got a couple of 5/16" threaded couplers and drilled a set screw into one end, ground a flat on my stepper motor and used this as a coupler. With the anti-back lash arrangments JRGO describes it is surprisingly accurate. I was thinking of going to acme precision threaded rod, but the standard 18 threads per inch 5/16th worked real well.

Greg

I like the larger lead screw. Less whip in my mind. How did you attach it at the other (non-motor) end?

I'm still thinking ACME 1/2 10. ????

Before I press the BUY button, are 200 oz motors overkill (as compared to 115) or should I just do it.

Steve

Well, I went with 5/16-18 threaded rod as well, since it is the same diameter as my stepper motor shaft (I am using NEMA 34 motors).

Using plain old vacuum line as I originally learned worked very well, as long as you thread the rod in until it is right up against the motor shaft, and then clamp on both sides of the joint.

As for supporting my ends, I haven't yet.. The one I installed as a test os merely resting on the bottom of the hole drilled in the far axis support. I will probably drill out a hole to install a roller bearing and screws, since 5/16 is the size that fits them so well! Screws along the edge of the bearing should hold it in..

Eddie

The way I supported my other end (non motor end) was by using more skate bearings. I had to use a spacer between the threaded rod and the skate bearing, then used two nuts on each side to secure the bearing. Then I used two large washers to secure the skate bearing to the frame. The rod is held centered and spins easily, also a bit of preload is applied on the threaded rod to elimiate any slop or whip.

How would you attach 1/2 acme precision rod to a motor shaft? You must need some kind of custom coupler.

Greg

I like the larger lead screw. Less whip in my mind. How did you attach it at the other (non-motor) end?

I'm still thinking ACME 1/2 10. ????

Before I press the BUY button, are 200 oz motors overkill (as compared to 115) or should I just do it.

Steve

The 1/2-10 will give you more speed, but will require bigger motors. You might even want to get bigger motors, as you can't have too much power. BUt you also need to match the motors to the drives you'll be using to get the best performance from them.

Good thought on the skate bearings for lead screw attachment. Did you have to allow for alignment?

Here is a link for different size shaft couplers (3 peice jaw coupling)
You need to order each end separately and also the spider.
I believe these would work for threaded rod or ACME (?).
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=862

Maybe I'll just start with threaded rod, get it going, and then re-think ACME.

Steve

acme is really cheap at places like http://www.mscdirect.com You might want to try 3/8-12 acme. $13.39 for 6 ft.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=3856

I think I would want to use stainless steel for the acme precision rod, but that is still only $40 for a 6 foot section, enough to do both my X and Y axis. All of the nuts and couplers will cost though. The nuts are about $20 each. I thought you needed two nuts per axis for back lash adjustment. For my 5/16 threaded rod I just used delrin that I drilled and tapped. You would need a special "ACME thread" tap to do that with ACME precision threaded rod (about $60). The couplers are about $15 apiece. If you could get by with only one nut per axis that would be less than $150 for the drive system. Interesting.......

You can easily make a tap out of the actual acme rod for tapping delrin. There are quite a few examples in this forum.

I could also see going with SS rod.

One reason (other than I thought that 10 tpi would give a bit of a speed increase) that I had landed on 1/2 10 ACME was that the couplers were about $5.50 from enco, enco also has non-SS nuts for $.99 (I don't care if the nuts rust) and DumpsterCNC had 1/2" anti-backlash assemblies for about $15.

None of this seems this cost available for 3/8.

I just get the feeling from Jerry that 10 tpi is to small for my 200 oz motors. Guess I should just try some combinations.

Just came back from a thought break....

Who are we kidding about using SS parts? This is a first machine, to be sure to replaced later by another before the rods age. A little silicone spray will keep this baby going for a long while. After all we are riding on painted gas pipe. The most important thing to protect is the motor.

After reading several posts, the lead screw should be supported at both ends, this impies 12 nuts. The cost of the nuts becomes a real factor.

I find this whole site so very exciting. I am building my first CNC project using jgro's plans. I was wondering if someone can help me. I'm not exactly sure which lead screws or flanged bearings i should be buying from the McCaster site. Can someone help me with maybe the part numbers from the McMaster site. Also I see that the x-axis is 24.5 and the z-axis is 13.5, can i buy a 3 ft piece or is it going to be too short?

I take what i said back. I'm buying everything from MSC industrial. They are alot cheaper. Has anyone bought from them and if so what part numbers and how many did you buy.

Any chance this machine will do some alum parts, even real slowly? Reason I ask is I am thinking of getting my feet wet with this cheaper machine, and buidling Data-Cut, or CadCut, or a couple other bigger better machines. I was curious to if this machine could help make some of the Alum parts for them, even slowly....

Well, I'm getting close.

I'd say about 80% done with the mechanical. That's a lot of drilling!

Going with GER21's recomadation of 3/8 12 leadscrew. (GER, you da man, I have been reading all your posts. You seem to know your stuff. Hardware and software.) Made the leadscrew holes larger so I can add bearngs as I think them up.

A lot of stuff in the mail. Leadscrew, bearings, couplers, Actel. Went with HobbyCNC drivers and 200 oz steppers. Maybe overpriced, but I feel comfortable with it for a start.

My power supply was at 49 volts, so had to design a linear regulator to bring it down to 42. So much to do.

Plan to tap my own anti-backlash leadscrew nuts with left over 3/8-12. I know I have seen posts here on making your own taps, but I can't find them now. Anybody please send a link to one of them.

I am having so much fun, and this is truely a great site.

Steve

Well, I got mine mostly all built.. a few glitches to work out, such as raising the bed, but temporarily, I bolted on a longer board to allow my router to reach the bed to test it.
Actually ran a test file tonight, and it turned out reasonably well, considering I have done *NO* backlash measurements, and my End mill bits are dull!

Anybody got any place where they have deals on End Mills? I can only use 1/4" shafts, since that is all my router allows.

I have a bid in on a speed control for my router, but atleast it is running !!!

Eddie Miller

(Now I just need to learn the software!!)

Well, I got mine mostly all built.. a few glitches to work out, such as raising the bed, but temporarily, I bolted on a longer board to allow my router to reach the bed to test it.
Actually ran a test file tonight, and it turned out reasonably well, considering I have done *NO* backlash measurements, and my End mill bits are dull!

Anybody got any place where they have deals on End Mills? I can only use 1/4" shafts, since that is all my router allows.

I have a bid in on a speed control for my router, but atleast it is running !!!

Eddie Miller

(Now I just need to learn the software!!)
www.wttool.com might have a local store or one close.. they have a huge sale right now on end mills.

Although many people use them as such, endmills are NOT router bits. They use different geometry. Router bits will cut wood faster and cleaner than an endmill, which is designed for metal. They should last longer, too. The downside, is that router bits tend to be more expensive. Especially when the site listed above has them for $1. :)

yea i agree.. when it comes to bits you get what you pay for.. though sometimes a 1 buck bit for a one time shot will work..

Has anybody generated a cutting sheet from the plans ?
I want to have the timber merchant cut to a rough tolerance as I have no way of getting a 4 x 8 sheet home, and also no easy way to cut up a big sheet at home :( ..

Thanx
Thys

Here is my sketch of a 4' X 8' sheet and how I cut it up. You will want to add the dimensions.

Greg

Just a reminder that Home Depot, and I'm sure the other stores do it too, Sell 1/4 and half sheets of MDF. They are a little bit more expensive but I fit 8 3/4"x2'x4' sheets in my trunk with no problem.


Hope this Helps,
George

When you lay it out remmeber MDF is 49" wide and 97" long.
Also our Home Depot here cuts material up for us.
I had one sheet of particle board cut into 2'x4' sections for model airplane building. No charge.
FWIW
DaveP

Yes, my Home Depot gives you 2 cuts for free, and $0.25 for each additional cut. Usually if it's only 3, they don't even bother charging you. As far as I can tell, the 2 cuts seem to be a standard company policy.

Eight 2x4' sheets is just a single 4x8' sheet with 3 cuts in it.

-- Chuck Knight

does anyone volunteer enough making this plan with solidwork ?

i hope i have time to make one

rud

Thanx
Now I can take this to my friendly lumber yard here in South Africa, and only get charged R26 for cutting.. about $4..

Yay.
At least i'm getting past the spinning motor stage now :)
Thanx
Thys
Cape Town South Africa

does anyone volunteer enough making this plan with solidwork ?

i hope i have time to make one

rud

There are solidworks plans already done for this design. http://cnczone.com/downloads/jgro_router_SolidWorks.zip

Please be advised that I think the size in the BOM is incorrect for the DTL01 and DTL02 items.
You will notice that each is made up of two pieces and that those pieces are twice the length depicted. The detlail drawings are correctly dimensioned.
The BOM show DTL01(and DTL02) at 1.5"x8.25"x16.25".
I'm cutting mine 4 at .75"x8.25"x32.5".
Actually since I'm including sides to support some midway pipe supports(underside-outside) I'm making one of each of the two end pieces 1.5" longer for an overlap of the sides.
FWIW
DaveP

Does anyone know what the 20 dowel pins are used for

Many of the MDF joints are joined by glue and dowel pins. If you look at the assembly drawings you can see dotted lines representing the dowel pins.

Greg

Take a 4 blocks of wood that are cut to the same height and place these under the rails. Use a large carpenter square and set one of the rails square to the base. Next cut 2 pieces of wood that can be used as spacers to place between the two rails to keep them parallel. Check with your square to make sure that the second rail is square to the base when you are done. That should get your rails close. You may need to adjust one of them later to get them to mate up with the bearings on the gantry. To set the gantry, this is what I did. There are 4 drilled and tapped holes in the bottom piece of the gantry shown on the drawings. These are for jack screws. Set the bearings up as I showed in post #66 of this thread. That is your starting point. Next set the gantry into position as close as you can, adjust one of the rails if needed and screw some bolts into the jack screw holes. Screw the jack screws down until they just touch the base. Loosen all of the bearing bolts. Measure from side to side to make sure the gantry is set into the center of the machine. Next place a level or something that you know to be straight and stiff across the pipes behind the gantry and measure from the level to the bottom of the gantry. Adjust the jack screws until both sides read the same. Do the same thing for the front of the gantry. Once all the measurements are the same, take 2 wood screws and screw the gantry down tight to the base. Now you can tighten the bearing bolts. I used a Vise Grip C-clamp to clamp the bearings tight to the pipe and preload the bearings. I hope this all makes sense.

jgro

I'm having difficulty understanding the adjustments built into the gantry/base assembly as described by Jgro. I'm sure what he's written is perfect for a good builder; I'm just too inexperienced to understand everything being said. I've attached an image showing the assembly in question along with the jack screws highlighted by the red oval. Could someone elaborate on the process Jgro described? Also when he says "bearing bolts" are those the bolts holding the whole bearing truck assemblies on or the individual bolts going through the bearings?

Thanks!

~Dan

I did not use the bolts you have circled to adjust the tracking of the gantry. And this was the trickiest part of the assy. I used the two bolts holding the Aluminum angle to the MDF gantry frame. What you are attempting to do is to get the two long gas pipes to be absolutley parallel and level and seperated exactly at both ends. That is the easy part. What is difficult is to get the gantry set up so the center axis of the two linear bearings are co-linear with the axis of the gas pipe tracks.

The problem is it is near impossible to "see" and thus hard to set the axis of the linear bearings. I used the gas pipe to do this. I took the gas pipe out of the base assy, then set the gantry (all by itself off of the tracks) and set it on the work bendh. I took the two long gas pipes and used several strong bungie cords to pull then into the side bearing assys so the pipe extended out in both directions. Imagine the drawing you have attached above, except only the gas pipes are installed into the linear bearings with no support at their ends.

I then used a level to get both pipes (only being supported by the gantry's linear bearins mind you) in the same plane. Then I used a tape measure to get the two end of the gas pipe equa-distant from each other. Then I tightened every thing down. Once the gantry linear bearings were square, I put the whole thing together into the base and using the level and a tape again made sure the pipes were level and square in the base.

Hope this helps,

Greg

Greg, yes, thank you. That was extremely helpful. Hope you will answer a followup question too. With the bearings mating both on the top and bottom of the rail on both sides, do you have to remove one of the pipes in order to mount the gantry?

~Dan

Dan, I feel your pain.

I have got this thing all built and I am spending hours adjusting. My biggest problem (so far) is the large black pipe. Mine is much pitted and flexes allot. When I get it right at the ends, it flexes in the middle. I am considering more bracing.

Another problem is shaft coupling. I am using 3/8-12 as the lead screws. My motors are 1/4 shaft. Seems like an easy problem, but I can't find cheap couplers. I have purchased and installed Love-Joy three piece couplers with the rubber spider in the middle. I think this may cause problems as the rubber is supposed to absorb shock, but this may introduce backlash. I don't know. Anybody used this type and have a comment? I'd rather go with rigid couplers, but I can not find any less than $25 a piece. Seems weird, all I want is a piece of aluminum with two hole sizes and set screws. I'm not sure if rubber hose (seen in other posts) would be better than my current couplers.

I did add roller bearings at the far end from the motor, captured in little MDF mounts that seem to work really well. I can post a picture if anyone cares.

Steve

Steve, would like to see any pictures you have. I'm forced to wait on the machine construction for a little bit, so I'm trying to work out these little things before it comes time to tackle the construction.

For the long axis, I was thinking of modifying the design to operate like Jgro's second machine with the bearings on the top and sides of the pipe so the entire bottom of the pipe can be braced.

I'm still puzzling over how the gantry gets inserted and removed. Have you reached that point yet?

~Dan

It's late tonight, so sorry no pics.

You have to remove a pipe (rail) to install any axis. Just try to remember where you had it for alignment. It is a 3 dimensional puzzle. It's a *****. Don't get frustrated. Just do it. Keep it fun.

Just a thought about glue, I am a woodworker and am used to gluing everything. The only thing that I glued in JGRO’s design is the torsion boxes. Everything else is not glued. This allowed me to disassemble it (many times) and make adjustments. The dowels are there for alignment and to prevent shear. The tapped bolts apply compression. My advice is to not glue the gantry aand any of the Z axis parts. Think of the MDF as aluminum.

Steve

Hi,

www.jameco.com has cheap couplers. They have the spider couplers for about $5.00 for all three pieces. I can't remember if they have straight couplers.

Dan,

You do have to remove one of the pipes to install the gantry. I loosen one pipe and slide it forward enough to let it move. Then I drop in the gantry, support it in possition of the stationary pipe and slide the other pipe into position.

Here are two photos of linear bearing arrangements. I had trouble when I only contacted the gas pipe at two points. When I added the third it worked so much better.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/634/cat/500/page/1

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/635/cat/500/page/1

Greg

Axel, so are spider couplers OK? Seems like the rubber fixes any alignment problems but do they add too much backlash? I have them installed, but not much data yet.

Greg, did you spread out the 2nd and 3rd alum angle to get it to fit? I guess this might fix the flex problem on the long axis, but not sure how. Had a thought of using 1/2 inch gas pipe with 3/4 inch angle iron on the side for the skate bearings to ride on. It seems like this would fit in this design without to much modification.

Thanks for the comments,
Steve

Spalm, I think they would be fine as long as they fit together with a light press fit. I have not purchsed any of those couplers from jameco and I am not sure how they fit. I would think that they could be shimmed into a tight fit if necessary.

All this week I got to work (play) on our large Pacer CNC at work, and I managed to fit in a fiddle, here are my X-axis strengtheners that I made from an offcut I havent tried them in anger but the gantry seems to be a lot stiffer.

Paul

am a newbie here no matter who you are thankyou any way

The Free plans call for HoldDown Channels and all I can to find is t-slots if it is possible some can give me a link to and product number to hold down channels like the one's JrGo is using

Like this?
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?sku=5325&cs=1

Anyone have the part number or bearing number for: dtl11: Flanged bearing??

Hello all, first router complete using the JGRO spec, next I'd like to build another identical one, but more precise than some of the mis-cuts/drills that I made by hand(lots of coaxing of some holds). Forgive me if my question has already been posted, but is there a way to take the JGRO dxf plans and run them thru the ACE converter to generate the gcode or do I just need to redraw them all in lightwave or a9tech? Thanx
Peter

hi

i was thinking of using some M8 1.25 pitch threaded bar for my project as imperial is difficult to get hold of. has any one tried it and with what results?

Thanks Matt

but is there a way to take the JGRO dxf plans and run them thru the ACE converter to generate the gcode or do I just need to redraw them all in lightwave or a9tech? Thanx
Peter

I haven't looked at them, but if they are 2D you'll probably have to offset the lines 1/2 the tool diameter to get the parts the correct size. You could use A9CAD or any other CAD. Lightwave would not work.

If i build the jgro router, how do i set it up with the computer? also, how do i design and then transfer something to the machine? is this expensive software? any tips?
thanks a lot

There are free and low cost CAD systems available, and any program that can output a DXF file (standard autocad file) can be used. Many, here, use Corel Draw to do some of the more artistic designs.

Now, the CNC software is also easily available, and ranges from free, through low cost, to quite expensive. Check out http://www.dakeng.com and look at TurboCNC. It's a shareware program that is quite highly thought of, here.

-- Chuck Knight

Ger21, Why will lightwave not work, it can export dxf files? Has anyone else had any luck on converting JGRO's dxf files to gcode? Just wasn't sure if I was missing a setting in ACE r something..
Thanx
Peter

JRGO:

I see from your web site that your second CNC mill has a fixed gantry with bronze bushings sliding on drill stock. Is there an advantage of this design over the first CNC design?

Thanks,

Richard

Ger21, Why will lightwave not work, it can export dxf files? Has anyone else had any luck on converting JGRO's dxf files to gcode? Just wasn't sure if I was missing a setting in ACE r something..
Thanx
Peter

Read this thread. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9885
I don't exactly remember, but it looks like LW's exporter doesn't export any arcs.

rweatherly,

Not really. I thought it might be easier to set up and cheaper, but it really wasn't. Getting those shafts to glide smoothly was a pain. I was trying to get a more rigid machine. It's a little more rigid, but I still have flexing problems in the uprights and the 3/4" shafts that go accross the rigid gantry should have been made with 1" shafts. I just thought I would try something different.

jgro

What is the cutitng area of the standard JGRO?

I built a Y-axis torsion box 10.5"x3"x5'6" using 1/4" plywood, sorry no pics of the construction, not sure it was gonna turn out! but I can post the final painted product, pretty RIGID!

I am looking for a 50"x 26" with at least 6" on Z cutting area (scalable to 50"x50") and wonder what I can scale everything to

Ger21
Thanks for the link, that helped a ton, hate to have spent a fortune on LW 8 and it fails at something so simple, heh, but I didn't buy it for my mill, just trying it out..Thanx again!!

-=Peter=-

hello im new to the cnc area and wonderd if ill use different materials such as steel or aluminum will I be able to use a dremel to cut 1 mm of secc steel or 1mm aluminum ??

and will its solve some of the problems that are raised here ?

hello im new to the cnc area and wonderd if ill use different materials such as steel or aluminum will I be able to use a dremel to cut 1 mm of secc steel or 1mm aluminum ??

and will its solve some of the problems that are raised here ?

A dremel is to weak for metals and wood for that matter, Bare min. I would use a rotozip and cutting and low feed rates on machine.

i post this reply on your comment (joe2000che) only to understand

but ive done this with my dremel (not on cnc platform)
http://www.gruntville.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12881


i really need to use the dremel becuse im not in the usa =\
and in my country its a problem to get half of the stuff i need -=\

are you sure its imposible ? (slow speeds maybe and im using dimond bits)

i post this reply on your comment (joe2000che) only to understand

but ive done this with my dremel (not on cnc platform)
http://www.gruntville.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12881


i really need to use the dremel becuse im not in the usa =\
and in my country its a problem to get half of the stuff i need -=\

are you sure its imposible ? (slow speeds maybe and im using dimond bits)

no not impossible, but the speed you cut by hand will be the spped i would use on the machine.

why dose a dremel is not so good for cnc's ? maybe i could compensate it by modifying the design ? or is there any other tool that i can use that i can find in a tools shop (and is cheap:D )
thanks for the help

why dose a dremel is not so good for cnc's ? maybe i could compensate it by modifying the design ? or is there any other tool that i can use that i can find in a tools shop (and is cheap:D )
thanks for the help

The Dremel does not have torgue for cutting, you can tell this when cutting by hand and it slowes down or stopes on you, this would be a disater if that happens on a cnc machine during a cut with constant feed and presure.

But Dremel does make a roto zip type tool now i believe (not sure) you just need something as close to a router you can get, because thats what you are actually doing routing things out.

Joe

umm dose a drill have torgue for cutting metal ?

Hi jgro,

I like the plans you put up for this router. I also noticed that you have updated for some missing drawings, However I think there is still some missing...(dtl08,09,10,11,12,22,27,36). Is there a way to get these.

strokerjoe

also Forgot to as, I saw the jgro II and it looks like you used somthing other than gas pipe, is it ss? where is a good place to get some?

why dose a dremel is not so good for cnc's ? maybe i could compensate it by modifying the design ? or is there any other tool that i can use that i can find in a tools shop (and is cheap:D )
thanks for the help

Maybe you can use the BFW 40/E from proxxon. It's a 250W 900-6000 rpm motor with speedcontroller and 6 collets (up to 6mm).
I paid around 125 Euri (or Euro's :) ) for it.

The picture shows also a xy-table and stand but they are sold separately.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8375&stc=1

ummm its looks great but I think ill find it in a convenient store
for equipment in Israel =\

cant i use this ?
http://grm.m.walla.co.il/briefcase/00f3/y/o/n/c/i/h/c/a/t/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/r/200506251647585328/200506251650268946/DSC00198.JPG

http://grm.m.walla.co.il/briefcase/00f3/y/o/n/c/i/h/c/a/t/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/r/200506251647585328/200506251651458681/DSC00197.JPG

I tried to stop its will it rotates um I couldn't
(and sorry if im too thick headed i just want to use what i have if its posible if not ill buy what i need

again thanks for the help

A drill is really made for intermittant use, and not with side loading. Remember...when drilling a hole, the forces involve push *into* the drill. When cutting wood, the forces will be going sideways...this takes a different kind of bearing.

Do you have anything designed for cutting/routing wood? A router would be a good choice, and a Dremel tool or RotoZip would also be good choices.

Presumably Israel has tool stores, and hardware stores...see what is available, inexpensively. The US has a store that sells cheap Chinese imports, called Harbor Freight. While not the highest quality tools, even their offerings would be a good place to start.

-- Chuck Knight

i do have a dremel but ive been told it wouldnt have the turge for 1mm steel or aluminum i guess ill have to find a router of some sorts

thanks for the help every one when ill have the metrial ready ill start posting here the project =P

and again thanks for you help

Stokerjoe,

Look at the stocklist. Any parts that needed drawings, have them. I did not make drawings for off-the-shelf parts. The drawing names refer to the item number on the stocklist, not the sheet number. As for my second machine, the rods are drill rod. The only problem with them is that you can only buy them in 36" lengths max, unless you want to pay a furtune.

jgro

i know you did though its or hard or expansive to get it here in Israel

i just wanted to use what i have never mind ill get the router

umm i wanted to ask is it possible to change the material of the design to sheets of metal ?(like instead of mdf to use sheets of steel)

thanks for the help =P
(i know im thick)

Does someone know where in the picture gallery there are pictures of each sub-assembly for these plans? I'm a little confused by some of the steps and I think a picture or 10 would help clear things up for me.

Thanks,
dan

I have some pictures on my website: http://www.nconnect.net/~jgro/cnc_I.htm What sub-assemblies are you having problems with?

jgro

I have some pictures on my website: http://www.nconnect.net/~jgro/cnc_I.htm What sub-assemblies are you having problems with?


John, thank you for your prompt reply and offer for help!

My question mainly centered on cnc_dlt05. After much pondering and talking to people though I think I have it figured out.

It looks like from the picture that the 1/2" pieces should be 3" high by 5 3/8". And when the completed piece is viewed from the bottom, it should look like really shallow cubby holes? Is this correct?

And on cnc_dtl34, it looks like there are two different pieces to be built?

Thank you for your help!

-dan

Yes you are correct. dtl05 ends up looking like a bunch of shallow cubby holes when you are done. dtl34 is one piece. It has a .75 wide slot on one side and 2 narrow slots on the other side for the aluminum channel that hold the skate bearings.

jgro

Just wanted to say thanks to jgro, for offering the plans here, I was able to revamp them to a larger machine, here is a link to mine.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10067

Thanks, Joe

I have been going through the drawings and am puzzled by the lone wood screw shown on the Bed Assembly drawing (cnc_assy04) a.k.a. item #61 on the stock list. Evidence of this screw also shows up in drawings 01. What's this screw for and why does it protrude above the table surface?

Thanks,

Enigmetallic

Ignore it. I forgot to take it out of the assembly.

jgro

Ah. Roger that! Thanks for the quick response.

BTW, excellent and very generous work you've provided to this community. It will undoubtedly be the seed for my first foray into CNC routing and I thank you.

Regards,

Enigmetallic

Another noob question here. I think I have the basics of home/limit switches figured out. However, would anyone be willing to share some photos of a proven home/limit switch setup on a machine built from the jgro plans? Any help would be appreciated!

Regards,

Enigmetallic

I am looking for the dxf version of the parts. I tried serching this thread using dxf, but it says no matches, even though I know there are some posts in this thread with dxf in them. Anyway I have the solidworks version, but would like the dxf version to work with my limited software.

Thanks,

Richard

I am going to modify my jgro design to put the Y axis (the axis that the gantry rides on) bearings similar to John's second design, where the bearings ride on top and side of the 1" pipe. Has anyone else done this?

For DXF files, look here: http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&file=viewfile&id=24

jgro

great plans. now if I can build it I'll be happy.
Thanx

You should run that by Craig Libuse.One of those little set ups could possably be marketed with their stuff.Heck they did something different for Hightower.Nice work and great base plans.

I am wondering if greater cutting depth can be implemented into your design? What would be the drawbacks or things to watch out for?? I'd like to be able to cut some 3D items like R/C boat hulls, etc.

Thanks,

Does any one have this modeled up in solids, that would be willing to share?

Thanks,

Mike...

I'm gonna try to see if i can change the solidworks drawings to millimeters and then export it to *.pdf Hope this will help other europeans like me.

I have a small question when looking over the plans, I am a total noob to this but I was wondering if the item you call the anti-backlash nut is the same (or has the same function) as a ballscrew you can find on ebay etc. Some items I can't find on the mcmaster.com website. Maybe it's possible you can supply direct links to the items we need.

EDIT: I will automatically convert it to millimeters. It can happen that some screw sizes aren't used in the metric system but if you use something close to it I think it will work. Also I'm going to round it off to a full millimeter, no numbers after the comma. In my opinion this differnce is marginal and it's an accuracy you'll never be able to get using hand tools.

how do you size to 4'x8' thanks

I'm gonna try to see if i can change the solidworks drawings to millimeters and then export it to *.pdf Hope this will help other europeans like me
Dont you mean the rest of the world ?
Funny how the country the most resistant to changing to metric, has so strongly adopted the measurement of a foreign kings foot. And yet the country whose kings foot was measured, has abandoned the imperial measurement.

Dont you mean the rest of the world ?
Funny how the country the most resistant to changing to metric, has so strongly adopted the measurement of a foreign kings foot. And yet the country whose kings foot was measured, has abandoned the imperial measurement.

I agree !
I just recalled... Mars Climate Orbiter :rolleyes: ... great sucsess... NOT!!!!!
:)

I am wondering if greater cutting depth can be implemented into your design? What would be the drawbacks or things to watch out for?? I'd like to be able to cut some 3D items like R/C boat hulls, etc.


In theory, you could make the vertical ax (Z) as long as you like, the problem is that
things will start to bend more and more. if you make the z-ax lager, you need to:
-space the Y-ax rods further apart
-space the bearings on the Y-ax further apart (which makes the rods longer, so
they bend even more!)
-space the bearings on the X-ax rods further apart (which makes the rods longer,
so they bend even more!, and makes the whole machine a lot bigger)

or, make all parts realy stiff, and support the linear bearing rods in many places.

how much things bend is also depending on how much force you couse at the end of
the mill bit. when milling foam you can get away with a lot, since the forces are very small.
In aluminium the force needed to "push" the mill bit through the material will be much
bigger.

of cource you could just cut aluminium in many passes, so each pass removes a very
small amount of material, witch reduces the needed force on the mill bit accordingly.
taking many passes will be slow, but from reading this form, i get the impression that
that is the method all these small cnc mashines use to mill aluminium. :-)

So, it all depends, but basically you imagine pushing hard agenst the tip of the mill
bit (from all possible 6 directions), and think of everything that would bend because
of that (both bending of rods and bending of (wood or alu) machine parts, and the
effect of play in the linear bearings).

You will end up spacing things far apart to keep the moments small, but making things
short to prevent bending. (and find a middle road)

i hope this helps.
Jaap.

Nah, I mean Europe, don't care much for the rest of the world :p J/K ;)
Small question though, anyone has experience with xynotek (or whatever they're called) shipping to europe?

Small question though, anyone has experience with xynotek (or whatever they're called) shipping to europe?


Xylotex
http://www.simplycnc.com

Unfortunately they don't sell the 3 axis kit there. But I still have time to look things over on what to choose. If anyone can tell me wether the steppers speed is related to the strength/accuracy on what you want to cut? I want to cut wood and computer sidepanels. Also a bit of copper milling.

Great plans! I particularlly like the adjustment block idea, I have not seen this before (I am new to this group so not sure if others have employed similar). I am building myself a gantry mill and may well incorperate some of the ideas you have presented.

Thanks, Rob.

Well, I have finally had enough of continually adjusting, and re-adjusting in an attempt to eliminate flex, and finally acepted that I had inherent problems with the basic construction of my machine.

After accepting this, I have completely dis-assembled my Y & Z Axis units, pulled them apart, and have used Gorilla Glue on every place where wood meets wood, and had to be bolted together.

I had too much problem with bolt holes stripping, and i guess it never did tighten up completely. When it dries tommorrow, I will (Hopefully) re-assemble it and see if this helped...

Of course, now i have to completely re-align everything again...