I'm an inventor and wish to own a CNC mill to prototype and test ideas.

I am not a machinist and have never run a mill before. I am, however, a Physicist and have no problem reading books or instruction manuals.

Can you please recommend a good option for me <$2000?

The intended use is to produce prototyping plastic resin molds/diy plastic injection molds.

Requirements:
Able to mill aluminum/plastic
Complete or close to complete hardware package (no software) with minimal assembly time (not a built from scratch)
Compatible with OTS software like, perhaps, camworks

Preferences:
Precision (rigidity + resolution?) is more important than job speed
Able to work on parts at least 5"x5"x4"

Ideally:
UPS/Fed-Ex-able

Thanks so much!

Extreme precision costs, and there are very highly accurate machines in that size range available for semiconductor/lab/etc. work costing $10-30k or more. For <$2000 precision is going to be relative, but can still be very impressive considering.
Don't know if they will be good enough for you, however. What are your expected tolerances?

There are only a few mill packages in that price range and a couple of them won't really fit your bill. The two best candidates are the Sherline and the Taig. Given those two the Taig would I think be the hands down favorite around here overall, and my recommendation as well. They are pretty much both designed squarely at the envelope, materials, and spindle speeds you will be needing. The Taig is both uglier and generally more capable all around, but both are well-built, simple to operate, and with a lot of support and accessories available.


One mill available in the same price/size range you might run across would be the MaxNC, which would not serve well for what you want it to do, and they tend to have a history of some rather disconcerting quality and design issues as well. Best avoided.

Another would be the X2 or other Chinese mill conversion, a heavier-duty if somewhat coarser design than the other choices. It is capable of doing heavier cuts and in harder materials than the other choices, and handling heavier/larger tooling, but as such also has much lower spindle speeds and several other design details geared toward that purpose that would not really recommend it for what you propose.

There are a larger number of choices available if you can go above $2000, especially useful if you want the mill for more than one dedicated purpose. A Taig is a really good choice for your budget, but there are also much larger and more capable mills for a relatively incremental increase in cost. Being an inventor, you will likely find other uses as well for cutting larger items, steel items, etc. once you have a mill at hand. If you have the space and the budget can stretch, you might want to consider it.

Thanks for your reply...

I don't have any specific tolerances in mind at the moment. My statement was more of, "if there are two in the same price range, I'd rather have the more precise of the two than the faster of the two." I suspect my needs are pretty easily met. Is .01" precision asking too much? I got the impression that all the units out there offered much better than this. Really, the desire for precision is more of a "what might I want to mill in the future" thing than a specific need right now.

$2k isn't a limit so much as it is a comfort zone. I could go up to $3k before my fingers started hurting...

I saw the Romaxx WD-1 and the IMService Servo units... These seemed to be in my price range. I wasn't sure if these were any good, or if they could even be used for aluminum... Also they're in my size range (tabletop).

The mills that you mentioned, are those all CNC mills with everything included?

cwm9 --
Given the workspace you have defined - seems like a desktop cnc router might be an ok solution too. There are a few out there in that price range - IMServe advertises on this site - and at least one of the members (Widgetmaster - as I recall) has a similar tabletop router he sells too.
Might try the question in the other threads - or try a search on "desktop cnc router"
Welcome Aboard, and
:cheers: Jim

A small desktop router may indeed be perfectly acceptable for you as they are much cheaper. They are also not meant for as heavy of work, so the aluminum moldmaking may come to be an issue. You will have to determine that balance.
One word of advice in any case; Though the routers can generally be just as accurate as the mills, if lighter duty, the spindles are a world apart. The router spindles tend to be much cheaper, much faster, and much sloppier than you need - usually by an order of magnitude on each count. While the usual hand router, a dremel-esque tool, or laminate trimmer choices all make perfectly acceptable and even optimal tools for most routing tasks, they do not work for your needs at all. You will need a much more accurate spindle with a broader array of collet choices.
This isn't a problem, it can be a perfectly workable configuration for you with a small desk router, but you need to be aware of the difference. Depending on choice of spindle, this may also remove much of the cost benefit of a router over a mill, which is another thing to take into account.


If you are feeling either really adventurous or somewhat patient, there is a new supplier of router-type machines that look to be exactly designed for your purposes. They are at www.vivaek.com (http://www.vivaek.com), and they are cheap and appear to be an impossibly good fit for what you need. One catch, no one has tried them yet! I have ordered some component parts from them and have been happy with the quality and price of those, but I don't think anyone here has sprung for a whole mill package yet. I liked the looks of it enough I'm confident - I'm now ordering one for myself to try out - but it's a complete crapshoot as to how good they really are until one of us actually tears one apart and sees what makes it tick.

Really, the only turn-key or near turn-key game in town (that I'm aware of anyway) is going to be vivaek, as stepper monkey mentioned. This gantry type mill has a literally unbelieveable price of $2355. http://www.vivaek.com/cnc3002.html It's really difficult to get a grasp of the actual physical size. It appears to be a sizeable machine, but it only weighs 210 lbs. I would question it's robustness, or apparent lack-of, considering that a little X2 weighs in over 150 lbs.

Here's a turn-key converted X2 mill, but it's priced @ a rather hefty $3500 (not worth it, imho)
http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X2.asp

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-35106614702942_1994_80402

Wow, first, thanks for everyones' wonderful help! :cheers:

It would seem the choice is between a Sherline or Taig or Sieg or similar then... sigh, I can see this isn't going to be a off the shelf as I was hoping. Oh well, that's life! Guess I'm going to have to become a CNC geek.

How much would a Taig Micro Mill run me if converted to CNC w/servos? w/steppers? (I understand stepper motors can loose steps?) I see there's a microproto product that says it is a CNC micromill... http://www.microproto.com/MMDSLS.htm Is that really the same mill with the same capabilities only CNC?

I'm a little confused because the microproto site lists the MicroMill DSLS 3000 price as $2995, where as the Taig site lists a 2026ER CNC mill price as $2155... but they look like the exact same machine! eh?

...

The Romaxx and IMService machines are both ruled out for being desktop routers. (BTW, what's with the desktop router manufacturers like IMService claiming 0.0004 mm step sizes when they don't use ball screw drives, and even if they did repeatability is only on the order of 60x that?)

As to the Vivaek, I went and read the thread... everyone wants to know if anyone has tried them yet. I did some research, and here's what I found:

They appear to be importing this:
http://www.cnlike.com/en_ProductShow.asp?ArticleID=117

Vivaek has internal photos up at: http://site.vivaek.com/cnc_pictures.html

The Vivaek comes with ball screws. I don't know how high quality they are, but the manufacturer web site states .01mm/.0004" The Sherline and Taig come with leadscrews, which I understand to be less accurate and not to last as long.

Is the difference between a mill and a router unit that the mill has a head driven by a belt and a router unit is directly driven by a motor?

If that's the case then I assume the Vivaek is really a desktop router (it actually says that on the manufacturers website), and the ball screws may be... inappropriately accurate compared to the rest of the build?

Regardless, I think "tried and true" is better for me than "buy and hope..."

Ballscrews are for rapid motion and low backlash. Acme lead screws are actually extremely high in resolution because of the higher thread count per inch.

For example, if your stepper motor is set at full step, that's 200 steps per motor revolution. A Ballscrew with 5 turns per inch will give very fast motion and 200 X 5 or 1000 steps per inch. That's a resolution of .001.

The same setup with a 20 TPI Acme leadscrew would be slower in motion, but have 4 times the resolution because there would be 200 X 20 or 4000 steps per inch.

The disadvantage of lead screws is that they WEAR so fast and have to be tightened and adjusted frequently. Then the wear over time happens at the point of most use.

CR.

You have definitely been doing your homework on CNC! There are a number of logical if incorrect assumptions newbs invariably make when looking at all this stuff for the first time though. A lot of it is pretty confusing. Hope this helps and doesn't make it more confusing!

First off let me say that ballscrews are nice for a number of reasons, but accuracy isn't necessarily one of them. Ballscrews can be less accurate than an acme screw or have higher backlash. I favor ballscrews usually, but one isn't always inherently superior over the other, they both have their place. In your context, ballscrews might be nicer but not a big issue to worry about much either way.

The stepper versus servo issue is a complex one, but it is not cut and dried. For small mills doing this sort of work steppers and servos have such little to separate them sometimes it is almost academic. Different story on a Bridgeport sized machine, but for this it's almost a wash. Steppers can even actually have the advantage, and in your case probably do. "Lost steps" is more a classic sales bogeyman than an actual problem in your context. So is the argument that there is a reason all the "big mills" do it that way, and so by extension paint steppers as some sort of half-measure - the reason the big mills use servos has more to do with the fact they are well, big. Notice that most small high-accuracy devices use steppers regardless of cost. Scale matters here.

The difference between mill and router usually is more a generalization about their intended function than anything. Routers just generally run toward larger envelopes, faster running, lighter materials, and to hold less tolerance than a mill. Routers often are of the gantry type and mills usually aren't, but that isn't even always a good measure to make the distinction.

Linear ball races are a form of linear bearing, and don't have anything to do with ballscrews. In your example the IMS axis actually uses a traditional screw, but runs back and forth using a simple ball-bearing containing tube on the linear shafting, as opposed to a traditional solid bronze bushing.

Finally, resolution is just as much of a joke as you suspect. It is simply the distance traveled for each incremental step. Take the screw pitch times the microstep increment and you have it. Carve a thread onto a stick with a pocketknife while drunk, and as long as you just rotate it a really small amount each step, you get resolution in the millionths! As you can tell, it doesn't mean jack, but it sure sounds impressive. Dealers often use resolution numbers when the real numbers that count - accuracy and repeatability - don't come out looking quite so hot.... ;)

Hope this helps. A lot of the answers might be different if you were looking larger, higher budget, production environment, etc. but for what you want there isn't any real cost/benefit for going fancy. The differences are minor at best within the envelope, materials, and work you need to accomplish.

Wow, stepper monkey, that was REALLY helpful! :banana:

Thanks.

What exactly does everyone mean by an "acme screw"? I get that the acme screw has more threads per inch, but is there an actual "acme" screw company? The only acme I know of is the Warner Bros. "A Company that Makes Everything" gag...

That explains the Vivaek: it's probably designed to be reliable and fast for semi-production runs, exactly what would be needed in a labor intensive chinese factory. I guess if you were making 1000's of "carved" jewelry boxes for export to the US, this is exactly the machine you'd want. The ball screws keep it working long term, and the rest of the machine is just good enough to do the job fast and cheap.

For me then, I'll probably go with a lead screw/stepper motor/small mill configuration. Slow and steady wins the race for me. So I'll look closely at Sherline/Taig/Sieg; especially the 2026ER as it is only $2155, so that may be my baby.

Regardless, I think "tried and true" is better for me than "buy and hope..."

:withstupi Got that right buddy!

Now I can clearly see why it only weighs in @ 210. That's a REALLY wimpy looking table casting! :eek:

I believe you're right about it being a table-top router. Nevertheless, it looks like it would be very nice for machining anything non-metalic, such as plastics or wood. Haven't seen any plastic injection molds made out of plastic or wood though. ;)

An ACME thread is a typical square thread (not sharp or pointed like standard screw threads) and are used on machine tools (lathes, mills, etc.). Most all manual mills & lathes will utilize acme leadscrews, although I have seen a couple Bridgeport type mills that have ballscrews. No ACME screw company that I'm aware of. Wyle E Coyotee probably knows for sure though. ;)
Ballscrews serve you much better on a CNC for many reasons, not the least of which is negligible backlash. This is an issue with my super-budget X2 CNC conversion. My steppers aren't powerful enough to allow me to ride the brake, so backlash becomes a much bigger issue. I'm just playing though, so I don't need ballscrews or bigger motors.... yet.

Here's a turn-key converted X2 mill, but it's priced @ a rather hefty $3500 (not worth it, imho)
http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X2.asp


There's 2 prices on that linked page. The $2395 price would be a more fair comparison to other desktop solutions.


cwm9
Here's a bit more reading material.
http://www.tormach.com/FAQs.html
Page down to their reasoning for choosing steppers. The meat is in the pdf document. Some of what's there is sales talk but there's some useful info as well.

Not suggesting a Tormach, you just sharing some info. Although a Tormach would be a lovely bit of overkill :)

I hadn't seen that cnc x2, is this new? I just got my mill like a week ago, and well, that would suck...either way, I noticed that the cnc kit is an option.Then again, I am not in a hurry at all. I still need to get some manual mileage out of it just to get the hang of it things. I don't see the parts pictures and listing, so I'll wait until they show that. It looks clean, but who knows. I'm sure you still have to check it like any other. Loose screws, sharp edges and well, the basic stuff. Does anyone else have more information on this kit from sieg. I would like to see it. There's a pdf for the controller, but not much else regarding motor specs, etc.

One last thing, the picture shows everything in the metric version, I hope they will have that choice here too. I can work on either, but hey we should be able to choose what we like right?

Ok, I think I've chosen. Any comments?

$1105 2019CR-ER with Nema 23 motor mounts, adjustable bronze leadscrew nuts, and upgraded 1/4 horse power motor . Does not include stepper motors or control system.

$460.00 Xylotex 4 Axis Drive Box with 425 oz.in. Motors and Cables

Total price: $1565

Can the motor later be upgraded for more power, or is it limited due to the drive belt?

Thanks!

-Chiem

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37742

KDN Tool. Nuff said.

I don't see the parts pictures and listing, so I'll wait until they show that.
Yep, the X2 kit info is sparse at SyilAmerica. Syil has dealers in several countries, so maybe a better description on another site? If all else fails contact a dealer.


Does anyone else have more information on this kit from sieg.
Sieg is a supplier to Syil. Seperate companies. Sieg has their own in-house cnc project(s). So many new cnc products coming out it's hard keeping track of who's who :) . Good news for small scale cnc enthusiasts. Syil has their own forum here at cnczone btw.

One last thing, the picture shows everything in the metric version, I hope they will have that choice here too. I can work on either, but hey we should be able to choose what we like right?
Which metric parts? With cnc the unit of measure for the moving parts isn't much concern. A machine can be setup in whatever units are convenient. The program code takes care of unit calculations after initial machine setup. My cnc machine is setup in inches but metric parts are np.

$460.00 Xylotex 4 Axis Drive Box with 425 oz.in. Motors and Cables
You don't want the 425's. The Xylotex website has a good explanation of why. The 269's look like a good choice. Maybe a Taig owner has another perspective.

My Xylotex combo has given good service. Use it carefully and it should go a long time. Disconnect a motor under power and it will self destruct. Something to consider before buying.


Can the motor later be upgraded for more power, or is it limited due to the drive belt?
The ease of swapping out the motor looks like a nice Taig feature. Again, I don't own a Taig so take this fwiw.

You might want to hold up on the electronics. The Zylotex controller is about to be superseded in a month or so by the WAY better, more powerful and more compact mini-Gecko G540. It's an almost unkillable breakout board/controller combo that will revolutionize CNC conversion as we know it. Chances are, you will not be ready to order for a month anyway.

CR.

Here's a turn-key converted X2 mill, but it's priced @ a rather hefty $3500 (not worth it, imho)
http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X2.asp


If you want a real eye-opener check syilamerica's ebay listings. $1799 for the x2 including Mach3 license. $2399 for the x2 with bundled sofware (bobcad, etc). And that's buy-it-now, presumably offers welcome. Just spotted this while looking for other fleabay items. Are the syilamerica website prices for the barefoot pilgrims? Makes you wonder. Might return to edit the info after some more investigation.

No attempt to dissuade a Taig purchase, just clearing up some possible pricing confusion.

Edit/ And here's a listing with some more at the bottom of the page. The seller has made very few sales through ebay. Confusing. Maybe there's a catch?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bench-Top-CNC-Mini-mill-X2-Rapid-Prototype-in-House_W0QQitemZ170216101204QQihZ007QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That's the way to go there. with the motors, belt kit standard, license and a "tweaked" system, I wouldn't pass that up.

Man, I feel like a kid and a candy store...I'm enjoying reading your posts. And for the Physcicisttttt......man, I can't spell anymore...since I just got both my mill from HF and mini lathe from micro-mark. I was also looking for the smaller, but not the smallest machines, which is why I went with the mini mill and the 7x14 mini lathe. These are the smaller machines before you get into the really heavy stuff. I'm talking about weight here. Big machines, do great stuff, I just like stuff I can move on my own if I need to. So I got enough for the small stuff I would like to machine, but still a bit more for maybe a few slightly larger items that I can put on them as well. Also, adding all this stuff (cnc motors, controller, etc) later does get up there, so now that they are coming out with the whole setup with those prices, they do seem even more attractive, along with the new Gecko stuff. So what I'm trying to say is that since I bought the non cnc stuff, looking at these other options is looking good with regards to pricing as well. So you may not have to stick with the smallest machine there is. Give yourself some room, you'll thank yourself later if you get a slightly larger piece to machine. Just my 2 cents from what I have experienced.

On a side note, I was looking at the mm plate on one of their pictures. I know you can use whatever we want under cnc, imperial or metric. Do keep in mind that there is a learning curve for both, the manual machining and the cnc stuff. Not impossible, but will take a little time just like anything else. I can't wait to see more inside pictures of that new cnc x2.

The 3.4" y travel on the SyilAmerica x2 is a close to a deal killer for me. I really don't like that number. I really am more happy with the 5.5" y travel of the Micro Mill, unless there is something I'm not aware of.

The Micro Mill seems like a good match for me: long travels, ability to cut steel slowly if I want it to, comes CNC ready, has ACME screws which are probably more appropriate for my once-a-week use rates...

Several people seem to prefer the x2; is there a reason why? From my point of view ATM it doesn't seem to offer much more than decreased travel distance and an increased pricetag?...

I read another post that claimed that the x1 column can flex under load, which makes it inappropriate for steel cutting. (See post 9 @ http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20228)

As for a larger mill like the x3 -- that is out of the question. I live in Hawaii and houses are EXPENSIVE -- $400K for 600 sq. ft.... Since I haven't struck it rich yet in my inventing (I'll get there someday!), this thing is going into one corner of my kitchen in a force-ventilated Lexan enclosure.

The Gecko suggestion looks great! I did think the Zylotex looked a little... (I hope the owner of the company isn't reading...) low end?

So I'm thinking...

Taig Micro Mill, ordered tomorrow w/ 6-8 week delivery +
Gecko drivers ordered when they are ready, and probably here before the Taig gets here +
Still have to find good steppers for the combo

The electronics are no bother to me... but I'm clueless as to how difficult mechanical assembly will be. I'm sort of expecting with a CNC ready unit that I basically bolt the motors to the motor mounts and... that's it? Attaching steppers to the CNC-Ready Taig isn't all that hard, is it?

Six Weeks? Well, if you've got THAT much time, Lots of developers who previously used Zylotex, are formulating packages around the Gecko 540. One of the BEST is Tom Caudle of CandCNC:

http://candcnc.com/

I'm sure he will have the best G540 package, and it might be ready by the time you need it. THEN, you would only have to bolt on the steppers and plug in the cables. He can also give you a deal on the Mach3 software.

CR.

Have you got your computer lined up? You will need something in the 1.5 GHZ & up category. The faster the better. You will want to run Windows XP--Vista is still too buggy.

Tiger Direct has some nice off lease desktops for about $250--with a one year guarantee:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1901415&CatId=2646

They come with keyboard & mouse--Just add a monitor.

CR.

Have you got your computer lined up?

Yes, that part is not a problem. (3 Ghz, 4GB, 2TB HD, Core Duo, XP)

The travel on my mini mill seems a bit short. I'm not sure if the ballscrews and cnc will help with that or not. Hopefully the guys can help with this, for me too. My father also thought I should have gotten the larger x3 after we saw it in person, but I hate moving stuff, and even the mini mill is till not light either. If you ever need a mini lathe, the 7x14 feels great. If you don't have anything, the little extra room feels just right. Maybe someday I'll upgrade to the larger stuff, but I'm learning a lot from these two as they are and you can't go wrong when your heart just feels happy about the choice you made.

Man, if I knew, I would of taken a plane to Hawaii myself with that thing. I have always wanted to visit! :) Maybe I'll visit you someday. I have never been there, but I hear all the great stuff about it though. The really funny thing, you say the houses are costly...hmmm I really don't want to buy where the volcanos can bury me anyway, heheh...

The travel on my mini mill seems a bit short. I'm not sure if the ballscrews and cnc will help with that or not....

Don't get double ball nuts--They will reduce travel by at least one inch.

CR.

Original Poster
Point taken. Apologies for my part in the thread hi-jack.


Several people seem to prefer the x2; is there a reason why? From my point of view ATM it doesn't seem to offer much more than decreased travel distance and an increased pricetag?...
I do like the X2's extra heft. The limited y travel is a bit of a pain. My machine struggles with steel but would likely out perform a Taig in this material. Note my machine is a DIY, not a Syil. Some rigidity mods in current config.
A lot of x2 owners enjoy modifying their machines. A modders dream in some ways. A non-modders nightmare possibly? In the opinion of some.

but I'm clueless as to how difficult mechanical assembly will be. I'm sort of expecting with a CNC ready unit that I basically bolt the motors to the motor mounts and... that's it? Attaching steppers to the CNC-Ready Taig isn't all that hard, is it?
Nema 23's are the most common for this class of mill. Wouldn't expect any issues.

Point taken. Apologies for my part in the thread hi-jack.

... oh my!

No, I didn't think you had hijacked the thread at all, it seemed quite reasonable to me. When I went back and read what I wrote it did seem kind of rude, so I edited the post and deleted that line. If I thought you'd hijacked the thread I'd just have told you to get your own... ;) I already got 95% of the help I need... Anyway...

That's great news that it shouldn't be that hard to add the motors, that makes me more and more confident.

I thought if I used table alignment dowels to line up my work pieces I could even turn them 180 to effectively double the y-range to about 11" for non-critical work... (e.g., when my wife inevitably asks me to mill her new kitchen cabinets out of raw wood...) Most of the parts I need to machine in aluminum will be pretty small, maybe 3" long by 2" wide.

The fact that the Z travel is .5" longer than the Y travel is great, because it means I can rotate the piece 90 degrees and keep milling.

I'm getting more and more confident this is my unit unless someone comes up with a good major argument in favor of an X2 or other machine.

I think it only remains to be seen if their standard shipping is cheaper or if would be better to ship FOB via DHL Hawaiian Express.

There are some upgrades available for Taig mills. They make this nice Tool plate for the X axis:

http://www.peck-polymers.com/store/Category.asp?Cguid={B6BFCB2B-1797-4729-8930-DAE783362CB4}&Category=ToolingPlate%3ATaig


They also make a very expensive 16 inch Z extension and a large Y extension. Of course, for the cost of these, you could buy an entire X3 mill From Grizzly.

CR.

Xylotex boards work fine, they are pretty rudimentary, but they are where most of us started and a lot of people never even find the need to upgrade. There are better systems out there if you want to spend more money, and there are new options coming in the same price range (the Gecko boards will raise the bar for what a "basic" board is shortly) if you want to wait a bit. But there is certainly nothing wrong with the Xylotex choice.
Those huge steppers are an awful fit for a Taig sized mill, though. Wrong speed/torque curve entirely. Bad fit for the mill and for the board, too, as a Xylotex won't even properly drive them. 250/oz range is a much better balance of speed and power for that combo.

As for the spindle drive motor, the belt size doesn't limit you until you get well over 1/2 HP, so there is a lot of room there to play. While perfectly functional for most, the only real weak spot in the whole Taig package is the included AC motor, and the reason for it's inclusion was simply in keeping with price point. DC motors will offer you better power/weight ratios and speed control, but at a much higher cost. There are however several simple DIY bolt-on replacement options using scrounged surplus motors and/or electronics to solve that problem yourself very cheaply if you feel the need to upgrade later. There are a few threads on here about that.

.

I saw the Romaxx WD-1 and the IMService Servo units... These seemed to be in my price range. I wasn't sure if these were any good, or if they could even be used for aluminum... Also they're in my size range (tabletop).

included?


I have the Romaxx HS1 and very happy with it. Ron has been ask a few times if his machines can handle aluminum see his response here:

http://romaxxcnc.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=support&action=display&thread=80

Give Ron a ring, he is easy to talk to and no BS involved.

IMO opinion the HS1 would have no problem in cutting aluminum with light cuts. The only thing to watch for is the electronics are located in a pull out drawer under the table. Any stray bit of metal might short something out. I don’t thank it would take much to put some type of protective shield around it tho.

I’m eyeing his new WD-1, it would make a nice addition to my HS-1.

Give Ron a ring, he is easy to talk to and no BS involved.

Thanks. I did already; here was his response:

Hello,

If you are wanting to machine molds from aluminum billet, you'd actually need a milling machine.

Thanks, Ron

You were right -- no bs! For anyone that wants an excellent router solution for mainly wood applications and OCCASIONAL light cut runs in aluminum (as per his statement in the link you gave), I'd say he's a good bet. He's certainly honest.

[I noticed that your questions about the Taig/Microproto went unanswered; I'll try to clear up the distinctions between the two models.]

How much would a Taig Micro Mill run me if converted to CNC w/servos? w/steppers? (I understand stepper motors can loose steps?)

[Not too many people run servos on a Taig, although it can be done. Flashcut offers a turnkey retrofit package, but it's not cheap. If you're good at this sort of thing, you can put together a servo system yourself; a good driver to start with is the Gecko 320 drive. Yes, steppers can lose steps if overdriven or improperly tuned, but once you dial them in they generally work pretty well.]

I see there's a microproto product that says it is a CNC micromill... http://www.microproto.com/MMDSLS.htm Is that really the same mill with the same capabilities only CNC?

I'm a little confused because the microproto site lists the MicroMill DSLS 3000 price as $2995, where as the Taig site lists a 2026ER CNC mill price as $2155... but they look like the exact same machine! eh?

[There are some differences: the 2026 has a shorter travel in X (10" vs. 12") and the DSLS 3000 uses a different control system, with encoders on the stepper motors that feed back positional information to the drives. If it falls behind more than (I believe) 8 half-steps, it will trigger a "limit switch" error that stops motion, which can save your part (although the original zero position will be lost). The 3000 goes faster than the 2026 (about twice as fast) and it also comes with a relay box that turns the spindle on and off from a M3/M5 command, as well as one additional AC receptacle also controlled by a relay (M8/M9). It also includes a license for Mach3, the highly-regarded Windows-based CNC control software.]

...



As to the Vivaek, I went and read the thread... everyone wants to know if anyone has tried them yet. I did some research, and here's what I found:

They appear to be importing this:
http://www.cnlike.com/en_ProductShow.asp?ArticleID=117

Vivaek has internal photos up at: http://site.vivaek.com/cnc_pictures.html

The Vivaek comes with ball screws. I don't know how high quality they are, but the manufacturer web site states .01mm/.0004" The Sherline and Taig come with leadscrews, which I understand to be less accurate and not to last as long.

[The Taig (and Sherline) leadscrews are actually pretty good; ballscrews are harder to make accurately, and tend to have more "drunkeness" - variability in the pitch. It's commonly stated that ballscrews will eliminate backlash, but that's not always true; it takes some preloading to accomplish that.]

Is the difference between a mill and a router unit that the mill has a head driven by a belt and a router unit is directly driven by a motor?

[No; the main difference is the intended use. Mills are designed for removing metal; routers are intended for softer materials. Mill spindles have more torque and go slower; router spindles go a lot faster, but have poor torque at low RPMs.]

If that's the case then I assume the Vivaek is really a desktop router (it actually says that on the manufacturers website), and the ball screws may be... inappropriately accurate compared to the rest of the build?

[Maybe, maybe not.]

Regardless, I think "tried and true" is better for me than "buy and hope..."

[The 30-day warranty doesn't seem to show a lot of confidence on their part... Taig includes a 2-year warranty with their mills. Of course, if you put a third-party control on it, the warranty won't cover that, and you'll have to get tech support from whoever sold it to you.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com