Now I need a little help. I don't have them yet, but my first question is this:
1. The mini mill uses an R8 spindle I believe and the lathe uses and MT3 and MT2.

2. Should I convert the mill to an MT3 or the lathe to an R8 which I don't know if it can be done?

3. Any help is appreciated since I just want to buy one set of tools to use between the two, the collet set for example. I'm new at this so I'm not sure which one is more affordable cost option in the long run. Thanks.

4. Has anyone used the http://www.probotix.com/ CNC motor kits? They look very nicely organized and I'm looking at complete kits instead of mixing and trying to match things. I just don't know how good these are.

Note: I ordered the HF just because I could drive over to the store and it was less than on-line, plus I figured if I cnc it, I still have to change the leads screws. This is why I didn't get both from Micro-Mark. I got their lathe, just because I couldn't find the 7x14 anywhere else. Not cheap so if anyone has any other links, let me know in case my brothers decide to get something later. I did find that toolsnow has the same mill for like $100 less than HF in case anyone else is looking. Now I'm still waiting for both.

Hey jaime,
Leave the mill and lathe as is.
R8 is an industry standard for tooling and you'll
find plenty of cheap tooling for the mill using it.
MT3 and MT2 are standards for lathes and are held in place
just by forcing the tool into the head or tailstock by hand.
They usually come with a tang on the end to keep it from spinning.
MT's for mills are tangless and threaded for a drawbar.
R8's use a drawbar to hold them in place.

You can find cheaper complete CNC kits at Kelinginc (http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23Package.html) for less money than the
ones at Probotix.
Option C CNC package at Keling with (3) 425 oz/in motors= $359
3 Axis Monster at probotix with (3) 400 oz/in motors = $410
The drivers used on the Keling are great and they have lightning fast shipping.
Hoss

Well, I do like the fact that their systems cost less and the motors have a bit more goodness in them. Also, I am in the states so that helps very much too. Just so you know, your hoss.com link doesn't work, but the .info does. I'll take a look at their stuff a bit more.

Any other links to an affordable cnc mounting kit. I looked at the cncfusion which looks great, but also costs more than the actual mill and I still have to buy the tooling and well, I'm sure it will make more sense to me when I get them and have them in front of me. So not much budget left, but I would like to look into cnc for this later. Now I know that R8 is used by the bridgeports which have been around for a long time. I went to their site to see what the machines use now. Now I know why that is a standard. I was looking at the quick connect collet kits from grizzly, but they have both the R8 and MT and they are not cheap, this is why I was also asking, but I'll keep your suggestion in mind. I'll come back and bug you guys again when I get things set up and maybe get some pictures for other newbies to see what they get when you first make a purchase for these two items.

Note: Scanning through your pages, I noticed you still have the handle left on it...that I like very much and the cncfusion kit removes it. I may have to take a closer look at them. You got a lot of great info, so I'll be reading all night again...hehe...

Little Machine Shop has a good collet set (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2030&category=1963256888) to get you going and it's only $39.

I purchase a R8 collet set off Ebay from a Ebay seller. And im VERY HAPPY with it.
Give it a look on Ebay and you might like it for your Harbor Fright X2 mill? Ebay item 350052050881. Its just what Im using on my X2.
And I won it for less than the one sold on Little Machine Shop web site.
Hope this helps You?

I will keep all this in mind...So far I'm just getting owl eyes from all the reading I have been doing for the last two weeks. This stuff is just too interesting to me right now because I know what is possible with the cnc. I already have one projet to machine. It's the thumb joystick for a wireless keyboard that broke the first time I dropped it. It's held by a screw, but nothing a machine piece of stock can't fix now. I guess the waiting for these things is one of the longest waits, aside from learning all of this stuff.

Okay, not really, I had to pick up my mill today. I've been cleaning it up and I'm trying to take out the chuck. Just getting familiar with the whole thing before I even plug it in.

Can someone tell me how to take that damn chuck out. It looks like it's really stuck in there. I took out the top bolt, tapped the darn thing with a rubber hammer, but nothing. Am I not doing something right?

Do I have to loosen the top nut too? The one that it's a backwards thread or left hand I guess. That was a pain in the butt.

Hi Jaime! You don't take OUT the drawbar. You only loosen it a couple of turns. Then tap the top of the draw bar with a hammer until the chuck loosens. Now you can remove the drawbar and the chuck.

The Grizzly manual is better than the HF one:

http://www.grizzly.com/images/manuals/g8689_m.pdf

CR.

You might also find THESE helpful:

Mini mill user's guide:

http://littlemachineshop.com/Info/MiniMillUsersGuide.pdf

Mini Lathe user's guide

http://littlemachineshop.com/Info/MiniLatheUsersGuide.pdf

CR.

I found this posting as well which is where I realized you should use a regular hammer not the rubber hammer. Lightly hit it and it's all good. The inside had a bit of rust were the screw goes so I WD40 the whole thing now and will leave it off for the night. I'm not feeling well so I'll call it a night. Tomorrow I'll check the wiring and electrical before I plug it in for the first time. I also added grease on the motor gear because the little they added wasn't even on the gears. It's also comes with the plastic gear and the housing bolts were loose all around. So check this so that your gears mesh just right, not too lose or too tight. This may be why some also brake aside from trying to cut too much. Just my educated guess right now. And yes, the HF manual is useless. Fortunately my dad and I have both been learning today. He's never used one either so it's been good for both of us.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=414589

Okay, I checked the wires today and they all looked fine so I plugged the mill and and turned it on and left if running on the slow side for a couple of minutes to let the brushes and things settle a bit. I later tested both low and high gears, everything seems to work fine on that end. Unfortunately I noticed theres a slight wobble or the chuck doesn't seem to be turning evenly I guess is the other way to describe it. I took the chuck off and the drawbar to make sure that's not bent or anything, but I could still see just a bit of that on the spindle and the left hand nut. How the heck do I fix this. I'm pretty sure it's not my eyes, still got 20/20. I was also able to make my first hole on a piece of wood and it was straight, but I can still see this a bit when I stare at the top left hand nut straight from the front.

In any case, I just find this annoying and I hope there's a simple way to fix this other than having to repack this thing and take it back to the store. Not to mention I might end up with the same thing again. I also got my mini lathe today and I got two boxes from Micro-Mark. One is the mini lathe and the other is the accessories box. Seems to have a lot of stuff. I haven't open it yet. I need to get my mill setup finished and ready for well, anything.

Jaime128, if you ever decide to convert your mill to MT3, give me a shout - I just bought an MT3 equipped mini mill which I want to convert to R8 ;)

Removing the drawbar cap and a little tightening of the spindle nut may take care of that run out for you.

CR.

I already tried tightening the nut, but I still see a bit of that. Still trying to figure out if it's the spindle itself. Are there any other suggestions that can be done other than taking it apart or do I need to replace the R8?

Issac, I think I'm going to leave it alone, but I'll let you know if I do. Still playing with the setup. I just got my lathe almost set up too, so I'm having quite a learning experience from both. The one thing missing on these pieces of hardware is quality control. Once I can get through these, I think the hardware will be okay, but can't say until then.

Import drill chucks are a crap shoot when it comes to runout, most are pretty crappy though.
Removing it from the R8 holder(it should have a taper that holds it on) cleaning and reinstalling it may help, otherwise get a quality chuck like Jacobs.
The spindle should be checked for runout with an R8 collet and a piece of drill rod or anything round and true.
the inside could be perfect (less than .001) but the outside could be off giving you the illusion it's bad.
Hoss

Hey Hoss, well, the chuck looks like a really decent part. Something that has JT33 on it, but what do I know. I think it may be the run out because when I take the chuck off, I still see a bit of that slight movement and the hole I made was straight as I could tell.

How do you check the runout? I have no idea. I already tried making it a bit tighter, but didn't do much. I'll put in the end mill holder I bought. I stopped by LMS(LittleMachineShop) for those who don't know what LMS is. It took me a while to figure this out. If you haven't read the threads it won't make sense to you. I picked up a couple of things to get me started from them, the guys are great over there.

If you like puzzles, get a clamping kit. I think I still need something else to clamp a plate...darn it...hehe

Hoss, I took a closer look at the chuck and well, you're right, they are not right. Since I have the lathe almost cleaned, I decided to put that chuck on it and spin it to see if I could see the difference. I also turned the other spindle I got for some cutters and they both look a bit lump sided. So It looks like the tool holder may be okay since the hole I made was straight, even thought the chuck didn't look like it was spinning right.

By the way, is there a small vise to hold a 150 or 150mm plate? I think this is like an almost 6" inch wide plate. It's something I need to mill but I'm not sure what to use in order to hold it square. I got the clamp kit, but that thing goes all over the place. I noticed most small vices for this machine only open to about 3 or 4" so any help with this will be great. Thanks.

Note to self: Find sears and look for a dial gauge to check this stuff...

I created a posting for the lathe in the mini lathe section just to keep things organized

I think you already figured out you need an indicator to check the runout
either a dial indicator or a test indicator.
Here's a video on Youtube to show how to check it.
Runout Check

I'm a big fan of tooling plates for mounting all my parts.
I use a couple of pins to line one side up parallel (or perpendicular) with the axis.
place some scrap stock or parallels underneath and clamp it down.
LMS (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2708&category=) sells a couple that would fit the X2.
I rarely use a chuck anymore. They take up a lot of Z.
Hoss

I've been trying to get creative with the clamp set, but no luck since I still don't have parallels and well, any other tools for this two machines. I stopped by sears yesterday, but they only had a crappy dial, so I only got me a scriber that I need to mark the plate. I'll check a bigger store today and see what they got.

You're right again, damn chuck takes all the space. I just realized I can use that other tool holder I got, just kill two problems with one shot. Don't need to get a new chuck and now I can get more z room, and third...no need to change the tool holder for a bit...cool. I had to go to the machine and verify this, but nope, the drill is too small, the nut won't go all the way in to hold the drill bit. I'm sure a smaller one will do. You do gain a lot of z this way though. I bought a set of center drills, but just can't find them now...man...

I decided to take some readings with my new digital dial. I checked the flatness and the runout. The table is very flat which is great, just got a bit of change towards the end on the right side. About .001" to .002", almost two or .01mm and I get that same number for the spindle so that looks better than I thought for the overall mill. I was expecting this to go way off, but it looks good. I still haven't taken the sharpness of it off either. The digital gauge works great too.

Has anyone seen smaller controllers by any chance. What I've seen looks like the older white computer boxes. I guess this stuff hasn't kept up much. Just a big box in all flavours vanilla...I sure hope I'm wrong about this...I guess I just don't want another ugly big box sitting next to a mill that just happens to be smaller than the controller itself...

I thought I cut this plate I have to shorten it a bit. I used the dial to square this on the clamps. The gauge works great, but the clamping can be a pain. The 6 inch vices seem way too big and this is about that size so I did what I could for my fist chipping job.I had a slight vibration, but a nice slow steady turning did the job. I really hate the chips all over the place, so the shop vac does a great job. I don't like just blowing all the chips all over the place. What can I say. I need to go to Home Depot and see what I can find to try and keep the chips on the table as much as possible. Enjoy...

can someone tell me what the problem with the column is? I just read something about that on that other posting, but I haven't seen anything about any column problems. I also haven't bolted mine down so that may also add just a tiny bit to the vibrations. Oh yeah, so far, nothing broke after the first use on both the mill and the lathe. :)

Has anyone seen smaller controllers by any chance. What I've seen looks like the older white computer boxes. I guess this stuff hasn't kept up much. Just a big box in all flavours vanilla...I sure hope I'm wrong about this...I guess I just don't want another ugly big box sitting next to a mill that just happens to be smaller than the controller itself...

I'm guessing you mean the electronic controller for the stepper motors? The New Gecko G540, which is a breakout board with 4 tiny 50 V 3.5A Geckos on it (Although not yet available.) should be the smallest controller yet. All you have to do is connect DC power, your stepper motor cables, and a cable from your computer parallel port.

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51083

CR.

You're right, that's what I meant, the controller. I figured I learn more about this stuff while I get used to using my machines manually which I don't mind. I went to the geckodrive.com site, but you're right, no pictures or specs for us to see. I haven't gone through that whole posting so it looks interesting. I wonder how much these thing are going to cost though.

no pictures or specs for us to see. I haven't gone through that whole posting so it looks interesting. I wonder how much these thing are going to cost too.

Pics and specs are THERE. The G540 is made up of 4 of the cheap drives built onto a breakout board, so cheap drives must come first. THEY are probably at least a month off. The G540 has a target price of $250 to $300. THREE of the G250 drives will cover a credit card--So you can imagine how small the G540 is. Probably 2-3 months off. If you are not in a hurry, this would be an excellent way to go.

The entire controller would consist of a G540 and a power supply. And the G540 looks to be "unkillable" like the Gecko vampire drives.

CR.

I got tired of the big boxes, with anything pretty much which is why I also got these machines and hopefully will be able to make my own little boxes for whatever I need. Okay, I'm heading to the book store to look for a good machining book with lots of pictures so I can at least get my basics right. :) I don't want to get a bunch of books, just something that covers the basic stuff nicely organized. In other works, I'm going to look through books to see what looks better that I can learn from. I got my dad excited about this stuff too so I have to make sure he can learn from this too. I used these machines in college, but he had never used one so it's kind of neat. I'm actually showing him something new. We're both learning so it's cool, plus I'm out of work, so I'm two machines deep now and thought I just keep learning. And no, I am not in a hurry to buy anything either so I got plenty of time to read up on the Gecko stuff. I'm still reading that posting you gave me. It's going to be a long night...hehe

I hope they get some setup pictures of this stuff on their website. I think it just helps us newbies get a better idea of their uses and maybe even give us one or two for our own setups.

I stopped by one of the Harbor Freight stores earlier today and they had the X3 on display which I was really surprised to see...in case anyone wants to see one in person. I haven't seen any of the x2 or x3's in any of the stores at all. I they have the micro mill and mini lathe. I asked the guy if they had any tools for the lathes and he said they only have cutters. I only saw a set of cutters.

Also, newbies, keep in mind that even with the mini mills, you need to find a place to put them on, plus tooling, plus a place to work on. Man, this stuff takes a bit or room, so for anyone else considering the x3 which is like 300lbs, I don't know where you guys are putting those things in. Then again, I'm poor, so this is just me. This stuff gets very expensive quickly once you start adding the tooling! But I will be making chips even if it's just for no reason...

Now I have a couple of questions...I found a couple of lose screws, figured out how to use gibs, or at least what they do. As you'll see, one doesn't actually have threads and is a pain., I kept dropping the damn thing.

1. I noticed one side of the table has Phillips on the left side, and hex on the right, do all of you have the same thing? I like the hex, one of the screws didn't want to go all the way in until I lean on it a bit. It's harder to use a screw driver on these than a hex key. I don't use T handles either, just the hex sockets. Already had these so they work great for both the mill and the lathe.

2. I noticed that the y screw holder, not sure what you call it, wasn't tapped and wasn't aligned straight. Although, now it's not as smooth as when it was a bit sideways. Maybe I just over tighten the lower gibs a bit much, will check that again tomorrow.

3. What kind of pitch gauges are used for lead screws or ball screws? I got the mechanics pitch gauges, but I noticed the lead screws have a flat surface and these gauges are not flat. They have a sharp point so they don't go into these groves. Okay, I know this is a newbie question, but I just don't know what they have for these. Thanks.

Here are the pictures I took after taking this apart, sanding the sharp edges and making sure things where good. Oh yeah, I had to use the grinder for the gibs on the not finished holes, they were sharp edges all around so it wasn't sitting flat...I then sanded them with the 600 paper. Just a tiny bit, not a lot, but they're much better now.

I decided to get some metal stock today and well, I also broke my first bit when I was almost finished on my second project. This was the first time I used this bit. I don't have anything to cut like a miter saw or anything else for that matter, so I decided to use the mill to get a nice straight cut on this piece of aluminum. I'm making a longer push rod for a can crusher I got, but it won't squash the cans because the push rod is a bit short. So might as well, get some practice on something.

I got this metal stock here:
http://www.imsmetals.com/
They got so much stuff, it was pretty neat. Just wear something to protect your hands, I didn't see baskets or anything to carry stuff, small stuff, so this will come in handy

What speed do you guys cut this aluminum at, and what type of tool bit do you use. Mine just feels a bit fragile. I used the smallest high speed bit I had, since I'm not trying to cut down the size of the aluminum, just cut it in half. Any other ideas, do post. Thanks.

From the looks of it I'd say a lack of coolant/oil was the cause.
Aluminum is easy to cut but it helps to use something to keep it from 'welding'
to the cutting bit.
Aluminum can be cut dry but you have to take very light cuts and
use a constant air blast to cool the bit and blow away the chips.
Use WD-40, Silicone spray lubricant, motor oil, anything similar to keep the bit loosey goosey.:)
Run the spindle as fast as she'll go too.
This portable bandsaw (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42707) from Harbor Freight is a cheap alternative to a floor model (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93762)
to cut up your stock.
I got mine on sale for $59.
Hoss

So when you say as fast as it can go, do you mean in low or high gear? You're right, this is something I'm still trying to figure out on this machine. Sorry, they both have a low and a high, but I used the low and went to about midrange, but had to back it up a bit. I was going slow since I got the hang of it a bit last time with the plate, and I even backed off when I felt the cutter not moving smoothly. I also looked at it straight ahead and did notice the bit flex a tiny bit. I'm trying to stay on the dry side just because I don't want more of a mess to clean up. I had a feeling the smaller bit might have a problem, but I guess this shouldn't have been too bad. I'll go get a new bit tomorrow. I also need a vise, but maybe the band saw might be first since I need to cut stuff more than mill it first. Man the order of things...I gotta tell you though, I feel a heck of a lot smarter using and figuring out how to do stuff. Not that I wasn't, but machining forces you to think in other ways, there's just no way around it which is cool.

The band saw looks good, in the small size. That is one piece of machine I don't remember ever using. I know I can figure it out, but why is that thing slanted? Just for my own education here...

Yeah, high gear, speed knob all the way up.
Should give you about 2500 rpm.
Silicone spray is good, it will lube the bit as it cuts and doesn't take a lot,
just an occasional squirt to keep the mess down.
The bandsaw is slanted because it twists the blade to allow it to cut through
a long piece of stock.
If it didn't, you would only be able to cut something as wide as the throat
like with a vertical bandsaw.
I have a metal cutting blade in my vertical bandsaw (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32208) too for cutting up thin stock
but I'm limited to pieces 14 inches or less.
Hoss

I know this is not the proper way to cut it, but I just realized that it may work. I have this reciprocating saw:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00926314000P
I bought it a while back when I had to get a part for my car that had been crashed so I went and got the part myself to get my car fixed. Do you think this may work if I get some better blades (fine) and put that stock on the vise in order to cut it? I just remember I have this under my bed so I guess it doesn't hurt to try. I just haven't had to use it after that first time I needed it, so this might be perfect. This stuff is small and if I can get away with it in the meantime, I'll try it. I can then clean this cut later, plus I also have a hacksaw. I just didn't want to try cutting the long lengthwise, it would be too crooked.

Great, I think I have more use for this now. I just didn't want that battery going bad from not using it. I had no choice but to buy this or I couldn't get my car fixed. I spent a lot on this thing already but hopefully I don't need to manually hack at the stock now. This hacksaw works great by the way, I was able to get what I needed to the body shop.

Be a lot easier than hand sawing the stock.
Better to put it to use than sit collecting dust bunnies.
Hoss

That should work fine Jamie, you could then use the mill to clean it up!

Well, I got some more pictures. My first useful project. I got this six can crusher from HF, but it's useless when you get it. I found out after I got it, but like my dad said, the idea is great, but the design sucks. So I thought I keep it because I knew I could make it work, so here it is...and I finally got to play with the mill, for real this time...hehe...I hate the backlash on this thing as it is...mom likes to recycle so I thought I make myself useful. It took me like 6 hours, because I'm still getting to know this mill and I wanted to make the test one first, just to see if I could make anything.

The plastic push rod if you will, is the original. The metal bracket on the left was my wing it, no measuring, aligning or anything...one side was way to thin and I also needed to make the opening farther in for the handle to move farther. I also got my new vise, so I decided not to be lazy on the second one, and used the vise and thought I go with the larger cutting bit, but the darn bit cut into the bracket and almost mess it up so I downsized to the next one down. If you look carefully you'll see that the vise got moved in on the right side. I also used the full speed on the high the whole time to test it out, still works.So all in all, this was a good test... I also got my key less chuck from grizzly today. It's the MT2 and I got that for the lathe...will post pictures later and will let you guys know a little more...on the lathe posting...the pictures have been posted.

Update...I found it's better to take out that six can cage and manually put the cans in one at a time. It's faster too.

Nice first project! Good Job!

CR.

Now, I just have to find a place to mount it and put a big can under it. :)

Good news, the can crusher has been approved and works very well! I tested it myself and filled up half a trash can in just a few minutes. Here's an idea, if you have a lot of beer buddies and want to get those cans packed, just have a timed contest on one of these to see who's the fastest. You get more cans, and you have some fun while you're at it...very cool. :)

I don't have any table saws to cut my stock, but I do have a reciprocating saw. I went to the local hardware store and the hardest blades they had were 18 teeth, bi-metal, titanium edge. There was a 24 teeth, but I just didn't think they would be strong enough. I had to cut this 1.5"x1.5" piece of aluminum for my vise clamps. I also cut the 1"x1" for a lathe stop. I cut the fist piece too short, I didn't see the drawing correctly so I had to cut a longer piece after that. Needles to say, aluminum is not a very soft metal when you have to chop this manually! I just got a workout and broke on a slight sweat, but it's all good...here are the pictures for you newbies since I've been making the things I need because I just don't have anything. You can just purchase these, but I got nothing but time now, so might as well learn a bit more...

My suggestions for anyone in the same boat...get the 24 titanium teeth or a few more teeth if you can find them. Nothing beats the proper saw though. I think it may be easier cutting. The blade kept jumping quite a bit, so I did get a work out, but got them cut in a few minutes each...I don't know if they have anything more than the 24 teeth, but with metal, you want to go with a fine blade. Take it from me....great workout, but I don't want to do that again. Just cutting like this is a project. The last two pictures show my mistake...cut the piece way too short. Also, measure it and give yourself more room for the cut...trust me, it's easy to cut sideways using this method...:)

Can anyone suggest a nice face mill for these. My largest end mill if from a small kit, so it's like half an inch in size...I think it's actually smaller, just haven't bother to check, but It won't cover a large area. I had to so several passes so I do need a better one. I only have the 3/8 end mill holder right now.

A simple flycutter (http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/37943/nm/Individual_Fly_Tool_Cutter) is about the cheapest tool for milling the surfaces.
You can't take a very deep cut with it, maybe .025, but it will do the job and the stock mill should handle it OK.
Here's some blank bits (http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/37958/nm/Ground_Square_Tool_Bit) for it.
Or pick thru some carbide tipped (http://www.wttool.com/category-exec/category_id/12861/nm/Tool_Bits_Blades) ones.
Hoss

Unless you have the belt drive conversion, a single bit flycutter is almost a guarantee for stripped gears. You can use an indexable end mill with less risk:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1952&category=

IF you HAVE the belt conversion installed, Grizzly has a nice 2 1/2 inch 4 cutter face mill that will work with light cuts:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g2861

CR.

The stock gears can handle more than some people would have you believe.
I used the mill with the stock gears for 2 years with no trouble.
I did finally chip a tooth when I tried using a 3 inch indexable face mill cutting cast iron.
Cutting aluminum should give you no trouble as long as you aren't forcing it.
Keep your cuts light (.025 or less) use some oil or cutting fluid and it'll go all day.
The belt conversion is a nice addition, you can get much higher RPM's and
forget about ever chipping a tooth.
Follow my free instructions here (http://www.hossmachine.info/projects_6.html#belt%20conversion) which will give about 4300 RPM max or get LMS's (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2560&category=879658189) for $120.
I've also modified the original pulley and get 6100 RPM (http://www.hossmachine.info/Videos10.html#videos59&60)now.
Hoss

I only have the 3/8 end mill holder right now.

CR.

Little Machine Shop has a good collet set (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2030&category=1963256888) to get you going and it's only $39.

This set (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1604&category=1963256888) is even cheaper to get you up and running.

I got the the first holder almost cut to the dimension...I noticed that I can get a somewhat smooth surface with the small cutter right now, but I also noticed all the edges are pretty sharp and you can see where the cutter went through, even though you can't feel it any more. So I wanted to find out what size face cutter you can put on this mill with the stock set up?

I noticed the mill says 1" face mill, but I don't see any 1" face mill cutters anywhere, just like 2-2 1/2". Am I reading this wrong or is that the shank size?

I thought it was the actual cutter diameter. So for those who have used them, what size cutter diameter can you go up to on this machine and can I also use the face cutter on steel too for example? Also, will the face cutter leave the smoother finish so I don't cut myself, or is there something else you do to finish the surface to smooth it out? Again, my edges are pretty sharp now. I know these are newbie questions, but I really haven't done any of these in like forever, so I'm just learning again.

So far I'm getting the hang of it. I like the micro feed, works fine...the machine is not perfect, but I adjust myself according to what it does...so I'm getting some pretty decent cuts I guess.

So far, it seems that not too many people like the fly cutters. Then again I figured if I can cut some 45 degree chamfers with the face mill cutter, that would be cool too.

I have looked at the belt conversion and the metal gear set...not sure what to do at this point since I'm still trying the stock machine. Just haven't decided on this. I like the direct drive on this stuff, but the gears as it is now do get pretty loud when I'm cutting, specially if I get closer to the machine. But the height is a bit on the low side too so I will eventually need to raise it some.

By the way, this was a 1.5" x 1.5" cube that I had to cut down to 1" x1" x 1.5"...so there was a lot of cutting here. So I got all the practice I want now...just takes a long time, but since I went slow most of the time, it took a while...

I got tired of chips on my right hand while cutting so I cut one of the tabs off a motor oil case box and made these chip stoppers...I need to make the right one taller...still get a few every now and then. Simple, but pretty effective though...

Basically, the manual is telling you that anything over a 1" diameter will risk stripping the plastic gears. Actually, the gears can strip with smaller tools if they dig in--Or if you leave the spindle lock rod in and power the mill.

With the belt drive, you can use the 2 1/2 inch face mill, but the harder the material, the smaller the cut depth. This mill will cut almost anything if used with common sense and a light touch. It is not going to quickly hog out steel though.

Anytime you cut down one side, you will likely produce sharp edges. Dressing those is what files are made for.

CR.

So, is that cutter from lms that one of you guys put on there an example of what I can use, it says end mill not face mill so I'm just trying to clarify? I guess I also figured I might as well do a 45 degree chamfer instead of file...might look better, but what do I know.

Also, I do get the part about going into the material too hard or too much will do a number of nasty things to pretty much anything...so I am working within its limits which I don't mind. I just want to learn to do the machining the correct way. I can work with the limits. Doing things right is an art...I just want to be good at it.
I was looking through the grizzly catalog and that's the same cutter I was looking at, just wasn't sure if it was too big or not...thanks. I still haven't decided what to get.

Hoss...
The pictures on your site are blocking the text..I use firefox with ubuntu, so I don't know if it's just me, but this is what I see on your site...and I will check out your belt conversion too. I think I'll give that a shot, should be a good project to do later. I just have to get these vise clamps right or I can't do jack.

An indexable end mill, with replaceable cutters is about as close as you can GET to a face mill, within the 1" restriction. A face mill is just a LARGER diameter tool with replaceable cutters.

Yeah, a chamfer will work just fine.

CR.

Unless you have the belt drive conversion, a single bit flycutter is almost a guarantee for stripped gears. You can use an indexable end mill with less risk:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1952&category=

IF you HAVE the belt conversion installed, Grizzly has a nice 2 1/2 inch 4 cutter face mill that will work with light cuts:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g2861

CR.

Okay, I got the 1.25" indexable end mill and man, it works! The finish is smooth, just like the small end mill I was using, but now I don't have to do three or more passes to finish the 1" diameter block. I'm sure the larger ones can work, but I'm taking the baby steps to see what I can do. Just a side note. The L hex did not quite fit the screws to change the cutters, but a bit of forcing it with a hammer will fix that. The screws are a soft material and well, from china. I might replace them later when I need to change the cutters. I'll post the pictures if my camera comes back to life.

Now, has anyone used something like this on this small mill or is this one too big?
http://lathemaster.com/BORINGHEADSETRSHANK.htm

I'm glad you like it. That's a nice boring bar set--But I have 3 words for you: Belt Drive First!

If you are DETERMINED to see how far you can push it, then at least get this spare parts kit:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1703&category=

CR.

I'm going to assume that set of gears is plastic since it doesn't say anything. For my fist project after playing around with the clamps is the belt transformation while this still works. I got the hoss belt conversion pdf for that, but I think I will need a boring set which is why I asked about that. So I'll see if I can make it, that way I'll have something by the time this thing goes belly up if I push it a bit more. I know it's not a small project, but that's what this is all about, right. I'm trying to not push it, but the gears just sound like they don't want to live that long even though I checked them to make sure they were adjusted. Other than the boring set, I think I should be able to start making something.

I do have another question...after cleaning up the 1"x1" stock, no matter how light I go, I end up with something with a couple of thousands over or under depending on how you look at it. Meaning, my end block is no longer a 1" but something like .995 for example. If I leave it at this, the hole for the pin seems that it will be outside the edge so I will have to use them vertically now instead of horizontal. I just like to clean it up, but I guess I will need something a little bigger to get the right size of 1"x1" to be exact. Even this seems a bit short for my vise so I'll just play with it to see what I can fit. I noticed that there are very light groves on the stock so if I don't clean it it's not going to be nice and flat. What size do you guys use. I know it's probably something bigger, but I'm still not familiar with all the sizes that are sold. Let me know so I can look for it next time I pick up more stock.

I also made some mistakes and had to fix them by adding more features, but well, I just had to get creative since I wasn't getting what the designs were asking for. Newbies, the vise holes were not all aligned, and my clamps are actually shorter now since I couldn't use them lengthwise, I went vertical...I think I need batteries for my camera again, so that will have to wait.

Yeah! that parts set contains plastic gears--That you will never need if you convert to belt drive.

I just realized that your situation is different from mine. A stripped gear here on the East coast would put me out of action for almost a week. YOU can probably get the parts overnight by regular shipping--so this won't be as big a deal for you.

CR.

Yeah! that parts set contains plastic gears--That you will never need if you convert to belt drive.

I just realized that your situation is different from mine. A stripped gear here on the East coast would put me out of action for almost a week. YOU can probably get the parts overnight by regular shipping--so this won't be as big a deal for you.

CR.

You're right, I'm one of the lucky few...no shipping needed for me. I can drive over to them and pick up what I need. With the gas prices though, I may need to plan that better so I don't have to keep going back and forth. This is why I don't want to buy any of the gears. Plus if I can get that conversion made before I need them, then I should be in good shape.

I don't know who all these so called "experts" predicting more for gas are, but I really need to find a solar, wind and electric mode of transportation. And the machines are just inspiring to make stuff...hehe. I may just take out my bicycle and get some workouts for now. I could use that exercise anyway. Modding one of the new kawasakis 250 to this kind of power would just be very cool though...

I feel I got almost everything I need for now. Maybe one or two more items for what I would like to do. Mainly modding the machines to make them better. So I need to get this done just to not have to worry about it later. I just need more practice machining and I will feel much better, but like anything else, that one takes time. I did manage to stall the motor twice while I was drilling out holes of all things. The machine just shut off. I had to turn the speed all the way down and restart that again. I thought I killed the controller, but it has a sort of safety on it which is nice. It just shuts off so I just had to slow down more.

...I did manage to stall the motor twice while I was drilling out holes of all things. The machine just shut off. I had to turn the speed all the way down and restart that again. I thought I killed the controller, but it has a sort of safety on it which is nice. It just shuts off so I just had to slow down more.

Are you drilling at low speed setting (High torque) or high? There is a trim pot labeled torque on the motor speed board. If this is happening at low speed, you may need to adjust this pot up.

CR.

Are you drilling at low speed setting (High torque) or high? There is a trim pot labeled torque on the motor speed board. If this is happening at low speed, you may need to adjust this pot up.

CR.

Interesting. I'm seeing 3 trimpots but no labels. 2 have some anti-tamper goop. Is it safe to assume the ungooped one adjusts torque?

Interesting. I'm seeing 3 trimpots but no labels. 2 have some anti-tamper goop. Is it safe to assume the ungooped one adjusts torque?

Hi cyclestart! On my X2, the bottom left trimpot is labeled torque on the outside edge of the PCB, the one above it is labeled speed. The one to the right of the bottom one is not labeled, but I think it is a "both" adjustment.

CR.

Caution:

Before you move ANY of these trim pots--MARK the current position. Then if all else fails, you can return to the default setting.

CR.

Well, I think I was on the high gear so I'll try that low gear next time. I just kept it at that since I was also facing and didn't even remember that low is for torque...I guess I was just too excited I got something done. I know it's not perfect, but it feels nice...like someone else said somewhere on here...you get that nice fuzzy feeling about the part you just created. And thanks for that adjustment info. I don't think I need it at the moment, but it's nice to know is there.

Okay, I got this vise I need to deepend the counterbore a little bit. it's one of the holding clamps, but I will end up doing all four counterbores. One of the old screws broke and well, they got changed, but now they stick out a bit. I tried using the hss end mill I have, but that didn't work too well, or at all. The vise I guess is steel, not sure what, but it's hard as heck. It pretty much dulled my HSS endmill cutter tips. Any end mill sugesstions from some of the vendors like grizzly, enco, msc, or whatever else you can think of? I only see hss, tin coated and carbide endmills. Thanks again.

Has anyone used one of those R8 3" end mills on the mini mill? I'm just wondering, stock or belt...either way, I just want to know if that would be too big for it or not. I've seen some around which cost less than the 2.5" that grizzly has. Just wondering if that would be a better choice.

What size boring head are you guys using on the mini mill? A 2" or 3" head. With or without the belt conversion. I'm just asking since I don't have one and never had to use one, but I would like to get one. I'm still trying to put a few more tools together so I can at least have the basics to get a bit more done with. Thanks.

Okay, I got the 1.25" indexable end mill and man, it works! The finish is smooth, just like the small end mill I was using, but now I don't have to do three or more passes to finish the 1" diameter block. I'm sure the larger ones can work, but I'm taking the baby steps to see what I can do. Just a side note. The L hex did not quite fit the screws to change the cutters, but a bit of forcing it with a hammer will fix that. The screws are a soft material and well, from china. I might replace them later when I need to change the cutters. I'll post the pictures if my camera comes back to life.

Now, has anyone used something like this on this small mill or is this one too big?
http://lathemaster.com/BORINGHEADSETRSHANK.htm

Okay, just an update. I found a similar indexable end mill like the one I bought from LMS.
For any newbies looking for something similar and for less than what I paid for the 1.25" indexable end mill. Ebay is your friend, plus they are new too. I ended up buying a second one which is a 3" indexable end mill. They also have a 2" if you don't want to go up to the 3". I recommend the larger one and be done with it for small parts. You can face smaller areas with this one I'm sure, but not larger surfaces with the small one. It cost less than the one grizzly has, plus it's also bigger by 1/2"! I take very light cuts so this should be fine on aluminum. So look around, this is the toughest challenge if you want to get some decent stuff for less. I've been studying several catalogs so I'm working on this full time (most of the time I'm up) and man, it's work! :)

You can also find yourself a brand new 3 inch precision vise for about 30 something dollars! You can't beat that. Just make sure to check the shipping before you buy though. Some make the price very low, but hike up the shipping too much so it's not worth it.

One other question, what's the difference between and ER25 and ER35 collet and well the others too? I was looking for a metric set, but apparently there's no such thing on an R8 spindle that I can find...please enlighten me here guys...thanks...

Okay, I found this place that sells some metric collets in case anyone else is looking for some. They start at the bottom of the page an continue on the next page.
http://www.shars.com/product_categories/search/?search=collet&&page=14

Okay, first of all, admin can you add the edit to the postings. I was trying to just edit my previous post to keep this thing from getting too long. I think there's now 6 pages, so I rather just edit and add to the posting to keep is simple and most of this in one posting. Thanks.

Now...I received the new 3" face mill today...so I wanted to give you guys an idea of what this thing looks like on a mini mill. On the chuck is my new 10mm solid carbide t coated endmill.The metric collets are on their way. You can tell the difference between that and the hss 3/8 end mill on the opposite side, by just holding them. It's much heavier and cut the hard vise I needed to fix without any problem. In the middle are the two face/end mills. You can see the numbers on the pictures so I won't even bother telling you the size of the smaller one. This large one uses 5 cutters and I thought it was like 3. As you can see it also came with one missing cutter so I had to send out an email about that. I also ran the mill without cutting on both low and high and it looks good. I'm sure it would even be much better with the belt conversion, but not a big deal right now from what I can tell unless I run it with this for too long of a time.

As you can see it covers most of the vise and fits the R8 spindle without a problem.

Just a side note. I noticed LMS keeps upping the prices every time I look at their site. Kind of like tracking what you look at then the price goes up. So I've been finding other sources for some items. Just thought you should know.

Looking good! It looks like both of your indexable cutters use TPG 322 replaceable inserts. You can get good deals on them at Enco:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM

Be careful with those carbide endmills. They are more brittle than HSS, and will break easily.

Also, it's not going to be how LONG you use the three incher that will break your gears, but the long moment of cutter force on the spindle.

Be very careful to ramp in slowly and not take very large cuts. If you lock the Z, check it often, because it will loosen. If a cutter digs in, your plastic gears will be toast.

CR.

Looking good! It looks like both of your indexable cutters use TPG 322 replaceable inserts. You can get good deals on them at Enco:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM

Be careful with those carbide endmills. They are more brittle than HSS, and will break easily.

Also, it's not going to be how LONG you use the three incher that will break your gears, but the long moment of cutter force on the spindle.

Be very careful to ramp in slowly and not take very large cuts. If you lock the Z, check it often, because it will loosen. If a cutter digs in, your plastic gears will be toast.

CR.

Thanks, always appreciate your help. You're right, the end mills are brittle from what I read, but I do try to be more careful and they are tougher than what the info may say, they do a heck of a job. I will change to the high speeds if I do more aluminum. I will be careful since they are also expensive but worth it for those hard metals. The bit I used to counterbore the vise hole didn't even get a scratch. My hss bit corners turned black when I tried it.

Good point on the inserts, none of these end/face mills came with any notes as to what they use. They're supposed to be carbide, but who wants to find out they are not when you're ready to make a cut. Not good if you're new to this so I hope this changes. My solid carbide bits at least had descriptions and model numbers as to what they are so that was very helpful to me.

As for the 3 incher, you're right again, I'm only planning light cuts and I already had that lock work fine, but I wasn't using it and the spindle just drop into my work with the smaller end mills, so I got surprised by it already. I started using the micro feed after this happened, but we still need to keep this in mind. I will check enco. I still haven't purchased anything from them. Most of my stuff has been coming in from all over so this is a waiting game for me too. So can't do much other than make drawings and read as much as I can. Frankly I still haven't made much of anything other than read a lot.

Ask Enco for a printed catalog. Then they will send you their sale flyers--That's where the bargains are. I buy TPGs from them in 10 packs. They cost WAY less that way then what LMS sells them for.

CR.

I noticed that end mill in the drill chuck. Not the best end mill holder. Drill chucks are not made to hold tolerance under sideways force. They also do not hold the shaft as well as an end mill holder holds the flat.

You probably already KNOW this: Best holding power in a chuck, (Mill or lathe) is achieved by tightening with the key in ALL key positions.

CR.

I will see what they have on the inserts. I put the end mill in the chuck because I'm still waiting for the collets I ordered. So you're right again, the chuck is not the best to hold these, but I was just drilling straight down a tiny bit, so it works fine for this. I didn't need to be perfect, as long as I could center it a bit. Like most people here I try to stay away from using the chuck if I can. I ordered one of those R8 to mt2 adapters to try the other keyless chuck on the mill. I just want to see how the mt2 works so we'll see. If it doesn't that's okay since I got that for my lathe. I used it for a bit on it and makes changing the bits nice and quick once you get the hang of it.

Okay, a little update today. I got my collets and a few other things today so here are some more pictures...the day after I had made this posting...
Picture
1. The collets come in those red pill looking plastic enclosures. They come sealed in the bag which has a little bit of oil in them. The red brush is a set I got from HF.

2. You can also see the flexible magnetic base, 3/8 indexable cutters, square and punch tool set.

3. This is what the dial holder end looks like. I couldn't figure out how this would go together since I both the back of the dial has a hole or ring and so does the holder end. Then I just stuck the bottom of it in there instead of trying to figure out how to mount it from the back. This fit, but was lose even when I tighten the nut. I then figured that the nut was put in on the wrong side. There is one side that has the threads and one that doesn't. The thumb screw goes in through the non threaded side first, then it will tighten correctly in order to hold the dial. Mine came the other way and no matter how tight I made it, I could take the dial in and out of it. Not good if you put it upside down for example. I got this because I kept hitting the other shafts too much while moving the x and y axis. This one has less stuff getting in the way, it just takes a bit to get used to it.

4.This is how you can hold the dial on this base holder. As you can see from the previous picture, you can't really use the back ring. At least I can't see how yet.

5. I wanted to show you how this one is held in place. It uses a cable through the middle. I wonder if all the flexible bases use this same cable.

6. Last but not least, this is the R8 to MT2 adapter. The next pictures will show you more on this one.

Here are more pictures...
The R8 to MT2 adapter makes this keyless chuck even longer than the stock one on the mini mill. I just thought I try using it here as well, but that may not work any better than the stock one. I also wanted to learn how the MT2 works on the mill. Live and learn. Now, what's the best way to make sure the chuck stays on this adapter? Are you supposed to just push this up by hand. I'm not sure, but I got it a bit stuck there and it was hard to take it out with the little bit I did, so I guess the wedges might be needed here if I want to use it like this. I'm not too crazy about this two on here like this. I did buy the chuck mainly for the lathe though. I just have to figure out the slop I'm getting on the tail stock and hopefully it's not the tab on the back of the chuck that's messing me up.

On the second picture you can see what the tab looks like once it's in the adapter. I don't know if there's a tool to stick in there or whether you are supposed to just use the wedges to take it out. There's enough room to stick a screw driver in there, but taking a chance of this just dropping on the bed or vise is just not something I'm crazy about. So after messing with this setup, If the MT2 configured mills work the same way, I do like the R8 spindle much better.

Interesting...you can't leave this part blank....
Okay, I don't know if all collets dissapear into the spindle like these metric collets, but here's what mine look like.

I took apart the automatic punch because I wanted to see how that thing works.

I had problems using two of the collets. If you look at the point where the scissors are, they apparently came with a tiny lip on that groove end. I filed it out and all was fine after that. It took me a while to find it so I thought I shared this with you guys. They're supposed to be standard R8, but the first one I tried was not going in, so this was driving me nuts for a bit being a newbie and all.

Okay, dad said to stop fussing around with things at the moment and just get the belt kit...so I did, but Hoss, I still would like to make yours as a project though. Only god knows I need the practice. Oh yeah one more thing, can you add the metric numbers to the pdf of your drawings? If you can cool, if not, that's okay too.

In any case, I ended up running into a problem with my key on the spindle. Some genius decided to just hammer the metal bushing in without checking it by hand first and well, the key was jammed in kind of sideways and really messed up at the top. Needles to say the new pulley would not go in so we filed the sides for a long time, but that still didn't do it. The key is made of a very soft material so when I tried getting it out, it just distorted a bit. So I did the next best thing, I used the dremel to shape it and the new pulley fits just perfect.

I also found that I had to use the dremel on the missing side cutter of that 3" face mill I got. Even though the screw was tight, it wasn't reaching far enough to hold it, so that insert was gone somewhere between china and wherever else it went. Just a pain a small thing can do. So I'm learning the headaches first I guess.

I did manage to jam the 1.25" face mill into one of those brake pads...yeah I know, you shouldn't do this with this stuff....I had to test it with something and I did use a mask., it just stopped, but nothing broken so works fine. Oh yeah, I also decided to add my receipts for what I have so far, and newbies, your will spend at least twice of what the machine costs in tools. SO YOU BEEN WARNED! Heck, I don't even have everything either.

I thought the plastic cover was a nice thick piece of molded lexan, but it's not. It's thin and flexible. Needles to say it does fit nicely though. After you make the upgrade, the cover for the drawbar can't be used any more either. So you just have to watch that if you're doing the octopus dance like I have sometimes. What's that you may ask, well, trying to hold some parts of the mill with your hand, and forearm all at the same time. Yeah, it's not pretty, but when this thing has all that slack, well, I did what I needed at the moment. :)

Oh, one more thing like everyone else, that 3/32 screw on the motor pulley was a pain, not for the reason you guys are thinking. Those are hardly used I think because it took me a day to look around for that thing. I couldn't find it, at home of course. Then we finally found the standard set of these. It's actually one of those bicycle like tools with all the different sizes, so that allowed me to finish installing the kit without having to go buy the tool. The base screws are metric so it would have been nice to see this one maybe a bit larger and metric to match what comes with the machine so you don't have to go looking for one. Learning is fine, just not when you're trying to get the darn thing together to just make it work. For me, this was the one item that kept me from turning it on at the beginning.

I thought they would work okay, but the cutter is way too small and the drill sharpener is, well, not great at all, so it's all going back. That was a broken bit, but that's as good as it gets.

I know, I need real tools right? Well, it was father's day so I had to try. :) I did like the bright orange on these little tools though. Makes them very visible and that works well for safety. Unfortunately they just weren't the best choice. Oh yeah, that's the full face mask I also picked up today. The glasses still work, but they still give me a headache. This mask is light and simple, so it works for just keeping chips off the full face.

Does anyone have any suggestions for drill bit sharpeners other than the grinder itself? What about end mill sharpeners, I have no idea what is used for these other than the grinder, but I'm sure there are better ways to do this.

This is something we do have... a few broken bits and well, I like the idea of something that may be dedicated to this without much fuss. I'm looking at the drill doctor, but I haven't used any drill bit sharpening tools so if there's anything better I would like to know. Thanks. Dad ask me so I might as well look for something good.

Okay, dad said to stop fussing around with things at the moment and just get the belt kit...so I did....

Good job! Now you have a machine that can reliably do some serious work.

CR.

I got some stuff from Travers and HF and of course had to make returns. Unfortunately I have found them to take a while to get your refund. So keep an eye on this if you have purchased anything from them. Not totally bad, it just sucks when you thought you had that change. Ugh....

I ended up getting an extra belt for the mini mill and mini lathe from LMS and well, the lathe I thought would be something better and different, it's the same as the original, but cut a little better than the one mine came with. You can still see it's not perfect though. The mini mill belt is the same type the kit was packed with. Just some food for thought.