I had an old milling machine that wouldn't do what I wanted it to do. I just wanted it to run as fast as possible without making any mistakes the first and every time (isn't that what everyone wants? :). Being a nerd with, uh, some interesting history, a solution was built (don't ask why ... because it seemed needed).

Leaving out all the cool nerd stuff, it now does what I want when I want (minus breaking the laws of physics). A friend was impressed with the solution and suggested it would make a great product.

I'm more nerd than CNC guy and don't know everything that is out there. I am looking for opinions if this product might draw interest before dedicating more resources to it.

Specs:
********
Name: CNCBrain
Retail: $499
Axis: 6
Interface: Windows via the USB port. Supports user defined VB script commands.
Software: Windows form application.
SDK: Yes. COM object. Don't like the GUI, build what you like in whatever language suits you.
Device: High-Speed USB to hardware massively parellel processor motion control.
Ports:
1 - 25pin D - sensors, motors, switches, etc..
14 - 9pin D - Linear scales (X1, X2, Y, Z1, Z2 ... some have two that add together), Rotary scales (A, B, C), Motor rotary encoders (X,Y,Z,A,B,C ... for double-closed loop).
Modes: (each axis can be any of the following)
Direct - No sensors, only theoretical control.
Closed - Uses linear or rotary encoder for feedback control. Auto corrects on error.
Double-Closed - Uses rotary encoder on motor along with Closed loop sensors to profile errors before they occur.
Spindle Control: PWM out. Sensor in. Direction Out. Power Out. VB Script optional.
Touch Probes: 1 NC, 1 NO. Save file output. One for touch probe, the other for tool height measurement.

Other Features:
********
Automatic Path Correction: In Closed Loop or Double-Closed Loop errors or pre-errors, paths are automatically recalculated. Basically, if you want, the machine doesn't stop because something didn't go as planned.
Double-Closed-Loop: This mode is a proactive mode. By watching the motors, the entire system can be adjusted for pre-error conditions.
Spindle scale: This lets the table motion to be matched to the spindle speed. If the spindle slows down, the table speed is scaled to match the spindle. Think of it as a "bit saver".
AutoHold: Even if an axis isn't in motion, the system will correct (when possible) for drift.
Watchdog: You can set "normal" behavior. Such as the spindle range, etc. which if invalidated, can trigger a "Panic" state to shut the machine down. This isn't intended for unattended operation, but things tend to go wrong when you are a few steps away.

Photo:
http://www.safeguardrobotics.com/images/cncbrain.jpg

Funny note:
********
Once during a 4-axis run, a backlash spring broke. This introduced into the machine a 1/4" slop along the Y-axis. The run completed, but I didn't even notice the spring until I went to unload the machine. I leaned against it and it moved. I got out the calipers and the part was perfect. It was a full 4-axis run with 3-axis machining at 0, 90, 180, and 270 deg.


*********
So, are there others out there with "less than perfect" machines that could use the double-closed-loop feedback for the price?

If I'm waisting my time, then thanks. If there is interest, I'll take out an ad on this site and we'll see where it goes.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Regards,
Bruce

if this would work with mach i imagine there would be a lot of interest. greg

Mach support would be up to Art. For him, it should be quite easy since the SDK has a COM object he could just drop in (he's done much more complicated stuff for sure).

A decent GUI would come with the controller. So you wouldn't need another piece of software. But Art has done a great job on Mach.

Thanks for the input!

How are the drives operated? PWM, analog, or step/direction?

Hi Bruce
This looks very promising .:)
The Pc controlled cnc machine is becoming more and more popular especially as a way of bringing a good machine with old equipment back up to date.

Will it work with any type of drive/servo.

What is the maximum encoder resolution that can be handled..

Any reason for choosing USB over firewire..?

Will it do 5 axis symultaneous machining with the right cadcam package.

Cheers
John.

Bruce I would be very interested in one but I would like to see a video and know about warranty etc? There is a new system coming out for the Mach system called smooth stepper that will sell for less money, but I am not sure it is going to have closed loop feedback, or at least with correction.

What about i/o's? Can this be interfaced with plc's and other hardware?

Mike

As a retrofitter, I'm interested. Add me to update list please.

Jim

Guys, I really appreciate your input and questions. Your experience and wisdom means alot.

I'll try to get a website up with more specs and some videos soon.

Answers to Questions:
1) Step/Direction at the moment. It can be configured for PWM, but I've not done that yet (except for the spindle control). But there is PLENTY of processing room left on the board.

2) Max Encoder Resolution. Great question. Internally (this is kinda weird), it is variable bit math, so in theory, there is no limit. I need to see what it is set for at the moment.

On the linear, I've tested 5 micron, but it was designed for the 0.5micron (just in case). On the rotary, it currently has been test at 4000 steps/turn for the motors (it can handle more, just not tested it).

3) PLCs and other hardware? I don't see why not. It has plenty of pins available. I wasn't sure what in all it was going to run when finished, so it was designed with OEM in mind.

Actually, there is the main board (with the goodies) and a separate breakout board. So, we could either make separate breakout boards with different plugs or it could be used in an OEM configuration.

4) Yes, 5 and 6 axis simultaneous. Currently, I run mostly 4 axis. Design in Rhino (flowing curves and simple interface). Convert to 3D with MadCam (been with it since 1.0 ... Beta MadCam does 4 axis). Most of the time, I position the part in Rhino at (0,0,0) matching the machine, then run 3axis cuts, then rotate as needed (inserting rotation tags), then 3axis cuts.

For 5 and 6 axis, I've only ran in testing, but the logic is identical to 4 axis.

5) USB over Firewire. Well, I had already designed the USB 2.0 interface with drivers. And I had designed the processing core separately. So, when designing the CNC Brain, I "borrowed" my other designs.

The instructions are carried out on the controller board, so the communication is quite simple. More house keeping. The controller caches hundreds of G-Code commands. Either is overkill.

Generally, between the PC and the controller, it can sustain 30MBytes/sec (actual tested throughput, not theoretical).

6) Warranty. I was planning on 6 months.

7) Wasn't asked, but thought I would throw it in. For the SDK, I'm including the source code for the default GUI (C# .Net ... yeah, I know, but a lot of people like it). That way, if you want your own, you don't have to start from scratch.

I hope this answered the questions. If not, I'll try again. :)

If you have more, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks! bruce

Bruce, can you tell us a bit more about how it's all connected w/ encoders and the drives? Would you route the encoder lines to the 'brain' and then somehow send that in duplicate over to the drive or?

By the look's of it, a guy might get pretty good at soldering DB plugs! :)

Have you contacted Brian or Art over at Artsoft? I'd like to hear if there is the possibility of them building a plug-in for this.. it sounds like the perfect fit..

Jerry

Since Art has retired, he probably won't do it, and Brian seems to already have too much on his plate. That's if it's even possible to do with mach. I have a feeling it may not be, due to the way Mach works internally.

I am also interested!!!:cheers:

Bruce check your pm's!

Mike

Hello,
I am interested too.
Do you have a video of the brain or the gui running a machine?
Any thoughts on how long it would be before it could be for sale?

THanks,
Cutmore

Hi,

This is the sort of thing that would be great for a Hexapod surely. As long as there was support for EMC2 of course.
If there is or there are plans afoot to be EMC compatible, then YES, I would be very interested!
Would love to see more detail please.

Wow! What a great bunch of people. The response has been fantastic.

Ok, so let's see:
1) EMC2 compatible - Well, there is a linux driver for the interface to the controller. It hasn't been tested and an SDK for the linux side hasn't been made. The thought was to go for the 95% Windows crowd (yes, we know, but its about the percentages). If enough people want it, we'll add it. But there has to be enough demand to warrant the dual platform support.

2) When - VERY SOON. I'll post the website as soon as it is up. We'll add videos ASAP.

3) Hexapod - grunt, grunt. :) Yeah, that would be cool. Nothing to stop it from being used for a robotics controller. X,Y,Z,A,B, and C basicially don't care if they are rotary or linear.

Keep them coming.

brccrb,

Dang I knew I was being a little too optimistic with the Linux side.:violin: I do understand your approach going for the Windows crowd though. Fair enough, I'd do the same if I were you.
I'm one of the Windows mob too, it's only that apparently EMC2 is the only controller out there that could deal with a Hexapod. At least there's a driver or I'll have another adventure learnin' how to program.:drowning:

Anyway, can't wait for the vids!


:wee:

i'll start with i'm not much of a computer nerd.

let me see if i understand, this and a pc would replace the controler in the machine?
the axis drivers hook to the little box and the box hooks to an ordenary pc running widows and your software?

Interesting device. It would help in understanding to see what the API for it looks like.

Cheers,

BW

Hey brccrb,

You're up on the Web now with your "BrainCNC"?

http://shop.safeguardrobotics.com/main.sc

...and you have a rapid prototyping machine too?!!

OK, first, the website is being updated in the next few days (you're a sneaky guy :) ). We've been in hiding while in development and just now ready to release real information. We have *quietly* partnered with several major players.

The CNC Brain was built to help us build the equipment we needed. Some was pretty straight forward, some pretty exotic (our scale goes from meters to microns). We've kept everything in house.

So, yes, we have a rapid prototyping machine coming out later this year. It is currently under testing. We see the CNC Brain as a compliment to the Whizzit.

***
Our idea is pretty simple: Help every small business, hobbyist, and inventor to build whatever they want whenever they want and get it into limited production at near zero investment.

Now, this doesn't mean make a million of something, but a few thousand is possible (if you need a million of something, get a professional). But to help the little guys get big, that is what we want to be.

As we like to say, "A factory of one". :)

It goes back to "The Long Tail" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Tail).

***
So, the CNC Brain was created because we needed the accuracy and speed. It worked for us. We've put it through some real messes and it couldn't make a single mistake after millions and millions of lines of G-Code.

We intend for the CNC Brain to help you build any metal parts (such as mechanisms, molds, etc.). The Whizzit is intended to help you prototype plastic parts. Add to that another "Thing" and the electronics/processing side gets covered.

So there, cats out of the bag.

***
Now, let's not get ahead of ourselves. First, we're cleaning up our documentation and getting ready to ship the first CNC Brains to the beta testers.

The Whizzit is being tested (and bugs fixed). After that, it goes to the university. Then release. No release date scheduled, yet.

***
Somone asked me about where this stuff came from. Its a lifetime obsession ... and let's say some involvement with the DARPA Grand Challenge was inspirational :)

Brccrb,

Oooops..... sorry 'bout dat. I blew your cover.:o ..and I got the name wrong too. "CNC Brain" ! :o

"Help every small business, hobbyist, and inventor to build whatever they want whenever they want "
Well I can tell you now, your strategy hit's me right between the eyes. Perfect shot!
:cheers:

For someone named "Zathras", the rubber glove treatment was amazingly gentle. :eek: ... just kidding.

Actually, it isn't a problem. Everyone was about to find out when we turned the website loose and placed the ad. Plus, everyone knows that in the CNC Zone, everyone is very talented and nothing is hidden.

Brccrb,

Oooops..... sorry 'bout dat. I blew your cover.:o ..and I got the name wrong too. "CNC Brain" ! :o

"Help every small business, hobbyist, and inventor to build whatever they want whenever they want "
Well I can tell you now, your strategy hit's me right between the eyes. Perfect shot!
:cheers:

This all seems very fishy to me. Your hardware has a bunch of db9 connectors and no labels. and the whizit looks like nothing but an empty box. even a paypal link is on the website! am I missing something?

Larry,
First, as for Zathras post, I've never met the person, except for the posts here. He seems like a really nice guy who's good at digging. Please, question me all you like, but kindly leave him out of it.

We are getting ready to release a full website (and will add as time dictates). Literally, we've been in hiding. The original website only contained the very minimum information to speak with vendors (CAD mainly).

I've been working on the Whizzit for almost 5 years. It has been frustrating and terribly expensive (all out of pocket). My background has covered a lot of weird stuff and I was very lucky in my twenties to be involved in some advanced projects.

As for "scam", well I find that rather resentful. If you could only know the times I could have "pre-sold" Whizzits. If you only knew the times I could have taken investor money. Never did either and currently I don't offer any Whizzits for sale or pre-sale.

A university has kindly offered to independently test the Whizzit and certify the machine. Until that happens, no units will be sold. "Empty box"?? It isn't a milling machine, it is an RP device. The bulk of the machine's mechanics are in the top of the machine. There are four lift screws and four guide rails that lower/raise the main mechanics (yellow frame).

As for the CNC Brain, it is what it is. It was created because my mill was a piece of junk. It came down to buying something expensive or fixing it. My experience with MPP (massively parallel processing) came in handy, along with the MPP framework I had built for another project. When it worked, it got me to thinking maybe others might have an need. My original post here was to decide whether to go forward with it or not.

The DB9 connectors were chosen because of the Accurite scales with DB9 connectors. I figured others might use the same setup. For the rotary encoders, it just seemed logical to use the same type connector to keep the pinout simple (same AB encoding). Instead of using something custom, I wanted anything someone might need to be found at Radio Shack.

Paypal is an option through the storefront vendor (a service to ensure data is kept safe ... real data security takes a dedicated staff). Many people like using the Paypal services.

On the store front, you might also notice the "high-assurance seal". In order to get that, you must go through a rather lengthy vetting process (they check who you are through local government and third parties).

We are getting the first batch of CNC Brains ready for sale, with the understanding they are Beta units. There is a big window for returns. You'll see the ad here on the CNC Zone first. I won't even post the link in this forum (seems like bad form).

That is as straight forward as it gets. I hope it addresses your issues. If you have other questions, please, feel free to ask. I'll answer until I don't have an answer or can't talk about certain patent pending aspects.

Regards,
Bruce

This all seems very fishy to me. Your hardware has a bunch of db9 connectors and no labels. and the whizit looks like nothing but an empty box. even a paypal link is on the website! am I missing something?

Larry67,

First of all, I will say for the record that I absolutely NO association with Bruce (AKA brccrb), the "CNC Brain" or his business. If there was some implication in your statement. Not sure.
As a matter of fact I am quite good at fishing out things from the Net but i'm sure there are plenty of others that could have found it anyway.

BTW I don't see what's wrong with having PayPal on a web site. Lots of vendors have it as an option as a convenience.

I'm genuinely interested in the CNC Brain 'cos I've had a long standing desire to build a Hexapod machine for my own project. There's not much in the way of motion controllers that is reasonably affordable to us novices out there (I looked!) so when this came along my neurons started firing again.
I also do appreciate anyone that tries to put something to market. It takes a huge personal investment in time and funds to get it out there.

Anyway, thanks for the nice comment Bruce and the best of luck.

:)

Mark

Any thoughts on making the manual available as a download? I have no way of knowing if the product is something I can, reading the manual would help out in this regard. Otherwise, great looking product.

Monte

Stay tuned ........ like maybe this week!