In this thread I plan to complete the CNC conversion using the cncfusion kit, build an 8020/plexiglass enclosure, and build a combination PC/driver tower.

I've had my X3 for about 3 months now and have manually milled myself into a stupor. Issues with backlash in the stock lead screws and not having enough time to concentrate really bit into "fun" time. CNCing the mill just seemed right :).

Here's a shot of my present set up: mill, dual head fogbuster-best money I've ever spent, and the custom made stand (figures 1 & 2). Here's how the kit arrived (figures 3 & 4). I was surprised how nice the precision ballscrews were. I was expecting the black roton type screws but these are up a notch :cheers:.

First step is to break the mill down and remove all of the stock motion components. I found that doing this while singing "ding dong the lash is dead (The Wizard of Oz)" made the process go a lot quicker (neglected to take pics).

More to come

Congrats,

How messy is the fogbuster? Looks real nice!

I'm jealous, your shop is way too clean. :)

Are you going to build the enclosure on the current bench?
I'm going to have to build me another bench when I get around to building an enclosure for it. It seems I didn't allow for the motors and mounts. oops:withstupi

Cheers,
Jack

Congrats,

How messy is the fogbuster? Looks real nice!

I'm jealous, your shop is way too clean. :)

Are you going to build the enclosure on the current bench?
I'm going to have to build me another bench when I get around to building an enclosure for it. It seems I didn't allow for the motors and mounts. oops:withstupi

Cheers,
Jack

Thanks, you caught the shop on a good day.

Mess? The fogbuster leaves very little mess. I don't even have a drainage system; don't need it. At most a small 1" puddle of coolant may develope on the part so I just soak it up with a shop rag :wee:

Yes, I will build the enclosure on the current stand. To clear the motors and extra equipment I'll have to arc out the sides 45 degrees. I'm CADing the plans now, but I need to finish the conversion first to take measurements.

Want to see something cool? Wait till you see the electronics case!

Are you using the $949 "Small-Mill Deluxe CNC kit with PREMIUM BALLSCREWS"?

Thanks.

Are you using the $949 "Small-Mill Deluxe CNC kit with PREMIUM BALLSCREWS"?

Thanks.

Yep, that's the one. I also purchased the upgraded helical couplings.

______________________________________________________________

The first time I broke down the mill for cleaning, it took almost a week. This time it only took 3.5 hours. Here are a few shots of the breakdown (figures 1-3). All the parts on the floor are never going to see the light of day again. The parts on the bench will be re-used.

Started buying my electronics today too. Who knew $900 bucks could go so fast :confused:. Here's what I ordered so far:


Kelinginc

a) Gecko drives 203V (3) @ $139.00 ea
b) 425 oz Stepper Motors (2) @ $54.00 ea
c) 640 oz Stepper Motor (1) @ $89.00
d) 1000W Power Supply w/ 12v & 5V outputs (1) @ $189.00

CNC4pc

a) C11G Break Out Board (1) @ $109.00


More to come

Lets try it with the pictures this time.

Looking good, Love these types of threads!


-Jason

Looking good, Love these types of threads!


-Jason


Thanks. Love what you did with the Taig.

_______________________________________________________

Something I didn't expect to encounter....

The cncfusion kit requires you to re-use the original Z axis thrust bearings. These are sub-par IMHO (figure 1). For one, the entire leadscrew was rusted therefore the thrust bearings were rusted onto it. Took many well placed taps with a hammer to get them off. Also in the middle of the angular thrust bearing there's a dent. This slightly restricted rotation when I tested it. Never could tell when it was on the mill though. Looks like I'll be shoping a mcmaster-carr today too :).

Also found these really nice limit switches from honeywell: Link (http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=642-2297&SEARCH=&MPN=SZL%2DVL%2DA&DESC=SZL%2DVL%2DA&R=642%2D2297&sid=45244B0076A8617F)

Again with the pic :p

MRM- Ah so you have seen it :) Still so much work too be done. So much fun, setting up everything, trust me, I have A LOT!

I'll be looking closely at this thread. Keep it up!


-Jason

Started buying my electronics today too. Who knew $900 buck could go so fast :confused:. Here's wheat I ordered so far:


Kelinginc

a) Gecko drives 203V (3) @ $139.00 ea
b) 425 oz Stepper Motors (2) @ $54.00 ea
c) 640 oz Stepper Motor (1) @ $89.00
d) 1000W Power Supply w/ 12v & 5V outputs (1) @ $189.00

CNC4pc

a) C11G Break Out Board (1) @ $109.00


Yea, $900.00 doesn't go as far as it use to........

A couple of 'heads up' (fyi type thing)!
That power supply's 5v supply doesn't have enough amps to run the BOB. It has 1amp regulated and the BOB requires 2amps. I ended up buying the A4 power supply from CNC4PC. It comes with a panel mount plug.
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=27&osCsid=450be4700e8b0d9f045670ef07367b3b

Something else about the BOB.. Arturo said it was on the older Revision boards, so it shouldn't happen with yours but just in case here's a description of my BOB problem.
"My charge pump doesn't work, unless..... I start up mach3 before I
power up the BOB, then it works fine. If I re-start mach3 without
turning off the BOB first, the charge pump stops working properly
until I turn off the BOB and re-start it too."

I wired my motors (425's bi-polar parallel and 640 bi-polar series) That way both motors fit the power supply better.

Looking good,
Jack

That power supply's 5v supply doesn't have enough amps to run the BOB. It has 1amp regulated and the BOB requires 2amps. I ended up buying the A4 power supply from CNC4PC. It comes with a panel mount plug.
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=27&osCsid=450be4700e8b0d9f045670ef07367b3b

Something else about the BOB.. Arturo said it was on the older Revision boards, so it shouldn't happen with yours but just in case here's a description of my BOB problem.
"My charge pump doesn't work, unless..... I start up mach3 before I
power up the BOB, then it works fine. If I re-start mach3 without
turning off the BOB first, the charge pump stops working properly
until I turn off the BOB and re-start it too."

I wired my motors (425's bi-polar parallel and 640 bi-polar series) That way both motors fit the power supply better.

Looking good,
Jack

_____________________________________________________________

Thanks for the heads up. I decided to go with the 1440W/20A & cnc4pc 5V/12V power supplies instead. I did this because my next machine will be much bigger with 640 oz NEMA 34s on all axis’s (sp?) and I plan to run both machines from the same electronics station on a parallel port switcher. Matter of fact, I'm making this machine for the sole purpose of cutting parts for the big one :).

On the thrust bearings hunt, I've come to the conclusion that the X3 uses regular ABEC-1 skate type bearings on the Z Axis. I visited several stores trying to find Angular Thrust Bearings (ATB) to fit a 12mm diameter shaft with an Outer Diameter (OD) of 28mm (the bearing holder is 28mm). All the stores had ATB for a 12mm shaft, but the outer diameter was a minimum of 30mm :boxing:. I then tried looking at regular bearings and they all were 12mm shaft and 28mm OD. I'm not happy, but not surprised either. ATB are 2-3 times the cost of the ABEC-1s. Looks like my first project will be to machine wider bearing holders to accept the superior ATBs.

The ones that came with the X3 weren’t all that great to begin with (rusted, dented, and old), so I'm going to change them out with new ones of the same type. VXB had the Thrust Bearings (http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?), mcmaster-carr had the ABEC-1s: part# 2337K122.

More to come

I'm glad it (heads up) helped,

Thanks for the info on Z-axis bearings.

With that power supply you'll want to wire the 640 oz/in motor series or it (could/will) burn up. At least that's what the G203v manual says: Quote from manual:
In all cases the power supply voltage should be no less than 4 times or no more than 20 times the motor’s rated voltage. The motor may not run as smoothly as possible if the power supply voltage is less than 4 times or more than 20 times the motor’s rated voltage. A power supply voltage greater than 20 times the motor’s rated voltage may overheat and damage the motor.

On the BOB make sure and set the jumper on the board for COM to be ground.(not +5v)
G203v (TERM. 10) COMMON Connect this terminal to the controller ground output
The G203v differs from all the other geckodrives on (term 10). Not sure about the new G250 & G540 products.

If this is stuff you already knew, please excuse me... it's just fresh on my mind. It kinda' stuck with me. I bought all my stuff and then had these OH S___ moments. :)

Can't wait to see more,
Jack

Oh yeah..... my 5v/12v power supply from CNC4PC didn't come with a AC power cord. The picture on their site doesn't show one. I had an extra PC power cord that worked so, if you don't have an extra power cord laying around......................

I'm glad it (heads up) helped,

Thanks for the info on Z-axis bearings.

With that power supply you'll want to wire the 640 oz/in motor series or it (could/will) burn up. At least that's what the G203v manual says: Quote from manual:
In all cases the power supply voltage should be no less than 4 times or no more than 20 times the motor’s rated voltage. The motor may not run as smoothly as possible if the power supply voltage is less than 4 times or more than 20 times the motor’s rated voltage. A power supply voltage greater than 20 times the motor’s rated voltage may overheat and damage the motor.

On the BOB make sure and set the jumper on the board for COM to be ground.(not +5v)
G203v (TERM. 10) COMMON Connect this terminal to the controller ground output
The G203v differs from all the other geckodrives on (term 10). Not sure about the new G250 & G540 products.

If this is stuff you already knew, please excuse me... it's just fresh on my mind. It kinda' stuck with me. I bought all my stuff and then had these OH S___ moments. :)

Can't wait to see more,
Jack


Thanks for saving my stepper motor. I read the gecko manual but didn't comprehend the limitations of the 640 oz stepper. Now that you mention it, I do have a extra pc power cord laying around......

________________________________________________________________

Today I installed the X and Y Axis for the mill. First, I roller the base on its side and removed the original ballnut mounting block. Then, grinded down Y Axis the alignment pins on the base (figures 1-4). I thuought about modifying the cncfusion kit to use them, but decided that it would take too much time. On the other hand, it would make aligning each axis so much easier .

Continued:

Little bit of locktite in the right places goes a long way. I then mounted the Y Axis ballscrew assembly onto the base (figure 1). Now it was time to remove the locknuts and mount the table to the base. Here is my biggest qualm about this kit: WHY DID THEY NOT INCLUDE "C" SPANNER WRENCHES WITH THE KIT!!!!!!. These are not as common as I thought so I hade to imagineer way to get the locknuts off. My solution was to use a set of vice grips with a shop rag around the teeth to loosen the nut. This way I wouldn't destroy the nut in the process (figures 2 & 3).

Looking real good, love the photos.


-Speed

Yeah, I like looking at pictures too.

Keep up the good work,
Jack

I just went through the same thing with the bearings. I wasn't able to find anything remotely close to the 12mm bearings, but I did find some needle bearings from MSC direct that did the trick. Much smoother operation and it was about $18 for the complete set of washers and bearings.

03380904 (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=03380904) Thrust - Bearings Outside Diameter: 0.9380 In. Thickness: 0.078 In. Inside Diameter: 0.5000 In. Material: Steel Style: Needle Cage

03381076 (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=03381076) Thrust - Bearings Outside Diameter: 0.9370 In. Thickness: 0.032 In. Inside Diameter: 0.5000 In. Material: Steel Style: Flat Race


Worked out great! You'll need 2 flat race washers for every 1 Needle cage.

What is the expected accuracy gain in using the $949 "Small-Mill Deluxe CNC kit with PREMIUM BALLSCREWS" rather than the $569 ballscrew kit? Are there any other benefits in using the more expensive kit?

Thanks

What is the expected accuracy gain in using the $949 "Small-Mill Deluxe CNC kit with PREMIUM BALLSCREWS" rather than the $569 ballscrew kit? Are there any other benefits in using the more expensive kit?

Thanks

The difference in ballscrews is the accuracy over the length. The regular ballscrew kit I think has ~0.005in accuracy and the premium has ~0.001in accuracy. You may think that it's only a few thousands difference but it compounds after each change in direction.

_______________________________________________________________


Here's the Y Axis assembly disassembled (figure 1). I was surprised that the bearings weren't sealed. Probably going to upgrade those later too. Here are some shots of the Y Axis table installed on the base (figures 2-5).

First, I installed the Y Axis assembly on the base and then slid on the X Axis. At this point everything is finger tight for adjusting later. I did take a while to get it adjusted. To test it, I hooked it up to a power drill by inserting a 0.25in drill bit into a helical coupler. This is what I call HDC (Hand Drill Control) :rainfro:. Everything works pretty well.

I started installing the Z Axis and ran into a problem. I think cncfusion turned my Z Axis ballscrew too short. First shot is the Z Axis assembled (figure 1). Second is a pic of the Z Axis installed (figure 2). The top bearing has a 7.38mm gap between it and the ballscrew (figures 3-4) (nuts). Has anyone ran into this in their kit?

Me Likey:) LoL, at first with my Taig, I was going too have it drilled powered for a bit :P


Really lol!


-Jason

Yes, the "short" Z scew is to be expected according to cncfusion and is purposely designed to be a loose fit in an attempt to accomodate the size variation in the x3 models. I will likely machine a new bearing mount that can be adjusted to fit the length of the screw.

Great build btw...looking great so far. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, the "short" Z scew is to be expected according to cncfusion and is purposely designed to be a loose fit in an attempt to accomodate the size variation in the x3 models. I will likely machine a new bearing mount that can be adjusted to fit the length of the screw.

Great build btw...looking great so far. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome. Thanks for looking.

______________________________________________________________

Haven't got a lot of building done this week due to me catching "walking" pnemonia (nuts). I took this as a sign theat I should order and design my electronics enclosure :). I'll post picks tomorrow.

I am really impressed by the way cncfusion designed this kit. While it isn't the most sophisticated way to CNC an X3, it is straight forward and requires no modification to any of the original components.

Here are pics of the Z Axis install (figures 1-3). The pulley in installed on the Z ballscrew and the Stepper motor mounting plate is fastened to the base with the cncfusion supplied screws (they're ~0.25in longer).

For me this is the fun part. Love being able to design something without any constraints using the newest techniques and most complex solutions possible (I'm not kidding :)).

Attached are pics of the electronics I got last week followed by their CAD renderings (figures 1-4). I wanted to do something fun for the cooling so I decided to mount each Gecko to it's own CPU cooling fan and wiring all the fans in parallel. The cnc4pc 12V power supply (PS) is rated at 1.5A and the Break out Board (BOB) needs 300mA to function, so the BOB and fans can get along using only 1.44A total. Only draw back is the fans will be going at top speed at all times :rolleyes:.

I've abanded the concpt of mounting the stepper drivers in the CPU case due to the cooling and space issues. Now, I plan to use a conventional rack mounted electronics enclosure like those found on ebay.

Attached are early shots of the populated electroncs enclosure (figures 1-2). The major components are in but still have to CAD the wiring and connectors. One design feature is the 0.75in raised floor base. This will allow me to run all of the 72V wiring underneath while the 12V/5V wiring is on top of the case plate. Makes the installation much easier and cleaner. To aid in cooling I've also installed a 4" 120VAC exhaust fan on the other end. Still alot left to do on the box but still waiting on mouser to deliver the parts so I can take measurements.

My present workbench is too small for a full enclosure so I have to mod it for clearance. Here are a few preliminary shots of the process (figures 1-3). I plan to use 8020 quick frames for the skeleton with Plexiglas on the front and sides. Now that I think about it, I'll probably add a few halogen light in there as well :rolleyes:

This is a great thread ... I'm enjoying watching the build very much.

I really like the enclosure concept, running the wires high/low will give it a very clean look and provide good access to the ones you are most like to fiddle with.

The workbench enclosure looks good, make sure you tie those corner posts in very securely or that will rack back and forth during rapids, some side angle braces might be in order. What is the overall size of the bench surface at this point and how much clearance from the mill table extents does that give your?

This is a great thread ... I'm enjoying watching the build very much.

I really like the enclosure concept, running the wires high/low will give it a very clean look and provide good access to the ones you are most like to fiddle with.

The workbench enclosure looks good, make sure you tie those corner posts in very securely or that will rack back and forth during rapids, some side angle braces might be in order. What is the overall size of the bench surface at this point and how much clearance from the mill table extents does that give your?

Good idea about the braces. Presently, the bench is 49" x 31". The extensions add about 6" on the X & Y axis, which give me about 3-4in clearance from the steppers.

Added few components to the electronics enclosure model, namely: fuse holders, power receptacles, E-Stop, Step/Dir Indicator, and Terminal Blocks.

This week I did find a lot of gadgets that increase the "wow" factor dramatically. First, the Step/Dir Indicator from CandCNC.com (only $26) will allow me to actually see the pluses and direction signals from the Break-Out-Board (BOB) with a panel mounted circuit board. I thought that it could only work with their brand of BOB, but Tom (owner) was kind enough to send me a PIN-OUT diagram of how to hook it up.

Second, I'm going to need several terminal blocks for this project due to the many peripheral devices involved in the design. Just off the top of my head there's the LED indicators, Fan, and Power Supply (A/C circuits) with BOB, Step/Dir indicator, Analog Ampere Meter, Gecko Heat-sink Fans, etc (D/C circuits). Hopefully the box won't melt (flame2).

Third, I decided to move the fuses outside the box for ease of maintenance. They were originally under the riser panel which would have made wiring a lot easier, but if one ever failed I would have to take apart the entire enclosure to replace it (nuts).

Hopefully my orders will get here this week so I can start building this thing in real life.

If you are wondering how much $$$ all this costs, I'll include a detailed grocery list at the end. WARNING: It is not pretty. It hurts just to glance at it.

My DC circuit components came today :wee:. I was very pleased to find that the fans are very quiet. Even with all four going full speed, at the same time. Also, got conformation that all of the electronics will be delivered this week. Hopefully I can get this thing built by Sunday.

How is this project going? I am interested in seeing the detailed costs.

The project has finally started moving again. Got all of the electronics today, including the case. I just started wiring the power supply, so I'll do a full update once the drivers are done.

Kelvin

it's been two weeks since I posted "reality shots".

Until the mounting holes are cnc'd into the electronics enclosure I had to install everything on a 0.75in slab of plywood. Here's a shot of the A/C circuit: 12 slot terminal block, power supply, LED indicator, and 120V Fan (figure 1).

The 12 slot terminal block took a while to wire but I am very happy with the results. All the components are wired in parallel and I still have two extra slots for possible expansion later (figure 2). I am also happy with the power supply selection. Each of the two D/C outputs produce 72VDC (figure 3) which allows me to power this 4 axis stepper driver box and another identical 4 axis stepper driver box at the same time with the same supply :banana:. The fan is pretty good too. It's really quiet for the size and puts out A LOT of airflow (figure 4). Lastly, here’s something that made soldering much easier; the "helping hands" (figure 5). This is a smaller version of the RadioShack model ($49.99), but only cost $4.50 from www.allelectronics.com (http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/HELPH-M/780/HELPING_HAND_W__MAGNIFIER_.html)! I will post a detailed price list at the end but I will tell you now that this place has shielded cable, connectors, and most other things dirt cheap. They even are cheaper than Mouser :eek:. Now it's time to wire the DC circuit.

Kelvin

Be careful, Geckos don't like metal chips... :)

you can buy little "bridging" clips that attach adjacent rows of the terminal strips together, so you don't need to make those wire loops to connect them all. Alternatively, you can buy a common grounding terminal strip where all the screws are connected together. Alot less effort. West Marine is a good (expensive) local place to get terminal strips like that.

How wide is your SX3 column?

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56471&stc=1&d=1206627487

you can buy little "bridging" clips that attach adjacent rows of the terminal strips together, so you don't need to make those wire loops to connect them all. Alternatively, you can buy a common grounding terminal strip where all the screws are connected together. A lot less effort. West Marine is a good (expensive) local place to get terminal strips like that.

How wide is your SX3 column?


Thanks for the tip about the terminal strips. Found some at RadioShack for pretty cheap. The column width of the X3 is about 5in.

______________________________________________________________

Finished installing the cncfusion kit today. The plan is to use the mill to machine the electronics case, limit switch mounting brackets, etc. This meant that I had to get the machine up and running first.

Here's a few shots of the completed mill with cnc kit installed (figures 1-4). If you wondering what the 2x4 is doing there; it's keeping the head from crashing into the X & Y axis. I didn't realize how efficient ballscrews were until I let go of the mill head and down it went :mad:. The final hook-ups for the electronics are next.

Really, with the weight of the head, it will really rotate ballscrews around without any resistance...? Wow. Looking good.


-Jason

It will with mine. It will pretty much drop like a rock. I even have an old cncfusion kit.

Just finished the OEM wiring of the electronics. I'm going to use the mill to make clearance holes in the case for all the connectors so everything had to be temporality mounted to a piece of 3/4" ply (figure 1).

Here's a shot of the steppers and DIR/STEP LED circuit (figure 2). I like the DIR/STEP circuit because when everything is mounted I still have indicator of what signals are being sent where. The 425oz steppers (X & Y axis) are wired in parallel and the 640oz is wired in series. The 640 is wired in series because of my large 72V power supply. I used 33k resistors to limit the current to just under 3A because the Gecko 203Vs aren't heat sinked.

The BOB wiring is pretty typical for now, but later I plan on using it for spindle control, edge finders, limit switches, etc (figure 3).

Lastly, here's a shot of the PC that's going to run it all (figures 4 & 5). It's really a Franken-pc made of all the old parts lying around the house (1.7 Celeron, 80GB SATA HDD, 64MB Video Card, 400W Power Supply). I will probably upgrade it later to a dual core and load CAD/CAM on it, but it’s more that adequate for now.

For your viewing pleasure

STEPPER PORN!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h32/Mods-R-Me/th_CNCCircuitTest6Mar2008.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h32/Mods-R-Me/?action=view&current=CNCCircuitTest6Mar2008.flv)

Nice job man, I'm in the same boat with you about my BOB Board, I don't have much time "now", like in a month I will, so I will be hooking up everything too it. Limit switches, E-Stop etc. It controls my coolant flood, anything I want.


Looking good!


-Jason

Figured it was a good time to finish the enclose model. The windows are 0.25in acrylic and the white panels are 0.25in ply. The rails are 8020 quick frames. Cost is just over $100. Once the enclosure is done, I can start making chips :wee:

That is freaking awesome. Thats exactly what my enclosure is going too look like, except it will be bolted onto my Mason Concrete mixer that is parts of my flood system drain. Know what I mean? Same design as yours and materials.

-Jason

That is freaking awesome. Thats exactly what my enclosure is going too look like, except it will be bolted onto my Mason Concrete mixer that is parts of my flood system drain. Know what I mean? Same design as yours and materials.

-Jason

Thanks, and I do know what you mean. I'm going to put the order in Tuesday. Should start on it this Saturday.

I'm starting an X3 conversion using the same kit.

I figured I would take advantage and replace the Z-axis bearings during the conversion.

I read the post regarding the mcmaster-carr ABEC-1s: part# 2337K122.

I really don't understand all the bearing types and their usage so please bear with me.

I see that on the same line as the 2337K122 they list a 2337K561. Same price, but this is listed as a double-shielded bearing with a dynamic load capacity of 1147 pounds vs. the 2337K122's dynamic load capacity of 57 pounds.

Given the slow speed of the stepper would it make sense to use the K561 instead of the K122? Is there a reason to use an 'open' bearing in this case?

Lastly, how many of these bearings would I need? Two?

Thanks for the help!

The X3's Z requires minimal dynamic load capacity - the ways carry most if not all the dynamic loading IF your screw is straight and perfectly perpendicular to the nut mount on the carriage. I would avoid an open bearing unless you have a REALLY good way cover system planned. I was shocked at the amount of chips in the column cover when I took it apart after machining the X and Y mounts for my conversion. Open bearings are easier to pack with grease, shielded you either oil or have to remove the retaining ring (not hard on this size really, try doing it on 10mm OD bearings...) in order to get the shield out and pack with grease effectively.

I didn't go back through and read but is this the top (supported end) or the bottom (driven end) bearing you're replacing? I haven't torn down my Z to design the Z portion of the conversion, but I am going to either overbore the lower block to accept 10x30x9 40° Angular Contact bearings or give in to a smaller shoulder and a different bearing or machine a new steel lower bearing mount.

How consistent have people found column tramming to be with having aluminum under the bolt heads that secure the column to the base? This seems a poor design consideration to me and am going to take a different approach to mount my stepper.

It sounds like I should use a walled bearing if possible.

I haven't torn the Z axis apart yet but I was thinking the driven bearing.

I have been trying to learn a little about angular contact and thrust bearings and their specific application.

I use this pressure flow device to grease the sealed bearings in some of my helis. I wonder if this would work for the walled bearings!?

I guess I'm too dedicated on my helis - I peel out the retaining ring with the tip of an X-Acto and pull the shields and PACK the bearing full. Though I haven't flown since I dirt napped my Swift aerial photography unit.

Back to topic - the thrust bearings don't seem too bad on the stock Z screw, but I know they won't last long, I'm going with at least 2 if not 4 AC bearings on the driven end with some sort of slinger on the screw to shield the AC bearing since those are open, and one or two shielded bearings on the supported end.

I guess I'm too dedicated on my helis - I peel out the retaining ring with the tip of an X-Acto and pull the shields and PACK the bearing full. Though I haven't flown since I dirt napped my Swift aerial photography unit.

Back to topic - the thrust bearings don't seem too bad on the stock Z screw, but I know they won't last long, I'm going with at least 2 if not 4 AC bearings on the driven end with some sort of slinger on the screw to shield the AC bearing since those are open, and one or two shielded bearings on the supported end.

You're right about those bearings not lasting long. I started out this project with only a few mods in mind, but I keep thinking of more after taking it apart and putting it together 2-3 times. CNC gets you hooked!

_________________________________________________________

The cnc fusion kit is fully installed and the stepper motors are tuned with zero backlash in all 3 axis (figure 1). I am really impressed with the connectors from mouser (figures 2 & 3). Could have gone with the standard Molex type connectors but these seemed superior. The connectors are sealed from the elements, which means they are swarf-proof. At $9.00/pair they're not cheap, but I'm gaining peace of mind. Soldering the connections wasn't that bad as long as I used a lot of shrink wrap (figure 4). There is some space in there, but it's pretty microscopic so I'm happy.

The tune the motor I used a simple math equation to get the base steps/rotation number:

(Programmed Distance/Actual Distance Traveled) * Initial step value

For the initial value I used 10000 and for the distance I used 0.5". From there, I just fine tuned it 20-30 steps at a time until it was dead on. Total set up took about an hour.

CNC Fusion Stepper Tuning

I want to start programming parts so bad, but I'm working without limits so I'll have to cut the mounts for those first. More to come.

Looking good,

Did your steps per inch end up at 10160?

Pretty close. 10169 ish. All three axis about 50-100 steps apart. Can't figure out why :confused:

I just used 10160 on all axis and did the test. My X and Y were dead on with less then .001" backlash. My Z tested dead on, on the distance moved, but had .004-.005" backlash.

Now that I have run my machine for awhile the Z has about .010 backlash. I just program all the Z moves going down(-). If I need to cut a surface higher then the surface I just cut, I move above it and then back down.

I need to re-adjust the locking collar, I think. (OR) thread the Z ballscrew and put a locking nut on it.

Again, Looking good,
Jack

Looks good, Me likey. Any work too the enclosure or first this then that :)

-Jason

Hey guys
Congrats on the builds. I did my SX3 with the CNC Fusion kit late last year. Did encounter a few problems- like the newly designed rear electronics housing not having a cutout compatible with the Z Axis bracket or belt. Also, initially had the Lovejoy connectors, which didnt work well in this app. A major problem was alignment of the bearing block- which was causing havoc with the X axis screw. All small changes/fixes, but not necessarily easy to track down- at least for me.

So having lived with this for a few months, here are a couple of thoughts. First, I have not seen any problem related to the aluminum Z axis mounting bracket between the new bolt heads and the Z column. They were not tight enough on first go, so I pulled the bracket, reverted to stock, measured deflections/tram, and put the bracket back in. Once the new bolts were TIGHT, I saw no variance in deflection on Z. Unfortunately, there is a LOT of deflection on this design- just a 5lb pull on the spindle will see like .01" x/y deflection. But, it is not a 2000lb machine, and there is going to be twist in this type of column design.

The major problem has been Z axis sag- where the spindle tends to droop with cutter towards the column. Basic physics, when you consider the dovetail bearings have to be loose enough to move. So, you can shim the SX3 up via the rotary axis on the head, but that has disadvantages in reducing stiffness there (you lose a lot of surface area).

Overall though, it seems a fairly rugged config for moderate work. It is happy to do .1" depth with a 1/2" cutter at 20IPM in 6061. I do have a pulley mod to double the spindle speed, which helps for this.

My main gripe is the seriously limited Y axis travel. That will probably be the one change I will make to the CNC Fusion design- you get maybe 5.5" out of it, which is very limiting if you are doing any external contouring, etc. I have seen a couple mods here that extend it to 7" or so. Maybe you lose a little stiffness at the ends of travel, but that is fine with me vs repositioning work and being off a few thousandths (at least) in that effort...

I put a touch-off pad I made up on a rear table corner, and have an auto-zero macro setup in Mach3, which really makes tol changes trivial- like 20 seconds max. Yea, requires intervention, but not a big time killer, and pretty accurate (+/- .002 on Z after tool change and auto zero).

Using the vampire drives, and decent motors, gives amazing speeds- well in excess of the cutting capability of the motor/frame.

Wish list would include an oiling setup, and effective way covers...

Rob

"but I'm working without limits so I'll have to cut the mounts for those first."

What kind of mounts are you making? I was going to drill some holes and mount the Honeywell limit switches right to the base.

"but I'm working without limits so I'll have to cut the mounts for those first."

What kind of mounts are you making? I was going to drill some holes and mount the Honeywell limit switches right to the base.

I think we're using the same honeywell switches (figure 1). To trigger the switch the arm has to rotate ~3/8". The trigger arm on the switch extends about 1/16" below the mounting plate so I will raise it using a 0.25" aluminum block. Thi should give the trigger arm adequate room to rotate. For the Y Axis, I plan on bolting a "C" bar to actuate the + & - limits (figure 2). I'm probably not explaining this well so I'll take pics when I install it this weekend.

Yes, I think I ordered the same switches as you.

I put the switch right on to the base (X and Y) and then ran both axis to their endpoints. I used small magnets to mark the point on the ways/table base where the limits were reached and the switch was triggered.

This seemed to work well. I was going to drill holes in place of
magnets and use small dowel pins that stick out ~.25" and will trip the limit switches.

Any thoughts on why this might (not) work?

Yes, I think I ordered the same switches as you.

I put the switch right on to the base (X and Y) and then ran both axis to their endpoints. I used small magnets to mark the point on the ways/table base where the limits were reached and the switch was triggered.

This seemed to work well. I was going to drill holes in place of
magnets and use small dowel pins that stick out ~.25" and will trip the limit switches.

Any thoughts on why this might (not) work?


Do you plan on using the lever arm to actuate the switch? If so, install the arm, clamp it to the base and try to rotate it. You'll need a spacer block under the switch for clearance. Also, it takes 3/8" of travel to trigger the switch; be sure to compensate for it.

Hello everyone,

I received my SX3 as scheduled from Grizzly. I have ordered my conversion kit from CNC FUSION and it should arrive next week. I also have all my electronics as well. I thought I would share some pictures of the mill with you all. I have also taken the mill apart and have got it ready to send out for powder coating this coming week. Stayed tuned for more updates. I have a lot of exciting ideas and photos I will be posting as my project progresses.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture031Small.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture033Small.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture047Small.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture082Medium.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture085Large.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture088Large.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture085.jpg

Nice! If I had the chance, I would have went with the SX3 just for the direct belt drive.

_________________________________________________


I ALMOST cut my first part today, but halfway through machining the spindle stopped (nuts). Tried to turn it back on and it won't start at all. Funny thing is that it will go in reverse! I think something on the spindle controller board blew. Hopefully grizzly cna send me a replacement board tomorrow.

This happened to Hoss, you should read up on what he did, he took the opportunity to go with a treadmill motor and motor controller. FWIW.

PS, I'm always ecstatic to follow your work Kelvin, big Fan!

Sean

Man, X3 is pretty large. I always get mixed up though with people's X2's and X3's. X3 is nice.

Keep us posted RC.


-Jason

This happened to Hoss, you should read up on what he did, he took the opportunity to go with a treadmill motor and motor controller. FWIW.

PS, I'm always ecstatic to follow your work Kelvin, big Fan!

Sean

Thanks, I was wondering what happend to you in Jan. Figured you got busy :confused:.

Update: Grizzly said the controller is under warranty, so they're sending another for free :banana:. Should be here Wednesday.

I just ordered my Super X3 from Grizzly, will be here tomorrow. Also ordered the CNC Fusion Deluxe X3 kit. I'm still struggling a bit with the electronics/motors. I was a little suprised on how everything priced out from Keling:

$556 G203V 80V 7A (X,Y,Z,A) {4*139}
$147 Motor Nema23 425ozin Dual 1/4 in. Shaft (X,Y,A. This size probably overkill for rotary table but good price) {3*49}
$105 Motor Nema34 905 ozin Double 1/2 in. Shaft (Z only $16 more than the 640 with double shaft and lower intertia and voltage)
$149 72V 12A 860W (wanted 80V but this was the best price compromise)
$109 C11G BOB
$139 Mach3
$69 MPG1: Rotary Manual Pulse Generator
$1274 Total - OUCH!

This price range makes the servo package look good. What do you think about the servo package "NEMA 34 Servo Motors 3 Axis CNC Kit: $1139" or "NEMA 34 Servo Motors 4 Axis CNC Kit: $1447" and can you guys provide some details on your motor/power setup and what kind of IPM rapid and cut you get? It just seems odd to me that the appropriate open-loop stepper package is even close to the closed-loop servo package. I know the servos are overkill for the X3 but I will probably get a bigger machine down the road. In fact, my manual X2 is on its way out. Can you guys please provide some guidance before I place my order, and before Michael finishes my kit so I can ask for Nema 34 mounts? I'll share all my details along the way.

This is an awesome thread. You guys are doing some really cool stuff. Keep the updates coming!

Man, X3 is pretty large. I always get mixed up though with people's X2's and X3's. X3 is nice.

Keep us posted RC.


-Jason

Although this picture was taken many moons ago, this will give you an idea of the size difference between the X2 and SX3. For reference, the bench is 6' long. And the window behind it is 36" tall.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/Metal%20Machines/DSC02234.jpg

Hey guys, nice machines and thanks for keeping the thread alive. I've been working on the mill and waiting for parts. Took lots of pics and video of the process ans will post them this weekend.

In short, I replaced the speed control, but the mill still won't turn in reverse. I called grizzly and they are sending a replacement motor and forward/reverse switch for free.

Here's something freaky.....In my frustration I decided to switch the leads coming out of the motor to see what happens. Now the mill turns forward but not in reverse :confused:. This leads me to believe that one of the brushes is bad on the motor.

Now that I got the machine to turn forward, I cut my first two parts (pics later, sorry). The finish isn't great cutting with hss, but I'm waiting on 3 flute carbide cutters/roughers orderd off ebay. Sorry for the lack of pics but the camera is in the shop and the baby is already sleep. If I wake her up the female companion unit will just about lose it :violin:.

I just ordered my Super X3 from Grizzly, will be here tomorrow. Also ordered the CNC Fusion Deluxe X3 kit. I'm still struggling a bit with the electronics/motors. I was a little suprised on how everything priced out from Keling:

$556 G203V 80V 7A (X,Y,Z,A) {4*139}
$147 Motor Nema23 425ozin Dual 1/4 in. Shaft (X,Y,A. This size probably overkill for rotary table but good price) {3*49}
$105 Motor Nema34 905 ozin Double 1/2 in. Shaft (Z only $16 more than the 640 with double shaft and lower intertia and voltage)
$149 72V 12A 860W (wanted 80V but this was the best price compromise)
$109 C11G BOB
$139 Mach3
$69 MPG1: Rotary Manual Pulse Generator
$1274 Total - OUCH!

This price range makes the servo package look good. What do you think about the servo package "NEMA 34 Servo Motors 3 Axis CNC Kit: $1139" or "NEMA 34 Servo Motors 4 Axis CNC Kit: $1447" and can you guys provide some details on your motor/power setup and what kind of IPM rapid and cut you get? It just seems odd to me that the appropriate open-loop stepper package is even close to the closed-loop servo package. I know the servos are overkill for the X3 but I will probably get a bigger machine down the road. In fact, my manual X2 is on its way out. Can you guys please provide some guidance before I place my order, and before Michael finishes my kit so I can ask for Nema 34 mounts? I'll share all my details along the way.

This is an awesome thread. You guys are doing some really cool stuff. Keep the updates coming!


I haven't tuned my machine yet, but I can cut 0.1 ipm with 2 flute 3/4" HSS. The finish isn't great and I can tell the X3 is not liking it, but it works. I am upgrading to 3 flute rougher and cutters which should allow faster ipms and better finish....I hope. Just remember to tighten you gibs. I found most of my slop was from them being "manual milling tight". Also, be sure to tram the mill post. The weight of the head makes the mill post lean slightly forward. A few 0.001in shims will solve this.

Welcome to CNC!

Kelvin, you want four flute carbide coated end mills. Finish has A LOT to do with how well the part is being held. Don't go cheap on the vise. Most of the finish you see is going to be chatter if it's not held right.

Also, a good rubber wheel on a bench grinder will polish out your finish any day of the week.

Also, make sure you are climb milling. IE finish is being made with the cutter moving either clockwise around the finished part or counter clock wise inside diameter of finished part.

Sean

Kelvin, you want four flute carbide coated end mills. Finish has A LOT to do with how well the part is being held. Don't go cheap on the vise. Most of the finish you see is going to be chatter if it's not held right.

Also, a good rubber wheel on a bench grinder will polish out your finish any day of the week.

Also, make sure you are climb milling. IE finish is being made with the cutter moving either clockwise around the finished part or counter clock wise inside diameter of finished part.

Sean

Thanks Sean. The finish around the profile of the part is great, it's the face milling portion that sucks. I've been machining parts with the stock only being supported on the ends. That would explain the crappy finish. Funny thing is I have THIS VISE (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Toolmaker-s-Vise-w-V-Block/H7541) already :withstupi. Probably should start using it huh......

I think I'm going to buy a grinder this weekend. You rock Sean, thanks

I would have recommended the same vise but from "shars", I got mine for less than $50.00 and they are for most purposes identical. You and I need to be talking on the phone once a week on these issues bud. If you've got my number, give me a call and we'll go over bits, jpegs in solidworks etc. I'll be building a rather large CNC mill over the next month, similar to this one built by a local friend. To increase my capabilities in my shop!

I would have recommended the same vise but from "shars", I got mine for less than $50.00 and they are for most purposes identical. You and I need to be talking on the phone once a week on these issues bud. If you've got my number, give me a call and we'll go over bits, jpegs in solidworks etc. I'll be building a rather large CNC mill over the next month, similar to this one built by a local friend. To increase my capabilities in my shop!

Hi Seanreit,
Was it this vise http://www.shars.com/products/view/148/Precision_Toolmakers_Vise_5quot that you were talking about?

Thanks.

yup, I got mine on ebay for 35.00 or something like that. Works good for the small stuff.

Anytime you start hanging outside the vice by about two to three inches or more, you are gonna get some chatter, no way around it. I make a 13" metal piece on a mill with a 6 inch wide vice. On the ends I get a little bit of chatter, but I would not even attempt it on the 3" vice.

Again, a good rubber wheel will take out the chatter afterwards, and blend in aluminum or titanium really well!

I would have recommended the same vise but from "shars", I got mine for less than $50.00 and they are for most purposes identical. You and I need to be talking on the phone once a week on these issues bud. If you've got my number, give me a call and we'll go over bits, jpegs in solidworks etc. I'll be building a rather large CNC mill over the next month, similar to this one built by a local friend. To increase my capabilities in my shop!

I agree Sean. I lost your number though. I PM'd you mine.

I'm knee-deep in the installation of a deluxe CNC Fusion kit in a Grizzly Super X3. I am trying to figure out how to adjust the Z axis pre-load. Do you just press up on the retaining collar as hard as you can or am I missing something obvious?

Also, did anyone find it necessary to adjust the X or Y ballscrew retaining nuts for backlash? Mine seem OK, but I cannot measure backlash at this stage of assembly. Just wondering.

Bill

Hi Bill! Congrats on acquiring the new G0619!

Look at the ballnuts. Notice how they seem to be two parts? That's because the dark part is the preload nut. They have already been loaded with oversized balls and load tightened.

Whatever you do, don't LET the ballnut run off the end of the screw. If you DO, you'll find out how many balls are IN there--if you FIND them all.

CR.

CR:

Thanks, CR. I'm afraid I was not very clear in my question. What I really meant was how to put a pre-load (or take the axial play out) on the ballscrew mounting bearings so the ballscrew would not be free to move up and down (Z axis). This contributes to backlash.

The X and Y axis have a nut that removes the axial play, but the Z axis appears to have only the retaining collar. It seems that it would be very difficult to get the axial play down to any where near zero that way.

Bill

Are you saying that you DON'T have a spanner nut on the bottom of your Z ballscrew?

CR.

Bill

At least with my kit, the Z used a slip collar or whatever it is called- with a hex cap screw to clamp it in place. So the guidance I had from CNCFusion was basically to get that collar semi-tight, and then invert the screw- and rap a few times on the collar with a hollow tube or whatever- theory being, it has enough static friction to hold tight until you can get the cap screw torqued. Realistically, unless you are counterweighting the head, there will most always be a positive load on the screw- and CNCFusion says that collar is good to about 700lbs linear force before it will slip. I have not had problems with the design, though as an engineer, I dont like the setup. The bigger issue for me was/is slop in the Z dovetail- so pretty much no matter what I do I have about .003 lash. I can get that to .001 if I dont counterweight at all, and loosen the Z gib, but then you have HUGE deflection in X/Y. So it is a tradeoff.

If on the screw retaining nuts you mean those that fix the screw to the legacy thrust bearing housing, yes, I did find that I reduced lash on X by about .001 with a little tightening on that nut. Y did not seem to need so much torque- probably because the saddle is much shorter. During cutting, bets are probably off.

Just beware that you may have some real problems with the X/Y nuts binding the screws; I think the mfg just uses a cardboard template to set the mount screw locations... I had to modify the stock mounting location of the X motor bracket a bit, as it was not in the same plane as the X nut and the X thrust bearing. As you moved the table in X, the screw would begin to bind near one end of travel.

The major lash source for me was the Lovejoy connectors. With the spiral metal connections, I think .002-.003 lash in X and Y was removed...

Good luck-

I think the new deluxe kit comes with a threaded nut on the Z-axis.

I may see if I can buy just a Z-axis screw to replace my collar style screw

Mine has the threaded nut.

CR.

Same here, mine has a threaded nut also.

_____________________________________

I finally get to post some progress here. I've spent the last week and a half tracking town backlash issues and have it almost beat. I started a thread on this and here's the link: CLICK HERE (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57855).

I've since cut three of the five components needed to mount the limit switches (figure 1). I would not normally install them on a machine this small, but I plan to leave it unattended most of the time while cutting and the switches give me peace of mind.

I intalled the X Axis limit switch last weekend and plan to install the rest on Saturday. First, I placed the spacer pad on the perspective area and used a 7/32 cobalt bit as a center drill. Then, drilled four 3/16" size holes straight through. Next, these holes were tapped with an M4 x 0.7 tool (figures 2 & 3). Lastly, the switch was mounted (figure 4). This process only took an hour. I still have to intall the X Axis triggers this weekend, but I think the set up will work pretty well.

I am shocked at how fast chips can accumulate by just machining a few components :eek: (figures 5-7). Looks like I'll be starting on my enclosure a little early......

Very nice! What does your X, Y, Z travel measure?

CR.

CR, correct, I have no nuts on the Z axis. Some of the photos on the CNC Fusion web site show this setup with the deluxe kit. I assumed everybody's kit was like mine.

Extrapilot, thanks for the information! That's what I needed. As a mechanical engineer, I'm a bit disappointed with the design, too. Maybe I can compress a Belville washer or something to get a preload. I have to think about it, I guess.

The instructions on the Cnc Fusion site are sparce to say the least. Extrapilot, did you have to call them to get that information? Maybe I'm missing something, here.

Thanks guys for the information!

Bill

Very nice! What does your X, Y, Z travel measure?

CR.

This questions invites a lengthy answer......

The X and Y limit switches are installed. Before the install the X travel was 14.75in and the Y was 6.25in (I'm not kidding). If you go on the grizzly website it states that the Y travel is 5.75 in, but after the conversion I measured it to 6.25in at the extremes. Of course the travel is not centered with 0.25in more travel achieved when the table is moving away from the column.

When machining the limit trigger (5-13-08). I used the stock numbers from Grizzly but only ended up with 5.0in of travel. I observed that at these limits the X3 had a lot more room left on the ballscrews, so I removed the trigger and jogged it by hand as far as it could go. I then learned that I had almost 1.25in of untapped travel, so I machined an extended limit trigger. Now, with limits installed, the Y axis has a total travel of 5.75in.

____________________________________________________

Y Axis Limit Switch

Once the trigger was machined, I measured the distance to the exact center using a digital caliper (figure 1). Next, the trigger was installed on the left side under the table (figures 2 & 3). I made sure to give 1/8 inch clearance for the ballscrews, but forgot include clearance for the helical coupler :withstupi. Without the clearance I'd be short 1in of travel; something had to be done :idea:. I was weary of machining another trigger because of the backlog projects that are already behind schedule, but when I found out I could get another 1in of travel on top of the 1in with the coupler clearance; it was an easy choice.

Here's a shot of the original and extended trigger side by side (figure 4). Note the half moon shape cut out for the coupler clearance. Here's another shot of the extended trigger, limit switch, and switch plate assembly (figure 5).


X Axis Limit Switch

The X axis limits were far less complicated to install than the Y axis. I made two trigger blocks which were held in place by M5 screws (figure 6). These triggers were clamped to the table and leveled with a 1-2-3 block (figures 7 & 8). The M5 holes were then drilled and tapped. The entire process took about two hours. Here's a shot of the competed X limit switch assembly installed (figure 9).


Z Axis Limit Switch

Still working on it. Wasn’t going to install one at first, but after the mill head got within 1/8" on the top of the mill column on the last operation; I saw the error in my ways.

MRM-

The work looks nice. A couple of questions-
1. Aren't you leaving a bit on the table (no pun) on X with your Y-switch placement? At least with mine, I can get the table to move rightwards to the point that the X motor mount plate (left side of the table) is flush with the saddle. It would seem that the placement of the limit block, and probably the Y switch itself, would reduce that range of motion?
2. The X switch placement would be a concern to me because it would likely impact the use of most chip shield designs I know of. Maybe you would be able to just mount something at saddle level, but then there is a ton of clearance under the table for chips to get blown onto the X sxrew and rear dovetail.

Please let me know how this approach works out. I took a different approach using microswitches under the table/saddle, but it was a huge pain to get in place and I dont trust $2 microswitches. Yours looks much more robust, and easier to repair if/when needed.

Best
R

MRM-

The work looks nice. A couple of questions-
1. Aren't you leaving a bit on the table (no pun) on X with your Y-switch placement? At least with mine, I can get the table to move rightwards to the point that the X motor mount plate (left side of the table) is flush with the saddle. It would seem that the placement of the limit block, and probably the Y switch itself, would reduce that range of motion?

R

Yes, I am losing 1.022in of travel in the X axis by placing the Y axis limit switch assembly there. It's a trade-off between reliability and travel length. Like you said, these switches are swarf proof being completely sealed off from the environment. I contemplated using the cheap "Radio Shack" switches for quite some time, even bought 10 of them from eBay; but decided that peace of mind was worth more than 1in of additional X travel.

The parts I plan to cut won't be over 12in and I plan to leave the machine unattended most of the time due to my shop not being air conditioned (100+ degrees F in the summer). I don't want to be out there unless I have to.


2. The X switch placement would be a concern to me because it would likely impact the use of most chip shield designs I know of. Maybe you would be able to just mount something at saddle level, but then there is a ton of clearance under the table for chips to get blown onto the X screw and rear dovetail.

Please let me know how this approach works out. I took a different approach using micro switches under the table/saddle, but it was a huge pain to get in place and I don’t trust $2 micro switches. Yours looks much more robust and easier to repair if/when needed.

Best


Since the switches are sealed and robust, they won't need chip shields. As far as the ways and ball screw goes, I plan to use rubber sheet purchased from mcmaster. Check post #17 on this thread CLICK HERE (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29260&page=2). I have more than enough room to bolt one onto the table. Let me know if you have anymore questions.

Check your chips with a caliper, you want them to be .002 to .005 thick (rule of thumb). Adjust your depth per cut and feeds accordingly. All else looks very good and professional! With you, that is NO SURPRISE!

Check your chips with a caliper, you want them to be .002 to .005 thick (rule of thumb). Adjust your depth per cut and feeds accordingly. All else looks very good and professional! With you, that is NO SURPRISE!

Thanks Sean. I got time this weekend to work on your project if you're interested.

Regarding my issue of adjusting backlash on the Z axis (I have no adjustment nut), I just received an email from Michael Rodgers at CNCFusion saying that he will machine my ballscrew shaft for the adjustment nut for free! I'm impressed with the customer support! Well done.

Bill Box

Regarding my issue of adjusting backlash on the Z axis (I have no adjustment nut), I just received an email from Michael Rodgers at CNCFusion saying that he will machine my ballscrew shaft for the adjustment nut for free! I'm impressed with the customer support! Well done.

Bill Box

That is good news! CNCFusions customer service is second to none. It might be hard to get in contact with them sometimes, but it's worth it.

Long story short; I tried to hook up the X3 speed control to the cnc4pc C11G break-out-board and just about fried everything :mad:. Turns out you have to use two completely different power supplies when using the speed controller portion of the BOB. Just finished replacing everything (EXPENSIVE) and am ready to get back to upgrading the mill.

I've finalized the electronics and machine enclosures in CAD. I had to scale down the machine enclosure for the financial reasons mentioned above. Essentially, the roof is removed and the walls are mounted to the table top. I cut holes in the Plexiglas for clearance and will cover them with rubber flaps to contain the chips in those areas.

First project is the electronics enclosure which I'm starting tomorrow, then the machine enclosure. I'll give a more detailed report later. I think it's time to go to bed.

Kelvin @ 0100hrs :tired:

First project is the electronics enclosure which I'm starting tomorrow, then the machine enclosure.


cutting holes in the front/back panels of a 19" enclosure for the PS and drivers will be my first job on the superX3 I just put a deluxe kit on as well :) But I think I'll test on some 1/8" acrylic before starting to cut the aluminium...

I just bought the C11g, it's on it's way to my house. I'm building another wood working router and have never used a break out board before, I called him and ordered that and a spindle control unit. I bought the Taig spindle setup with motor for the new system.

Post some more pics progress bud.

Sorry to hear about the electronics malfuntion. That blows literally.

MRM RCmodels where'd you get the honeywell limit switches? I've been having swarf problems myself...lol...with the cheap radio shack switches myself...lol, and found your posting on how these are sealed and robust and knew these are the kind of switches i need.

MRM RCmodels where'd you get the honeywell limit switches? I've been having swarf problems myself...lol...with the cheap radio shack switches myself...lol, and found your posting on how these are sealed and robust and knew these are the kind of switches i need.

You have seen the light my brother. I am happy for you

Honeywell Limit Switch (http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=6422297&MPN=SZL-VL-A&R=6422297&SEARCH=6422297&DESC=SZL-VL-A)

LOL...yeah, you're right MRM...ironic that it takes a limit switch to do that...lol. Thank you, man.

Dang! Some expensive switches :)

-Jason

Dang! Some expensive switches :)

-Jason

Compared to using cheap switches that get fouled with swarf and causing your machine to implode? :nono:

Normal operations have finally resumed with the completion of the electronics enclosure front panel (Figure 1). It came out pretty well, but it came at a price; $5.00. In my machining career, I never had to use cutters smaller than 1/4in. This part required me to use 1/8in cutters and I had no clue about how fast/deep to run them. First, I tried 5 inches per minute (IPM) at 0.03 Depth of Cut (DOC); to fast, $2.50. Then, a large chunk of swarf clogged the end mill and the machine snapped off the end like a twig; not enough air, $2.50(figure 2). Finally got it right with 2 IPM at 0.03 DOC. The whole operation took ~2.5 hours.

While the machine was running I got bored and decided to build the tachometer described on the Shumatec Website. (http://www.shumatech.com/products/dro-350/add-ons.htm) It cost me a total of $5.00 (mouser.com) and only took an hour to wire up. Here's a shot of it raw (figure 3) and here's a shot of it with a healthy coating of hot glue for swarf proofing (figure 4). It’s very accurate and adds to the cool factor. I’ll make a mount for it this weekend.

One nifty tool I picked up from Shars.com is a Zero Axis Tool Setter (http://www.shars.com/products/view/1927/Precision_Magnetic_Z_Axis_Setter) (figure 5). It's now my new favorite tool! I always had to "guestimate" the tool position relative to the Z axis which caused high inaccuracies. Now, I can get it within 0.001in repeatedly :banana:.

P.S.

I've decided to abandon the spindle control option with the current X3 motor. Couldn't get it to work right and I can't risk another magic smoke party (nuts). Down the line I plan on using a servo motor/Gecko 302 combo anyway, so it's not a show stopper.

While the machine was down, I decided to install a few upgrades. First, I wired the E-Stop on the machine in series with the E-Stop on the controlled box (figure 6). I just soldered the wired on the two unused pins on the E-Stop. Second, I noticed that there are way too many wires coming off the machine now, so to consolidate most of them I installed a 10 lead connector in the spare hole in the X3 column (figure 7). I plan to run the tachometer, probe, and spindle control wire through this connector. Now that I think about it, might add another one.....

Thanks for reading,

Kelvin

I ran the first cuts on my X3 on Saturday with a 3mm endmill at about 8" per minute with 0.01" deep cuts on aluminium but I was squirting WD-40 periodically. IIRC the spindle was at about 1100. I think with the spindle going max speed the feedrate could have been increased - but that's as fast as my temporary X and Y motors can go :( Hopefully my "fast" ones will show up tomorrow.

I'm used to cutting acrylic at 30-60" per min and 0.04" (or more) deep so this seemed painfully slow :)

I was pocketing holes for the DB25's and IEC power connector in my rear panel - luckily most of my front panel holes are round so I'll just use the right sized drill for them.

You're probably right, but since I had only one bit left I didn't want to chance it.

With coolant I run 20 IPM at .008 roughly per pass on a 1/8 four flute end mill on the Tormach. Carbide bit, and it will last a very long time at that speed.

On a .5 5 flute carbide endmill, I can cut aluminum comfortably at 27 IPM .1 per pass.

Spindle at 2700 for both.

You have a Tormach? I have no doubt that the Tormach is a much more rigid machine, but I do see your point. I should be taking shallower cuts at a higher feed rate. Thanks for the tip. Plus the X3 spindle max is about 2000 RPM....for now :)

Doing a great job! Awesome stuff here

-Jason

Hey ya'll, I think I might have mentioned this before but I will mention it again. If you flip the motor pulley and the gearbox pulley that the motor pulley turns, it will give you a speed of 6000+ rpm for nothing. The motor and other pulley shaft both use the same inner diameter, and switching them back and forth is very simple if you make the pulleys the same size, then turn adaptors to replace the stuff removed from the pulleys. It is very simple, and depending on what stock you have available very cheap. Plus, going back and forth takes 30 seconds. And unless you are using big cutters or big drills, the low gear can handle most drills up to .5in and small cutters like .25in can really fly. Especially carbide and HSS with coolant.

Hey ya'll, I think I might have mentioned this before but I will mention it again. If you flip the motor pulley and the gearbox pulley that the motor pulley turns, it will give you a speed of 6000+ rpm for nothing. The motor and other pulley shaft both use the same inner diameter, and switching them back and forth is very simple if you make the pulleys the same size, then turn adaptors to replace the stuff removed from the pulleys. It is very simple, and depending on what stock you have available very cheap. Plus, going back and forth takes 30 seconds. And unless you are using big cutters or big drills, the low gear can handle most drills up to .5in and small cutters like .25in can really fly. Especially carbide and HSS with coolant.

I'll also mention it again. We need pics man!

Okay, I must have completely blanked out the request. Ill have some by the end of this week. Sorry.

Okay, I must have completely blanked out the request. Ill have some by the end of this week. Sorry.



By the end of which week?

Summary

Since my last post I have installed the following upgrades on the Seig X3: Tachometer, MM2001C 0-90V Speed Controller, axis control, and a Fogbuster CPU Controlled Solenoid Valve. These upgrades have fully automated the X3 cutting process. Now coolant, spindle speed, and axis's are under Mach 3 control.


Tachometer

The tachometer (tach) was installed on the X3 with a piece of 1/8 in aluminum bent to shape (figures 1 & 2). The shielded signal cable is routed on the left side of the head, through the E-Stop compartment, and down the cord keeper (figure 3). To active the photo transducer a simple strip of black electrical tape was attached to the spindle holder. The distance from the tape to the transducer will vary and needs to be adjusted after installation.

The tach environment is VERY electrically noisy. It was tough to get an accurate signal with the stock settings. Mach3 has a "debounce interval" (config > general config > debounce interval) setting to counter-act this. I found that starting from 2000 and working your way down was a good rule of thumb. From then on the tach was accurate within +/-10 RPM.

Next, I had to synchronize the tach with the Mach3 controller (this is where the tach made things so much easier). Since the tach accuracy is acceptable, a closed loop voltage control system was an obvious choice (ports and pins > spindle tab > check "use spindle feedback in sync mode" and "closed loop spindle control"; change PID to 0.25, 2, and 0.3). Now I only have to worry about swarf fouling the signal :devious:.


MM2001C 0-90V Speed Controller -Big Ups to Hoss for helping me out

To date I have fried THREE stock X3 speed controllers. One magic smoke moment was my fault, the other two were just POS. I was two seconds away from calling Grizzly for another when I found the MM2001C on surplus center.com (figure 4). It features adjustable potentiometer settings for just about everything you'll need: max speed, min speed, acceleration, torque, etc. It even has a spot for an E-Stop connection. Did I mention it comes with its own potentiometer and costs only $69.99 = half of the stock X3 control? Lastly, the performance is so much smoother.

Adjusting the Mach3 voltage output was done by first measuring the voltage across the speed control S1 and S2 leads while the spindle is at full speed (figure 13). Next, this voltage was emulated in Mach 3 by adjusting the steps per value (config > motor tuning > spindle > steps per) and measuring across the analog output on the C11G until the target voltage is achieved. I noticed early on that if the analog voltage was increased you can get higher-than-average spindle speeds. Even got up to 3000 RPM at one point, but the speed control really didn't like that. To stay safe I set the top speed to 2250. After a few test cuts I felt pretty safe about the slight speed increase.

In the middle of the MM2001C installation I decided to keep the manual function on the machine. Couldn't quite get my head around how to wire it until I went to hossmachine.info (hoss is my hero) and saw he did it successfully on the X2. The best thing is that the original switch FOR/REV switch on the X3 is re-used. Here's the wiring diagram (figure 12). Now the FOR/REV switch is Mach3/Maunual, the original potentiometer is replaced with the one that came with MM2001C (figures 5 & 6).

The E-Stop connection on the speed control is Normally Open (NO) so one of the wires on the X3 had to be moved and resoldered (figures 7 & 8). Now the speed control E-Stop is NO and the CNC controller box E-Stop is Normally Closed (NC) both on the same stock X3 SPDT switch.


Axis Control

See next post, too many pics.


Fogbuster CPU Controlled Solenoid Valve

Called the guys at Fogbuster for a 2W Solenoid MAC valve (figures 9 & 10). Cost was ~$35.00. Connected it the C11G relay.


Side Note Z Axis Limit Switch

Finally got it installed (figure 11).I had it installed like in the picture at first, but the mill head broke off all the bolts, so I routed the cable through the back of the case instead.

Love all the info I have gathered from this thread. I actually did the swap pulley thing on my X3. No it is not a 30 second fix, you need spacers or differnt pulley's. I got some from SDP and at a estimated 6000 rpm a 1/4 2F FEM does awesome work on 6061. I tried a 1/8" and my chips actually hot and reattaching to the stock, so I have to speed things up. This was with a .05 DOC and 20 IPM.

I can't wait to get my tach done and flood coolant going.

Love all the info I have gathered from this thread. I actually did the swap pulley thing on my X3. No it is not a 30 second fix, you need spacers or differnt pulley's. I got some from SDP and at a estimated 6000 rpm a 1/4 2F FEM does awesome work on 6061. I tried a 1/8" and my chips actually hot and reattaching to the stock, so I have to speed things up. This was with a .05 DOC and 20 IPM.

I can't wait to get my tach done and flood coolant going.

Dneisler,

Good to hear from you. Thanks. I'm swamped in the shop right now. Could you make me a set of those spacers and pulleys? PM me and we'll talk.

Thanks,

MRM

Dneisler,

Good to hear from you. Thanks. I'm swamped in the shop right now. Could you make me a set of those spacers and pulleys? PM me and we'll talk.

Thanks,

MRM


I just bought mine. I can send you the part numbers I used if that will help?

Sure, what are the part numbers? Did it require any fabrication? Can you please post pics of the finished install?

Here are pics of the completed CNC controller box. All of the engraving and mounting holes were done with the X3. Everything works and looks awesome! I would have liked to engrave the wording, but haven't got to that mod yet :(.I'm still debating whether to install another 60mm exhaust cooling fan in the lid of the container.

Right now I'm working on a Y axis mod so I can extend the travel to at least 7.2". The biggest piece I plan to cut is 6in in diameter so I'll probably use the extra room to maneuver the cutter around the work piece. After that I can start doing what I bought the machine for in the first place.....making machine#2.

I wouldn't worry about another 60mm - I have 2 80mm exchanging air in my enclosure and the Gecko heat sink is mounted inside and has a 120mm fan directly on it and that's it. So that 120 you're running plus the Gecko heat sinks on the outside cut internal heat significantly I'd assume. I think you'll ne just fine.

Great Job Kelvin!

Here are the details of the belt conversions I didn, not 100% complete but...

X3 Belt Upgrade (http://www.donald-neisler.com/?p=6)

MRM,

I'm also using the Honeywell Limit Switches that you're using. I noticed that on your Z-axis that you only have an upper limit, while on the X and Y-axis you use a single switch. I'm wondering if having 2 switches wired in series for the Z-axis makes sense. I don't have Mach 3, therefore I'm not sure if it is using the switches as home position switches or as range switches.

Thanks for your very informative write-up. I'm in the process of installing the CNC Fusion Deluxe Kit in my X3.

Has anyone taken apart their spindle?

Anyone lapping their Gibs?

Paul

MRM,

I'm also using the Honeywell Limit Switches that you're using. I noticed that on your Z-axis that you only have an upper limit, while on the X and Y-axis you use a single switch. I'm wondering if having 2 switches wired in series for the Z-axis makes sense. I don't have Mach 3, therefore I'm not sure if it is using the switches as home position switches or as range switches.

Thanks for your very informative write-up. I'm in the process of installing the CNC Fusion Deluxe Kit in my X3.

Has anyone taken apart their spindle?

Anyone lapping their Gibs?

Paul

True, I was only interested in having an upper limit on the Z axis. My reasoning was that the end mills, drill bit, and metal stock were all different lengths so if a lower limit switch was installed it would see very little action. As a work-around, I always check the lowest extreme when loading G-code in mach3. If the max depth is lower than the stock = BAD. Post some pics of your install. Love to see them.

Just in case anyone is wondering... The thread is not dead. I'm moving in a few weeks so most of my time is spent packing and dealing with the mortgage broker :(. I am working on a sound suppressing enclosure for my compressor. I'll post pics when I'm done.

Well for grins I lapped the X and Y-Axis gibs. As it turned out the Z-Axis gib is scrapped, so I left it alone.

2 things that I noticed when installing the CNCFusion Deluxe Kit Z-axis stepper bracket it conflicts with the tapered pin between each set of mounting screws for the Z-axis column.

2nd thing....when I removed the Head Bracket (Z-axis dovetail bracket)....the tapered pins used to maintain the alignment of the head are manually drilled and the placement is random therefore you can't easily replace the Head Bracket....which I was going to do in an effort to add a one-shot lube device to the system (by buying an extra Head Bracket and using the system to machine the other Head Bracket). Anyway as it turns out the Head Bracket is already grooved to support the one-shot lube, so I just drilled out the ball spring lube joints and tapped for 10-32 and used some fitting to accept 1/8" polyethylene tubing. I'd add pics but my Cannon S50 is well.....tits up....

I started installing the Z Axis and ran into a problem. I think cncfusion turned my Z Axis ballscrew too short. First shot is the Z Axis assembled (figure 1). Second is a pic of the Z Axis installed (figure 2). The top bearing has a 7.38mm gap between it and the ballscrew (figures 3-4) (nuts). Has anyone ran into this in their kit?

Very nice work but I was wondering how the heck you managed to pull this one off. I'm stuck at this step on my X3/CNCfusion conversion right now. I have the original Z leadscrew, but I can't figure out how to remove that bottom end thrust bearing and put it on the Z ballscrew. Any advice?

BTW, does anyone know where I could find ANY documentation about how to do the X3/CNCfusion conversion (and how to install CNCfusions gas spring kit). Perhaps I'm just searching for the wrong thing, but I can't find anything whatsoever =/. Thanks!

THIS is very helpful about disassembling your mill:

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/prepguides/X3%20Mill%20Preparation%20Guide.pdf

CR.

Here is some good conversion info:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=53421

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23517

CR.

These photos are helpful:

http://cncfusion.com/images/X3mounts/Z-axis/X3photos.html

http://cncfusion.com/images/X3mounts/X3photos.html

http://cncfusion.com/images/X3mounts/Y-axis/X3photos.html

Gas spring:

http://cncfusion.com/images/Gas%20Spring%20X3/gas%20spring%20X3.html

CR.

Wow! great info CR.

Chris forget getting that getting that last thrust bearing off....one of the races on mine was pressed on. Go to VXB.com and get yourself 2 each 51101 ($2.95 each) which are the thrust bearings on my Grizzly X3. I believe the CNCFusion site shows a different part number....the difference is the stack height, mine are 9 mm and the one on the CNCFusion site are 12 mm.

Also, my CNCFusion Deluxe Kit did not include the two washers, so if you use the 51101's get yourself a precison hardened washer of 2 to 3 mm in thickness. Also you should try to get a spanner wrench for that nut that holds everything together...I was able to use some vice grips compressing 2 thin pieces of pine over the polished journal to keep the screw from turning as I tightened the nut with a small crescent wrench.

If you find the spanner....let us know. It should come in handy once I determine the amount of backlash on the Z-axis.

Later,
Paul

Chris forget getting that getting that last thrust bearing off....one of the races on mine was pressed on. Go to VXB.com and get yourself 2 each 51101 ($2.95 each) which are the thrust bearings on my Grizzly X3. I believe the CNCFusion site shows a different part number....the difference is the stack height, mine are 9 mm and the one on the CNCFusion site are 12 mm.

Also, my CNCFusion Deluxe Kit did not include the two washers, so if you use the 51101's get yourself a precison hardened washer of 2 to 3 mm in thickness. Also you should try to get a spanner wrench for that nut that holds everything together...I was able to use some vice grips compressing 2 thin pieces of pine over the polished journal to keep the screw from turning as I tightened the nut with a small crescent wrench.

If you find the spanner....let us know. It should come in handy once I determine the amount of backlash on the Z-axis.

Later,
Paul


Thanks for all the help and links guys - they're really useful. On the Z axis I'm still having a little trouble though (sorry for the threadjack =/). I can't figure out how to remove the metal block that mounts the leadscrew on the bottom end. The PDF linked earlier (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/prepguides/X3%20Mill%20Preparation%20Guide.pdf) on step 54 shows to remove the pin, but I've been utterly unable to do this. How exactly am I supposed to set this all up with the ballscrew from CNCFusion? Sorry for the newbie question, but my ignorance has my hopelessly stuck at the moment.

That pin is TAPERED you have to beat it out with a pin punch--from the SMALL end. Make sure the shaft is sitting on a very solid surface--like an anvil or concrete--or the punch will just bounce.

CR.

Hi,

I bought the same limit switches you are using and have taken a look at your mounting method. It didn't sound like it was a big issue to you to sacrifice the 1" on your X table travel but I'll mention it non the less. I think I see a way to use the same switches without that sacrifice.

Instead of moving the entire switch up so their is clearance for the lower part of the switch arm, what about machining a shorter arm (in both lengthwise directions) that will clear without the added spacer. Instead of mounting the triggers to the surface near the ways, mount the triggers to the surface that is stepped below.

I could be overlooking something and sorry for the roundabout description. I tried my best to do it accurately.

Thanks,
Adam

Nice score on the limit switches. Your idea would provide more travel, but on my machine the resonance at the extremes of travel became immense. Also, I tightened the gibs to increase cutting accuracy. At the ends of travel the X axis, the table would only go so far without jamming, but if I loosen the gibs I would loose accuracy. The 13.5in of X axis travel was a compromise. Let me know how it turns out.

Kelvin

Kelvin,

Getting ready to cut wood for the base of the enclosure tomorrow afternoon.

Were you happy with the 46 in X 29 in base of your enclosure? Did you center the X3 in the middle of the 46 in. side?

I'm pretty happy with the working envelope of the stand and yes I did mount it in the center. I would have mounted it a few inches to the right if I could do it again. Most of my X axis travel is on the right side of the table, so centering the base wasn't the greatest idea. Take pics when you're done?