Thanks again for all the input, as I have made up a 12VDC relay which plugs on to the PC's power supply. The relay works fine, and the 300 Watt power supply appears to be unaffected :)

After the holiday, I'll remove the drawer and some of its contents to rewire the fans! This way they will be on regardless of which half of the system I start first!

I had looked at the motherboard's System FAN connection, and ran another test for several hours. With a new 3-wire fan attached, it never started! Apparently, that is governed by a specific rise in temperature which was never achieved! Or I had some funky setting in the BIOS set wrong! The fan also has a 2-wire socked which I connected to the power supply, this started the fan and it's RPM was evident in the BIOS! So that proved the fan was OK :)

Have a good 4th of July everyone!

Mr. Widgit

I know how long everyone has been waiting to see a video of this new machine in motion, so here goes! Bear in mind that I have not finished tweaking the software for all the motor settings, so this may not look or sound as best as it could!
This video is BIG :) (88.861 MB) around 4-minutes of recording, as it runs the g-code of the "RoadRunner" demo.
http://widgitmaster.com/video/100_3667.MOV

Mr Widgit

Eric,

Try this video codec it might compress much smaller.


http://easynews.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/drdivx/drdivx2-2.0.1-b7-setup.exe

The other choice would be to post your videos on You Tube, they have alot more bandwith and its free.

Have a great Fourth

Jeff...

If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all!

After I finished the Video, the computer crashed with a blue screen depicting a memory error! Now the dam thing just keeps booting to the memory error all by it's self!

So much for showing of this machine to friends this weekend!
S&iT :mad:

I just handed my Girlfriend a $100 bill, and she drove off looking for another 1-Gig DDR1-3200 stick of memory!
Hopefully that will fix the problem!
Widgit

It was me. I crashed it. :) It always happens to me. I was downloading it when it went down. I tried continuing the download but then ended it. That's when I saw your previous posts.

You may get sticker shock when you see the bill after 100,000+ people download that large file. I recommend reducing it as jalessi suggested.

Have a nice holiday and weekend to all!

CarveOne

so if i show up will ya hand me a $100.00 bill too? :) sry to hear about the problems.but glad it is moving now,bet you nearly hit the roof when it finally came to "life",congrats on a first class machine build,and thanks for letting us watch from our own homes :)

I just handed my Girlfriend a $100 bill, and she drove off looking for another 1-Gig DDR1-3200 stick of memory!
Hopefully that will fix the problem!
Widgit
I missed this the first time I read it (and d/l the vid). I have never had memory fail on any of the dozens of PCs I've built bought or used. The only thing I know to kill ten is a static shock (ie high voltage low current zaps). Might I suggest you add some EMI shielding between the CNC components like that monster transformer and the PC. A metal wall, a perforated foil, something. Alternatively, create zones or cells that keep them separated.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61709&d=1213797847
Looks like the RAM is close tot he transformer with no shield. Alternatively, put the original PC case in there sans rear and front bezel.

FWIW,
Jay

OK,
This week has been a disaster, the PC in the V-Router has crashed completely! Of course this happened while I had a house full of guests for the 4th of July party! After replacing everything one at a time trying to disclose the problem; consequently, the power supply and the hard drives were bad! Odd combination? The result of this mess is that I now have a new motherboard with two 1G sticks of RAM, a newer 350W ATX power supply, two new hard drives, and a freshly installed Windows XP system! And a lot less money! :mad:

After all that I proceeded to install the dual LPT port card, which again refuses to install because the drivers are not digitally signed (Chinese junk) I have purchases three of these LPT cards from various stores at a total cost of $80+, and they are all made by the same unknown company! This V-Router needs more pins than one port can supply, so it is imperative that I install another LPT port!

My question is WHY are we still using 1980's technology? :confused: Today's motherboards have a vast selection of ultra high speed ports to connect various devices to, wouldn't a connection to USB 2.0 be a lot easier to work with? This whole section of the V-Router has me frustrated to no end, and I don't see why the obsolete LPT port is so darn important! Nor do I know how to get a 2nd port installed! If I don't get a 2nd port, then the MPG is history and the console panel needs to be remade!

Happy holiday my a$$

:eek:ANGRY:eek:

Widgit

calm down :)

Thats the function of the forums, to help you in the areas where your knowledge is not as good as your machining skills :) its not really difficult to have an MPG going or for the case any switch on the second parallel port.

BUT, 1st you need to configure it properly. Most of the peripheral boards such as LPT come with unsigned drivers, I never had problem installing them, at least in XP.

Once you install the new parallel port and its drivers you need to go to windows device manager > Ports > Your new parallel port and open the properties of it. Once there you go to the resources tab and take note of the 1st IO Range shown there, for example I saw CC00 , EC00, 0378 etc, its not a fixed value thats why you need to check.

Once you have this value, you open Mach3>Port&Pins menu entry>and you write this value into the PORT#2 field, but you will need to add the prefix "0x"before the value you wrote down above, for example 0xCC00, 0xEC00 etc. Also check use ports 2-9 as inputs. Once you do this, restart Mach3

This should be enough to have the port properly configured in Mach3, but you still need to configure the MPG, so you go again to the ports&pins section but this time to the Encoder/MPG tab and add the pins you used to wire the A and B signals from your MPG and you must tell mach3 that you connected them to port2 by putting 2 in A-port# and B-Port#

This should be enough to have the MPG working, but now you need to adjust it, go to Function CFGs>Calibrate MPG and adjust it following the instructions and finish the procedure by pressing SAVE then OK

Good Luck
PS: dropme a PM if you want my MSN or gtalk accnts :)

Just for the record, I haven't given up yet! After a long rest, I worked on the wiring in the drawer. First I added a 12VDC fan relay, and rewired the fans accordingly.

As for the printer ports, that remains an issue! Configuring the BIOS & MACH3 software for a 2nd LPT port is no problem, it's getting Windows XP to accept the drivers which came with the PCI card. After six hours of installing & uninstalling the drivers, combined with numerous reboots. Windows refuses to accept the drivers. The PCI card is so sterile, I have no Idea what model or chip number to search for! So at this point, I will be excluding the MPG due to lack of pins! As all the extra pins will be needed for the AC relay board.

Where do you buy LPT cards PEU?

Does anyone make a modern high quality breakout board for USB?

Widgit

NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007) has some good prices. I used a Rosewill USB card and it worked great. SIIG (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815150112)is a high $$ manufacturer but supposedly a solid piece of hardware. Stay well away from Startech ... for anything.

The only USB I know of is USBCNC (http://www.usbcnc.com/). But it replaces Mach3 with it's own software. You are right in that it's strange there aren't more USB drivers ... but if it takes re-inventing the software, I can see that as a barrier.

Are you suggesting a USB LPT card?

Eric,

Don't get frustrated with a lpt port card we have used thousands of them, they work.

It is possible you need to make a ajustment in the windows device manager.

See attached pdf

Also you may have to assign or shadow the irq in the bios.

Jeff...

have you thought about using the smoothstepper board? it has a usb interface and simulates 2 parallel ports!!

http://www.warp9td.com/

i know, computers can be soooo frustrating!!!

Eric, has anybody suggested you look into the Smoothstepper board from Warp9? - www.warp9td.com

It connects to your PC via USB, runs under Mach3 and can replace 2 printer ports. It also allows a much higher pulse rate than Mach3. I have one, and although I've only used it for a couple of hours so far it seems to work very well indeed. You probably wouldn't even need to change your wiring - just plug it straight in with the LPH26 to DB25 adaptor cables Warp9 offers... It really is very easy.

Perhaps others who have one and have more experience using it might care to comment?

Jason

Edit: Oops, I see someone beat me to it :)

I mentioned the Smooth Stepper to Eric, however since it has just been released I suggested he wait a month or two before implementing one.

Jeff...

I mentioned the Smooth Stepper to Eric, however since it has just been released I suggested he wait a month or two before implementing one.

Jeff...


Wise counsel...

I would rather have let someone else be the guinea pig too, but I had no choice - with 2mm pitch ballscrews and 8000 cpr servos my new machine would have been painfully slow :)

Where do you buy LPT cards PEU?


Walk in local shops here in Buenos Aires.

So if I understand your problem the provided unsigned drivers don't work on your windows? is it XP right?

In this case you can go the hacker way and find the drivers for yourself, open windows device manager and your new LPT card properties, go to the details tab and look for Hardware id in the pulldown, write down the vendor (VEN) and deviceId (ID) each one is usually 4 hexadecimal numbers, for example you can see something like this:

PCI\VEN_104C&DEV_8023 (this is my firewire port) so in this case you should google for VEN 104C DEV 8023 driver xp
ITs not 100% sure you will find your driver, but it never failed on me, even less probable with a LPT port purchased recently...

Good Luck

Pablo

Jason,


Would you tell us how the Smooth Stepper is working for you and if you have run into any setbacks using one so far?

I am very interested in the product, and am would like to use them on our new machines.

Maybe you could start a new thread talking about the Smooth Stepper.

Eric sorry for hijacking your thread.

Jeff...

Are you suggesting a USB LPT card?
No, sorry for the confusion. I try to only recommend companies or products I have personal experience with. I was trying to endorse the Rosewill products (I owned one of their USB cards). I don't think a USB to parallel dongle would work.

Jay

Jason,


Would you tell us how the Smooth Stepper is working for you and if you have run into any setbacks using one so far?



Yes, sure - that's a good idea.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=472565

Eric, sorry too about the thread hijack, keep up the great work!

Jason

Eric, if you need a siig card I have an extra card available, pay for shipping. It is the version that IH uses with their mills and is simple and robust. Plus the drivers are xp compatible. I've used two of the cards for months now with not problems.

Thanks for all the suggestions! It appears that trying to save money by using all the old PC parts I had in my closet, their persistent failures created a real mess!

Jeff (jalessi) has located the correct drivers for the LPT cards, and I have ordered a pair of 120MB SATA hard drives. The hard drives will be setup in a RAID configuration, as the new motherboard supports this feature. I have also ordered a new 140W ATX power supply with connectors for SATA hard drives. Thanks for all your help Jeff :)

While waiting for the new PC parts to arrive, I dismantled the router & console from the base table. Then I removed the contents of the drawer, as both the table frame and drawer need to be painted glossy black, a good match for the Delrin I think!

One good thing that has come out of this ball of stress, is that after the LPT drivers finally went in I had 5 LPT ports to choose from! No shortage of pins now :)

While the parts are being painted at my friend's auto shop, I'll be making room in the garage for this puppy to be permanently parked!

Thanks again!

Widgit

Very good news widgitmaster!!

I'm glad that it's finally coming together for you now.

CarveOne

Hi All,
So far I have replaced the entire PC, and setup two hard drives with a RAID-1 configuration! Because the Machine's table & drawer are being painted, I have the PC setup on my dining room table again :)

Now that I'm using RAID, Jeff strongly suggested I add a UPS to the system! According to my calculations, the entire machine draws 1135 watts of power! So my 1400 watt UPS should handle everything! Now that I look back, it may have been one of Florida's power brownouts that killed the previous PC!

After installing Win-XP Home on the RAID-1 drives, I tested the RAID by putting another blank drive in place of SATA #2. The BIOS successfully re-mirrored the drives, and XP booted perfectly!

Next I tried to download & install the power management software from the Tripp Lite web site, but XP kept giving me an error message stating that it was unable to find JAVA! So I Googled up "JAVA XP" and found out there is a conflict between SUN Microsystems & Microsoft (No surprise there) Then I tried to download & install the JAVA files, but the Power management software still could not locate it :confused:

Oh well, a little progress is better than no progress!

Widgit

Now that I'm using RAID, Jeff strongly suggested I add a UPS to the system! According to my calculations, the entire machine draws 1135 watts of power! So my 1400 watt UPS should handle everything! Now that I look back, it may have been one of Florida's power brownouts that killed the previous PC!
FYI, the RAID is going to give you a hardware backup of whatever you have on your hard drives. If this is your primary PC for CAD, CAM, and whatever else ... then good move. However, if the MB get's zapped, you will still have to start all over unless it's the exact same MB. In my case, I RAID just my data drives since my files are independent of the operating system. I've lost a drives worth of photos and the feeling it leaves you with is awful. What might make more sense is a network drive where you can share the files between a main PC and the one on this machine.

As for the UPS. I know you know UPS stands for uninterpretable power supply but you may not understand what it's intended use is. In your case, if your PC is drawing 1135 W (that way too high for just the PC I'm positive) ten 1400W system may provide a few seconds worth of backup. More likely the PC and monitor draw 150 to 200W. The idea is to give you time to shut the PC down before the battery is exhausted. I wouldn't plug the geckos in the UPS ... surge suppressor yes. In fact, investing in a whole house surge suppressor isn't a bad idea either.

Are you adding or planning to add any internal shielding to the MB section of your drawer to the rest of your circuit ... specifically the transformer? Notice that the PC PS is shielded, the geckos are shielded. My two cents.

FWIW,
Jay

OK, thanks to Jeff, I now have the correct software for my UPS!
As for using the RAID on data only, I think that's a good idea, but I wish you had said that prior to my installing Win-XP for the 9th time! If the system crashes, then that will be my next choice!

Now, I called Tripp Lite, gave them the model & serial numbers of my UPS. They told me it uses a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) Sine Wave for battery output power!

So I have a question for Mr Gecko (Marris Fremanis), as to the use of this UPS for the entire system, which includes four Gecko G202's !

Can this UPS be used?

Widgit

Eric,

The mirrored drives will always contain all your data software programs etc...

If the motherboard fails the data will still be on the drives, finding a replacement motherboard that will work with your hard drive will not be a issue.

A catastrophic failure could still wipe out your entire system, so how about using a 8 or 16 gigabyte USB flash drive to back up your critical files.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0280099

Build bridges not walls...

Jeff

... the use of this UPS for the entire system, which includes four Gecko G202's !

Can this UPS be used?

Please note that when you are powering your PC and geckos from the UPS and the AC power fails for some reason, the spindle will stall and steppers of your router are still moving on(for a while, at least), as nothing have happened.

The UPS is meant to provide enough power for PC to shut it down correctly, to prevent brownout or power failure crashing the HDD's read/write head's to the disks (and damage it). Some better UPS'es have incorporated surge arrestor as well, tho it will not help in near vicinity of lightning.

Please note that when you are powering your PC and geckos from the UPS and the AC power fails for some reason, the spindle will stall and steppers of your router are still moving on(for a while, at least), as nothing have happened.

The UPS is meant to provide enough power for PC to shut it down correctly, to prevent brownout or power failure crashing the HDD's read/write head's to the disks (and damage it). Some better UPS'es have incorporated surge arrestor as well, tho it will not help in near vicinity of lightning.



When I said ENTIRE (1135W) system, that included the spindle!
I don't expect to get 10 minutes out of it, but enough time to stop & shut down the whole system! Florida Power blinks frequently all day & night, due to salt on the lines & frequent lightning strikes. So a cleaner AC is all I'm after!

Widgit

When I said ENTIRE (1135W) system, that included the spindle!
I don't expect to get 10 minutes out of it, but enough time to stop & shut down the whole system! Florida Power blinks frequently all day & night, due to salt on the lines & frequent lightning strikes. So a cleaner AC is all I'm after!

Widgit
Sorry, missed that.
Anyway, under full power, 1400W should give you 7-8 minutes of running time. So you might get even the 10 min. with 1135W.
The spec of the UPS usually gives the running time under full/half load.

Just a word of caution on using the PWM (also called "modified" sine wave) on motors and transformers. A PWM "sine wave" is simply square waves stacked on top of each other, and most UPS supplies only have a 2 tiered output, resulting in an ugly output. see http://www.panelectron.hu/webshop/images/square_modified_sinewave.jpg for an image.

A PC uses a switching powersupply and does not care about this, but your transformers rely on continuously varying AC current to produce the proper output. When you feed them stepped DC square waves, very bad things can happen. The transformer is a giant inductor, and inductors produce a voltage relative to the change in current passing thru them (V=
L dI/Dt). The downward slope of the sine wave is approximated as an abrupt decrease in current, resulting in a large voltage spike. It is with this rapid switching of an inductor that stun guns create 100,000V from a 9V battery. While every transformer design is different, the fast changes in voltage combined with near DC voltage are never reccomended. You may only see small voltage fluctuations and a small hum, or there could be catastrophic problems with a loud squealing sound produced by the magnetic field in the tranformer vibrating the coils. As a test, hook up some large resistors in place of the geckos. If you dont have large resistors, use light bulbs, just add them to a live circuit one at a time because they are low resistance when cold and adding 500W of bulbs at the flick of a switch can draw 10,000W for a few micro seconds. Light switches can handle this, many relays and electronics can not.

If in doubt, just add more capacitance to your supply, it should be able to absorb small brownouts already and 2 seconds of power should be all that is needed for e-stop to kick in and stop everything.

Running the spindle on the PWM output is dicey depending on the style of motor and what it uses for speed control if applicable. Running the motor on the UPS for a few minutes here and there is not nearly as riskey as the transformer, but long term, it tends to be hard on most styles of motors in one way or another.

John K.

I guess that answers my question regarding the Gecko's!
Now I have to re-think the UPS application, so that it only protects the PC!

A little disappointing, but very educational!
Thanks John!

Widgit

Hi Widgit,

Have you configured your E stop and pause switches, In my case I am planning to have estop work on 24v dc supply, and also work on giving a pulse to the drives and Mach when activated,

As all my E stop switches are wired NC any power off means that ESTOP is activated - so that any residual power in the capacitors is not used for motor movements ( in my case the DC servo's), what I need to do is to keep alive the breakout board and the computer so that the ESTOP is also known by Mach and it stops inline there, further we have a option of elongating the time the computer and BOB stays on by using different type of UPS(longer backup ones) , and hence enable continuation of work once main supply is on after a short interruption.

again when we need to keep the BOB powered by the UPS we need a SMPS type of wall wart to power it.

Hope it will help, also let me know if I am wrong in my thinking here.

RGDS
Irfan

Hi Wigit whats up no posts for a while now I have ben following this build every day for the last 100+ days your fabrication skill is absolutely amazing I just hope your electronic problems have not put you off. You have the makings of a wonderful machine don,t let a couple minor problems put you off. I wish I was close by to help you sort these problems out it would not take more than a couple hours to have that machine up and running perfectly.

You are so close go for it.


Keith.

Thanks Keith!

Actually, it has been raining strong every day for a week now, and the painter has not been able to transport the base & drawer for the much wanted paint job!

All the PC related problems have been solved, so as soon as the parts are painted I will assemble the machine and start playing with it again!

In the mean time, I have had an opportunity to do a few things that I have been putting off like adding up all the expenses for this project! Both my lady friend and I have gone into sticker shock, as the number has exceeded $9000 :eek:

So I have been frantically trying to make some much needed money by finishing up on some missing parts so that I could assemble and sell the last few Midi-Routers! Also to build 5 new Wide-Routers, and 10 new Mini-Routers! Hopefully I'll be able to finish all this and recover some of my investments through sales!

I may be retired, but I NEVER sit still!

Widgit

Time for a quick update!
The table base and drawer have been painted, and arrived back in the house today! It looks fantastic with a glossy black finish!

Now I have decided to assemble it in the back office, instead of in the garage. Because the hot metal chips would do too much damage to the exposed wiring and plastic parts.

There is plenty of room in the back room for this machine, but I will have to re-arrange everything, and auction off a lot of stuff on eBay to make more room!

The PC's power supply has been replaced with a 450W unit, so the mounting bracket will need to be modified slightly.

As for the UPS, I have decided to get a low profile Rack-Mount UPS which will fit under the machine,the UPS will only support the PC.

When the machine is running, I will post images and movies!

Widgit

Wow the table looks great in gloss black Eric! Good luck with the rebuild, hopefully you don't come across any other PC gremlins...

So far, I have completely reassembled the machine it the back office. The new PC power supply had short cables, and would not reach the motherboard connection. So I searched the web and found an ATX extension around 12" long.

The new SATA cables connecting the hard drives to the motherboard are really easy to knock loose, as the cables are very thick & rigid. The plugs do not snap on, they slide on loose which is not good!

Now, for some reason none of my settings in Mach3 are working, and I have been unable to get the breakout board to communicate with the software. So I'll be calling Jeff again to debug & reconfigure everything!

Most of my time has been in the shop, as I'm working as fast as I can to make 5 Wide-Routers, 10 Mini-Routers, and eventually another 10 Midi-Routers! This is the only way I can pay for the V-Router! THe only problem is that I'm too darn tired to play with the new machine! :(

Do they make better SATA cables?

Widgit

I'm not sure if they make a better SATA cable, but I've use a drop of RTV to secure cables to their connectors in the past. Its not the best solution, but it is cheap and easy to remove and reapply in the future.

On mission critical systems a dab of hot melt glue is used after the cable is attached, it is ready to put into service in five minutes.

Jeff...

More Progress!
So far I have the machine's limit switches setup & working, along with the three motors. The breakout board & Mach3 are communicating with each other except for the Relay Board!

The 4-relay board is controlled through three output pins:
Out1 - pin 1
Out2 - pin 14
Out3 - pin 16

The relays have three terminals, NO, COM, NC
I have the power feed entering through the COM terminal, and the controlled output exiting NO

Here is the problem:

In Mach3, I can toggle the spindle and hear the relay's latch. I can also visually see the red square toggle on/off in Mach3's diagnostics page and see the LED's light up. But when I run a G-Code, the block also toggles but the spindle does not come on.

So I reversed the board terminals from NO to NC, and now the spindle comes on when the g-code is finished!

I have tried several combinations of settings for the pins in Mach3, but the spindle does not start when the board is using the NO terminal. Now I would logically expect the spindle to be OFF until needed, not the other way around!

What gives?

Have you tried moving to another relay on the board? It's possible that the NO contact is bad. This is something of a long shot but easy to test either by moving to another relay or testing for voltage on the terminal. Be sure to test for voltage with a load and without a load.

And you're sure about the correct router connections from the relay terminals?

I thought I remember that this was working a few weeks ago, didn't you post that you had the spindle correctly being controlled? I realize a lot has changed since then but wanted to verify whether this worked at one time.

When I troubleshoot relays, I always check the coil circuit and the contact circuits for continuity and voltage. It's easy to assume something, testing everthing helps clarify the situation. Having a relay controlled by the computer only adds complexity and opportunities for misplaced assumption.

I also like to try an isolation /divide and conquer approach. Start in the middle and work towards each end of the system. In your case, I'd probably apply voltage to the relay coil to actuate the relay and test for continuity on the NO / COM terminals, Then I'd deactivate the coil and test for continuity on the NC / COM terminals. The results of this test would tell you what to test next. If it tests as expected put the spindle back in and verify it works as expected. You'll quickly narrow down the trouble this way.

Hope this helps. Who's relay board is it?

In Mach3, I can toggle the spindle and hear the relay's latch. I can also visually see the red square toggle on/off in Mach3's diagnostics page and see the LED's light up. But when I run a G-Code, the block also toggles but the spindle does not come on.

Have you tested the toggling of the spindle not in GCode but manually? Do you have the signal setup correctly in Ports and Pins? That is where I would look first.
Can you take a screen shot of your setting for mine and others review ... another set of eyes never hurts.

Jay

Eric,

Have you checked to see if the relay board has a defective solder joint or maybe a trace on the P.C.B. that is not connected between the N.O. relay connection and the wire terminal block?

Look at the bottom of the board using your optivisors.

Jeff...

Thanks Guys, but. . . .
I have two NEW relay boards, and I get the same problem with both. It doesn't matter if I set Mach3 to Active-Low or Active-High as they still toggle correctly. I have looked at both boards under a 10x Lupe, and the traces and solder joints look good!

Tonight I will write an email to Campbell Designs, and ask for their help!

Eric

I thought you were saying that the relay engages (and LEDs on the break out board (BoB) and relay board (RB) both light up) but on re-reading you might have meant that the LED graphic in Mach lights up. Did I get this wrong?

If you tried two different relay boards (and two different ribbon cables from the relay board to the break out board) then you can work backwards to the breakout board and then to the parallel port and then to Mach.

If the relay isn't closing and the LEDs are dark on the RB did you check for voltage between pins 1 & 2,3,4,&5 on connector J22 of your breakout board?

Pins 1&2 supply the relay coil for the first relay, pins 1&3 for the second relay, etc. If the BoB LED lights up for Out1 there should be voltage between pins 1 & 2 of J22 and the first relay should engage and there should be continuity between the COM and NO terminals on the relay board.

Gordon

When I toggle the spindle in Mach3, the box in Mach3 lights up, the LED on the BOB lights up, and the LED on the RB lights up. But the NO circuit stays open. This is true for all 4 relays.

When I toggle the spindle in Mach3, the box in Mach3 lights up, the LED on the BOB lights up, and the LED on the RB lights up. But the NO circuit stays open. This is true for all 4 relays.

Sounds like the relays aren't getting enough signal voltage (or current) to pull the relay closed. What voltage are they and what voltage are you feeding them on the signal side, not the AC side?

Edit: I tried to find any documentation on the Campbell site ... no luck. But it also looks like there is only one way to connect the parallel relay board.

J22 connection for a relay PCB containing 4 relays
Pin 1 = 12vdc All coils
Pin 2 = K1 coil
Pin 3 = K2 coil
Pin 4 = K3 coil
Pin 5 = K4 coil
Normally open contacts are connected to screw terminals.

Clip the ground clip of your meter or scope to TP4 (Pcgnd) and the +
lead to TP5 (PC5v) to read the +5 volt for the PC side. Note: there are
two separate 5 volt supply’s. One is to power the Gecko drives. The second
one is used on the limit input side to power the chips. This keeps the
grounds separate when powering the Gecko drives.

Move the ground clip to TP2 (RGND) and the + lead to TP3 (Step5v) to read
the 5 volts then to TP1 (+12v) to test the 12 volts on the controlled
equipment side.

Have you tried a different load on the NO contacts other than the router, say a light bulb? Or instead, have you measured and verified no continuity between the NO and COM terminals?

Sorry to keep asking questions, I can't remember what you're using for a spindle, is it a soft-start router? I believe some soft start routers don't like to be switched remotely. That's why I suggest trying another load.

I can't find a manual online for the relay board so I'm not sure what the terminals look like, from the photo they look simple single pole contacts without much chance for mis-wiring. On double pole relays or contactors it's sometimes unclear which terminals to use.

Make sure to verify that you have 12V on the J22 terminals for each relay. It's possible that there's enough power to light the LED but not energize the relay. Again that seems like a long shot.

Wish I could be of more help. I hear Campbell has great support so you should have this worked out soon. I'm curious to hear what the problem was

Using a volt meter, the COM is 125VAC, the NC is 125VAC and NO is 0VAC
After toggling the port, NC is 0VAC and NO is still 0VAC

All my tests say the board is defective, now I just need to convince the seller!

I know I can remove the small 12A solid state relay board and use four industrial grade 5VDC relays to do the same task, but the layout in the big drawer was customized for the small relay board. Four big relays will be difficult to add as everything would need to be re-wired! A task I'm not looking forward to!

Widgit

Ok, I have removed the relay board from my machine, and examined it closely.
It appears to have single pole, single throw relays soldered on it, as there is no connection to the N/O terminal to the relay itself!
This is very misleading, because the board is silk screened with NO COM NC, along with three terminals for each relay!
So there is nothing wrong with my wiring, or my software! It is your produce which is the problem!
I will use your relay board because I do not want to re-design my entire wiring harness!
It would be wise for you to indicate that the board is a SPST relay only!
Thanks for selling such an aggravating product!
Sincerely,

Eric A. Arnold
WidgitMaster, Inc.

Eric,

Here are a few alternatives however they will not wire up exactly the same.

One of them will only switch A.C.

http://tinyurl.com/5ez8wd

http://tinyurl.com/6fcb4a

http://tinyurl.com/584o3e

Jeff...

That's amazing. And no manual on the web site!

So are you going to use the NC connection and invert the logic? Seems less than ideal to have the router control fail closed.

Once I figured out that I could not use the standard N/O circuit on the relay, I simply connected my wires to the N/C terminal and reversed the Active High to Active Low state of pin one! This removed the power to the coil, and made it N/O !

Now I'm not an electrician, and find all this stuff very difficult! But when a product is not properly identified, it really threw me for a loop! Man I hate that :mad:

The only good news is that I went shopping for SATA cables, and found a pair with spring steel snaps on them, and they lock into the hard drives really tight! The other end is still a little loose, as it did not have snaps.

So today I solved two BIG problems on my machine, but I'll bet all the neighbors heard me yelling at my machine for hours! :eek: I'm glad that's over!

Widgit

What's even more amazing is that the BOB manual states the N/O contact is connected to the screw terminal??? Just look at my post above from the manual.

yes.... i heard ya yelling ,and im in tenn. :) just glad to hear some things are coming together for ya...

Eric,


Hope all your devices are ganged to one primary switch otherwise when the power to the BOB is off the spindle will still be running.

Jeff...

Eric,


Hope all your devices are ganged to one primary switch otherwise when the power to the BOB is off the spindle will still be running.

Jeff...

Yes they are Jeff, when I hit the E-Stop or turn the Main power switch everything stops! See, I get some things rite!

Widgit

While running an exercise g-code to move the machine around its extremes, I noticed a tick sound on all axis at random points. Now I have used shielded cable throughout my machine build, except for the 12" leads coming out of the motors! All shielding is grounded on one end, right next to the Gecko's!

Is there a wire braid type material which I can slide over the wires so that I can heat shrink over it? This way, I can extend the shielding from the motor's socket up to the motor's casing.

Other than this noise, the system is behaving nicely!

Widgit

Well, depending on the size of the wire you want to sheath ... you can get some RG5 or RG6 coax, strip the outer plastic and use that braid.

Jay

Eric,

You can use several products available from this company

http://www.delikon.com/

or you can find some surplus Aeroquip product.

Jeff...

An cheap alternative would be the flexible stainless service hoses for a sink or lavatory.

http://www.plumbingstore.com/flexes.html

They sell them very cheap at home depot.

Jeff...

I have a feeling it might not be electrical interference, but I could be wrong. I have 5' stepper wires with no shielding and have not had any electrical interference issues. Are you sure it's not a loose connection somewhere? What does the ticking sound like? Do the steppers skip steps? Maybe your computer has a case of the hiccups and sending out funny pulses...

I have the same feeling as skmetal... you're not likely to be getting interference INTO the stepper wires. The only thing shielding will do is reduce the noise radiating FROM the stepper wiring. I run un-shielded wiring on all my steppers. Though the neighbors might not appreciate the strange buzzing in their AM radio, I've never had any problems from it.
You might want to check your computer setup - there may be some low-level utility running in the background that's interrupting the pulse stream. Laptops are notorious for this, but desktops are not immune. The Mach manual has some discussion about it.
Jim

OK, so how do I test for such interference from the PC?
I'm not an ET, and have not a clue!
Widgit

Eric,

In the Mach3 directory there is a file called Drivertest.

Run the Drivertest and look for a abnormality that has the same timing frequency as the clicking noise.

I would also suggest temporarily unloading the UPS software to see if that could be the culprit.

Jeff...

So far I have not had the time to play with the new V-Router, but I did have a friend write up a nice g-code program that will mill out the 4 pockets in the 3x3x3 Turner's cubes!

Most of my time is in the shop making Mini-Router parts!
Almost done!

Widgit!

Do not use SATA in your router's computer!

So far this choice has to be the biggest mistake I've made so far!
Every time I open the electronics drawer, the RAID software pops up a window and says that the connection was broken, and I need to rebuild the raid! The rebuild takes 2 1/2 hours, and Mach3 can't be run during this time! The cables are really sloppy, and poorly designed! I would not be surprised if the RAID monitoring software is the cause of the ticking noise!

Now I thought the interruptions from the ViruScan updates was annoying, but this really bites! It seems like every time I try to play with my new machine, it turns into a aggravating ball of stress :mad: So my next task is to resolve or remove the SATA raid problems!

Do you think I'll ever get to use my new toy without wanting to kick the screws out of it?

Widgit

Hey Eric,

Sorry to hear about the grief you are having.

Did you happen to use Western Digital Raptor or Caviar SATA drives. If so, you might be able to use this more secure version of SATA cables;

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/wdsc50rcw.asp

I haven't used them, but found them using google.

Other than that, maybe using some sort of removable hot glue or silicon sealant on the connectors might do the trick.

Cheers,

Claudio

Widgit, I've been using SATA for quite a while in the PC's I build and have never seen a problem like the one you describe. It sure does argue that the cables are faulty and lose connection everytime they're jiggled. That sounds like a "gotta fix" to me. Hate to imagine starting a long CNC run going off for a cold one, and coming back only to find the machine stopped and wants to "Rebuild the RAID" just because vibration loosened the cables!

Not sure to tell you about fixing it other than to try to get some new cables. The computer end of this CNC business can certainly be one of the most frustrating, even if you're a computer guy like me.

Best,

BW

Do not use SATA in your router's computer!

So far this choice has to be the biggest mistake I've made so far!
Every time I open the electronics drawer, the RAID software pops up a window and says that the connection was broken, and I need to rebuild the raid! The rebuild takes 2 1/2 hours, and Mach3 can't be run during this time! The cables are really sloppy, and poorly designed! I would not be surprised if the RAID monitoring software is the cause of the ticking noise!

Now I thought the interruptions from the ViruScan updates was annoying, but this really bites! It seems like every time I try to play with my new machine, it turns into a aggravating ball of stress :mad: So my next task is to resolve or remove the SATA raid problems!

Do you think I'll ever get to use my new toy without wanting to kick the screws out of it?

Widgit

Eric,
Frankly I was a bit surprised when you decided on a RAID 1 configuration on your machine. That's something more typically seen on servers rather than workstations. In my experience the low end RAID controllers are more trouble than they're worth, they signal false failures, take forever to rebuild, and lack the features needed to make RAID work seamlessly.

I think you should stick with your SATA disks but break the mirror and walk away from using RAID 1. The truth is that too much complexity just gets in the way here. People like the idea of RAID but forget that disk redundancy is only one part of a backup strategy. If you aren't rotating your backups off site and doing periodic test restores then RAID isn't a magic bullet.

For most people backing up their work files to a thumb drive or external USB drive can be a better solution since it encourages offsite storage and doesn't put too much reliance on the RAID safety net. In my personal opinion, rather than using RAID your backup needs would be better served with a simple script that does a nightly backup from the boot disk to the second disk. Make sure the backup includes the registry and system files and that you always have a current boot image. You should also walk through a complete restore process at least once to be confident you can do it when and if things go wrong. Ideally, copies of all this should be periodically rotated to another location.

Even if you don't do all of this 100% correctly with two drives you'll at least be able to switch drives and boot to an older version of your machine's setup so you can get back to work.

Gordon

I agree with Gordon, there is no need for a backup when using a computer to control a CNC Machine. It would be more important on a workstation where you would design stuff to cut on the cnc and moreover I am surprised that SATA cables are a problem for you.

never came across problems with sata anytime since I have started installing in the various computers I assemble.

I agree with sentiments expressed by the last few posts. There is no reason at all to be running a raid array. You do not need the redundancy that raid offers and with what you are doing it is obviously causing more problems than its worth. While its really cool when your computer has it that you do work on for the backup and speed benefits, mach never places any strain on hardware resources of a new computer, and the strain it does place on the computer is typically with the RAM or Processor. Also, a dab of superglue does wonders, and most new SATA hard drives utilize the new version of SATA cables, and have a small clip system to hold them in place.

I agree with all!
The use of RAID in this machine is overkill, but I wanted to build a strong, safe, and reliable machine! The PC connected within the router will have a full install of CAD/CAM and Mach3, so the RAID sounded like a good idea!

For now, I have ordered an IDE hard drive, so the SATA & RAID will be eliminated. The SATA drives will end up in a desktop PC in my home, but not in this machine! Now I do not know when I'll find the time to do a complete reinstall of the OS, as I have been getting numerous emails and letters requesting Mini, Midi, & Wide-Routers! So most of my time is in the shop making precision parts!

Fortunately, a friend has offered to rewrite my web site, and setup a store with a shopping cart! This will make things a little easier, and eliminate all the eBay fees!

Widgit

You might want to give SATA another chance but you're right to ditch the RAID.

I had a home machine using IDE RAID that was my home media server. While testing it I was bringing it up and down repeatedly. It often wouldn't start right up because of RAID errors -- After 10 minutes of heavy disk activity it would finally boot.

I got sick of that and switched one of the IDE drives from the RAID controller to the IDE controller and never went back to booting from the RAID. I did eventually recreate the RAID as a second (non-booting) disk volume. Ultimately I thought it more important to use a USB external drive for weekly backups.

Remember RAID won't help you when you delete a file.

I've been supporting RAID since the 1980s, I hate to say it but I miss the old days. There's so much low-end RAID stuff out there now that it's hard to tell the bad from the awful.

I have been getting numerous emails and letters requesting Mini, Midi, & Wide-Routers! So most of my time is in the shop making precision parts!


Have you ever considered branching out? Maybe into precision belt drive or driven nut systems for use on larger routers?

Have you ever considered branching out? Maybe into precision belt drive or driven nut systems for use on larger routers?

My shop is too small, I have no room to assemble big machines! That's why I made this one in my living room!

Widgit

My shop is too small, I have no room to assemble big machines! That's why I made this one in my living room!

Widgit

I was only thinking of the sub assemblies, not entire machines. You could design and build quality components to be added to other's machines. I'll PM you some clarification.

I would recommend before using any hard-drive that you run SpinRite (http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm) on it. You may also want to check out his other tools, which, unlike SpinRite, are completely free.

If you want a reliable computer, you should generally stay away from cheap RAID devices. A better idea in this case would be a good Network Attached Storage (NAS) device, that you use for backups, assuming you can get a network set up. Since you are using the same case for your computer and drivers, you may want to add something for an RF shield, to protect the computer from having strange, and hard to figure out problems.

Dont worry about rf shielding. Your computer will not, I repeat not, have issues because of that. I have run both my mills and the computer that runs em in one case and it has never been anything but dead reliable except for an optical limit setup that was very, very, finicky no matter what. Don't place the hard drive or ram on top of the mills power supply of course.

And yes, checking a disk to make sure it works properly is a great idea and there are a few free utilities available. Check Download.com for some. Or if you aren't cheap(ie. not me), the Spinrite program is darn good.

There is a big difference between you not noticing any problems, and others not having any problems. You may actually be having problems, and never ever notice them because of backup, or reliability enhancing designs of computer electronics. If you took, for example, a ten year old computer, and put inside a case with a cheap driver, you WILL have problems. Then again newer computers have built in shielding to help prevent such occurrences from happening. If you have ever compared an older IDE cable and a UDMA IDE cable, you will notice that the former has only 40 wires, while the latter has 80 wires. That is because they added more ground wires to prevent cross-talk between the wires, that is they shielded the cable from the interference that it itself causes. Which is why SATA cables have shielding, because they are designed to work at higher frequencies, which has an exponential effect on its ability to be affected by interference. You should also note that the reason that Ethernet cables have pairs of wires inside of the cable, is so that if one wire of the pair gets a signal induced on it, that the other wire will be more likely to have the same signal induced on it as well, effectively canceling out the induced signal.

I wonder if you have tried to design an antenna, because at higher frequencies, the length required to get a good Standing Wave Ratio (SWR), goes down. So basically at the frequencies that are involved inside of most newer computers, the length of a near-perfect antenna is only about one inch (2.5 cm) or so. Which is why when designing the circuits on a motherboard, the designers have to be careful to keep the lengths of the traces, at a different length than the near-perfect antennae lengths ( quarter-wave, half wave, three quarter wave, full wave, etc), because otherwise it will easily emit a signal, that will bounce around inside of the case, only to picked up by the very wire which produced the signal to begin with, only at a later time. Which by the time the signal returns, the signal path might not be doing anything.

Now take all of this information, and refer to what I wrote earlier. Which was that it was a good idea to protect against RF interference, not necessarily a requirement. Which can be as simple as adding a signal capacitor to the wires that go out to the stepper, or servo motors. Better drivers, probably already have a signal capacitor built into them. Which will cause the other wires to have an inverse signal applied to them, effectively canceling out the original signal (mostly).

The reason you may not have any problems is because the frequencies of stepper motors, are more than likely going to be inside of the audible range, while the signals inside of a computer are more likely going to be outside of the audible range. BUT the size of the box could be at a multiple of a frequency, causing a harmonic frequency to develop, which would cause a frequency inside of the case, that may not have otherwise existed.

So like I said it is a good idea to protect against RF interference. What I guess I should have also said, it might not be necessary, depending on the circumstances.

Sorry about the rant, but I really hate people who have knowledge, in one area, only to presume that they are absolutely knowledgeable about everything that could possibly involve their knowledge :argue:. I don't presume to know everything about what I have written, which is why I have used a lot of weasel words. Plus I want to help people avoid possible pitfalls that they may otherwise encounter.

You are correct b2, absolutely correct. And being an engineer and a born tinkerer, I have a full working understanding of electrical interference and how "things" work. So don't insult unnecessarily. I do agree with you and statements you made, however rather than add stuff just to be sure, my feeling is get it working, and if there are problems, handle them then. Dont keep making this more complex and more time consuming since Erik has already spent a great deal of time working on this project. The general consensus with those of us who have used this same design is that with a modern computer and the robust drivers (ie geckos) that are used, there is very very little chance of interference.

Also, very good rant. I love rants where I learn something I didnt know before. Those are the good rants and you should never be ashamed of them.

This is all very interesting, as I do not know everything about electronics! I have built one other complete CNC machine, and learned from that experience how non shielded cables can drive you nuts! Especially when I could hear people talking and music coming from the steppers :eek:

Also, after smoking four Gecko G201's, I realized it would be beneficial to spend a few dollars more to get the stronger, safer G202's! This machine has more electronics and mixed circuits & voltages than the previous one, and I have read many posts which stressed the importance of keeping 115VAC & 67VDC lines away from the Step & Direction cables.

So when I built this machine, I made sure I applied every trick I have learned on the Zone to shield the components! Including the limit switch cables!

Now Jeff has suggested I unload some of the unnecessary software running in XP, and I have noticed an improvement! I have also found that within the McAfee Security control panel there is a thing called "Lock Down", which is a serious firewall! When activated, nothing can access the computer from either the Internet or my home network! This has also helped, as XP is constantly looking for and finding upgrades online and such!



Now I have encountered a new problem!

Previously I had installed a 12VDC relay which is activated by power from the PC's power supply, this turns on the big cooling fans for when just the PC is running. The problem is that the ATX power button will not latch the power supply to start up when the relay is connected! If I disconnect the relay, the PC start button works fine! Now I suspect there is a heavy resistance from the relay's coil, and I have a silly idea that a Diode in the line would fix it? Is this correct?

Mr. Widgit

Do you really need a firewall? If you're on a home network, your router should act as a firewall. Then you don't need all that extra bloatware installed on your comp. And TURN OFF THAT WINDOWS AUTO UPDATES CRAP!!!! you don't need it after you install all those updates when you first install windows. And windows firewall.... grrrrr.

The best thing to do is remove ALL unnecessary windows components (add/remove programs), a stripped down version of windows. And don't install any unnecessary programs; CAD/CAM, Mach3, and FireFox for browsing CNCZONE (when the machine is NOT running), and that's it.

What kind of fans do you have in your case? are they 12vdc fans? or 110vac? I guess it would be kind of obvious to connect 12vdc fans to the pc power supply, so I will assume they are 110vdc. Are you sure you have the coil terminals going to the psu? If the psu is shorted, the psu won't turn on. If not, then get some 12vdc fans to just connect to the psu...

widgetmaster,

This may not be your problem, but if the relay you installed has a diode connected across the relay coil terminals, it has to have the + and - dc leads connected to the terminals properly or the diode will conduct all the time and will put a heavy current load on the psu since it effectively shorts out the relay coil. The diode should normally be reverse biased (non-conducting) so that it acts to suppress the reverse voltage spike when the relay is opened and the coil's magnetic field collapses.

CarveOne

First off I would like to apologize to pzzamakr1980, I originally thought he was was a computer nerd who only had some knowledge about RF interference. I probably wouldn't have posted anything, except it almost sounded like he was insisting there wasn't any possible way for there to be interference. What I now understand to be the case is he was talking about Widget's router specifically, being unlikely to have any problems. I actually agree that Widget will probably not have any problems. I think that using shielded wires for the limit switches is a little overkill. If they were optical, or magnetic switches I might have done something to shield them, especially being so close to the motor wires/windings.

For causing me to write my post I would, sincerely like to thank him :wave:. I am trying to overcome Social Anxiety Disorder, and would otherwise not have posted anything of the sort. I am actually completely self taught in the fields of computer programming, electronics, metal working, and to a lesser extent woodworking. Which pretty much means I know I don't know everything about those things.


Oh and for further knowledge my name is Brad, b2gills refers to two things.
One is in high school I was sometimes referred to as bgills, the other being that I have the same initials as my mom (BAG #2).

The main reason I chose b2gills is because, everywhere I try to setup an account b2gills seems to be unused, while bgills is occasionally used.

Ok Widgit, I think what the problem actually is that the relay doesn't have enough resistance. I would try to figure out what is the largest resistor you can put in series with the relay, that would still allow it to work. The reason you would want to use a diode is so you don't have a power spike after you kill the power to the relay. The diode will cause the power surge to be looped back into the relay, safely discharging the magnetic field. I would probably both have a resistor, and a diode.

You can go here (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/e-inductkick-block.html) to see what that would look like, and how it would work. The relay would be the the second device from the top.

I have heard about the product 98lite that would allow you to remove everything possible from WIN98. Well I went looking for it to see if they had an XP version, and as it turns out yes they do. Check it out at litepc.com (http://www.litepc.com/).

b2gills,

You are correct in thinking that the relay coil doesn't have enough resistance. I was going to mention that possibility next. Very low coil resistance may cause too much current draw from the psu 12v output. Most PC psu's I have had only supply around 1/2 ampere or so as I recall. The 12v output from the psu may be going into current limiting trying to supply the relay coil surge current.

CarveOne

Wow man, just wow! This machine you've built is... breathtaking, amazing, unbelievable, etc.!

Eric,
Hope you're high and dry and avoided the flood! It truly would be a state of emergency if your shop had been soaked by this storm. Hope you and all around you stayed safe and dry.

Gordon

Thanks Guy's!
I had posted some pics of the flooding on a different thread, here is the link:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63176

It's time for a moment of truth! So far I have over 100 hours of motion time on this new machine, and have not made anything on it! All the time has been spent tweaking and adjusting everything, along with running a lengthy g-code to move everything to there extremes! Here is the final word of truth!

The V-groove gearing are not strong enough for this machine! The lower X-Axis slide rollers have bent over .090", putting the entire machine out of tram! The upper section is so heavy, that the force on the little roller's spindles is too great!

My solution is to remove the lower V-Groove track & rollers, and replace them with Linear Glide Blocks. This will Cost around $500 in materials, and require the modification of several parts. Currently my shop time is dedicated to making Mini, Midi, & Wide-Routers, so after I sell a few I'll begin the retrofit of the lower slide mechanism. I can only hope the resulting misalignment has not severely damaged the X-Axis ball nut, as it is the only thing keeping the whole top section from falling off!

Widgit

do you mean the bolts holding the v-groove bearings have bent? can you just use some of those bolts with a shoulder on them (shoulder bolts) if the bolts are not holding up the weight maybe a simple fix is hardened bolts?

i like the idea of v-groove bearings for a linear way, i was really hoping this would work out for ya...as i was thinking about making a simular machine. the bearing them selves are rated for much more weight arent they, especially with using several on each side?

what is the estimated weight of your xyz axis' ? (every thing that moves is on the x axis ,including your y axis and z axis ,plus all the connectors and spindle when installed)

hope ya get it running soon :)

Hi ACE!
Actually, the bearing spindles are SS, and are riveted to the bearings. This gives them a very low profile! Now if I were to make them from steel, it may give me a temporary fix, but the other problem is that in order to adjust the little cams, the entire machine must be dismantled as there is now way to get a skinny wrench in there! I have tried several ideas in CAD, and none of them are as strong as the linear slide blocks. They only need access for a grease fitting!

So far my funds for all these projects have gone very low because of this big machine, so it will be a while before I can afford to buy the expensive rails to fix it! As for the total weight, I have not had time to dismantle the machine and weigh all the component! The V-Groove bearings are nice, and are easy to design around, but not for a machine with massive aluminum or steel components!

Currently I'm working every day just to build 14 Mini-Routers and 5 Wide-Routers. Their sales will enable me to pay for the big V-Router, and eventually the upgrade for the x-axis slides.

Widgit

Just wanted to post a note to let everyone know that I have not given up! Actually, I placed a bid on four dual truck rails on eBay

Wish me luck!

Widgit

Hello Widgit,
Glad to hear you're still at it. Sounds like the big router turned into a real challenge!
I've been meaning to ask, while you're doing the new batch of little ones, is there a chance you might end up with an extra one of those new, taller z-axis assemblies? I was thinking about upgrading my Midi.
Cheers!
Jim McMillan

is there a chance you might end up with an extra one of those new, taller z-axis assemblies? I was thinking about upgrading my Midi.
Cheers!
Jim McMillan


Good Timing Jim!
I will starting on them in a week or two!

- - - - - - -


Now for the good news, I have won the eBay auction! :)
I now have four THK HSR20ASS C1 linear rails with dual trucks! I figured an extra pair would be nice to have if the Y-Axis decides to go sloppy on me! Each rail set cost as much as one new truck from MSC, so I guess I got a good deal!

No I have to wait for them to be delivered, before I start any redesigning! From the size of the new rail assemblies, it looks like I will be replacing the front & rear plates to raise the whole unit up an inch.

Widgit

That's great Eric.
Please put me down for one. My Midi is a bare metal one, so there's no need for anodizing on it.
Thanks!
Jim

OK, so far I have the four new THK linear rails in house. After taking some measurements, I have spent a few hours in CAD trying to find the best way to apply them! The results are promising, and it looks like there will be a slight loss of X-Axis travel. (Around 1.65") In order to make them work, I have to modify the X-Axis slide block by cutting the hook off each end. This is no great loss, as it is filled with holes from the previous design. But the material must be replaced by a large block of aluminum on each end. These blocks will be connected to the THK trucks, as well as the 3/4" thick side plates. Then I will need a complete redesign of the "L" shaped feet, which will now have a track milled the full length for the THK linear rail to nest in. Both the front & rear plates attached to the T-Slot plate will need to be remade, as none of the existing holes will line up with the new parts.

Total material cost for this upgrade:

2pc MIC-6. Front & Rear Plates, 24 1/4 x 3 3/8 x 1/2 = $30.00 each.
2pc 6061, X-Axis Slide Blocks, 6 x 5 x 3 = $37.25 each.
2pc 6061, Outer Base Plates, 24 x 6 x 1 1/4 = 61.11 each.
4pc THK Rails w/Dual Trucks = $545.00
Total: $799.72 plus shipping

Now, that's a expensive upgrade!

I will post some pics of the new CAD design when finished, and start on making the new parts.

Widgit

Here are a few CAD images with the modifications I have chosen:

So far I have ordered and received the THK linear rails for all three axis of this large router, along with all the 6061 bar stock to make the replacement parts. The progress has been slow due to many factors, such as tropical storms, death in the family, financial issues etc.

As soon as I get all the Mini & Wide-Routers finished, I will start on the modifications of the big router. I have had some time to update my CAD files, so all the problems should be resolved! After I remove all the V-Groove rails & bearings from this machine and replace them with THK linear slides, this machine will be incredibly strong and solid! But it will not be a V-Router any more! Anyone have a suggestion for a new name?

Widgit

Hi Eric,
I have been following the build of this machine from the start and really felt your dissapointment when you had all the computer problems and now this!!
When you fit the new rails it will be an awsome machine!
How about calling it Widgitmonster?

Best wishes
John O R

widgitmaster...

one sure fire way to get a new name for the new router is like gecko drive did for the new g250/g251 drives....give stuff away!! maybe a mini router to the winner? :) (jest jokin)


you mention that you may need the 2nd set of rails for the "Y" axis so you must be gonna still use the v-groove rollers for the y axis for now...so till you change them out you could call it the "hybrid" .

good luck with the rework! it should be more solid :) always a good thing.

Finally, all my projects are done, and the shop is nice and clean!
Now it's time to repair this Big-Router!

So far I have the aluminum stock, three sets of THK linear rails with dual trucks, two boxes of SS metric cap screws, and all the CAD drawings!
My first task is to make the two long side plates which will have the rails fastened to them. The stock is 23" x 6" x 1 1/4" , the 1st thing I'll do is fly-cut the bottom's nice and flat. So here we go!

Widgit,

It's great to see that you are getting back to your own project again. I can't wait to see this thing run.

Also are you going to to the full play by play construction process. I think everyone here really enjoys reading how you build this stuff, and likes to see all of your tips and tricks!

-C

Off to a good start!
Today I setup the mill with two vises, so that I can hold the long parts. But first I needed to stone the table and the bottom of the vises to make sure they sit flat on the table! Now with my long soft jaws, I can fly-cut one side of both parts nice and flat!

Then I removed the soft jaws and installed my tall jaws. This way I can put that newly machined surface against the tall jaw, and machine the edges parallel. The part was sitting on two 123 blocks, to raise it off the floor of the vises as they are not equal.

Now that I have three machined surfaces on each part, I put back the long soft jaws and machined them true so the part would nest nicely.

Now that the part is sitting in the soft jaws, it's time to mill the track for the linear rail to nest into. Because its important to control the depth of the slot, I have chosen to use one of my little quill spacers. This way I can tighten the quill's stop nut up against one of the spacers, and lock the quill clamp to ensure there is no movement at the cutter. This is one of my methods to keep parts precision, as the knee on a mill has so much weight on it that it's more accurate than the quill!

So for starters, I have scribed some layout lines on the parts with my height gage, and set the spindle to zero on the back edge of the part. Then I moved to the center of the slot and set zero. now all I need to do is subtract the diameter of the end mill from the final width of the slot. Divide the difference by 2, and that is my offset!

With the slots finished, I proceeded to mill off the rest of the top surfaces, leaving .005 on the floor of the wide step. As the floor will be machined in a different setup.

VIDEO (http://widgitmaster.com/video/100_3728.MOV) (8.28 MB)

No I have to mill the floor of the wide step, to do this I will use a long end mill, and hold the part on it's edge. This surface does not require any precision, but it will be visible after the machine is assembled. So using the side of a long end mill will remove the circular swirls left by the end mill, and leave a uniform flat surface!

Next I setup a stop on the vise, so that I could mill the parts to length. With all the milling finished, I decided to setup the grinder with an abrasive cut off wheel, so that I can cut the rails to fit! This will be done tomorrow, as I've done enough for one day!

Widgit

This morning I drilled & tapped the plates for M5x.8, then I cut the rails on the grinder with the abrasive cut-off wheel!

As you can see from the movie, the guard was open to allow access for the camera, but that meant I get blasted with hot sparks! This was complicated even more, as I tried to feed the rail into the cut-off wheel with my left hand while holding the camera in the other :eek:

Now the rails are securely mounted in the base plates, all that's left is to drill, tap, and ream the holes in the ends of the base plates! I'll do that after the next two parts are finished!

VIDEO (http://widgitmaster.com/video/100_3737.MOV) (8.4 MB)

As you can see from the movie, the guard was open to allow access for the camera, but that meant I get blasted with hot sparks! This was complicated even more, as I tried to feed the rail into the cut-off wheel with my left hand while holding the camera in the other :eek:


Widgit,

First, you need to get a tripod or some type of camera mount! I think the screw on a tripod is just a 1/4-20, so maybe you could make something. If you only knew someone that was handy in a machine shop, I'm sure they could make some type of magnetic mount for you. :)

Maybe I missed the description, but why did you cut the rail with the abrasive disc, as opposed to any other tool in your shop. I figured that rough cut end would just drive you crazy! I'm expecting to see the rail in the mill any minute now.

-C

Widgit,

First, you need to get a tripod or some type of camera mount!
Maybe I missed the description, but why did you cut the rail with the abrasive disc, as opposed to any other tool in your shop.
-C


No time to fuss with cameras & tripods :)
As for cutting the rail, it is not visible when assembled, and it was hardened steel!

This afternoon I made the front & rear plates. First I milled the edges to size, then the length. Next I drilled, tapped & reamed the holes on the top edge, where the T-Slot plate will be attached.

Next I drilled, reamed, and c-bored the holes in the face of the plates. These holes will match up with the two base plates I made yesterday!

This morning I finished up the rear plate, drilled & countersunk the big holes in the base plates, and cleaned up the chips!

Now I have to rotate the mill's turret 35°, and extend the ram. This way I can use the big angle plate with my new side plate, to drill, ream & tap the end holes on the two base plates.

Next I'll make the two blocks which attach to the linear trucks and the big gantry side plates!

Tonight I'll order a new ball screw & nut, along with two bearings to support the ends.

Widgit

lookin good widgitmaster ,looks like your back on "track" now,and "roller -ing" right along :)

This morning I squared up the blocks using my big fly-cutter and a shell mill, then I changed the blade in my band saw to an 8 TPI raker! This allowed me to cut clear through the 6" thick block of aluminum (with a little noise and a wax-stick) :)

Then I finished milling out the inside steps, so the blocks would sit nicely on top of the linear trucks! Now I can't fully calculate where this block will sit on the two trucks, as I have to remove the 45° grease fittings and replace them with straight ones! The more decrease the width of these blocks, the more I increase the actual travel in this axis!

I'm surprised no one has asked me why I'm re-making the entire base assembly, as opposed to just the base plates and slide block! Actually, the only thing wrong with the initial design is the 24" height of the gantry and all its weight! So by remaking a lower and lighter gantry assembly, the old v-groove base will still function!! It's also better than having a lot of precision machined parts in my scrap barrel!

So when this Big-Router is finished, I will make a new upper section and sell it to recover the cost of this upgrade! Any one interested in a machine with 19"x19" travel?

Widgit

This afternoon I finished milling the steps on the two blocks, to do this I needed to rotate the vise again!

That's enough for one day!

Tomorrow afternoon I'll drill & tap some holes, and switch over the grease fittings!

Widgit

When I removed the grease fittings from the trucks, I found out THK used a non standard fitting! (:

The threads are M6x1.75, and the standard is M6x1!

Does anyone know where I can get some M6x1.75 straight grease fittings?

Widgit

My fairly extensive web searching only found M6 x 1.0 fittings. M6 x 0.75 is the fine thread standard. Was M6x1.75 a typo?

http://www.thefastenerconnection.com/Products/GreaseFittings7.html

CarveOne

Was M6x1.75 a typo?
CarveOne

Oops!
Yes, it's M6x.75

Hi Eric,

You might try your local bearing supplier - I ordered some straight M6 x 0.75 grease fittings for some THK bearing blocks recently. My guy had to order them in, but he seemed able to get them quite readily, they didn't cost much at all.

Best regards,

Jason

Good news!
I found the grease fittings in an auto parts store!
So I spent the remainder of the day drilling, tapping, reaming, & c-boring all the mounting holes in the slide blocks!

After a quick assembly, I must say this is the most solid slide mechanism I've made so far (and the most expensive) :)

Widgit

Good to hear it! I looked on AutoZone's site but didn't see any that small. Fastenal has some also but they were from M10 to M18. I figured that you didn't want a kit of assorted metric fittings.

Nice looking machine design work you have going on.

CarveOne

More progress today!
The last few days I have only had a couple of hours to work in the shop, so I made all the parts in the new X-Axis slide block! Then I noticed the ball screw was slightly bent, so I placed it in the lathe between centers and checked it with an indicator. With a little pressure on the high side, I was able to remove the .005" error!

One of the ball screw ends will need to be modified, as I have decided to place the thrust bearing block inside the machine, under the T-Slot plate!

THe material has arrived for the upper Y-Axis slide assembly, and all the details have been worked out in CAD! This will upgrade the X&Y Axis to THK linear slides. So far I have been unable to locate the slides for the Z-Axis, but I will find them!

Widgit

That last picture ... that's one chunky piece of metal ... wow!

That last picture ... that's one chunky piece of metal ... wow!


LOL!
The new base now weighs 52.5 LBs (23.8 Kg) without the ball screw!
The wood top measures 24"x36", just to give you a little proportion!

While I'm using the scale, I weighed the upper section of this router! All the parts in the Y&Z Axis weigh 55 LBs, not including the spindle motor! Thats why the lower bearings burned up so fast! All that weight 24" above the bearings was too much leverage on the little bearing shafts, thats why they're bent!

Widgit

This project has slowed down, but it is NOT finished!
For the last few days I've milled the upper rail supports nice and square, then to length. Next I milled the slot where the Linear Rail will be nested. To get the slot width just right, I use an adjustable parallel expanded in the slot! This way I could measure it with a micrometer!

After the slots were finished, I drilled and tapped the twenty mounting holes for M5x.8 Next I setup the mill to drill & tap the end holes and ream the two holes for dowel pins!

THe goal is to make all the pieces fit most of the existing holes in the side plates; unfortunately, several holes will need to be plugged to make the unit look good!

I have ordered a block of aluminum that's 6x6x16" for the upper slide block, most of the CAD work has been done, pending the Z-Axis THK linear rails I'm bidding on. The final CAD design will be made to fit the rails & trucks I end up with!

Widgit

so this isnt going to be a v-groove router at all then is it..lol :) those rails are about as strong as you can get i suppose, so everything should be golden . ever come up with a new name for it?

Super x 24 ?
WMX 24 ? (W)idgit (M)aster (X) 24
Super 24 ?
Big 24 ?
2X2 ?

some suggestions :) happy building :)

so this isn't going to be a v-groove router at all then is it..lol :) those rails are about as strong as you can get i suppose, so everything should be golden . ever come up with a new name for it?

Super x 24 ?
WMX 24 ? (W)idgit (M)aster (X) 24
Super 24 ?
Big 24 ?
2X2 ?

some suggestions :) happy building :)


Hey ACE!
I was so impressed with the rigidity and smoothness of the THK slides, that I figured they need to go on all three axis! If the V-Grove bearing system failed on one axis, it was doomed to fail on the others too! The new bottom slide section is so tight, yet it slides freely with the force from one little finger!

As for a new name, well Big-Router is the choice! Only thing is I have no way of renaming this thread! So chaos rules :)

This Big money pit router has consumed my every resource, so when it is finished and fully functional, I will most likely sell it with or without the base and electronics!

I have plans to make another monster machine, but this time out of hot-rolled steel plates all welded into sub-sections. But this too will be costly!

Widgit

hmmm ......sell your router? after all this work? i was thinking this one would be your workhorse for shop use ,but i guess your wanting the steel router to be the shop workhorse for use in the shop .if your selling it, someone will get a top notch router!!

as for building a new router, is this a while away (like a year) ? im already looking foward to the new build log :) lol eager to see the new design also.

but for now good going on this current build! cant get the buggy before the horse huh?

that movie with tom hanks was a funny movie (money pit) i think that was the name of it anyway. if you have saw it,have you felt like tom did while sinking thru the floor into the cealing of the room below ? :) :)

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm much better at building Prototypes than running a production CNC machine! My plans were to keep this monster for myself, but I had to mortgage my house to get it finished! So it will be up for grabs in the near future! I would like to keep the table with the electronics, as that is too much of a pain to do again! Besides, I'll need it for the steel machine!

Here is a preview of the next build:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66441

Widgit

Today I made sure all the holes in the wiring harness aligned with the new parts! Then I squared up the new top plate to exactly 24x24, the holes and t-slots will get done this weekend if all goes well!

The material for the new slide blocks is on order, and the CAD work is ready! One thing I have noticed that's different in this upgrade, is there are now five grease fittings in the lower section! I'm thinking a sheet of aluminum .03125" thick under the whole unit might be necessary to keep the excess grease off the wood table top!

Widgit

Hey Eric,

Great work there as usual.

I noticed you have listed your rev 1 axis on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330281177347&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=014

If I wasn't already up to my eyeballs with WidgitMaster CNC stuff, I'd buy this and start a new project!

Hopefully you get as much for it as you put into it.

Cheers,

Claudio

It's been a busy weekend! So far I have finished the holes in the top plate, and milled the t-slots!

Then I started on the BIG block of aluminum which will become the upper slide block, this block is 6"x6" x15 1/8" solid 6061 aluminum! At first I thought its weight would be a problem, but it turned out to be its size! My vise is 6", and my biggest clamps are 6"! So how do I hold this monster block?

After studying the print, I decided to mill away the corners from one side, and mill a flat down the center of the one side. By bringing the width to 3", I can now hold the block upside down in the vise with my Starrett Hold-Down's to make the opposite side perfectly parallel. Then I held the wide machine surface against the vise's stationary jaw, so that I could machine the sides perpendicular.

With the corners stepped out, I can now hold the block on end with my tall angle plate, to machine it's ends perpendicular!

Now, the best part of the weekend was a two hour conversation via Yahoo Messenger with Jeff Alessi. We agreed to exchange some of my items for two more heavy duty Linear Rail & Truck assemblies! So I now have enough to finish the Z-Axis! With 25mm linear rails, this machine will be extremely strong and rigid! The 1/4" dia cutters in the Makita Die Grinder will be no problem for this machine! In fact, I will be looking for a bigger spindle assembly to complement the power of this router!

Widgit

This morning I setup the mill with my large angle plate, so that I could hold the big block on end and mill the ends square. It took me a little time to shim everything just right, but putting .0025" thick shims around the top of the angle plate it came out perfect!

Then I did a quick layout with a felt pen, to get an idea of where to drill the holes for turning the band saw blade in the corners. Now its time to wax up the old saw blade and start cutting! After a lot of noise, the blocks fell out and the job was done!

Next, I put my vise on the mill in the long position, and put the block in the vise. Again I checked everything carefully with a dial indicator, so as to make the block nice and perpendicular and true. Otherwise the Z-Axis rails and slides will always be crooked and make crappy parts!

The milling took time, as I have a limited number of long and large cutters. But everything worked out really nice, and the mounting surfaces for the upper slide blocks is done! Tomorrow I will drill & counter bore the holes for the M6 cap screws.

Widgit

Yesterday I finished drilling & counter boring the 16 holes that attach the block to the horizontal slide blocks. Then I attached the block to the router, just to see if everything aligned properly!

So far so good!
Widgit

This morning I clamped the block to the mill's table, and dialed it in so that it was nice and parallel. Then I milled the top center section to it's final dimension, and proceeded to mill the slot down the center.

In order to do this, I first milled the slot to finished width. But left .300" of material on the bottom. Then I milled a narrower slot to depth, leaving a step on both sides .250" wide. Then with a long 1/2" ball end mill. I removed the steps and blended the fillet radius in the corners.

Last operation was to mill the .250" radius .250" deep, right down the center of the slot. This will be for the Z-Axis limit switch's trip-pin.

Tomorrow I will mill some big pockets in the back of the block for the horizontal limit switch & wiring.

Widgit

Yesterday (Halloween) I setup the mill so that I could transfer the center of the existing bearing in the side plate to the upper slide block. To do thisI carried the whole assembly out to the shop, placed it on parallels so the rails were hanging of the edge of the table. Then I rotated the mill's turret, and extended the ram to reach the bearing bore.

Next I removed the entire setup, placing the slide assembly on the floor, while I tightened and trammed the mill's head true to the table. This extra step was necessary to keep the alignment of the ball nut a perfect as possible, to keep the nut quiet and make it last longer!

Now I put everything back on the mill, and dialed it all in as I clamped it securely. Now with a long center drill, I put a center spot on location on the side of the big slide block.

Now I have to break it all down again, reposition the turret, and the ram. and re-tram the head! Then I clamped the big block to the table with large parallels under it. After dialing everything in, I used the mill's DRO as a CMM to get the exact location of the center spot. The good news is that my transferred spot was within .0025" of the CAD's calculated location! But I'm glad I took the time to transfer the centerline, as that .0025" would be enough to kill the ball nut!

Widgit

So far I have milled out the big pocket in the back of the slide block, this pocket will have a 1/8" thick aluminum plate covering the horizontal limit switch assembly and wiring.

Then I setup the large angle plate on my mill, so that I could hold the big block on end. This was a fun setup, as I had to use straps to clamp the block to the angle plate. None of my other clamps were big enough!

After the deep pocket was milled on the end of the block, I drilled and tapped all the hold which will mount the top z-axis bearing plate. This plate will also cover the z-axis limit switch assembly and wiring.

Tomorrow I will drill & tap the mounting holes on the other end, which will be used to fasten the bottom z-axis thrust bearing. This will not take long, so I plan on milling the top & bottom plates square & parallel.

Widgit

widgitmaster,

That is a really nice piece of workmanship. You surely won't see any twisting due to router torque with this assembly. One piece of aluminum, wow.

CarveOne

Thanks CarveOne :)

hey widgitmaster ,this may be a lil' off topic but,i was just wondering if you are going to use this machine in your shop , (for engraving?? ) i was wondering why you didnt just buy a desktop type cast iron machine and fit it with the electronics ,

im guessing one reason is it gives ya another excuse to build another machine ,(that prolly dont take much to convince ya to build another great widgitmaster machine :) )

another reason is maybe speed would be faster on a router VS. a mill?

had you looked at the cost of the build versus buying one to convert?

build is looking better all the time,this will be a great machine when its done,very strong looking,and with those rails will probably be very tight (not loose) i havent really messed with those rails much before...the shop i work at we built a cnc lathe (about two years ago) that had those ball bearing rails on it ,altho expensive for a home built machine ,they were very smooth rolling :)

Widgetmaster,

Your project is very impressive, both on the fabrication and the documentation side. I find it incredibly fascinating and educational. My hat off to you, sir.

As I am new to this CNC router business, I have nothing to offer but a suggestion for a name. It started out as a Super-V router, but I'm dubbing it the "SuperSlide" from now on. (Although you may want to reserve that name for your next project :))

Keep it up!

Ed.

So far I have been unable to locate the two linear rails needed for the Z-axis on this SuperSlide router. The X & Y axis use the standard THK HSR25 rails & trucks; however, in order to keep the slide blocks compact and proportional different rails & trucks are needed! For best results, I have designed everything around the THK HSR20-R, these trucks are narrow (44mm) and will take force from all directions.

While designing the Z-axis, I was bidding on two rail sets with dual trucks. Unfortunately, I was out bid! These 20mm rails are not as common as the 25mm. so they are harder to find!

If anyone has a couple of sets equal to or greater than 15" in length, I would be willing to trade or buy them for a reasonable price! Please contact me via private message here on CNCZone.

Thanks,
Eric

A little more progress!
So far this weekend I have made the top & bottom bearing plates for the z-axis, the plates are dowel pinned and screwed together for perfect alignment of the lead screw ends.

Then I made the stainless shaft that triggers the z-axis limit switch in either top or bottom position. The shaft has 1/4" dia x 1/4" deep holes in each end for a spring, the springs will keep the shaft in the neutral position. On the top of the shaft on the inside near the slide block's top cavity, there is a .250" radius détente where the actual limit switch sits. When in the neutral position, the switch's plunger is at the bottom of the détente. When the shaft slides either up or down, the switch's plunger will ride the radius of the détente causing the normally closed circuit to open.

Next, I will make the slide pin for the other limit switch located in the rear pocket of the big block.

Widgit

Today I finished up the z-axes lead screw by turning the ends and cutting it to length. Yesterday when I made the bottom plate, I pressed one bearing flush with the screw side. Then I bored a deeper hole from the opposite side to fit another bearing. Now by making a little end cap with one screw in the center, the ball screw is clamped between two bearings! Thus eliminating any end play! The little cap has a stepped diameter equal to the inner race of the bearing, so it applies pressure to the bearing not the end of the screw!

Hi, Eric
It looks as if you have built a completely new machine, very impressive!
How many parts were salvaged from the V router?
T slot plate, side support plates?????
I'm waiting anxiously to hear its completed!!!
Best Regards
John O R

Thanks John!

The best answer to that question is "Not enough !", as I have remade 98% of the machine :eek:
With a little effort, I will turn all the older parts into another machine to be sold on eBay!

Eric

Today I milled off the excess material from the corners of the big slide block, all that is left to do is mill a channel for the 20mm rails to nest in, and drill & tap the mounting holes. Removing this material has lightened the block considerably, even though weight is no longer an issue!

As you can see from the photos of the new base slide, compared to that of the older V-Groove bearing design. The V-groove bearings would have worked perfectly had the build been lighter and smaller, but all the massive aluminum parts were just too much weight for those little bearings!

My thoughts at this time is to try a retrofit of narrow linear tracks, to make the entire router functional again.

Widgit

This morning I needed to make two little brackets to hold the limit switches for the X & Z-Axis.
The easiest way to make a one piece item is to mill up as many surfaces as you can in one setting. So I found a little block in the scrap pile, and used an end mill to carve it out. The next step is to band saw the part from the block, and finish mill the final surface.

This procedure worked perfectly for both brackets!

Widgit

It's just amazing the amount of useful mechanical objects that are hidden within a plain old block of aluminum - if you use your x-ray goggles to peer within and remove all of the excess aluminum that prevents them from escaping. You have liberated some nice parts for this build from their previous entombment. :) Thanks for the photo documentary Widget.

CarveOne

You got it Carve-O :)

This afternoon I started on the primary z-axis slide block, this design will be made in two pieces, as I could not afford a bigger chunk of aluminum!

After squaring up two sides of the block with my big fly-cutter, I placed the two machined surfaces between the vise jaws and machined the width. Then I carefully milled the other two ends to length making sure they are very square and perpendicular to the other surfaces.

Next I put the block wide side down in the vise, and set the center of the spindle zero to the center of the block. Now with a .750" 4-flute carbide end mill with .093" radius's on the flute points, and proceeded to mill two deep slots through the block.

The center of the block will get bored to accept the ball nut, and the sides will be drilled to match the holes on the linear trucks. The front of the block has a 1/2" wide x 1/8" deep key way, as this will align the secondary slide block so its perpendicular as well.

Tomorrow I'll drill & bore some holes, as I'm tired now :(

Widgit

ps: Sure wish someone would clean my shop!

Last night I worked on the slide block, to mill out a pocket for the ball nut. My 1st choice was to use the rotary table, so I placed it on 123 blocks and strapped it down on the ro-tab. This looked a little weak, so I added additional straps, but as I milled the slide block moved an put a big gouge in the part :(
So my 2nd choice was to remove the ro-tab, and dial a vise back in. With the part held securely, I milled away the damaged area, drilled the through hole, and bored the primary hole which aligns the ball nut.
Now that the nut sits .6"+ deeper that I had planned, I will need to make a filler block to bring the edge which intersects with the limit switch pin back where it belongs. A minor problem, as none of it will be visible after assembly!
Next, the six mounting holes will need to be drilled & tapped to fasten the ball nut and filler block. Some long #10-24 screws will work fine!

Widgit

This afternoon I worked on the secondary slide block. First I fly cut one side of the block flat using my big fly-cutter, then I machined the long edged with my 3" face mill. Next I placed the parallel block in the vise, and milled the ends to length.

After scribing a few lines using my surface plate and height gage, I ban sawed the excess material from two corners. Then I milled the corner dimensions to the print, using a 3/4" end mill.

Next I put the block in the vise so it was flat and parallel to the mill's table, the 1-2-3 blocks helped! The intersecting keys on this side of the block will align the primary and secondary blocks. then a few 1/4-20 SHCS will be used to fasten them together! This makes the z-axis slide block much easier to make, and less expensive than one large block!

Now with a 1/4" dia 2-flute end mill, I made both keys, and removed all the excess material between the keys! The two slide blocks fit like a glove, and the keys almost disappear when ass