well, I sold my fadal today. I have mixed feelings. It worked really well but was soooo slow. I could not see using it again after working on the vf2. Now I have room for a tl1 all I have to do is explain to the wife.

mark

Hmmm...I think I remember telling you that I was Satan. :D

Congrats on selling the Fadal.

The combo of the the VF-2 and TL-1 is hard to beat. What size lathe do you have now?

You are satan himself. You did put the bug in my ear. I have a small austrian manual lathe (emco maier) 11 inch swing 24 inches between centers. I like it but really want a cnc lathe. Are you really happy with yours greg? Do you use coolant with it? is it really messy? I dont really use my lathe that much (probably because its manual) but think once I get a cnc lathe I will use the lathe more. I tend to gear thing more towards the mill at this point.

Mark

Am I happy with the TL-1? Not entirely. I had a very nice 16x40 lathe with a gearbox. It had so much torque, I could have mounted this TL-1 in it and turned it. I didn't need that torque very often but I no longer have that option with the TL-1.

The TL-1 has very limited X travel (8"). To call it a 16" machine is stretching. I was setting up the tool post just last Friday. I carefully set the Dorian so it could potentially just make it to the edge of the envelope. When I was all done and had spent 30 minutes setting up all of the tools, I discovered that the drilling block couldn't quite make it to centerline. :mad: I had to break it all down and start over. For comparison: my old 16" machine had 21" of X travel.

Yes, I run coolant. Yes, it's a mess. The biggest loss is from coolant running down the tool block and off of the operator side of the machine. I made a stainless steel backsplash and tray to fit under the toolpost. It catches most of it and redirects it back to the center of the machine. It really needs a bead of sealant because coolant still runs under the tray and escapes. It still fixed most of the problem.

As for the rest of it, I'm not entirely happy with the flatness of the machine. It arrived with a 0.003" twist in the bed (see this thread (http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49147)). Torrance wants to come out and realign the head and tailstock to the twisted bed. I want the twist to go away. I'm stalling things and parking it on three legs hoping that the casting will go back to 'flat' and realignment won't be necessary.

I'm not optimistic that the casting is going to relax anymore and I'm not happy about tweaking the head and tailstock to match a twisted bed. That just means that it'll be straight in exactly one setup. I'm not sure what's going to happen yet. The HFO has absolutely been on top of this but it's a crappy situation and nobody wants to face the reality that replacement may be the only option (not even good for me since I have to go through the installation and setup process again).

And with all of that said, is there something else I would rather have bought? Nope. It's a very nice machine for the money. I love the control.

If I had to list what I don't like:
I wish they had an optional (and retrofit-able) planetary gearbox spindle for it. I see this as a very nice package for lots of varied work but it's weak for doing larger diameter, hard materials (threading a 10" piece of stainless for example). I haven't had a problem...yet.
Add 3-5" of additional X travel so you can actually use it without moving the tool post. 12" of travel doesn't make a 24" swing machine. It makes it a 16" machine that can use a variety of tools without moving the tool post.
I'd like to see folding handles on it. The new machines have really stubby handles but they can still whack you good if you're not watching.But these things all cost money. Haas does everything to cut costs on it and they're evident when compared to your VF-2. For example: the pendant lacks the backstop bracket that keeps the control from over-rotating. It doesn't come with a notepad holder. It doesn't come with the shelf on the bottom of the pendant.

Lots of little things like that mean that they can keep the cost down...which is the primary attraction of this machine in the first place. How's that for a summary? :D

Edit: See attached for a pic of the dribble tray I made for under the toopost.

...... How's that for a summary? :D

That is a pretty good summary.

I second your comments regarding X travel. On my TL2 a lot of travel is lost because the toolpost is to close to center.

fourperf; If you can squeeze the extra money go for the TL2. It does not have more swing than the TL1 but it does have a much larger hole through the spindle which can often be very useful.

Regarding the handles I took them off; I even took off the apron to remove the load of driving the pinion along the rack. And this allowed me to mount my coolant screen I showed in a different post.

fourperf; If you can squeeze the extra money go for the TL2.

+1 on the TL-2. I wish I could have afforded it. It's got more bed length and I think it's 50% more spindle torque.

I absolutely would have bought the TL-2 but my budget was on the ragged edge getting into the TL-1.

Greg, what is the status of the lathe now? Is it still under warranty? Are you still pushing to have it taken care of or are you just living with it at this point? I am going to try to put as many hrs on my vf2 before the warranty expires as humanly possible.

How many of you guys got the tailstock with the machine? Do you use it a lot?

how many got the auto tool changer?

Mark

Yup, it's still under warranty. Yes, it's still twisted. I'm trying to be a reasonable guy though. I'm doing all that I can to get the twist out of the bed and I'm going to be as accommodating as possible but ultimately, I want it right.

I got the tailstock. I may never use it but as Mike pointed out: you don't want a lathe without a tailstock--if just for resale value down the road.

Toolchanger: I didn't get it but it was more cost related than function. But now that I've had the machine awhile, I have no regrets. There are other threads on here discussing its value.

If you were producing, it might be valuable but this is the wrong machine for production. I made 20 little brass parts last night. I had to make little tweaks to the coolant nozzles with every tool change so automatic operation wouldn't have mattered. Even with the changer, you'd need to tweak the nozzle or simply flood so much coolant that you'd take a bath in it.

Of course: if the money were coming in, I'd let the coolant spray everywhere and wipe myself off with the cash. :D

And since I have to share this and really have nowhere else to post it:

I just tried a forming tap today (VF-2). Man, I don't know if I'll ever use another cutting tap again. It pushed an 8-32 tap, 0.7" deep into aluminum. The threads are gorgeous and because there are no chips getting caught in the hole, it could have kept threading to China. Why did I wait so long to try these things? :wee:

what is the difference? do you use the same rigid tapping cycle?

mark

And since I have to share this and really have nowhere else to post it:

I just tried a forming tap today (VF-2). Man, I don't know if I'll ever use another cutting tap again. It pushed an 8-32 tap, 0.7" deep into aluminum. The threads are gorgeous and because there are no chips getting caught in the hole, it could have kept threading to China. Why did I wait so long to try these things? :wee:

Yup, it's just a tap. The difference is that it doesn't cut. You drill the hole a little bigger than a cut thread. It's tapered and it 'pushes' the material into a thread shape--the low spots flow into the high spots.

I thought they would take a lot of force before running it, but wasn't sure. I tried two identical taps from the same manufacturer.

The 'cutting' tap went ok through most of the hole then jammed (normal chip binding). When I tried to back it out, it locked against the curled chips. It took a little wiggling to get it loose. That's nothing new--been doing it for years.

The forming tap just took a steady torque. It never got harder or easier. Once the thread starts 'forming', the force remains constant. It felt about the same as a tight nylock nut.

I ran 4 parts with two holes each. Painless. :D 20 more parts to go.

I love form taps. I use mine on 6061, and 1045. I peck tap in steel, usually about .2" per peck.

Hi Guys,
Great Thread. I want to pick up on the last note mentioned here. I was considering Form-Taps for a while, then asked someone that I know in a production shop environment with that thought. He claimed that the Form Taps were awesome, but at times, in Aluminum, some material could Gall-up on the Tap, and then the Tap Breaks in the next hole. Have any of you guys experienced anything like this? Maybe it is Coolant related? I'm in the mood to completely switch to Form Taps, including in mild steel. How fast can they be spun? Any input here would be appreciated.
Regards,
John