This project will be a new Mill Console to house all of the mills electronics, switches, power supplies, monitor, keyboard etc.
The only components not included will be the actual Windows PC.
I want to keep it separate so that I could easily upgrade the PC down the road.
I'll be using some stripped frames from a few old towers that have piled up over the years.
Finished dimensions will be about 24x21x14.
I'll still use my original control panel (http://www.hossmachine.com/projects_2.html#control%20panel) with it, but probably change some of the switches.
I want to add a Manual Pulse Generator (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=157) too.
The joystick is nifty but the MPG will be more useful.
All of the panels on the face will be removable so that I can change my mind
and reorganize the switches and such if necessary. It's bound to happen.:)
I've been putting this off for a while because the details weren't coming.
Usually ideas will just come to me while driving home, just before bedtime, dropping a deuce, etc.:)
I'll make notes and figure it all out later.
I mull over a few options but If I don't like any of them, I just wait.
Eventually it just hits me.(nuts) and I get to work.
Time to get to work.
I have a video (http://www.hossmachine.com/Videos10.html#videos57&58) showing the cutting of the keyboard and monitor panels using the flood coolant for the first time.
Went OK, does need a tweak or 2 to the strainers, they clogged a little.
Shows the benefits of the extra capacity of the X and Y travels.
Later Hoss

as always cant wait to see

Hoss,
I am glad to hear this is your next project as you know, this is the one I have been waiting for!!!!!!

:wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee:

Thanks
Bill

Hey Bill,
Working on the face frame right now. It will mount to the PC cases and give
me a frame to screw all the panels onto.
That way, if I change my mind later it will be easy to replace or modify a switch layout.
It will be 24 x 24 inches now. Plenty of room for doohickys and thingamabobs.
I'm hoping to have all the framework and such done by next month
so I can spend my vacation doing all the wiring. I'll make schematics this time.:)
Later Hoss

Hoss,

As "Gomer Pile" put it so eloquently,

Thaaankya, Thaaankya, Thaaankya,

I can't wait to see this take shape. I am dying to see how you integrate all the doohickys and thingamabobs. You must not forget all the bell's and whistles either. I am very curious on the MPG as I want to make the pendant with one also. I wonder how much of this will work with the HobbyCNC 4Pro kit I use.

I am finished with the Tapping Tool and the ATC you have so graciously given us (many, many thanks).

I am starting to CNC my Mini Lathe now while I wait to see what comes of this new project you have embarked on. I have all the material and am now getting around to drawing it up and tool pathing it up.

One question though, well two;

How are you adding all the goodies to your electronics and do you think I have to change over to something else other than the HobbyCNC driver to get it all to work. I'm wanting to be able to use some kind of a programmable controller to control the spindle, along with the pendant and tapper and the list goes onnnnnnnn!

So many things to make and so little time, I'm just glad you are in the "Driver" seat (pun intended)!

Thanks Again
Bill

Hey Bill,
Don't know much about the Hobbycnc board, you may need a breakout board for the extra inputs/outputs.
One of the parts I'm adding is this 19 in. widescreen monitor (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-6199) from Dell.
My eyes are going south, need the bigger screen.
Hoss

Finally got around to finishing the face frame.
I'll make individual panels for the switches etc. that will mount onto this frame.
Used some .190 x .750 6061 and riveted the half laps together.
Now to mount the frame to the old PC cases.
Later Hoss

A little more progress.
Have the basic frame made, now to button it up with some sheet metal
from the old PC cases and aluminum plate.
In 2 weeks i'll start transferring the electronics from the old console.
Hoss

the art of taking a pinto and turning it into a corvette hey hoss what is going to be the footprint of your machine ounce you are done

Hey ataxy,
With the flood coolant enclosure, I'm taking up about 4 x 8 feet of workbench.
The lathe will take up another half that too when it finally ships in April.
Have to store some of the woodworking tools to make room.
Guess I could move the hottub (http://www.hossmachine.info/fun_stuff.html#hot%20tub) outside. :)
Hoss

holy 4x8 wow big foot print

Hoss,

It looks like it's really coming along nicely. Starting to get me wondering if I want to make one also. Is that a mini keyboard from Sony for the Playstation? If so ... I have one already! :D

I am hoping you document all that you are doing, I just might need that information from you! will you be adding a pendant also that plugs into the console?

Keep on with your work!

BTW ... you should plan on going to the WESTEC show out here in LA to get some really cool ideas.

Bill

Hey Bill,
It's a PS2 mini-keyboard from Dell (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/I_O_Devices/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0572137).
Probably no pendant since it will sit right next to the mill enclosure.
Most of the switches will be on the left side.
Gonna have some open panels on the right till I think of stuff to throw in there.
Maybe a digital tach, coolant tank fluid level gage(have an old fuel tank gage and sender), etc.
Hoss

Picked up this trackball/mouse (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/I_O_Devices/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0062590) from Dell too.
Now I won't need to add a shelf to use the regular mouse.
Hoss

he hoss just a idea if you check dells server section you can find one of there compact server kb which have a touchpad mouse like a laptop

kinda like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823166076

the one from dell is smaller (size of laptop kb and then touch pad to left)

i have one at work i will see if i can get a part number

Mike

Drat it all to heck,
that would have been more convenient.
I may just have to reconfigure for that.
Thanks, :cheers:
Hoss

Hoss,

I am not sure you want a touch pad for it. I use a laptop to run mine and I have to wipe my hands VERY WELL or the touch pad does not work very well.

Just a thought ....

Bill

I believe the trackball is the better choice-I have one similar to this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823131087

hey hoss i was wrong itis a trackball on the kb i was talking about the p/n is 0292cx i have found a couple on the internet but they are kinda pricey. i bet you can find one on newegg for less

mike

Idea on the keyboard.
Would be neat if you could pull it down & out so you can use it easier.
Maybe have it slide out if you have the room inside, then you could put a motor on it with a push button.
Craze huh.

Skip20

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823166011
Laptop Keyboard Trackball!!!!

I have the majority of the Console panels milled now.
Drew up and milled the rear panel for all of the plugs and ports today.
Have more in there than I need right now but you never know.
There won't be any wires coming out like the old console,
everything will have it's own plug.
Hoss

Making progress.
Panels are mounted, just need a little paint.
Next is buttoning the rest of the console with sheet metal,using the old PC case remains.
Think I'll go with the short toggle switches.
The holes above are for LED's.
the space at the bottom is for the original control panel and maybe a cubby hole.
Hoss

Rolling along.
All buttoned up now.
Next is the fun part, throwing all the electronics in there.
Later Hoss

Looks good Hoss, its nice to have everything all in one place and neat, especially if you have to troubleshoot anything. Tracing wires through a squirrels nest is fun.

The old control panel (http://www.hossmachine.info/projects_2.html#control%20panel) is dead and sacrificed for the new console.
Cut it up and yanked it's guts.
Still using the electronics to allow a bunch of toggle switches and keygrabber
to control a lot of the Mach 3 buttons.
Started playing around with Screens 4 from Machsupport.com (http://www.machsupport.com/artsoft/downloads/downloads.htm)
Figured out how to edit the standard screen set to let me program hotkeys
for any of the buttons on the screens.
That way keygrabber can be used to remap them for the console buttons.
Found a program called screentweak from a guy on the mach yahoo forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc) files section.
It will show you what buttons on the Mach 3 screen have keyboard hotkeys.
Showed me a few I didn't know like Block Delete or M1 Op Stop.
Screens 4 will let me assign hotkeys to anything and add buttons too.
Crap, I might need to order more toggles.:)
Hoss

This video (http://www.hossmachine.info/Videos11.html#videos61&62) shows a little about the Hotkeys Mach 3 uses for the buttons
and how to modify them.
Hoss

Hi Hoss,
Another great thread.

I'm putting together bits for a consol so this is helping me lots. I have 3 MPG's from CNC4PC and plan on a few buttons and lights for the consol as well.
I'm using an old Fellowes touchpad for the mouse - see photo.

The video of how to create hotkeys made it easy to understand. I might be jumping the gun but it would be great if you can take that further by showing how to assign the hotkeys to a mechanical button/switch.

Hey Rod,
I have a 3 page tutorial that shows how to use Keygrabber that comes with Mach 3.
( it's installed in the Mach folder)
It's below the old control panel pics here (http://www.hossmachine.info/projects_2.html#control%20panel).
The panel switches need to be soldered to the switches on the game controllers.
Keygrabber will recognize when a button is pushed on the controllers and ask what
keyboard key/s to assign to it.
I'll make another video when I get that far again.
Still have a couple circuit boards to mount in the console and some switches on the panels
then I can start wiring it all up.:eek:
Hoss

Thanks Hoss,
That makes sense now. I couldn't work out how to get a switch to interface with Mach3 but using them through the game controller is clever.
Luck with the wiring.

Just about have the switches wired up.
Wired them all up to plugs of one sort or another so that I can remove a panel
and unplug from a harness.
Soldering all those little pins is a pain.
Hoss

It's looking great.
Is it bigger then the machine!

I agree with Skip20! I'm very impressed. Can't wait to see more

You're a madman hoss, the deciphering of all the wiring alone would give me a heart attack lol!!

It looks great!!! :)

I was wondering why you hadn't posted for a while and now I know why.
There is a lot of work in that and it is coming along great.

I was wondering why you hadn't posted for a while and now I know why.
There is a lot of work in that and it is coming along great.

Wish I could blame it on the complex wiring but i've just been lazy.
Seems hard to get motivated sometimes.

Skip, it's 24 x 24 so it's pretty close.

Hoss - are you still working a day job?!? I vote for you to delve into this full-time...

Hoss - are you still working a day job?!? I vote for you to delve into this full-time...

Technically, I usually work 2 am to 10:30 am. or noon. Some Saturdays.
Makes me sleepy for some reason.:)
Hoss

Moving along.
The MPG panel switches are mounted along with the keyboard.
The rear panel is practically complete.
Should have a few extra ports for future expansion.
Have (2) C10 boards mounted.
Don't want to have any permanent wires coming out of the console,
want everything to have a plug.

Got power!
Made a buss board from an old cdrom case.
Put in terminal blocks for 110 VAC, 5 VDC, 12 VDC and 40 VDC also a separate
12 VDC for the C6 board.
Have the main power switch connected too, might replace it with a key switch
to make it cooler.
Can kill all power to the console with one switch at shutdown.
Hoss

Now that power is hooked up the leds are working for all the switches.
Got around to making a little progress video of the console.
To think I thought I was gonna have it all done during my vacation back in March.
Ha, maybe by my next one in July:)

Mill Console Progress

WOW, that's a wiring nightmare !!!!!!!

Hoss, how are you going to label everything? What method of lettering, decals or possibly dry transfers?

WOW, that's a wiring nightmare !!!!!!!

Ahh, just going one switch at a time. Otherwise I'd get a headache.

fretsman Hoss, how are you going to label everything? What method of lettering, decals or possibly dry transfers?

I have a bunch of Rowmark (http://panterials.com/rotary_engraving_materials/index.shtml) engraving material like what's used for name tags
that I'll engrave when it's all finished.
Hoss

Hoss,

And what model of airplane is this for?

When are you launching to MARS!

To Infinity and Beyond!
Switches are coming together.
I have 31 switches available on the USB game controller circuit boards
but I'm only using 22 for the console, for now.
Don't think there's much else to control in Mach 3.
Here's another video.
Hoss
Mill Console USB Controllers and Switch Panels

Here's another video, Shows some of the MPG Panel buttons and what
they'll control in Mach 3.
Mill Console MPG Panel Buttons

Looking really great Hoss! I can see a console will have to go on my to do list as well! You are a bad influence - keep up the good work! :D

Yeah, I have way too many TO DO's on my list.:)

Yeah, I have way too many TO DO's on my list.:)

That's okay, as long as the next item on the list is this one: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56451

tom

Yeah, the 16T ATC is at the top after the console.
I can put a new roof on the deck anytime.:)
I just ordered the aluminum stock that I'll need for the big parts yesterday.
All the prints are done and I have the Gcode for the complex pieces finished.
Just have to get another stepper motor for it later.
Hoss

getting closer.

Looking good there and thanks for the video on key grabber.

Plodding along, The USB boards have some extra juice now.
Wired them up to 5VDC since the USB can't provide enough on it's own.
Assigned most of the switches with Keygrabber.
mill console progress usb and keygrabber
Go Pens!

Hoss!! u be da man !!!! Another awesome project! Your up there with the Widgitmaster,Joecnc2006 and others! You are achieving Godlike stature!!

Keep up the good work!!

Go Pens!

well now I just lost all respect for you, my friend (flyer fan here...).....lol!

Good luck with the cup quest!!

Hoss!! u be da man !!!! Another awesome project! Your up there with the Widgitmaster,Joecnc2006 and others! You are achieving Godlike stature!!

Keep up the good work!!

No, but maybe an apostle.:)
Holy crap has Joe been busy on here.
I've got a lot of catching up to do.:eek:


fretsman

Go Pens!

well now I just lost all respect for you, my friend (flyer fan here...).....lol!
Ouch! 6-0. ;)

I have a Brain!
A Mach 3 brain to be exact.
The MPG Panel has a step mode switch and a port selector switch
but for Mach 3 to be able to use them it has to have a Brain to control the MPG.
Watch the tutorials here (http://www.machsupport.com/Videos/Mach3%20Video%20Selections/Mach3%20Video%20Selections.html).
Cnc4pc is where I got my MPG and they have a few Pendants that also use it.
I borrowed the sample brain with the MPG2 (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=158).
I needed to do a little brain surgery to get it to work with my setup but once you get
playing around with the editor, it's pretty easy.
Brains are pretty amazing stuff.
I made a video showing what I modified but it's too big for Youtube,
I'll have to split it and upload them later.
Watch the end result here.
MPG Under Brain Control

Here's the 2 videos for setting up the MPG with the cnc4pc brain in Mach 3.
MPG Brain Setup Part 1
MPG Brain Setup Part 2

Getting close to the end!
Wired up the spindle circuit board (http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007021310531501&item=11-2449&catname=electric) and the new C6 board (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=58) from Cnc4pc today.
Had to play around a little but the C6 board is working perfectly and NO sparks!:)
The new board is bigger than the old board I fried, has a couple relays on this one.
Made sure I used a separate 12V power supply (http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-12150/12V-1.5A-SWITCHING-POWER-SUPPLY/1.html) to power the C6 this time.
Set up the Mach 3 parameters as written but had to make an adjustment.
I wasn't getting any speed change(output voltage) when I lowered the RPM.
The C6 was outputting 10.7 Volts to the spindle board no matter what.
After some experimenting, figured out that the velocity setting in the motor tuning config was off.
The recommended setting is Max or 1500.
I lowered the velocity, after several tests, to 190. Works perfect now.
Yours may vary.
I have the spindle pulley 1 set at my max of 6100 RPM.
That output 98.5 Volts to the motor.
Then I set the Spindle Speed in Mach 3 to 3050.
I adjusted the Velocity down (several times) until it output about 49 Volts to the motor.
Double checked that 6100 RPM still put out 98.5 volts and that's it.
Good to go!
Here's the Video of the end result.
C6 Setup and Demo
Hoss

Hoss,
The videos help a lot and this thread has finally inspired me to get off my backside and make a start on my console.

I really don't know why but I got thinking about duplicating a keyboard with momentary switches so a couple of nights ago I pulled apart a keyboard and it didn't look all that difficult to hitch up. A bit of googling and I found out keyboards work on a matrix and that a combination of wires produces the key.
Here is the result and you can see the keyboard module and the wires I soldered to the lugs and run down to connectors. I have tested it and it works perfect. It has a PS2 connector and Windows will also run a UBS keyboard with this attached. This was a major achievement as electronics is normally mumbo jumbo to me. :)

I have already given up on the idea of using switches for a full keyboard but will use this to connect to momentary switches for all the shortcuts in Mach3.

Apologies for butting in on your thread but thought it relevant and maybe of interest to you or somebody else.

The end is near!
Finalizing some details.
The drivers are wired up though I need a couple more from Keling.
4 axis' are ready to go.
Made an extra switch panel really for maintenance.
Lets me kill power to the individual circuit boards i.e. C6,C10's Monitor, etc.
Ordered more wire and zip ties to get things neat and tidy.
Won't be long, :o
Hoss

WOW, Sure hope you have a Label Maker!!!!
Skip

I made a wiring diagram to show how I hooked up the C6 (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=58) and the replacement spindle circuit board (http://www.hossmachine.info/projects_3.html#circuit%20board)
with a manual / PC selector switch (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/199).
Original circuit boards should use P1 and P2.
Hoss

Hey Hoss, amazing work as always. You and Widgitmaster are my two favorite to watch and learn from. I also could never remember where the "Nice Toys" quote came from. Then I watched Bladerunner for the 30th time, this time in HD (looks AWESOME by the way) and finally found out. Very appropriate

Thanks pizza,
That's one of my favorite movies.
One of these days I'll get around to making a replica of Deckard's Blaster, so cool.
They go about $800 on Ebay.
Hoss

...I just got it hoss (duh). I knew I've heard the pharse before when I read it from your quote...man that's one of my favorite movies. I have the original VHS (never been opened) and re-rlease dvd to watch over and over when the time calls for it. a friend of mine has been building the blaster for like four years, now. He wants to follow the original design/plans using the same real but inoperable guns used to bodge the whole blaster together . I'll see if i can get a pic of the blaster build, but this is what he began with:

http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm

http://www.racprops.com/issue1/brgun_pt2/

and ended up purchasing one of these for personal research and development

http://www.sidkit.com/bmetal/brmetal.htm

This is pretty cool, too. This guy makes his own props without the use of CNC, it's amazing:

http://www.klinefx.com/Props.html

http://www.mechanicalphilosopher.com/ekline01.jpg

If Bladerunners anybody[s] favorite movie, you have to admire Syd Mead's work he designed the spinner (police vehicle) Gene Winfield actually built it for the movie.

http://media.bladezone.com/contents/film/production/props/lostandfound/spinner_and_sedan/spinner_and_sedan.php

The car still looks awesome even for todays standards

Oh and hoss nice work on the console project...looking forward to watching the completion, specially in vids.

sorry for rambling.

Thanks Edwin,
I've seen a few of those links but not all of them.
Now if I could just figure out how to build a Rachael, I'd be all set:)
Blade Runner Trivia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/trivia)
Hoss

...if do figure out how to build rachael, be sure to post the build via video so we can watch it over and over again...from top to bottom...in slow motion, heck, Hoss, I'll give you my whole paycheck just to watch...lol

Wiring is completed, at least for now.:tired:
Have all 6 Keling KL-4030's installed and wired up.
Have to put a couple fans here and there and put the cubby hole
in the front for the trackball.
Then there's all the labeling to be done.:eek:
Think I'll just use my Brother P-Touch for now,
make the permanent engraved tags later.
Had to build a new PC for the mill, the old 1 Ghz couldn't keep up with all
the extra goodies especially the Webcam for Stickam (http://www.stickam.com/hossmachine).
Will fly now with a P4 3.2 Ghz.
Hoss

:eek: Wow. I can't think of more to say than that.

I don't know, there's still a lot of blank space just begging for something to be installed! lol!

Nice job, hoss-:)

Yeah I know, Those are for some luxury accessories down the road
i.e. digital tachometer and Flood Coolant Tank level gage for starters.:)
I have about 12 unused ports on the rear panel begging for something too.
I've had my fill of wiring for a while. :tired:
Hoss

that's one crazy rig you've made there Hoss, you're going to make the PC mod'ers jealous
:)

All I can say is...if you build it, they will drool...but i guess that is the whole point.:)

Hey hoss, ya' now how cool your rigs is? So cool, you're going to make other PC modders jealous...lol...man if that isn't flattery I don't know what is...lol

It's finished!:)
See the complete write up and final pics here (http://www.hossmachine.info/forum/yaf_postsm22_Hoss-Mill-Console-Project.aspx).
Hoss

Fantastic job Hoss ! Both in concept and execution and also in your compilation of the pictures and info. THANKS, I've learned allot just reading your posts and over at your website.

I haven't found where you state which Logitech controller you used though, I have this one: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/joysticks/devices/291&cl=us,en

Will that one work with Keygrabber ?

I just want to make a pendant (after I finish CNC'ing my Grizzly G8689).

Thanks,

Steve

EDIT: NVM, I just found it on one of your pages. Sorry about that chief !

pete from TN asked about all the buttons on the console so I made a video
showing what they all do.

YouTube - Mill Console Overview

I've also read some others that have said Mach 3 doesn't play well with the internet so I made another video.
My old 1.2 Ghz had the problem but the new P4 3.2 Ghz has NO problem.
It's running XP and 512M RAM and Mach3 ver. 3.039.
Hoss

YouTube - Mach 3 and the Internet

You can watch the High Quality versions.

Haha that is great man you are talking to me in the video... I guess now I am famous right.... The video is much appreciated hoss. A few questions tho.... It seems like you never have to touch the mouse there is that the idea behind all that stuff. It also seems that many of the switches are redundant and some are not used just yet. I guess my main question to you is if you had to do it all over again( perish the thought) what do you feel is really necessary and useful and what is just gadjetry? I am probably going to use a bit of that stuff on my machine at some point, I for sure would like to have an mpg and some of the function buttons like you have but what would your advice be on the rest of it....

How do you manage to make a button for every single thing on the mach 3 screen? does it all run thru the bob and have an output from or to the paralell port? Forgive me if I sound like a moron here but I am still new to this stuff. I am sure that once I get my machine running some of these answers will become obvious but at this juncture you appear to me a magician to me!! Thanks for the video man....peace

I still use the mouse which of course can be used to control everything.
switches are just cool.
I use all the controls whenever the mood strikes.
A little quicker to just reach out and flip the switch.
most of them are controlled with keygrabber and the 2 usb controllers.
hava a little tutorial here (http://www.hossmachine.info/projects_2.html#control%20panel).
Hoss

Now I guess I can't say that I was never shown how to do that!! That is about as good a teaching video as I have ever seen man. I really cannot wait to get this machine running, it is like a sickness now. Bummer tho, I stripped the machine all down to the metal and painted it with some paint my paint guy recommended. Stripped it, primed it, painted it and let it dry overnight. Now I started to pull some of the tape off and found that the paint just peels right off the metal. The primer is not the right stuff for the application I guess so I gotta strip it all back down tomorrow and then repaint it again this time with some more appropriate metal primer. Any of you guys got a recommendation for the primer? The paint I used is some Urethane enamel that seems to be very good stuff. I kinda cheated and did not prime the little factory handle mount that I bored for the floating end of the X ballscrew. I basically forgot it when I was priming the rest of the parts. I then just shot the paint on it and would you believe the paint is really stuck on that part!! I read the container again and it said that the paint is made for bare metal like sheds and stuff like machinery like the mill. Perhaps I will just paint the damn thing without priming it next time. Bummer is that I got it looking real nice and the paint matches the extendable arm I bought for my monitor about perfect. What would you do? peace

Only two things to say about the control panel demo video:

1. Obviously you have now achieved "optimal combat self-sufficiency." Roy would be proud of you!

2. Had to go smoke a cig after. I am so jealous!

Cheers,

BW

Dupont Variprime 615S/625S etching primer....AWESOME stuff!

That is cool man, now where can I get that stuff? peace

Only two things to say about the control panel demo video:

1. Obviously you have now achieved "optimal combat self-sufficiency." Roy would be proud of you!

2. Had to go smoke a cig after. I am so jealous!

Cheers,

BW

That gives me an idea for the new mills console, a Voight Kampff machine clone.:)
I could run the mill and test for replicants.;)
Hoss

1187 Hunterwasser?

I am a big fan of ambient music and the love theme from Blade runner is awesome... Vangelis is the master and I cannot beleive that the only thing most people know him for is the song from Chariots of fire. Rutger hauer is really disturbing in that movie as usual and Harrison ford is at his best... GREAT FLICK and one of my all time favorites....peace

That is cool man, now where can I get that stuff? peaceSorry, missed you question. I got mine from an automotive paint supply house way back in the day. You might have to get somebody in the bid'ness to get it for you due to more stringent reg's nowadays. I'm not sure if you can buy it online due to shipping issues. Figures, the good stuff is hard to get.:rolleyes:

I've heard about etching primer available in a rattle can but haven't tried any. A Googly search will bring up various suppliers & names.

I am a big fan of ambient music and the love theme from Blade runner is awesome... Vangelis is the master and I cannot beleive that the only thing most people know him for is the song from Chariots of fire. Rutger hauer is really disturbing in that movie as usual and Harrison ford is at his best... GREAT FLICK and one of my all time favorites....peace

I also liked Vangelis' music for the Cosmos series with the late Carl Sagan.
Now if I could just get around to making me my own Blaster!
Hoss