Hello Guys,

I have been lurking around the boards for a few months now and Have
decided on buying a mini mill for my home workshop. :)

Anyhow, I just wanted a little input on my choice of mill. I live in Ottawa, Canada and we certainly do not have the same level of accessibility to the many lovely mill drills as you can get in the states but a local company BusyBee Tools just came out with a new mini mill that seems to fit the bill.

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=CT129

I also found what appears to be the exact same mill on the WARCO UK site

http://www.warco.co.uk/productimages/documents/P53.pdf

They seem to have a little more info on it. I was wondering if anyone has used this specific mill and if so what their experience was?

My main use is for machining aluminum parts, and I would like to eventually do a CNC conversion on it. I know I could get a bigger machine for close to the same price but I am limited to getting something relatively light since it has to go down in my basement, if I had a garage I would have gone for a free standing unit ;).

I took a machine shop course back in 83 where I learned to use a Milling machine and metal lathe but it's been 25 years (oh how time goes..sigh) and I have lost most of my machine skills, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on quality instructional material and books for the beginning machinist?

There is also a quick question, when a mill states that it's "End mill capacity is 5/8" does that mean that 5/8" cutting dia is the largest size that the motor can handle or does it refer only to the maximum tool shank diameter? I ask because for certain design work I will need to use a 7/8" dia endmill and ball endmill. I'm sure there must be some reduced shank type endmills that will work with shallow cuts and lubrication on 6061 aluminum.

THanks for all your help in advance!

Frank ;)

Just to get you started :)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40833

i have exactly the same mill but branded under the name elite from garant in levis quebec i must say that i am more then happy with it the only con that i think it as is the fact that its a mt2 taper wich is not as common as the regular r8 taper but the overall built of this mill is really good it offers excellent regidity and performance and with the option of been able to get a longer table it is more then a good candidate to be converted to cnc

here is the site of the company that makes them in china
http://www.weiss.com.cn/products/wmd20v.php



There is also a quick question, when a mill states that it's "End mill capacity is 5/8" does that mean that 5/8" cutting dia is the largest size that the motor can handle or does it refer only to the maximum tool shank diameter? I ask because for certain design work I will need to use a 7/8" dia endmill and ball endmill. I'm sure there must be some reduced shank type endmills that will work with shallow cuts and lubrication on 6061 aluminum.


the motor can handle more i order this holder wich is er-32
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ER32-MT2-M10-COLLET-CHUCK-KEY-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-A74_W0QQitemZ110215021740QQihZ001QQcategoryZ36345QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

as for the morse taper i have ordered some collet true ebay for pretty cheap and the are well made for the type of performance and precision you can expect from such a machine
here is wherei bought mine
http://stores.ebay.ca/CTC-Tools

edit: i have check with busybee the one they sell does not seem to come with any equipment so you will have to buy accessorie seperatly
here is the one i bought
http://www.garantmachinerie.com/Industriel_neuf/Fraiseuses%20etabli%20serie%20WSM.pdf

Just to get you started :)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40833

Thanks Oldmanandhistoy,

Your mill looks to be the same design as the one I'm looking at, just a couple of minor cosmetic diffs and speed display. I'm glad to hear that you find it
to be a great piece of equipment!

Thanks for the links!


Frank ;)

Thanks for all your info ataxy!
Always a pleasure to hear from fellow Canadians. Merci beaucoup mon ami pour toutes les informations (sorry my written french is a little rusty).

Based on all the positive feedback on this style of Mill just helps reinforce my confidence in my purchase. Now if only CSA will approve it and then BusyBee can get them to the store. :D

When you received your mill was it shipped in a single container? What were thw boxes approx measurements, did you have it delivered or did you pick it up yourself? I'm just trying to plan out how I'm going to get it into my basement and whether I can do it myself.

Frank

Thanks for all your info ataxy!
Always a pleasure to hear from fellow Canadians. Merci beaucoup mon ami pour toutes les informations (sorry my written french is a little rusty).
pas de probleme sa me fait plaisir!

Based on all the positive feedback on this style of Mill just helps reinforce my confidence in my purchase. Now if only CSA will approve it and then BusyBee can get them to the store. :D
weird why do they to get it approved since its allready sold in canada

When you received your mill was it shipped in a single container? What were thw boxes approx measurements, did you have it delivered or did you pick it up yourself? I'm just trying to plan out how I'm going to get it into my basement and whether I can do it myself.

Frank
i got mine delivered, it was two box one that wasnt to bad +/-60pounds for the base cabinet and the mill wich was poorly crated so unless busybee recrate it you will get the same flimsy crate, 1/8" plywood for the wall and 1/2" plywood for the bottom on wich the mill is screwed, i got but the mill was still in perfect shape as for bringing it down stair, i have mine down stair, it was quite a job to bring down at around 250 pounds but whe were only two

Thanks Oldmanandhistoy,

Your mill looks to be the same design as the one I'm looking at, just a couple of minor cosmetic diffs and speed display. I'm glad to hear that you find it
to be a great piece of equipment!

Thanks for the links!


Frank ;)


take note the one you see in this link is in fact the same aside from the motor wich is 200watts stronger but aside from that you are right it is basicly the same mill

When I originally went to BusyBee, they sale was already on but they did not have a floor model in the store yet.... I wanted to see it in the flesh before making my final decision. When I asked when they would get it in I was told that the machines were at their warehouse but were undergoing CSA approval before they could ship it to the stores (That was about 2 weeks ago).

The delay worked out alright since in the original sale (which ended Jan 13) it was priced at $1158.99 CAD but since they were not ready yet they included it in their following sale for $1098.99, $60.00 cheaper :). When I called on monday I was told that it should arrive this week. :banana:


Frank

let me know if the have stuff coming with it or if its just a plain mill

let me know if the have stuff coming with it or if its just a plain mill


You got it! ;)

hey in case you are interested i received today my longer table from the L version of this mill/drill here is a photo with this table it now gives me ~17.5x-7.5y-12z by the way the base of this mill is easly modifiable to get 8.5y without sacrificing rigidity as it is now when i bring it foward to its max it sticks out of the dovetail by about 3\4

hey in case you are interested i received today my longer table from the L version of this mill/drill here is a photo with this table it now gives me ~17.5x-7.5y-12z by the way the base of this mill is easly modifiable to get 8.5y without sacrificing rigidity as it is now when i bring it foward to its max it sticks out of the dovetail by about 34


Thank you ataxy,

Did you get the extended table at Garant as well? I couldn't find it on the web site.

Frank

yeah i got it from them they dont carry the L version since they have the wsm30v wich is the bigger sister of the 20 serie so the price difference would be to close but i have talked with them about the fact that busybee will cary the same mill for 600$ less so i think they are waiting to see if it will come with the same eqipment as them and then they will adjust the price accordingly... i guess cuz even if it comes with base, er25 holder with five collet, 6hss endmill, half inch drill chuck and vise and a 50pcs clamp set it does not justyfy the 600$ difference but they have a wonderfull customer service but so does busybee.
for your own info the extended table was 280 if i was willing to wait for there container and 380 if i wanted it inside a month but since i was in no hurry i waited and saved 100

Since I'm taking tomorrow off I'll give BusyBee a shout and see if the mill is in yet and ask them what comes with it. I tend to doubt they will give me all the stuff you got with yours, but who knows.


Frank ;)

they could busybee as some great deal sometime for homeshop

I went to busy bee here in toronto to look at this mill, but the toronto location won't have any in stock until the end of feb. My plan is to trash my old cnc retrofit round column fom busy bee and install some ground ball screws on the new square column. Is the Z axis of the square column operate with a lead screw or rack and pinion? I have my fingers crossed that it is lead so I can replace it with a ball screw. If not I will have to search for a square column mill from another company.

It's a little frustrating waiting for BusyBee to get the Mill in stock, they never can give me any specific time frame for it's arrival. lately I have been looking at the Taig mini mill
for sale by deepgroove1 for $1500.00 CNC ready.

http://stores.ebay.ca/deepgroove1

The more I think about it the more I am inclined to go with the taig CNC, the only down side is the more limited work envelope as well as tool size, but for the small projects that
I'm going to use it for it's adequate.... and it's CNC plug and play ready.

if it fits the work enveloppe you need then at 1500$ its a good bet but if you think that ounce you would get around using it you may start to have bigger thing you would lke to do then it may be worth thinking about it but yes the taig are nice little machine for small part in soft material

I'm mostly interested in making parts in aluminum as well as molds. I plan on building a CNC router as well 2' X 2' work envelope, so this machine could help build some of the parts for it's big brother ;)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48363

here is my original post.

Guy's,

Would this small mill/drill be good for strictly drilling?i'm not at you crazy cnc nuts knowledge level :) i'm looking to accuratly drill steel and drill in bearing races to an accurate depth using counterbores.basically,could i use one of these as a accurate dead nuts on drill press?

sorry for not having replyed the stiffer the machine the better the counter bore you will have... actualy the stiffer the machine the better you will get everything

If you want "dead nuts?" on the Z axis you will need a DRO on the quill regardless of what machine you use. Counterboring a hole for a bearing installation is not a good way to achieve a precision fit. What size bearings?

Phil

PS: You need to define dead nuts. 0.1mm. 0.01mm. 0.001mm. or less than 0.001mm.

Guy's,

Would this small mill/drill be good for strictly drilling?i'm not at you crazy cnc nuts knowledge level :) i'm looking to accuratly drill steel and drill in bearing races to an accurate depth using counterbores.basically,could i use one of these as a accurate dead nuts on drill press?

Thanks fella's.

It does'nt have to be dead nuts on,just as close as possible.i'm going to pick up the busy bee mill/drill. i'm a knifemaker,so drilling accurate holes for folders is a must.i've been making due with drill presses.i'm using 5/16" counterbore with 3/16" pilot for boring out my races.so i really just need a good square table/spindle.the mill will also come in handy for tons of other knifemaking needs.

Do you's know if this can be converted to 110v?? i've called two different locations and nobody can tell me.
http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=1827300219081766072&NTITEM=B1976

Hi Frank...

I am another lurker looking for the exact same thing as you in a benchtop CNC mill, also in Ottawa...

I found a couple of good deals in the states that I couldn't get back into Canada without a broker, $, $ and $ :boxing:

Thanks a lot for the link to Busy Bee that is now my number 1 on the list.

Do you know where a CNC conversion kit can be bought for this unit?

After all the research I have done on this, I have quickly come to the realisation that I need to buy a 'ready to go' solution, not build my own.

I need a lathe too, but thats another can of worms!

Cheers

Goose

Hi all...

Would someone please explain the following specs to me...

This mini mill will handle any kind of job up to 4/5" (20mm),
1/2" end mills (16mm) and 2 1/2" (63mm) face mill capacity.

Is a 'job' a bit? 20mm bit?

1/2" end mills... is this the depth when milling an end?

2 1/2" Face mill capacity? is this the maximum X&Y for a single face?

Noob.

Cheers!

Goose

Face mill is a cutter used to face a part... so they're saying that you could use face mills upto 2 1/2" in diameter.

!/2" end mills maybe referring to the max diameter of end mills to be used

The job reference may have me confused.... They may be talking about jobber drills, if that's what they're referring to then the max diameter drill that can be used is 20mm

Cheers,
Jack

Just purchased a Taig CNC from "Deepgroove1" it's coming from Newyork but from my
inquiries the duty should come to $180.00 or so. Hopefully no surprise brokerage charges
as they are using a freight forwarding company rather than couriers.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/4-axis-Taig-cnc-mill-milling-machine-engraver-router_W0QQitemZ160210988359QQihZ006QQcategoryZ34083QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Funny,, the shipping cost and base price went up $50.00 from when I ordered it last night. Base was $1500.00 and shipping was $110.00 u.s. I guess he saw another Canuck was ordering and discovered his shipping was going to cost more than the last one he shipped up here ;)

In the end I thought his price was good considering that it is CNC ready plug and play :) and all shipped together versus buying mill, buying motors, and buying control unit separately.

I'll let you know how it all goes when I get my mill.

Hi Frank...

I am another lurker looking for the exact same thing as you in a benchtop CNC mill, also in Ottawa...

I found a couple of good deals in the states that I couldn't get back into Canada without a broker, $, $ and $ :boxing:

Thanks a lot for the link to Busy Bee that is now my number 1 on the list.

Do you know where a CNC conversion kit can be bought for this unit?

After all the research I have done on this, I have quickly come to the realisation that I need to buy a 'ready to go' solution, not build my own.

I need a lathe too, but thats another can of worms!

Cheers

Goose


Hi V8Goose,

I had looked into the CNC conversion for this mill as well, and found a company in the UK that sold the exact same mill with a CNC conversion. When I contacted them to see if they would sell a conversion kit for the mill they said that it was too difficult a process to convert the mill for them so they actually decided to stop offering the CNC version and don't plan on selling any conversion kits for it.

can't seem to find any other places that offer kits for that model, though I'm sure that some of the K2 or Harborfreight kits could be adapted to fit on the mill.

Frank ;)

Hi Frank...

I am another lurker looking for the exact same thing as you in a benchtop CNC mill, also in Ottawa...



I need a lathe too, but thats another can of worms!

Cheers

Goose


I found in my searches that Lee Valley Tools (just off pinecrest) sells the
Taig lathe, unfortunately they do not carry the mill :( . hope that helps if your looking for a small lathe.

Frank ;)

Hi all...

Would someone please explain the following specs to me...

This mini mill will handle any kind of job up to 4/5" (20mm),
1/2" end mills (16mm) and 2 1/2" (63mm) face mill capacity.

Is a 'job' a bit? 20mm bit?

1/2" end mills... is this the depth when milling an end?

2 1/2" Face mill capacity? is this the maximum X&Y for a single face?

Noob.

Cheers!

Goose

actualy busybee spec should be
3/4 drill size not shank (but i have a 1 inch drill with 1/2 inch shank it i have no problem using it)
5/8 endmill (this is only due to the fact that mt2 collet or er25 holder wont hold bigger endmill)
and yes its 2 1/2 inchs face mill but this is due to the motor been a 600 watt motor ( ~3/4hp-7/8hp) but physicly the mill could work with a 3 inch one

ps: on ebay there is a distributor from hong-kong that as mt2-er30 holder that will let you hold shank up to 7/8inch i got some from them and they work nicely with the mill make sure you take the good one if you order from them as they have metric and imperial thread for the draw bar
http://stores.ebay.ca/CTC-Tools

i have exactly the same mill but branded under the name elite from garant ....

Ataxy,

I am considering Busy Bee CT129, and you said that you are satisfied with Elite machine. What kind of work do you use this machine for?
Aluminium, brass, steel....?

And also what was included with your machine?
Was milling vice included? What was the quality of it?

Busy bee sells stand separately as well as all basic tooling...

thanks,
Roman
in Ottawa

The kit from garant comes with all the basic to start to play, set of key and allen key, er25 collet with 6 collet one set of 1/2 shank hss endmill (6), 1/2 keyless chechuck, toutch up pait kit, stand with two shelf, and mine had a tiny 2'' swivel vise but i think they changed it for a 4'' vise and a 50pcs clamp kit, i think that at now 1575$ its a pretty good deal.

As for the quality, i would say its on par with an x3 performance wise i used it to do mostly part into brass and aluminium but i have tryed inconel on it and as long as i kept my pass at a max of 0.025-0.03 with a .375 4flute carbide endmill and some cutting fluid it was fine cruising at 2ipm, in aluminium it had no problem doing 0.1 doc with a .5 2flute carbide endmill and a decent feed. The big advantage came from switching the 600watt motor to a 1000watt one, i think that is its weakest link, precision is trully good ounce you fine tune the gibs, the frame of the machine itself looks slim but its really thick so dont get fooled by it.

Ataxy,
Thanks for the info, I went to local Busy Bee store today to look at the machine.
It looks decent for what it is, but comes only with drill chuck and morse adapter.
Stand and vice are sold extra. Good thing however is that both, machine and stand, are on sale right now.
I already have ER collet set with MT2 shank so I do not need that. End mill set would be nice but even if I buy it separately, it will be still cheaper than buying Elite machine at $1,575.

Thanks for your help!

Roman
in Ottawa

Frank did you end up buying the mill from busy bee? I had my eye on it as well. Also have you found the answer to your 5/8" end mill question? I am wondering the same thing.

One more thing that I forgot to mention, gentleman at Busy Bee here in Ottawa told me that they will have soon replacement MT3 spindle fro CT129, it will be around ~$100.
That may be worth investment, the only question is how big is the I.D. of the lower bearing on CT129 spindle?
I am bit worry that spindle wont be as rigid with MT3 bore.
Any one has drawing of CT129 spindle or knows what is the bearing number??

Thanks
Roman
in Ottawa

It's actually not a spindle replacement as far as I know it's the newer machine. I just paid for one today, the CT129N I'll have it in two weeks. They had both side by side in the show room and the MT3 taper spindle is at least 1" larger in diameter than the MT2 spindle. It didn't look to me like the same size bearings/bore in the mill head, but I could be wrong.

Clinton

One more thing that I forgot to mention, gentleman at Busy Bee here in Ottawa told me that they will have soon replacement MT3 spindle fro CT129, it will be around ~$100.
That may be worth investment, the only question is how big is the I.D. of the lower bearing on CT129 spindle?
I am bit worry that spindle wont be as rigid with MT3 bore.
Any one has drawing of CT129 spindle or knows what is the bearing number??

Thanks
Roman
in Ottawa

humm interresting!

Hi Clinton,

I am aware of MT3 spindle and CT129N machine.
He actually said that it will be replacement spindle for CT129 (MT2) machine.

I did not see machines side by side but on their web site they look identical.
What I am worry about is shown on attached image.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showfull.php?photo=5270

All you can see from the outside is large end of the spindle (40 mm).
If all is the same between two machines (spindle head, bearings) then they can do two things to accommodate large taper of MT3.
They can either further reduce material between bearing and taper OR move taper more out. Neither solution is good for rigidity of the machine.

Roman

also they could extend the 40d x 29.5 by lets say 15mm thus bringing down the wide part of the mt3 taper and keeping the rest to the same size

also they could extend the 40d x 29.5 by lets say 15mm thus bringing down the wide part of the mt3 taper and keeping the rest to the same size

Ataxy,

That's what I meant by "moving taper out".
In any case, if the bearing arangement stays the same (distance between bearings) it will increase bending moment on the spindle, because it will move tool out as well.
That will cause the tool "spring" more under same machining parameters.
It looks like they just changed spindle rather than changing other parameters. They kept same motor (600W).
Roman

Wow. If you are that concerned about the reduced rigidity created by increasing the toolholder overhang, then I suggest you get a bigger machine. MT3 over MT2 is a no brainer.
Joe

Joe,
Bigger machine is no-brainer, but I have neither room for bigger machine, nor money.
I am almost decided on CT129.

My point is that Ataxy and others have machine with MT2 spindle taper and reported very good experience and value for the money.
However, MT2 tooling is a bit more difficult to source up here, so it would be nice to have machine with MT3 taper (which is more common), but if extended spindle changes (worsens) parameters of the machine then perhaps staying with MT2 taper is better solution.

That's the point of this discussion.
If I would have space and funds, I would go with bigger machine.

Roman

Yeah, space is always a concern, isn't it? I'm eyeing every nook and cranny in my shop trying to figure out how to get more tools in there.
Remember that the MT taper fills the spindle. If the tapers mate reasonably well, the structure in the spindle lost by going to the larger bore to accomodate the MT3 is offset almost entirely by filling it with the MT3 adapter. The increased overhang may have negligible effect depending on which element introduces the most flex into the system. The loss will be much greater if the bearings are the limiting factor, less resulting loss if the quill/head interface is the weak element, and negligible if the column/head interface is wonky.
Joe

Joe,
Bigger machine is no-brainer, but I have neither room for bigger machine, nor money.
I am almost decided on CT129.

My point is that Ataxy and others have machine with MT2 spindle taper and reported very good experience and value for the money.
However, MT2 tooling is a bit more difficult to source up here, so it would be nice to have machine with MT3 taper (which is more common), but if extended spindle changes (worsens) parameters of the machine then perhaps staying with MT2 taper is better solution.

That's the point of this discussion.
If I would have space and funds, I would go with bigger machine.

Roman

i really dont think that it will worsen the deflection of the machine

Yeah, space is always a concern, isn't it? I'm eyeing every nook and cranny in my shop trying to figure out how to get more tools in there.
Remember that the MT taper fills the spindle. If the tapers mate reasonably well, the structure in the spindle lost by going to the larger bore to accomodate the MT3 is offset almost entirely by filling it with the MT3 adapter. The increased overhang may have negligible effect depending on which element introduces the most flex into the system. The loss will be much greater if the bearings are the limiting factor, less resulting loss if the quill/head interface is the weak element, and negligible if the column/head interface is wonky.
Joe

Joe,

That's very good point, taper will fill it up.
I am not too worry, just tring to see it from every angle.

Roman

OK, I picked up my CT129 at Busy Bee here in Ottawa today.
It still sits in the car, I need to figure out how to get it in to basement (and make room for it).
It is quite heavy, I will most likely take it apart and clean it at the same time and bring it down piece by piece.
Looking forward to start making some chips.
I picked stand and few other things (toolmakers vice, clamping kit...)

Cheers,
Roman

Just wanted to pass along some info. I spoke with the ordering desk of the Concord store (Extension 6549) and found out they are ordering in a small quantity of R8 spindles for the CT129

I'm not sure if they are all spoken for or I'm the only one who ordered this so far.

I put a deposit down on one of them a couple of weeks ago they are going for $175.(I think) The estimated delivery was January 2009 but I called today and was updated to Dec 20th.

The part number is CT129R8 if you’re interested in ordering one. I ordered my mill early 2008 and got stuck with the MT2 like some of you.

I'm in no hurry because I am acquiring parts for a CNC conversion so far I just have my nook preloaded ball screws and deciding on a motor setup.

R8 tooling is everywhere so that's why I decided to get it.

All the best J

Recently I came across cheap ($6) LED light at Princess Auto. It's round and has 23 bright white LEDs.

It required little modification but makes nice spindle light.

Roman

Recently I came across cheap ($6) LED light at Princess Auto. It's round and has 23 bright white LEDs.

It required little modification but makes nice spindle light.

Roman

I did the same thing a few weeks ago for my RF45, but I built a new ring and added an ac adapter for power.

http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/22365235/hr/601782516/name/IMG_0875.jpg

Clinton

Nice job Clinton!
Mine is just quick hack :D
Mine spindle has DRO adapter so I could not go with continuous ring. I had to split it and make a relief for DRO adapter. LEDs that were removed in the process were added on the opposite side. I am also powering it with small AC adapter.
For fastening in on to the machine I used two small rare earth magnets.

Nice job Clinton!
Mine is just quick hack :D
Mine spindle has DRO adapter so I could not go with continuous ring. I had to split it and make a relief for DRO adapter. LEDs that were removed in the process were added on the opposite side. I am also powering it with small AC adapter.
For fastening in on to the machine I used two small rare earth magnets.

Sorry I meant to say yours looked very nice as well. Sometimes quick hacks are the best. :)

Clinton

Hi Clinton...

Your spindle light setup is pretty cool.

How is your RF45 working out for you?

Pat

Just read through the thread and it eased my fears about the CT129 quality. I was at Busy Bee in New Westminster during the week and had a look at the CT133, 129, and 129N. The 133 looks pretty decent but the 4" short travel is just too small and the machine is very small/light. I don't plan on doing much steel just brass and aluminium and I simply do not have room for knee mill. As it is the benchtop mill would have to actually go on my bench and not get its own stand.

Has anyone actually CNC'd their 129(N) yet?

It looks like the table leadscrews are 1/2-10 and the backlash was about .004 on the short axis and .006 on the long (at least on the store display machine) so I figured some AB nuts would be a good investment then realized I don't have a clue what AB nuts to use that would be strong enough - I'm used to the kerk style plastic nuts on my router but I can't imagine those would be any good on an actual mill. Hmm, maybe those linearmotionbearings2008 ballscrews? A couple short 16mm ones would be pretty inexpensive.

Of course, having the mill means I could make my own motor mounts!