I ordered a new Sieg X3 / G0463 from Grizzly last week. Like most new owners I have a few specific questions... Any help will be greatly appreciated. In return I will be posting a sweet CNC setup in the weeks to come :)


I have a set of Globe servo motors from my old Sherline CNC. They are rated for 60 oz. in. @ 1000 RPM continuous (500 oz. in. stall) when geared down 2.8:1 with a timing belt. Would this give enough torque to drive the X and Y axes (w/ 5mm pitch ballscrews)? Or would I need stronger motors?
Assuming I could afford some strong fast motors, what's the fastest feedrate I could get out of the X, Y, and Z axes, respectively?
Has anyone added homing switches to their X3 yet, and if so where exactly are they mounted?
I had a few questions on selecting a vise in another thread (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50311)... Hopefully they will be answered there, but if anyone else wanted to chime in on X3 vise selection here, please do.
I'll be taking the mill apart completely to make sure everything was assembled properly.. I found an excellent document on how to disassemble it (http://www.home-machine-shop.com/X3_Mill/X3_Mill_Prep_Guide.pdf) that I will be using. While I'm in there, would it be worth it to swap the spindle bearings with ones of better quality? Or are the stock ones good enough?


Thanks in advance,

Neil

Howdy Neil,

I can't really help you with the servo set-up, I used steppers (425 oz/in for x & y, 640 oz/in for z). Here's a link to a servo x3 video I saw the other day.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50288

I haven't done my home switches yet.

I got a 5 inch vise from enco for mine. It's kinda big (tall) even without the swivel base. I may buy the 4 inch vise later. My thinking was to get a vise that was not bigger then my smallest axis travel (I don't know why :) ).

Later, Jack

G'day Neil

I know nothing of those servo motors so will not display my ignorance by commenting on the first two questions.

I have home switches on the X and Y axis. "Photo Interrupters" which have the advantage of good accuracy and repeatability.

Also of very small size. This means I was able to mount them right under the table in a very protected position.

They both are fixed on to the respective ball nut mounts. Very protected from coolant and swarf.

Being one switch per axis is an advantage (less wiring and inputs) and tabs placed to activate them at each end of travel.

Below a couple of pics to help with description.

With the Vise all I will say is don't get the cheapest you can.

I think the bearings in the spindle are adequate, however I have read that the grease used is not the best and would benefit from being repacked with a quality bearing grease.

Greg

.

I used steppers (425 oz/in for x & y, 640 oz/in for z)
So I've seen that most people are using steppers around 425-500 oz/in on the X/Y axis, but is that continuous hold or peak torque? And either way, would you have a datasheet for your steppers, so that I could compare it to my Globe motors?

I got a 5 inch vise from enco for mine. It's kinda big (tall) even without the swivel base. I may buy the 4 inch vise later.
hmm decisions... You have me leaning towards buying another 4 inch. Sounds like it would be the most versatile. I'll always have CNC tooling plate and a step-block kit for the big stuff I guess.

I have home switches on the X and Y axis. "Photo Interrupters" which have the advantage of good accuracy and repeatability.

Also of very small size. This means I was able to mount them right under the table in a very protected position.

They both are fixed on to the respective ball nut mounts. Very protected from coolant and swarf.

Being one switch per axis is an advantage (less wiring and inputs) and tabs placed to activate them at each end of travel.
VERY nice setup :) I've heard with the right electronics (Omron signal amplifier), you can get repeatability of 0.0002" with those. I was always under the impression that they would get coolant and chips all over them, but it seems you've found a way around that. Looks like I'm going to be implementing the same setup. Thanks again for sharing the information.

With the Vise all I will say is don't get the cheapest you can.
I can't promise you I won't buy a cheap one ;) My first big job is to make some pillow blocks to mount an engine to my ultralight airplane, and a few thou won't make a difference. I plan to buy a decent vise eventually, but I won't be able to afford it for at least a year. I've spent enough on the mill and airplane parts in the last few months :rolleyes:


If you have any more pictures of your mill, please feel free to post them :D

If you have any more pictures of your mill, please feel free to post them :D
If you have some pictures of your airplane, feel free to post them. :D :D :D :D

Here's some links:

425 oz/in specs
http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H286-20-08B.pdf

425 torque curve
http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H286-20-8BT.pdf

640 oz/in specs
http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H280-45-8A.pdf

Enco precision milling machine vises
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=400&PARTPG=INLMK32
I got the 5" (425-7250) without the swivel base. The 4" vise (425-7240) may be my next vise buy.

Good luck, Jack

Here's some links:

425 oz/in specs
http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H286-20-08B.pdf

425 torque curve
http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H286-20-8BT.pdf

So, your X/Y steppers, with a 5mm-pitch ballscrew:

425 oz. in @ 0 RPM (continuous holding torque)
127 oz. in @ 300 RPM continous, = 60 inches-per-minute
42 oz. in @ 900 RPM continuous, = 180 inches-per-minute

My Globe motors with 2.8:1 timing belt reduction make 60 oz.in. at 1000 RPM so they may be ok. Torque also goes up the slower they turn. I'll probably crunch some more numbers tonight.

Oh yea, one other question... Can this mill do really fast feedrates for G00 rapid movements? If so, how fast?

Enco precision milling machine vises
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=400&PARTPG=INLMK32
I got the 5" (425-7250) without the swivel base. The 4" vise (425-7240) may be my next vise buy.
How has the accuracy been with your 5" vice?

Neil_J

My Super X3 factory CNC conversion 4 axis.
Standard steppers for factory conversion - someone will know what they are.

May rapids are 2500mm/min in X and Y
and 1450 in Z (cos I haven't fixed a resonance problem yet.)
A-Axis: I don't know how many degrees/minute. Haven't measure it.

For au$130 I boughjt a nice clamp kit in a red plastic hanging frame.
Takes up less space than a vice. I have a 4" tilt vice i use occasionally.

I visited Orlando 5 years ago. International Airport layout clear since google earth used to view it. Loved driving on the wrong side of the road.

May rapids are 2500mm/min in X and Y
and 1450 in Z (cos I haven't fixed a resonance problem yet.)
A-Axis: I don't know how many degrees/minute. Haven't measure it.
That's plenty fast for what I'm doing. In general, do you think the X3 made a good CNC conversion? How has the accuracy been?

I visited Orlando 5 years ago. International Airport layout clear since google earth used to view it. Loved driving on the wrong side of the road.
Hmm, next you'll be telling me we should be using the metric system :D bah! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I like it!

Factory conversion limits Z travel. Longer strut required and refixing.
I'm fixing mine now.

Accuracy within specifications or better with a bit of fine tuning.
Compatibility of BOB can be a problem on some PC's.

Spindle speed control from CNC is unserviceable IMHO. They got it wrong.
If you have no tool changer this just means simpler programs and you push your own start button and select your own speed.

About time you guys started making low cost light aircraft out of plastic.
Rivets are a thing of the past, but going too hi tech is hitting a golf ball with a sledge hammer.

About time you guys started making low cost light aircraft out of plastic.
Rivets are a thing of the past, but going too hi tech is hitting a golf ball with a sledge hammer.
Haha, my Ultralight's wings are made of plastic! (Dacron fabric to be exact). Got to love American ingenuity, right?

To pull this thread back on topic, I get my mill tomorrow :) It's about **** time too, I've been without one for too long.

Haha, my Ultralight's wings are made of plastic! (Dacron fabric to be exact). Got to love American ingenuity, right?

To pull this thread back on topic, I get my mill tomorrow :) It's about **** time too, I've been without one for too long.

Back in mid 70's I built and flew the third ultralight in Australia. 150 LB empty taildragger. 18 HP. Roof rack for transport. More fun than ANYTHING else.
Got a bigger writeup and pictures than the big birds at a big local airshow!
Middle page spread in the Melbournes main newspaper. Heh,Heh.
After teaching myself to fly at 40ft, I then got my license and a (not so?) real aircraft.

I have another set-up on my mill right now and unable to check all surfaces of the vise (4 jaw surfaces, etc.).

Last set-up I did with it... vice ways and solid jaw checked good (parallel and perpendicular).

Here's a couple of pics with it setting on mill table.

50888

50889

Here's a couple of pics with it setting on mill table.
Wow, that thing's huge. I'll probably go with the 4" Enco for now.

Back in mid 70's I built and flew the third ultralight in Australia. 150 LB empty taildragger. 18 HP. Roof rack for transport. More fun than ANYTHING else.
Got a bigger writeup and pictures than the big birds at a big local airshow!
Middle page spread in the Melbournes main newspaper. Heh,Heh.
After teaching myself to fly at 40ft, I then got my license and a (not so?) real aircraft.
Nice story :) Mine's not much bigger... Over in the States it's called a Weedhopper, but was called an AX3, Cyclone AX2000, Europa, Ladybird/Spectrum, Xair, etc.. The original built in the 1970's was 160 lbs, ~20 hp, folding wings.. These days people put the big engines in them and beef up the tubes to end up at ~250 lbs.

Nice story :) Mine's not much bigger... Over in the States it's called a Weedhopper, but was called an AX3, Cyclone AX2000, Europa, Ladybird/Spectrum, Xair, etc.. The original built in the 1970's was 160 lbs, ~20 hp, folding wings.. These days people put the big engines in them and beef up the tubes to end up at ~250 lbs.

Sugested thread. CNC made Ultralight Components.
This brings back memories!

Sugested thread. CNC made Ultralight Components.
This brings back memories!
Yep, great idea. I get to do some 4-axis CNC work as well, on the prop drive belt reduction pulleys. I'm taking a ton of pictures along the way... stay tuned :D

Yep, great idea. I get to do some 4-axis CNC work as well, on the prop drive belt reduction pulleys. I'm taking a ton of pictures along the way... stay tuned :D

CNC propellor carving/copying is easy these days! I've made 6 by hand.

How did you get the 3600 rpm?
Scott

Scott

Neil is not online at the moment so I will answer.

The Super X3 is straight belt drive so doubling the original speed is simply a matter of replacing the
pulley on the drive motor to one with twice the number of teeth.

Greg

The Super X3 is straight belt drive so doubling the original speed is simply a matter of replacing the
pulley on the drive motor to one with twice the number of teeth.

Greg
Ah, I didn't know that either.. I'll have to give that a try :)

I have another set-up on my mill right now and unable to check all surfaces of the vise (4 jaw surfaces, etc.).

Last set-up I did with it... vice ways and solid jaw checked good (parallel and perpendicular).

Here's a couple of pics with it setting on mill table.

50888

50889

That Pen Blank holder for boring the blanks is quite handy. I've turned a few pens for friends, it just fun making chips.

Smitty

Howdy Smitty,

I wondered if anybody was going to call me out for using my cnc for drilling pen blanks on it. This past week I've turned about 15 slimline pen tubes including my first try at a segmented pen blank. I got a Rikon mini wood lathe for a hobby while I was learning the cnc electronics. It's a lot more fun and rewarding then I thought it would be.

Sounds like we have similar hobbies..

Have a nice day,
Jack

Howdy Smitty,

I wondered if anybody was going to call me out for using my cnc for drilling pen blanks on it. This past week I've turned about 15 slimline pen tubes including my first try at a segmented pen blank. I got a Rikon mini wood lathe for a hobby while I was learning the cnc electronics. It's a lot more fun and rewarding then I thought it would be.

Sounds like we have similar hobbies..

Have a nice day,
Jack

yup, I have a Delta Mini, that's about all I had room for and now I don't have room for it. Woodcraft does pens for the troops for Christmas I'll be doing that next year.

Something just feels right when you watch a blank slowly take shape and than become a functional piece.

Smitty

OK, missed the "Super X3" in the signature. In the exact same boat so watching this closely.

I can't do crosswrds either.
What is a pen blank. Invisible ink involved?

I can't do crosswrds either.
What is a pen blank. Invisible ink involved?

A pen blank is a piece of wood around .75 by .75 by 5.0 (inches). They're used to turn on a wood lathe to make the outer cases of an ink pen or pencil set. You can buy the internals of the pen or pencil in kits for assembly after turning the blanks to size.

Later,
Jack

Edited post
P.S. Here's a link to some pics of some blanks and finished pens (scroll down).
www.arizonasilhouette.com