Hi Guys,
I am wonder the opinon of all you US guys.
My boss in the US is thinking of getting a cnc machine.
In Aus here we have an X3 we have converted and it work great.
But I am wondering what machines are in the US that are already cnced.
We are looking at the large Smithy CNC mill and use Mach3 etc.

What are the equals to this machine that is available?

Cheers
Rodney

Industrial Hobbies and the Tormach. I like the IH because I have yet to buy a full machine from them, yet what I have purchased is magnificently done and they have provided me with endless support. Tommy and Gene are also a hoot to talk to. I have an x3 right now myself, and if I did upgrade it would be to the IH mill. Its the biggest and heaviest of all the benchtop mills, uses servos, has the largest travels, optical limits, etc etc. It also doesnt cost any more than the tormach or the smithy and has better features as stated.

I would like to present another viewpoint. The IH milll will never be anything more than a CNC-converted manual square-column quill-head mill. The Tormach has been designed from the ground up for CNC and only CNC. http://www.tormach.com/document_library/Personal%20CNC%20Design_v1.pdf describes the Tormach design philosophy and features. It is worth reading.

The IH looks good for what it is. It might be faster than the Tormach, but speed is only one facet of CNC machining. I don't work for Tormach but I am a proud and happy owner. I have never had a machine accuracy or repeatability issue from using steppers (I'm a mechanical engineer for a biotech instrumentation company, and we make instruments over $200k that use steppers, in fact are converting former servo applications to use steppers due to the reliability of the latter...)

Best regards,

Randy

OT P.S. to pzzamakr1980: My son was born in 1980 and manages a pizza shop. :)

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to agree with Randy on the IH machines.
The X3 we have is really noisey because of the gearbox.
And I'd like to stay away from that.

I'm tossing up between the Tormach and the Smithy machines.

I'm leaning towards the smithy more because of the size.

Cheers
Rodney

Lol, right at this moment I'm getting rid of the spindle gear and drive gear and replacing them with a gear drive. I'm doing the conversion as described in that arceurotrade writeup but rather than make the timing pulleys I just purchased them from econobelt an will bore them out. I have switched the motor pulley and the head pulley so I can get about 6000 rpm out of the mill and at those speeds the gears howl. So I can definitely understand your point of view. From talking with Tommy and Gene at IH on this subject, they have done everything they can to minimize gear noise they state that its very quite, even at high speeds. Now I've never heard it so I can't verify their statements sooo..
As far as the Tormach goes, I like it too. I don't quite agree with the built from the ground up for cnc bit, but I do think that it is quite a nice machine. And judging from the videos that they produce it is really capable too. I've also read all the testimonials and seen the really great stuff produced on the Tormachs. In fact, I love going to the Tormach forum and looking at the "I made this with my Tormach." Any time I need some motivation to brave the cold or heat, I just look there and head right into the garage.
I just really like the IH because it does have larger travels, uses geckos and servos (I do not disagree that steppers are perfectly fine to use, I use them and they work great, but servos are better), has a vfd an 3hp motor available right from IH, and to judge by what I've purchased from them, the quality is second to none. It is also no more expensive than a Tormach or a Smithy and in my opinion, you get more.

Lol, the whole pizzamaker thing is a long story, long before I actually worked in a pizza place I had that nickname and email. But it did become really appropriate when I was making pizzas. Sadly, I've moved on and am concentrating on finishing my mech eng degree, so no more pizzas for right now. And I was born in 80 too.

Another vote for Tormach here. Its a very impressive machine for the money!

What about the backlash on the IH mills? The Tormach uses zero backlash ground ball screws.

David

I don't quite agree with the built from the ground up for cnc bit,

If you read the PDF I linked above, you will see that the Tormach is a purpose-designed machine. No quill, no handwheels, stiff construction for its working envelope, money put into critical components like P4-grade ballscrews, central lubrication as standard, etc.

And I haven't seen even one manual retrofit kit for a Tormach! :D

Best regards (and best of success with your degree!)

Randy

Hi,
The tormachs look great, but the smithy has a bit extra size to them.
I've desided I might go that way.
But I don't see a lot of people talking about them, well badly anyway.

pzzamakr1980 you said you like to see the "I made this with my Tormach"
forum for motivation. Do you have a link to that forum. I can't seem to find it.

Where does everybody recommend to get their parts from in the US.
eg. vices, tilting tables, milling bits, acessories?
Ebay?

Rodney

Rodney, my favorite place to buy tooling is Enco ( http://use-enco.com ) They have both cheap Asian stuff as well as "name-brand" tooling, all at good prices, and good carbide endmills are often on sale.

The Smithy machines look good. The linear bearings on the Z axis in particular should be very nice. If I were to do any mods to my Tormach, the first would be to counterbalance the head. Not from any actual shortcoming I've seen so far, but from general principle. I extensively modified my Sherline mill ( http://www.prototrains.com/mill/mill.html ) and on that small and flexible mill balancing the Z axis made a world of difference.

I would question the utility of the integrated CNC controller on the Smithy vs. a PC running Mach3 though. That to me seems a step backwards...

Best regards,

Randy

The Smithy control is a version of EMC. Hmmm, so is Mach3. I wouldn't call it a step backwards.

Hi Guys,
Thankyou for all your info. I have desided to go the smithy machine because of the cutting envelope.
I'm just waiting on a quote to come back.

Has anyone connected a Smithy to Mach3 before?
Is there anything else that I need other than a PC?

Cheers
Rodney

Hey bones, if you havent found the post yet, just look under the Tormach forum a few more forum headings down. Its currently the first thread and it's actually called "show your tormach parts :0". Also, because I check out the IH forum too, they have one very similar called "IH Mill Projects". I wish more people out there were willing to show what they make. I love looking through users photo gallery to see all the cool stuff.

PS There is a poster under the IH thread about an artist who does machined artwork, very very cool.

Disregard

Hi pzzamakr1980,
I'll check them out. Yeh there is heaps out there to drool over isn't there.
I like www.cnccookbook.com Some really nice stuff there.
Very inspiring site. One of the best on the web I think.

Bones

Yeah, I love Bobs site. I was very unhappy when he was busy and couldnt update it. I would check it like every day just to see if he did. But I agree, one of the best machining sites out there.

Yes it went a bit quiet there for a while. But soo much to see when I checked it last.

Well I have the ok to order the machine. So hoping Smithy gets back to me soon.
I've ordered Mach3, Vcarve and Cut3D for the software.
I just have to wait a few months to go and set it up.

I might have to get them to setup a web cam and a robot arm. lol.
The old CNC telepresence. CNCing from the other side of the world.

Bones

I was considering a CNC Masters Supra knee mill because of its much larger size and still right at around $10K. Any one have one and or know how they compare to IH and or Tormach?

JIM

The Smithy control is a version of EMC. Hmmm, so is Mach3. I wouldn't call it a step backwards.

Oops, my bad. I thought it was proprietary.

Best regards,

Randy

Still the smithy uses a 1.5 Ghz micro BGA processor to run linux.
Free software, all tho it is probably good software I'm sticking with Mach3.

I know it and if they have problem I can talk them though it.
Plus the capibilities of Mach3 are expanding every day.
There is a huge fan base with Mach3, easy to program using VB scrpt. etc.

bones

Hey thinwater, the cncmasters supra mill has the limitation of only having quill travel for its cnc'd z-axis. This was the major drawback of the knee mill because travel is only 4.5 inches. Also, it does use a proprietary software that has some fairly large drawbacks compared to mach3 or even emc. They were discussed in another thread, I believe under Benchtop Mills Forum or maybe the IH Forum. Someone had also mentioned that for a knee mill the steppers were a bit underpowered. They seem plenty powerful to me but I am not in any way and expert on that subject. Also, it is fairly difficult to setup a flood coolant system on a knee mill because of its design. I have seen a few setups on the site and they were all large and involved. There were a few other designs on the cnccookbook site but they limited the size of the part you could make. If you could handle these limitations and the larger footprint, than the knee mill seems pretty nice.

Thanks pzzamakr180. The software would be a major issue. I am no computer pro but I need to make what I need and buying one of these is a one shot deal due to the price. I can't afford to get the wrong one and not be able to run what I need.

I noticed on their ad they claim to be able to run any G code from any CAM system "As long as you get the proper post processor from the CAM company". I fear most software makers would not have such software for their little proprietary system and it would be of no value.

Thanks,

JIM

Haas is the best and simplest to use