I have just received my new HAAS TM-1P that is equipped with the Renishaw Wireless Probing and Wireless Tool Setting option.

The HAAS technician has not be here to do the startup yet.

In looking at the table the tool setter platform is mounted approximately 12 inches inward from the right end of the table. I have attached some photos for your review. Also note where the optical sensor is mounted on the back of the cabinet that communicates with the probe and tool setter.

One thing that came to my mind in looking at the position the tool setter is mounted is having “maximum use” of the table for mounting vises, plates for fixtures (in case they extend beyond the end of the vise) and still have adequate room for setting tools. I know you only have 30 inches of X travel, so maybe the tool setter is already mounted as close to the end of the table as possible and allow adequate movement of the table during tool setting operations. The cycle time is not that big of deal for me as I am not in high production mode.

I was wondering if the tool setter could be moved closer to the end of the table to make more room available for mounting vises, fixtures etc.

Anyone else out there have this option on the TM or other series HAAS machine, and if so I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on placement of the tool setter.

Thanks in advance for your help.

John

We have a 2007 VF-1 with the probe.

It's not wireless though. It came with the tool probe mounted perhaps 4-5" inset from the left side of the table, and maybe 3" from the back of the table?

I'd say wait till power-up, see how far you can move it out with your table at maximum travel in the x axis, and still have enough room to measure your largest tools.

You're going to love the probe. We haven't done anything fancy with ours using macros (just setting tools, and x,y,z on the part), but it's already an amazing time saver. The first time you need to set a bore as your zero, you'll love how much quicker it is than indicating.

I'd say on average I can set all my tools and work offsets for a given part in 2-5 minutes.

Hi Cory,

Thanks for taking the time to offer your valued input.

Yes, 4 to 5 inches sounds a lot better than 12 inches from the edge.

I'd say wait till power-up, see how far you can move it out with your table at maximum travel in the x axis, and still have enough room to measure your largest tools.

Question #1: When you set the tool height on a shell mill does the machine move the X or the Y axis to center the cutting inserts over the tool setting probe during the setting process?

Question #2: It is my understanding that you can probe the height of the tool and also check the diameter. Is that where you need the extra offset from the end of the table to make sure the tool setter can circle the tool and take measurements on all 4 sides? I think it looked at all 4 sides maybe just 3 sides? Guess I should have paid better attention during the demo.

I guess the issue I have is that I am new to CNC and as of yet don't have a lot of tooling and don't know what would be a good offset measurement from the end of the X travel to use. Keep in mind this is a TM-1P and I am not sure what the tooling size limits of the machine are at this time.

Thanks,

John

Question #1: When you set the tool height on a shell mill does the machine move the X or the Y axis to center the cutting inserts over the tool setting probe during the setting process?

Question #2: It is my understanding that you can probe the height of the tool and also check the diameter. Is that where you need the extra offset from the end of the table to make sure the tool setter can circle the tool and take measurements on all 4 sides? I think it looked at all 4 sides maybe just 3 sides? Guess I should have paid better attention during the demo.

1: When setting the height of a shell mill, you manually jog one of the inserts over the anvil of the toolsetter. The only movement the machine makes during this probing cycle is the Z axis. You cannot use the toolsetter to measure diameter on a shell mill for obvious reasons.

2: When measuring diameter, the machine moves in the Y axis. What it will do is come down, touch off on the top of the anvil to measure your Z offset, then offset itself in the negative Y direction by the rough diameter value you inputted, plus some safety factor (it may move to positive Y first... I don't remember). After it touches off on the first side, it then comes up to clear the toolsetter, moves to the positive Y direction, and does the same thing. It does not do it on both the X and Y axes.

You want to make sure you leave at least I'd say 1.5x the diameter of your largest tool you may use in space in the Y axis between the toolsetter and any vises/fixtures you may be using. On our VF-1, with two vises on the table, it'd be a tight fit to measure the OD of any cutter larger than ~1" due to how close the vise is to the presetter.

Hope this was what you were looking for. If you have any other questions about probing, fire away. I'm by no means an expert, but I'm pretty good with the basic probing cycles provided through quick code. I know there's a couple other Haas owners on here who use the probe extensively.

-Cory

On my '07 VF-2ss, the table probe is roughly 3" in from max X- travel, and it just kills me. With two vices on that little table, I run out of room quickly. I would ask the tech to fire up the machine, run the table to max X- travel, back it up maybe .125" and center the probe under the spindle right there. That's all you will need because like Cory said, diameter measurement is done in Y.

The tech will be indicating and calibrating your probes, so ask him to move the table probe before he does that and it should create very little additional work for him/her.

to messure the tool in diameter it requires 2 points ( Y+ and Y- when I remebmer right ) but for the calibration of the tool probe it requires 4 points X+ and X- to calculate the center of drop in X axis , so I don`t think you can move it out of X range. The calibration tool have about an inch diameter.

to messure the tool in diameter it requires 2 points ( Y+ and Y- when I remebmer right ) but for the calibration of the tool probe it requires 4 points X+ and X- to calculate the center of drop in X axis , so I don`t think you can move it out of X range. The calibration tool have about an inch diameter.

This is correct. I forgot about calibration.

The standard that came with our probe was more like 0.185", so you don't need that much travel to the side of it.

Hi Cory, Matt & pit202,

Thank you guys for your valued input.

It is nice to hear that only + and - Y movements are required to check for the diameter of tools when utilizing the tool setter.

That should mean that I only have to allow room for the appropriate tool setter calibration probe (depending on the diameter) to work during the setup process by the HAAS Tech.

I will ask him to move the probe a close to the end of the X travel as possible during the calibration process as I am going to mount (2) Kurt D688 6" vises on the table.

John

John, can you take a closer photo of that place where the Y axis cover gets out of mill ? I still fight with coolant leaking in that place. thanks.

Hi pit202,

John, can you take a closer photo of that place where the Y axis cover gets out of mill ? I still fight with coolant leaking in that place. thanks.

I am sorry but I don't understand what picture you would like. I haven't had my coffee yet, so I may not be totally awake.

I would be glad to take any pictures for you. Just need a little guidance. :)

John

:-) I had 4 coffees and this don`t help me writing better english either :)

Hi pit202,

Here are a couple pictures after coffee.

Let me know if this is what you wanted.

John:banana:

I did a little more research and downloaded the attached manual from the HAAS website.

In the manual they discuss the amount of room that is needed around the “Tool Probe” to ensure proper operation. On Page 15 they say that 2” of travel in all 4 directions is needed around the tool probe for calibration purposes. So 2 inches from the end of the maximum X travel is where it should be mounted to keep it as far away from chips and coolant as possible.

Thanks again for all the valued input.

John

It sounds as though everyone has slightly different expiriences with the probe locations. When we got our TM-1, the tool setter was set out about at the X-29ish position. we had the tech set it to the corect position according to the specs. then took a carbide scriber and marked the diam. outline of the tool setter so we could get it back to th right position on the tabel give or take a few thou. The training we got was quite in depth, and useful. But unfortunately we had to remove the probe setter shortly after the initial set up due to work piece requirements. As luck would have it, we have yet to get back to using the probe due to production schedule and work envelope needs.

Although a slight issue has come up inregards to with the ballscrew cover, we called the Haas dealer, and this caused us to enter into a side conversation about retraining and recalibration location of our probe since we looking at getting the 4th axis. We talked about getting a refresher about the probe and it costs about $2500. So take advantage of any time you with the Tech, it will be time well spent.


just a side note, about our issue....make sure to keep the ballscrew spring cover well lubed. if it dries out it will bind and shear itself off quite unpleasantly, to the tune of about $1700. But we have been running solidly for a few years and have found a great fondness for our mill as a solid worker.

CJH

Hi CJH,

Thanks for the tips on the tool setter. I intend on taking video during my setup day. Just in case this ole brain fails me. :)

As the machine still has all the shipping brackets on it and it is not to be turned on until the tech arrives it is hard to tell where the tool setter is in relationship to the X Axis maximun travel of 30 inches.

What type of lubricant do you use on the ball screw spring cover? I could see that if got too dry it may hang up and could break.

Can hardly wait until Tuesday when I this baby gets fired up.

John

Hi John, I asked the salesman who sold me my machine about the position of the toolsetter on the tm1 and he told me it is inset due to the 30 inches of travel on the machine. The table is obviously longer but there is 30 inches of travel

Mark

Hi Mark,

I understand what you are saying. I was hoping to be able to move it further toward the end of the table.

I just looked at the specification sheet on the machine. Table length is 47.75 minus the 30 inches of table travel equals 17.75 divided by 2 which gives you 8.875. If you add the 2 inches of X travel the Renishaw manual says that you need for calibration of the tool setter it comes to 10.875.

Right now it is mounted at about 12.00 inches in from the right end of the table. I may be able to move it a little bit but not much if these calculations are correct.

Guess I will know for sure on Tuesday.

Thanks for your valued input.

John

Thanks John, You have to be chomping at the bit to start running that mill

good luck

mark

I want to thank you all for this discussion; I don't have a probe and now I know I don't want one. I have Minis setup with two Kurt 6 inch vises which are spaced so the corners of the jaws are 1/4" inside the machine limits and VF2s setup with three Kurt double lock vises which also have the jaws just inside the machine limits. I simply don't have any place to put a probe.

Glad my input was helpful, a bit. As far as the lube for the spring cover, it all depends what we are machining. Generally for when we are using coolant to cut metal the grease we use is the same as what we lube the grease fitting with a good high quality lithium grease. We slick it up good and go to town on cutting. The thick grease last quite a while under the coolant conditions. When we switch to cutting dry for wood, mdf, foams etc. we generally wipe it clean and then spray WD-40, silicone lubricant or a dry teflon spray lube. We just got really busy and have forgotten to keep it lubed. It's definitely a good thing to wipe it off every so often and freshen things up so that chips aren't collecting on the grease. Also inpect it evry cuple of weeks for for dents or nick if there is the tendancy to have chunks of waste metal falling into the cavity between the weighs.

CJH

Hi Geof,

Discussion is a good thing. It can bring out information that is helpful to others.

I think the reason for mounting the probe near the outer right edge of the table is to keep the tool setter probe as clean as possible so that the tool probing process works correctly. I believe it can be mounted in other locations as long as the tool probe can receive the signals from the OMI unit which is typically located on the back wall of the cabinet. Depending on your table size, travel and what vises or fixtures you typically mount on it can surely be a deciding factor on the decision to purchase a tool probing system.

Hi CJH,

Thanks again for the additional information on the lubrication of the ball screw spring cover.

John

At work, we have a TM-2 with the wired tool presetter and a new VF-6 with the wireless one. In both cases, it has been suggested to drill and dowel the table for a custom designed presetter mount. That way, all the tools could be setup quickly but the presetter could be removed when the space is needed.

Yeah, it sacrifices some accuracy but if the mount were designed properly, it could be more repeatable than other 'conventional' touch-off methods.