.

I have the sh-cnc 6090 (600mm x 900mm). For the size and price, you can not beat it.

The only problem I have had was to replace x and y ball screws. The factory forgot to put grease fittings in the ball nuts. Needless to say after a few hours of operation, the ball bearings wore out. There was absolutely no problems with getting replacements. So, when your machine arrives, check the ball nuts for fittings and give it an extra shot of grease to be safe.

Overall I am very satisfied with the machine.

Brian

I'd get the ATC, if you still can. It's an automatic tool changer. There is no learning curve, it's automatic. :) Seriously, a simple setting in your CAM program is usually all that's required, and tool changes will be done automatically with no intervention required. Even if you write g-code by hand, tool changes are extremely simple.

If you make parts that require more than one tool, it will pay for itself very quickly.

i also am on the verge of a purchase and have narrowed it down to
one of five, i can really appreciate the amount of study involved and
how many varibles there are before a purchase. i do hope you will post your experience here for us. i have looked at shop bot and visited their factory,
had extensive conversations with dyna cnc, ezcnc.com,shop sabre and
techno. i have seen all thier dvds, looked at thier equipment they are all good machines and all within the same price range.

i have a fairly large custom cabinet shop and now see that i should have done this (purchase cnc) a long time ago. at present we are working out lease
arrangements as the tax man cometh!

whats really funny is i bought a carvewright and learned cnc in about 30 minutes after 20 years of fear over what cnc could do for me

cabnet
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

Our first machine was almost $150K, and we spent about a year looking at different machines and doing research. I also spent that year trying different software packages, and learning how the software process worked before we got the machine. That allowed us to get up and running almost immediately.

Gerry, stone the flamin crows mate! If we had to pay $150K to buy our first machine we would not stand a snowball`s chance in hell of getting one. You must have done your homework very well. Was this your first experience with cnc?


Yes, and we also bought a $100K saw and $15K in software at the same time. :)


I see that you joined the cnczone back in March of 2003. At that time was it possible to buy a software package along the lines of V Carve Pro for a realistic price? We were quoted $6000 to buy Enroute software (and i am sure that it is fantastic software ), but at around $500 for V Carve pro i cannot see the logic of paying for the more expensive software.


Vectric's software was the first of it's kind as far as I know. There were $500 packages that did V-carving only, but not that did everything V-carve does.

Software is very dependent on what kind of work you're doing. It's hard to go wrong with V-Carve pro, and it's very easy to use. But if you don't need the V-carving, you can probably do all you need with a $100 CAD program and something like SheetCAM.

We use specialized cabinet software which automatically generates all the code for our cabinet parts. But for all our custom work, I just do quick 2D cad drawings.

Our machine is model SHM1530A with 5ft x 10ft table, 3.5KW HSD spindle,
Becker vacuum pump and dust collector.

We decided against the auto tool changer . I am sure it would be a very
desirable option, but we are concerned that due to our inexperience in cnc it would just make our learning curve that much harder.

Total price of the Router was $ (USD) delivered to Adelaide, Australia in a sole use 20ft container. It should arrive before xmas, so we will spend our holidays getting acquainted with it.



l

.
This thread is about our first cnc router purchase for our small family business.

We are located in Australia and do not have the availability of many different brands that our friends in the USA can select from.

At this moment we have absolutely no experience in cnc. Our machine is due to arrive in Australia in mid December 2007 and it is our intention to provide an ongoing summary of our attempts to learn about the machine and how to operate it.

The cnc router that we have purchased is from a company located in China called sh-cnc The brand is Excitech.
The specifications are - SHM1530A Router Machine
Table size 5ft x 10ft ( 1500 x 3000 )
Spindle 3.5KW ( 4.7 HP ) HSD
Stepper Motors
Becker Vacuum Pump

If you read through this thread you will see that i had deleted a lot of my early posts. This was because a member had ( in my opinion ) tried to derail the thread by posting negative stories about our supplier. I figured that he was from the anti import crowd. His story in my opinion is preposterous, but as it has been pointed out to me that everybody is entitled to their own opinion, i am attempting to restore as many details as possible. Make up your own mind.

Rocket.

Brian - Thanks for the advice. Lubrication is obviously very important on cnc machines.
What type of grease do you use? How often do you grease your machine?
Are there any other routine maintenance procedures?

We will be routing MDF board and i have read that this type of material will send the router bits blunt fairly quickly. I guess that it will be important to keep a good supply of sharp bits handy. Where does one buy the bits and
what is the approximate cost of them?

I would expect that MDF dust will need to be kept to a minimum around the machine to protect the electrical components etc so we will hook up some pretty good dust extraction.

Any and all advice is welcome.

Rocket.

Rocket,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, a little under the weather. To answer your question, use standard lithium grease made for grease guns. I sqweeze some in every 15 - 20 hours of run time. Router bits are generally a personal choice, I tend to use a fairily high quality bit making cabinets in hardwood veneer. The more you can keep dust at a minimum, the better off you will be. Check with the company and see if they have a dust shoe for the spindle.

Hope this helps.

Brian

P.S. The ATC is definately a good choice.

G`day Kustom Koncepts, From all that i have read on this forum you cannot go wrong with a shop-sabre machine. They have an excellent reputation on the forum.

I should point out that sh-cnc Excitech machines are indeed available in the USA, they are sold world wide.
In the USA they are also sold by factorynew.com under the brand name cam-wood.

The simple reason that sh-cnc can sell their machines at such low prices is that they are manufactured in China, where wages are very low compared to western countries.

Rocket.

Yeah I know china is kinda the Hoes of the world, they run everyone out of business from outsourcing but god bless them they make stuff good but for cheap. I get the 1/64 scale Diecast racecars from ADC made in china and wrap them to look like local race legends. the detail is amazing and there is even plug wires a working stering wheel, soft fuel line and seat belts and even through a us distributor the are $32 ea. how can they cast all those parts and put it together ship over seas and the US dist makes money and so do I. That is how it goes I guess. With out china there would be a lot of things we use every day that would not be so affordable. I will check out that site though I am sold on shop sabre. thanks.

I went to that factorynew.com site but I guess that the Bloody greety american distributor figures that the same machine you have that you paid $16,000 is worth $29,000 in the usa.
Unless I am mistaken I went there and found the 5x10 with 3.5 spindle a t-slot table but it is no where near $16,000. Everything doubles when it crosses to the western hemisphere because Aparently us americans have twice as much money. You gota love a county that is allowing Illegal imagrants to draw social security though they never worked a day here.

its on ebay
Item number: 130173463389
cabnet

How le moly that is bigger and half of what I will have into a shop sabre. I this a servo or stepper cnc?

any one know why I can't look at what else he has sold. they are all blocked. I want to see if he has sold any other cnc machines. he has 116 positive feed backs but don't really trust e-bay.

i have asked them (via ebay) to call me but it was late in the day and i have yet to hear from them. i have been researching this level of cnc for a while.
i can say i am highly impressed with shop sabre and techno. as a cabinetmaker i am looking for the ability to have a slave drill z axis on board with the main z axis as we need to machine shelf pin holes then cut parts
i don't mind changing bits for carving. i gotta tell you shop bot has well figured
this out. digirout has a unit that has an extended x axis over the table and can put two z's next to each other. i am working to find the right machine
and i am sure that will happen soon. i will speak well of xfactory i have bought large equipment from them and was very satisfied with how thier process worked.

so lets do this heres my specs
5x 96 or 4x8 clear cutting area (my only true 5' material is 5x5 baltic and i can work around this.
fast, strong cut mdf and melamine at 6-8" per second plus
parts (steppers/servos) mostly non proprietary for easy replacement
gantry that can handle slave z axis in line (not side by side)
digitizer probe and related software
cad cam software

i can or will provide new laptop and vaccum and dust collection
(i got enough Dells)

what do you guys know that i havent seen yet.

cabnet

Ok Help me out here.

Item that is on ebay
Item number: 130173463389
posted by cabnet

is the salesman named Keith I got him to call me today but missed the call this was the guy that I contacted through ebay. He said he worked for Travel Marketing, right that sounds like a Holding company. has any one else bought from these guys? are parts and service easy to get, how about bits and other things that it will break? if this is a holding company how reliable and knolegable are they?

I am open to this guy and the sh-cnc because it looks like I can get way more for less machine for less than some of the us built machines.

but rocket67 you say that this item on ebay is not the sh-cnc that you have and got for 16k.

are these two different companies or different machines. I can't seem to get this straight. I will call this Keith tomorrow and hopfully get it straight.

it is my impression that the ebay model and the camwood are of the same
manufacturer, whether they are of the same specs remains to be seen.
also whether or not they are cousin to the shcnc/excitech i really am not
even remotely qualified to say

cabnet

I am kinda seeing it now. Yes I am very leary of the ebay outfit. they definatly sound like a middle man. They could be here today gone tomorrow. I went to sh-cnc and sent a e-mail. I just wonder how easy is it to get this machine into the US and how are parts to get? I will e-mail this taney also. I also am kinda nervious to buy a machine direct from china how safe is that also. I like the us companies because I could drive there andfind them if needed.

well I know that almost everything or atleast components all start in china in some way or another. I have sent a e-mail to this sh-cnc and I will see what they can do for me. I have only been looking for 2 months now and have changed my mind 20 times. I went from a Multicam, techno, shop bot, shop sabre, plasma route, tourchmate, ect. now I have just been turned around again by this fourm about these other china direct machines. I can say for what I was going to get with sabre a 3.5 hp spindle 4x8 table (no t-slot or wood top) servos dust skirt was pushing 24 thousand and I seem to be able to get that same or equal features for about $12,000. lets do the math it will take half as long and half as much to pay off 12k vs 24k. I hope to make contact with them tomorrow. I have the loan approved and all I just am starting to change my mind again.

I want to start a new thread to see who is using that e-bay machine.

i saw an article on the manufacturing of woodworking machines in fine woodworking magazine where it was found that basically all machines are built in a few plants and the quality is determined by the supplier in the us and what they require for specifications for thier respective customers.
it was found that all 15" planers with the exception of one in canada
where being proccessed at one plant and further provided photographs
of an assembly line where planers were shown in there respective marketing colors side by side.
we've known for many years that all vcrs were manufactured in just a few plants in tiawan. recently i provided the front desk and lobby display walls
for the China Construction Company here in the southeast and yes they are owned by the peoples republic of china. dude they are now here building your high schools. (Nice people to work for, paid well and extremely proffessional) and i can assure you that while operating in a democratic and capitalistic environment the are all owned by The Peoples Republic of China

after comparing the sh-cnc (excitech), camwood 1325 and the yet to be named ebay model we have seen in this thread. We are looking at extremely inbred cousins if not sisters and brothers.

that said, i am not afraid of the quality of any of them. like kustom concepts
i also have been down the road and am within a day of purchase. i have german edgebanders and italian saws, the germans demand such quality even at there public level that wal-mart has floundered there! personally my most basic requirement of a machine at this level is that i can get parts and fix it myself. i believe the chinese machines can fit that. with shopbot just two hours up the road and fitting all of my needs it is easy to see why i amd leaning that way.

rocket i am sure you have picked the right machine i look forward to seeing where you, kustom and i go with our machines keep this thread going

cabnet
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

well I did make contact with the e-bay outfit today. I did get to talk to this Keith at a (603) area code is for new hampshire.

everything seems good I got quoted for a dule drive 5x10 with 6HP spindle Vcarve, dust collection, freight, mach interface, starter bit set, 10 hp vacume table all for $14,911.00

it all sounds to good to be true. they say they are the engineers that designed it and it is assembled in china then shipped here.

now the web site is www.tribalmarketinggroup.com

but it is just a home page and all the links are dead on it. when I call the number it seems to ring to a cell phone.


all this for 15 thousand seems good and all but I am not sold on what is really going on here. something seems out of place. there isn't even a name for this machine.

this could even just be a home based business. when I went to sh-cnc I could see it was a real company with employees. I really want someone else to speak up here about this cnc but it seems there is just one person on here who has one. I have got pm's from a member who says this machine is ok but I am leary yet. later

yeah screw that e-bay guy all his stuff looks like a scam. there is only one person who has this machine and I would not be suprised to say it is the same guy that is trying to scam people of e-bay. I just go the price list form sh and will review it.

what size and options did you go for rocket67?

WOW I can't belive that the SHMS1224D bad boy is only $42,378 a machine like that if it was american made would be over $250,000.

I am going with the SHM1530A and the chinese vacume table and pump with dust collector, Mist cooling system and tool sensor. I figure all that will be about $18,000 and even if it takes $2,000 to get it here I am going to get a whole lot more machine for $4,000 LESS than a shop sabre outfit.

what do you think is the difference in the Becker vacum VS the chinese vacum other than $1,500 less for the chinese one?

actually the chinese is 140CBM vs beckers 129CBM



I know that fourms are very hard to guage when asking what is the best machine to buy. You get comflicted answers. Fourms are better for questions once you get the machine. If some one asked what the best Airbrush is I'd say Iwata and the best vinyl printers and plotters I'd say Roland because those are what I own so everyone on here likes what they have bought themselfs. I am very convinced that SH-cnc is a straight company just watch the video on the home page there must be 300 people working there. I still really like that SHMS1224D for $42,000 but it is only a 4x8 and I am starting to look at the 5x10 so i can cut aluminum race car tin .04 alum for race car panels for local builders.

To the ausies do you fallow the World of Outlaws sprint car races. I don't know if that is what they are called there but Donny Schatz, Natalie Sather and one other guy from Fargo, ND (my town) race that circit in the US summer than are in Australia now racing then they are back to the us to race the summer seris again. we also had a group of guys that were custom combiners that used to come here from Australia every summer to custom combine the mid west Wheat.

well talk to you later I want to know what size and options you two got on your excite cnc's
se ya

kustom and rocket you seem to be in contact with excitech.. How are you getting in touch with them? We have trouble with them and can't get any help?? Can you help?

I'm emailing Taney right now.

I have received e-mails back and forth from him.

but hold the phone I might be a idiot but What is the differenc between 1 phase 230v and 3 phase 230v power supplies?

These machines require 3 phase 230V the paint booth, aircompressor and welders that are 230V all say 1 phase on there labels. Can I even wire this 3 phase machine into my shop?????????????????

kustom

if you are going to use this unit at a home type shop chances are you will not have 3 phase this is not uncommon but not impossible. you can get a phase conveter that will take care of this ( see website )http://www.phaseconverter.com/
on the issue of vaccum pumps a vaccum table cost less than 450.00
and can be machined on your new machine plans are redily avalible for free
the pump is (8.5hp) is available at grainger for 2300.00 +/-
i have elected to build my own
the three phase is generally required because of the vaccum and spindle
a porter cable 3.25hp router without vaccum will only require single phase.
the downfall of this is it is loud!! when compared to a spindle.

cabnet

because of the great number of machines in use in the sc/nc area
there are private techs who know these machines
hiwin bearings GREAT!! servo motors GREAT!! and if nema 34 bases they are easily available and it is possibile that these machines are single phase right out of the box it is just a mater of configuration and electric bills, three phase
is generally not available in areas of high residential use it unneccessary

i bought a farm near a main highway and it is available i am having to put in a new service box for 3 ph and wiring to machines. it's the availibility of it thats the issue.

just the way i look at things

cabnet

sounds like tomhua_1@hotmail.com may be in the states

i emailed him this am and need to remember tha if he is west coast he will not
be out of bed for another couple of hours if china much longer

kustom see if you can find out where they are and if there are any east coast machines we can see

cabnet
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

k

Here is what Taney said about the wiring.


QUOTE>>>>>>>>


Dear Mr. Martin,

Thank you for your reply,
Now the machine's power has been confirmed that we will make a special machine with 220V single phase. I have confirmed with my factory and we will order a special Frequency Inverter 5.5Kw for you.

Pls give me your specific address and I will ask my forwarder to give you a detailed shipping cost. It may need 2 or 3 days.

Looking forward to your reply.
Best Regards
Taney

taney had emailed me before i even got to work this am

dude they can wire this the way you needed and i am so glad this came up

cabnet

if you are having trouble and i am getting quick emails

would you mind sharing some more of your experience with us

cabnet

Well I get the most response from taney late evning because they are opposite sides of the world. is is 11am here but 11pm there.

I really think I am getting somewhere with him in realizing that 1 and 3 phase are different. He apparently has not had someone challenge him on that before but he seems to be aware of it now and fixed the problem.

One member that has one of these says it is like 250V and the amperage is way off. I don't want a 2000lb paper weight. I asked him if it was true that this company used to be xhyd before the name change Excitech. I also asked if there was any machines in the USA from them that I can contact. to see how this thing will play out. He is working on a DOOR toDOOR shipping plan for I don't know how hard it is to find a us port and go get this thing.

Rocket67 how many wires do you have running into your electrical box Panel? I have 4 big ones. I may actually have 3 phase here I am still working on it.

k

HOLD THE FREAKING PHONE


is this not the exact machine even the red plat behind the spindel is the samt the picture is from the same angel.


god I love the internet you cna find anything. even the xyz specs are the exact same as the excitech. HELLO


http://www.motiontek.ca/R118.html

Yeah I am kinda stupid and when I am trying to figure out something especially, somthing so big and complex as figuring this what cnc to buy. I probubly think to fast and type too much if I slowed down and double checked stuff I would not have to hold the phone so much. JK like with the whole 3 phase fiasco when I do indead had 3 phase the whole time. what ever.

as far as this motion tek I think I did a searh for

on yahoo.com

3.5kw HSD spindel

this site was at the top of the list. I fell out of my chair when I saw that picture. I know that is the same thing. even when I convert th 1500mm x 3000mm it comes out to 59"x118" that is the specs of this machine. so now ho are they? are they a distributor for this machine? like some one else sad almost all machines are made in a hand full of factories and sold under diffferent names and colors. I have to admit that if these guys admit it is a SH and are about the same price. I am way more comfortable buying from a canadian company that is 5 hrs away on land than 20 hrs away in china. You have to understand that if it is the same It makes more cents to buy from a closer distibutor. I will run these guys through the grinder tomorrow and see what sticks. Later

I belive this is the HSD spindel that is in question on these cutters.
Taney said it was from italy and this company is from italy and called HSD. I bet they are more knolegable on this 3phase 1 phase 208/240/250 volt amperage song and dance we are trying to figure out. I may contact tehem to and I hop that carvin marvin is reading this and getting his machine wired up. contact these guys if this is the spindel you have, maybe they can helf figure out your voltage and amperage problems. later

http://www.hsd-hitec.com/eng/cont/elettromandrini.asp

more of my point here is once again the same machine without the side panels. All made somewhere sold differently.


http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/CNC-ROUTER-5x10-Auto-Tool-Changer-Vacuum-Table-Servo_W0QQitemZ160166808150QQihZ006QQcategoryZ57122QQcmdZViewItem

I know this says it is a excitech but look at the top of the page.

Shangding Fongder Imp. and Exp. co., ltd

the plot thickens I should have been a investigator. so here we go again who really makes this and where all can I buy it and get service on it?

I probubly don't matter these are all the same even the same color minus some decals and emblems. I hope I can get one through Toranto Canada but I will keep digging. the more I see this model on different sites kinda makes my more easy going that there are some of these out there.


http://fongder.en.alibaba.com/offerdetail/200999890/Sell_wood_working_router.html

Dun Dun Dun even more. I can do this all night. here we see the same machine AGAIN under the maxicam logo. What the ****.


seriously everyone do a google search for

3.5kw hsd spindel

that is where I am finding all of these seriously, try it.


http://www.maxicam.com.cn/1530.asp

isn't that an 1.5 HP Spindle? What good is that?

yes you can take the liquior from a horse thief. and after all you'll have is a sober horse thief. anyone met an irish traveller out of murphy villiage near agusta sc. they show up with aload of small diesel home generators, trash pumps and pressure washers. with cool logos that just about match the united power lable, tell you it was ordered and then the recepient died so instead of returning it you are going to get the deal of a lifetime. i came real close to paying abuot 6 grand for a bunch of low market goods that i could have bought at northern tool for 3 grand. man they had logos web sites warrantys invoice books and magnetic signs on the sides of thier trucks.
it was bizaare how i even got caught up in it. they left it, i said i'd consider
it fond the scam listed on net under irish travelors, called them said come pick it up, they barked rough, i said i was calling the sc attourney generals
office, (who has a task force on this in our state) they were thier in ten minutes bada bing bada boom

kustom, there is a woodworking show in atlanta in january
see http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/
and in greensboro nc febuary
see http://www.carolinaswoodexpo.com/gso/expopressdetails.cfm?ID=94

i personally visited shop bot in durham (call and let them knoe your comming)
it was the best move i made in all of this.

i have considered buuilding ny own machine i have found all of the sources for all of the extrusions, servo motors, gantry, z axis, mach 3 controller gecko
drives. and all near me. there is a fantastic source of rack and pinon, linear bearings and trucks motor mounts in rock hill sc
see http://www.cncrouterparts.com/parts.html
see http://www.8020.net/
see www.CandCNC.com

i trully believe i could overbuild the machine i really want and probably will
eventully (i did build my own verticle panel saw way back when when it was my only way to get it financially those were some fun days)
however my main guys in the shop are all against this as they feel the learning curve will be less by purchasing and i am holding out for shop bot
yes i do have a sizable shop and a little flexibility here i do hope this is informative as just writing this is confirming my own work on this

shop bot
16000 +/- with spindle i am getting a extra air drill so 18000. 5x8 table
works for me

cabnet

isn't that an 1.5 HP Spindle? What good is that?

3.5Kw = 4.7Hp

If anyone is getting rude or unwanted PM's, please forward them to me.

your gonna love this
i went to exibitor list for greensboro show and look what i found

http://www.camaster.com/portal/

and http://www.casstek.com/

and http://www.multicam.com/eng/index.html

is sold at http://www.pruittmachinery.com/
cabnet

check this i will peobably go and see these machines early next week if not then after thanksgiving

http://www.multicam.com/eng/Products/3000series.html
see video it does run
http://www.multicam.com/eng/Products/1000series.html

see private techs
http://www.reatechnologies.com/
so ok before i lose my entire saturday morning i'll move on with this

http://www.b2b-exchange.com/categories/cnc_routers.jsp?c=CNC%20Wood%20Router&id=1168509923289003027

and http://www.buyerzone.com/industrial/cnc_routers/printable_bg2.html#pg7
cabnet

.

man i want one of those machines

http://www.casstek.com/Gallery%20Graphics/hin2007.jpg

cabnet

.

thanks dude
i believe
1) you have bought a good machine
2) you are sincere on your motives
3) that all of this was brought to us (ALL) as a result of the theads and ideas
you introduced to us (ALL)
4) that the company http://www.pruittmachinery.com/ is well known
here in the southeast and would not represent this product if it had
major problems
5) that we all learned a lot here and to you i am grateful for all that has been exchanged here
6) here in the US and i am sure in other parts of the world we are hammered daily with recalled products containing lead

and the drug GHB a drug commonly known as (Moderator please delete this sentence if inappropiate) "date rape"

these products are entrenched in our stores and our imported food supply is as well dude this is our children we are talking about.

we are well loaded with excess textile and woodworking equipment as our former titans of industry have taken tax advantages sold the bulk of industry to the chinese.
and the small manufacturer left in the US is left to compete with wall mart
and to quote you "These companies are not happy that we have posted the factory direct prices on this forum"
i personally have no interest in thier pricing problems one way or the other
we here are in an open market free economy and if we have to buy their equipment in order to compete, so be it. after all the former titans of industry
have some real nice yachts in florida

i hope you see that i am grateful to you i was able to read your post this am
before the moderator got it, this thead has helped me and sent me searching for info i am not sure i would have found other wise

i am going to see the machine next week and if i were to buy i would not have
any problem paying a bit more as i am understanding of dealer support. my warranty for my cabinets is 5 years and as far as i am concerned once a customer always a customer. it is my experience that people who search
for the bottom find it and that ain't good

cabnet
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

I guess I don't know if I missed something here from rocket but cabnet said he got to read your post before the medorator got to it.

What ever that was I don't know.

I actually got to talk to a real live person today out of Georgia.

www.camaster.com

this is one found and yes it is the same excitech cutter but with a us reseller.

I can't belive I am still considering this chinese machine after all the stuff that has come about on this fourm. If this HERE company is REAL and I got a good read on him over the 45min phone talk. I still can get a 5x10 table, 4 hp spindel, vacume top with 5.5hp pump vectric software ect. All this for the same as another american made machine but the american made one has NO table top at all not even a t-slot, it's 4x8 and has no vacume top or pump.

some one talk me out of this... Please.

I just want to spend 25thousand and have the size and features that I think I need. I can't get all this for that price from anywhere else.

how about shop bot what sizes do they have?

are there any other machines that I can get all that size and features for 25k or so?

I'm even more torn and lost than ever before.

You know the only reason I all of a sudden want a 5x10 is so I can cut 4x10 sheets of .04 aluminum for a local racecar chassis builder and my friends race cars. if it wasn't for that I would be fine with a 4x8 but just want to not be limited in a machine.(nuts)

i am on the phone with josh right now

cabnet

Hi Kustom: I met Camaster last year at the IWF in Atlanta. I was looking for a low end machine and saw the motion system moving around. I was looking at a Techno across the floor, but was taken by the mass and rigidity of Camaster's machine vs Techno's. The price was around 7K less and that also included a 3hp spindle. It didn't have servos, but that didn't phase me. Bill was willing to put a laser head that I had already owned on the machine and make a 4x8 laser out of it for a reasonable total, so I went with him. Camaster is a small operation, but Bill is an honest and straightforward fellow, and I believe he will support you after the sale. The software he used, wincnc, has proven to be a good motion package, although I can only compare it with an 80's vintage Fanuc 11M. It runs circles around the 11M, but pentiums run circles around 286's. I also was considering Shop Sabre, but for my application they couldn't do much. I think it would be a safe bet to go with Camaster.
In full disclosure he asked me to post this, but I did it willingly because I want to help him out.

As a big contributor to this post I want to thank all that have posted here. we have learned a lot.

I do like and trust Josh from camaster. He even answered the phone on a saturday. I'm here on a saturday too so I like this guy alreay. (not like that)

what we have all learned that if you look at all your equipement or goods or clothing.
Even my FXR racing snowmobile jacket says made in china on the label.

almost everything is made in foreign countries it is the matter of the standards that importers require them to made the goods at.

A member who will remain disclosed found out there is a Camaster cnc 10 miles away from him. he is going to check it out sometime.

There is not dout in my mind anymore that this is the table and specs and price range of a machine I want and can afford and stay competative in my sign market.

I don't care if camaster is a smaller company heck Kustom Koncepts is ME. no employees no help but I wrap 70 racecars a year and do a annual $140k annually in sales. it is not the size that matters its the quality and service and if anyone is looking at this same router give Josh or Bill a call at www.camaster.com

I belive they are a honest good business that in my case is able to give me a quality machine with the options and service I need.

Hey Kustom

Go to www.warthogcnc.com and talk to those guys.. They'll tell you the whole story about Bill and Josh Glenn. (they used to be involved with warthog). It's an interesting story.. Warthog will sell you an american made router at a good price..

We are going to buy one of their machines.

G`day all. I have had some messages asking why i deleted my posts on this thread.
Firstly, let me say this - I believe that sh-cnc Excitech are a very articulate, professional and well run company who make excellent cnc machines at very low prices that small business owners can afford. I am proud to have ordered our machine and i can`t wait for it to arrive.

When i started this thread it was my intention to provide an ongoing evaluation of the machine and our inexperienced attempts to use it as we grapple with our learning curve. It could be quite comical to see us trying to master the machine. I still want to do this but it will now need to be in a slightly different format, perhaps the new blog section on this site.

Why did i delete my posts - There has been some skulduggery happening behind the scenes by a certain "new" member. This caused somebody to post a defamatory story on this thread - not intentionally but nevertheless it was posted. It has since been removed by the poster.
Last night i had one of my posts removed by a moderator because i abused this "new" person. This is not what this thread is supposed to be about. I came to the conclusion that the Anti-China element will continue to try to make posts full of false and deceitful statements and frankly the company that i bought the machine from do not deserve this.

Rocket.

Hey Kustom

Go to www.warthogcnc.com (http://www.warthogcnc.com) and talk to those guys.. They'll tell you the whole story about Bill and Josh Glenn. (they used to be involved with warthog). It's an interesting story.. Warthog will sell you an american made router at a good price..

We are going to buy one of their machines.

Wouldn't asking the competition usually result in an interesting story. The competition is trying to sell you their machine.

im appreciate the moderator and the patience he had practiced in all of this.
i participate in severak other forums on cabinetmaking ,finishing, business and now cnc machinery

personally i expect a lively, frank open and honest opportunity to exchange ideas and make informed decisions based on my own findings.

carvin marvin i think you posted that you had purchased one of these machines and were having trouble of some kind. i see now you are purchasing
a warthog which i have looked at and have not ruled it out. are you purchasing an additional machine or have you solved your problem with the chinese machine?.

rocket
i have been involved in the architectural woodwork trade for a while in my area. a while back i tried an idea for some products that we templated and carved by portable routers and hand. i have seen shops with multiple
machines and realize that in the way i think there will be multiple machines
in my future. i have always practiced redundancy on this i have all porter cable routers and bosch cordless drills (matching batterie systems!!) mulitiple unisaws with extra motors etc. sure i could out source (no fun)

1)i am looking for the machine that will give me the ability to do the work at hand

2)be resonably simple to operate and allow an operator an opportunity to earn a decent living beyond feeding his or her family.

3)i also see the cnc as a safer alternative to our methods ( i stuck my right thumb in a tablesaw twice last year )

4)the ability to replace parts and stay function with a minimum of downtime
every part it takes to build and operate a cnc machine is within an hour
of me.

5) our experience with the learning curve with the brandt edge bander
(German and bought brand new) all of the problems we were to have
with it happened at the outset (encoders failed in the first month)
the actual cost of the downtime and resulting issues woud have been
enough to buy us another machine CASH. my employees are absolutly
involved in this decision and are dictating that the machine be new.

6) i did not see the post that you refer to as defamitory to the chinese.
in your response on this thread you refered to some kind of private
message and i agreed with the moderators removal of you post
( i get hot headed or passionate too!!) but i feel your removal of all of
your post was not a good idea as it was good info and was an important
part of allof this exchange and thread sorta borders on censorship.


personally ( i believe the problems we have here in the states are our
own fault and greed) we have this great movement to shrink government
in our country. i thought this was a good idea. in the end this is done
at the expence of teachers, law enforcement and watchdog regulators
who might could have prevented some of these problems.

years ago when the oceans were much safer i sailed around the
mediterranian ocean on a beautiful schooner with apair of
australian brothers robert and oshmar scales if you see um tell em
i had agreat time

cabnet

cabnet, You hit the nail on the head in you third paragraph.

I absolutely agree that a frank, open and HONEST debate about machines is fantastic. Unfortunately, certain people with their own agenda have made a mockery of this process.

I will PM you word for word the garbage that was sent to KustomKoncepts
and i would caution the sender that this is a public forum and there may well be ramifications for him about it. He is not absolved of any legal issues.

This is my point - All that i wish to do is have a lively debate going. I am not for one minute asking anybody to buy from one country versus another. I am sure that as a patriotic citizen you would prefer to buy goods that are produced in your own country. So would i. But in my case to buy local would have cost more than i was willing to pay.

Good luck with your machine purchase. I have stated several times that i am envious of you blokes because you have such a large choice of machines to choose from.

Regards, Rocket.

I also agree with you all. asking any competitor, former employer or X business partner I have never got a good or happy story form them about the debocled friend ship.

We all start somewhere, I worked for a sign shop before I thought I could do better on my own. I did open my own but I did it in a different city 4 hours away from my previous employer. I still give him props on my website because without him I would not have been turned on to this whole sign thing in the first place.

I could call almost any CNC place and ask about another CNC place and they will indefinately bash them. It is competition all these machines do is run a program of xyz figures. there is not any real technology here. they are all about the same size, color, speed and features. It is all based on the size features and at what price we small shops can afford.

This whole thing about the chinese machines that was brought to us by rocket has really goten blown out of porportion. almost all the components on most of these american machines (correct me if I am wrong) mainly the spindels and electronic componets. probubly are made in foreign counrties anyways.

rocket I appreciate you starting this thread but now we have learned that there are distributors for this same machine here in the states and canida. I would not have even found about this untill you got us thinking about it.

other members on here seem to be VERY bitter about the whole excitech xhyd maxicam thing and he has sent some bad pm's to us. It may be true it may be not true. We are mostly good christians here but we are not perfect and you could find dirt on almost all of us.

I just want a machine that fits my requirements, at the price a small shop can abtain.

there has to be 200 cnc places out there and yes we try to find the best one when all along they are all the best some have just been around longer, spent more time developing and making there machine a little different. Some just have more money backing them to make them selfs look bigger and important. So for that reason alone we pay more for there machine because they look like big timers.

I am seeing this in my own town. I am one a guy shop., a bigger sign shop has 6 locations and 60 plus employees 102" printers, boom lifts, engeneers, ect.

Can they design a logo or sign better? No actually I put more creativity into mine and personal touches but I do 10 big signs a year they have to do 300 a year. and they can get the sign done in a fraction of the time I can but they have the work force to do so and they have to to make the bills.

so does that make me a pidley nobody? am I less of a person because I don't have a huge shop and employees?

I kinda despise those big rich business aho## owners , driving around in there hummers and feraris and million dollar houses and they do nothing anymore. just get up and look at their bank account rise and there min wage employees who can't even feed there family.

I think I am going to stop posting here and keep in touch with a certain member and do more covert searching until I have a machine sitting here. then we can talk about tips and trick with A cnc vs the trying to find the best cnc.

this chinese machine if you want to get technical when compared to one of the top cnc US machines actually falls short as far as specs.

another US machine I looked at was offering

3 hp spindel

4x8

No Vac table

travel speed 600

max cut speed 450


the chinese machine

4 hp Liquid cooled spindel

5x10

5.5 HP vacume table

trans speed 1250

max cut 787

all this difference for around $12,000 less

so If you want less for more

I kinda like more for less I don't know about you.

Every one Make your own evaluations and decissions I really is up to each shop owner to decide what he is really getting into.

later

kustom

KustomKoncepts, You have just sent me a PM to say that carvin is still sending you his bull.

You need to send all of his drivel to ger21

Please do so immediately.

i'll be back soon

Ger21, (who is one of moderators here, asked that I make my post public..)

I sent a private message to Kustom as I didnt think our back and forth dialog should take up space on the public forum.. the mods have asked me to take it here and I have no problem with that.

I purchased one of these "excitech" routers. more than three months later I received the router, or what should have been the router. It does not work AT ALL.. I am not a cnc newbie and I have had several other techs look at it. "excitech" has been no help at all.. They will not return any emails or phone calls.. I did a yahoo search to see if others had trouble with them and found this forum..

I saw that Kustom was considering one so I let him know my experience with them.. I did so via a private message. Also while searching In the past days days I have found out a few other things..

By tracking my freight documents I was able to get in touch with the trade rep in China the other day. They have an affiliate office here in the Sates as well. the company in question, XHYC is also now calling themselves Excitetech, among the other names Jinhan, SHCNC and more (as Kustom discovered they are using many different names and posted some of them here) I was told that they haved changed their name several times due to many tech problems. US Customs actually stopped allowing shipments from XHY because of all the scam complaints. I was also told the depatment of justice has a file open on them and two "resellers" one here and one in Canada.

Another thing I learned is where it gets real interesting.. The latest name "excitech" is actualy a company called Jinhan something but get this, the owners of Jinhan are none other than an Austrailain firm who partnered with a chinese guy name Maxry who is a partner of XHYc!. together they formed a new chinese business named excitech and put up a fancy website. The routers though are XHY.

When I first saw these posts I thought there was something very weird about how much that Rocket guy (who says he is from Australia), is pushing excite. My conclusion was he must works for the austrailian firm..

Why else would anybody push a machine some much when he claims to have not even received it?

When I sent Rocket a Private message to ask him about all the posts he made trying so hard to sell people the excitech, he immediately went and removed the posts he made! (see this thread)

Unlike Rocket I can provide pictures of the router or what is supposed to be a router. Despite saying otherwise the electrical is non compliant with any US set up.. The Machines are not UL APPROVED AND as such are ILLEGAL to sell in the U.S.!! The gears on the router are made from PLASTIC! yes plastic gears!! There is no leveling system, the steel they use for the frame is soo thin that it will collapse is you put any weight on it.. I can't figure out how they were able to weld the joints with out melting the thin steel.. until I touched the welds and they actually crumbled into dust.

The router arrives with layers of rust on it. The software is an illegal version. The "spindle" is actually 2HP and the "liquid cooled system" they claim is nothing more than a fish tank pump that you are expected to put in a bucket of water.. And get this the little pump is 220v!!! The manual they send with pin diagrams etc are for an entirely different router, which I found on another chinese foctories website.. They cut and pasted it even though it is not even for their router.

I can go on about the nightmare this Excite router has been to our life.. We are out the money we sent and now have a big paperweight taking up space in our shop..

Rocket if you want one so bad I'm telling you right here in a public forum. I will sell you our excitech for 1/4 of the price.. if you want to take me up on the offer let me know.

As for you Kustom, I have shared my experience with you about this router. What you get is your option.. I have not pushed any system on you or tried to sell you any system.. I have nothing to gain here other than helping another small business guy out.. I hope to save you the trouble I am going though.

Best of luck.

Oh dear!!!!!
I missed the posts over the weekend and now they deleted!,
So Carvin, your saying that the CNC router Ive ordered has plastic gears?!
Im feeling kinda sick. Ive purchased this for home use!!
BClark6716 please tell me your excitech SHG0609 router doesnt have plastic gears!!
I dunno who to believe anymore - I guess my own eyes when/if I recieve
the router.
Thanks for the luck carvin, I think im gonna need it!!

Wow, carvin has had a terrible experience compared to my dealings with excitech (haven't got my machine yet though) and others in Australia that have bought them that I've spoken to.. that's a bit worrying.

How long ago did you purchase the machine carvin?

It's always healthy to be sceptical of people who seem to be pushing some products too hard, but I think you've missed the mark in accusing rocket.

i ve messaged bclark6716
hope fully he'll tell us about his machine

cabnet

Gentlemen,

I have few posts here so risk being veiwed with little credability also. I doubt Rocket is an associate of exitech as he sought detail of my experience in assisting with his decision to purchase.

I found CNC Zone in search of info concerning China Sourced CNC product.

On reading the experience of others, principally Scott I made the plunge and ordered an Exitech Machine.

Dealings were smooth and my Exitec Machine arrived as promised and is working without issue (my only problem concerned damage in transit to the control cabinet which for all I know may have occured on the docks in Australia).

From what I can tell the Spindle is HSD (Italy), the VAC pump is like any other German Becker I have seen and the table appears solid (certainly flat within .2mm over the 2400mm bed length). The weight gauge on the fork that lifted the crate on the truck would suggest the RHS wall thickness is fairly heavy (welds arent as pretty as I have seen but certainly sound).

If anyone would like please let me know particular areas of interest and I will happily post detailed photo's of the machine.

Regards

Jimmy

i was just reading your post in the otherthread

i for one hope you' post photos of machine in your shop

what type of work do you use it for how long have you had it ?

does it use nema 34 motors ?

may have more questions

welcome and stay with this if possible

cabnet

here they are http://sh-cnc.en.alibaba.com/

Cabnet,

Not sure if NEMA- how do I tell? I know they are steppers but there don't appear to be an markings on the motors themselves.

Any particular photo's you want (close ups)?

Machine is principally employed in routing MDF and PLY for prototyping custom loudspeaker components and manufacture of accoustic panels and furniture for pro audio and high end home theatre instalations. Probably considered as fairly light duty as only rout around 200 8*4 sheets /month at present.

Regards

Jimmy

Hi all,
Carvinmarvin, sorry to hear your experience to be so shocking. I also have an exitech machine xhs6090 that i bought almost a year ago now (that has boosted our business further than expected), and i have had NO problems with it, no rust, no shonky chassis and as far as i know, no plastic gears. As for the software i have the type 3 software with a type3 dongle, so i can't see how it is illegal (the dongle has "type 3" cast into the plastic) the leveling system on mine is at the bottom of the chassis and it works just fine. I didn't actually know that it was an australian firm that owns this business. If that was the case i wonder why the business would be called jinan singhui (doesn't sound very aussie to me) plus i couldn't find any info for these machines in australia before i bought mine (wouldn't the "supposed" australian company be trying to sell them here on his own home turf?) Does this "Maxry" actually have a last name?

You also mention that your "conclusion" is that rocket works for this company. Get your facts right before you slag off at other people. Read this thread http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26588 he was also dubious about purchasing from china. My experience with exitech has been nothing but world standard. They are more helpful than most australian companies and other countries that i won't mention. (don't even think of accusing me of working for them)

On another tangent (not directed at you carvinmarvin) people should stop critisizing the chinese for exporting their equipment to the world, i think it's just another form of racism. Americans export to other countries so do great britain (what makes them so great anyway) japan, south america, italy germany, australia etc. Every country has their little go at being the world leaders in export, but unfortunatly for some of our countries, we just can't get it right (unlike the chinese at the moment). So just pick the right product at the right price (who cares what part of the world it came from) It's obviously better to keep the money in your own country but if you can get a similar product for a quarter of the price elsewhere...... DO IT!!! Rant over.

Anyway i'm sure others around the world have bought from exitech and everybody would love to hear your experiences (good or bad) But get your facts right before you start slandering people.

Scott

photos of machine entire from maybe a right and left perspective
the gantry
y axis rack and pinon or drive system
x axis truck and motors rails etc
do you have tool changer
vaccum

all of this is appreciated
i'll get you a nema 34 boly pattern spec
this is so if we have to replace motors

http://www.zaber.com/images/db_product_drawings/dimensions_nm34.gif

cabnet

check this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwZyWOR4IM

cabnet

When I first saw these posts I thought there was something very weird about how much that Rocket guy (who says he is from Australia), is pushing excite. My conclusion was he must works for the austrailian firm..


Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Rocket joined this site a few weeks ago asking for opinions as he was interested in purchasing this machine for his woodworking business. He got favorable responses from several Australians who said that they owned these machines. This led him to decide to purchase this machine, and he started this thread to let everyone know about his purchase experience. I never saw anything he posted that would lead me to believe he was anything other than someone interested in purchasing a machine. And I've read all the posts he's made.

If you have comments to make about your purchase, that's fine. But no more accusations and name calling.

Thanks Scott and Jimmy for posting. Those are definitely the responses we all like to hear :)

Scott and Jimmy, Thank you for posting your replies. This thread really needed some Excitech owners to step up to the plate.
I will be one myself in about three weeks. Howzat says that he will have his over the next two weeks.

The funny thing to me is that right now i would not have a clue about how to use it.

A lot has been written about the power supply to the machines. Are your machines single or 3 phase?

What about computer requirements? We are about to purchase one for our machine. Any suggestions?

Regards, Rocket.

Hi rocket,
Happy to help, Mine's single phase but it's only a little machine (600 x 900 bed) as for a computer, (unless you are using it to program the machine) go get a $100 one from the markets, because all it's there for is to transfer files to the controller, but if you're programming look at $1500 at least for a decent one.

It would be great to have local support for these machines but for the price you can't expect a diamond, can you? Just keep posting questions here and anyone that's trawling the net will hopefully find this thread to help them as well.

By the way, to add to carvinmarvins post again. he mentioned he had several techies look at the machine and they couldn't figure out what was wrong with it......... Jeez i hope he didn't pay them (they were qualified weren't they, that is their job isn't it?) why didn't they suggest building a new controller? correct me if i'm wrong but i think you can build a controller for less than $500 US. You've got a perfectly good motion system there, steppers, ball screws, rails, fully wired, spindle (plastic gears?) chassis (albeit a little rusty with dodgy welds). I'll take it at 1/4 the price. I've always thought that if my controller goes, i've got suppliers sitting there in my internet favorites ready to go for a complete new one. Anyway someone should buy that machine before he changes his mind (rusty or not, how much rust will something contract in three months?) and weld some feet on with some nuts and pop a few bolts in there. SHAZAM! you have a leveling system and a perfectly good starting point for a money making machine!

So marvin, step up to the plate and show everybody the pictures of your rusty machine (layers of rust?) and put us all to shame(flame2). After all you wanted rocket to post his pictures, but why don't we just wait till rocket actually gets his machine so he can take some photos.

Scott

Rocket,

Your machine will definately be 3phase.

Nameplate's on machine, VAC pump and Dust extraction motor all say 380 Volt 3ph but they should be fine on 415v.

You may be suprised (I was) at what size 3 pole breaker you end up needing. I thought my machine was DOA as it tripped the breaker every time I turned it on untill I put a motor rated breaker in the board. I suspect the culprit to be the delta inverter that feeds the spindle. My spindle is 6kw (8,2hp).

Computer will depend on what software you end up running. The supplied software (type3 & wentai) is pretty basic and wouldn't benefit greatly from a high end computer. The supplied software should handle just about any 2 or 2.5D routing job you can think of and will accept DXF files.

I thought I would take a month before I got anything useful done with my machine but it was really a LOT easier than expected to get going (once you get used to the sound).

Scott, We have recently purchased the new 10.2 megapixel sony alpha digital slr camera. It takes great photos and i will be taking plenty of photos of the machine and i will post them for all to see.

We will be using the computer for programming the different designs that we use. We have already purchased V Carve pro and hope to use it in addition to the Type3 and Wentai, so we will buy a decent computer.
Grays online auctions quite often sell brand new hewlett packards at very low prices. We picked up two 3.0 GIG computers for only $720 each only a couple of months ago. Check out their site if you ever need one.

As far as machine servicing goes - I will try to find a local tech to help us out. We have some pretty good, technically savvy people who work for us
and sh-cnc only an Email or phone call away so i think we will be o.k.

I for one would not touch the "new" members machine with a barge pole.
I doubt that it actually exists.

Jimmy, We fortunately do have 3 phase in our factories and i will contact our electrician and have him fit a " breaker" to suit. Ours is a 3.5KW spindle.

I have told my staff to expect a 3 month learning curve before we gain sufficient experience to rout commercially acceptable panels. I hope to actually do it a whole lot quicker - i am just covering my backside so that i don`t look like a complete ass in front of our workers if it does take 3 months.

As far as the noise goes, is it the spimdle or the vacuum pump that makes all of the noise?

Regards, Rocket

Rocket- you will be routing like a champion within a couple of days tops. Get your son to start drawing your jobs in CAD, save as DXF files and you will be amazed how easy it is to import into type3 and generate G-code. You should be able to have some jobs saved to a USB drive prior to the machine arriving so could be doing your first cuts before the electrician leaves ;-p


The Vac pump is tolerable- most of the noise comes from the the spindle (appears to be the top mounted cooling fan). I havent measured the SPL but it is VERY loud!

Those were truly inspiring words Jimmy. You have filled me with confidence.

You have also picked up on the fact that i am hopeless on the computer.
My son is already coming to terms with the V Carve Pro, and i am lost on the Wentai book - even with the illustrations.

I do not mind a bit about the noise. It might cut down that bloody awful "Doof Doof" noise that the factory boys have on the radio all day. Finally i can get even with them!

Rocket.

photographs

cabnet

carvin too!!

"just be who you say you are"

i have been invited to see the machine in a shop here in the southeastern us


i will go there today and i was given a good review by the owner

he is a well known local cabinetmaker and well respected here

i'll let you know

cabnet

Hi, I purchased a Camaster CNC for my shop in October 2006. I got a 4' X 8' table and upgraded to a 5hp spindle and a vaccum table. I have been well satisfied with my machine. Last month, Bill came back and installed a second head on my machine so I can now line bore. My friend down the street has a Shopbot in his shop. He was in my shop last week and commented on how heavy duty my machine was. It is a solid machine. Well built by the Chinese and modified to my specific needs by Bill Glenn. Over the past year I have come to know Bill very well. He is a good man who is concerned that you get what you need to do the job in your shop. He is a hard worker and a straight shooter. In my experience, 32 years in the cabinet business, there aren't a lot of those type people left. Especially in this industry! His son Josh is also a good guy. When we added the boring head, Josh modified the code for Win CNC so that my machine would process these operations automatically. He also worked with my software provider, Frank Jiminez of Cabinet Pro CNC, to write a post so my software would communicate properly with Win CNC. Overall, I am extremely pleased with my machine, my software, Bill, Josh, and Frank. We're a team! That's really important to remember because you're going to be working with these people a lot. These are also very patient people. They had to be to get me this far !!!:)

I think what we are learning here is there are a lot of chinese factories, different names, distributors and specs. These all look similar to me but have some different parts and configurations that this machine seems to have be made. the real question is what is the best way.

Carvin you did get a lemon and I understand that was the xyhd model but they have obviously made quality control improvements because of that model. I would not be able to say that these are good machines unless I could see and feel these machines for myself.

Now a more technical question. I guess when I started looking on this site I was under the impression that servos were better than steppers and anti backlash ball screws where better than rack and pinions.

what are the better ways?

I'm not trying to start a whole new fight here. it seems servo's are the better and It seems on the more expensive cnc's that rack and pinion on xy and ball screw on z verticle seem to be the standard. Is this the general consecus of you all here?

I don't want plastic gears I don't want a screamin motor or I would buy a standard router attachement. it was my understanding spindels were quite quiet.

i am sorry to say that i have been to see the machine
and now i 've got to do some work within my business
however as soon as i can i will sit and post a lot more
about the machine

somthing to expect
!!! the machine was extremly well built!!!
!!! the owner was extremly happy with the provider www.camaster.com
!!! i saw the machine operate and was so involved i forgot to put the camera card in the camera so i am going back to get some photo's

cabnet
carvin is the machine still for sale?

Hi rocket,
I'd say if you have purchased vcarve, you won't have any need for type 3 or the dreaded wentai software.

I agree with Jimmy, give it a few days and you'll be a pro. Just keep your finger on that stop button when you first start your program and don't put finger clamps in the cutting path :)

G`day Scott, Yes i will be sure to stand well away when we start it.

Before we ordered the machine i sent an Email to Vectric asking about suitability of V Carve Pro for this machine. Tony Mac himself replied and answered all of my questions. So we purchased the software and we think it is going to make our work first rate. Vectric also have a forum about the software and so i will join that as well. If i run into any difficulties i am sure that the people on the forum will point me in the right direction.

Rocket

No, i mean "finger clamps" they are the little hold down clamps that will come with it. Yes vectric seem to have a very good product and fantastic support. Good to see

photos from camden sc shop for camaster

these came fromthe owner i'll go back and get some broader shots and more closeup
this machine is what they say it is
cabnet

they have come back and added a drill for shelf pin holes and plywood caver for dust collection

I understand that v carve, cut 3d, bobcad, rhino, ect are design and tool path programs.

but what or how does a guy actually send the cut info to the machine?

what program does that? isn't there a preview file that you can see what the machine is doing and them it tells you what tool to put in next then hit button to do the next comand? It I would just see someone do this once I would understand it.

Nice pics cabnet.

Will attempt to get some shots of my machine (exitec) this evening or tomorrow am from same angles.

At the risk of being flamed for a dumb question- how do I post photo's? Are there size limits- that is should I reduce to a particular size before posting?

From what I can see there are substantial similarities between the camwood and exitec, almost like cousins.

How loud is the spindle on that machine? I would think with the water cooling that it would be fairly quiet- I am convinced that it is the top mounted cooling fan on mine that sounds like a jet aeroplane on reverse thrust :-P.

look at manage attachment below keep photo to 250-500 kb in size
I think

dude that machine was quiet we were carrying a conversation at three
feet away with out raising our voices
cabnet

Cabinet, I got a better offer for mine!!

The trade rep in China gave me the name of another company here in the US who is importing the same routers as Cammaster, he's selling them for about $5000 less than camaster and has sold more of them.. He's actually going to take mine and swap it for a new one!!

He said he'll worry about dealing with the factory.. I just have to pay for the crate and shipping!! I'll be crating mine up tomorrow!!

Cheers,

Jimmy

Nice pics Jimmy, thanks!

Sensational photos Jimmy.

If anybody doubts the quality of these machines after looking at the photos -

TELL EM THEY`RE DREAMIN !!!!!!!

Cabinet, I got a better offer for mine!!

The trade rep in China gave me the name of another company here in the US who is importing the same routers as Cammaster, he's selling them for about $5000 less than camaster and has sold more of them.. He's actually going to take mine and swap it for a new one!!

He said he'll worry about dealing with the factory.. I just have to pay for the crate and shipping!! I'll be crating mine up tomorrow!!
Hey Carvin, that's great news! I hope your new one is better than the one that you have. Do us all a favour though, and send in the pictures you have (or can take before you crate it), not only to back up the legitimacy of your claim but to ensure that everybody knows what to ask in quality assurance from their suppliers in the future. I'd certainly like to see them before i buy my next one! :)

Cheers
Scott

I understand that v carve, cut 3d, bobcad, rhino, ect are design and tool path programs.

but what or how does a guy actually send the cut info to the machine?

what program does that? isn't there a preview file that you can see what the machine is doing and them it tells you what tool to put in next then hit button to do the next comand? It I would just see someone do this once I would understand it.

Hi Kustom,
It's through a program bundled with the machine ( ZHBDSPhandheldhost as it's called as a file or signtek as it's called in the program:confused:)and yes it gives you a preview, It doesn't tell you what tool to put in next though, (somebody correct me if i'm wrong) I have each tool as a separate program and name the file with the tool size as part of the filename I.E. areaclear_2mm30deg.u00 so for engraving it's "area clearance with a 2mm 30 degree tip" or i'll have prof_ 2mmEM.u00 and thats profile cutting with a 2mm endmill. Hope this helps. By the way, has anybody tried mach3 with the chinese controller?

Nice pics too jimmy. Is that your garage or basement? I would completely embarrass myself if i showed photos of my shed.

Scott

yea man am i glad for you in business i also have done what it too

just doin the math

you paid 20,000.00
new dealer will trade you out for new machine at 5000.00 less
so am i to understand he's going to give you 5000.00 cash and a newmachine

thats impressive if so stay in here i also am hoping for photos of your machine as after my visit to the shop in camden sc usa
i am of great faith in the product

i also would like to point out that a lot of this thread was not always about
the money but what you got for it.

how about this get the new one (MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA!!!) photo them both next to each other for your own benifit "good teaching tool"

i still want to see the machine you have now?? you can attach photos by using the atachment management at the bottom of your reply screen

oh yea and how much did you say the camaster was lets see some invoices

old machine, new machine bill of lading paper trail you told us about.

you have been a major part of how the direction of this thread went and the exchange of info is invaluable



cabnet

a shop is a shop, i started out renting a small unit in a storage warehouse
poped the breaker on the light fixture i butchered into an outlet.

moved to a bigger rental eventually bought a old building with a leaking roof

never let it stop me from doing what i needed to do

lets see them machines and shops i personally have no room to laugh or judge

cabnet

oh yea the work www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

G`day cabnet, You did an excellent job in going to keithG`s shop and checking out his machine. This has got to be the best way to select a machine. That has taken all of the guesswork out of it for you. I hope that Kustom does the same thing.

It was an excellent post by keithG. I have read it several times and i conclude that he is an impressive fellow and he has a very fortunate
situation with Bill and Josh and Frank.

Thanks for posting the photos. It makes things so much easier when we can all see what we are talking about.

Regards, Rocket.

Esmae I'm sure i have the 'ZHBDSPhandheldhost' program somewhere also, never loaded it. What does it do?

First Gcodes I ran were generated in Type3 and saved straight to the USB stick to run from the hand controller. Like you I generated different progs with file names as a tool change solution.

Not a garage or basement- stairs lead to a clean room upstairs where I do electronics assembly but its never clean cos I leave the door open so I can hear what the machine is up to ;-p

What lube are you using?

I found machine gun oil is the only thing i have found to date that sticks to the guides.

I have recently discovered that I have a dealer or reseller for these chinese machines and shop sabre both in driving distance of me. I want to take the 14 hr round trip some day soon and see both of these machines first hand.

we've discovered here that the chinese machine are good but I fear the no name parts on them and how to get them fixed or serviced.

If these resellers disapear or change names agian where will we be?

I have not ruled out Shop sabre or excitech and even they seem to only be a couple years old I have nothing but good to say about any of the companies I have talked to. Josh glenn from camaster even included his cell phone number in his e-mail and when I called him yesterday I think he was at lunch but he still say there and talked to me. That is how a lot of us smaller companies have to operate when we don't have a office full of operators. they all always the answer phone and know what they are talking about. shop sabre does have a lot of add ons that sky rocket the base price from there listed web site price. But I appreciate what they are trying to do you can buy a solid base and upgrade as you grow but I just wanta git a machine that I don't have to touch. Just send work to it.

I hoped to make this trip this week, but with thanks giving and shop sabre is not going to be open friday, it will have to wait a while. I have to double check with both companies and make sure they are going to be there.

I will let you all know, I feel these are both good but I want to see, feel and hear, and see on run before I can make a judgment.

and carvin that is a heck of a deal I'd love to see pictures of your rusted plastic gear machine and the new one to see what changes they have made to them over the last year or so.

carvin oh where art thou carvin ??

man i really want to see some photos

cabnet

[QUOTE=KustomKoncepts;368818]we've discovered here that the chinese machine are good but I fear the no name parts on them and how to get them fixed or serviced.

If these resellers disapear or change names agian where will we be?

That's why i paid a bit extra and ordered the machine with a known good HSD spindle (Italian) and a vac pump from becker (german). The machine runs Hiwin standard and while the steppers, drivers and spindle inverter may be of china/ taiwan origin i suspect easily replaced with a locally available product.

well if they are name brands thats fine. I read somwhere that one guys machine had no labels or markings on the motors or spindel. they where all genaric smooth silver finish parts, with some chinese label.

I see in jimmy's pics that the label says HSD ITALY motor. so I figure if last bet a guy buys a replacement from HSD right.

I had a spray in bedliner system and a blower motor went out and they wanted $800 for a replacement. When the second motor went out I went to a local Gemco max/air and found the sand thing bolt patern even for $250. so if that is how this machine is I'm ok with that.

Am I correct, I could buy almost any spindel or motors or drive system and basically replace the parts? am I right in thinking that I mean are parts interchangable?

Am I correct, I could buy almost any spindel or motors or drive system and basically replace the parts? am I right in thinking that I mean are parts interchangable?

You're absolutely right. Steppers, rails and screws are all standard sizes. As for the spindle it's easy to make your own mount if you get another one.

I have friends who have Mills that could cut out a mount for me if needed.

Esmae I'm sure i have the 'ZHBDSPhandheldhost' program somewhere also, never loaded it. What does it do?

First Gcodes I ran were generated in Type3 and saved straight to the USB stick to run from the hand controller. Like you I generated different progs with file names as a tool change solution.

Not a garage or basement- stairs lead to a clean room upstairs where I do electronics assembly but its never clean cos I leave the door open so I can hear what the machine is up to ;-p

What lube are you using?

I found machine gun oil is the only thing i have found to date that sticks to the guides.

Yep the ZHB....... program gives you a toolpath preview on the computer and also sends the file to the controller. I haven't really looked into it much cause it's a bit buggy. But it does what i need.

By the way i have a computer connected to the controller and that computer is networked and pulls files from our server. I haven't even tried the usb stick option before. I understand that most people will just run the controller straight from the usb stick (no computer attached)

I use Slideway oil, I get it from a machining shop down the road. They get it in 200lt drums i get some every 4-5 months

I have friends who have Mills that could cut out a mount for me if needed.
You'll have a router. You can cut one yourself :)

carvin oh where art thou carvin ??

man i really want to see some photos

cabnet

Maybe he don't have a camera!!!!!(nuts)

he said he had photos

cabnet

I don't think he likes us anymore

kustom the parts absolutly interchange nema 34 motors whether stepper or servo refer to 3.4 inches of center between mounting holes with 1/2 inch shafts the parts are available at mcmaster carr. grainger i got a lot more
and gotta go to an appointment ($$$) i have a quote from josh and will be here more tonihgt cabnet

I see in jimmy's pics that the label says HSD ITALY motor. so I figure if last bet a guy buys a replacement from HSD right.



HSD USA is in Florida, and can rebuild your spindle if/when it need repair. We've recently had two 10 year old spindles rebuilt by them.

australia home of crocidile dundee


http://www.multicam.com.au/

I notice there is one here for sale on the auction.. you might be able to get it at a decent price?

i really want to see the photos

cabnet

Yes cabnet, Australia - Home of crocodile Dundee

Also the home of great beer, great sheilas and by the look of the machine on that website - one very sturdy looking cnc router.

How are you going with your machine purchase. Any closer to making your choice?

Rocket.

Hi everyone, I purchased an excitech SHM1325A a couple of months ago and it has just arrived in the UK ready to be shipped up to my factory. Fingers crossed that it is as good as I expect. Excitech answered every question I threw at them really quickly and seemed like a proffessional company. The only downside to importing this machine from China is all the fees payable. It has cost me an additional 2600 pounds which is basically half the purchase price again!! Still much cheaper than an equivalent spec machine in this country. I will let everyone know how I get on with it when it arrives on Friday.

welcome i know i am very interested as ihave seen the machine and can see nulitiple machine in my not to distant future local sign shops found out i am doing this and the inquiries have already started. A fax came in with a carved sign design he thought we already had one and i am a cabinetmaker.

actually if the exchange gbp to dollor is 2.06$ to 1 gbp then

2600 x 2.06 = 5356.00 us x2 = 10,712.00$ price of router US$
and 5200 GBP

Ami right tell us what you ordered ie: spindle hp? vaccum?
thanks for you info
cabnet

yep was around that figure for the router. Spec is: Standard 2HP water cooled spindle, full vacuum system with chinese vacuum pump, tool sensor. I just wanted a basic type model and if it all works to plan I will order several more with tool changers and servo motors.

Dougie, I have just been onto the currency converter and cabnet is on the money - it is $5373.81 USD.

Could you give us a breakdown of the charges. Who gets the bulk of the money? Port charges and broker fees or government?

This is a great opportunity to get some photos of the machine showing crating etc. Any chance you could take some?

Rocket.

so as we tread on thin water again with the price name game. I don't want to upset any dealers or manufacuters again. but you got a 4x8 with shipping for $5,373 USD????

or was that the freight charges?

was it 10,712 machine plus $5373.81 freight for about 16k.

If so that sounds right from what I gathered.

I got a freight charge door to door for about 2,500 USD 1,600 was the ship charge,plus port fees, customs fees, transfer fee, forwarder fee ect.

I thought you got a good deal for 16k but I was looking at a 5x10 4hp HSD becker vacume, servo upgrade ect. I was about twice that.

rocket when is yours scheduled for delivery?

Hi Kustom, Our machine left China on sunday. It will go to Melbourne first and then be put on a train to get to adelaide. Due in Melbourne approx 7th December, then probably a week for the train and customs clearance.
So we expect to see it around 13th December.

Unlike carvin, i do have my camera ready and will post plenty of photos.

Rocket.

yeah carvin where are those pictures you already had!!!!!


We have found some dealers here in the usa and the prices from them compared to the direct prices come out about the same after figuring in the charges to ship it here and port and customs charges, so it is kinda nice to buy from a local distributor of the same machine. I am about 5 hours away from one of these machines and plan to go look at it this next week.

rocket, yep will take loads of photos of it being unpacked and set up. If it arrives on Friday as planned then I get all weekend to play with it and hopefully will have some pics and basic conclusion on Monday :)
I dont think disclosing the price I have paid should be an issue?! It is for people to make an informed choice whether to go direct to the manufacturer or through a dealer. As it is there are no dealers I know of in the UK for these machines. The price breakdown for import charges is as follows:

seafreight $1959.95
CAF $118.71
BAF $218.22
PSS $62.35
Total $1459.23 @ r/e 2.023 = £721.32

Delivery Order/Line docs £60.00
UK terminal Handling £292.42
Delivery to Burnley £280 less £25 differential = £255
Fuel surcharge £21.00
Customs entry £35.00
DTI £4.50
Exam £11.00

Duty £147.51
VAT £996.55

Total £2544.30

Hi,
My question is how many of you guys speak Chinese ?:confused: What are you going to do when you have a problem with the machine ? It's just a machine and sooner or later you're going to have problems. I bought a Chinese machine from an American vendor and have been pleased. I'm a cabinetmaker. Have been for 32 years. I'm evidently not as smart as some of you guys, but I can build some cabinets! Tech support, parts, advice, ongoing relationship with vendor, more time to build cabinets. Think about it....... in Chinese??? Not for me. What are you going to cut with a 2hp motor? My import came standard with a 3hp and I upgraded to a 5hp Colombo spindle and a vaccum table. My vendor did that. He also set up software speed control so I could control the spindle rpms and travel speed with my software program. He came to my shop and setup my machine and got it working. He came back a year later and added another head so I could use my compression bit to dado and profile cut and use the other head to line bore. He modified my Win CNC.ini file so this would all happen automatically. Then he went online with my software vendor and together they added a post to my design and cnc software so it would communicate properly with Win CNC. Oh yeah, my vendor included Win CNC on this machine, not the cheaper program that usually comes with the Chinese routers. They also have a line of cnc machines that they build from the floor up. I didn't have tons of money to spend on a cnc but I knew I need one and I couldn't do it alone. Chinese vendor direct? No. Please, don't take my word for all this. I'm just one guy. Go to www.camaster.com and check them out. Call Bill or Josh and talk to them. I had an older gentleman who was a contractor tell me one time to get all the advice I could get and then do what I wanted to do. That's what I did and it turned out ok! Good luck and HAPPY THANKSGIVING !!! :)
Keith Godwin
Godwin Cabinet Shop, Inc.
Camden, SC

Hi guys, not a lot happening until we get our machines.

I would like to start working out how to post photos here and i was wondering if anybody is interested in writing about panel finishing.
Gives me an opportunity to use the camera and maybe i can give some pointers on our techniques. I would expect that most people have their own methods. Might be a good exchange of info.

Any takers?

Rocket

panel finishing Laquers, paints, epoxy what is your application

www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

cabnet

i believe i am gonna have a go with the router camaster, i'm done for the night but i would like to come by monday or tuesday

jim m aka cabnet

G`day cabnet, we make built in robes with sliding doors.

Some of these doors are plain melamine, some with mirrors and also routered panel doors.

We have been outsourcing the router panel work for years, but as our work volume increases we need to do this inhouse so that we can have total control over the process.

We are not a large business, just a family business doing our best to supply robes at the lowest possible price for our customers.

We have our own painter/polisher - Frank - a great bloke who has experimented with finishing panels over many years and does first rate work.

The panels are primarily painted in acrylic lacquer, although we also do a lot of timber veneered panels which are polished.

I have just been to see him and have taken some photos. I will post them in a couple of hours.

Rocket

There is one of them for sale here in the classifieds. Why dont one of you buy it here and report on it?

Here we go fellows. This is our first attempt to post photos.

Hope it works.

Rocket.

And here are a couple of examples of the finished product.


Rocket.

Hi,
My question is how many of you guys speak Chinese ?:confused: What are you going to do when you have a problem with the machine ? It's just a machine and sooner or later you're going to have problems. I bought a Chinese machine from an American vendor and have been pleased. I'm a cabinetmaker. Have been for 32 years. I'm evidently not as smart as some of you guys, but I can build some cabinets! Tech support, parts, advice, ongoing relationship with vendor, more time to build cabinets. Think about it....... in Chinese??? Not for me. What are you going to cut with a 2hp motor? My import came standard with a 3hp and I upgraded to a 5hp Colombo spindle and a vaccum table. My vendor did that. He also set up software speed control so I could control the spindle rpms and travel speed with my software program. He came to my shop and setup my machine and got it working. He came back a year later and added another head so I could use my compression bit to dado and profile cut and use the other head to line bore. He modified my Win CNC.ini file so this would all happen automatically. Then he went online with my software vendor and together they added a post to my design and cnc software so it would communicate properly with Win CNC. Oh yeah, my vendor included Win CNC on this machine, not the cheaper program that usually comes with the Chinese routers. They also have a line of cnc machines that they build from the floor up. I didn't have tons of money to spend on a cnc but I knew I need one and I couldn't do it alone. Chinese vendor direct? No. Please, don't take my word for all this. I'm just one guy. Go to www.camaster.com and check them out. Call Bill or Josh and talk to them. I had an older gentleman who was a contractor tell me one time to get all the advice I could get and then do what I wanted to do. That's what I did and it turned out ok! Good luck and HAPPY THANKSGIVING !!! :)
Keith Godwin
Godwin Cabinet Shop, Inc.
Camden, SC

Hi Keith,

They speak English

Scott

G`day Howzat, I remember that your machine is due to arrive in Melbourne tomorrow.
Have you heard from your freight forwarder as yet?

My wife and i had a holiday in Tasmania early this year and we had a good look around at all of the beautiful wood that you have over there. We went over there so that we could go to the " working with wood" show.
Our intention was to see some cnc routers there, but guess what - there was not one there.
The post that keithg put up this arvo suggested that we should buy our routers through a distributor. I would agree with him if we were in the USA. But keithg the whole problem with that ( for we Aussies ) is that there are no distributors of excitech machines in Australia that i am aware of!

Howzat i hope that you let us know when your machine arrives. You have the best wood in the world at your back door. We look forward to seeing some examples off of your machine.



Regards, Rocket.

we'll talk finishes i can show you info forums specifically on this
thats the ultimate component of my bread and butter. i can tell by your shop the drying racks and all the paint on the rolling rack as well as the routed detail you are about really reach some unlimited new highs with your business.
i've done some closets in mohogany, one in a room of 1800 square feet
(ya ain't gotta be in texas anamore for largess)

as well i know that whatever router we all end up with we better
at least know where this is
http://www.globalspec.com/
cabnet

Cabnet, thanks for your kind words.

From your photos it looks like you do some pretty elaborate cabinet making. They look superb. I think that your cnc router is going to get quite a workout.

The market that we operate in is the "mortgage belt", mostly young couples starting out with their first homes. Our robes are in the lower price range. They are not full carcase type robes. We use the wall of the room as the back and sides, this keeps the cost down to affordable levels.

The panels on our routered doors are mainly MDF.

I would be interested in looking at the forums about finishing of panels. You very rarely read anything about the techniques used. It is one thing to router the panels, but if they are not sanded and painted properly they can end up looking very ordinary. Did you notice the type of sanding block that was in one of our photos? It is a "bullnose" block. Do you use these in the USA? Makes the sanding much easier. Routered areas always have a degree of " fur " on them, but you do not hear a lot about this. I would assume that the amount of fur depends on quality of cutters and also how sharp they are.

Dougie, The charges that you posted are very similar to what we pay in Australia. The port charges are very steep and you get the impression that they milk every dollar ( or pound ) out of you that they can.
Looking forward to seeing your photos and hearing your impressions of your machine.

Rocket.

G`day Howzat, I remember that your machine is due to arrive in Melbourne tomorrow.
Have you heard from your freight forwarder as yet?

My wife and i had a holiday in Tasmania early this year and we had a good look around at all of the beautiful wood that you have over there. We went over there so that we could go to the " working with wood" show.
Our intention was to see some cnc routers there, but guess what - there was not one there.
The post that keithg put up this arvo suggested that we should buy our routers through a distributor. I would agree with him if we were in the USA. But keithg the whole problem with that ( for we Aussies ) is that there are no distributors of excitech machines in Australia that i am aware of!

Howzat i hope that you let us know when your machine arrives. You have the best wood in the world at your back door. We look forward to seeing some examples off of your machine.



Regards, Rocket.


Yep it's due into Melbourne today. The container has to be unpacked and then the machine freighted across Bass Strait, so I probably won't see it for at least another week.

I hope to be able to make some nice things out of the great Tassie timbers. My stepfather has a stockpile that I'm hoping he'll give me access to, otherwise I'm going to have to try and suss out good local sources. I've got a bit of learning to do though, I didn't realise there was such an art to just finishing timber properly!

Should the 1.5 kW spindle be up to working on hardwood if I keep the cuts shallow enough?

No problem Howzat, Just go down the back paddock with an axe.

But don`t tell the greenies!

Rocket

That could be a problem because I'm a bit of a greenie myself :-)

My mums got 90 acres of bush but has already scotched the idea of ripping into that! Something about it supposedly being a conservation area.. Not that we have the machinery or skills needed to process it anyway.

OUCH!

Rocket

howzat, Any chance that your stepfather has any huon pine in his stockpile that you could use?
Which part of Tassie are you located? My wife and i have been over several times now. We stay at the Wrest Point complex in Hobart. Will be over again around xmas. Can`t get enough of the place. Went to Geeveston area last time to see the museum, they have great displays of different timbers and machinery. Then we went to the Tahune forest airwalk. Incredible to walk over the top of the huge trees. Anybody looking for a holiday destination would be well advised to go and see Tasmania.

If you do a google search for 'woodworking forums' you will be able to find out about sealing, staining and polishing. There are a few basic steps to take but it will not be hard to get a good finish.

I am not qualified to know how your 1.5KW spindle can handle hardwood, but Scott has mentioned that his has never bogged down. You are probably correct in suggesting shallow cuts.

Rocket

OK, I've just read through this thread, but a lot of posts are deleted - so hang with me here:

What was the final cost to bring of one of these mechs in the US? Are they really 2x the price that the Aussies pay??

G`day vid1900, Greetings from Australia, welcome aboard.

No - you would not pay double the price that we pay. If you are interested in these machines you can either deal through an American dealer such as camaster, or go direct to sh-cnc. Member keithg has put up a convincing argument to go through a dealer. If you do a search such as google or dogpile you may find a dealer in your area. If you are near South Carolina - go check out camaster - highly recommended by keithg.

Rocket

G`day carvinmarvin, I got to thinking today that maybe i should apply for a job with exitech.
I would need a marketing plan to put forward and also a good slogan.

What do you think of this slogan?

EXITECH CNC ROUTERS - CARVIN UP THE OPPOSITION!


Rocket.

I have to argee and disagree with Rocket here.

Yes, it would be a good idea to go through a USA distributor. Yes we over here will be paying a lot more than buying direct.

but direct you will get nailed with shipping and customs fee's, you will not have any local support, and if it is your first machine you may be lost. I for one would not import direct anymore. I would buy through www.camaster.com

I just got another quote but there are a lot of hidden charges on it again an I will be over 30k again. For example the base price then add for switches, pumps, spindels, and 100 other things. I'm starting to look at used name brand equipement but that is all overpriced to. I am just a 1 man sign shop I'm not able to make any money with a 30k machine. when I started this I was thinking 15k and I could but it would be like a 4x4 table and a portacable router. If I can't get something decent I won't buy at all.

every cnc site and a lot of businesses are guilty of doing this but it is like the lower end cnc sites show a very low price on the website but then when you get talking to them you find out that that low price was just the gantry and top, you need a pedestal stand, router or spindel, switches, vacume top, vacume pump, tool sensor, computer, dust skirt, dust collector and the list goes on. It is frustrating and I know they are offering us small guys to get something even if it is a portacable and I have to build the legs for it and I can upgrade it as I want or need.

the problem being that if I put together a machine from these low end dealers by the time I get the same sizex HP spindel, Vacume table, dust and whatever I could have just bought a Multicam, Komo, THermwood or axyz at about the same price.

these bigger cnc places like the gerber sabre there is one price here it is, its a 4x8 7hp columbo, 20 hp becker vacumepump vacume table 6 zone, all the legs and switched, nergency switches ect.

why was that so hard to say I want to know what it is going to cost when it is sitting here and running.

cnc manufacturers and distributors quit being so shady and just put the price in writting.

its like going to McDonalds ordering the siper sized meal because it is so much better, Paying extra for it at the first window and getting shorted at the second window. then you have to go to the third window and pay more for all the extra stuff that was not included at the first time you ordered.

quit being to devious.

just my $ .25000

G`day Kustom, You bring up some very good points.

In the USA you have many choices - EZ-Rout, Shopbot, Shop-Sabre, Techno, and many others. You rarely see bad reports of any machine.

You mentioned previously that you were considering a Shop-Sabre with minimal options for around $25,000. Then you found out that you could import a machine with more features for the same money. But you are concerned that the imported machine will not have service back up.

Why not take a few days off and go and see some of these machines.
If you work out what YOU NEED in a machine and forget about the bells and whistles surely you could buy a machine for under $20,000.

I think that we cnc "newbies" are a little overwhelmed by it all.

In our case we are delighted to have bought our excitech for under 20,000. Perhaps we should have got the auto tool changer, but i was sick of waiting. I want to start routing panels. We figure that the basic machine will do the same job as the fancy machine. As far as specs go, we got the 3.5KW ( 4.7 hp ) spindle and the vacuum pump. That will be a good combination to start with. Our next machine will be a fancy one and we will pay for it with the profits that we hope to make from the first machine.

Go see the EZ-Router and the Shop-Sabre and any others that you can, but keep it basic. Stick to your budget and buy a machine. Get routing!

Regards, Rocket.

Yes it is very overwelming to newbie's, I'm one of them. I've been torn back and forth left and right then up and down.

Now I am laying in a pile in the corner...

yes origionally I was looking at techno vs shop sabre then excitech seemed great but when I stop and look at all the ad ons for ALL these companies I come up with basically the same thing.

some offer one big price while others show a low price to get you talking to them but then after adding all that the other company included they are the same.

Yes I was able to get a excitech with 5x10 4hp 5.5 Chinese made vacume and machined table for around 20K DIRECT then $2800 to get it here along with countless hurdles and problems.

now when contacted a north american distributor he sounded great saying we get cargo ship loads of these all the time. when I said I was 6hr away I'll be there tomorrow the story when from container loads to 1. he had one there now. and its leaving monday. I gave up tring to go look at one of these here in usa. it just story after story and dead ends and hidden charges with them to. now I wanted to come see him and they are leaving for china for 10 days. there is a interesting similar dealings and story on this fourm about these guys and after reading that I am really not going to even go see these guys. I'm not going to say who this guy is besides I am actually now higher than some of the tehno, sabre, multicams quotes. with a 8 plus week deliver time.

so now what I am doing is looking at all these different quotes...

I made a spread sheet to compare all the variables involved here.

1. size
2. hp spindel
3. spindel brand
4. stepper or servo
5. rack and pinion or ball screw
6. vac tops HP vac pumps and brand
7. hidden costs and freight

after all this these machines are in the same price range 20-35. the machines have to have the same or equivilent type of parts to compare or justify the higher or lower cost.

example you can't compare the price if one has servos and 5 hp vs a stepper with 4hp

taking it all into consideration and working in the buget is key.

I don't have the top of the line,, over the top,, BEST... digital printer, vinyl plotter, paint booth, welder, plasma cutter. ect I have what I was able to obtain or pay for.

It is the same with cnc machines. am I wrong these all cut stuff based on a G code that we send it. any one can buy a digital vinyl printer but not all can design cool colorfull graphics to print out. A machine is only as good as the info WE send it.

these routers range from $1,900 to half a million dollars. yet some of us live in trailer houses while others live in 2 million dollar houses. unfortunatly I am one step below the trailer house people I rent a efficiency appartment. so there for I can't get financing nor could I make the payment on a top of the line 80K cnc.

Where my sister works they just put in there 5th $380,000 KOMO sumit cnc, it cuts 8" granite counter tops at 80 ipm. its bigger than my apartment.

He laughs at me when I get worried about how I can make the $450mo payment on my little cnc toy and that I can't even get a loan for a 25K machine with out collateral or a cosigner.

so we are all on different levels the rich get richer while the poor stay poor.

so basically I have 25K, thats it. I bought a computer already $560.00

I am working a favor with a electrition for some vinyl work on his trailer.

there are seveal ways I can go but this is what I think I am going to do.

Shop Sabre 4x8

Opted to build my own legs for it. save $1,600

limit switches

tool measure and dust collect skirt

automated spindel control on/off and rpm

HSD 5 HP 24,000rpm with 5 position ATC

vac table build and plumb myself (Later)

with freight I come in at just over 25K

a pump will cost me about 3,000 later I will use my shop vac or another hold down for now.

Why shop sabre?

they are 4 hrs away so tech support and question are good and though they seem to be a fairly new business I am willing to take on there machine.

Like I said I can't buy the best top of the line stuff but even though I'd love a 110,000 fully automated Komo or something, I have to work with my entry level equipement, it really is up to who the creative mind and opperator behind the equipement is.

The Rich people can buy high dollar equipement but they can't always buy the talent to run them.

I wanted to add I can't wait until we all just have a machine an can drop the which one to buy thing and prices! I for one have seen that you generally get what you pay for. you have to compare similar equipement and features and then prices are the similar when you compare apples to apples, do that and you will see.

its kinda like us snowmobilers I don't care what you ride as long as you are out here freazing your butt of like me and having fun. unless you ride a Arctic Cat then don't ride with me. JK

so in closing it don't really matter what you buy just what you can make with what you bought!!!

Kustom, It does not matter what type of housing we all live in. As long as you and your family have a roof over your head and food to put in your bellies everything else is secondary. Anybody who would laugh at another person trying to get ahead in life needs a good swift kick up the a...

Big businesses can keep their $380,000 machines and the lease payments that go with them. We were quoted over $100,000 for an Aussie machine and offered an easy lease payment of $2,600 per month. No thanks.

Your choice of Shop-Sabre sounds good. One thing i would be worried about is making your own legs for the table. It is my understanding that cnc machines must be absolutely level. Makes it easy for a manufacturer if it becomes your responsibility to make it level. Could you negotiate the price and get them to supply a turnkey machine including legs? If not, go and see someone like EZ-Router - I bet they would.

You say that your excitech quote was $22,800 delivered.Not a bad price.
Did you look at the photos that Jimmy posted of the machine? No need to make legs for that one! I do not understand what you mean about countless hurdles and problems. Importing is easy - The company do all the work.
Maybe if you ask Shop-Sabre to meet the quote they might just do it. You won`t know until you try!

Another point about service back up. If you buy a machine from somebody 3 hours away, if something goes wrong will they send a repair man to fix it? Probably not - they will try to diagnose the problem via phone or email.
I am not having a crack at anyone, but will they send a repairman? Do the USA cnc businesses have a network of service people or do you just call in a local cnc serviceman?

When all is said and done i do hope that you buy the Shop-Sabre.


Rocket.

howzat, Any chance that your stepfather has any huon pine in his stockpile that you could use?
Which part of Tassie are you located? My wife and i have been over several times now. We stay at the Wrest Point complex in Hobart. Will be over again around xmas. Can`t get enough of the place. Went to Geeveston area last time to see the museum, they have great displays of different timbers and machinery. Then we went to the Tahune forest airwalk. Incredible to walk over the top of the huge trees. Anybody looking for a holiday destination would be well advised to go and see Tasmania.

Rocket
I'm in the north-west rocket, Devonport, where the Spirit comes in. Glad you enjoy visiting the state, there are certainly a lot of nice places, but I'd still love to live somewhere warmer for about eight months of the year :-)

My stepfather does have a fair amount of Huon pine I think, it just remains to be seen how much sweet talking I have to do to be able to get at it. He's not one for sharing usually :-)

howzat, It is a small world that we live in. I have a good news story about Devonport.
My son went to Launceston a few months back to pick up a 65 Mustang. The seller had described it as a car in very good condition that would make the trip back to Adelaide with no worries. My son drove it to Devonport to put it on the Spirit, but he was having trouble with the starter motor. He pulled into the Auto Electrician`s shop at Devonport and although they were busy they dropped what they were doing and spent the afternoon fixing the car so that he could drive it onto the Spirit that night. Great people! If you know them please pass on our thanks. The car made it back to Adelaide with no further problems.

My wife and i spent a couple of days around Devonport and Burnie and we were amazed at the scenery. Only problem was the cop at Devonport who gave me a speeding fine. I don`t believe that i was speeding!

Adelaide is too hot for us in Summer, so we would prefer to be in Tassie.

Just be very nice to your stepfather and promise to make him something with his huon pine on your router.

Regards, Rocket

by the way he paid 380,000 cash for that cnc. and yes he is full of himself!!

But Rocket you misunderstood my latest posts. I was origionally quoted at 22800 shipped but now I just got requoted at 27K plus 4500 to 6500 for a vacume pump plus about 1500 crating and freight. so now it would be about 34K to get the same machine that you got for under 20.

the dealers that are reselling these here seem to be a very small spotty network of support teams just taking orders I will take more of a risk on my second machine when I know more about all this.

Like I said there have been so many different prices and different stories from all these different sources about the same machine that I am just fed up with it.I wish that I had never Dug so deep and found this same machine under so many different names then I would not be so sceptical about it all.

if you search for any other cnc machine they all go to one website (Their website) not a ton of different people buying the same chinese machine and repainting it and putting different decals on it with there name and reselling it.

after really looking at all these machines I compared what they have and what they will cost and I figure they are all about the same so I will buy from who I think is the best closest most professional machine for the money I have been approved for under a 60mo loan.

Yeah Kustom, I'm becoming very skeptical too.

It looks like even the base model from CAMaster (AR-408), is 3x the money here in the USA than others are paying in the UK and Australia. They have the base price listed as $20K plus delivery.

What am I getting for 3x the cost? There is no mention of ANY guarantee at all, I'm sure if I have a problem I get only phone support, the CAMaster forums are completely empty, the picture is just a stock photo - no pics of the hand controller (or anything else for that matter), no instruction manuals in the download section.

I think I just figured out why Shopbott has been so successful; Huge online support community, deep website full of pictures, manuals, PRICES! - even the options have PRICES,

What is the actual price from China?

Kustom, i do not think that i misunderstood. At the risk of upsetting a few people , i will spell it out

1) You were quoted $22,800 to buy direct from sh-cnc.

2) You then obtained a quote from a dealer and were quoted $34,000

3) You believe that because you found the machine listed on a few
different websites under different names there must be something out
of place.

I would take the opposite point of view. If a lot of different businesses are importing the machines it must be because they are good machines.
It is standard business practice to buy something without a label, modify it to your own specs and resell it under a different name. There is nothing wrong with doing this. But of course it is going to be re sold at a higher price. I say good on you to the dealers who do it. They are simply trying to make a living the same as you and i, they also have put in a large amount of capital to do it.

Anyway, have you considered speaking to Shop-Sabre to see if you can do a deal to include the legs?

Rocket.

what website for camaster are you going to

ad link

cabnet

you are right they do have about the strongest website out there
i went to thier plant in durham little arrogant and proud there ir no mistaking that

i also visited the shop of kieth godwin and saw the camaster in operation
the router was well built and was well supported by the provider camaster out of lafayette ga.

Here is my logic (somebody try to find a flaw in it please!):

1. Order directly from China for 1/3 the price.
2. If it runs, great!
3. If it does not run, remove drivers and replace with 4 "industry standard" Gecko G203V Drivers $600, new power supply $100, and Mach3 $150.

what website for camaster are you going to

ad link

cabnet

Sorry about that:

http://www.camaster.com/portal/Products/AR408/tabid/66/Default.aspx

I will either pay the 1600.00 for them or build them. My friend builds race car chassis he can handle some legs. is was one of the hidden cost that I was talking about. a shop sabre is actuall 12k on their site then you find that is for no legs they call it a pedistal, your choice of spindel, tool sensor,servo upgrade ect. so the 12k turns into 16K fast.

Techno quote was 18K for the base but that included the table, stand, servos, tool measure and so on so Like I said after you really look at all the hidden things you find that the comparable techno to a sabre is 16 vs 18 The same in my book. plus both of them need a spindel and vacume pump yet so you push 25-30. just like the excitech is now pushing 30plus so really in the usa these machines are all comparable and the same price as far as I am concerned. I actually trust that sh is a good company but the people who are reselling then here are not trust worthy. notice that motiontec canida suddenly took of the picture of the excitech after we started talking about them. a guy pm ed me saying he had the best price on the excitech and he was from toranto but motion sill don't have a working phone number or return any e-mails. these other us dealer seem to take orders and work out of there garages or old rundown warehouses.

enugh said I gave up on china routers I am ordering a shop sabre.

Like I said once we all get the router of our choice, we should converse and show off what we can make with a cnc instead of fighting over what one to buy.

i have like kustom
studied these things untill i absolutly have to spread it out in comparison

and i will say they are all full of chinese parts motors

that all of the parts are obtainable in the us

that they aint brain surgery
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31780&d=1171660614

and that the biggest downfall of the chinese router is the cuthroat
competion between the people involved at the import and distribution level

this router could stand a hard place here in the us if the damn thing was not so poorly representewd by its own maker

cabnet

Amen

i swear i am ready to meet this guy
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31780&d=1171660614
cabnet

no here
http://oneoceankayaks.com/madvac/madvac_index.htm

vid1900, I think that you would find that if you bought direct it would be about 2/3 of what you would pay through a dealer.

You would expect an excellent quality of machine and if you had any problems sh-cnc are only an email or phone call away.

Having written that, please do not disregard your USA manufacturers. There are quite a few of them in your country. Surely as a citizen of the United States you would prefer to buy locally made goods.

This thread was intended to provide some insights into a "newbies" attempts to master the art of cnc routers, not to become an advertisement for this brand of machine - although i have been accused of doing just that.

If you are new to cnc routers please check out your local manufacturers and dealers first.

Rocket.

you also have to under stand that we in the usa are opposite of australia and china. when we are open for business HERE australia and china are closed. the time difference makes it hard to call china and get support when we will need it not to mention the cost of international calls.

The:

http://www.webshcnc.com/english/1530.asp

Machine is $3500 FOB China. Let's just say that it took another $2500 in shipping to get it to me (I've been told $2500 will get me an ENTIRE container so I'd have room for 5 more!). So right there I'm at less than 1/3 of the cost of buying from a USA dealer.

If the thing arrives and works, great!

If not:

I use Gecko drives now, so I'm not afraid to swap the stepper drivers. The new Gecko G203Vs are said to be totally un-killable, you can even unhook a running motor and not blow them up! Those would be a nice upgrade, if needed:

http://www.geckodrive.com/product.cfm?pid=38


I have built many power supplies, they are quite easy. Look how simple a beefy 300VA unit is to build from scratch (for $60) :

http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58


Sh-cnc says it uses Hiwin rails - I can get those locally. If I blow a motor (I know, unlikely) I would replace it with a solid Oriental Motor replacement model.


I don't care where something is made. Even the USA made Shopbott uses Oriental Motors in their mechs, so I don't think you could find a product made entirely in the US.

vid1900, You sure as heck know a whole lot more about cnc than i do.

I am not sure how you arrive at the price of $3500. If you are talking about machine size 1530 you are way off. You will need to contact sh-cnc to get the prices.

Our machine is in a 20ft container on its way to Australia. We opted for a sole use container in order to get it here faster. Unless you are talking of a smaller size router you will not fit many machines in a container.

If you read pages 7,8,9,10 of this thread you will gain a good insight into these machines. Scott and Jimmy both write of their experience with them and Jimmy has also posted photos.

Rocket.

The:

http://www.webshcnc.com/english/1530.asp

Machine is $3500 FOB China.

I find that hard to believe as well. The HiWins and the spindle would cost more than that. The Spindle and VFD would be at least $2500

as usual i am willing to check it out
we will see soon
cabnet

check this
http://www.super-tech.com/root/grp.asp?p1=Diao_Routers

main page
http://www.super-tech.com/

http://www.super-tech.com/root/grp.asp?p1=assoc

i read some of your other post on cnczone
have you built a machine, dealer or are you buying a machine

i read some of your other post on cnczone
have you built a machine, dealer or are you buying a machine

I crashed into CNC largely by accident. My neighbor bought a mill at auction for $11K. A year later the computer board smoked. The manufacturer wanted $8k for a refurbished board. He had a heart attack and called me up to "fix" the board. I did some research and saw than many people were simply retrofitting mills and routers with Gecko drivers and using Mach3 software. I did that on his mill and we came in well under $1k. It was all downhill from there.....


One can build a 4x8' Mechmate for just under $4K:

http://www.mechmate.com/

But at this very moment, I have more money than time, so I think I'm going to import myself a sh-cnc.

the mechmate and have the plans
i also found another larger set of plans

really have considered building this one
where are you getting chinese quote

where are you getting chinese quote

Two parties have emailed me that they bought one direct from china at $3100 and the other at $3400 usd.

If you can build a "one off" 4x8' router here in the US for under 4k, does anyone doubt that you can build them in volume in China for less?

communicating with the direct source
is it possibile for me to communicate with them

we have already seen this on this thread

cabnet

I just got a call from an import guy (on a Sunday yet, these guys are on top of things), I was a little off on shipping. A 20' container from China to the US is $3300. He says based on the crated dimensions, you could get six of them in a "cube high" 20' container.

He also says 30 days from China and 10 days sitting on the docks waiting for customs to clear.

it isnt an issue with the chinese
who is selling the machine

i would ship to chas sc

3500 plus freight is a pretty good deal. the best price I have gotten was 23000 shipped. but after seeing how the dealer network over here works I now would only buy direct from china if I wanted one of these.

communicating with the direct source
is it possibile for me to communicate with them

we have already seen this on this thread

cabnet

I have emailed the contact at Sh-cnc that the member emailed to me (Which, by the way, the import guy said was a mistake. He says to always let his guys "on the ground" in China make the contacts for best pricing. Who knew???).

IF and this is a big IF, this all looks like it is a go, AND you have the funds available (so you are not holding me up), it is possible we could share a container. Another person is interested too, so it could end up a 3 way split.

Don't get your hopes up too high yet, until we get a solid number....

3500 plus freight is a pretty good deal. the best price I have gotten was 23000 shipped. but after seeing how the dealer network over here works I now would only buy direct from china if I wanted one of these.

Wow, that's high! You did see that a dealer in AZ is selling the 4x8 sh-cnc for $8,950:

http://www.super-tech.com/root/itm.asp?p1=ITM-CNC-Routers

I can only assume that they are buying them directly themselves, and of course, making much less of a profit!

well I hate this name that price game it only get us in trouble but origionally I talked direct to sh and was going to get the SHMS1530A

that is a 5x10 Gear-wheel transimission, DSP system, 3.5 KW Itialian HSD, Servo Motor system and delta inverter, Without vacume including Wenti and Type 3 software about 15,500

my choice of vacume pump Becker 3,900 chinese made pump 2,320

dust collector 370.00

Mist cooling 560

tool sensor 50

door to door freight 2800

all together about 23K

Now according to what I see here yes a SGH1325 2 kw stepper no vac is also 8400 from sh.

I want to make sure that you know the machine I am looking at from all these different places has always been the

5x10 4 hp with 7.5 hp vac, tool sensor, mist coolant, vac bakelite top. and freight.

I think you are looking a a stepper 4x8 right?

I think the name that price game keeps us OUT of trouble.

The more educated the consumer is, the better purchase decisions he is likely to make and the more honest the dealers are forced to become. It is a win win for everybody.

Well I mean in trouble with the dealers and manufactureres unless it is a publically published price we could get in trouble that is why I try to give general prices.

I do belive that the link you sent me for the guy in AZ looks the same but looks different than the sh pics I seen.

this one in AZ looks like the piece I saw on ebay. same color and big boxed in spindel enclosure. it may almost be the same But the sh I looked at had all the specs I posted above.

the more you know is good as long as we can truely see the suddel differences among all these similar machines. keep in mind the sizes, hp and features and freeight we are all taking into consideration.

any one seen or use these. do they work?

I want to kut light alum but the thought of a liquid cooling system on my table makes me sad. especially when I would set a 4x8 2" $400 piece of HDU on it after using a cooling fluid.

one dealer wanted 1500 for a vortex cooler. isnt this the same thing for $230???


http://www.4-airknives.com/cooltool.htm

maybe this is what they were giving me for 1500

http://www.vortec.com/vortex_coolers.php

or this
http://www.vortec.com/vortex_tubes.php

https://secure.vortec.com/store_products.php?catID=6

apparently on this last link they make these blow hot or cold air.

one of these us dealers made a good point and it has been the point I am trying to see. all three diferent quotes of the same excitech machine offer all different kinda of configuration and that is what the huge flux in pricing quotes has been.

here is his points and he is right, I deleted out the companies names for a reason. it don't matter who they are but read about all the differences that he points out.

******,

It looks like the ******** proposal has the handheld controller and not the computer
based controller that I recommended. My guess is that ((((((((((( proposal is also for the
same controller.

If the 5 hp vacuum pump from ******** was a Becker he probably would have
proudly said so. We have 5 hp Chinese vacuum pumps that appear to be copies of
the Becker, but I do not have experience with it yet to be able to recommend it.
These 5 hp Chinese pumps are less expensive than the German pumps if
you would like to try one.

I am not sure which 4 hp spindle ******** is offering. This is not a standard spindle
for us.

The spindle in ((((((((((( proposal is an air cooled spindle that is much louder than the
liquid cooled spindles. We can supply these spindles, but I do not recommend them.

So, now what? The proposals you have are for different machines with different spindles,
different controllers, and different vacuum pumps with different levels of support offered and
different prices. I can say that we have over one hundred machines delivered with,
as far as I know, all happy customers. We have a full stock of spare parts should you ever
need them. We have three factory trained support engineers with a combined time of thousands
of hours working on these machines. Our customers have been happy with the Mach3
controller. We have never had a customer choose the handheld controller after seeing Mach3.

i was shown this at shiop bot in nc
for cutting aluminum
not my material
it is al so here
http://www.ez-router.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=54

yes you would not use a vortex tube on wood or HDU (Hight Dennsity Urathane) sign board. but I would use it when cutting .04 alum sheets for racecar bodies.

I also hear it helps with poly corbanat and plexi glass and other plastics to keep the bit from melting to the material

one of these us dealers made a good point and it has been the point I am trying to see. all three diferent quotes of the same excitech machine offer all different kinda of configuration and that is what the huge flux in pricing quotes has been.

here is his points and he is right, I deleted out the companies names for a reason. it don't matter who they are but read about all the differences that he points out.

******,

It looks like the ******** proposal has the handheld controller and not the computer
based controller that I recommended. My guess is that ((((((((((( proposal is also for the
same controller.

If the 5 hp vacuum pump from ******** was a Becker he probably would have
proudly said so. We have 5 hp Chinese vacuum pumps that appear to be copies of
the Becker, but I do not have experience with it yet to be able to recommend it.
These 5 hp Chinese pumps are less expensive than the German pumps if
you would like to try one.

I am not sure which 4 hp spindle ******** is offering. This is not a standard spindle
for us.

The spindle in ((((((((((( proposal is an air cooled spindle that is much louder than the
liquid cooled spindles. We can supply these spindles, but I do not recommend them.

So, now what? The proposals you have are for different machines with different spindles,
different controllers, and different vacuum pumps with different levels of support offered and
different prices. I can say that we have over one hundred machines delivered with,
as far as I know, all happy customers. We have a full stock of spare parts should you ever
need them. We have three factory trained support engineers with a combined time of thousands
of hours working on these machines. Our customers have been happy with the Mach3
controller. We have never had a customer choose the handheld controller after seeing Mach3.

Those are all good points.

My logic would be that if you are NOT handy at all, get the brand name, high quality components - they "should" last longer.

If you ARE handy, you could safely try those Chinese versions and save money twice. How? Because you are not going to get the best price on a brand name spindle or pump from a mech vendor (at least none that I have found). Get the cheap pump, if it dies in a few years, you know you can shop around and get the best price on a Becker, and just swap it out. The price of the cheap pump + the Becker you shopped around for, will be cheaper than the price you would have paid the vendor for the Becker alone.

Those air cooled spindles (even the brand name ones) are indeed quite loud. But you can remove the built in fan blades and just run a 12V computer fan blowing in its place. A quick test with a laser thermometer shows it cools just as well with no noise at all.

Mach3 is great software, with an amazing amount of online support, but you need to run a 1.3ghz computer at all times for it to work. Computers inhale mounds of dust in a shop environment. The dust will stop the cpu fan and ruin whatever piece you are working on. You will want to get a DirtBag to keep dust out of the comp and monitor:

http://www.dirtbag.biz/

We have a machine at work with two HSD 10HP air cooled spindles. Yes, the fans are loud, but not as loud as the tool when it's cutting. So unless you need to stand next to them all day when the machine isn't cutting, I wouldn't be too worried about it. And btw, they lasted about 8 years before they needed to be rebuilt.

cabnet636

Yes, you can come back to mu shop anytime. I will be in Sumter first thing Monday but should return by lunch. I've got some knotty pine coming in from DHP sometime Monday and it's got to be cutout. Good time to check it out.
Keith

My machine runs with WinCNC. My vendor says it is a better pc of software than Mach 3. He says this because he tried to run it on a machine he installed in Florida and wasn't satisfied with it. WinCNC, as I understand, is considerably more expensive but worth it. I've never used Mach 3, only WinCNC, but this is what I was told. See if you can have a tech go on your computer to analyze and fix problems with Mach 3. I know for a fact you can with WinCNC.

Dougie, A new day is dawning in your part of the world.

We are eagerly anticipating seeing your report on your new machine and hopefully some photos.


Regards, Rocket

Those are all good points.

My logic would be that if you are NOT handy at all, get the brand name, high quality components - they "should" last longer.

If you ARE handy, you could safely try those Chinese versions and save money twice. How? Because you are not going to get the best price on a brand name spindle or pump from a mech vendor (at least none that I have found). Get the cheap pump, if it dies in a few years, you know you can shop around and get the best price on a Becker, and just swap it out. The price of the cheap pump + the Becker you shopped around for, will be cheaper than the price you would have paid the vendor for the Becker alone.

Those air cooled spindles (even the brand name ones) are indeed quite loud. But you can remove the built in fan blades and just run a 12V computer fan blowing in its place. A quick test with a laser thermometer shows it cools just as well with no noise at all.

Mach3 is great software, with an amazing amount of online support, but you need to run a 1.3ghz computer at all times for it to work. Computers inhale mounds of dust in a shop environment. The dust will stop the cpu fan and ruin whatever piece you are working on. You will want to get a DirtBag to keep dust out of the comp and monitor:

http://www.dirtbag.biz/

I am curious about your computer fan claim VID1900.

If you consider my HSD A/C Spindle is 6kw (8.2hp) continuous output rated assuming it is 80% efficient at continuous rating the fan would be required to move enough air through the motor housing to get rid of 1.5kw in heat ie (6/.8)-6=1.5. At peak rating we are looking at the fan dealing with over 4kw in heat.

I would like to see the 'computer fan' you have in mind. Not to mention that spindles in this power class run on 3phase 380v with line frequency at 300hz to give 18000rpm (no source of power for the fan at the spindle).

Jimmy007,

I'm certainly not suggesting that you use a 5" computer fan on some monster spindle!

Many Shopbotters have done the fan mod on their 2.25hp ones. Noise to someone running a SB in their basement is probably more critical than someone who has a 10hp head running in a shop...

If you are switching to an electric fan, or any of the liquid cooling mods, you need to have a laser thermometer at hand to make sure your temps remain inside spec. Also make sure you hook up the temp sensor from the spindle body to your VFD, so if (when?) the fan or water pump fails, your $$$ bearings will be protected!

I have been sent the holy grail of sh-cnc items: THE INSTRUCTION MANUALS!

You can see for yourself what you have to work with before you plunk down your cash.

These files are big and are in RAR compression format (right from the factory, don't blame me!). If you need WinRAR: http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm

http://plus.xdrive.com/u/1795364712/064399846gT7S2l2PeWvxSjFcKs8

They are in the folder marked sh-cnc.

Thanks for clearing that up VID.

How are the Shop Bot crew getting power to the fan? Do they run a dedicated feed? Have you got a link so that I may see the setup?

I doubt I will make the mod myself (noise isn't that big an issue) but I am curious.

Thanks for clearing that up VID.

How are the Shop Bot crew getting power to the fan? Do they run a dedicated feed? Have you got a link so that I may see the setup?

I doubt I will make the mod myself (noise isn't that big an issue) but I am curious.

You just run a 12V wire from the power supply.

If you guys are using Mach3, that would be the black (neg) and yellow (pos) wires off of any of the drive connectors in the computer.

Here are some pics that show the electric fan mod on top of the spindle:

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/329/646.html

rocket, didnt get the machine as planned on Friday (customs problems!!) It is however now cleared and due to be delivered on Tuesday, never thought I would lose sleep over a cnc machine. Will take plenty of pics.

About the mach 3 software, fantastic when it works fine. We use it on another cnc machine we have. I enquired about using mach3 when I bought the excitech router and they said for an extra sum (was around $400 I think) they can convert it to run with mach 3 but you lose the handheld dsp controller. I didnt go for this option just now but it can be upgraded later if need be :)

i would like to and will visit your shop again
its monday here in cola too!!

for everyone involved this ia a great thread and im glad we have stayed in there with it

i was able to obtain several quotes for the machines from both us and chinese sources

as it would turn out they are all within 500 to 1000 usd of each other

which means the chinese are protecting thier dealers pricing and yet still selling the machines to us customers

the chinese variation between us and other countries is a variable of 5%
when converted to current exchange rates

so if you can buy from a dealer i would. i can see why us dealers are looked at funny given some of the stuff that goes on here in the us but i would venture to bet that you are reading this on a computer with chinese parts

i am glad we are about to see some machines arrive and please for all of us photo the crating and all parts of the process

gotta go work back soon
cabnet

G`day all, I received an Email from Taney at sh-cnc late friday arvo to advise that he was about to send some documents.

DHL just delivered the documents. They included Insurance certificate, Bill of Lading and Export/Import papers, and info regarding receiving broker.

Yet another example of a professional and articulate business.

Taney, If you read this - Thanks mate.

Rocket.

when do you get machine
cabnet

Hi cabnet, Bill of Lading states ship due into Melbourne 7-9th December, then it will go onto train to Adelaide. After customs clearance it should arrive at our premises about 13th December.

Can`t wait to get it. Time seems to be dragging.

Any decisions yet on your choice of machine?

Rocket.

lots of plans and bids due out today was able to find some time to study
i think all of you will find this to be interesting reading

dont lose any sleep
http://www.globalspec.com/Supplier/ProductAnnouncements/Techno/

book is here on pdf
http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail/Techno/New_3rd_Edition_CNC_Catalog_Continues_Tradition/36800/1

cabnet

http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-ROUTER-5x10-Auto-Tool-Changer-Vacuum-Table-Servo_W0QQitemZ160184836771QQihZ006QQcategoryZ57122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

G`day Dougie, how ya goin mate!

Has your macine arrived as yet?


Rocket.

gota love e-bay...

guy sells bunch of $40 switches,,,then

guy sells $16,000 cnc.

this looks like that www.Motiontek.ca in toranto's machine.

USA citizens beware... read on that e-bay listing at the top.....

(CE certified, ULC certificate available for extra cost):confused:

in the USA a electrition will not hook up anything that is not UL listed.

My electrition said that a company had bought a 140K machine and it was not UL listed and they had to have a engenier come and certify it and stamp it for about $1,500.00 not bad on a 140K machine but add that to a 16K machine kinda sucks.(nuts)

he advertises vaccumm shindle and tool changer

but watch the fine print

cabnet

Rocket, WOW what can I say. The machine arrived about 4 hours ago, 2 hours taking the crate off the lorry. Make sure you have a very big forklift with extensions if you have ordered the 1325 model, it weighs more than what they mention all packed and is HUGE!!

Please bear with me for some pics I have yet to get home and download them.

After unwrapping everything the quality is absolutely top notch, am stunned actually just how solid and good it all looks + the chinese vac pump looks the business. Its going to be several days getting everything set up but if it works as planned you would have to be crazy to spend any more money than this.

One very happy customer :)

dougie lets rock

cabnet

Heres another thread regarding excitech machines,
Again a few posts deleted, lol.
Note the US sellers site mentioned halfway down page 2.
The guy seems keen for people to have a look the machines
so maybe helpful for local Wisconsin people to see the machines.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14665

Ive been told my SHG0609 machine will be in New Zealand this year! sweet!
Pretty confident it wont have plastic gears now, based
on some more recent posts. :)

Cheers
Lee

Dougie, This is great news. You must have been a bit nervous during those 2 hours. When our forklift lifts heavy loads off of trucks i can hear it struggle and i know that it is rated at 2 tonnes but i still panic everytime.
This info is most important to us all. It tells me that we had better hire a truck with a hi-ab ( truck mounted crane ).

You have just confirmed everything that Scott and Jimmy have written about these machines. I am so glad that you are thrilled with your purchase.

Thanks for taking the time to let us all know and we look forward to seeing your photos.

Good on ya mate!

Rocket.

G`day leef, I remember that you and howzat ordered your machines about the same time. howzat is expecting his machine late this week. If you check out " shipping schedules " on google, you will see that a lot of the ships from China go to New Zealand via Australia. Hopefully your machine is on the same ship that howzat`s was on, and you will have it soon.

That is the first time that i have read that thread that you put up. I wonder how TigerTec are going now. David sounds like a decent person so i hope he is doing well.

Carvinmarvin was the person who suggested that his machine had plastic gears. He seems to have disappeared since Scott and Jimmy posted their experiences with these machines. I still have no idea whether he had a genuine grievance or he was just trying to derail this thread.

I think that you have every reason to be very confident that you made a good choice of machine, and i hope that you and howzat post some photos of your routers and tell us all about your experiences with them.

Regards, Rocket.

i am close to my machine choice and saw your last thread

i had a long conversation with dave of tiger cnc today as well as another buyer for camaster today i strongly encouraged the new buyer to look seriously at doing business with camaster and i believe he is coming to look at it.

dave of www.tigertec.us and i have mutual friend and business contacts here in the us and he checks out fine some one needs to grab the tiger by the tail and market these things better websites referrals parts shown on line for purchase and readiliy available

some ones is going to do that and i believe the glenns of camaster are of just the right size to help the cabinetmaker or sign maker (dont you just love the trades) thanks
cabnet

joined this site on 11-15-07 posted seven times and all were related to this thread and its subject.

i would hate to think some one would really try to derail such an anonymus
opportunity with out any truth to his or her claims

i believe he acttually said he had the router at one point

but if it walks like a duck
cabnet

Hi cabnet, You are throwing a few curve balls.

Last night it looked like being Techno. Nearly bought one of these ourselves, but it just got too expensive for us in Australia. No doubt they are excellent machines.

My guess is that you will go with camaster? Probably due to the after sales support from Bill and Josh.

Have to go to work now. Back later.

Rocket.

no it never was techno
the reason for that was the techno book online it is full of good info and
there parts catalog is top notch

on the machine i will buy i have been approved to buy a machine as of today
and i have an oppurtunity to get a used machine from a source i know and trust well will give you guys all details once the "fat lady sings" i am selling some saws and equipment on ebay and bidding stops soon
cabnet

Got a reply from sh-cnc saying none of their gears are plastic on any of their routers. Looks like that poster was trying to get you to buy another brand....

let us in on photos
when you are ready
cabnet

vid1900, You can read carvinmarvin`s story on page7 post no. 78

Rocket.

G`day howzat, any news on the arrival of your machine?
What sort of things are you going to make with it?

I had a good look in another section of the forum which shows some good examples of things that people have made. It is in the Programming and Design area. Vectric software. Thread is titled " v carve gallery " by dighsx. Might be worth having a look at it if you have not seen it yet.

Rocket.

hope dougie did not let the machine fall on his foot!!
if i were him id be after it to.
looks like i've got a machine
and i'll tell you more when i finish transaction today

rocket here is thread on possibilitys
http://www.shopbottools.com/applications.htm

check this
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/17997/17997.html?1196216538
theres tons here
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/17997/19582.html?1175183479

that v carve thread was really cool

my wife has now sat here and seen what i am working on
and wants to learn the machine

so much for the myth of my online romance

rocket i think i feel like you did on the first post
that lead us all to this place

and to you i say thank you

cabnet

11 p.m. in Adelaide.
About lunchtime in U.K.

Top of the morning to you cabnet. We get to go to bed and you have to go to work! We love Australia!.

I would think that dougie is busy putting his machine together. He was probably very tired last night after a big day.

Had a quick look at the links that you put up, they look fantastic. Really opens your mind to the possibilities of things that we can make with our machines.

Glad to know that "the fat lady is about to sing" for you. Do the Shopbot links provide a clue?

Off to bed now, look forward to reading about your purchase in the morning.

Regards, Rocket.

no shop bot

get some sleep by the time you get up i'll be on my way to pick up machine
cabnet

Yes cabnet, it is sure a nice feeling to "take the plunge" and actually buy a machine.

It looks like you are going to have to allocate "work time" and "play time" on your machine. Is your wife an art and craft type person? Mine is.
Once they see the possibilities there will be no stopping them!

Can`t wait to get started.

Rocket.

Hi everyone. Ok, here are some pics of the excitech cnc router fresh off the truck. Mammoth task unloading it and I have yet to position it. The crate was bashed in when it arrived which got me slightly worried but fortunately everything was spot on. The orange forklift in the photo was picked up by the box (rather than the other way round) it was so heavy and just wasnt up to the job so I had to get the big guns in. Takes a bit cleaning all the anti rust grease off which is what the brown stuff on the gears is.

way to go

i have purchased a cnc and will post more about it soon

to bad rockets asleep

cabnet

Nice pics Dougie!

How about an electronics shot (when you get to that point), a shot of how the water cooling works, and those METAL gears?

Thanks for the great post!

Good on you Dougie, Those photos are superb!

That is some heavy duty packaging. I wonder if the crate may have been damaged by Customs. Perhaps they need to open the crate, although i know that they have x-ray equipment. Who knows.

The machine looks great and appears to be complete. I thought that maybe you would have to fit the gantry and spindle. I think that Jimmy mentioned that it is just a matter of connecting the vacuum pump and some electrical work.

How are you going to move it into position?

You have to hand it to the Chinese manufacturer - they certainly have their act together.

Thanks for the photos and i hope you keep taking them as you get it into position and begin to operate it.

Best of British to you.

Rocket.

Dougie, member bclark6716 gave some good advise about greasing the ballnuts.
There should be grease nipples on the ballnuts of the x and y ballscrews.
Brian recommended to give them an extra shot of grease to protect the bearings.

Rocket.

Cabnet, come on! Out with it man!

You are keeping us in suspense!

What did you buy?

Rocket.

cabnet, are you saying that the fat lady lost her voice?

Kustom, any decision on your machine yet?

Rocket.

Dougie, member bclark6716 gave some good advise about greasing the ballnuts.
There should be grease nipples on the ballnuts of the x and y ballscrews.
Brian recommended to give them an extra shot of grease to protect the bearings.

Rocket.

The X and Y on that machine looks like Rack and pinion to me.

Gerry, i guess that i am showing my inexperience again.

I did see grease nipples on Jimmy`s machine.

And i did suggest it would be comical.

Regards, Rocket

G`day howzat, any news on the arrival of your machine?
What sort of things are you going to make with it?

I had a good look in another section of the forum which shows some good examples of things that people have made. It is in the Programming and Design area. Vectric software. Thread is titled " v carve gallery " by dighsx. Might be worth having a look at it if you have not seen it yet.

Rocket.

I got an e-mail from the freight forwarders yesterday saying the machine should be available pickup from today, so now it just depends how quickly it will get freighted over the Strait. I'm still not expecting it before early next week, but would love to be pleasantly surprised :)

I'm still not sure exactly what will be making with it.. I've got lots of ideas, and am impressed with all of the examples that are available on the forums, but I'm trying not to get too far ahead of myself as we've got a fair bit of learning to do first. I think clocks and signs and plaques and the like will be the first things attempted.

Cheers

Hi everyone. Ok, here are some pics of the excitech cnc router fresh off the truck. Mammoth task unloading it and I have yet to position it. The crate was bashed in when it arrived which got me slightly worried but fortunately everything was spot on. The orange forklift in the photo was picked up by the box (rather than the other way round) it was so heavy and just wasnt up to the job so I had to get the big guns in. Takes a bit cleaning all the anti rust grease off which is what the brown stuff on the gears is.

Great pictures Dougie. Did you just use rags to get the grease off?

Still Undecided, I wonder the way the economy looks, why am I taking out another business loan? I really want one and think that any cnc will last a long time. I hope 20 years Plus. it just may be a bad time for me to buy. I would have a better cash flow scenario in april 2008. It is no question that all of us on here really want a cnc but how much more work can I bring in and get done. Remember I have no employees and have a current $53,000 annual Minimum Operating over head.

:confused:

Hi Kustom, I guess that only you can make the call.

Question is - If you buy a machine now is it going to make you money or just cost you money?

Rocket.

Well it will mostly cost me money. $475 Month for 5 years. In a sign shop setting it is not as much of the no brainer like it is for the cabinet and countertop guys.

If I had a productive cabinet or countertop shop business in place. Yes a cnc would eliminate Employees and overhead and head ackes for having employees. plus the accuracy and repetition would be greater and faster.

My problem is as only a sign shop I might use the machine for a couple hours a month. it would never run 8 to 12 HR a day. I don't even think I could charge for cnc stuff. If I sell a sign that has a contour cut to shape to it on the cnc. people will not pay a extra 50HR for cnc time. they would say that is part of the process of making the sign.

like wise If i bought cabinets or countertops from a guy who did it by hand tools for years them after some years he buys a cnc router, I like other people would expect the price to be the same or less because it is faster for him. This is how the sign business works I think it is the same for us all. people think we are here for there enjoyment. I would kinda like to make some money some day.

so to answer do I want a CNC.....100 times YES.

But back to reality Can I actually make any money or the payment on one?

I don't know. It is not that I am questioning any of the machines, programs or processes. I kinda don't know If by adding this much more payment and overhead will just be the final nail in my Coffin.

here it is
i bought a machine built by bill glenn about seven years ago
owned by a sign company who never put it to use its got a 5 hp spindle
10 hp vaccum all complete hooked up and running and i will drive to ky and get it on friday. i called josh glenn and he will be helping me upgrade software
or drivers if necessary. get this everyone involved said just use it and up grade later. yall it poped up on ebay with a ten day auction and a buy it now price of 12,500.00 i knew the spindle vaccum and table were worth it even if i upgrade motors and drivers.
bought it cash as like kustom said liquid is king with a election year coming in the us.
today was a good day sold two jobs one theater one kitchen and two new prospects coming next week im tired and have to drive home.
will catch up more when i eat and rest
cabnet

ps kustom theres a shopbot 4x8 prt upgradable at 700 to 1000.oo and they wanted 5500.00+/- it's in great shape and i was going to buy it its near greenville sc and i email photos if you want em dude this machine will never loose any more value

camaster has a forum that i hope we all will consider in future as source for tech info about these machines i know i'll be giving it a go as well as the friends i have made here

lets get routing

Wow that makes me not feel better. Right as I am getting cold feet about a purchase you post that your machine was bought from a SIGN SHOP who after 7 years never put a cnc to Profitable use.

that is a nice way of saying they failed with it.

I guess that I am not the only sign shop who may not be able to put a cnc to profitable use. That makes me sad, yet now I know that I had that gut feeling that maybe I can't profitably run a cnc in a sign shop setting.

If they failed with it. How can I make a go of it?

It is really different for Us signers it is just another tool to produce a sign that could have be done with sandblasting or vinyl. .

Life kinda sucks then we Die.

the router was bought by the father who plunkered with woodwork after retirement
he sold it to his son as part of the business as i understand
the son is running what looks to be a very good sign shop mostly vinyl wraps and subdivision signs will give you web sit e later

this router is just somthing the son did not have any interest in
cabnet

I want to be clear I AM NOT....talking about brand, size, spindel HP or any of that.

that does not matter to me anymore. I don't even know what I would buy anymore if I could.


I am just saying The idea of a CNC machine is giving me cold feet now. I might not be able to put it to use. reguardless of the NAME on it I don't care about names anymore. I thing that a cnc is a cnc. it only cuts what the opperator sends to it.

I just don't know If I will be able to produce and more, more profitable signs with one. that is all I am saying.

Well done cabnet - Congratulations.

You sure did keep the lid on this one!

Looks to have a very sturdy frame, and carriage. 5hp Spindle should give you plenty of power. 10HP vacuum pump should suck harder than a broke hook...... no forget that.

And the real good part is that you get to start routing real quick.

Well done!

Rocket

yea i m here and at home kieth i bought a glenn machine and may have question
today i asked josh to build me the drill like yours
any suggestions or experience cabnet
jimmcgrew

http://www.signfoam.com/gallery.html?mode=display&page=0
cabnet

photos marvin photos
i see you are here

Does your VAC pump have an inline filter to be fitted before the intake?

Mine came fitted to the pump.

I found several of the nipples on the z Axis ball nuts needed to be tightened slightly so that I could get a grease gun onto them.

You may like to check the glue used to fix the tool sensor holder to the spindle mounting plate- mine let go while routing almost ending in disaster (lucky I was close by).

What does your VAC holding tank look like?

I found that most of the hose clamps needed to be tightened which greatly improved the holding performance.

i am driving to kentucky to pick up my machine will photo process for moving one
i am watching you as set up is foundation that when done right hopefully will be the only time you have to do it

and i mean more than just the logistics of moving it. but more of software
turning it on and setup all the way thru to routing and cutting

just think in three months we'll all be carving our little butts off
and hopefully still married (lol):)

kustom is i believe going to see a cnc manufacturer today. i must say my first visit to one was a great and enlightning experience and by the time he gets a machine (and he will) he will have the purchasing, setup and operation experience of all of us.

i have been using forums for ten years to bolster my experience in my trade and others www.woodweb.com and my cabinetsoftware www.planit.com

this is abig step for my little group of guys. and actually one of the staid and hardest standouts came into the office and got involved with all we will be able to do, when i showed him carved door panels the wheels started rolling

most of my greatest accomplishments were not when things were good or the money flowed, but when it was bad and hard these are the times you get busy and creative.

someone once told me
"the time to grow is when things are bad, everything else was just to easy"
once when i was starring at a plie of wood and cabinets and a lousy set of plans my mentor walked over and said "it ain't smarter than you are"

kustom the best standard i have for my respect of another craftsman
is not whether he got in trouble or made a mistake (those things i expect)
but how he dealt with it.

do not and i repeat do not (and i feel you won't) move any faster than the will of circumstances, we are not that powerful

cabnet
thank you fellows, blokes, crickeys, bollocks or whatever you wish to be known as today
i am off to a good day whether it works that way or not is none of my business

Crikey cabnet, that was a very good post.

When somebody makes a statement like - He is a lucky bastard, my reply is - Yes, but it took a lot of work before he became lucky!

You are right. Those that have successful businesses all had to start somewhere. We have all been through hard times and persevered and worked our butts off to get somewhere. Then when you do get somewhere you still need to put in the long hours to stay there.

Kustom i have no idea how old or experienced you are. Your greatest assett in your business is yourself! If you need to put in the hard yards for a few years then so be it. But you need to have a well thought out PLAN in order to become successful. Whether you buy a cnc router this week or in 2 years time is not important. What is important is that you are able to generate cash flow and profit from the use of it. You seem to be reasonably intelligent and creative and not afraid of hard work. Therefore you are qualified to make a success of your business.
You sounded a bit depressed today. That is o.k. But get over it and get on with it. Identify your market, then work out a plan to put your creative talents in front of your potential customers. Too many people think that they can rent premises and hang a sign up and then the customers will magically appear at the front counter. You need to put yourself in front of your customers!

cabnet, you have already put in the hard yards and are embarking upon an exciting new phase in your manufacturing area with your cnc router.
You must be delighted that your production people are enthusiastic about it. I have no doubt that you will continue to make great cabinets with your router and do it a whole lot quicker.

Have a great trip and i know that you will be full of pride as you drive back home with your new router.

Regards, Rocket.

The greatest challenge was getting the router off the base of the crate, what we did was put a long length of strong wood across each corner diagonally then jack each end up using blocks of wood to raise it until it was off the base. A bit of jiggling and the base was free, then simply a case of using 2 pallet trucks to move into position.

Howzat: yeah used old rags and a bit of spray solvent to get the grease off, its more like a nasty wax really.

Jimmy: Yep the vacuum pump came with a black filter box right before the pump, the vac holding tank as far as I can see is a cheap mild steel one which has a light coating of red oxide on (as long as it does the job). Ok will check the tool sensor mount, looks like a funny tool sensor, not sure how it works yet. The manuals are a little bit lacking, at one point it tells you to spread butter on the gears hehe! Jimmy is there any chance you can give me the basic on how you start up the machine and get it moving? Im a bit anxious about the big switch on.

Cabnet: Good luck with the machine, looks like a beasty

will post up some more pics soon of the electronics and other bits, if anyone wants any specific pics let me know :)

Jimmy: I just went to check the tool sensor mount was secure and it fell of :D

Did you get the dust skirt and extractor with your machine? I forgot to get the dust skirt!!

are easy to make
get 3/8 or 1/2 inch us or 12mm russian birch

or even 1/4 inch clear plexi

for footprint then brush fibers from a concrete cleaning brush od architects table brush (usually available in an office or school supply store

there are lots of plans and photos for this cabnet

thanks cabnet, will prob try and make one out of the clear plexy then I can see what is going on with the tool :)

it ain't smarter than you are
cabnet

Hi! Look at the pictures cabinet posted of my machine. You could make the parts I made from plywood out of plexiglass instead. That way you could see everything. If I hadn't been desparate to get back running I might of thought a little more about it. The concrete brushes on the bottom work great. I made the one on the long side removeable to access the bits.

cabnets
congratulations on the purchase! You'll enjoy working with the Camaster guys.

Hey! The good thing is that they've already experimented on me and you'll get the 'new and improved' version. The bad thing is I'll be jealous(nuts)! Bill told me that in retrospect he could have used lighter aluminum. That would help with the weight. I haven't had any problem, it's just something to consider. How much is enough?

Glad you checked the sensor mount- you can imagine what would have happened when the spindle chuck got hold of it- LOL

To use the tool sensor is easy (although the instructiions dont make it clear).

In the setup menu on the controller you will find 'CAD Thickness'... Edit this value to be the actual thickness of the sensor (set and forget).

To use- place the sensor on top of your material, fast traverse the Z axis down so the tool tip is just above the sensor then press and hold the 'menu' and 'on/off' keys at the same time and the tool will slowly move so it just touches and then go back up. The machine will then store the Z=O value referenced to the top of your material.







Jimmy: I just went to check the tool sensor mount was secure and it fell of :D

Did you get the dust skirt and extractor with your machine? I forgot to get the dust skirt!!

Jimmy: I just went to check the tool sensor mount was secure and it fell of :D

Did you get the dust skirt and extractor with your machine? I forgot to get the dust skirt!!

The supplied dust skirt is rather useless- as is the arm supplied to mount the VAV hose above the table. The first time I ran my machine a large portion of the soft plastic curtain on the base of the pressed metal shoe was trimmed by the bit. I intend, in the first instance to replace the plastic with a brush and move to another solution if need be.

Dougie- your first machine test should be easy- the hand controller and or supplied memory stick will likely contain stored G Code files. These should be smallish releif engravings.

Turn machine on- contoller will say 'Go Home?' hit 'ok'. The head should end up parked in the front left. Use the axis +/- buttons to drive around the table, note there is high and low speed here (easy to see on keypad) and the machine will not automatically slow and stop when it approaches limits so go easy when you are approaching the edges.

Assuming you have files in the controller park the head towards the middle and press and hold XY ref button- this will set X,Y to 0 as your working axis. Without a tool in the chuck move Z down to about 100mm above the table and Zero Z.

Hit menu then load program- select one of the stored files and hit ok. Select ok to run and watch where the machine thinks its cutting. If it looks like it thinks it is doing a fairly shallow releif carving good- hit stop.

Find a peice of scrap, wack a small conical bit in the chuck move the Z axis so that the bit just kisses the material. Zero the Z ref and hit ok. Reload the program and run.

What CAM software do you intend to use? If its type three I can try and give you a head start.









The greatest challenge was getting the router off the base of the crate, what we did was put a long length of strong wood across each corner diagonally then jack each end up using blocks of wood to raise it until it was off the base. A bit of jiggling and the base was free, then simply a case of using 2 pallet trucks to move into position.

Howzat: yeah used old rags and a bit of spray solvent to get the grease off, its more like a nasty wax really.

Jimmy: Yep the vacuum pump came with a black filter box right before the pump, the vac holding tank as far as I can see is a cheap mild steel one which has a light coating of red oxide on (as long as it does the job). Ok will check the tool sensor mount, looks like a funny tool sensor, not sure how it works yet. The manuals are a little bit lacking, at one point it tells you to spread butter on the gears hehe! Jimmy is there any chance you can give me the basic on how you start up the machine and get it moving? Im a bit anxious about the big switch on.

Cabnet: Good luck with the machine, looks like a beasty

will post up some more pics soon of the electronics and other bits, if anyone wants any specific pics let me know :)

Great info Jimmy.

So is the machine smart enough to know where the limits of travel are, by counting motor steps? Is that the "soft limit" that is mentioned in the manual?

Great info Jimmy.

So is the machine smart enough to know where the limits of travel are, by counting motor steps? Is that the "soft limit" that is mentioned in the manual?

Yes, I'm sure the machine knows the limits when it is runninbg a program.

My warning related to moving the axis using the X,Y,Z +/- buttons on the controller. Problem is if you hold one of the buttons (and it moves FAST in high speed mode) the machine will hit the limit at full speed and with considerable force (I'm sure it will not do that many times before you break something).

tell us about your trip
am heading to kentucky today will take laptop

cabnet

thanks Jimmy

Got the machine up and running and all seems ok. Spent a good few hours
setting the DSP controller up and trying to get my head around it, its
seems quite complicated at first. The program which was already in the
controller ran fine, however when I loaded one of my existing g-code programs it just carried on going up in Z which is a bit odd seing as its only supposed to rapid to Z2.

Do you always have to set the program feeds and speeds parameters
it asks for prior to running a program? Surely it will be able to run everything
through the program.

I was previously using mastercam x, autocad and pro-engineer for the 3D stuff.

I have briefly looked at type 3 but the manual they sent is in chinese!! Ucancam seems ok but again not really had time to delve in with all the jobs on. Would prefer to stick with m/cam if poss. I must have 1000 programs existing and I dont fancy redoing them all.

Have you changed any settings on the frequency inverter?

Here are a few more pics of the machine

thanks Jimmy

Got the machine up and running and all seems ok. Spent a good few hours
setting the DSP controller up and trying to get my head around it, its
seems quite complicated at first. The program which was already in the
controller ran fine, however when I loaded one of my existing g-code programs it just carried on going up in Z which is a bit odd seing as its only supposed to rapid to Z2.

Do you always have to set the program feeds and speeds parameters
it asks for prior to running a program? Surely it will be able to run everything
through the program.

I was previously using mastercam x, autocad and pro-engineer for the 3D stuff.

I have briefly looked at type 3 but the manual they sent is in chinese!! Ucancam seems ok but again not really had time to delve in with all the jobs on. Would prefer to stick with m/cam if poss. I must have 1000 programs existing and I dont fancy redoing them all.

Have you changed any settings on the frequency inverter?

Here are a few more pics of the machine

You should be able to just 'OK' past the parameter screen when loading to run a program.

I haven't played with the inverter settings- no need yet and am following if 'if it works don't fiddle' plan untill I am more comfortable with everything.

I have the type 3 English manual that I could e-mail to you if you need it. I still use it for 2d as its quick and easy but have moved to RhinoCAM for 3d cutting.

Just looked at your wiring in the photo. You must have a fairly heavy single phase circuit available- machine only can pull 3kw without the spindle on. I notice you have what looks like brown to neutral terminal and blue to active (petty sure wiring rules on my side of the planet say brown is active).

I can see now you have the same pre-filter on the VAC pump and same VAC tank (looks like a recycled compressor cylinder).

Have fun!

pick up router today

dougie is that a laser in the background
cabnet

Jimmy I think I have seen the type 3 english manual on one of the cd`s that came with it. Im sure that mastercam would work with this, most different machines have minor differences in the g-coding to work correctly. It will likely be something simple.

Cabnet, yes thats a cnc laser cutter in the background. Got it about 4 months ago, great for cutting out acrylic letters and doing engraving work.

Dougie, this dialogue between yourself and Jimmy is fantastic. The photos are great also. This is the sort of info that newbies like myself have been looking for.

How did you and Jimmy overcome the problem with the tool sensor mount? Was it as simple as gluing it back on or can it be fixed more securely? Any chance of a photo of it?

Regarding your software, when i checked with vectric for suitability of v carve pro with the machine it was suggested to set up the software for g-code arcs mm. I don`t know if this might help you.


cabnet, are you back with your machine yet?

Rocket.

My trip thursday was good, but my banker is not happy.

He is not saying no to me but he wants to know how much more income a cnc machine will bring in.

I don't know how to show him what I think I can make with it.

G`day kustom, I had a look at your website this morning. You do some excellent work.

If you look in the section of this forum titled " programming and design " and then to the " vectric " sub forum ", see the "Gallery" section. There are some great looking signs. Perhaps you could download some of them and use them to formulate a comprehensive marketing plan for yourself and your bank manager.

Consider making a Brochure showing your window signs and the fancy routered signs. Put your prices on the Brochure! Distribute the Brochures to your potential buyers on a regular basis. When we first started in business we purchased a motor scooter which we were going to use to put our leaflets into the letterboxes of new home owners. But our marketing strategy was very successful from day one and we have not had a chance to use the scooter. So it sits gathering dust!

Bottom line is Plan, Plan, Plan! If you show your bank manager a great plan he may see things your way. If he does not approve it do not worry,
just make a Brochure showing your current work and start delivering them . Your business will increase in volume and you will soon be able to pay cash for your cnc router.

By the way - How about a quote to make some window signs for a couple of our Toyota Hi-Ace vans.

Rocket.

The thing is that I have increased my business over the last 5 years since I started. the amount of work I do is not his problem. he just wants to see more collateral from me. I pleged 13K from CD's and will give him the title to whatever assets I have here.

like I said it was not a NO WAY answer. it was a OK BUT, answer.

I have a sign shop who wants me to wholesale router for him at a average of 2 to 5 jobs a month at $400 average wholesale price that is $800 to $2000 additional income a month. easily making up the additional $430 this machine will add to my overhead.

Hopefully will get farther on it next week.

Cabnet.... you back with your machine yet?



also there was a question eariler on slaming limit switch stops.

From what I gathered thursday, everytime a machine with limit switches is turned on it is supost to home with soft touches. then it has the soft boundry limits so it would not slam into the ends how to set this I'm not sure.

How to set that and work that, I don't know but what I saw was the cnc came to the front left corner and slowly tap the limit switch twice then backed off. they clicked the Z Zero on the screen and were ready to go.

also on lettering what were you thinking? size wise?

The thing is that I have increased my business over the last 5 years since I started. the amount of work I do is not his problem. he just wants to see more collateral from me. I pleged 13K from CD's and will give him the title to whatever assets I have here.

like I said it was not a NO WAY answer. it was a OK BUT, answer.

I have a sign shop who wants me to wholesale router for him at a average of 2 to 5 jobs a month at $400 average wholesale price that is $800 to $2000 additional income a month. easily making up the additional $430 this machine will add to my overhead.

Hopefully will get farther on it next week.

Cabnet.... you back with your machine yet?



also there was a question eariler on slaming limit switch stops.

From what I gathered Thursday, everytime a machine with limit switches is turned on it is suposed to home with soft touches. then it has the soft boundry limits so it would not slam into the ends how to set this I'm not sure.

How to set that and work that, I don't know but what I saw was the cnc came to the front left corner and slowly tap the limit switch twice then backed off. they clicked the Z Zero on the screen and were ready to go.

also on lettering what were you thinking? size wise?

Yes, my 1325 Exitec (close relative of Dougie's) does in fact gently manouver itself into the front left corner coming to rest after gently touching the limit switches.

Problem is that by using the DSP keypad to directly control movement you have to be very careful that the machine does not try and injure itself- no soft stop when traversing using keypad!

OK yeah the machine I looked at I think was that way to. if you used the keyboard it would hit the limit switch fast.

Like I said I only saw one and got to kinda work with it for about 2 hours thursday so I am no expert on it, just sharing what I saw.

hey all i am in a hotel about an hour away from my machine will pick it up in am

kustom
"he who fails to plan is planning to fail"

i have already been approached by sign shops "when are yougetting the router" and that is not even in my revenue steam plan !!

ultimatly i paid for my machine but i too had a real big hassel with the banker and i am liquid go figure. given the current credit situation in us (read any us paper) as i am sure you are aware. they are closing loan and mortgage shops all over here in the south. so your banker is holding onto his job with his fingernails.

try going liquid on a partial loan to your self sell the jobs that while will not be dependent on the machine will ultimatly be the one's that paid for the machine

all of our tools were bought by jobs

i once had a large job which required dovetail drawers normally we would have used a table mounted porter cable jig i used the profit to buy a large automated powermatic dovetailer sure i pent it in one lump however
that machine has saved me all of its cost over the labor or out sorceing of those drawers and i got on cool dovetailer.

sometimes i have to move the trees so i can see the forest

cabnet

the excitec machine under two machine companys was spec'ed by wood digest magizine this month

the magazine is a major trade journel within the woodworking industry in the us

tommorrow i hop to return home via bill and josh glenns "camaster" and "cobra" shop in georgia

cabnet

banks colleteralize a loan because they dont understand the ucc collateral
in the machine it self

companies like northland capitol or nc in charlotte
of one of many others specialize in this

try woodworking cnc leasing in your search engine i got several contacts for this

deal is usually like this 10-15 percent down lease to own at 6-10 percent interest depending on credit worthiness 60-72 month loans with 1.00$
buyout at end of lease payments can run 400 to 5oo mo

if you would talk to a cpa you can write off the entire lease in this year or in any year for the payment cost

or 25.000.00 @ 30 percent +/- to irs
or 25.000.00 at 30 percent put into value in your pocket

G`day cabnet, Sounds like you must be a long way from home to pick up your new router. Hope it all goes smoothly and remember not to drop it on your feet.

Dovetail drawers.... We bought an Omec 750 semi-auto dovetail machine about a year ago, but we have been too busy to use it yet. The drawers that we currently use are the mitre fold vinyl wrap type. We buy them by the pallet load and go through a lot of drawers each week. We are not totally happy with the quality of the vinyl wrap drawers and the plan is to make our own out of 1/2 inch MDF Melamine. We have not even used the dovetailer yet and now the cnc router probably makes it obsolete! I am not very popular at work for purchasing the dovetailing machine.

Had a look at the wood digest site but cannot find the info about the Excitech machine.

Hope that you keep us informed of your progress with your machine.

Regards, Rocket.

it s a spec on mulitiple routers
camtech and another of our famous markrting named routers are there
so isshopbot techno and warthog
warthog was developed by bill glenn he built mine

we use 1/2 inch baltic birch edgebanded for our common drawer and solid wood on request
do you have blum hardware there look at meta box
check this
http://www.wooddigest.com/pdf/0207_cncrouters.pdf

i am 8 hors driving from home lunch travel in the us!!

remind me to tell you the texas irish joke

cabnet

We have not even used the dovetailer yet and now the cnc router probably makes it obsolete! I am not very popular at work for purchasing the dovetailing machine.

Hi rocket, how would you go about cutting dovetails on a cnc router?

check this
http://www.wooddigest.com/includes/google/return.jsp?cx=006549563401039901080%3Anzzkkvmnwcc&cof=FORID%3A9&client=pub-6572673426716164&channel=co-op_WoodDigest&sitesearch=wooddigest.com&q=cnc#1656


also EVIL KNIEVEL has passed away
i met him in daytona at dinner during daytona bike week (we'll talk harleys later) it was truley what i consider next to my dads advice one of the greatest experiences of my life (he said that my jumping motorcycles at ayoung age was the smartest thing i ever did) he further said "face everything and recover"
cabnet
experiences of my life


dude you can do anything on a cnc

G`day howzat, You can get software programmes that have what i believe is called " nested base manufacturing '. This type of program optimises the cutting of panels to ensure absolutely minimal wastage.
I have seen it used to make dovetail drawers. Check out the website for EnRouteWood software, from memory i have seen it there.
When we went to the Tassie "working with wood" show early this year we looked at the" Gifkin dovetail jig", not to buy one, but have you seen the fantastic dovetail joints you can make with his jig?

Cabnet, sure was sad news about "evil". I don`t know about " face everything and recover ". Maybe it is better to think in terms of self-preservation. How many broken bones did he have during his career?
He was certainly admired and respected by many people.

We have 2 robe installers who have Harley Davidson motor cycles, they look after them better than they look after their wives!

Rocket.

dude you can do anything on a cnc

But a lot of times, cnc is not the fastest way to do things.

And to do dovetail drawers, you need to mount one piece standing on edge on your machine.

But a lot of times, cnc is not the fastest way to do things.

And to do dovetail drawers, you need to mount one piece standing on edge on your machine.

You can cut dovetails flat on a mech, but not THROUGH dovetails:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Dovetail_DrawerBox_Joinery.html

vid1900, Thanks for that link - It makes for good reading for anyone that makes dovetail drawers. I was referring to 1/2 blind dovetails. The dilemna that we face if we use the dovetail machine is that we need to make 40-50 drawers per day which means having one more full time production worker making them. The flat packed vinyl wrap drawers only take a couple of minutes to assemble and so we can have them done in a couple of hours each day. Hopefully we can devise an efficient method to cut them out on the cnc router. Problem is that in our industry very few people would pay extra for dovetail drawers, so we need to find a compromise between higher quality drawers and the need to produce them at an economical price. LOL

Rocket.

You can cut dovetails flat on a mech, but not THROUGH dovetails:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Dovetail_DrawerBox_Joinery.html

Those are not even half blind dovetails. More of a cross between a half blind dovetail and a box joint, and they require a special router bit only available from Thermwood. I looked for a while, but couldn't find the bit for sale there.

Here's a link to the bit, if anyone's interested.
http://www.woodworkerswholesale.com/product_p/fsh1065.htm

got machine
felt like iwas srealing it he gave me all electronics, software, bits, computer

colombo spindle vaccum pump

so heres the deal while rolling the machine out and while hooked to crane we had to roll it (its got transfer wheels) it rooled forward on about 3 feet down grade to boom truck caught my arm between truck got nasty 2 inch cut on arm (no broken bones or muscle) oh and i was not trying to play hero and save machine!!!

trip to hospital stiches and am to tired and medicated to drive home so still in hotel in tenn

any way machine is virtually brand new been sitting in a sucessful shop they were very accomplished at what they do they run three businesses signs
trophys and frame shop from multiple locations

further i made a great friend here in kentucky

they bassically bought buildings and business from father and the router was just here in a corner. rare but i feel lucky

machine will need upgrade of software and motors ( control software was dos based) and i will begin to study what to do about this but for tonight it is wrapped up in strech wrap and my arm is hurting as aneshetic is wearing off

so i'll post more tommorow after getting home dougie that thing is a lot heavier than it looks.

cabnet

photos

oh an dougie it has a plexi glass foot i post photo tommorrow

it even came with an extra one

cabnet

Gerry, Thanks for that link.
I know that they are not true dovetail joints, but i hope that we can cut out our drawers on the cnc as it may be possible to make some significant labour savings.

You seem to be of the opinion that the dovetail machine is better suited to this purpose?

Rocket.

cabnet, your cnc router looks great.

Sorry to read about your mishap. Hope that your arm does not give you too much trouble. Maybe a couple of shots of scotch might ease the pain tonight.

Like your rig too. You Americans sure like big utes!

Are you going to drop thr router off at camaster on the way back so that they can do the upgrades, or use it as is for the time being?

Congratulations. Looks like you got yourself a bargain!


Rocket.

i was going there today

i need to get home after this small infraction on my arm

will look into upgrade

i was just reading thread involving concept machine who is also watching this thread i am going to look into this.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=307399#post307399
cabnet

You seem to be of the opinion that the dovetail machine is better suited to this purpose?

Rocket.
That really depends on your business. I can't tell you what's better for you.