Ok guys, I'm seriously thinking about going with the "Rockcliff" large flying gantry model (36 x 24) with 288 oz stepper motors. I've asked some questions of Rockcliff and Nick was very quick to respond. Has anyone built the large flying gantry model yet? How does it do and what (if any) suggestions do you have?

I want to do cabinet doors, signs, and just basically play.

Thanks

I'd want to see it already built. Looks like Rockcliff only has plans of that one.. doesn't look as though it's been built at this point. The small machine looks a bit wimpy with the rail design. But the Large one says "fully supported" so it might be better. I would not want to be a guinea pig though.

It really surprises me that this question keeps getting asked and the answer seems always to be "no." I am not sure why not even Nick has built one. It seems to me that you should build at least once a machine you sell plans for. Nick is great, so this isn't really criticism. Still, the flying gantry plan has been up for months and not one has been built.

My message to Nick is, "we don't want to be guinea pigs. Please build one and show us your results." We want to see your supported rails at work and get a sense of your accuracy, cost, etc.

What! no one want's to be the first, where's your sense of adventure?


I am actually starting one this weekend, it's been on my to do list for a couple of months, and kept getting pushed back, everything to build it, is in a small pile on my bench, so it will not take too long, and I just received dumpstercnc's new 3/8-10 nuts and couplings today and will be using them for the machine I am not sure mine will be the first one built, as there has been a few who claimed to be building one? but your correct no pictures or feedback to date? I should have some pics posted in a couple of days. The slide design although not yet assembled into a machine, have actually been made and cut tested, under a bridgeport vertical mill, with good results, the slides show they are a few times stronger / rigid then an unsopprted rail, and will support about 100lbs of load, which is acceptable for an MDF / Wood / linear bearing, so I am not expecting too many issues.
Nick
www.rockcliffmachine.com (http://www.rockcliffmachine.com)

Waiting to see!

Since my last post (seems like an eon), I too have had a couple of setbacks. I acquired a Model T Ford that requires a total rebuild. Haven't put too much time into it yet, but it does beckon me. I am in the process of putting in electricity, insulation and interior walls in the garage so I can work this winter. With good news and photos (CarveOne..) I may start sooner than later!!!!

Here's a picture from Saturday

http://www.rockcliffmachine.com/fg1.jpg

The machine is ready to do some repeatabilty tests, then some trial cuts,
I will post a few updated pics today or tommorrow, and will add detailed build photos to our yahoo group for any who are interested.

Nick
www.rockcliffmachine.com (http://www.rockcliffmachine.com)

Nick,

That is basically EXACTLY the machine I want to build. One question, though. It would seem that having PERFECTLY parallel rails would be critical to keep the shuttle bearing from binding up. Has that been a problem? I assume you used your other machines for the parts, but unless you are selling kits I'm going to have to do it with regular hand tools. Has getting the rails parallel been a problem? Is there an adjustment built into the system?

Thanks,

I am not sure PERFECTLY, is a word that could apply to a DIY machine made from MDF, but you can get them close enough :) If they are built in the correct assembly order, it works out good, the slides are actually pre-loaded to zero clearance.

Yes there are simple adjustment provisions for the runner blocks, and
everything on this machine exept for the 4 motor mounts, were cut old school with manual woodworking tools, table saw and table router, I do not think it could be made better any other way. Home Depot offers free cuts with their large panel saw when you buy wood from them, which is a great option for people too.


it's alive
Picture of 3/4" thick wood Nema 23 motor mounts cutting on Rockcliff Flying gantry
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com/fg2.jpg





www.rockcliffmachine.com (http://www.rockcliffmachine.com)

How in the cat hair are you supposed to order a password? I see no referance to payment of cash out on the web site!!

armyliferarmy,

Hurry up and finish that garage improvement and get started on building this thing! This design looks good to me. It should work out well for you. The Model T will take much longer to restore and it can wait.

CarveOne

I purchase the plans from ebay. And they emailed me a password. Decent plasns it looks like. There could be more info on setting it up though.

Oh yes. Nick, One problem I did have with the rockliff plans were the jpegs were mostly thumnail size. It would have been nice to have larger images. I'm a pretty visual person, and images really would help.

Well, they certainly aren't interested in business, I posted here and e-mail to the addy listed on the web site.

I got zilch!

I gotta figure the product matches or else they'd support sales.
Nuts, I'll draw up my own and keep my money!

Well, they certainly aren't interested in business, I posted here and e-mail to the addy listed on the web site.

I got zilch!

I gotta figure the product matches or else they'd support sales.
Nuts, I'll draw up my own and keep my money!


Well I can't imagine what your problem is. The page is very clear for ordering and the support is about the best I have seen. I just bought my Mach license through them and with in 5 minutes of ordering I had a note from them they had received the order. They have a dedicated support group for plan buyers.

I got my key to unlock the plans in about 10 minutes. Nick has been great about answering questions and the plans are very good. He has posted updates since I bought and they are available on the group once you purchase. Others have answered questions for me from the group. I'm impressed with their service.

John

OK Nick, We need more photos since you've had ton's of time to run this thing through it's paces.

We need pix, specs, Lessons Learned, etc...etc....

Any update on this model? I'm very interested in it.

Looked at the Website. When will the plans for the Lathe be ready. It seems like 8 months that I ahve been seeing the shortly message.

Hello all, first of all I would like to say this forum is a wealth of information for a newbie like myself. I have spent quite a bit of time so far educating myself on the subject. I purchased the Mach3 S/W and plans from Rockcliff last month and decided to build the flying gantry D-model. I really like the larger design as I will be making signs. I have a few questions regarding this design. I want to upscale it to 36" x 72", will the 270 oz in. motors work for a machine of this size? And....what is the correct way to wire the two Y-Axis motors? A driver card for each or wired in parallel? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards
Soldier1968

Hi to all this is my first post. I'm in the process og building the "d" model gantry type. New to all this but I have an engineering background. Retired now with more projects on the go than I really need. No doubt I will be asking questions very soon.
skyburt:D

I am currently building the D model, modified slightly, to handle 24 x 44 inch sheets. I am using inverted steel angles and skate bearings for slides. Seems to be solid with no binding or sloop. I am also using the rockcliff contoller and power supply. My question is with dual x axis lead screw motors will wiring in parallel (sp) pull to many amps thru the x axis contoller?

Hi All!
Let's put this question to rest. I built the flying gantry system. As a home-hobby system, it works fine. For any serious work, you will need to make modifications to suit your needs. That is 'par for the course' with any set of plans or designs that you may work with.
On the plus side, support from Rockcliff is excellent. Repeat: their support is excellent, and also very quick.
About their 4-axis drivers: I fried 2 of them before I moved up to a Gecko G540. I don't think it was Rockcliff's fault. My motors exceed the specs for the driver. They were very helpfull and are willing to check out my drivers to see if they can be repaired (for a nominal fee, of course, but it's cheaper than buying new drivers, and it wasn't their fault the drivers got fried.. I still need to send them the damaged driver boards.) Again, their support on this matter was excellent. Any questions I had they were very helpful, even on setting up the system and wiring my motors.
I uploaded some pictures of my Rockcliff Flying Gantry. You can see it has been heavily modified, but I still love the simplicity and logic of the basic design. I plan on building 2 more!
Some of the mods and info about my system:
-I used a dual ball bearing setup instead of just inserting the end of the drive-screw thru a hole in the MDF. I forget which motor company it was (Vestax?) but they had a page describ8ing the different methods of setting up your lead screws and a double bearing setup was needed to cut the amount of lead-screw whip. I originally had just a single bearing setup, but after switching to the double bearing, the improvement was highly noticeable. Thrust bearings installed all over.
-You will notice in the photos I have screws and bolts holding everything together. MDF is weak. I sought to strengthen it any way possible.
-One of my first attempts, the rails for the Y axis warped. I attached 3/4 inch square tubing to prevent that from happening again. The strips holding the steel rails are maple. After a router burnt out and tore the wood off the table, the Y axis got bent again. Like I said earlier, MDF is weak.
-I had a local metal shop weld up 2 right angle brackets so my gantry was always solid with no swaying motion due to torque and hard direction changes. If you do this, have the part built. Do not use angle iron because it is not perfectly at 90 degrees.
-The Z axis is from ModularCNC. I liked the accuracy and performance of this axis on my desktop model purchased from them (you might be able to see it in the background of one of the pictures) that I used it in this CNC model.
-You can see the 'temporary' setup of the G540 and electronics. You can also see one of the wire tracks I will be installing soon.
-Behind the Z axis is a strip of wood to eliminate some of the movement in the Z axis created from the torque of the router, especially when working with hardwoods.
-My motors:
--Z axis - Oriental @ 240 oz/inch.
--Y axis - Keling @ 495 oz/inch
-- X axis - 2 @ Keling 425 oz/inch.
--Motor mounts from Modular CNC.
-Dumpster CNC anti-backlash lead-nuts (sent one to ModularCNC and they installed it at no extra charge)
-Acme lead screws on all axis - Single Start - 10tpi
- Software: Mach3, Vectric Cut2D, Vectric PhotoVCarve, MastercamX3, Solidworks 2009.
-Router is a Ryobi1 1/2 hp. I kept burning up the smaller trim routers.

Performance - With the modifications, I am currently cutting hardwoods at 40 inches per minute (according to the Mach3 software.) I am sure I can run the machine faster, but it is not necessary. I have run rapids in excess of 100 inches per minute, but, seriously, can you safely cut wood at that speed? How many inches per minute are you routing by hand? It's not a matter of how fast the machine can run, but, rather, how fast should you be cutting the wood.

Well, that was a real mouthful! Hope that helps someone.
Bottom line: The plans are very good and very accurate but, once you have built the machine and learn how everything works together, you will probably want to make modifications to suit your needs.

More images that did not post the first time around!

I have run rapids in excess of 100 inches per minute, but, seriously, can you safely cut wood at that speed?



Big commercial routers can cut over 2000 ipm, so yes, you can. :)


I have run rapids in excess of 100 inches per minute, but, seriously, can you safely cut wood at that speed? How many inches per minute are you routing by hand?


With my router table, or with bearing guided bits, probably between 150 and 300ipm. Say you want to use a bearing guided 1/8" roundover bit to put a round edge on an 8 ft board. Using a laminate trimmer, I'd do this by hand in about 15 seconds. That's almost 400ipm.


It's not a matter of how fast the machine can run, but, rather, how fast should you be cutting the wood.


For optimum toool life, you really want to cut as fast as possible, as long as the quality of the cut doesn't deteriorate.

I am currently building the D model, modified slightly, to handle 24 x 44 inch sheets. I am using inverted steel angles and skate bearings for slides. Seems to be solid with no binding or sloop. I am also using the rockcliff contoller and power supply. My question is with dual x axis lead screw motors will wiring in parallel (sp) pull to many amps thru the x axis contoller?

Hi Dart 19,

I am going to be building the D model very soon and I was wondering the same thing. Rockcliff actually helped me out on this so I can't take credit for it. I have already ordered and received my 4 axis driver and motor kit from Rockcliff and have tested the electrical parts. There is actually an option in Mach 3 called slaving which basically send the same step commands to 2 axis outputs at the same time so you end up with 2 motors that move perfectly synchronized to each other. For my dual X axis motors I am planning on using the X axis and A axis from the driver board to drive the 2 motors. If you search for slaving in the Mach3 manual you will see how to set it up. It is really simple. Hopefully you get this before you connect 2 motors to the same output from the driver board.

Hi Dart 19,

I am going to be building the D model very soon and I was wondering the same thing. Rockcliff actually helped me out on this so I can't take credit for it. I have already ordered and received my 4 axis driver and motor kit from Rockcliff and have tested the electrical parts. There is actually an option in Mach 3 called slaving which basically send the same step commands to 2 axis outputs at the same time so you end up with 2 motors that move perfectly synchronized to each other. For my dual X axis motors I am planning on using the X axis and A axis from the driver board to drive the 2 motors. If you search for slaving in the Mach3 manual you will see how to set it up. It is really simple. Hopefully you get this before you connect 2 motors to the same output from the driver board.
I have built the "D" model and slaved the "A' axis off the "Y" and it woks fine. The support I have had from Rockcliff has been 1ST class. This is the first machine I have built and completely new to CNC. So the help I got from Nick at Rockcliff is very much appreciated