I recently invested in an SX3 CNC, from Syil UK, to compliment my large, homegrown CNC router/mill. After delivery I painstakingly dismantled it, cleaned it and lapped the ways and everything moves just fine. I set up Mach3 to cater for mm rather than inches and was most impressed that everything worked first time. However, after approximately ten minutes the steppers get too hot to handle and a bit later all the motors start jittering and the yellow LEDs on the drives all light up.

I believe, from another post, that the yellow LEDs indicate overheating and that is without the control panel being connected to the machine. If this is what is happening, how can I avoid it? Is it something to do with running it from 240v?

Also, my motor conrol board does not have a jumper on it for setting the correct speed yet the version of board seems to be a later one than the instructions show. Does the new board not require a jumper setting?

It is a good looking machine and seems to work just fine but if I can get no more than ten minutes out of it, it's worthless to me. Any ideas?

Mike

Hello Mike.

I've had my UK SX3 for a couple of months now and have noticed the steppers getting warm but not to hot to handle, I've run mine with no probs for periods over 1hr.

I've been advised to run mine on 110v after replacing the spindle control board, the board has a relay which prefers 110v and I'm told several in the UK have failed.

You say you've set up Mach3 to use mm's? I'm not that familiar with Mach3 (yet) to guess that your problem may be related to this but I use the profile for mm's available on the Syil Australia website. If you can't find it send an e.mail to mick@<<furyproducts>>.co.uk (lose the << >>) and I'll forward a copy.

Try it with this profile in a clean install of Mach3 to see if they still overheat.

I haven't yet looked for the speed jumper as access to the rear of my machine requires a small child with good gymnastic skills but having fitted the spindle upgrade it certainly does not register the correct speed. Is your board marked with a version number?

Good luck.

It is possible that steppers are getting more amperage than it should. Have you looked at amerage reading from the control board?

Babba,

I have noticed your posts on the Zone concerning the SX3 - I have no problems with Mach as I use it on my homebuilt machine and Mach is working just fine. I am pretty sure it has something to do with operating at 240v but as I am electrically challenged, I don't have a clue as to where to start looking.

Jinu117 - As above, I read somewhere else that someone was complaining of extremely hot steppers and they turned down the amps but there was no clue as to how to achieve it. If someone can point me in the right direction, I will give it a go. I appreciate that steppers can and do run fairly hot but my main problem is probably with the stepper drivers overheating rather than the motors themselves. My first post explains that the yellow, overheating LED lights up on all the drives after about ten minutes - not all at once but one fairly closely following the others. This would suggest to me that something is not quite right with the supply but what, I don't know.

Mike

Mike

I have one of the early Syil converted X3s. I am presuming they are still using the same drives.

There is a setting on the dip switches to set up "Auto Half Current" (that's what it's called in the manual :))

This reduces the current to the motors when they are idle for more than a predetermined time.

I have this set on mine and they never get more than warm.

I would be checking what voltage is being supplied from the power supply. Mine is 48 volts.

Then there is the issue of the amperage setting on the drives. This is adjusted via a trimpot. Shouls be set to 3 amps.

However the manual says nothing about this. Just that it is set with the trimpot. No procedure or test point or anything.

I asked Syil so many times for some info on this that I gave up in the end.

They just either ignored my requests or resent the manual which says nothing. I believe they just don't know. Or didn't at that time anyway.

This is a thread in which I sought help from the gurus. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24011

In the end I just put my multimeter set to read amps in series with one motor winding, then microstepped till it read highest (full step) and adjusted the trimpot till it read 2.8 amps.

Now this is all just so much waffle if you do not have the same drives as I do but I think it is likely that you do.

Here is a pic. Not great but the only one I have.

Greg

Babba,

I have noticed your posts on the Zone concerning the SX3 - I have no problems with Mach as I use it on my homebuilt machine and Mach is working just fine. I am pretty sure it has something to do with operating at 240v but as I am electrically challenged, I don't have a clue as to where to start looking.



Just thought maybe steps/motor tuning or something else in Mach3 may be overworking the motors. Let us know when you solve it.

Adjusting the amperage on the newer drivers should be part of the setting up - the juddering of the motors is a symptom that the factory setting is incorrect.
Switch off - remove the green cable from one of the drivers, connect a multimeter in series (one meter terminal in the green cable's terminal and t'other connected to the green cable - for those, like me, electronically illiterate!) Switch on and the reading needs to be 3 amps but probably isn't.
The adjustment is made by the small pot.adjuster on the same front surface of the driver - turn it until the reading is correct. Then repeat for the other drivers.
For UK SX3 owners - we are working on a fix for the circuit board problem which will either mean an upgrade of the relay on the board, or installing a small transformer to supply the display separately which seems to do the trick.
I am amazed that Sieg have not sorted this out as yet, and seem content to just supply circuit boards, one after the other. Syil (China) are brilliant at supplying whatever parts are required.

Hugh

Greg,

Thanks for the response - I will look for the half current setting and check on the amps. Hugh has given a simpler method of checking this by just putting an ammeter between the green wire from the drive and the drive itself - see his reply.

Hugh,

Thanks for the quick replies both here and by PM. I'll get onto that
right away and report back.

Greg (Greolt) from CNCZone mentioned a setting that reduces current by half
when axis is idling. Is this setting still available and if so, how is it
set? I must say that the manual, on the CD you sent, seems a little lacking
in detail and it is these small, frustrating things that are most annoying
when trying to track them down.

Overall, very pleased with the machine so far and once I get these little
niggles sorted, it will be a beast :-)

Mike

Right, tried setting the amperage from the drives but found it difficult to get a steady reading on the meter. If I jogged the axis one way, I got something like -1.7A then jog it the other way and got +3.12A. These numbers were pretty repeatable so I took the highest and adjusted it to read more or less 3A.

Some of the drives were well under 3A so I am thinking that hot steppers is not an issue. However some fifteen minutes into the session and the motors started twitching and every time the centre, yellow LED on each of the drives blinked, it was accompanied by a motor twitch. After a very short period one of the yellow LEDs lit permanently and all drives were lost.

This is definitely looking like a drive issue not a stepper issue - the drives are simply overheating. What is the specification for the power supply? Is there something that should be changed if operating from 240v? Do I have to get a 110v transformer?

I notice that the breakout board has its own 240v - 12v transformer - would this still work OK if I was powering the whole lot from 110v?

Mike

Hello everybody,
I am a french user of the syil SX3 cnc kit and as some of you I have troubles with stepper drivers and spindle upgrade board.
the syil's documentation is quite poor on the electronics part of their kit.
This post only to point out ( specially to Greg - "greolt" ) that a very good source of informations on the web site http://koeiners.nl is no more available (unfortunately the site is not active since months)
Best regards.
Philippe Baudot

Right, tried setting the amperage from the drives but found it difficult to get a steady reading on the meter. If I jogged the axis one way, I got something like -1.7A then jog it the other way and got +3.12A. These numbers were pretty repeatable so I took the highest and adjusted it to read more or less 3A.

Some of the drives were well under 3A so I am thinking that hot steppers is not an issue. However some fifteen minutes into the session and the motors started twitching and every time the centre, yellow LED on each of the drives blinked, it was accompanied by a motor twitch. After a very short period one of the yellow LEDs lit permanently and all drives were lost.

This is definitely looking like a drive issue not a stepper issue - the drives are simply overheating. What is the specification for the power supply? Is there something that should be changed if operating from 240v? Do I have to get a 110v transformer?

I notice that the breakout board has its own 240v - 12v transformer - would this still work OK if I was powering the whole lot from 110v?

Mike

Hi Mike,

It sounds to me that something is over heating. When you say your steppers are getting hot, how hot is hot? They are probably rated to a max of around 80-100 degrees C (coil temperature NOT case temperature). I have stepper motors that get too hot to touch for more than a few seconds and when measuring the case are 60 degrees C so about their max. If you keep running them hotter than they should be they will start to permanently loose power.

Doesn’t the current to the drives vary depending on the load on the stepper motor? Have you tried touching the drives after they fault (power disconnected)? The case should be no more than just warm.

John

John,

I am now sure it is the drives that are over heating. At the point where they fail, and the yellow LED is permanently lit, the drives are quite warm and you can feel the heat radiating from them. They are nowhere near as hot as the steppers. My homebuilt machine has servos driven by Geckos and they, nor the servo motors, even get warm to touch so I was quite surprised just how much heat was generated by the Syil machine.

I don't think it has anything to do with load on the steppers as I have tried switching the machine on and not moving any of the axes and after a time the drives overheat and fault.

Mike

I know stepper get hot faster if not moving but don’t know the ins and outs of it. So maybe the drives will also. Hopefully an EE will jump in and help sort you out if Syil doesn’t get there first. If the drives do have current reduction then obviously that will help with stepper heating and maybe drives also.

I know how frustrating it can be trouble shooting CNC machines and I’m sorry I can’t help more but I wish you luck with a speedy resolution.

John

Thanks John.

I have got Hugh from SyilUK and Richard from Syil America on the case so I am hoping it won't be too long before they can come up with a solution. Love the machine could just do without this annoyance as there are plenty of satisfied users out there.

Mike

Greg (Greolt) from CNCZone mentioned a setting that reduces current by half
when axis is idling. Is this setting still available and if so, how is it
set?
Mike


Mike do you have a manual for the drivers ?

I know they don't give much info but it does mention Auto Half Current mode.

If you don't have it here is a link to where I have posted it for you.

http://web.aanet.com.au/greolt/CNCstppermotordriver.pdf

This is the relevant bit anyway taken from the PDF.

Auto half current set:
This driver contain the auto half current function. the output current of the driver will
automatically decline to half if the stepper pulse pause over than 0.3s. When the next pulse come,
the current will recover to the pre set value. This function can depress the thermal value both of
the driver and stepper motor. When the drive current is in half state, the lock moment of force will
come down too. In some apply situation, this is not permitted. So user can disable the function.

auto half current function s1 (dip switch No 1)
able OFF
disable ON


NOTE:
The auto half current function is a real-time function. So user can set it when the driver is
working.
You wrote........

tried setting the amperage from the drives but found it difficult to get a steady reading on the meter. If I jogged the axis one way, I got something like -1.7A then jog it the other way and got +3.12A. These numbers were pretty repeatable so I took the highest and adjusted it to read more or less 3A.
The way you have done it is just up to luck whether the reading is correct or not.


Because we have microstepping you must jog to the next full step before the reading on the meter is correct.

Set jog to incremental, and step size to whatever works out to be one microstep.

For me that is 0.0025mm. I have 400 steps per mm, 1/10th microstep. Yours may be different.

Then with the meter hooked up as before, incrementaly step and you will see the amps reading change with every step.

When it reaches its peak this should then be a full step. Set this to 3 amps.

Regarding the drivers tripping out,

Are you sure the voltage being supplied to the drivers is not too high? Have you checked it?

They have a max rating of 60v

The manual also says this,

"When the power supply is lower than 30V, or the temperature of the shell is over than 80?, the driver will shut down automatically and the fault LED will light."

Greg

Greg,

Thanks, the PDF is very useful and it looks like the same drives. I will try the half current setting later this evening. However, I am sure it ought to be possible to use the machine without having to resort to these measures and Syil UK and Syil America are looking at the problem. With so many machines now in countries where 240v is the norm, you would have thought that Syil would have come up with a proper solution by now. HOW ABOUT IT, SYIL!!

I am reluctant to resort to the 110v transformer as mentioned by Babba but I suppose if nothing is resolved soon, I may just have to :(

It is strange that Syil will continue supply replacement units for those that prove to be not up to the job, without actually tackling the problem at source. Having said that, it is to their credit that they do at least accept there are problems.

Hugh of Syil UK has an electronics engineer on the case now so hopefully I will have some more promising news soon.

Mike

Edit: Greg, Forgot to mention I will also try your method of reading the amperage of the drives - seems very logical, cheers.

Greg,

I found the switches to reduce the amperage and this worked like a charm. The fourth axis which does not move at all during the testing remained cool, slightly warm but much cooler than before. I managed to get three quarters of an hour out of the machine before it started faulting again :(

I also checked all the drive amperage again, using your technique and all checked out OK. So, it looks like it's down to Syil now to sort something out for me.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

Mike

Mike

What was the voltage being supplied to the drivers from the supply?

Strongly recommend you monitor while running a job to see if it is doing something strange.

The switchmode supply in mine blew up for no apparent reason. There a bit suspect quality wise I think.

Replaced it with a linear supply. Much happier with that anyway.

Greg

Greg,

Voltage to all drives is 47.6v - I was told by Syil UK that they should be about 48v so I think that is pretty close.

I cannot run a job at the moment because the machine faults out before it gets a chance to make chips. I really need to get this overheating problem sorted before I attempt to actually machine something. At the moment, the whole of the control electronics box is detached from the machine so that I can see what is going on. If it were attached things would be even worse, in a more confined space as there is no fan to aid cooling.

I am assuming the machine should run fine without any forced cooling but it may be prudent to add a cooling fan at some time.

Mike

PS Do you run at 240v in Oz?

I think I may be onto something.

Today, I phoned Hugh at Syil UK and we discussed the problem. There did not seem to be much more I could do to track down the problem as all the voltage and amperage readings were well within range but the problem of the drives overheating persisted. During the conversation I mentioned that the PSU, the silver box at the bottom of the first picture, got quite warm and with it being below the drives then convection would mean the drives being heated from the PSU. I suggested to Hugh that I could try removing the PSU and then run the machine to see if there was any difference. I also pointed out that there was no cooling fan in the system and once it was all bolted together, the problem would be even worse.

The PSU was very easy to remove - just four small screws. If you look at the second picture you will notice that there is indeed a fan built into the PSU and the label in the third picture says it operates when the temperature of the PSU rises. Now the revelation...... the PSU was mounted with the fan pointing directly at the drives and blowing the hot air over them!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I don't know is whether the PSU should have been mounted up the other way, with the fan at the bottom or whether the fan should have been sucking cool air into the PSU and over the drives. I'm sure either case would be better than the way it was.

I ran the machine constantly for more than two hours without even a flicker from the drives. I used one of the Mach wizards and set up a 300mm x 150mm x 15mm rectangular pocket using a 5mm cutter, 50% stepover and 0.25mm per pass. This file would take hours to run at 500mm per minute. After an hour I got fed up and changed it to a circular pocket to exercise the steppers even more - besides which, it makes a much better noise :) I was only cutting fresh air but the proof was there as plain as anything.

What I need to know now is: Which way up should the PSU be? and, Is there any reason why the PSU should be getting so hot? Incidentally, the fan did not run continuously but cut in for about thirty seconds at a time evry couple of minutes or so. This would suggest that the PSU is probably working within its limits wouldn't it?

To be honest, it would not be too difficult to mount the PSU externally and put a decent fan inside the enclosure, with the drives.

I hope this is some help for others too. A good machine is beginning to look a great deal better :) :)

Mike

It does look quite packed in there. I know there are only a couple of pictures but I don't see any air intake and exhaust points in the enclosure. Moving warm air around the place isn't exactly a great cooling system.

Beside any natural gaps, are there any air intakes/exhausts in the metalwork?

iGG1e,

Yes, it is a little packed but there is evidence of some attempt to provide a route for airflow though it is perhaps less than ideal. If you look at the first picture, it shows the bottom of the controller box which is made from perforated steel. The bottom of the box is only about 25mm from the top of the workbench when everything is together. The outlet, shown in the second picture, is even less adequate. It is in the top of the whole machine and the louvres have a mesh over the inside, reducing the airflow even more.

I am sure the problem is not insurmountable and perhaps Syil can take note and provide better inlets and outlets along with some decent cooling fans. This would not be a huge expense and well worth the extra effort.

By the way, I did not mention in my previous post that the drives were quite cool to the touch even after the grilling I gave the drives for over two hours solid.

Mike

Mike

I still suspect there is something not quite right with that power supply.

Unlikely that your heat problems can be explained by simply relocating the power supply.

You were saying that the drives were tripping in a matter of a couple of minutes. It would need a considerable heat source to achieve this in such a short time.

And if it is that, the power supply should not be generating that much heat that quickly.

Up until a week or so ago I had the same power supply and the machine would run for some time before the fan would even come on.

Now I know that you have removed it and all seems fixed. So it is reasonable to say therefore it was heat from the power supply that was the problem.

I would bet good money that in the end you will find it is something else. Most likely the power supply but for other reasons than heat generation.

The event of removing the supply, banging it around a little, disconnecting and connecting, may have something to do with it working at present.

Greg

I know the customers in the UK have been having several issues with the Sieg voltage matching. With hundreds of units out there and none exibiting anything like this, I would suspect the power supply is putting out more than 48 volts. It is the only thing the drivers have in common. I've never seen more than one axis at a time limit out. In fact, I haven't seen many limit out at all. I run my personal machine every day and sometimes for all day. Never seen them limit out. I would check the output of the powersuppy. They are adjustable. 48V is the target.

Greg & Syil America,

As I have said in previous posts, the readings of both voltage and current are correct to all the drives so I can assume the PSU is supplying the correct levels. What I don't know is why the PSU is getting so warm after about ten minutes. Greg, it is at least ten minutes before the drives trip out, not just a couple as you mention. However, it is all the drives that trip out when the PSU is attached and again, this suggests to me that it is indeed the PSU that is heating them all and not just the drives themselves.

Can either of you tell me which way up your PSUs are? Is the cooling fan at the top, next to the drives, or at the bottom, next to the perforated base? The wires to and from the PSU are long enough for it to be mounted either way. It just seemed strange to me that the cooling fan would be blowing hot air from the PSU over the drives.

I have to say that I am convinced the PSU is the problem but as I only have the one machine, I do not know why. Thanks for the time.

Mike

Mike you say the voltage from the power supply is OK but you have not said that you have monitored it over a period of time while running the drives?

Are you quite sure it is stable.

Remember it is also possible the drives are faulting due to voltage dipping low (refer the manual) as well as being high.

Greg

EDIT: Forgot to say mine had the fan at the top.

Greg,

You were spot on.

Rigged up the machine again, with the PSU out, and monitored the voltage during a fresh air cut of circular pocket. The voltage reading at the start was a rock steady 47.9v. After about fifteen minutes it was still rock steady and I was about to abort the test when the meter flickered to 47.5v so I let the test continue. By now the PSU was quite warm but the fan had not kicked in. After another few minutes the meter started fluctuating a lot and dropped to between 32 and 34v. After a further five minutes it dropped again but this time to 25 - 30v. The machine was still running, the PSU was now very warm but the fan had still not come on. After another minute, one of the drives faulted and I stopped the program but kept the machine turned on. Voltage was now reading 25v. PSU fan kicks in and the voltage recovered to 47.9v but as soon as the fan turned off, voltage dropped to 37v. While the fan was off and the machine not running, the voltage crept back up to normal at 47.9v.

I am assuming that this means I have a dodgy PSU. I did notice that it is rated at only 7amps yet if all four motors are turning at the same time, would the machine not demand 4 x 3A i.e. 12amps? I was surprised that the fan made such a difference, as soon as it kicked in, the voltage returned to normal. Could this also mean that the fan sensor is not adjusted correctly? I still feel something is getting far too hot in there and should not require the fan to run much of the time.

I shall be contacting Hugh at Syil UK today to let him know the problem.

Mike

EDIT: Just contacted Hugh and explained the problem and there is a replacement PSU being couriered to me as we speak - can't say fairer than that can you?

i have been email him syil UK to prepare a new power for you.if he do not have stocks,we may DHL to you directly,let me konw you address later if syil uk do not have stocks.
Syil China.

Syil,

Thanks, but Hugh is already on the case.

It is clear now why all the drives were faulting, with the voltage dropping so low, none of the drives would be seeing the correct voltage and hence all were signalling a fault. So, now we know why it was such a strange kind of problem but thanks to Greg, it is now sorted.

Thanks again Greg for the insight of how to test.

Mike

Glad to hear you've found the problem.

Maybe I should have asked for a new power supply. Didn't even think of it. :p

Now we wait for reports of how you are enjoying using your new machine.

Pics are good, movies even better. :)

Greg

I contacted Syil UK yesterday afternoon and received my replacement PSU at 11:30 this morning. Now I think that is pretty good service and one that many firms would do well to emulate - thanks Hugh.

I wired it up this evening and was surprised to notice that the fan runs continuously, despite having the same message on the case saying that it only came on at certain temperatures. Anyway, I set up the same test and ran the machine doing circular pockets for about one hour. The multimeter did not flicker and was a constant 47.6v all the way through. What is more, the PSU remained cold to the touch throughout the test and the draught from the fan was also cold.

Now, I don't know whether this is a deliberate design change or whether I have a faulty fan sensor but I do think the whole system will benefit from a permanent through draught as the cooling air from the PSU is directed over the drives.

I still have an issue with the heat of the stepper motors and during this latest test the motors were far too hot to put a finger on for more than a second at the most! I do not have a lot of experience of steppers but my previous machine, an Isel engraver/mill, used similar size steppers and they barely got warm even during very prolonged running of tens of hours.

If it is a case of turning the amps down to reduce the heat, at what level can I reliably operate, given they are at a fraction under 3A at the moment?

I am much happier now and can hopefully start getting the machine ready for some serious work. I am about to start another thread on a small modification I have made in light of some less than perfect engineering on the Y axis.

Mike

Mike

That's better. :)

I guess it's not a bad thing to have the fan going full time. It is a very generic fan and will be very easy to replace if it ever wears out.

Are you still running the Auto current reduction thing? My steppers never get more than warm.

I did set them to 2.8amps though. Maybe this is enough below the 3 amp rating to make the difference.

I also made some modifications to the Y axis setup.

I achieved full travel from one side to the other of the table. Which the Syil design did not have at that time.

Be interested to see what you have come up with.

Greg

Greg,

I think I will try turning mine down a bit, they are certainly getting too hot for comfort.

My modification was not for any extra travel it was for freer movement, though it would have been nice if they had bored a hole in the base of the pillar to accept the Y axis ballscrew as it would have given a little more travel and would be relatively easily done in the factory - but not at home!

I would like to have taken the head off to lap the Z axis ways but decided it was too big a job for a single handed operation. Didn't fancy the gas strut pinging out either!

Mike

EDIT: I forgot to mention, yes, I am still running the half current mode.

I would like to have taken the head off to lap the Z axis ways but decided it was too big a job for a single handed operation. Didn't fancy the gas strut pinging out either!

Mike,

Would you mind explaining how you have been lapping your ways and why you feel it is necessary?
Are the ways on the X3 surface grinded, scraped or just a milled finish out of the box?

John

EDIT: forgot to ask, do the stepper motors have a plate stating Amps and Volts rating?

John,

I suppose lapping maybe stretching the point a little but I certainly did some work on them. I found the biggest problem was with the adjustable gibs - on my machine they were both (X and Y axis) in a terrible state with burrs and scratches all over the place. I even started with a file on these to remove the burrs on the edges. I then used some 600 grit wet and dry on a surface plate to get the running face cleaned up. These were then finished with a fine grade slip stone with plenty of oil.

The ways themselves were pretty good though there were some very slight machine marks on them. I honestly don't know how they are finished whether it be straight of a mill or whether they are ground. I simply used plenty of oil and a tapered slip stone that I've had for years yet never had a reason to use. It's a good job I don't throw many things away :)

I did not spend a great deal of time on the ways but judging by the colour of the oil, I managed to remove some material. It is interesting to see that the grease I used when re-asembling the machine has remained pretty clean on the X and Y axis yet the Z axis, which I was only able to grease, and not lap, it is quite dirty. To me this suggests there is some material wearing on the Z ways - I hope it is just the high spots!

Mike

Thanks for the clarification.

Unless I am reading it wrong you are saying you are using grease on your slides? If this is the case you should be using oil.

John

John,

I have seen this mentioned somewhere before - can you tell me why it should be oil and not grease? I am using a thin, lithium grease recommended for bearings and slides. I appreciate that both grease and oil will pick up dust and debris to a certain extent but are there any other reasons to only use oil?

I don't have a problem with cleaning the whole thing down again and applying oil but would love to know the ins and outs of why.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike,

I’ve done a quick web search for an in-depth explanation of why oil over grease but didn’t fined a good link.

I use Mobil Vactra No2 on my mill as it is especially designed for the job. If you have a quick read through the link it should be self explanatory.

http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/Lubes/PDS/IOCAENINDMOMobil_Vactra_Numbered.asp

Did you notice my edit in my last post?


EDIT: forgot to ask, do the stepper motors have a plate stating Amps and Volts rating?

John

John,

Thanks for the info - I'll get some of that oil. Do you have contact details of a supplier? I'll do a search too and see if there is a local supplier.

I did miss your edit and I've just re-checked all the steppers and there is diddly-squat on them, not even so much as a scratch. They are anonymous!!

Thanks,

Mike

I bought some from this Ebay seller and I have not needed any more yet, so only place I know. I will be looking for other sources so if you find a good one could you post here please? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200100791687&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010

As for your stepper motors over heating, it is very likely the only thing you will be able to do is reduce the current. Hopefully you will still have plenty of power to do the cutting you want.

Good luck,
John

Thanks John, I'll bear Ebay in mind. I did a search and found a supplier in Liverpool, not far from where I work, and I'm just waiting for a reply from them as to the smallest quantity they will supply. I notice that the Ebay site sells it in one litre tins. I'm sure a litre is more than enough for quite a few years!!

Mike

I'm in UK as well, and I found the cheapest slideway oil so far is this CASTROL MAGNA BD68 from

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Mechanical,+Office+&+Workplace/Cutting+fluids,+lubricants+&+Greases/CASTROL/6240+7057/displayProduct.jsp?sku=165056

I haven't tried it. Is it an equivalent oil to the Mobil No.2? I think they are all built to the BD68 standard.

I'm in UK as well, and I found the cheapest slideway oil so far is this CASTROL MAGNA BD68 from

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Mechanical,+Office+&+Workplace/Cutting+fluids,+lubricants+&+Greases/CASTROL/6240+7057/displayProduct.jsp?sku=165056

I haven't tried it. Is it an equivalent oil to the Mobil No.2? I think they are all built to the BD68 standard.


Hi and thanks very much for the link :cheers:

Had a quick look at the data and they look to be same/very similar.

John

In a pinch, I use automatic transmission fluid for my ways. It has a slight oder and is slightly thinner than the #2 oil, but works well.

Machine shops around here have been using hydraulic oil (automatic transmission fluid) for at least 20+ years. That's where I got the idea from.

I've been doing a bit of searching for 'slideway oils' and one of the better documents is the one attached. On the third page is a table and it lists, in row 'P', all the major manufacturers of slidway oil, along with the type of oil. What is pretty clear from all the searching is that there are two main viscocities that we need, namely 68 and 220 and nearly all the manufacturers use these two numbers in their oil nomenclature. The numbers are viscocities needed for horizontal slideways (68) and for vertical slideways (220)

Here are some links to suppliers in the Uk: the first one, Lawson-His, has Rocol slideway oil in an aerosol. Now while this may be a lot more expensive ml for ml than from a can, it may be very useful in the small quantities we will use as hobbyists.

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/products.php?cat=Rocol%20Machine%20Tool%20Slideway%20Lubricants
http://www.oilswell.com/products/indiv/SLIDE068.php
http://www.oilsandlubricants.co.uk/shop/show_category.php?category_id=55&dept_id=2
http://www.hallettoil.co.uk/modeloiluk/mengpr.htm

Mike

I also wondered if the engine oil can be used? like 5W30? too thin maybe?

To me this suggests there is some material wearing on the Z ways - I hope it is just the high spots!

Mike


Mike F,

When I was first testing my S3 I decided to put it through its paces with a 3-D surface path. I was tuning in the drives during this hour-long toolpath when I heard an irregular grumbling sound. I stopped the mill and jogged the axes around until I found the source to be on the Z. It was on the air spring side on the top of the head's dovetail block.


I replaced the original spring with two weaker ones on each side of the column. Even with the deep gouging the original setup provided me, after some brief deburring and heavy lubing the Z axis move smoothly and reliably.

I want to replace the setup with an active DA air cylinder when I get a chance.

Cheers,
Brad

Brad,

First of all, a very happy new year to you and all SX3 owners out there.

Good to hear of your experiences. I am reluctant to dismantle the Z axis because I have no drawings or any idea of what the correct procedure should be. Also, how do you disconnect the air spring? Does it need to be tied up first, so it doesn't suddenly expand, once freed? I believe these things can be dangerous!

I have been doing some lengthy, three dimensional cutting, about one and a quater hours per piece and have noticed some noises coming from the spindle. When turned by hand it makes a squeaking noise and feels a little 'gritty'. Problem is, there does not seem to be an easy way to get at the bearings to see if they are damaged or need any lubrication. Any suggestions? I am not using the high speed pulley as I was not too happy with the heat generated when using it.

I have to say that now it has all been de-greased again and the correct, slideway oil used, the X and Y axes are running beautifully and I am, overall, extremely pleased with the machine.

Another question, for all the SX3 owners out there. What have you found to be your maximum accelerations and speeds for all the axes? I have mine set up as 750mm/min for Z (approx 30"/min) and X and Y set up at 1500mm/min (approx 60"/min) accelerations are 1000mm/sec/sec (approx 39"/sec/sec). My machine is quite comfortable at these settings but I was wondering what others have found to be good.

Mike

MikeF



We have run our SX3 at 2000mm/min rapids quite successfully. On our X2 we have rapids set to 2,500mm/min.... obviously cutting speeds are lower.

It won't hurt the machine having your rapids set higher....

cheers and Happy New Year.

Frans

Maybe I've missed it but aren't you 50 HZ in Oz? What happens if the transformer providing your DC power is designed for 60HZ. Maybe nothing but just a thought.
- Gerry

Mike,

When I did the upgrade, I removed the head from the Z-yoke plate and set it aside. I then homed the Z and began to loosen the spring post.

As it got near the end, the plate started to angle in at the top so I jogged the Z up until the bolt was dead straight. Of course there was a slight preload (maybe .5" travel) but nothing to worry about. I kept pressure down on the spring during the last few turns to prevent thread damage.

I really recommend the double spring and I am surprised that no one else has posted the same problem.


-Brad

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Frans, It seems that I am in the ball park at around 1500mm/min but I might try and squeeze a little more out of it though on a machine this size, I doubt it makes a huge difference. I am probably more interested in everyone's acceleration setting though as this can make a big difference in cutting time on complex cutting jobs.

Brad, I think I really must dismantle the head to get at the spindle bearings. Richard of SyilAmerica pm'd me with a short procedure and said I would need to find somebody with a press to remove the bearings for re-packing. However, something else is niggling me - the recoil spring for the quill return. When the quill handle is removed, does the recoil spring disengage and if so, how on earth do you re-assemble it? I have copied Richard's reply below.

Mike

Mike,

I’m happy to hear you are having a good time. Not so happy to hear you are aving some issues.

The Chinese use a poor grade grease in the bearings. I’m not quite sure of its grade. If people have a little more pre-load on the spindle bearings, they tend to get warm and liquefy the grease. It runs dry and that’s where the noise is coming from. It usually presents itself after a few hundred hours of operation, but with people running high speed all the time it speeds up this time.

The good news is: It is very easy to pull the bearings and re-pack them. I would use a good synthetic grease to re-pack them. I use a marine grade so that is dissipates all the moisture. (I live in Oregon where it is very moist) You will need the final pulling and replacing of the bearings to be done on a press. If you don’t have one, shops usually charge $5-10 for this service. If you look at the original manual parts diagram you will have a good idea where to start. You are going to pull the quill handle and gear out and the idler bearing and gear from the top. Once those are off you disconnect the digital scale and the spindle cartridge will slide out. That is the part you need to press. Here are some tips:

1. Start the disassembly with the Z axis high so you have room to slide the spindle out.
2. DO NOT use any type of hammer on the spindle to remove the bearings.
3. Use a good synthetic wheel bearing grease to re-pack
4. When re-assembling the unit make sure everything in the head where the spindle resides is clean
5. For pre-loading the bearings, tighten the top nuts to about 20 ft/lbs (tight, but not too tight) and then back it off 1/8 of a turn.

What you will have is a machine much quieter than it was when it was stock.

Let me know if you need any more direction for getting this done. Total time to do this is about 30 minutes remove, 30 minutes re-install.

Richard

The air spring is a RATTRAP ! Be careful.
I am making a tool to hold mine compressed.
How else do you get a rotated head down near the table?

MikeF



We have run our SX3 at 2000mm/min rapids quite successfully. On our X2 we have rapids set to 2,500mm/min.... obviously cutting speeds are lower.

It won't hurt the machine having your rapids set higher....

cheers and Happy New Year.

Frans

I had an external multi start screwed positoning table attached to the 4th axis.
24000mm/minut before it skipped steps.! Push it till it skips, then backoff 20%.

Neilw20,

24000! Wow - do I assume this is a small positioning table? What is the fastest X axis speed you comfortably achieve and what about the acceleration settings? With slow acceleration, the X axis could well be out of travel before it gets anywhere near 24000mm/min, Y axis even worse.

I realise there are a number of variables limiting speed and acceleration but if I know there are some SX3 owners out there achieving considerably better performance than I am, then there is still work to be done on my machine.

Thanks for the heads up on the air spring - I thought I had read somewhere that these things can be dangerous - good idea to make up a tool to hold it compressed.

Thanks,

Mike

Light weight table (1/4" AL) slides in across the X3 table full length in X.
Sounds fast, but it takes 1 second before it squashes your finger.
Guarding system definitely required. Not enough power to cut finger off, but it could get severely damaged.