I've been working on a modified Solsylva machine for about 2.5 months now, a few hours some nights and weekends.

I finally am getting close enough to a point where it's more than just a bucket of parts - it is staring to MOVE!

I really benefited from Coogrr's pictures and videos, so I felt I should try to help out the next guy by putting up some information on my build.

Coogrr and I each took the belt-drive plans and modified them a little - I stuck closer to the original plans with the inexpensive bearings and rail setup - wood table etc. My biggest changes involved increasing the Y axis by a foot (to 4 feet for the gantry), and using 2" x 6.75" poplar on the side rails so I could place a full sheet of 5x5 baltic birch on the table and have a foot or so extend off the table under the X rails.

I initially thought of going with steel for the frame, but I had the wood on hand and after testing the deflection for the expected gantry weight of 50 lbs, and getting results under 0.004" at the center of the span and since I'm planning on cutting plywood I decided to start with the wood.

Some smaller deviations from the plans involved not using the pvc idler pullies and going with just bearings (coogrr's idea) and buying more pullies and using them as idlers (we both stumbled on that one).

I still have to put down the MDF for the Tslots, get my cables out of the way, put my electronics in a case, attach the router and tune the machine - but here's a first indication that I may some day finish.

Video of my messy shop and some initial moves:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcKtR3Ffd54

Video of running 4 simple lines of Gcode in turbocnc:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvvPpmzIyU

Nice machine. This is the one I wanted to build from David's plans book but don't have room for it at home. The cost was going to be more than I was willing to part with for a first machine. Hopefully, there will be a second machine build. My boss wants me to build one for his shop. Maybe he will decide on this one. I also want to build a steel or aluminum frame for the one I'm building now.

CarveOne

Well I've finished the major work on the electronics - the controller, powersupply etc., are tucked away into a plastic box similar to the origianl design with air flow holes and a fan installed as well.

I now have all three motors connected and running - and the router is now mounted as well.

I still have to screw down the T-slots and move the table into its final resting spot (a few inches closer to the wall) and add the limit switches.

I took some video showing the machine moving in all 3 axes close to it's limits (however since I don't have limit switches on it yet I was a little conservative).

Here's a video of the machine running some simple gcode.

--edit for some reason the embedded youtube video isn't working - turns out it's a forum issue all capital letters are gone and youtube uses mixed case...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORpt0f6ttfc

Nice moves! Thanks for the video. Wish mine was completed to that point.

CarveOne

Thanks for the compliments - I'm happy with how it's moving right now, I may have to do some adjustments after some test cuts, but right now I'm happy with the design.

I'm curious to find out what my cutting speeds will be and if I have to slow down to avoid racking issues since I have a 4 foot long gantry and am only using skate bearings on black pipe. However I'm only planning on cutting upto 3/4 ply and this isn't a production machine so I'm not too worried.

I suppose that it will take multiple passes to cut 3/4" MDF since that is what others are doing. The cutter bit can only cut a certain depth with any real quality no matter how stiff the frame and other mechanical parts are. We'll just have to learn the limits of the cutters we buy and the limits our machines can be pushed to. When we find a weakness we'll need to figure out how to correct it. These things evolve or get replaced with something a lot better.

CarveOne

It cuts! I've started doing some test cutting, and it's great to see that it really works.

I spent part of the weekend getting a 7 year old laptop to run Ubuntu Linux and EMC2. It's a little nicer than turbocnc, and I didn't want to bring one of my nicer computers into my shop to run Mach3. Mach3 was easier to setup initially (as was turbocnc), but once I got linux and the software installed it wasn't that hard to setup EMC2.

My daughter who is a year and a half old loves to watch the cnc move (no cutting, that would be too loud and I'd worry about dust etc.). The first time she and Mom watched it move in a test pattern around the whole table and it came to rest, she immediately asked for more. We finally had to tell her the cnc needed to go to bed for the night.

Oh and CarveOne, yeah I figured I'd be doing 1/4" depth passes, but I may find that is too aggressive at the speeds this machine can do, time / testing will tell.

Now on to all the project ideas that I have (mostly items for my daughter....now where is that dinosaur dxf thread).

Excellent!! Wish my machine was at that point. Congratulations.

You might see if you can find some cnc cutters that look like roughing end mills. I saw some small ones recently that a friend had acquired as a set. I'll ask him where he got them so I can order some. I have some 8% cobalt roughing end mills in sizes from 3/16" to 1/2". I plan to try one of them in a router if one of them will fit. If they cut wood as well as they cut aluminum and steel I'll use them.

I re-read your older post about the idler pulley substitutes. I'm not real happy with the plastic coupler with bearings either. It has a sag in the middle due to the coupler ID being a little on the small side. I have a couple of 5/16" ID plastic flange pulleys that I didn't use after changing to 1/2" acme rods. I'll use one of the pulleys for the idler. Thanks for that post.

CarveOne

CarveOne - glad I could help with the pulley idea. I'll work on taking some pictures of the machine components and where I substituted the pulleys for anyone else who's considering it - (I think my current thread is suffering from a lack of pictures - especially when I look at your posts, which are very detailed).

I'd be interested in hearing more about any sources for cutters that you find. I ordered a set of router bits from MLCS (combination of straight, straight up cut, and ball nose cutters) they have good prices and free shipping - and sure beat Rockler (a woodworking chain for those who aren't familiar with it) for selection and price.

I'll post some reviews of the router bits once I've had some time to test them out.

Ron39,

I tried the plastic pulley and the diameter is about 1/8" smaller than the coupler. The stepper mounting bracket does not have enough range in the bolt slots to tighten the belt. A new bracket would have to be made so that there is enough length in the obround slot to allow proper tensioning of the belt.

The 1/2" x 1-1/8" bearings I used on the lead acme screws are slightly larger than the coupler and would probably fall within the adjustment slot range. I don't see a good way to provide washer "flanges" that rotate with the outer bearing ring. Stationary flanges would be easy, but I'm not sure that those wouldn't cause belt wear. Not sure that the belt wouldn't run off the bearings if there were no flanges. The 5/16" idler bolt would need a bushing to make it fit the 1/2" ID bearings.

Skimming off the surface of the coupler in my lathe so that it is true all the way across it would also cause the same problem as the smaller pulley.

I'll try skimming the coupler surface first, and only remove the minimum amount. If the stress from pressing in the bearings cause the coupler to split, I'll make up another one and remove a little of the coupler's ID so the bearings fit snugly but don't deform the outer surface of the coupler (It's nice to have a lathe and mill handy.) I only have one extra bearing at the moment but will order more spares later.

CarveOne

Yeah I wished I'd initially bought more bearings.

For anyone contemplating a build that uses skate bearings, do yourself a favor and get more than you need - I think a package of 100 would have cost me maybe $10 or $15 more than I was paying for 30, and I should have done it.

Also CarveOne - depending on where you have the idler bearing, you may not need any flanges. Without pulling out the plans for your machine and just thinking of mine - even when the belt is running in the horizontal orientation and has gravity pulling on it, the pulleys which are under load do have flanges and they serve to do the alignment, so you don't need the idler bearing to have flanges as long as it's wide enough to support the belt in the range of positions it could be.

Hope that makes sense. You can get a better idea of this if you look at Coogrrr's videos where he shows his idler pulleys (both by using extra pulleys and by using just bearings). Or I can try to take a picture tomorrow if you still have questions.

I'm following this design concept. Ron, Carve, and Coogrr are my heros. ;)

I just bought a set of 100 for $35.00 shipped. A local bearing supply wanted $4.05 EACH!

I laffed in his face.

As long as your belts are in alignment, I don't see the problem with using a stationary flange or even a coathanger. You wouldn't be putting that much force on the side of the belt to cause wear. I would guess that during a JOG would be the most chance for this to happen. Yes?

OzarkCNC,

Thanks for the compliment. I'm just trying to make my machine run with a little less drag and make the belt last longer. Other upgrades are a result of reading about issues in the original design that can be improved upon. I need my machine to be a working machine with better accuracy so I have used better wood and have been installing 1/2" acme rods and anti-backlash nuts. I should have built the Solsylva belt drive table instead but I have no room for it for the time being. Ron39's 48 x 72 table is more like the size I need, or at least a 48" x 48" table.

Ron39,

After I sent the post last evening I continued looking at the idler made of 1-1/8" OD bearings. Three of them stacked is 0.93" wide versus 1.410" for the coupler. Three bearings with no flanges should be more than wide enough. Two bearings are 0.62" wide and may not need fixed flanges if the belt doesn't wander very much after getting the bearings running centered under the belt.

The plastic coupler idler measures 1.08" diameter in the center and about 1.10" where the bearings are pressed in. It wouldn't take much turning to flatten it out. The bearings are 1.125". It looks like there is plenty of travel left in the obround slots in the stepper mounting plate to accommodate the larger bearing OD.

I considered turning a couple of washers on the lathe to remove a few thousandths off the face of one side to provide a step that contacts the inner bearing race but not the outer race. That will allow the outer bearing race to turn freely. The same effect can be done with a small and large washer on each side. The flange to bearing gap will be larger though. Another way to do this is to force the washer to have a small amount of cupping. That can be done with a round head bolt, nut, a few washers, and a ~2" section of the appropriate size steel pipe. (The bolt is tightened and pulls the washer into the pipe enough to distort the washer into the bowl shape as it is pulled into the pipe section. Not much cupping is needed.)

CarveOne

CarveOne - hey I love those ideas for modifying a washer, if the cupping idea works that seems like a pretty quick way to add flanges.

On my build the idler pulleys made of stacked bearings are used on belts that are 3/8" wide and the drive pulleys are only slightly wider than the belts, so stacking 2 or 3 bearings works as an idler. For the 3/4" belts I bought extra 15 tooth pulleys made of Al., and drilled 7/8" diameter pockets on either side to add 7/8" OD bearings. This may have been overkill (and more cost than needed) but it works.


OzarkCNC - I just read your build log, looks like you're coming along. And you decided to go with the belts? Just to give you an idea from my table - I'm using the Xylotex board and 269 oz in. motors and I don't have any trouble pushing a 4 foot Aluminum channel gantry around the table. I initially went with that setup for motors and controller since I had plans to use them on my Seig X2 if I upgraded the CNC router.

OK another video installment. I've been spending more time on the software side lately (learning EMC2, Cambam, CNC_Toolkit, Gcode in general). Here's a video of cutting a little test cycle I made so I could measure backlash. The Y axis is spot on - cutting a 1" square is good to 0.003" and pecking holes even while overshooting and coming back the spacing is consistent. The X axis needs to be adjusted - the backlash is about 0.02", which seems to be a belt tension issue.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ut3Ecze6Kto&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ut3Ecze6Kto&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut3Ecze6Kto

ron39 -

You guys running your machines and doing test cuts are driving me crazy with your videos. I'm so jealous. :)

I finished my hardware assembly work today and will be wiring the electronics next.

I have a 1.7GHz computer with Fedora 6 on it currently and have considered using it with Fedora 7 and EMC2 instead of a faster 2.6 GHz Win XP computer I have which I would install Mach3 on. Are you happy with EMC2 so far?

CarveOne

CarveOne - you'll be there before you know it. And you're machine looks fantastic!

The PC you'll be using is much better than the laptop I'm running EMC2 on. It's just a pentium 3, circa 2000. That's part of the reason I wanted to try EMC2, I have several older laptops and PCs, but didn't want to bring a newer box down into the shop.

I had some difficulty installing from the LiveCD (it kept hanging when trying to partition the HD), so I downloaded the text only installer for Ubuntu 6, and that did the trick - very easy install after that. I'm using a xylotex board which they already have a pinout setup for it (though I did reverse the polarity of the Z axis so positive was up).

EMC2 runs great, I find it much more intuitive while it's running than I did Mach3 (though I must say I didn't use Mach3 that long, but there were just so many options on the screen and none of them seemed to relate to what I wanted to do). With EMC2 I can quickly do manual jogs, type in code, or load a gcode file see a preview of it, and watch a live view of the cut.

Since you already have linux you might find EMC2 works well for you (though you need to have a kernel that has been compiled with realtime support - so you may need to make some changes before starting EMC2).

I'll be looking for your test cut videos soon.

Well, don't be looking for my videos *too* soon. I have a ways to go yet before the videos can be made. (I hear it's bad luck to make videos of the first run attempts, because it's hard to get all of the smoke and fire and flying parts and bad language on camera at once.) :)

I'll consider using Linux and EMC2 then, but I'll buy and try Mach3 on my 2.6 GHz Win XP computer anyway.

CarveOne

Ok, I downloaded the Ubuntu Live CD ISO file from the EMC2 site link and burned it to a cdrom. I'll boot on it, see what it's all about, and then install Ubuntu Linux and the EMC2 software on the Fedora computer. I've been wanting to play with Ubuntu anyway.

CarveOne

OK I haven't had much time to work on the machine this past week until today. I had been unhappy with the backlash in the X direction so I took off the belts, re-adjusted the bearings then put the belts back on and retensioned them. I also did some testinging using a dial indicator to measure the movements in the X and Y axes. The results are much better, my X backlash is down to less than 0.002" and the Y is better than 0.001"

Here's a video of the testing - edit for some reason the forum software is changing the link - I can see the video on the post preview screen, but when it's posted the link is dead, here's the URL instead (only the z and b should be lowercase in the following - the forum seems to be changing it all to lowercase?):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24A3NzXVAbE

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Next up is making a dust shroud and limit switches.

Ron39,

Very good building. I can only hope that I can get my build anywhere near what yours is doing. Thanks for posting the how-to on the measurement procedure.

CarveOne

so like... where are the videos? photos?

vacpress - The forum is having a problem - no capital letters are showing up. Youtube uses both upper and lowercase letters so the links are not working until the forum figures out the problem.

In the mean time try this link you'll find all the videos there:
http://www.youtube.com/cncron39

Blame it on the Screen Writers Guild - they took all the capital letters with them when they went on strike..... :)


CarveOne

Where did you end up getting your belts from SDP-SI or Econobelt?

Did you get a stock length belt and cut it or just a stock roll X-feet long?

I'm at the point I need to buy belt, but not sure which way to go without spending good money on a belt that I am going to cut.

OzarkCNC - I went with however had in stock the length that I needed. I looked at both sdp-si and econobelt, I even bought 3 from McMaster Carr since they had some in stock closest to what I wanted. I did buy stock belts and cut them open.

Oh and I'm curious to see how you build goes - bummer about all the control board problems.

CarveOne - just wait til I get my hands on one of those thieving writers guild members...your comment was the funniest thing I've heard all day.

I was just wondering, cuz half of econobelts longer belts are *OOS* out of stock. If I am going to pay 25-50 for a belt, I might as well see if I can get a roll for a few dollars more, then buy pulleys to match the belt pitch.

I need 2 belts at least 100 to 108" and maybe half dozen small ones that are 6-12"

My troubles:
Ya, I am afraid to plug the new control board in. *CRINGE* If this one blows, I am going with one that is pre-built & -->tested<--.

ron39,

The funny thing is that the signature line is not affected, just the post's text when we type it. Maybe that's because the signature line was typed before something was changed in the forum configuration.

The older posts may not show the problem. I'll check on that, but the forums moderators should be aware of the missing capital letters by now. Glad my comment struck a chord with ya.

OzarkCNC, I ordered my belt and pulleys from sdp-si and some of the parts were shown as "out of stock" on the website but they were shipped the next day anyway. The same size belt was $30 at sdp-si and $9 at econobelt and both of them didn't show "in stock" on them. Econobelt didn't list one of the pulleys I needed, so I just got them all from one source and expected to wait for the belt on backorder. I don't think the website stock status tracks the available stock status very accurately.


CarveOne

ron39,

I downloaded and installed Ubuntu 6.06 this weekend and installed EMC2, so it's at least ready when I can finish wiring up my steppers and driver board.

CarveOne
(Dang, those capital letters sure look good now don't they?)

I LIKE CAPS! now we can shout again.

Well I spent some time in Pro/E, AutoCAD and Cambam and made a prototype for a dust shroud (as you will see in the video I need one so I can stop feeling the need to chase the router around with my shop vac).

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uvr01LvN8yE&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uvr01LvN8yE&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvr01LvN8yE

In the video I was cutting at 60 ipm, I've since done cuts at 100ipm and all seems fine (I was only cutting .125" depth).

CarveOne - good luck with your wiring up the electronics, let me know if you have any EMC2 questions.

Ron,

I have the small Solsylva table built and now I am looking for building the large belt one.


I was reading yor last message and saw you are being able to cut at 100IPM, very exciting ...
I am cutting pretty much at 10IPM (1/8" pass) and it seems this would be the maximum it will go. Not so much because of the table, it would be more related to the cutting itself (spindle and bit).
May I ask what kind of spindle (router or trimmer), bits and stock you are cutting?

Also, any links to a good bit supplier that delivers to Canada would be greatly appreciated...


Thanks a bunch,
George

George - well I've gotten bits from some local sources - Rockler (rockler.com) and Woodcraft (woodcraft.com) - and from online sources like MLCSwoodworking.com - their websites all list Canada as a shipping option.

I have several full size routers (2.5 and 3.5 HP), but I've only used a Bosch 1HP variable speed trim router on the table so far. The biggest limitation I've run into in my limited time using it, is the bit selection (you have to use 1/4 inch shank bits and I mostly have 1/2 inch). I generally use a 1/4" straight, and round nose bits - but have also used upto 3/4 inch bits for flattening the MDF T-slots.

For this table I think the speed limitation would be the Z-carraige and then the gantry rather than the router (though I haven't really spent time trying to find this out either).

I generally cut Baltic Birch plywood, but have done some hard and softwoods (pine, maple, cherry) during initial testing.

Good luck with your next build and I hope this helps.

OK I finally have a real project to show. I designed a counter stand - sort of a stool that kids can use to be at counter height, but it's enclosed so there's not the fear of them falling. This was the first attempt at making a piece of furniture with the CNC machine.

I'm happy with how it came out, and more importantly my daughter loves it.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SJRCxhWF2Z0&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SJRCxhWF2Z0&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJRCxhWF2Z0

Nice job ron39,

I'll bet that it's a good feeling to cut a bunch of parts and find that they actually fit together without a lot of grinding, fitting, and sanding (like my projects usually require).

CarveOne

Ron39,
Great job on the machine, the best gratification I feel is making things for friends and family. Look forward to seeing more of your work.

Joe

p.s. I subscribed to your youtube hope you don't mind.

Thanks for the compliments guys. I'm happy with it, though I find myself dreaming of a mech-mate. I just have to be able to justify that much of an investment.

That's why I started with a machine large enough to cut some of the furniture projects I want to do, albeit a little slower than a real production machine.

Oh and Joe, heck I'm flattered that the famous maker of all the joe's cnc machines would subscribe to my build videos. I was really impressed with your latest video. I routinely jog at 300 ipm (I haven't tried faster) but my sense is that I need a stiffer Z carriage to handle higher cutting speeds.

Though I'm still finding out the capabilities of the machine - I managed to snap a 1/4" router bit yesterday while cutting, the machine just kept going it didn't even lose a step so maybe it's as stiff as it needs to be.

Carveone - How's EMC working out for you? I'm looking forward to seeing what you build.

Very nice Ron! Very impressed with the video ... I was showing it to the wife last night to get her to support the construction of the new big table! I am trying to score some points with the "see how happy the family is with their new piece of furniture". LOL

I am not sure if you already discussed this but in retrospect, are there any changes you wish you would have considered during your building process?


Congrats again!

MJCMendonca - changes...well I was limited by shop space, but if I had more room I would have made it a little longer. I haven't had any problems yet since I typically cut 5x5 foot sheets of baltic birch plywood - but it might be nice to take an 8 foot sheet of plywood.

I am interested in Joe's work on using the V-bearings. It takes a bit of alignment to get the skate bearings setup on the black pipe - but really overall I am quite happy.

Oh but if you haven't read my previous comments - this build is a mod of the solsylva machine - I made it a foot wider, and didn't use the idler pulleys as he designed them, those were the biggest changes I made.

ron39,

Ubuntu and EMC are running fine. I've looked at EMC2 screens but haven't played with the option to "cut air" so far. I don't have my cnc router wired up so I can't brag or complain about how EMC2 works yet. :) I don't have much time to devote to the router or to EMC2 at the moment due to building a new 30' x 40' workshop, with the foundation work starting tomorrow.

The things that I will make initially are parts for UAVs and wind tunnel models that I build with my employer. Other home projects for fun and profit will surely happen also.

CarveOne

ron39,

Great product! Have you considered approaching one or more of the big "assemble yourself " places such as Home Depot to market your chair design?

Peter

Peter - thanks for the compliment.

I've considered designing and selling some furniture - whether to outsource the manufacturing (similar to your idea), sell the plans and/or pieces through a source like www.ponoko.com, or locally and/or a website since it can be flat packed (similar to www.untothislast.co.uk)

For those wondering about updates to the router, I've modified the Z carriage. I bought a router mount from K2, and attached it to a .25 thick piece of aluminum since I started running into problems of the metal strapping not holding the router as rigid as required for faster / deeper cutting.