Hi All,

Just wondering if any of you have had a coolant foaming problem. My 2412 seems to constantly overflow in foam.

I use a product from MSC called Prime Cut and at the suggested dilution ratio.

Any ideas would be most helpful!

Thanks
Larry

I'll tell you my tale of woe about coolant foaming.
I have three machines that have high pressure pumps. My Sharp is one of them. I used Valcool 800 and it foamed. I used Hangsterfers S500cf and it foamed like the dickens. I put in all the antifoam crap and that cured the problem for a day.
Clogged all the filters with the stuff. I called the Hangsterfers rep and he sent me 10 gal of NeoSol 300 for free. That cured the problem.
I spent a lot of time checking PH and hardness of water. Sent in samples to the lab....
Changes to Neosol and the issue went away

I dont have a coolant system myself but may add some light with some general knowlenge.

One cause for foam or bubbleing is the introduction of air to a liquid.

Is it possible your system is taking in air somehow?

You will find that alot of brands will foam more then others. We use Blazer in all of our machines and never have a problem. As long as you keep the right dilution its great. We usually try and replace it every 6 months because of the oil, but other then that its a good brand coolant.

I use a coolant called liquid ice in mine and as long as I keep the oil in the sump down under a gallon, it is not bad about foaming. I finally ordered a skimmer so I think it will make easier easier.

We've been on Oemeta Novamet and had no issues at all.

I run two Sharp minis without chip conveyors. I have been using Hangsterfers S500 for about a year now. It foams, but doesn't overflow unless I get lazy. Here's some things I have picked up on:

If the tank level gets too low the pump will thrash the coolant and essentially "spray foam". This is very simple, and many times the cause for excessive foam.

Obviously, if the chip tray gets too full and coolant is foamy it will overflow the basket. My machines used to overflow all day long, until I got a new operator who actually checks and empties the chip trays. They never overflow nowadays.

I find that the chips created by serrated roughing bits tend to clog the tray. With this in mind, empty the tray sooner.

If I don't need a full blast of coolant I throttle it back. For example I run my coolant at about 1/2 the pressure (the valve at the nozzles) when I am cutting steel with TIALN coated carbide bits.

Let your chips dam up the two downhill runs into the chip tray. Add a damn there if needed. If your coolant is foaming, "filtering" it through chips before it hits the chip tray is very helpful to reduce foam. Chips pop air bubbles.

I run my S500 at 5%-10% concentration. It foams alot when fresh. I deal with it though... it lasts me 3-4 months longer than anything else I have ever used (before it rots like a dead body)

Evan

You will find that alot of brands will foam more then others. We use Blazer in all of our machines and never have a problem. As long as you keep the right dilution its great. We usually try and replace it every 6 months because of the oil, but other then that its a good brand coolant.

We can get the Blaser to foam if your tank is low and pumping both air and liquid. Also not good for the pump! I don't blame the Blaser for this...

We had our coolant rep in a couple of weeks ago because we had foaming problems, he went over to the machine looked at it a couple of minutes, he then grabbed a pail of our vactra #2 and dumped it in, I about crapped my pants at this!! he said the anti foamers on the market are just oil anyways. The foaming stopped after a couple of hours and we have not had that problem since!!

The Hangsterfer's coolants are just not that good and they keep raising the prices !! The s-500 is loaded with phenols and that will cause big problems with waste treatment and cause the seals to swell


I run two Sharp minis without chip conveyors. I have been using Hangsterfers S500 for about a year now. It foams, but doesn't overflow unless I get lazy. Here's some things I have picked up on:

If the tank level gets too low the pump will thrash the coolant and essentially "spray foam". This is very simple, and many times the cause for excessive foam.

Obviously, if the chip tray gets too full and coolant is foamy it will overflow the basket. My machines used to overflow all day long, until I got a new operator who actually checks and empties the chip trays. They never overflow nowadays.

I find that the chips created by serrated roughing bits tend to clog the tray. With this in mind, empty the tray sooner.

If I don't need a full blast of coolant I throttle it back. For example I run my coolant at about 1/2 the pressure (the valve at the nozzles) when I am cutting steel with TIALN coated carbide bits.

Let your chips dam up the two downhill runs into the chip tray. Add a damn there if needed. If your coolant is foaming, "filtering" it through chips before it hits the chip tray is very helpful to reduce foam. Chips pop air bubbles.

I run my S500 at 5%-10% concentration. It foams alot when fresh. I deal with it though... it lasts me 3-4 months longer than anything else I have ever used (before it rots like a dead body)

Evan

Uh......
So what would you recomend?
Interesting screen name...
Are you a salesman?
Not very helpfull to knock something with no evidence. Care to quote a couple of sources for "Loaded with phenols" And Wreck havoc with our waste treatment plants?
I use Hangsterfers Neosol 300 and have not had any issues with cutting anything nor have I heard anything about environmental issues with ANY of Hangsterfers products.
You just piqued my interest with your blanket statement.....

The Hangsterfer's coolants are just not that good and they keep raising the prices !! The s-500 is loaded with phenols and that will cause big problems with waste treatment and cause the seals to swell

What is a phenol?

Before I'd try to 'cure' foaming with (tramp) oil, I'd think a water test is in order. Perhaps it is possible that water can be too soft? Question: how do you make water hard artificially, not that you'd want to go to the other extreme. Somehow you would have to get a bit of calcium in the water.

We've been using Oemeta Novamet AL900 with great success for about 6 months, no stink, no foam, and excellent surface finishes, and it washes off parts extremely easy as well. What more can you ask for. Oh Yah no rusting in the machine either!!!!!!

http://87.139.116.80/en/Products/index.html Here's a link to their coolant site.

I had a blaser rep in about a month ago. He basically said the same thing Hu said. If the water is too hard the coolant will split, if you use reverse osmosis or use deionized water it has no minerals and the water will be too soft and the coolant will foam up like crazy. So it could be the water is too soft. The rep also said they have an additive for water that's too soft to control the foaming.

.... Somehow you would have to get a bit of calcium in the water.

It might sound a bit silly but...give it a Calcium supplement; the pills or liquid you buy at the drugstore for old folks who don't want to suffer from osteoporosis.

I have no idea if it would work.

But I am also confused: both Big Mak and myself are in an area where the water is very soft. I use Shell Dromus and he uses something different and we do not have foaming problems. I sometimes think there is a lot of black magic in keeping your coolant happy.

I use rain-water myself and don't have problems with excessive foaming, but am using Hocut 795.

If the water is artificially softened, it could be a different ballgame. I used to visit my in-laws who had very hard water, artificially softened, and just a wee dab of soap took a lot of rinsing to get rid of the suds and slime.

Sorry i was refering to the S-500 concerning the phenols i don't know about the neosol 300 we never used it , how is it working ?

our plant had problems with the s-500 in the past due to the phenols we switched to Monroe Astro Cut and we can waste treat it without a problem.

Not a sales person just a HSE for an gear maker

let me know how that new coolant is

have a good day



Uh......
So what would you recomend?
Interesting screen name...
Are you a salesman?
Not very helpfull to knock something with no evidence. Care to quote a couple of sources for "Loaded with phenols" And Wreck havoc with our waste treatment plants?
I use Hangsterfers Neosol 300 and have not had any issues with cutting anything nor have I heard anything about environmental issues with ANY of Hangsterfers products.
You just piqued my interest with your blanket statement.....

The Hangsterfer's coolants are just not that good and they keep raising the prices !! The s-500 is loaded with phenols and that will cause big problems with waste treatment and cause the seals to swell

That's actually quite untrue. At my previous job, we sold BOTH Blaser Swisslube and Hangsterfer's coolant, and one of our biggest clients had extensive INDEPENDANT testing done on the coolant before it was even approved for their use. There are absolutely NO PHENOLS in the Hangsterfer's S500 coolant. I don't know what prices are seen in the U.S. , but they are very competitive with Blaser here in Canada.

What is a phenol?

"Phenol, also known under an older name of carbolic acid, is a toxic, colourless crystalline solid with a sweet tarry odor. Its chemical formula is C6H5OH and its structure is that of a hydroxyl group (-OH) bonded to a phenyl ring; it is thus an aromatic compound."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol

Before I'd try to 'cure' foaming with (tramp) oil, I'd think a water test is in order. Perhaps it is possible that water can be too soft? Question: how do you make water hard artificially, not that you'd want to go to the other extreme. Somehow you would have to get a bit of calcium in the water.

As far as Blaser is concerned, they use Calcium Acetate (powder form) as an anti-foam agent. One con against this type of foam control is that the powder does not always dissolve properly in the coolant and it tends to cake the coolant sump pumps/holding tanks, and over time, will harden like cement. Hangsterfer's has another approach as far as controlling foam, as do other producers, such as Cincinnati and Master Chemical, to name just a couple.

When I was using S500, I had foaming issues and was told to add calcium carbonate (I think that's what it was. ) an anti foaming agent put out by Hangsterfers. Worked for about a day and we were back to mopping the floor...
Went to Neo Sol 300 at the Hangsterfers rep's recomendation and have been happy since. We cut a lot of stainless and this works well.

When I was using S500, I had foaming issues and was told to add calcium carbonate (I think that's what it was. ) an anti foaming agent put out by Hangsterfers. Worked for about a day and we were back to mopping the floor...
Went to Neo Sol 300 at the Hangsterfers rep's recomendation and have been happy since. We cut a lot of stainless and this works well.

I don't think that was it. Hangsterfer's has their own Anti-Foam agent out, and the last time I checked, it's known as "Tankside AntiFoam". It's not cheap, but usually, it only takes a capful diluted into some fresh coolant emulsion, which is then added to the tank. You must make sure that it is mixed thoroughly prior to adding it to the tank. You should see results almost immediately. That being said, I do not remember if the "Tankside AntiFoam" was compatable with Hangsterfer's new Neosol line of products. A quick call to their head office will get you that answer however. :)