Lets get real here KIDS, The Big Question "IS MAN CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE"?
The earth has gone thru many climate changes in its 10,000 year history (Unless your an evolution clown then its BILLIONS AND BILLIONS)
Anyway the last Ice age we came out of was oh lets just say 5,000 years ago. I find it hard to believe that at the time there were enough gas guzzling cars here to really effect that kind of change. My guess would be maybe a few hundred, and after watching Fred and Barny drive I have to say that them feet turning a mile a second, In my book wont generate much toxic waste except for the occasional fart.
So climate change is it real................Sure it is it is changing all the time. Can man affect it.......................You would have to a long haird pot smoking hippie to think he could. But hey lets ban everything just incase

Bluesman
PS. Reform long haird pot smoking hippie(And an ocasinal shroom or two)

Try rahab it worked for me

Next thing they'll be telling us, is that private gun ownership is responsible for climate change.

Even thinking about global change causes 1 degree rise in the average ocean temperature. S' true.. I read it on the back of a beer mat.

Personally, and IMHO (I dont wish to make enemies), I think that is reckless way to go about analyzing climate change. Scientific observation should be seperated from politics; climate change is not a policy issue.

Yes, it is true that the earth's climate changes on its own due to many factors - including water vapor, solar output (not controlled by man), orbit patterns (also not in our control), lunar patterns, and plate techtonics (yes, the same plates that cause earthquakes).

But - the most significant factor in earth's climate is atmosphere composition. There are obvoiusly many independent factors that control this, from volcanic activity, to plant life. However - using the fact that the atmosphere can change on its own to draw a conclusion that it cant change due to human activity is simply laziness. There is ample, ample data to support the fact that human CO2 emissions have, in fact, created an atmosphere that is not what it was before the industrial revolution. This isn't hippie propoganda, it's hard science - the fact that this issue has become so wrapped up in politics is unfortunate. It shouldn't be so difficult for humans to agree on something we all do.

-a short haired, smoke free hippie engineering student

Let's put it in my perspective. Will CO2 trap solar heat, yes a little. Water vapor, methane, ozone friendly gases, do a lot more. I don't believe CO2 is the main culprit. I think warming is natural, just like the cooling in the 70's, and the warming that started back 120 years ago, and the much warmer period 1000 years ago, and the ice age 50,000 years ago, and the hundreds of cooling and heat trends that have happened since then.

The great unwashed masses like a good story of gloom and doom. Global warming will be bad, global cooling would be much much much worse. We happen to be lucky enough to live in a warming period.

I really think that changes in land cover, city, deforestation, erosion into water bodies, forest fires, and dark particles from plowing and everything we humans move around is going to end up being the biggest single factor.

But, it's not sexy, or liable. So, Al Gore needs to be president of the universe, so he's spinning a yarn that scares the little children more than a promise of eternal damnation. Welcome to the next new religion. You just have to believe. Have Faith in Gore.

who are the spokes people in North America , Gore and the radical without a cause David Susuki
with no documented proof Suzuki foundation had raised a huge stink here, farmed salmon in BC were breeding grounds for sea lice and the impact on our wild fish stocks will be catastrophic and blah blah blah , green peace had even spoke up and attacked suzuki about the subject , since the global warming bomb i have not read or heard anything about sea lice and the destruction of our stocks , dave's finally found a cause he will be recognized for ,
i'm surprised he hasn t tryed to link the lice farm fish and global warming together YET!
suzuki nor gore are scientists , yet they are speading their gospel , they were here a number of weeks back , if i recall properly the tickets to see them were 500 bucks a ticket , donate to the cause i suppose
why wouldn t they speak in a park for free to the common man who is being blamed and will be taxed heavily over this , is this not an important message for everyone to hear or do the blue collar slugs not matter

its clear something is happening ,is it our fault or is it nature ,i don t know .
what i do know is global warming needs to ditch those two self serving idiots

george carlon is a basket case but sometimes what he says make sense like in the following link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw

Here's an interesting read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle I actually saw the Great Global Warming Swindle and the Tony Jones show challenging Durkins claims. Without having knowledge of scientists disputing and challenging Durkins claims and highlighting the flaws it would be very easy to be led to beleive that the whole global warming issue is a scam.
The whole thing is like scientist who claim smoking is not harmful to your health, obviously there are vested interests (funding by tobacco companies) in such cases.

Splint

We got about 100 years left as a species on this planet. After that, life for humans will be like a bad sci-fi movie. We'll be living like little rats in holes, we'll only come out at night due to the heat. There won't be any food or water left. The fish will all be dead. Livestock won't be available to the poor who will number in the tens of billion by then. All the natural resources will be gone or polluted to the point of fatal toxicity to humans. Roving hordes of cannibals will be the last humans to live on earth, or at all really, where else will we go? Ohhhhh, looky my huge novelty check from liberal billionaire George Soros just arrived. I'm off to take away your guns!

I won't get political here. Global Warming is real. AND, so is evolution. Why discuss that here? Isn't there some sort of CONservative blog membership that you've attained for this sort of discussion?

I have rocks in my backyard older than 10,000 years. I can prove it, you can't disprove it. End of story.

?

ok
proove it without a reasonable doubt

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, you got me. I'm a liberal mouthpiece. And now I've been exposed. Darn you!(wrong)

[QUOTE=dang;356619] I'm a liberal mouthpieceQUOTE]

no worse than i am ,except i wouldn t clasify myself as liberal

i have a hard time beleaving everything i am told because science dictates it , science is based on theories that have been proven or need to be prooven, or disprooven , scientists all want to be recognized for the new big find , many spend a lifetime trying to proove their theory , the measurement of time of this planet in itself is a theory ,an educated one but none the less theory

The word theory is very often misused. Gravity is a theory, although we can measure it, we can be certain of it's existence, it's still a theory.
Evolution is a theory, although it's been proven to a certain extent, and much of cutting edge medical science, like genetics, is based on, and backs up the "theory" of evolution, it's still a theory.
A theory is something which isn't understood from stem to stern, like most things. Humans are stupid, we understand almost nothing, so everything is theoretical. But climate change is real, and it ain't about religion or political thought or any of that. In short, just because something is labeled a theory, doesn't mean that it's wrong, only incomplete. ALL legitimate science agrees that global warming is happening and immediately threatens the existence of ALL life on earth. We just don't understand every nook and cranny of it. We'll understand it better when we're all dead.

By the by, a little factoid on the actual effect of climate change is that the extinction rate of ALL species, plant and animal is currently 1000 times what it has been during the last century.
They're at this moment growing wine grapes in western Canada because the climate has CHANGED to allow them to do so.
Recent reports state that fish are dying in record numbers due to carbon levels in the oceans.
Coral is being bleached at rates never before measured by mankind, which is in turn making coral uninhabitable for sea life.
The proof is all around you, it's our fault. No amount of disagreement can change this unassailable FACT.

Climate change is real!
Can you honestly say that the air in every major city is clean?
Can you honestly say that lakes and rivers is not getting affected by fertilizer?
Can you honestly say that light poisoning has no affect on any part of nature?
No creatures are getting extinct because of us right?

Just because "global warming" happens naturally does not mean that we change the nature in any way. And if you change nature you change climate.
It is known that the heat of a city has changed the climate locally so thunder strikes there more often. Can't remember the city though.

Or does the polar icecaps have to melt before you call it a change?

And even tho I think global warming is a pos it have forced people to evolve technology forward and give us more efficient equipment.

On the flip side a lot of crap has come out of it. And I have a lot not so nice things to say about it but I won't. Instead I choose to make the best of it. Or maybe not. I usually 'politely disagree' about it. Not healthy I know but I can't help it.

BTW one thing I find funny. When they could no longer prove that there was a "global warming" that where caused by humans they suddenly started calling is "climate change".

BTW2 I don't expect half of what I'm saying to come out right or even understood. I just can't justify writing any more into a reply that won't make a difference. Not on global scale or on a smaller level. And convincing people that I'm right wont do a lot ether. Especially when people don't even know what they debate about. And people debating won't go anywhere ether. So in the end I wright this only for myself. Which was stupid on itself as it did not cheer me up. Only made me tired. Maybe I should set up a blog writing up useless posts. But then again no one would care. Thus back at square one. Maybe I should stop now and do something better with my time. It's not like I will get any of it back at this point though. All in all have I wasted valuable energy writing a post that server no purpose. Man I feel cheated.
Have a nice day!
Yep, that kind word to all of you probably justified the energy this post took to wright. However did it justify the energy to reed it?
Well I hope you got a warm feeling inside as that would help out a little bit on the heating bill.
And maybe the friction when you had to scroll through it.
Maybe I should have thrown this post away but that would have been even more wasteful. Or maybe not. Anyway now we will never know.

, just because something is labeled a theory, doesn't mean that it's wrong, only incomplete. ALL legitimate science agrees that global warming is happening .

if its labeled a theory it means it has not been prooven , its an idea ,
who decided that legit scientists agree with global warming when so many scientists have turned their backs to it

reguardless of what people beleave Canada does not and has not been in snow and ice 12 months of the year since the ice age , the climate here allows for a number of fruits and vegetables to be harvested and its not due to the new global warming because we've been harvesting well before global warming

people are getting pollution confused with global warming is there fertilizer in the water , yes , is there and always will be pcb's in every living thing yes , does that contribute to global warming , i doubt it

who decided that legit scientists agree with global warming when so many scientists have turned their backs to it

Please name one legitimate group of scientists who have turned their backs on climate change research.

Also, it's called spellcheck, you should look into that.

And, I'm not talking about growing strawberries or some other generic sort of fruit. I'm talking about Wine grapes which are notoriously difficult to grow and were impossible, until recently to grow in Canada's climate.

Speaking of turning backs, I'm done with this thread. A theory isn't merely an idea. It's an idea shared by enough scientists that it's valuable enough to pursue as their lives (plural) work.

.....I'm talking about Wine grapes which are notoriously difficult to grow and were impossible, until recently to grow in Canada's climate....

How recent is recent? Last five years, ten, twenty, fifty?

How recent is recent? Last five years, ten, twenty, fifty?

The turnover from "normal" crop growth to growing these "Wine Grapes" which have only previously grown in The Mediterranean, Southern Californian, and Southern French climates, has happened during the last TWO years.

These are the same two years where arctic ice melt has hit records. Where it's been reported that enough C02 has been deposited in the oceans to heat them by two degrees F. Imagine for a second how much energy it would take to heat all the salt water on earth by two degrees F. The World is by the way, made up of 2/3 water. That's alotta heat. Now realize that this amount of energy is dwarfed compared to the Methane output of our Factory Farming system for livestock. Livestock Farms put out more heated energy than every car, coal mine and factory stove pipe on earth combined.

Now anyone wanna talk about how like The Sikhs are killing all those Israelis over in Sri Lanka? That effects us to ya know.

The turnover from "normal" crop growth to growing these "Wine Grapes" which have only previously grown in The Mediterranean, Southern Californian, and Southern French climates, has happened during the last TWO years...

Don't be silly. The wine industry in the Niagara region of Southern Ontario is at least 40 years old and in British Columbia around the same.

Still I gues the rest of your post is equally silly.

My proof regarding my earlier wine statement.

http://deadgrapes.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/canadian-wines-the-next-big-thing/

It's funny how I'm the only one providing any substantive content in my posts, when others are only providing anecdotal denials of the massive amount of evidence which backs up the "theory" of climate change. Such is the nature and classic symptom of denial.

My proof regarding my earlier wine statement.

http://deadgrapes.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/canadian-wines-the-next-big-thing/

It's funny how I'm the only one providing any substantive content in my posts, when others are only providing anecdotal denials of the massive amount of evidence which backs up the "theory" of climate change. Such is the nature and classic symptom of denial.

I give up :). Anyone who takes a media reporter seriously, even if it is the Wall Street Journal, is not worth arguing with.

Also, it's called spellcheck, you should look into that.

.

in a simple conversation i dont see a point in being anal about my spelling or anyone elses

as far as scientists spending their lifes work on the subject thats their job .thats what they do , search into the great unknown
they had best come up with solid proof or they will be out of a job and their lifes work will have been in vain ,worthhless !

maybe you can tell us Canadians more about our new found harvests
ice wine had been developed over years of us planting our grapes in snow banks , its nice to actually plant them in thawed dirt for a change

Read the article I linked to in my last post. It says that Canadian wine has been considered a joke up until very recently when climate change allowed a decent breed of grape to be harvested.
Also, the news is meant to be taken seriously. How else would a person get information? So don't say you won't argue with me because I'm informed. Tell it like it is and say you can't argue with me because you are willfully uninformed, or in more precise terms, ignorant.

its nice to actually plant them in thawed dirt for a change

Yeah, because climate change is a good thing, and something you just admitted to being fully aware of. How does it feel to be behind the extinction of your own species in favor of not having to travel south for winter?

Some Dems occasionally watch Fox News and take away lessons in debate ya know.

i suppose it wouldn t make sense that much of the world has been creating wine for hundreds of years thus most old countries produce great wine , i suppose we should have just put more effort in doing it right the first time

i was born and raised in the coldest portion of Canada ,i have since moved , but the summer is as hot as it ever was and winter is as deadly cold as it ever has been

i had never once denyed global warming , but i want solid proof in front of me that its my fault before i beleave someone because that is how they make their money
a fool beleaves what is being preached to him without proof

global warming is the modern day dragon , if you keep the people in fear they will follow like sheep

You want proof? Really? I'll make it simple for you. You and I and everyone else are products of our natural environment. What goes for us, by logical extension goes for our environments and vice versa. We cannot breathe the exhaust coming out of an automobile, and neither can our environment. It's that simple.
Look to the north as the ice melts for your paradigm of doom. Look at how toxic the human lifestyle of consume and discard has become. The earth cannot handle us at this level. Anyone who says that mankind has a minimal effect on the environment has obviously never been to a landfill.
While you are looking for evidence and simultaneously denying every scientific study put forth by reputable researchers in an effort to hang on to your whimsical idea of being apart from the pack, apart from the sheep, apart from your environment, your planet is burning around you. Maybe not in your neighborhood, but I live in Fla., and I can tell ya, the weather here is getting crazy. It's the middle of Oct, it should be seasonably cold, but it ain't, it's warm, some would say hot, especially at this late date.
Keep telling yourself that you and your opinions of totalitarian intellectual propaganda are the reason for people being afraid of billion year old ice caps melting.
You're right and everyone else is wrong.

dertsap; Let me give you a bit of advice :) if you argue with an idiot then you have two idiots arguing.

I think we both know that the Canadian wine industry goes back more than two years. I would not call anyone who disagrees with this an idiot but I will certainly call them uninformed, in other words ignorant.

Geof,
I suppose your still clinging to the same opinion even after I pwned it with the article that you didn't read. You are right though, that this discussion is going nowhere as long as I'm the only one contributing any fact whatsoever to it.
Also, that was nice how you used my words in the end of your post. Believe it or not I'm used to that sort of thing. It happens alot. I shoulda been a writer.

dertsap; Let me give you a bit of advice :) if you argue with an idiot then you have two idiots arguing.

I think we both know that the Canadian wine industry goes back more than two years. I would not call anyone who disagrees with this an idiot but I will certainly call them uninformed, in other words ignorant.

hey i resent that !

we've been making it for some time but i really cant beleave its due to any warming , if it is bring it on ,i'll just shave the dog sled team once we're up a few degrees warmer

hey i resent that !

we've been making it for some time but i really cant beleave its due to any warming , if it is bring it on ,i'll just shave the dog sled team once we're up a few degrees warmer

It wasn't intended as an insult :).

Wow,
I just read through my own posts and now think I should apologize for being so rude.
Sorry gents, this is sort of my favorite liberal subject harp on.

Wow,
I just read through my own posts and now think I should apologize for being so rude.
Sorry gents, this is sort of my favorite liberal subject harp on.

This is very gracious; I apologise for any snide remarks that could have been interpreted as pointing your way.

It wasn't intended as an insult :).

i know , i didnt think it was

(nuts)(nuts)We got about 100 years left as a species on this planet. After that, life for humans will be like a bad sci-fi movie. We'll be living like little rats in holes, we'll only come out at night due to the heat. There won't be any food or water left. The fish will all be dead. Livestock won't be available to the poor who will number in the tens of billion by then. All the natural resources will be gone or polluted to the point of fatal toxicity to humans. Roving hordes of cannibals will be the last humans to live on earth, or at all really, where else will we go? Ohhhhh, looky my huge novelty check from liberal billionaire George Soros just arrived. I'm off to take away your guns
I won't get political here. Global Warming is real. AND, so is evolution. Why discuss that here? Isn't there some sort of CONservative blog membership that you've attained for this sort of discussion?
:withstupi :withstupi :withstupi :withstupi
Yo slow down dude and smoke another one and relax, Even the best climitoligist say the earth will warm by only 1/2 a degree in the next 100 years. Just like it warmed 1/2 a degree in the last 100 years. I mean come on man life is not a video game. (Resident Evil) I saw the movie too it was great my boys loved it!!
Give me your address buddie I will send you a nice big fattie you have obviously run out. Just Chill man chill

:rainfro: Bluesman :rainfro:

[QUOTE=Bluesman;357028 I mean come on man life is not a video game.
I will send you a nice big fattie you have obviously run out. Just Chill man chill

:rainfro: Bluesman :rainfro:[/QUOTE]

after a big fatty wouldn t it feel like a video game , a slowwww one

*yawns* Mars is going through a similar warming to that of earth... now you can't tell me that human activity has casued this.

Not to be pedantic, but I can't see how my not being a veggie tree hugger would affect mars... oh dear, could it possibly be a natural phenomenon?

*expects the usual hypocritical hyperbole from the huneducated hippies*

ps- I like veal.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Here's the full article for those who would like something more than "Global warming shocker! all life to be dead by next Wednesday (apart from politicians cos they're not really life)".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece

I don't see how Mars and Earth can be equated in the same terms. Earth for
instance, is populated by life. Whether or not Mars is getting hotter isn't
my concern. I can although, testify that wildfire season in California has
just begun this year with the worst and earliest fires that state has
witnessed in recorded history. Could this have something to do with the fact
that there has been no recorded rainfall in the LA basin for over 150
days? Hmmm, possibly.
Listen, we can all sit round, waxing philosophic about climate change now.
But in parts of Northern Russia, people are reporting that their permafrost,
this is ground that's frozen year round is starting to melt. That ground has
been frozen for around 400 million years. It contains, among many other
things in it's icy grip, dinosaur pooo. When the methane from that shhh
gets released, watch out. It'll be irreversable, it'll be the single
largest amount of methane this planet has seen since before mankind walked
the earth. It might even stack up to the amount of Methane in your totally
irrelevant argument. But really, the science isn't yet in on that
comparison either.

Science?
There is no science in Global Warming. It is all Political.
Any discussion of Global Warming that does not account for the fact that the sun is hotter is BS.
The data that Global Warming is based on was recently corrected by the same people that it originated from. Bet you didn't hear that on the news.

Science?
There is no science in Global Warming. It is all Political.

No, it's not. Politicians of a certain persuasion, not party mind you, want to make this political to defend their corporate masters and ultimately their own hides. Then they either sponsor studies with known outcomes, implement policies of denial, or or do what politicians do best, lie.

Any discussion of Global Warming that does not account for the fact that the sun is hotter is BS.
The sun doesn't just get hotter one day, after being the same temperature for such a long time. Not in under 100 years anyway. It doesn't make any sense. That sounds to me like something that came out of a think tank with Ayn Rand books in the waiting room. In any case, I invite you to prove that.

The data that Global Warming is based on was recently corrected by the same people that it originated from. Bet you didn't hear that on the news.
No, I didn't here about that in the "news". Apparently, every reputable climate scientist in the world had some sort of meeting that I didn't hear about where this "happened". Since I'd like to know, please enlighten me, and provide a link, or two, or ten.

I firmly beleive that the major cause of global warming is the amount of hot air that proponents of the myth issue forth in great uneducated and unwanted volumes.

Anyway, apparently Global Warming is going to cause a mini ice age.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8398

So I figure on buying all the real estate on the border of the Globaly warm bit and the ice agey bit. I plan to import ice to the hot bit and sell sunny holidays to the icey bit. Wooly mammoth tours optional.

LMFAO next they'll be telling us that wearing black socks on a Monday is bad luck and you should never machine Beryllium without a respirator :) bloody scientists.. I've been machining Uranium for years and noth.... *argh*

Dang


HOTTER SUN

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml


TEMPERATURE DATA CORRECTED 1934 not 1998 the hottest year

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/08/09/hot-news-nasa-fixes-flawed-temperature-data-1998-was-not-the-warmest-year-in-the-millenium/

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1188138748158480.xml&coll=2

Corrected But....

http://www.pewclimate.org/analysis/nasa_us_temp

Political

"Politics is the process by which groups make decisions. It is the authoritative allocation of values. Although the term is generally applied to behavior within governments, politics is observed in all human group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics


"Science" is being driven by the current political atmosphere around Global Warming.

I used to be be an ardent believer that humans were the cause of global warming. I'm now neutral on the science as there is lots of it pro and con.

There so much "cafeteria science" (picking just what you like) on both sides of the argument. It is hard to filter all the bias and get a true picture. Personally I believe we should be actively doing something about it just in case humans are a factor. There is no doubt that warming is occurring for whatever reason.

Very well put. Here's some info from The Times Online. Written by Nigel Calder, top man.

Just a pity that so many others who propose that global warming is a load of old bollards don't get published - oh dear could it be that it's a govenmental scam to get more taxes off us? they wouldn't do that would they? nah....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1363818.ece

Will we survive? WHO CARES! I know I won't. What makes you think we are so special?
We have only been around about 1% of the time that the dinosaurs lasted. We so far are just fly poop in the pepper as far as the history of this planet! maybe we will last for awile maybe we won't but the planet will go on, life of some kind will go on. Don't spend one minute of your time worrying about the planet, worry about feeding your kids and their kids and not making too much of a mess doing it and the planet will take care of it's self.

If you look at the last 2 years of Predictions about how bad the hurricane seasons were going to be and look at how they were the least active on record it makes you wonder.

1st- They can not tell me where a hurricane is even going when one exists.

2nd- They can not even predict the next years amount of activity with anywhere near acceptable accuracy rates.

Yet they expect us to believe they know what will happen in 20, 30 or 50 more years from now.

researchers need money to have a job, what better way to get funding than to make global warming a political issue. After all the politicians have everyone else's money to give out so without them panicking who is going to agree to another 10 million here and 20 million there for more research.

Incase you never noticed at the end of nearly all research grant reports they insert a standard line which usually reads something like "While the research performed has shown some points of data in agreement with the studies objectives more time and research will be required to determine anything further." This can also be read as we spent all our research money and now we need more, if only you give us another grant so we can keep our jobs we can give you more useless data in a few years to again justify more grant money and of course keeping our jobs.

Bowman