Just sent you by email new Gcode files created with ArtCam Pro. Hope this time we will get it run fine;)

I replied to your email. Very nice of you to continue working on this.

Thanks,

CarveOne

Sorry, I couldn't respond the PM's u sent. Its our EID day and was quite busy in party's and freinds. Don't worry, I will not let u alone in the Grip G-code till the problem resolved;)

My apologies for interrupting the parties Khalid. Parties must always come first. :)

You are THE MAN! The new grip file is so much better - as it makes much smoother, and a little faster grips than the original two files. The only change I needed to make in order to run the file is to comment out the G71 with parentheses, as it is not recognized by EMC2 and will prevent the file from displaying on screen in AXIS. Do you know what that is supposed to do? It made no noticeable difference in the finished grips. A web search shows it to be an automatic tool change command or a lathe setup command on commercial cnc machines. The diagonal cutting routine really cuts nicely and puts less side load on the cutter.

I made a short digital video of it cutting today but the video file is 20mb. I'll cut another pair tomorrow and reduce the camera resolution to something more reasonable.

Here are some more photos of the dust collector hose mounting and a close-up of one idler. The dust collector will be set aside until some sort of skirting has been obtained. It doesn't work very well without a skirt.

There is also a photo of a 12" circle I cut in 3/4" 10 ply plywood at 0.450" depth in one pass with the Harbor Freight trim router and a 1/4" carbide router bit. This was an unintended stress test (it groaned a lot but nothing broke or bent and no missed steps). I just wanted to see how round the circle was after cutting a .125" depth (oops!) The circle measures 0.040" under size and is consistent all around it. At least it is not an oval.

CarveOne

Wow..great machine..Its look like commercial one now..:)..Can you please share the pics of the grips that u have done recently;)

I will do so later today. I have been away from home most of the morning.

The grip pair will be carved from Poplar this time. It is a moderate density native American wood that is used mostly for making furniture and cabinets. It machines and accepts stain and paints well. Usually it's nothing special to look at as far as colors and figure.

I will try to take a decent video, and also cut a pair from RenShape 440, a pinkish color engineering prototype mold material that I use to lay up fiberglass "skins" for wind tunnel models.

Last evening I used some left over vinyl siding to make hanging panels inside the oak frame of the cnc machine to help contain the dust and debris from getting to the computer and monitor. They will be hinged so that a sign panel or door can still be slid under the frame for carving. The vinyl panels are just taped in place until I find some better means to hinge them. The outward appearance doesn't look too bad.

Do you have any problem with me posting the file where others can download and use it? The original files I sent you were on a website for free download.

Regards,

CarveOne

Hey CarveOne. that machine looks very nice. I wont be showing my solsylva any time soon. pretty much getting all hacked up, adding this changing that lol. What lead screws are you using?
I,m thinking of rebuild mine with aluminum and making it a 4x4. using the same plans just bigger. Cant see why it would not work. If Joes 4x4 works why would the solsylva not?
Any way your machine looks awesome. Graham

grahamshere,

I'm using 1/2-10 single start presently with Xylotex 425 ox/in steppers and their controller. The speed tops out with this combo at 24 IPM with 1/8th stepping. Please use acme instead of all-thread rod. You won't regret it. I am using the Enco low budget acme rod I bought on sale for $9 each. 1/2" rod will cause some design changes to accomodate it but it's worth the effort.

It is doing useful cutting (finally) but I will be changing it to 1/2-10 5 start (I have three 6' rods and Dumpster ABNs on hand now) and then ordering the Gecko G540 as soon as I can scrape up the money. This change out will be done as part of building a new steel chassis and gantry, or I'll make new red oak x and y rails to lengthen them so as to make use of the full 6' acme rods on the x axis and ~ 4' gantry. Enough acme rod will be left for two pieces of acme rod that will be used for a dual leadscrew, single belt drive, z axis I'm thinking of making from aluminum plate. This should give about 3' x 5-1/2' x 8" working area if my mental gyrations are even close to being correct. I'm not planning to do the changes until next year.

Edit : Oh yeah, doing this Solsylva design in 8020 extrusion instead of 2x4 lumber should be a relative piece of cake to do and will be a very nice machine.

CarveOne

I have the exact same set up, acme as well but I,m get 50 plus ipm with mine, why the big difference?
Next build will be with 8tpi 4start, how much resolution do you think would be lost?Graham

Don't know why. What are you doing better than I am? :) I'm using EMC2 and Ubuntu 8.10 Linux. If I raise the max. velocity setting above 4.0 I get "growled at" by the stepper. What are your velocity and acceleration settings?

CarveOne

While playing movie director today I was holding my digital camera steady by propping on top of the end plate where the x axis belt drive and stepper is located. That little bit of load on the oak end plate caused the shallow grooves in the grip panels. I know it was me because I started the video a little before the hole location and removed my hands from the end plate just after the hole was cut. It resulted in the wider shallow groove at the hole. The other shallow grooves are located where I put a little pressure on the end plate at other times. Only the wood fuzz has been sanded off at the top surface. Pretty interesting how it cuts a round hole while making straight line passes "over" the hole.

CarveOne

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/fullbull_223/Solsylva%2025x37%20CNC%20Router/th_PA020001.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/fullbull_223/Solsylva%2025x37%20CNC%20Router/?action=view&current=PA020001.flv)


http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/fullbull_223/Solsylva%2025x37%20CNC%20Router/th_PA020002.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/fullbull_223/Solsylva%2025x37%20CNC%20Router/?action=view&current=PA020002.flv)

I,m using mach3, maybe that's why, My velocity on the x is 50 and y is 70, the accel is set at 10 on all axis, maybe you need dampeners, you maybe getting resonance. graham

Velocity is set at 10 also, but increasing it to 30 only makes steps sound a little louder. It doesn't help any with raising the velocity setting. I'm using the power supply that came with the Xylotex system kit. I had the software speed indicator showing 70 IPM for a while but I found that the actual movement distance was shorter than the indicated distance on screen. I was using 1/4 stepping at the time.

I made the caster wheel dampers from the Solsylva site and I can't tell that they do anything useful.

CarveOne

If your movement distance was shorter than suppose to be maybe your steps per is not set right? try down loading mach3 and try that and see if there is a difference. by the way watching your video it looks to me like your traveling faster than 24 imp but could be wrong, I,ve been know to be that an awful lot lol.By the way, love your work shop.:D , that's green with envy lol. Graham

I should time it between reference marks instead of going by the speed slider on screen. A 12" circle I cut in plywood measures 11.960" by my 12" dial caliper.

I just tried changing the max. velocity from 4.0 downward to 1.0 in EMC2 on a pc I have in the house. The IPM slider shows the following:


4.0 - 240 IPM
3.0 - 180 IPM
2.0 - 120 IPM
1.0 - 60 IPM

I'll try some things in the workshop cnc router pc tomorrow. Something is holding back the speed other than the velocity and acceleration settings. Maybe the steps per revolution or the driver microstepping settings are incorrect. I'll also check the microstepping switch settings on the Xylotex controller board.

This morning's effort was to cut the grip panels using RenShape 440 material. These won't be any good for actual use on a firearm but it gives me and my employer an idea of the finish quality I will get when we need to make a mold for fiberglass parts for R/C models. These turned out as smooth or smoother than a lot of the molds I have worked with from our supplier. Some of theirs have been a lot of work to prepare for fiberglass parts lay-up. They can do much better with their 5'x10' ShopBot but it would take two days constant running to complete the cut on something like a military jet wind tunnel model mold. Those are usually a large top half mold and bottom half mold. The top surface ridges on this scrap block of RenShape material are band saw marks that I didn't bother to sand smooth as I did for the bottom surface.

CarveOne

hmm making models for wind tunnel testing..another great idea for a home cnc...and model making in general.. grips for .22 pistols, and street signs so much to do and make ....so little money and time :)

One of the big things in the R/C model hobby is cutting the Depron foam parts for R/C model "Foamies". I'll try cutting a few of those. Making parts for architectural engineering models can be done with Depron sheets on cnc machines. Lots of uses for these machines.

Later today I plan to see if this thing can mill aluminum grips at a slower feed rate. An intentional test to destruction? Maybe. After that I'll find something else to work on for a while with this machine.

The 1911A grips file is working well now, thanks to Khalid's help, except that the screw hole size is a little too large. Need to resolve that in background mode.

CarveOne

The cnc machine took another day off while I helped with a charity yard sale most of the day. I bought a donated new-in-box Craftsman All-in-One Cutting Tool kit. It has a case, rotary base, circle cutter, and plunge router base in the kit. It had no dust in the router or case as if it has never been used. There are 1/4" and 1/8" collets with it. The 1/8" collet has a piece of broken cutter inside that is only half way inserted in the collet. It looks like whoever bought it had no idea of how to install a cutter bit. Not a bad deal for $30usd. 20,000 or 30,000 rpm speed settings. 5a @ 120vac. It has round places that fit 2" or 2.5" mounting holes. It will eventually end up being used on my cnc router machine.

CarveOne

sounds like a nice find!...

its funny as to the cutter..a friend brought a "roto-zip" to work ...i asked him to bring it so i could see how much power they had if it could be used on a cnc router ,we put a .125 (1/8 inch) cutter in it and grabbed a board laying nearby and shoved it right on thru the board...we also cut some slots with it ,...it did smoke alot....then we realized part of the time it was "cutting" we were shoving it thru where the cutter didnt have any cutting edge....lolol :) ..again it had no problem going thru the pine board ,it was a carbide cutter about .500 (1/2 inch) long running on the high setting if i remember right...(which i seldom do) :)

hmm ya could even design a totally new foam plane, cut it out, test it for stability, and sell the design to a major company that might want to build the new plane for mass production in say a foam injection machine ....really no limit to what can be made on a home made cnc huh? (my personal limiting factor would be imagination)

as to milling aluminum ...if your machine is rigid enough it should cut fine, if not, alot of vibration may plague your attempt at cutting. use some type of lube if you can, maybe as simple as some "wd-40" or kerosene sprayed on your material .any kind of oil will help keep the aluminum from sticking to your cutter and "gall up" on it which will clog up the flutes and make it no longer cut and will most likely break the cutter (and ,or) move the machine out of alignment

good luck!! i have always been interested in home made cnc machines cutting metal, nearly any can under the right conditions i would think...it just may not be really fast or high production...but part of the fun is just to BE ABLE TO CUT IT AT ALL ..right? especially under cnc control. even then the accuracy you can get cutting slow ..would still be faster than cutting with a hand saw :)


again good luck!!


(ace = sometimes long winded)

Yeah, they make an end cutting bit and a bit with no flutes on the end. I wonder how many people have discovered that by not looking. The 1/4" shank to 1/8" collet adapter kit I bought came with one of each type of bit.

When I try the aluminum today I will use a little WD-40 and edit the gcode to slow the feed to around 5 IPM because the initial plunging down into the aluminum 1/4" deep will probably be more loading than the diagonal cutting. If it looks like it can handle it I'll stop and edit it again to run it a little faster.

If the feed overide option allows it during code execution I will just use that instead of editing the file. I'll try that function before cutting the aluminum.

I'll also check out the steps per unit settings to see if I have that number set correctly. If it is wrong, then that explains why it isn't displaying the correct IPM. I think for my 1/2-10 1 start acme, 1/8 step, inch mode, should be 16,000 steps per unit. Right? Or am I using fuzzy math and arriving at the wrong number?

CarveOne

200 steps per rev ,in 1/8th step mode (one step broken into 8 smaller steps) is 1,600 steps per rev,or 16,000 steps per inch (guessing thats what your refering to "unit") so yeah i think your steps are set right (just dont bet the house on my math) :)

dont really know why the speed is off , (dont have a machine to test any ideas on) but just a guess..if your accel.,decell. were really high (taking longer to get up to speed, longer to slow back down) and you are moving over a small distance moves ,it would never reach top speed right?

try cutting a strait line (well it dont actually have to cut ,the router can be turned off ,just move strait) and do the time trial you mentioned,

say for instance,..program a move of 10 inches at 10 inches a minute.or 5 inches at 5 inches a minute..should take you one minute to get 'er done ,if it takes less time or more time perhaps the accel,and deccel .values are off?

Does emc2 have a setting that you can check to see if every thing is set right.mach3 has a screen thing called set alt6, I'm sure you would have the same thing some where on emc2, and steps per is 1600. Graham

.xXACEXx. -

I was in the workshop doing what you suggest at 6am today. I guess I read your mind before you did. :)

I went out to the work shop this morning before my last post and checked the jumper settings on the Xylotex controller board. Only the enable jumper is installed on the header for each axis. This is correct for 1/8th microstepping.

I ran the stepconfig utility and the steps per unit number is 16,000. I spent some time trying to increase the x axis speed and determined that the caster wheel dampers really do work, but only if the spring tension is very light. I had the spring compressed too much previously.

I had been running the x axis acceleration number at 10 while cutting the grips, so I dropped it to 1. When I ran the stepconfig test routine over +/- 3" distance the direction reversals slowed down a lot. I changed it to 2 and it makes a quicker, more reasonable (to me) reversal speed so I left it there. I then changed the velocity setting from 4 to 5 while running the test, and then to 6. At 7 it has missing steps immediately so I set it back to 6 and went on to the Y axis settings.

The y axis would only work with a velocity number of 5 without missing steps. I loosened the bolts in the middle of the y axis gantry beam so the trucks would possibly self align on the tube rails. That brought the velocity to up 6 without missing steps and it misses steps with 7. I set it back to 6 and snugged the nuts that tighten the tubes, then verified that 6 does not again cause missteps.

The z axis is really zippy for its 4 1/2" travel range. It's facinating to watch it move + and - 1" with acceleration at 2 and velocity at 1.2 (yes, it's really 1.2). It looks like a yo-yo on a really short leash. :)

I suppose I now need to find out why the x and y won't run as fast as the z axis. Wouldn't that be "kewl".

Back inside the Axis display the speed slider now goes to 72 IPM on all axes! The override limits option was not the one I was thinking of in my previous post. It's the feed override, which is now needed to slow down the program to something that won't cause missed steps. In the grip file's case, it has to slow down to 20 IPM or less. The stepconfig test program seems to run the test much faster than manual jogs can run in EMC2/Axis without missed steps. Not sure I understand why that is.

I ran my 12" circle program again and it still makes a round circle of 12" diameter.

I intend to fiddle with the damper spring tension and larger wheel diameters and make new ones with the ball bearings in pockets to test. Also see if the bearing trucks are a little too snug against the pipe rails.

The aluminum grip test will be put off until I get more comfortable with the reliability of the new configuration numbers. I'll cut another pair of poplar grips first. During my testing this morning I snagged the 1/8" ball nose end mill on the plywood base plate when the router wasn't running and broke #1 of the two I found in my junk stash. (Golly gee, pshaw, shucks, bummer, *%^#@$!!!)

CarveOne

I borrowed a TrendNet TEW-423PI wireless G network card from a friend yesterday to see if it will work with Ubuntu Linux on my cnc computer for internet connection out in the new workshop. I decided to bring the computer in the house and hook it to a lan cable and download the latest updates for Ubuntu and Firefox.

When that was completed I opened the computer and installed the card. Two hours later I had it up and running. :confused: TrendNet doesn't have a Linux driver for it but I located a Linux forum that had a posting back in early 2007 about how to use a WindowsXP driver in cahoots with a Linux ndiswrapper installation to get it running. Some manual editing of mysterious files down in the bowels of Ubuntu using the VIM editor was needed in the process and it's a good thing I remembered enough of the VI editor commands to use that instead of the Thunar editor (where do Linux geeks get these names from anyway) that was in the instructions and isn't one of the default editors. I finally managed to enable the right network settings and reboot enough times to have the Linksys router see it (encrypted no less) and then I could use the email and web browser. :banana:
But, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, it doesn't work out in the new workshop. (chair) Looks like I'll have to try the old aluminum foil trick on the antennas or wrap some coat hanger wire around the antennas, or go buy an outside booster/antenna for it. (100watts output ought to just about do it.) Bummer, but at least I know the settings are good to go when it finds a decent signal even if it's not my wireless router. :)

CarveOne

you reading my mind before me? sounds fine to me,just lemme know how it turns out...so i dont have to be the one to make the mistake :) :) actually i dont think you read my mind...as it is encrypted and i lost the source to read it my self..lol

sounds like your getting it worked out...any certain speed your wanting to achieve?..or just have it work as fast as it can reliably? it may have been mentioned,and you have prolly saw it already...but there is a thread about making dampeners for the stepper motors so they wont stall out as easy..still cutting slow is better than cutting with a hand saw huh? ...especially if you can trust it to walk away and come back when it is done..

Does emc2 have a setting that you can check to see if every thing is set right.mach3 has a screen thing called set alt6, I'm sure you would have the same thing some where on emc2, and steps per is 1600. Graham

EMC2 has a Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL) oscilloscope feature and a means to watch the pins change state but I haven't tried to use it so far.

1,600? 16,000? What am I doing wrong?

CarveOne

Just trying to work the bugs out and make it run as fast as it reliably can with these lead screws. Vibrations and resonances due to the 425 oz/in steppers don't sound very good. Instead of ball bearings in the pockets of the damper wheels maybe honey, STP, or Silly Putty might be worth trying. :)

CarveOne

Wow! I wonder who's connection it is? Mine wasn't working last night. :)

Cool beans, it already has three new updates ready to be installed.

Later,
CarveOne

I made a short digital video of it cutting today but the video file is 20mb. I'll cut another pair tomorrow and reduce the camera resolution to something more reasonable.

Can't tell if you are a Windows user or Ubuntu only. If you have Windows, M$ has a free tool called Windows Media Encoder (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/default.mspx). Every useful for gettign those large files under control. Even better again for Microsoft is Windows Movie Maker (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/getstarted/default.mspx) (comes with XP BTW). I'm not a big fan of MS, but these are some very well made tools and they are free. I use the second one now exclusively. the nice part is that in addition to tiles and such, I can specify the filesize of the final file and it will reduce the audio and resolution to match that.

Not big on Linux so not sure what fills that niche.

Jay

Jay C,

My main computer has Win XP Pro on it and my two other computers have Ubuntu v8.04 and are mostly for the use of EMC2 and the cnc machine I built. One of the Ubuntu computers is triple boot with Win ME, Ubuntu 7.10, and Ubuntu 8.04. All three are connected through a Linksys wireless-G router. Only the Ubuntu computer that has recently been moved out to my new work shop is on a wireless connection. Neither Ubuntu computer accesses the Win XP computer for file sharing although they can do that. I can use the internet from all three of the computers.

I have the Windows Movie Maker but haven't looked at it to see if it can adjust file sizes and I haven't used it since I bought and installed Win XP Pro. Thanks for saying so and I'll see what it can do with that file. Windows Media Encoder is one I haven't heard about. I'll try massaging my videos with Movie Maker in the near future.

CarveOne

Does emc2 have a setting that you can check to see if every thing is set right.mach3 has a screen thing called set alt6, I'm sure you would have the same thing some where on emc2, and steps per is 1600. Graham

In the EMC2 stepconf wizard where I find the 16,000 number (AXIS scale) it is not an editable text box. That number is automatically calculated based on the numbers I typed in the following boxes:

Motor steps per revolution: 200.0
Driver Microstepping: 8.0
Pulley teeth (Motor:Leadscrew) 1.0 : 1.0
Leadscrew pitch: 10.0

My y and z axis lead screws are direct drive. The two x axis lead screws are belt driven using the same size and same number of teeth pulleys on the motor and lead screws.

CarveOne

I guess the question then becomes .. .why are you using 1/8th stepping on a 10tpi leadscrew :) I use 1/4" on a 5tpi ballscrew, maybe you should try 1/2 stepping. Is EMC limited in frequency at all?

Have a look (http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg03354.html).

My 2 cents,
Jay

This (http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PulseRates) may be related as well.

And this (http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration)

Thanks Jay C,

I'll change the controller jumpers and EMC2 stepconf wizard to 1/4 step and then 1/2 step to see how things run. I guess I'm running 1/8 step because that was how the board was set up by default. And I'll read the EMC2 wiki sites you linked to. There's a lot I don't understand yet about tuning this thing.

CarveOne

From what I read on the second link (my second message) you first need to run the latency measurement to get a worst case scenario to begin setting up your time base .. .which in turn will determine the maximum pulse frequency and thus how fast you can go without missed steps. You can help yourself by getting that 16000 down to something more reasonable :)

Jay

Jay C,

I changed the controller jumper to 1/4 steps and updated the stepconf configuration file to match. The machine is running much quieter now. The remaining buzzes are hardware related that I can easily eliminate. I'll spend some time today reading the EMC2 wiki. Right now the machine is running nicely.

CarveOne

My excellent progress with my cnc machine has come to a screeching halt. Sort of. My boss called me back to work yesterday after having three months off to build the workshop, set it up, and then go back to work on the cnc machine. There were no projects to do at work during that time.

We have two projects that will keep us both working late hours for a while. I'll only work with the machine on the weekends that I don't be working. I was starting to feel like I was retired already. I got a lot done around here during that time though. Not sure how long this new work will last though. I'll be checking activities on the 'Zone' daily though.

Thanks for all of the help everyone, the cnc machine is now at a point where it can be useful for work related parts making.

CarveOne

Over the past weekend I located Les Paul Standard guitar IGES models for my next cnc router project. My boss's son wants me to make the guitar parts for him. He's going to NC State College this semester taking engineering courses. I advised him to learn as much about CAD tools as he can absorb in addition to his required courses. Not being one to make anything easy for me, he wants a left hand version. This will give me plenty of exercise in learning the CAD software necessary to do the project for him. I hope he is a very patient guy.

Tomorrow I will pick up materials to build two more 4'x8' work tables for the workshop. One of these will go in the space that has been reserved for the CNC router room and I'll move the CNC router machine to that work table before I put up the partition walls. The other work table will be a general use work table. To cut some cost I'll use 3/4" MDF for the tops instead of the 3/4" birch veneer plywood I used on the first two work tables.

CarveOne

Hi everyone,

Looks like the build log forum activity has slowed down lately.

This weekend I cut lumber and assembled the two additional 4'x8' work tables I mentioned in my last post. There is some minor work left to do before I stain and apply polyurethane finish as I did on the first two work tables.

A friend has donated a second 24" deep by 49" wide by 72" high five shelf storage unit and I'll pick it up during the coming week. Available floor space is rapidly being occupied.

Not much has been going on with the cnc machine since I went back to work on a more or less regular schedule. I'm collecting .dxf files for a library of things I may want to make eventually. An acquaintance dropped by to look at the cnc machine and the new workshop this weekend. While demonstrating the machine it stalls at any speed over 20 ipm. In warmer weather it was running fine at over 60 ipm. I may end up moving it back into the house over the winter months or just loosening up the clearances enough to allow for the temperature variances. The work shop will not be heated this winter.

CarveOne

While at Lowes on Thursday morning buying polyurethane for the new work tables I checked the price of 7/16" OSB panels. Back in June I saw it for $5.78 a sheet. I bought 38 sheets to panel the inside walls at $6.22 a sheet the following week. It went steadily upward over the summer and peaked at $9.97 a sheet during hurricane season but I didn't buy the sheets I need for the ceiling. I saw the price had dropped to $5.14 Thursday morning so I hitched up the trailer and picked up 45 sheets last evening after work.

This probably means that with my luck the price will drop another $1.00 just because I didn't wait longer. Once these are installed I can partition off the room that the cnc work table is in. I intend to install the OSB sheets over that area first in case it takes me a while to finish the ceiling work.

CarveOne

yeah ..ya know this is TOTALLY off subject but ill tell it any way.. :)

back in the summer milk was $5.50 a gallon for choc. and $5.00 for regular 2% ...i noticed the other day it was back down to under $5.00 for the choc. ...didnt catch the price for the 2% but was prolly cheaper also..


see i told ya it had nothing to do with a router, but you still read it any way :)

(ok ill crawl back in my hole in the ground now) :) :)

Seems like we get gouged by everything we buy anymore. In the case of the OSB, I was just not going to be gouged for that cheaply made stuff just because there might be a hurricane somewhere in the Caribbean that probably wouldn't come near me anyway. Well, that and not having any money left in the building fund.
:)

I hope my next cnc acquisition will be a Gecko G540 and a power supply for it.

CarveOne

you actively lookin for the driver or just on your want list? any faults with the current driver..(it is performing as well as it was supposed to perform?) or you just wanting better faster driver? (assuming everyone one the green earth has heard of the g540) :)

seems every time i think i can afford to get some stuff purchased for building a machine , something comes along like needing new tires for the truck :(

and you know what else? , that $4.93 a gallon choc milk tasted just as good as the $5.50 a gallon milk did , as it was the same thing...weird huh? :)

The G540 is on my list for machine build #2 and I'm going to buy it asap, probably before Christmas, so I guess the answer is "yes" to both questions. My contract job has not been paying very regularly this year and I'll be filing the paperwork for early retirement in the coming week to help bridge the gaps in pay while I continue to work on the wind tunnel models and RPVs as we have jobs to do.

The second cnc machine will be steel construction and will be a table top design that fits on the 4' x 8' work table that I just built for it. I will be putting the oak edging strips on the two work tables today and applying coats of polyurethane over the next couple of days. I stained the white pine lumber yesterday and fitted the OSB bottom shelf surface sheets yesterday.

edit: Looking for a better, faster, higher voltage, driver for my Xylotex 425 oz in steppers or will get new steppers if needed and eventually sell machine #1 as a ready to run machine.

CarveOne

Thanks for the great log, I will be reviewing this log as I build my own design. I want to convert my duplicator to CNC. This thread and your instructions have given me valuable guidance.

Thanks

Hi Fiddlemaker5224,

Thanks for the complement and for reading my build log thread.

If you haven't seen it yet there are some photos and comments on my manual duplicator scattered through the thread. I didn't cnc it but you may find it of some interest anyway. Searching this thread on 'duplicator' and 'Copy Carver' should find something.

I have not regretted using better wood than the plans called for, and would highly recommend not using the small all-thread rods shown in the plans. They work, but have very slow speeds. Use 1/2" or larger ACME multi-start rods and ~300 oz/in steppers to get better jog speeds. Overall, I like the general Solsylva design and it's large enough for making most musical instruments.

If you get serious about building one of these and use larger acme rods the legs and bearing blocks may need to be modified a little to allow additional clearance. Nothing major, as it just means moving the holes that the rods pass through when you make the legs and bearing blocks. Maybe enlarging the holes if you use 5/8" rods. The drive belt will be affected also, as the idler pulley mounting hole may need to be moved a little so that the belt can be properly tensioned. For the 1/2"-10 ACME rods I kept the same hole centers and just relieved the side rails enough to clear the larger outer diameter bearings that I chose. The bearing block hole was just enlarged the proper amount.

Using aluminum motor plates has been a good change also. I recently replaced the nuts and washers that mount the plates with nylon insert lock nuts and can now remove and replace the motors without affecting alignment of the x axis belt and couplers on the Y and Z axis. The "back side" nuts don't move when the front side nuts are removed, and fine adjustments can be made without much effort.

Enjoy whatever you build/convert and please share it with us. Comments and questions on my build is welcome.

CarveOne

CarveOne

Thanks for the info. I have posted photos of the duplicator in another thread, lot of down loads of them but not much response.

Do you think that the 1/2 2 entry acme will work out well for the speed?

The number of starts depends on the stepper motor specifications and other factors, but for ~270 oz/in steppers I would think they should work fine. The most often recommended ACME rods for my Xylotex 425 oz/in steppers is the 1/2-10 5 start. The number of starts should be picked to give the best torque while running the stepper within its speed range without the rod(s) whipping. There are more knowledgeable people here than I when it comes to the technicalities involved in calculating the correct number of starts for a given setup.

I currently have 1/2-10 1 start on all three axes of my 25x37 machine. I have 1/2-10 5 start rods and DumpsterCNC anti-backlash lead nuts on hand and will use them sometime in 2009 on a new machine that will use the full 6' rods on the x axis and a third rod will be cut to ~ 40" for the y axis. I want the machine to fit on a 49"x97"' MDF work table top without the steppers protruding beyond the 49" table width. This should have around 3' x 5' working envelope for use with a 1/4 sheet plywood or MDF panel, or a 36" wide custom door if I want to carve it or add family name and house number to it. A 6' tall door will be able to overhang the table top if necessary. Should be able to carve a base fiddle top on it? I don't know the size of those.

I've seen your duplicator in the Musical Instruments forum. I think it can be converted using some of the existing parts but I don't think the pivoting router arm assembly will remain. The linear slide and rail from it will potentially be useful.

CarveOne

I've seen your duplicator in the Musical Instruments forum. I think it can be converted using some of the existing parts but I don't think the pivoting router arm assembly will remain. The linear slide and rail from it will potentially be useful.

CarveOne

Thanks for the info I will design a new gantry. Your project log and help is greatly accepted.

Thanks

I finished the two new work tables this past week and the three coats of clear satin polyurethane on the MDF tops looks pretty good. I finished the last coat yesterday. On Tuesday I plan to move the CNC machine and computer to the permanent CNC work table that will eventually become enclosed by partition walls with blown in insulation just for the sound dampening. An outward opening door will also help close off the noise.

Today I started installing 4 mil polyethlene sheeting to the underside of the rafters for a moisture barrier (the attic has a ridge vent and vented soffits.) It will take four pieces 8' x 40' to cover the rafters before installing 40 each of the 4'x8' x 7/16" OSB ceiling panels that I have waiting to be installed. I installed one of the plastic strips today, and had to take down and reinstall three of the 8' light fixtures to do it. 20 of the OSB panels will need to be shortened roughly 12" to fit. The plastic sheeting should help a heat pump use less power.

When all of the ceiling paneling is completed and painted white the light level should then become almost intolerable (I hope). I don't like working in a dimly lit room. The work shop will then be ready for blown in insulation and a heat pump installation sometime next year. Will post some photos when the paneling is installed and cleanup has been done.

Tomorrow will be lost on a job related all day business meeting trip 250 miles or so away from home. It will mean some new paying work though. Good thing to have nowadays.

CarveOne

A friend and I started installing the OSB panels this morning, and after installing two of them we decided to quit and I'll hire the guys who originally built the work shop to do it for me. It's going to be more effort than either of us novices can do ourselves (and have the panels installed correctly). It doesn't help that the rafter spacings are not equal, and the stuff is heavy. Using a 2 x 4 lumber "T-bar" to keep it in place helps, but not much.

Last week I moved the CNC machine and computer to the work table that it will stay on permanently. It is arranged so that the group of four arrow keys on my keyboard match the cnc machine x and y directions. Now I don't have to deal with keys that don't point in the direction that I need the machine to jog toward. :) The machine is air cutting a newer 1911A grip file that can do a couple of checkered sections. The EMC2 display is showing the tool path. I'm having to debug the gcode file for use with EMC2 and my three axis cnc machine. There is one more bug in the checkering section of the gcode to figure out.

CarveOne

The original building contractor jumped right on the ceiling project I offered him. He and two helpers arrived this morning just after 8am and the four of us had finished installing the 40 sheets by 3:30pm. We also installed a new attic ladder I had on hand before they left at 4:30pm. Now the work shop can be heated without losing so much of it through the ridge vents. Happy days are coming in the work shop. :)

I demo'd the cnc machine for them and they were dumbfounded by it. They had never seen anything like it before. :cheers:

CarveOne

after receiveing my plan book with the 25 X 37 and cathering up the parts,, and reading all the post, i know i will not be useing althreads or belt drive.. will be getting the stepper kit with 4 and have one slaved should take care of the belt wlipping if there is no belt..also building out of a good hard wood someting to stain....

after receiveing my plan book with the 25 X 37 and cathering up the parts,, and reading all the post, i know i will not be useing althreads or belt drive.. will be getting the stepper kit with 4 and have one slaved should take care of the belt wlipping if there is no belt..also building out of a good hard wood someting to stain....

Sounds like a good plan to me. Gecko G540 and ~250-300 oz/in steppers will work nicely. Use multi-start acme rods (1/2-10 5 start is the general recommendation for my 425 oz/in steppers).

My belt was slipping and motors stalling because I had cold weather contraction causing binding at the lead screw nuts on the rear of the x axis and Y axis. I had almost no clearance in warmer weather and an interference fit when the weather got colder. The 425 oz/in steppers will make something give a little before stalling. Works fine now.

CarveOne

Sometime next week I will receive three Gecko G203V (Vampire) drives, hopefully not squashed during the holiday shipping rush. Now to find a suitable power supply for them and get that on order. These are primarily for my next build but I'll use them on the 25x37 until needed on the new machine next year.

CarveOne

would you use these insted of the 425 oz gecko's on the 25x37 ?. if these are better i would rather start with them insted of haveing to upgrade later

The G203V is the drive module for each stepper motor. The 425 oz/in stepper motors I have are sold by Xylotex.com and came with their 3 axis controller kit.

These G203V modules are the best of the hobby class Gecko drives that can drive my 5A/phase stepper motors to full power. Right now the motors are running at reduced voltage and current in bipolar series mode. They have resonance problems at certain speeds and the homemade dampers I made don't eliminate it. The Gecko drives have mid band resonance reduction, short and open circuit protection, over temperature shut down, and are called "unkillable" . (IE, just what I need. :)) They have other very useful features. Check out the FAQ on the http://www.geckodrive.com/ homepage and look at the G203V and G540 drives.

The G540 is the best deal for the typical ~270 oz/in class stepper motors that are used on the 25x37 machines. It comes with four G251 drive boards mounted in one package (no motors included) so you can run three or four motors with it. One of the internal G251 drives can be used as a spare on three axis systems. They currently sell for $299usd.

CarveOne

We just got in some samples of 23 frame 620 oz-in rated at 3.5A in series and 7A in parallel. They are optimized for use with the G250 drives (ones in the 540). We make and sell a series of desktop/mid size controllers (BladeRunner) based on the G250 drive. We have been selling 350 oz-in and 570 oz-in but they were not optimzed to run at the correct current out of the Gecko's.

We are testing now and so far the performance is impressive.

TOM CAUDLE
www.CandCNC.com

Thanks for the new info Torchhead.

I looked for switching power supplies briefly this morning and found that 7a through 15a at anything like 48vdc and above is going to be really expensive unless I find a used one for sale. Looks like my steppers will remain wired for bipolar series for a while, but I have an old Harrison Labs rack mount 40vdc 10a power supply that works ok for other uses that will help somewhat.

Do you sell or know of sources for more affordable modular power supplies that will run these motors well in bipolar parallel with the G203V? I was at your site this morning looking but didn't see power supplies listed separately. I just now looked at the package deals and see that you series connect two 24v 6a power supplies to get 48vdc @ 6a. Any recommendations? I'm looking for more speed and torque with these motors than the Xylotex controller can give me for my next build. I'll keep your new packages in mind also.

CarveOne

rigrandy,

Here are your 1/4-20 round nuts sir. I won't be able to get them to you until after you leave, but if you would rather that I hold them until you get back in January I'll do that. Email your reply. Thanks.

A couple of "action shots" thrown in with the finished parts shot below.

CarveOne

Sometime next week I will receive three Gecko G203V (Vampire) drives, hopefully not squashed during the holiday shipping rush. Now to find a suitable power supply for them and get that on order. These are primarily for my next build but I'll use them on the 25x37 until needed on the new machine next year.

CarveOne

Same day turnaround. The order went out the door by ~4pm. Can't beat that kind of service.

CarveOne

Now u will really have a Fun;)

Now u will really have a Fun;)

I sure hope so Khalid. I should see much better performance and less noisy operation with the G203v drives and higher voltage power supply.

I see that you have been really active with your very nicely done carvings. Your idea to switch the x and y axis planning is very interesting.

The weather has turned cold here lately and I need to bring the cnc router back into the house to do any real work with it. I'm still busy working on the workshop when it's warm enough and haven't spent much time with the cnc machine except to demonstrate it to a few people.

Teaser -
I am collecting materials for a second build as I can afford to buy them. Sometime soon I will start a new build thread for the planning stages for it. It will be a little different, and hopefully interesting to watch. Some wood, some steel, and some aluminum extrusion will be used. It will look somewhat similar to the EZ-Router Scorpion in general appearance and will be approximately 4' x 8' in overall size. I expect to use Ahren's bearing blocks for this effort. And of course, there will be some pretty wood used in the construction. :)

CarveOne

Carve one - take some tips from the chinese machines - search for the excitech thread on teh cnc zone, worth watching

also look at this for controls and software - http://www.techlf.com/cnc4au_fr.php3,

I am not associated with them in any way - but this looks like complete package though.

RGDS
IRfan

Hi Irfan,

Thanks for the suggestion and the link. I will certainly look at the Excitech thread to see what is happening there.

When the time comes I will be removing the 425 oz/in stepper motors from my 25x37 machine and installing them on the new machine along with the new G203V drives. The 25x37 machine frame is well built, sturdy, and I'm not sure at this point if it will be offered for sale as a complete machine without steppers and controller. It sure has been enjoyable to build though.

Before removing the steppers I need to take a good high resolution photo of it so I can convert it to gcode for carving it into a large red oak mural for the work shop wall. :) (I'll bet that our friend Khalid would like that idea.)

CarveOne

Carveone here is the long thread of excitec - folks have shown a lot of close shots of the machine.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46637

Thanks Irfan,

I remember seeing the thread name but did not investigate it yet. There is so much to look at here isn't there?

CarveOne

I was asked to try cutting a Lexan part for a local guy who says this part is no longer available for sale anywhere and wanted to see if it could be made on a cnc router.

I drew it in TurboCAD 12 from a tracing that he made of the only one he has and then used the free version of Cambam to generate the g-code file.

Looks like it is doable to me. The four critical dimensions are 0.003" too long but that can be corrected easily enough. The first test cut was in 3mm Luan plywood and I then cut two 1/8" thick Lexan parts for him. 1/8" carbide end mill, 15 IPM, 0.125" depth of cut. It takes more time to clean the fuzz off the edges of the Lexan than to cut it.

If any of you know what this is, you know more than I do. :)

CarveOne

These little Vampire cuties arrived today. They are primarily intended for build #2. They won't be installed until I'm sure I have everything well understood and a suitable breakout board on hand.

The next acquisition will be the 1/4"x4" steel flat stock for the x, y, and z axes, but that will have to wait a little while longer. Meanwhile I'll start doodling around in TurboCAD and SketchUp 7 to see what I can come up with.

CarveOne