Hello All, I been here a couple of months but am new to post. I have just finished building a water table for our new 4X8 Torchmate 3. We have been cutting for a couple of weeks now and most everything is going very well except for a few concerns.

1. during operation of the torch cutting the flame is throwing water back up onto my machine and all around. Most guys I've asked say they set the water level at just right under the material thier cuttting. Is this correct or should it be a little lower? What is the recommended height of water to material?

2. and -- Is there any chemical or process I can add to my water table to get rid of the rust the water is causing not only on the slag left by the cut but also (more importantly) to the support slats in the water? The table itself is coated in rubber --but the slats are not. I am having a lot of rust build up on the support slats of the table.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
hot rod kid

Don't worry about the rust, as you will need to replace the slats long before they will rust out. The interesting thing about rust is once it totaly covers a piece of metal it acts like a coating, and slows down it's own progression. Most coatings that you could put on the slats would give off fumes as you cut into them.

Contact the following company about a water table additive.

Koal Industries
Elk Grove Village IL
847 956 9720

Product would be Koal Quench 617.2

Never thought about that. Before the time they would rust away they'd need replacing anyway. The side supports that hold the slats in place are stainless so there is no worry there. I was going to use the old method of arm and hammer wash and a battery charger connected to two stainless rods in the tank to just keep the water cleaner --but on second thought and a little research I am afraid the current will affect or harm the motors and torch height control on my machine! Don't want to do that---- they don't give that stuff away.
Thanks for the input.
hot rod kid

Thank You --I'll check into this today.

The water splashing back shouldn't be of any concern unless it were possible to soak the motor or height control connections enough to short out the electronics. On the Torchmate 4 we've never had any issues with it.

We also recommend the Koal Industries plasma quench. Although we haven't had any issues with tables that don't have any additives in the water. The slats will rust, as will the material if you let it sit in the water.

While cutting we usually recommend having the water level at the top of your slats or just touching the bottom of the material, this is the most efficient at collecting smoke and dust as well as an added bonus of keeping the material cool.

Hello Mike, I think I'm going to try the Koal Industries plasma quench --I think it'll solve my problems with that. The water splashing up is not terrible but does make a little bit of a mess. The water does not get on the connections or motors but does splash back up on the T gantry slide rail some.
I'd like to say --- You guys have been GREAT as far as helping me out with getting the TM3 up and going! There has been no lack of support from your end at all --and I really appreciate that. Not to mention the machine itself is WONDERFUL! I researched many machines on the market and scanned cnc zone a lot before buying. And at this point I couldn't be happier.

I'll post some photos of my table before long. We made 2 tables in one. The outer table is made in the shape of a square U. The inner table is the water table which I can unbolt and roll out of the U table for cleaning away from the machine itself. Water table is sealed on the inside with a truck bed undercoating spray on rubber. I'll have photos later on.

Thanks again Mike
hot rod kid

Does any one know of any other product that does the same as plasma quench.
I contacted them back in May and placed an order and paid etc. it is now July and no plasma quench with plenty of excuses.
Has any one else had good or bad experiences with this company?

thanks
Clint

Someone a while back posted the mixture for making your own plasma quench...May want to do a search? Not sure how well it worked.


Mick

I'll throw in my 2 cents for Plasma Quench. I've been using it for almost a year now, and don't have any problems with rust or odor. Great product. According to the MSDS sheet http://http://www2.hazard.com/msds/f2/bqr/bqrcv.html , Plasma Quench's major component is Sodium Nitrate.

Bad experience with Koal , they charged my credit card ($300+) and never shipped.....don't order unless they ship collect.
I tried to contact them many times, and was told that it would take time to process the order. I think they are in finacial trouble.

buyer beware!

I still have not received my Plasma Quench over two months of waiting.
They have moved to the bonnie lane and they have several complaints on their two previous addresses.
If you have paid for Plasma Quench and not received it. Then here is the information to
The Attorney generals office, phone number is 312-814-3000 ask for the consumer fraud division. They will be happy to help.
Thanks
47MLB

47MLB Thanks for the heads up. I'll give the Attorney generals office a ring.

regards

Hi All,
I ordered Plasma Quench two weeks ago and have not received it. I will call them tomorrow and see what's up. I'll post the results.
Mike

Oh Oh!

I called them today. They said they would call back. I called again. They said they would call back. I told them that I read a piece on the internet about maybe sending a call in the direction of the attorney general's office. They never called back. Tomorrow morning I will call them just to let them Know that I am calling the attorney general's office. I will turn them in tomorrow morning. I only paid for 5 gallons, but they act as though they have never heard of me. They have billed my card. I will send all of the information to the attorney general's office and let them take care of these thieves.
Mike

This is all very unfortunate. I really like Plasma Quench. Oh well, I guess I need to start looking for a supplier of sodium nitrate. I hope you guys manage to get everything worked out.

Hi,
I will get it straightened out. I do not like being messed with. I gaurentee my work and my product. I expect the same from all others. KOAL Industries has changed owners. If you call their number, you get a receptionist for several companies. I hope to resolve this without a fight, but fight I will.
Plasma Quench is made up of Sodium Nitrite,((nuts)not nitrate), and Physan 20 with some dye added. I don't know the percentages, but I shall find out. You can buy the ingrediants on Ebay.
Mike

Here is were I buy my sodium nitrite http://cgi.ebay.com/Sodium-Nitrite-99-5-One-Pound_W0QQitemZ270259754747QQihZ017QQcategoryZ413QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem sellers name is quartzpegmatite. I use 1.5lbs for my 300gallon watertable. The physan20 you can buy lots of places just google or ebay it. The only rust I have comes on some of the steel I cut and that just sinks to the bottom. If i dont stir it up cutting you can see to the bottom of the tank, water is clear. You can use food dye if you like about 1oz per 75gallons seems to work. With the dye you can see how you cuts are going better but have to drain the tank to find small parts. I keep it clear as I need to get small parts out alot.

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I will order some sodium nitrite from your source. I found them on ebay. How much physan 20 do you add?. I have a 201 gallon watertable.
I am very happy with how my watertable cuts down on the plasma dust. I have only filled it to within 3 inches of the top. I will fill it up when I get the quench mixture in it.
I hope everyone will make their own solution and not get ripped off by KOAL or whoever they are now.
These forums help us all avoid problems and learn new ways to progress in our ventures.
Thanks to all,
Mike
Pennington Sales and Service
530-310-1449

Hmmmm - Hope I am not a day late and a dollar short again. Just read this thread and I had called and placed an order w/ Koal for plasma quench this morning. Mumble, mumble. I will keep you posted on how my experience w/ them goes.

I talked to KOAL again today and after telling them of my plan to go to the Attorney General's Office , they said they would Fedex my order right away. I told them I wanted a tracking number by tomorrow morning. We'll see what happens.
Mike

Yeah,I ordered from KOAL about 2 months ago,never was charged for my plasma quench and never recieved any either.You would think they would want to make money and sell their product.Oh well, running washing soda now in my water table like many others.

aicomp,

You may want to check your sources. According to the MSDS sheets, Plasma Quench is made with sodium nitrate, not sodium nitrite. Can one be substituted for the other? I don't know. This is a question for someone with more chemistry knowledge than myself.

aicomp,

You may want to check your sources. According to the MSDS sheets, Plasma Quench is made with sodium nitrate, not sodium nitrite. Can one be substituted for the other? I don't know. This is a question for someone with more chemistry knowledge than myself.

Hi Jcar,
You are correct. I just read and found that it is in fact sodium nitrate. I will look that up on the web and see where to get it.
Thanks,
Mike Pennington
Pennington Sales and Service
www.penningtonfab.com

aicomp,

Out of curiousity, I took a look at my empty Plasma Quench container this afternoon. According to the Hazmat info on the container, it contains "nitrite" salts. Who knows what's going on??? Sodium Nitrate has one more oxygen molecule than Sodium Nitrite. Perhaps it's just a little more potent, and either can be used. Just in different quantities. I'll do a little more digging and see what I can find out.

aicomp,

Out of curiousity, I took a look at my empty Plasma Quench container this afternoon. According to the Hazmat info on the container, it contains "nitrite" salts. Who knows what's going on??? Sodium Nitrate has one more oxygen molecule than Sodium Nitrite. Perhaps it's just a little more potent, and either can be used. Just in different quantities. I'll do a little more digging and see what I can find out.

Hi,
Maybe we should all do some investigation on the web. I have no chemistry background, and am only interested in stopping rust and gunk from forming in my new watertable. I now have only an inch or so of water in it and am waiting to get some good goop before putting the other 5 inches of water in. I figure my table will hold 201 gallons when full. Actually, I am haveing great reduction in smoke and dust with the level 4 inches below the top.
Mike Pennington
penningtonfab.com

I have been having problems getting product guys so I tracked down a gentleman listed as managing director of Koal and sent him an email. I put in the address of this thread so he could see the problems experienced in trying to get Plasma Quench. Hopefully he will drop in here, take a look AND SOLVE THE PROBLEMS. I remember the saying about the squeakY wheel and the grease.

SQUEAK - SQUEAK - SQUEAK - SQUEAK!

Hello All,
I have been using a product in my table from Zep called Anti Rust. According to the Zep rep that comes around it is the same stuff as Plasma Quench. I used Plasma Quench for years until I was also no longer to get it. I have been using the Zep now for 6 months and it works just as well as the Plasma Quench. Zep products are available just about anywhere. Just my 2 cents.

Hello all!

I was going to order plasma quench but after reading the various comments, that is clearly out of the question, so I began doing a bit of research on my own and combined that with modest chemistry experience and decided on a home brew approach.

Both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate are used as anti corrosion passivators on ferrous and aluminum materials, often together.

Generally when sodium nitrite is used, it is used in conjunction with sodium borate as a PH modifier. Also Sodium Borate is itself a corrosion inhibitor. Sodium Nitrite is available as previously stated on ebay... or your local chemical house in larger quantities. We get it from Rocky Mtn Reagents. The price there is 75 dollars for a 50 pound bag. To order from them you will need a business license though.

The Sodium Borate is a bit easier. :) Its sold as 20 mule team borax at your local supermarket, most likely. You will probably want to run about .2 to .5 percent sodium nitrite by weight to water, and about .5 to 1 percent or so borax. In our table which we have just set up recently, I am currently running a bit lighter concentration though and it seems to be working very nicely. When first filled with water, before any corrosion inhibitors were added, steel drill shavings or such would form rust deposits nearly immediately on the stainless steel water table bottom. Now with the inhibitors in the water, I added some drill chips in a specific location just to test it.. and after 2 weeks, they are still completely bright and shiny. Not a trace of rust.

As for a biocide, I stopped by my local pool supply store and purchased a copper amine based algaecide. It was cheap and seems to be doing the job though its early to really tell. Its ingredients are not the same as the physan 20 previously mentioned, which is based on quaternary ammonium, but I am guessing they would work just fine. Your local pool store will have LOTS of different brands of biocides that should be suitable for this use. Also they are very readily ordered for quite good prices, from internet sellers. Compare active ingredients to find the best deals.

Good luck all

Just 1 question: Are there any detrimental human health issues that arise as a result of adding chemicals to the water? I'm not concerned about the water itself, but the steam during cutting.

regards

"Just 1 question: Are there any detrimental human health issues that arise as a result of adding chemicals to the water? I'm not concerned about the water itself, but the steam during cutting."


Hmmm... good question to ask.

Just a guess, but I am thinking that one would need to breath LOTS of steam to be exposed to any risky amount of chemicals in the coolant water. I would think the greater risk is via absorbtion through the skin.

The three ingredients I listed are generally considered low toxicity even when ingested in small amounts, so personally I am guessing that there is not a large hazard from inhaled vapors of the coolant at the levels that might be produced by a plasma cutting table.

Running a plasma cutter though, even with a water table will produce various assorted metal vapors and smoke from any contaminants on the surface of the metal being cut, (and some fine dusts) that are dispersed into the air. You really want to try to avoid breathing these if at all possible. This is especially true if you are cutting stainless steel, or plated metals (cadmium plated or zinc/galvanized) A ventilation system that reduces the exposure to the plasma exhaust gasses would be a good idea.

:)

What a helpful thread. I live on porous granite and have a well, has anybody researched why it would be bad to for the ground water to dump out your table water? Has anyone tried different colors other then green....say maybe blue. I was wondering if it was green to disguse the alage it doesn't kill.

Heard a truck in the drive today and Fed Ex was here and dropped off a pail of Plasma Quench. I am glad to FINALLY get some. If you have read this entire thread you know the problems that people have been having getting product from Koal Industries. I managed to track down the managing director for Koal and gave him a phone call. He was very surprised about anyone having problems getting Plasma Quench. I told him the story of the problems I and others had been having and as he was on his cell he pulled to the side of the road to talk w/ me about it. He stated that they had some major problems with credit cards wherein there had been some hanky panky going on and had lost quite a lot of product through fraud. So they are not really processing credit cards currently. I let him know that if they had simply told me this I would have been more than happy to mail them a check instead of just being put into limbo waiting for something that never arrived. He did take my information and called their ware house and got a pail of Plasma Quench sent to me. I did give him the address of this thread and let him know that he really should check into things and maybe put a reply in here. Whether that happens or not time will tell but I got my Plasma Quench. Remember the squeaky wheel folks!

We recently placed an order for some, and when we told them about some of the people having problems purchasing the Plasma Quench the man on the phone seemed suprised. He told us they had it in stock and ready to ship.

We recently placed an order for some, and when we told them about some of the people having problems purchasing the Plasma Quench the man on the phone seemed suprised. He told us they had it in stock and ready to ship.

Pretty neat how they would be surprised. I have called and given this thread on many occasions. I have also still not received the Plasma Quench that I was billed for and was sent an invoice to pay again. This is a group of totally incompetent morons.
My Opinion,
Mike

For about $10 per 300 gallons you can treat the water with the same chemicals as in Plasma Quench. Plasma Quench cost $70 for 5 gallons plus truck shipping... Maybe $125 to get 5 gallons to your door. I called the skirt at Plasma Quench and she didn't have a clue as to the mix ratio. She said the chemist might know she only takes orders (money) LOL...

My question is to those who have been unlucky or lucky as the case might be to actually get a pail of plasma quench. What is the mix ratio? Is it a 5 gallon pail or smaller (again the money taker didn't have a clue).

John

I too ordered a pail of Plasma Quench and after two months and many phone calls, I'm wondering what the hay? They have not sent the product after taking my credit card number twice! Cannot give me any information as to my order. Now the poor secretary has me call the warehouse and yet no one answers! What a terrible way to run a business. I'm thinking now that even if I do get my initial order what about when I need a replacement for the treatment.
I DO NOT recommend this company for lack of service even if the product works well.
Any one have any other resources for an antirust product or know what I can do to make my own?
Dennis

Plasma Quench may work... if you can get them to send you the product.
I don't know how they stay in business. They take the order but do not ship. When you call to inquire, the poor secretary can't tell you anything because the warehouse is not available. A very poor customer service company. I'll not buy from them. I did read some where that RV antifreeze will work. Anyone know about this?
Dennis

It's easy to get sodium nitrite and pysan 20 from flea bay. Just do a search on here for the amount to use. It cost me about $15 for each one and got it the next day. Same as plasma quench but better and more cost effective.

John

Thank you John for the tip. I check it our this evening.
Dennis

Hi all

Seems impossible to find any water rust inhibitor for plasma table use here in Sweden due to the strict safety regulations.
Does anyone have experience of using sacrifice anodes instead?


Jens