Hello

I have two hardinge VMC's and have strange noises that come from the head of the machine.
I was hoping that some one on the group might have a hardinge machine also and might be able shed so light on the subject
Thanks
JBO

We only just bought a VMC 800II, I can't say I've noticed any strange noises from the head, well not yet anyway.

Hi Darc

Does your machine have a siemens control or is it faunuc?
We have solved one of the strange noises, it turned out to be the rotary union for the through spindle coolant.
If you have siemens control we would be only to happy to help if needed.
We have found the control to be a little tricky in some areas.
Thanks for responding to our post

JBO

Sorry JBO we have a Fanuc control, holy crap these machines move FAST.

Were abouts in Melbourne are you DARC?

Were did you get your machine?

We have found the machines to be very solid and are very pleased despite a few teething problems at first.

What rapids does the Faunuc run, we have 30m on X Y Z no time for an error!!! you have to be sure were you are going.

30meter/min? slowpoke, shoulda bought a DMG, 70m/min in X, 40 in y and z......

Actually I'm in Western Victoria (Country Bumkin), we bought it from computer numerical control in Melbourne, ours also runs at 30m/min.
Damn Gus 70m/min, I tell you I'd want to be standing in a pile of sawdust before I hit go, helps to soak it up.

We got ours from CNC as well, they have been great to deal with.
70m/min!!! Hold on to your hats thats fast!

JBO

What is the CNC max programable feed rate?
Fast rapid is good, but that is not for machining. Don't misunderstand me, I'd love to have a CNC capable of Rapid Traverse rate of 2,755 inches per minute!
How fast have you cut aluminum?
Steel?

Hi Scott_Bob

We have a programable feed rate of up to 12m/min
We have never run that fast but often machine 6061 T6 aluminium at 3.5m/min.
We use a 16mm 2 flut end mill from YG-1 designed for aluminium we take an 8mm depth of cut with 80% cutter engagment and away she goes.
You can profile in 2d at these speeds with no problem at all in terms of keeping your contour.
If you are moving all 3 axis at once the machine will slow down and retard the feed rate to the maximium that it can read ahead.
Our machines have a 300 block look ahead which for most of our machining is more than fast enough.
Feed rates are very depenandt on the type of work you are doing but some times we are finishing cavitys at upto 2m/min with a ball nose cutter in P20 material.
Our machines have 8000rpm spindales at that controls our achievable feed rate to some degree.
We have found that 2500-3200mm/min in aluminium with a 16mm 2 flute end mill with the above depths of cut to be a reliable formula.
We have gone faster and deeper but have trouble with the cutters pulling out of the collets.
I hope this has helped a little and would love to here back on your machines and expierances

JBO

Run out of spindle speed[12k rpm] before feeds become a problem. I think around 300 ipm is as fast as I cut

Hi Gus

what control do you run on your DMG?

jbo,

I share your opinion that, a lot of factors affect our ability to go fast in feed rate.
We cut a lot of 6061 t6 aluminum, and a tool steel material called Ramax.
It is a magnetic stainless steel for molds, thats good for us as the humidity alone in the air ends up rusting our molds if we make them out of P20. Similar characteristics though to p20, hardness of Rc38 to 40, it is pre-hardened so we don't harden after machining and it is free of impurities that cause cutting tool failure (hard spots). It polishes nice too, holds up well in our high pressure, high volume molding operation.

Our VMC is a Fadal w/ a new retrifitted control called a Rubicon or Numeryx, it has 15k RPM, is programmable to 700"/min. or 17m/min. feedrate.
On the aluminum part side, we are able to machine accurately (within .005") up to 500"/min or 12m/min.
On the mold steel side, accurate (within .001) up to 150"/min or 3.8m/min.
Only light cuts of course, at finishing scalop height or step overs.

Personally, I think the CNC control is the biggest contributor to the equation of high speed machining. And I have been wondering about the performance of the Siemens...

heidenhain

oh yeah, I run a 3 flute pm end mill Ticn, 8000 rpm, full width 1/2"depth 110 to 150 ipm, finish at 300 ipm 12k kinda fun to watch


25 inch x travel, can accel run the length and stop in about a second.

or about a second faster than you can hit the emo

Scott Bob

We have found the siemens to be a great control, can be a bit tricky at times and we dont have the greatest of support down here.
The control is very powerful and has a lot of things to be fiddled with which can be a problem.
My control is the 810D which is only a single proccesor, the 840D is a twin processor and is very fast indeed.
We can machine faster than I have stated, but have found the previously mentioned speeds and feeds suit our sitiation at present.
We are trying a few different approaches at present from heavier depths of cut with a moderate feed to smaller depths of cut with a much faster feed.
We machine alot of D2 tool steel which is fairly tough and can be savage on cutting tools, so finding a balance is tricky.
JBO

Hi Gus

I believe the hiedenhain to be a very good control.
A good friend of mine runs them and he produces some fantastic work.
Do you guys run any CAD CAM softwares and if so which ones?

JBO

I own three hardinge VMC's ... purchased all at once ... VMC1000II and two VMC600II ..... My 1000 is great(2004 demo model) ... it is one year older than the two 600 .... The 600's are 2005 models and have positioning problems (under warranty) .... in the morning it will have a .006 shift until it gets warm ... the right half side of the table does not repeat on both machines ... it will vary by .005 about once an hour ... about 2 or 3 times i noticed that my Z shifted by .002 exactly ..... This is noticed in both machines .... we keep our precise parts on the left side and rough with the right side .... I would buy another .. but after seeing this I will invest in a japanese machine next time. I do get some noise in the spindle on my 1000II , but was told it is just a belt problem. If anyone has similiar problems .. please let me know, thanks

Hi Leupp1

do your machines have siemans controls

I dont think whether you have a siemens or fanuc makes a difference ... both should not have a repeatablity problem or a large temperature shift.

I can only comment on the siemens control from expierance, but our machines require regular tunning ( every 4-6 months ) or they lose there repetability. Our VMC600 gets the gitters when machining a circle, this disappears when the machine has been tuned but creeps back over time.
I have been told that this is not possible but yet it occours.
Our service agent does not have an answer.
I know some one that has had a faunc controlled machine for 12months longer than my VMC600 and they have never had to have there machine tuned.
It should not need tuning like ours do but they do.
We have had this problem since there commisioning and we have shifted plant and the problem still is there.
Our spindals are driven by lugged belts which become very noisey after a while and need regular tensioning the keep the noise to an exceptable level.
We had the twin V belts but these were changed because of belt slip and wear causing the belts to fail.
We do get some funny noises from our spindles some of which are belt related some not.
While I have had my fair share on trouble I still believe the machines to be good value for money compared to other machines in its price bracket but next time i will by jappanese

Wow .... i didnt know anyone else had the same problems i have. Yeah im starting to have belt noise or some kind of banging noise in the head ... im told its just the belt .... sounds like bearing crunching sometimes ... these machines are brand new and have the new paint job that makes them look so good .... they are very inexpensive ... From what im told ... they are really YANG machines from taiwan with the hardinge name slapped on it ... i guess you get what you pay for .... i havent had the problem of jitters when machining in a circle ... i hope i never do ... if that happens, im dumping all my machines. Its too bad that such a quality name is on such machines ... thats why i bought them thinking it would be superior quality. My machines are under warranty and for about 8 months they still have not fixed my problems. I have ladder problems with my 1000II VMC ... the tool changer in manual mode does not work ... and they dont know why ... they dont even have a record of my machine .... i really expected more from hardinge ... i left HAAS for Hardinge .. thinking i would get something better .. now im rethinking HAAS again ....

ZPS will not disappoint you.
Try some glass scales next time!
The accuracy will out live the casting/fabrication.