Hi Guys

I have been trying to read up on a lot of info, My main aim is to make PCB's and I am on a tight budget (isn't everyone?), I could probably stretch to £1000 (I am in the UK).

I was looking a proxxim MF70 that was already converted but have noticed that it has an SMC 800 card which will not work with Mach 3? And there seems to be very little in the way of software for it.

I have looked at a Seig X1, but I do not know where I could get the conversion kit.

it does not have to be a converted mini mill but seems the cheapest, what would you reccomend remembering I am in the UK, where can I get a CNC machine for PCB's for less that £1000.

I was going to save up for a cncdudez machine only to notice they no longer make them :(

DJH

I doin't know what taig will go for in UK, but it works great for pcb. (in US, you can set one up for $1500) sherline will probably work as well, but taig is much better machine. also, some type of smaller cnc router may be another option.

for x1 conversion, check out cncfusion.com main issue here is spindle speed.

Hi Guys

I have been trying to read up on a lot of info, My main aim is to make PCB's and I am on a tight budget (isn't everyone?), I could probably stretch to £1000 (I am in the UK).

I was looking a proxxim MF70 that was already converted but have noticed that it has an SMC 800 card which will not work with Mach 3? And there seems to be very little in the way of software for it.

I have looked at a Seig X1, but I do not know where I could get the conversion kit.

it does not have to be a converted mini mill but seems the cheapest, what would you reccomend remembering I am in the UK, where can I get a CNC machine for PCB's for less that £1000.

I was going to save up for a cncdudez machine only to notice they no longer make them :(

DJH

Hi, I don't think I'd recommend the X-1 - it's spindle speed is 1/10th of what you want.

Have you seen this place - I'm not sure if it's a Taig or a sherline, but they seem to be the UK distributor: http://www.peatol.com/

If you really want an X-1, I have CNC Fusion's kit, which is superbly made IMHO - you're looking at 2-3 weeks for delivery into the UK, with VAT etc to pay on arrival.

If you don't mind a bit of DIY, I suppose you could buy a spindle & motor from peatol and mount it on the side of a CNC'ed X-1!

Consider mounting the Proxxon IB/E handheld unit onto the side of a CNC X1. This works very well as a lightweight high speed spindle for PCB work (I use mine on alu and brass and carbon fibre sheet on my CNC X2). A friend of mine has this actual setup and it works nicely.

Here is a pic of mine on my X2:

http://pic16.picturetrail.com:80/VOL660/2777486/6910876/216662537.jpg

The X2 is probably less suited to PCB work than the X1 as it is slightly more involved to CNC it and doesn't have such a large working area in X and Y. However it does have more Z travel and is a lot more rigid and powerful if you ever want to do heavier duty milling.

So say I got started with the X1

What would I need?
The X1
Cncfusion kit
3 Stepper motors (what ones tho? as oz/in etc)
controller card (stepmasternc ok?)

Anything else I would need?

Whats involved in adding the spindle to the side?

Thanks

DJH

Hi there,

It may be worth while speaking to CompUCut about high speed spindle options for the X1. They do a lot for the X1 and on their website they mention using some kind of adapted spindle with a small router motor to get up to 30000 RPM - this may be just what you need as far as spindles go.

http://www.compucutters.com/machines/x1Project/x1projectMore.htm

Regards
Warren

Hi Guys

I have been trying to read up on a lot of info, My main aim is to make PCB's and I am on a tight budget (isn't everyone?), I could probably stretch to £1000 (I am in the UK).

I was looking a proxxim MF70 that was already converted but have noticed that it has an SMC 800 card which will not work with Mach 3? And there seems to be very little in the way of software for it.

I have looked at a Seig X1, but I do not know where I could get the conversion kit.

it does not have to be a converted mini mill but seems the cheapest, what would you reccomend remembering I am in the UK, where can I get a CNC machine for PCB's for less that £1000.

I was going to save up for a cncdudez machine only to notice they no longer make them :(

DJH

Hi DJH,

A couple of questions for you; do you have plans to cut anything else other than PCB?
How handy are with wood working tools?

I would not recommend a milling machine for PCB; imo you need a lighter faster machine and with this in mind I would recommend building something like this.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15835

If that looks too complicated there are other simpler designs which would work well in the CNC Wood Router Project Log or DIY-CNC Router Table Machines forums. I do not have any build threads of my own but I have built four different DIY machines so if you need help with sourcing parts in the UK I have a long list of suppliers; just PM me and I will do what I can to help.

If you still want to go the X1 route then I would ask digits for an estimate on his X1 set up. I would think that you may very quickly eat up your budget if that includes software as well but I may be wrong.

http://www.cncfusion.com/micromill1.html

http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/ I recommend for stepper motors and drives.

You may have already seen these but if not it will more than likely be of interest to you on the software side http://www.mr-bean.co.uk/pcb_stuff/pcb_stuff.html and http://www.brusselsprout.org/PCB-Routing/

Good luck,

John

I have thought about building one out of mdf but was worried about resolution, the time it would take to build, plus the fact i don't even have a jigsaw let alone a table saw etc. What are your thoughts on them?

I thought about the X1 as it looked rugged and the fact there are kits out there for them.

My original choice was this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230153203011&rd=1&rd=1

What are your thoughts? I know I cannot use Mach3 etc with it as it has a an SMC 800 controller, but I did think about asking him to sell me one without the controller so i could buy one.

As far as software goes I have Mach 3 and Kcam around here somewhere.

I main aim is to mill pcb's, but I would also like to make some custom items for model railway aswell as some light aluminium work (such as making a new spindle holder etc)

If I went with the X1 do I just need the controller, steppers and the conversion kit?

what would I need for a home built machine? what sort of cost would I be looking at?

thanks

DJH

I have thought about building one out of mdf but was worried about resolution, the time it would take to build, plus the fact i don't even have a jigsaw let alone a table saw etc. What are your thoughts on them?

I thought about the X1 as it looked rugged and the fact there are kits out there for them.

My original choice was this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230153203011&rd=1&rd=1

What are your thoughts? I know I cannot use Mach3 etc with it as it has a an SMC 800 controller, but I did think about asking him to sell me one without the controller so i could buy one.

As far as software goes I have Mach 3 and Kcam around here somewhere.

I main aim is to mill pcb's, but I would also like to make some custom items for model railway aswell as some light aluminium work (such as making a new spindle holder etc)

If I went with the X1 do I just need the controller, steppers and the conversion kit?

what would I need for a home built machine? what sort of cost would I be looking at?

thanks

DJH

TBH, I really think £1000 is a very tight budget for CNC - you are bound to spend several £100s on tooling and measuring equipment once you have the machine.

If that tiny Proxon is good enough for you, you could always chop off the controller and buy some stepper drivers for it. Is 160x80mm really the biggest thing you'll ever make though?

I would strongly advise you to avoid stepmasternc like the plague - mine actually caught fire in use, and was missing steps at random before it died. Spend some money on some drivers from Motion Control Products - about £40 per motor-driver IIRC and it'll just work as it should.

I still don't think I'd recommend an unmodified X1 for PCB work - even with a a high-speed spindle. IMHO You would need to fix the jerkiness of the Z-axis with a counter balance or some linear rails, otherwise I think you'd snap a lot of 0.8mm drills while drilling out PCB's.

Thank you this is really what I needed, tho it means im a bit more lost, it's better than buying the wrong thing.

I know what you mean about the £1000 and I totally agree but it is all I have at the moment :(

The proxxon I can get with an extended table 16cm x 10 cm, not much of an increase I know, perfect for pcb's that I will be making, but not for much else. Would it be enough to help make parts for another cnc machine in the future? Like motor mounts and spindle holder?

I guess the proxxon is kinda suited to small ish pcb's due to it's small and lighter design? Do you think I would have the same problems with the Z Axis?

If I did go with the X1 im presuming linear rails means 2 rails either side of the leadscrew with a mount at the top and bottom? My problem would be getting or making a mount, or would the x1 be able to make it once cnc'd but before it is has the z axis fixed?

Thanks for the tip about MCP I was wondering about controllers, I presume they work ok with mach 3?

Im really struggling with what to do, I do feel that the proxxon will limit me in the future, but yet it seems the cheapest option. The Proxxon works out £679 delivered including the extended table, a pcb clamp and a dust vacumn atatchment. Then I need the tooling etc but leaves a few hundred for that or I could also buy the mcp controller

I want to find out what motors he uses, hopefully theyre stepper motors with and nmea 23 fitting and ok ish power.

Sorry for all the questions, any advice welcome.

DJH

One of the things that crops up with CNC beginners is the wish to buy/build a machine that will multi task. The reality is that you end up with a machine which will do one thing well and another not well enough.

You mentioned the CNCdudes machine; have you searched for something similar? That type of machine would have been ideal for PCB’s but not so good for milling larger items like motor mounts.

My advice is if you can’t DIY a machine keep an eye out for a home built CNC machine on Ebay they do come up now and again and sell for around the £500 mark. Then buy a suitable mill to do the other jobs you have in mind.
As I have already mentioned I have a CNC router for cutting timber and plastics. I now have a mill for steel and aluminium (still to be cnc’ed) and I have plans in the near future to build a small machine very much like the first machine I linked to for PCB’s and engraving.

I do understand you struggling with all the options available (been there) but most of your confusion comes from trying to find a machine that will multitask. Imo you will be disappointed with such a machine. The X1 converted is probably the nearest you will get to fit your requirements but not ideal. As for a sticky Z axis; a simple solution to that if it is in fact a problem would be to use an oversized stepper motor. Once you have the X1 use that to build a small light weight machine to mill PCB’s.

John

Hi thanks for that

I see what you mean about a multi function machine, my main aim is pcb's and model railway items (small train wheels etc), so I guess I should start with that until i learn more about what I want, then I can always save up for another machine for heavier stuff.

I have been trying an awful lot to find something else like the cncdudez machine and not had any luck, I foud a nice machine in germany but is a bit above my budget (Machine is £1500) plus it also has an SMC 800 card so no mach 3 or anything, so would have to add on the price of another card.

Say I were to use an oversized motor on the Z axis, would it matter that the other 2 were not matched?

Im kinda stuck between the proxxom and the X1, the Proxxom is plenty big enough to do the pcb's, plus I can also do other light jobs like making level crossing barriers etc for model railway for my father.

The whole reason im getting into it is really for the pcb's and because I find it all very interesting, tho I feel I have an awful lot to learn.

I was kind of thinking about getting the proxxom, then in the future perhaps an X1 or X2 for the heavier stuff if I feel the need, or maybe use the proxxom to help me make small mounts etc for a homebuilt one.

is that possible or is it a silly assumption? Which machine do you think would give me best results for pcb's? The proxxom is stated as having a resolution of 0.05mm, is that acceptable (Sounds like it to me considering my budget).

What worries me about buying a homebuilt one is that I having no way of verifing it's build quality or how accurate it is etc until I have paid out for it and received it.

If I went with the proxxom i would probably get a better controller for it so I would be looking at around £800 spent plus tooling on top.

If I went with the X2 I would the mill (£215), conversion kit (about £160), Controller (£120), motors (no idea) and then I would also have to figure out how to add limit switches I guess, plus add a higher speed spindle, but I guess I could use the cnc'd X1 to make the spindle?

The X1 looks like it may well work out a bit cheaper, but perhaps I am missing something, plus I have no way of knowing how accurate or how good it will be for pcb's.

your thoughts?

Thanks

DJH

In one of your earlier posts you linked to a machine from the US; have you looked there for a more suitable alternative? Wigitmaster makes a very nice little machine which would suit your needs http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21872 I know he has send at least one over here but have no idea of the price. The US is a very good option at the moment with the £ $ rate and I would be amazed if you could not find something over there.

As for stepper motors; there is no need to match them as long as the drives are suitable for each.

If you say a Proxxom is big enough for your needs I would go with that rather than the X1. If you out grow it you can always upgrade in the future and it would be an ideal starter machine (if you break something it would be cheaper to repair).

I can’t comment on if the Proxxom will be suitable for making part for CNCing an X1 but a search of this site will give you lots of information on its capabilities.

What I would do now if in your position would be to do a search for threads on the Proxxom machine. Find out if it will do what you need and is it good value for money; if not then look at the alternatives.

Obviously this is all just my opinion and there may be better options but I hope I have helped.:)

John

One thing I would say, is that you need to be sure that you can easily get spare parts for any mill you pick. I have broken my X-1's gearbox about half a dozen times - fortunately I can get spares next day from Arc Euro Trade. Do you know where you can get Proxxon spares?

Thank you this is really what I needed, tho it means im a bit more lost, it's better than buying the wrong thing.

I know what you mean about the £1000 and I totally agree but it is all I have at the moment :(

The proxxon I can get with an extended table 16cm x 10 cm, not much of an increase I know, perfect for pcb's that I will be making, but not for much else. Would it be enough to help make parts for another cnc machine in the future? Like motor mounts and spindle holder?


It is nearly always easier to make parts for a smaller machine using a larger one - if you want to see just how much pain you can have going the otherway, check out my mill build in the Vertical mill project log section.


I guess the proxxon is kinda suited to small ish pcb's due to it's small and lighter design? Do you think I would have the same problems with the Z Axis?

If I did go with the X1 im presuming linear rails means 2 rails either side of the leadscrew with a mount at the top and bottom? My problem would be getting or making a mount, or would the x1 be able to make it once cnc'd but before it is has the z axis fixed?


No idea - go and find a Proxxon in a showroom to play with - IMHO this is too much money to buy blind...

If I were going to add rails to my X-1, I would use fully supported rails that would be screwed into the sides of the Z-column all the way up. I would then build some bracketry to bolt the carriages too the head support. It is possible to make this stuff on an X-1, but you'd have to take the mill apart to fit it, and it's usally at that point that you discover that something isn't quite right, and that you need a working mill to fix it :(



Thanks for the tip about MCP I was wondering about controllers, I presume they work ok with mach 3?

Im really struggling with what to do, I do feel that the proxxon will limit me in the future, but yet it seems the cheapest option. The Proxxon works out £679 delivered including the extended table, a pcb clamp and a dust vacumn atatchment. Then I need the tooling etc but leaves a few hundred for that or I could also buy the mcp controller

I want to find out what motors he uses, hopefully theyre stepper motors with and nmea 23 fitting and ok ish power.

Sorry for all the questions, any advice welcome.

DJH

If you mean stepper drivers, then, yes the MCP ones work fine Mach 3 - you just need a parallel port breakout board, or you can just wire up a custom parallel lead as I have.

IMHO, £200 ish won't get you much tooling for an X-1 - you'd need a collet-chuck to hold end mills - £50, a vice £50, some indicators/squares to get everything set up £30+ and then some endmills - £20 for a handful. All the tenners and £30's rapidly add up to one very expensive hobby :(

You also need £75 for Mach 3, and something for CAM - SheetCAM might be good for the drilling, but I don't know how you'd mill out the PCB traces, if that's your plan. Personally I'd get messy with Ferric Chloride and etch them, and save the CNC for doing the drilling.

Hiya

Thanks youve all been a great help, im kind of venturing away from the X1 and more towards the proxxon and the widgetmaster machine.

I intend to use the eagle addon to convert the board layout to Gcode for isolation routing, i just cannot get repeatable results with etching. I intend for this to be more than a hobby, I have some very nice circuits I have designed with micro porcessors that do things others dont which i intend to turn into products for model railway enthusiasts eventually. i don't want to use a fab house due to the cost over time, plus I like the hand-on approach and i love learning new things. Plus I don't want to have to keep paying for prototypes for the 30+ products I have.

I have emailed widget master and am waiting his reply, i really like his machine, i presume I only need sterppers, controller, dremel and limit switches?

with thr Proxxon im fairly sure I can get spares if need be.

Ok so now im stuck between the proxxon and the widgetmaster machine.

Thanks
DJH

Hmm, what do you guys think of this taig?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=006&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=160142284501&rd=1&rd=1

I guess it needs a chuck (judging by pictures) plus all the other tooling?

DJH

Hmm, what do you guys think of this taig?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=006&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=160142284501&rd=1&rd=1

I guess it needs a chuck (judging by pictures) plus all the other tooling?

DJH

I think you need to spend some time searching for threads on the different options, maybe asking one or two questions there about what they think about their machines and go from there. All the information you need will more than likely be here somewhere it’s just a case of searching it out.

Good luck,:)

John

Thank you

I don't mean to be a pain asking so many questions, I just like to get things as close to right as I can the first time round

DJH

I don’t think you are being a pain; I just think this site is an excellent source for researching a product. As you say you want to get it right first time round and researching is the way to do that. I know from experience you can wait a long time for information to come to you. The suggestion to search for the information was to save you time.:)

John

yes it's helping, from what I have read I think I want a Taig, and will just buy the tooling I need for pcb's to keep the initial cost down, I can buy more stuff then over the coming months

Thank You

DJH

Ok Im pretty much decided on the Taig, Seen a nice one in america (im in uk) but import vat + Duty really bumps it up, I know you can buy Taigs over here (peatol) but where can i get one with the ER-16 spindle and an rpm of 11k

Thanks

DJH

Ok Im pretty much decided on the Taig, Seen a nice one in america (im in uk) but import vat + Duty really bumps it up, I know you can buy Taigs over here (peatol) but where can i get one with the ER-16 spindle and an rpm of 11k

Thanks

DJH

Have you tried ringing Peatol and asking them?

I would have thought the shipping from the US will also be nasty - what does it weigh - 40kg ish?

Thats my first task tommorrow morning, I hope they keep them

Shipping is £100 plus I expect at least another £100 for import duty/Vat.

It works out about £1000 for the machine with all the motors/mounts/controller etc plus budget 4th axis, 3 collets, and a chuck, plus shipping + import tax.

So I will call peatol tommorrow and see what they can do, I know they charge about £550 for the mill alone, and about £150 for the motors and mounts etc, so it depends how much I can get the controller and spindle for I guess.

DJH

Right then, I am deffo going with the Taig, it works out a little more expensive if I get it from Peatol UK, but I have the added bonus of if it breaks etc i can get parts and support from the UK, plus I would be using Motion Control Products Controller, or can anyone reccomend anythign better? for and Extra £80 I could get a geckodrive. What would you reccomend. The problem with the american one is that I have no garuntee over how customs are going to charge duty, it can be put into different classifications whith different rates, plus it could get held up by them. Also the US one needs at least a 500W stepdown transformer (£60), £100 shipping and at least £200 import tax.

peatol won't have the ER-16 machiens until middle of the month which is ok, it works out about an extra £50 getting it from the uk (with MCP controller) but has more piece of mind I think.

The motors MCP quoted me for are 425oz/inch, is this too much? The american machine uses 280oz/in motors. Should I try and get closer to that?

For anyone who is interested in one of these machine, here is a breakdown of what im getting.

Peatol Mill = £550
Er-16 spindle taking it upto 11,000 rpm (instead of 5500rpm) = £50
CNC Ready kit made by Taig = £150
MCP CnC kit inc 3 425oz/inch steppers, 3 4.2A drivers, breakout Board, 2 40V PSU's = £277

Total So Far = £1027

Obviously I then need collets and tooling etc, but im only going to buy a 1/8" collets and a selection of mills for pcb work to start with, I can get more as and when I need them.

It's over my budget a bit but it's a lot more rigid than the proxxon, bigger work area, works with more than just PCNC, and The peatol guy over here seems like a nice bloke who was actually interested in what I was doing and giving advice rather than just trying to sell me stuff.

I just need to decide now wether I need such string motors and if I should go MCp or geckodrive.

DJH

Well I am running 4x Gecko G201 drives on my machine, (remember one per axis). I got them for about $100 each from Homeshopcnc.com. If you can even slightly afford them I would get them, I have been very happy with them and this seems to be the case with most owners. Plus they have the capacity to run a far bigger machine than a Taig or my X2, which is why I went for them (any future machine I get will be bigger).

how do you mean 1 per axis? Do you mean you bought the 1 axis drives?

I was looking at the 6 axis geckodrive

DJH

hmm the Gecko G100 runs on a 1.5A supply, yet the motors im looking at run at 2.1A each so I guess the gecko is out? :(

or does that 1.5A at 24VDC become a lot more ampage at 5V?

DJH

or does that 1.5A at 24v become a lot more ampage at 5v?

DJH

I don't know much about the G-100 controller, however it is a general purpose motion controller it would seem, NOT a dedicated device necessarily designed for CNC machine control. It ca interface with Mach3 via a plugin, but is not solely intended for this. The other controllers from gecko (check the website) are single axis drivers with less functionality but look like higher power capability. The G201 is basically the simplest of their stepper motor drivers and operates at a max output of 80V at 7A. That is enough to drive some SERIOUS machinery. However, you need one drive per axis, but the total works out the same or slightly less than a G-100. The G-100 also has encoder inputs and I believe therefore can drive steppers in a servo-like manner (closed loop). As I say, you would need to find out more about this. Also, comms to the G-100 are via ethernet or I think also USB, where the standard drives are generally interfaced via a breakout board to the parallel port in your PC (almost everyone uses this method). Note that Gecko make single axis drivers for steppers and servos.

Ahh thats cool, thank you

so the g201 can output at 5v too?

I just need to find someone who will ship them to the uk now :(

DJH

Not sure why you want to output from the drives at 5V. Could it be because your motors are rated 5V? If so, you will get zero performance from them. Steppers should be overdriven on voltage by about 20x the rating (that would mean running yours at 100V). However you must ensure not to exceed the current spec of the motors though, or they will overheat. You set the max current on the drive (i.e. Gecko G201). I strongly suggest you read the PDF on the gecko site about stepper motor fundamentals: http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf

This is written by Marriss of Geckdrive who pretty much knows everything about steppers and their control.

Oh yes, if you are wondering where to get the stuff from, I can recommend www.homeshopcnc.com. That's where I got mine from and I didn't get hit too badly on import duty etc.

Oh yes, if you are wondering where to get the stuff from, I can recommend www.homeshopcnc.com. That's where I got mine from and I didn't get hit too badly on import duty etc.

That's where I got my 7 G320's, a G100 and 7 huge servo motors from - they were very efficient so I'd definately use them again.I did pay the full tax/duty, which was several £100's - and I think the motors incurred duty as well as VAT. Unfortunately, I seem to have an issue with one of my G320's so it's going to go back to the US to be looked at. Even if Geckodrive are as efficient and helpful as their reputation would lead me to believe, there's no getting over the fact that they are on a different continent, so you are not going to be able to get replacement drives in a day if something goes wrong.

I don't know the technical arguments for Gecko stepper drivers vs the MCP ones, but I do know that MCP got me new drives within a day or so of my crappy stepmasternc driver board catching fire before my eyes. Those drives have worked faultlessly since I installed them and were pretty cheap too! Unless the price difference is huge, I'd shop locally if you can...

well I am tempted by the MCP option, I know they prob won't be as good as the gecko but at least they are over here

and they do a set for £277 incl 3 420oz/inch steppers, 2 4.2A drivers + breakout board plus 2 300W 75V psu's. plus is a bit cheaper so helps me not stray too far from my budget.

plus they have a phone number I can ring etc for help

thanks for that link to the motor info too.

as soon as the funds clear in a few days I will buy the mill + spindle + cnc kit from peatol, then once my auctions end on ebay on saturday i should be able to get the MCP kit, and then onto tooling etc. expo tools have some nice cheap vices, digital callipers etc so gonna look there, just gotta find the collets/mills

DJH

I don't know much about the G-100 controller, however it is a general purpose motion controller it would seem, NOT a dedicated device necessarily designed for CNC machine control. It ca interface with Mach3 via a plugin, but is not solely intended for this. The other controllers from gecko (check the website) are single axis drivers with less functionality but look like higher power capability. The G201 is basically the simplest of their stepper motor drivers and operates at a max output of 80V at 7A. That is enough to drive some SERIOUS machinery. However, you need one drive per axis, but the total works out the same or slightly less than a G-100. The G-100 also has encoder inputs and I believe therefore can drive steppers in a servo-like manner (closed loop). As I say, you would need to find out more about this. Also, comms to the G-100 are via ethernet or I think also USB, where the standard drives are generally interfaced via a breakout board to the parallel port in your PC (almost everyone uses this method). Note that Gecko make single axis drivers for steppers and servos.

Longrat,

You are correct that the G100 is sent commands via USB or Ethernet, however, the G100 then sends step and directions signals to drives (sort of a smart breakout board). It does not directly connect to the step or servo motors.

Alan

well I am tempted by the MCP option, I know they prob won't be as good as the gecko but at least they are over here

and they do a set for £277 incl 3 420oz/inch steppers, 2 4.2A drivers + breakout board plus 2 300W 75V psu's. plus is a bit cheaper so helps me not stray too far from my budget.

plus they have a phone number I can ring etc for help

thanks for that link to the motor info too.

as soon as the funds clear in a few days I will buy the mill + spindle + cnc kit from peatol, then once my auctions end on ebay on saturday i should be able to get the MCP kit, and then onto tooling etc. expo tools have some nice cheap vices, digital callipers etc so gonna look there, just gotta find the collets/mills

DJH

I find Arc Euro Trade are pretty good for ER16 collets and endmillls.

Hi,

About steppers and drives

I would advise you staying with MCP but not the kit they have suggested.

This is my advice; find out from other users if the 280 oz in motors they use supply enough power for the mill (I will be surprised if they are not powerful enough). Then ask what the drives are rated at and what is the power supply volts rating.

Then we can look for similar rated stepper’s and drives from MCP.

If the 280 oz in stepper are ok then buy these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-8-Nm-Stepper-Motor-NEW-12-Month-Warrantee_W0QQitemZ130078257696QQihZ003QQcategoryZ26209QQcmdZViewItem

Drives these will match http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=3

Break out board (same as from MCP) http://www.videocorner.co.uk/html/parallel.html

Power supply; build your own far cheaper and not difficult or use PC power supply as described here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17548

EDIT:If the stepper motors are wired bipolar series then these drives would be enough http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=2 saves £4.40/ drive.

John

on taig, 280oz is more than enough for 30IPM jog. it is great machine for light duty and board. I've ran xylotex 2.5amp/24v drive without issues with mine.

well In 5 days time I will be buying the Mill itself, then 8 days time the steppers and controller, have just ordered a smal selection of end mills for pcb's in a few different sizes, plus ordered 2 collets (2-3mm & 3-4mm)

:)

DJH

Ok

Bit of an update, bit of a problem. I have the mill, the steppers, the controllers etc.

all set up, but soon as I put power in to the drivers, the motor makes a sort of quiet sqealing sound, plus the pc has no control over any of it.

I Think the motors are wired up right, but could anyone help? I was looking to wire up my 8-wire steppers as bipolar parralell.

Ok

Bit of an update, bit of a problem. I have the mill, the steppers, the controllers etc.

all set up, but soon as I put power in to the drivers, the motor makes a sort of quiet sqealing sound, plus the pc has no control over any of it.

I Think the motors are wired up right, but could anyone help? I was looking to wire up my 8-wire steppers as bipolar parralell.

Hi,

Don’t worry about the hiss/high pitch screaming sound; this is quite normal and is coursed by the chopper circuit in the drive.

What have you tried to get the PC to communicate with the drives?

John

THANK GOD FOR THAT :)

I have just wired up the X-Axis for the time being.

I bought a kit from motion control products. for the motors/drives/ psu's/breakout board etc.

I also had to buy a parallel card as my dell did not have one.

I have Mach3 software, but get no response trying to jog, I have tried to set it up on the right port, and specify the right pins etc. I don't know if the motor is wired up wrong or the pci card is funny or mach3.

DJH

Start by checking the motor; does it lock up (will not turn by hand) when power is applied?

Does the motor noise change at all when you try jogging?

Have you double checked all wiring for mistakes?

Have you tested the pins of the parallel port with a meter to check you are getting a good pulse?

After this it is very probably a set up problem with Mach3. I don’t use it so someone else will need to step in.

John

Yes the motor locks up when power is applied, need pliers to turn it when off, but will not move at all when switched on.

Wiring problem?

DJH

Ok, just been reading, so motor lockup is a good thing at this stage correct?

So im guessing this is most probably a communication problem from the cheapy parallel port cardm problem with mach3 setup, or a wiring issue I guess?

Would you agree?

Controller is set to 4.2A (same as motors) and 25000 microstep per rev


DJH

Ok, plugged it into my laptop port replicator and I have movement :)

Must be that stupid parallel card.

But although it moves, it moves very very slowly, like I think it could take a few hours to go from, one limit to the next.

I set mach3 up for 250000 microsteps the same as the controller.

Any ideas?

hmm, using the motor tuning I can get it to go faster.

If I change the dip switches on the controller from 25000 steps to 400, the x table moves very quickly, but sometimes just stops, is this stalling? What causes it?

Am I not able to go fast if set to 25000 microsteps?

DJH

Hi again,

Nice to see you have movement. :)

I would recommend you start at 1600 for steps per rev that will give you 1/8 micro steps. If you read up you will find there is no advantage to setting this higher and will give you the smoothest movement; be sure to reset this in software.

Try it again at increasing jog speeds and let us know how the motor reacts. If the motor stalls make a note of what noise it makes and at what jog speed it is stalling at. The motors torque decreases as speed increases so that may be the reason. Also the motor may be stalling due to rotor inertia; what is the holding torque of the motor?

You say you have the drive set to 4.2A same as the motor. That may be the recommended setting for bipolar series, if you have wired the motor bipolar parallel it will need to be doubled to 8.4A for max torque.

John

EDIT: Do you have the PCI parallel port setup to the correct mode? I can’t remember off the top of my head what it should be set to but a search will help you there.

Heya thanks for that, will try it on 1600 step.

it is 2.1A series and 4.2A Parallel, the motors are 420 oz/in.

Ive not been able to change the mode on the parallel card as it is 3rd party there is no bios option obviosuly and no utility to change it in.

DJH

RE the PCI card; I have had problems in the past and after searching the net found a DOS utility to change the mode.

If you are still having stalling problems take a look here for a fix http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32284 I have made one for a large stepper motor on my CNC router which I wanted for high speed rapids. It completely solved the issue of motor stall. Imho the stepper motors you have are far too large for the machine, but now you have them. If the problem you have is down to motor inertia it will help.

Does the motor make a straight whereing (could not think how better to describe it lol) noise before it stalls?

Good luck,
John

Heya

Yes I appreciate the motors being too big, if I put the driver on 400 step and put speed and and accel up then sometime it stalls and sometimes it does'nt, it never starts then stalls, it either stalls as soon as it starts moving or not at all I think. Not sure what noise it makes before stall, but it whines during the stall.

so do you think even a flywheel would help?

it's currently set at 3/4 speed in mach on 1600 steps per rev, and moves about an inch a second with no problems, but on 1600 steps setting, even at full speed when it stall now and again it' not much faster

DJH

The damper will defiantly help as you are having exactly the same effect as I did. I knew before buying the motor for my router (long X axis) it would have problems but took a chance on the stepper motor damper working for me. By far the best solution imo would be to replace the motors with more suitable ones as there are other issue that are going to affect you such as increased excel and decal rates. If you are going to keep the motors then as far as I know the only fix will be the damper maybe some one else has some advice?
One other point; lower the Amps setting it will make the motors run cooler as you don’t need that much torque.

John

Can you buy the dampers? as I don't have a lathe or a 4th axis or anything. I now have X and Y going.

Trying to find some sort of mach 3 guide now

DJH

Try reducing the motor acceleration down in software it may help.

The motor dampers are not being sold but should be imo :)

Ok, could someone check my reasoning, have finalyy figured out how to setup mach 3 (initially) I think.

My Taig uses 20 TPI Leadscrews, which I assume means 20 turn of the screw per inch of movement of the table, my drives are set to 1600 microsteps per rev, so would I then be right in saying that 20 x 1600 = 32000 steps per inch?

Anyway I set up mach3 on the motor tuning section with 32000 per inch, and witht he speed and accel turned all the way up I don't get any stalling :) It says it is at 65 ipm. Now I understand that is not that good? But mach 3 only lets me go up that far???

Thanks

DJH

Yay

did some test pcb's today

first few were rubbish, but i kinda got the hang of it. one problem is that the fill routing file only seems to do about 1/4 of the board, so must be something wrong with the eagle addon I guess :(

bought some mdf today to play with, anyone have some interesting small items in gcode format like a bas releif or something?

DJH

Ok, could someone check my reasoning, have finalyy figured out how to setup mach 3 (initially) I think.

My Taig uses 20 TPI Leadscrews, which I assume means 20 turn of the screw per inch of movement of the table, my drives are set to 1600 microsteps per rev, so would I then be right in saying that 20 x 1600 = 32000 steps per inch?

Anyway I set up mach3 on the motor tuning section with 32000 per inch, and witht he speed and accel turned all the way up I don't get any stalling :) It says it is at 65 ipm. Now I understand that is not that good? But mach 3 only lets me go up that far???

Thanks

DJH

Mach 3 is limited by the speed your parallel port can output step pulses to the stepper drivers. If you change your drives to 800 steps/rev, you would in theory get 140 ipm - which is pretty fast for such a little machine - my X-1 runs at 1100mm/min or ~40IPM.

These small/cheapish machines are pretty slow TBH - just like with cars, speed costs, and if you want speed and accuracy, it will cost a shed load ;)

speed isn't a magor concern at the moment, I'll have to sort out resonance damper for the motors somehow first.

Im also going to buy some decent pcb mills from megauk, I have some cheapo foreign ones atm while I get used to things.

Thanks for all your help btw, it really is appreciated, especially oldmanandhistoy and digits :)

Im sure I will have more questions tommorrow :)

Thanks

DJH

hmm

Im still having problems

I bought my mach3 from a friend who sold his cnc machine as his new house had no room. He basically gave me his license key. Now in mach3 it still only seems to run a certain amount of code, as in the display window only shows about half the job, yet using the same key in mach 2 shows all of it.

Ive not had chance to make any sort of damper yet, but i am having strange problems, The psu's are rated at giving out 42V, the drivers are 20-50V. i have the drivers set at half the max ampage of the motor. now if I go into motor tuning in mach2 and get the motor going without stalling, it sounds all nice and smooth, if I save the setting then jog at the same speed it's very rough with a lot of vibration, I just don't know what is the difference between joggin in the motor tuning window, or jogging in the main window, but something is making it vibrate a lot more. Any Ideas? Also the Z axis stalls in the main window, but runs fine when testing in motor tuning screen.

Ive also tried the demo version of Kcam and had very little luck with that too, over 5ipm causes it to stall (I can get upto 14 in mach2).

Cany anyone offer any advice? Im sure part of my problem is software/hardware setup (on top of having over powered motors)

DJH

As mentioned in an earlier post I do not use Mach software as yet but find where to change pulse width and try it at 20 it may help. Other than that I can only suggest you try posting a question in the Mach forum giving as much detail as you can and see what they can do to help.

John

Also while you are trying other software give Turbocnc a try it’s what I use from here http://www.dakeng.com/turbo.html. It’s a dos based programme and free. It’s very simple to use and no windows environment to mess things up.

One other quick question; do you have Quick time running in the back ground as this is well know to mess with Mach?

John

as always thanks for your help.

The only reason I did not try turbocnc was because when I design a circuit or something on the machine I would have to reboot into dos to try and make it.

Do you use XP pretend dos or proper Win 98 dos (or dos 6.22 even).

There is no floppy drive in the machine, but guess i could play around with making a boot cd or something.

things seem to be running worse now than they were before. What other possible reasons are there for stalling apart from inertia and resonance from the motors being too powerful?

I tried tightenning the gibs a little to see if that helped at all and made no diference whatsoever

DJH

I use a boot disk when running on my XP PC and I run windows 95 on an old laptop so just reboot into dos and run from the hard drive. I used a boot CD on another PC without a floppy drive.

Other causes for stalling are:

Too much acceleration.

Poor pulse train (can be tested with Mach software).

Voltage on parallel port to low.

Faulty parallel port (first hand experience)

No delay between direction changes.

Motor resonance is not caused by the motor being to large (do a search for resonance if you want more info).

Damaged stepper motor.

Old stepper motor (they loose power over time).

Axis binding (gibs to tight).

Others that I can’t think of do not relate to your set up or already mentioned.

What motor couplers are you using?

John

Thanks

I have an old P166 laptop somewhere running 98, so will just try that to start with.

If I reduce acceleration to half it does help but not an awful lot

I will look into how to test the pulse train.

It's a desktop pc so I presume parallel port is ok both working wise and voltage, but will test with a meter anyway.

happens on all 3 motors so would be really bad luck if all damaged.

I can turn all axis by hand (just) without handles atatched.

The direction change thing has been bugging me a bit, i don't know what value to put in there. I did experiment a bit but and things did change, but not really for the better but will take another look.

Ok so I guess the inertia is kind of based on the motor, while resonance can be down to motor design, drivetrain, couplings, mounts etc.

The couplings are the ones that taig supply, basically two 1 1/2" cyclinders with 4 evenly spaced holes, you get 4 peices of platick subing to put in them, line them up and push together, I did have problems with this as they were kind of squashing together more than anything. I found some round plastic (same plastic as used in airfix kits) and it fit perfectly, not tight but no play either and now the couplings are perfectly mated.

DJH

I can turn all axis by hand (just) without handles atatched.


I didn’t like that statement how are you turning the screw?

Have you tried turning it right through the axis travel?

Is it harder to move in some places compared to others?

Try increasing your Amps and see if that makes any difference.

If your problems are down to rotor inertia then the only things you can do to solve the problem are the dampers or smaller motors.

John

the axis seem to have the same resistance (me turning by hand) all the way through. Basically I mean if i grab the motor coupler I can turn it, either with motor unatatched or atatched and powered off.

I now have the ampage up to 4.2A and still the same.

Im sure I probably do have an inertial problem, but i think it's probably only at the higher end of things.

i just shown my girlfriend now (wondering why I am not in bed yet), if I set the motors to 42ipm and try jogging on the main screen of mach2, it stalls almost straight away, if I go into the motor tuning screen and don't change any settings, but jog from there it run perfectly, nice and fast and smooth with no stalls. so Im sure that much is either a pc or mach2 problem, would you agree?

If i could get the 42ipm that I get in to tuning screen i would be quite happy, I mean it has 20tpi leadscrews and is a small and cheap machine (£1200 so far).

On thing I did notice, the pulse frequency on the diagnostics screen varies from 42000 to 50000, is moves a little on it's own but moves a lot when jogging. should that be happenning?

Also, what difference does it make how the steppers are wired up? They are currently bipolar parallel (8 wire).

I will try turbocnc when i get chance and see how that goes, tho would also like to fix mach2, i know you don't use it, but if you can shed any light on motor wiring and pulse frequency that would be great.

it must be something I am setting up wrong in the software, as kcam cannot get over 5ipm and I really want to use that as it can convert Gerber files straight to gcode and do the isolation routing.

Do you mind if I ask why you use turbocnc? Im just curious, reliability? accuracy?

Thanks for all your help :)

DJH

RE wiring stepper motors; if you are going over 500 rpm (you will need to calculate this) then bipolar parallel is the way to wire them as this will give you more torque at higher speeds.

There is obviously something going on with Mach as you describe things. Post in the mach forum and see what they say.

The reason I use Turbocnc is it is what I first used and I have had no reason to use anything else. It also will run on a much lower spec PC which are ten a penny not the 1Ghz min for Mach3.

Did you try increasing the pulse width in Mach?
Are you using 8 micro steps or less 1600 pulses/rev?

John

P.S. your girlfriend has a point GET TO BED MAN it will still be there in the morning lol.:p lol

EDIT: Forgot to say try putting a temporary fly wheel on the back shaft; anything will be worth a try and it may get you by till you can make some real dampers

right so at least the motors are wired up ok then i guess

I will look into the mach thing when I get chance.

ive increased the pulse width in mach, tried the 3 different options and not much difference, should it be varying itself though?

the way Ive been setting up the motors is they are set to 1600 microsteps on the drive, then in mach where it say number of steps per inch, I multiply 1600 x 20 (as I have a directly driven 20tpi leadscrew), now I presume thats correct?

Yeh the bigest problem with that is I don't have a lathe, but I guess I could mill it out, but would end up not being as deep. Ive got some 20mm thick aluminium coming to play with, so I think i will make some sort of flywheel out of that, I just cannot get used to cad atm so thats my biggest stumbling block

Thanks

DJH

the way Ive been setting up the motors is they are set to 1600 microsteps on the drive, then in mach where it say number of steps per inch, I multiply 1600 x 20 (as I have a directly driven 20tpi leadscrew), now I presume thats correct?

That is correct as for the rest I can’t help.

A temporary fly wheel would not need to be turned; see if you can find something that can be adapted to fit the motor shaft. Or if you have some MDF or similar and a jig saw cut a disk out about 75mm diameter (you can always reduce it if to big) and drill a tight hole with your mill for a push fit to the shaft. If your problem is rotor inertia this will make a big difference

Good luck,
John.

Ive got lots of mdf here, I guess even I can draw 2 circles in a cad program then set the layer depth in cam.

I can get my machine running reliably at 3200 steps to do that, just may take a little while.

Thanks

DJH

I’d just make a quick one with a jig saw and drill to do a test. Then go to the trouble of setting the job up for CNC.

You may be interested to know the damper I have on my motor is still MDF and works a treat. The pictures don’t show the lid which is just screwed on.

John

Thanks for the pics, thats deffo my next task.

Ive now fixed the mach issue :)

I spent ages trying to get a usb stick to boot dos (dos could not see the boot disk it booted from), got turbocnc going and still had nasty jumpy movement and lots of noise. So I remembered thinking about the parallel port mode earlier today at a birthday party, so I did some reading, and changed it from ecp+epp to Bi-Directional, and it works, the pulse frequency display in mach2 not sits at the same number when stationary. And have the axis running at 50ipm rapids (max speed for 1600 steps and 35Khz) with not a single stall, and very nice smooth movement, no nasty noises or vibrations :)

Im quite happy with that, as most people I have read about with small mills like mine have around 40ipm. Im still going to do the dampers as I think it would be a good learning exercise, thanks to putting me onto them :)


DJH

ok, at full speed on 45Khz it stalls, but not all the time, so moved it down a bit and can get 79IPM without stalls (though screaming a bit so going to move it back down)

This is assuming that my maths are correct in I am using 20tpi screw, 1600 microsteps per rev, 20 x 1600 = 32000 steps per inch. If thats all correct then im getting 79IPM rapids with no stalls yet on the X and one stall on the Y after 5 mins of jogging.

So with dampers maybe a bit more.

Im sure my maths must be ,messed up somewhere, perhaps I should measure it manually, but it does look fast

DJH

:wee:

Don't use dampers if you don't need them it will just slow your system down.

Please keep me informed about how it runs over time making chips.

John

well I had another stall at 79 IPm, but guess that is to be expected. I don't want to use anywhere near that for the pcb's obviously, and even for rapids i think it is too much for a small machine, but I will try the dampers as an experiment then remove them if need be, I just want to see what it is capable of.

Im not enjoying using Eagle and the pcb-gcode ULP at the moment, i want to try protel and a few other apps too that export in Gerber format, my problem now is that Kcam still won't drive the motors properly, i may look at Deskcnc as it handles the timing with an external controller and import Gerber to convert to Gcode.

Ive already made a fair few pcb's, mostly for power supplies and some small 1.5" square boards for model railway. I was using 60 degree V bits, but now going to try 30 degree bits. I had problems with eagle and pcb-gcode doing very small surface mount parts such as LQFP-44 chips etc, it seems to either not go deep enough to remove all the copper, or goes too deep and the wide part of the V removes more of the trace, so it actually lifts some of the tiny pads, whearas some of the gerber stuff I ahve been looking at seems to have a different approach to the toolpath.

So far my boards look nice, smooth cuts, no swarf etc

DJH

Hello DJH,
Can you give me some feedback on how your Taig setup is running? maybe send me some pics of your PCB work. Im in the same boat as you were in, looking for a mill to do PCB and other work. the Tiag interests me also. My head feels like it's about to explode due to information overload researching mills.............phew.

Any ifo will be great

Thanks
Ray

rayellam@yahoo.com

Hiya

Sure, as far as the mill is concerned im very happy, I only have two complaints, the first is that the way covers are a pain as they get in the way, but are needed. And secondly if I had more money I think I would have bought a bigger mill, but thats only because im greedy.

I changed the default motor/spindle for a Kress 800FME, faster, more powerful etc, but collets are an issue (price) and the slowest speed is 10,000rpm, so not too good for some metals.

As far as PCB work goes, ive had mixed results, nothing to do with the mill itself, just problems either getting the board flat or making a spring loaded engraving tool, im working on both.

Ive made some pretty complicated boards with SX/Propeller microprocessors, with loads of darlington ic's and other components, TV output etc and the boards have held up well.

I will see if I have any pics

DJH

Hello DJH,
First off, thanks for taking the time in passing this information. I was looking at the micromills from Microproto, basically Taig Mills that are CNC’d up

http://www.microproto.com/specials.htm

When I got looking at this I thought it may be more economical and interesting to start from a CNC ready machine and build it up myself, so this is initially what im proposing.

1. Taig 2019CR-ER. Converted to CNC ready with Nema 23 motor mounts, adjustable bronze lead screw nuts, and upgraded 1/4 horsepower motor. Does not include stepper motors or control system.

2. Motors – Not sure yet, maybe someone can help me out there?

3. Controller – not sure yet, maybe someone can help me out there?

4. Software – Mach3

5. High speed spindle – Wolfgang/Paul Jones/Kress 800FME

6. Tools – Not sure yet, maybe someone can help me out there?


Questions.
1. What are the advantages/disadvantages of a servo system verses a stepper system?

2. Can you give me a list of components for your mill set up? Is the basic mill a 2019?

3. Im thinking of using a specialist spindle for the PCB cutting. Is it possible to make some kind of quick-change arrangement where I can install the motor and spindle for the PCB work then when im finished swap back to the ER spindle and motor for the more general work?

4. What method do you use for converting eagle to Gcode?

5. What software tools do you use for all of your work?

6. Why use a spring-loaded tool for the PCB work? Is this something you can buy off the shelf?

Lots of questions I knowand iv probably got lots more.

Thank You
Ray

Think iv come to a choice on the drive system........

http://www.homeshopcnc.com/page5.html

370 oz/in Stepper Motor Model # RS23-370.
ill wire these in parralel. so they are rated at 5 A per phase x 3 = 15A total x 40% (for pwer supply head room) =20Amps. they are rated at 1.9Volts so 1.9x25=47.5Volts. so my power supply 20amps@47.5V????????

I will use Gecko G201 drivers and control these from the following opto isolated parallel break out board.

http://www.homeshopcnc.com/page9.html

I intend to have some kind of home made front panel manual system, limit switches from LocoCNC, Estop etc.

Im still deciding on the power supply, a switch mode unit would be cheaper to ship than a heavy linear torroidal type but im still out to lunch on that one.

The specific voltage doesn't matter to the steppers, other than the higher the better for performance. It's technical, if you want to know more it's been well covered here several times. Just go with the highest available power supply voltage your drivers can safely handle, regardless of the steppers used.
Secondly, headroom on the power supply is always nice, but it is not necessary to add so much above the max draw of all motors, simply because every axis won't all pull peak at the same time. You can just go with 15 amps or even a little less. Rule of thumb is at least 75% of combined peak is plenty, so I wouldn't be concerned about even a 12 amp supply there if you find one cheap. Bigger won't hurt anything of course, but no reason to limit your options and spend a ton more than needed either unless you plan on adding more axes later.

Ok where to start....

I bought my Taig from Peatol in the UK, I bought the manual Mill, and the cnc conversion kit (mounts) from them. I then had to put it all together.

1:I also bought the ER-16 spindle which was very good,

2:Motors, I have 320oz/in motors, these are a bit overkill however, 270oz/in is enough

3:Controller, I use MCP controllers, but would have tried gecko if I had the cash

4: Software, I use Mach3 too, tho am also playing with EMC on Linux

5:High Speed Spindle, Personally I reccomend the Kress 800FME, but obviously you would need to try and find a mount for it, preferably in dovetail

6: Tooling: You will need a load of collets for whatever spindle you have, I have a full set of er-16 but only 1/8" and 8mm for the kress as they are silly expensive here. A good mill Vice, don't skimp on this, make sure it fits in with the T-slots. Endmills etc, I just bought loads of ebay, some new some used, and practiced until I knew what type I needed for what job etc.


Questions:
1: Servos can be closed loop, and can also be faster I beleive, but for them to be the same power as a stepper your looking at paying lots more, controllers can also be more expensive. For smaller mills at home, steppers are fine in my opinion.

2: 2019 Mill, er-16 Spindle (now replaced with kress + mount), milling vice and thats it for the mill apart from electronics.

3: Yes it's called the dovetail joint, and the mill will already have it, the difficult thing is finding a spindle that someone makes a taig dovetail mount for.

4: pcb-Gcode (google it, free download)

5: I just use eagle, pcb-gcode and sometimes Cam-Bam

6: The spring loaded tool basically eliminates the problem of needing the surface your engraving to be completley flat. When your only removing a few hundred microns of copper, if the board dips 1mm in the middle, then the tool will not engrave thier etc.

You either need the board really flat and secure or you need the tool

DJH

Thanks stepper monkey, that bit of advice will save quite a few $, more cash for tools :-)

DJH, have you any suggestions on a spring loaded tool? i took a quick look and came back with a price of $850............yikes :-/

Thanks
Ray

Hiya

yes im looking at making one, ive made a few prototypes, I have a design that I believe will work butit uses a method I have not used before on a lathe, so it's taking a while

DJH

Duh. Replying to page of an 8-page thread. (wedge)