Hi,

I have a HAAS TM-1 and a 4th axis rotary table for it. I would really like to have 5-axis capability. The thing is, I am being "allowed" to use this mill by the owner who himself does not use it very often. I would really not like to drop $19,995.00 (http://www.haascnc.com/rotary_PRICE_trunniontables.asp#RotaryTreePrice) on a trunnion table for a machine that is not mine.

So my questions are:


Can I somehow attach another axis to the 4th axis I already have? I don't have the model # of my 4th axis but it looks similar to the HRT160-CNCB (http://www.haascnc.com/details_rotary_rotarytables.asp?ID=126#RotaryTreeModel). Looking at the TRT1605XB (http://www.haascnc.com/details_rotary_trunniontables.asp?ID=148#RotaryTreeModel), it looks like they use a rotary table and slap another drive on it to make a tilting table.
Are there any cheap 5-axis solutions out there, perhaps other than HAAS? I found a kit from High Tech Systems (http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/index_files/Page837.htm) for 4 and 5 axis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-tXDEvAqg). But I have some concerns about something like that:

Will it work with a HAAS? How do I hook it up?
It does not appear to have a brake on either axis.
It does not look very rigid.
While cheap, will it just be a waste of money when my tolerances are out of wack, operations take too long or I find I can't mill harder materials?



Any ideas about this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! :D

First off, Does the Haas in question have the servo installed for a fifth axis?
Wired?
How are you going to program it?
Five axis ain't NUTTIN like three or four axis.
There's a reason they are expensive

Not sure what you mean by "servo installed". I have a 4th axis table but not a 5th. If you mean does it have the 4th and 5th axis options installed, yes. We even have software for continuous 5-axis operations (but I don't think a post).

Simply put, the owner purchased the mill for some project that has been since canceled. Machining is not a core part of their business so the mill was mostly just sitting there rusting until I started using it on a regular basis. They bought all the bells and whistles at the time (2-3 years ago) but not a trunnion table, only a 4th axis. Though they thought they might want to do 5-axis sometime the went ahead and purchased all the options in advance.

Cheers.

the io board on the tm machines is not fully stacked and not capable of running full fifth axis without a new or modified io board. the brake cicuit for the fifth is not installed the only way to do it unless you pay is to use a semi fifth with a control box and control it via rs 232. you can setup an angle plate and bolt a 160 to a 210 i think.

Thanks serviceman. How can I check to see what is installed? I'm not sure what I would be looking for as I have never seen a service manual for this mill.

How much is a new or modified board for the 5th axis?

if you buy a full fourth from haas i think it is $5000.00 for the option not many people have done 5th axis on a tm-1 so they do not know that there is no brake cicuit on the io board it would be ok if the 5th axis was an ha5c which has no brake but an hrt 160 needs the brake unless you are moving the 5th while cutting. if you want to position and stop and take a cut then you want the brake circuit. i think the io board is about 625 but if you get the 5th axis option they should give it to you for free you cannot run full 5 axis without a password on the newer machines so you are really stuck with buying it from haas unless like i said you want to run it as a position only where you will not be able to make a simultaneous move with the 5th axis.

It's nice of the CNC manufactures cripple their machines for us. Good thing they are not auto-makers. It would suck to not be able to drive above 50mph without purchasing a password for an extra thou first.

Truth is, I don't know what's on this mill already and I don't know how to find out. They definitely bought the 4th option but I don't know if they already have the brake circuit and the IO board for the 5th. It says the 4th and 5th axis is not installed in the settings, but I assume that's because I don't actually have the servos connected.

Thanks.

4th axis is also an option on the side of the electrical cabinet you should see the connections for the 4th and the 5th if you do not see headers for the 4th and 5th on the side of the cabinet then you do not have them if you have 4th then you should have a password to enalbe the 4th axis parameter. if you goto setting 30 and cursor to the right if it says option disabled then you need to turn on the parameter for fourth i think it is setting 78 for the 5th axis.

That was very helpful, but disappointing. Turns out it only has the header for the 4th and not the 5th. So from what you are saying if I want the machine to run the 5th axis, I'll have to buy the $5000 5th-axis option? Which is basically an IO board and a password? Lame.

Any place to get this stuff used and not have to pay the direct-from-HAAS premium?

Even if you could buy the hardware, you would still need the password from HAAS to turn it on.

So the "license" to turn on that features is non-transferable? I can't buy the board and the feature from someone else used?

Well, I can try to convince my employer to foot the bill, but that won't be easy. Assuming that works out I will still have the original problem: What are my options for the 5th axis servo without paying 20k for a trunnion table? Buy a 210 and mount the 160 on it?

Thanks

you can do that but you will only have a semi fifth for positioning the 5th axis only. not taking simultaneous 4 or 5 axis cuts

I meant assuming I can get my employer to purchase the $5K 5th axis option... Then, if I mount a the 160 on the 210 I then should then have full 5 axis.


I don't mean to sound ungrateful, all your help has been appreciated. But it sounds like everyone here is discouraging me from adding a 5th axis to a TM1 as if it can't be done and is a waste of time. I can't say I feel the suggestions so far have been incredibly constructive - I still don't know where I can buy a used or cheap 210 for example.

I don't know if everyone else here just pays what HAAS asks for new stuff without question. My apologies if my budget mindset is looked down upon... I'm new to the CNC world.


No worries though, guess I will have to stick with 4 axis.

Cheers.

Not to be another Downer, but if you are stacking one on another, you will be eating up considerable Z travel as well as having Cable Hell too!!!!!!

Good Thinking, But I don't know it the control will support two separate indexers like what you are thinking

Look on Ebay for 4th axis, or try some suplus machine sellers on the net.

One of the issues you are facing is that most folks that start a shop are buying Haas equipment mainly because of the price. They can get into a machine and be making money for not a lot of money. Therefore, things like fourth axis' on the used market are scarce and command a high (relative) price. It does not help that Haas (and many other mfgs) password stuff. But you also didn't have to pay for that capability if you didn't need it. It is the way of the industry. I am looking at a five axis horizontal at the moment. it's in the $350k range. A five axis machine is simply more expensive. No way around it. But if you are interested in it, the advantages of less setups and the ability to move into more conplex work will, as a general rule, allow you to have a shorter ROI
I hope I have not depressed you too much and I may have shown you a path to get your boss to consider the real deal instead of trying to make something work.

PBMW,

Not depressing news at all - I'd much rather know why something is difficult or unusual to do rather than just being told it is. The industry I am experienced with is much different so I probably have some funny ideas coming in to CNC.

Overall though, it is disappointing. I just wanted to maximize what the machine can do, but there is likely no way way I can get my employer to buy in to this. It is fortunate we even have a mill. The only thing they occasionally use it for is to make replacement parts for downed automation equipment.

Thanks!