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G Man
04-20-2003, 11:27 PM
Hey guys I am wondering if the plans for the 7th sojurn (pardon the spelling.) Are worth the money or if I should just desighn my own router??? Another ? Do the gecko drives work the same way as the stepper drivers? do you need different software...


Thanks

Gary

cncadmin
04-20-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by G Man
Do the gecko drives work the same way as the stepper drivers? do you need different software...


Thanks

Gary

Yes the Gecko drives work the same as stepper drives and no you don't need deferent software.

WOODKNACK
04-20-2003, 11:31 PM
Well I bet they are worth the money. But be forwarned, The guy is very tempermental! If you decide to build your own, im sure we will all help you make decisions along the way. Alot of good ideas floating around here...

G Man
04-20-2003, 11:38 PM
Thanks guys



will probably send for his plans tommorro at least I will have a starting point. does anybody Know of a less expensive place to find rails and bearing like the ones Balsa man used on his router ....

Or maybe other ideas that would be as accurate with less cost

Gary

anoel
04-21-2003, 01:47 AM
I built the 7th Sojurn. Johns plans are well worth the money. I learned a ton on how CNC works and The 7th is a great way to whet your appitite and learn.

cncman
04-21-2003, 09:18 PM
Make your machine, it's alot funner that way :)

balsaman
04-22-2003, 01:18 AM
I have not seen his plans but from what I have heard everyone who has bought them has been happy with the quality.

Eric

chuckknigh
04-22-2003, 07:15 AM
Does he also cover the steppers, controllers, etc? Or is it just the basic structure that he covers in the plans.

He made a comment on one page about how some people could just look at the picture and figure out how to build it -- I'm one of those people...on the mechanical side. (His designs, by the way, are elegantly simple -- he's good) My concern involves the electronics more than anything else. If his plan covers this side of the construction, then I'd be interested in them as well.

I've found software that converts DXF and HPGL to GCode...this is why I'd like to stay with a standard system. So that I can output from any common CAD package, and end up with predictable results.

-- Chuck Knight

WOODKNACK
04-22-2003, 09:50 AM
I think when you buy his plans it only covers that basic plan. Not sure I never bought one. But I am one of the guys that have copied his idea and built a machine from what I saw on his page. He even put a picture of it up on his page. He has since then taken it down. Must of made him look bad, becouse I did'nt buy his plans. He calls me a CNC PARROT. LOL. I have a picture of it on my site (http://users.adelphia.net/~wjdupont) . Its under photo gallery, go check it out.
As far as the stepper motors, controllers, and software I think you will get a ton of info on that stuff here on this site... There are some very smart people here who have "been there done it." You will get a mix of differnt ideas here instead of a onesided ideas there..

balsaman
04-22-2003, 11:53 AM
Nice avitar dude...:)

You should try and keep out of trouble..:)

Eric

cncadmin
04-22-2003, 11:55 AM
Pauly want a cracker? LOL :) Look at me I'm the captain crunch guy!

balsaman
04-22-2003, 11:58 AM
Yours is very cool too...sort of suits ya!

:)

Eric

(hey we better stay on topic before the Mods move the posts.)

WOODKNACK
04-22-2003, 01:00 PM
Pauly wants to build a new cnc machine............ LOL

Got my controller already to go. Just need to make the machine!
Just call me a "Motor Spinner" for now... LOL

G MAN,
Have you checked outHobby cnc (http://www.hobbycnc.com) He has a plan to build a machine and also sells stepper motors, the controller and power supply. Worth checking out! Also there is Stepperworld (http://www.stepperworld.com) he sells complete kits. motors,controller,power supply. Balsaman is using one of his kits I believe. I have a Xylotex (http://www.xylotex.com) controller and 24 volt power supply that seems to work great!! Any questions feel free to ask away..

chuckknigh
04-23-2003, 01:19 AM
I think when you buy his plans it only covers that basic plan.

Yeah, but my concern is how far his plans go. If it's only building the structure -- that looks to be easy. If it includes the electronic interfacing, that's a different story -- I've never done that end of it before.

Not sure I never bought one. But I am one of the guys that

How did you implement the electronics? Did you buy a kit, or build something yourself?

-- Chuck Knight

P.S. I was wandering Home Depot tonight, and I looked at the drawer glides. There are some "bottom" mounted drawer glides that have ball bearings and run VERY smoothly. I could not detect any slop in them. They're relatively cheap, too, at $5 a piece. Has anyone used these to provide the movement for the sliding parts? They'd surely be cheaper than purpose built slides.

Only down side is that they're long. 14" - 22" Not a problem for the table and gantry, but a 14" long Z axis? That's a bit ridiculous for a wood router -- I might have to turn this into something even more capable, just because I can.

WOODKNACK
04-23-2003, 01:33 AM
I think if you buy a plan to build a machine. That is all you will get. I dont think he will go into electronic, etc.....

yes I bought a kit from stepperworld. I bought there sp-3/ht system. Had 3 60oz motors the controller board and a 24 volt power supply. A great starter kit. could only get 6 IPM but a good learning tool. He has other kits that are more powerful and I would suggest one of them instead of the sp-3/ht. There are other out there to. Check out my web site and look at the links..
I was just looking at those same slides at home depot. as a matter of fact I bought 2 of the 14". The problem is, what ever the cutting area is the machine has to be twice as big becouse half the slides hang out. I also took one and cut the top half so that it was only 4 inches so I could maybe use it for a z axis. It had to much play in it, got real sloppy. I am now thinking about just using a 1/2 or 5/8 ss round bar and some hardware store oillite bushings. Im still in the figuring stages right now.

Dan
04-23-2003, 12:04 PM
There are some really nice plans at:

http://www.data-cut.com/router.html

I bought these plans and they are extremely nice. Part lists, assemble sequences, and good support.

coherent
04-23-2003, 05:47 PM
Just for your info regarding John's web forum... This was posted on John Kleinbauer's web site today.

"04/23/03 I closed the Hardware Store CNC Conference. I don't have the time to deal with trouble makers. Rather than save me time, it has became a nuisance. My customers and friends can Email me direct like before. Thanks! "

Personally, I never bought his plans and built my own Machine from scratch from looking a various cnc routers across the web. I believe they are an excellent start to you if you're a beginner and want to avoid the initial learing curve. $30 bucks or so is well worth the hours of research, questions and trial and error and will put you quickly on path. That said however, I think if you are fairly good with woodworking or mechanical stuff, you will have no problem from scratch. I've built 3 now, all worked and all were a learning process. I'm sure most any of the folks here would be more than happy to help with any aspect of building a home machine, including design specifics and ways to overcome problems. I know I'd be more than happy to help in any way I can, as I have no problem sharing my info and experiences... and please, share what you learn with others, and remember in a year or two from now what it was like starting out and all the questions you had. Pass it on to others. The more hobby CNC'ers we can get out there the better! Web forums such as this one or one of the many set up by the cnc software developers are terrific support and learingin tools. You'll learn tons just by reading the past messages and archives.
-Marc

G Man
04-23-2003, 08:01 PM
Hey ,

Guys thanks for all the great info ....

I have been very busy just got back to this thread..

My Dad wants to help me desighn my own machine. so I am going to go that way. This weekend my brother came up from Texas for Easter and I got a great Easter Basket..

24V,10V,5V reg. 10 Amp power supply plus 3 Pacific Scientific 100 oz steppers and an assortment of other motors including some unmarked dual stacks ( am investigating what they are no markings on the motors) so I am starting to get parts together..

Will probably order XYLOTEC controller. In future weeks.

Sounds like there is lots of help here. Expect lots of questions

Thanks

Gary

ger21
04-23-2003, 08:10 PM
Hey Woodnack, I bought some 18 5/8"long 3/4" Stainless shafts from a guy on ebay for $15.00 each.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2525600292&category=633

If you email him, he'll sell you them individually for $15 each. I also bought some linear bearings on ebay for $10 each. They turn up every few weeks. For $70, I have what I need to build a very smooth and rigid z-axis. Not sure what you're budget is, but you may want to look into this. Not sure if you've seen my design, here's a pic. Not yet finished, though, but I may start building the Z-axis and gantry next week. I have 2 250oz. steppers coming tomorrow and I got my xylotex drivers last week. It will be some time before the entire machine will be finished, though, as I have a ton of projects to complete first.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ger21/CNC/Render1.jpg

Gerry

HomeCNC
04-23-2003, 11:51 PM
Ger21,

What kind of tubing are you going to use for that axis in the pic you supplied?

WOODKNACK
04-24-2003, 03:49 AM
Hey Ger12,
Thanks for the info on the rods. Im still not sure what I am going to do yet. I work In a ship yard (http://www.gdbiw.com/) So access to material is very good! We can buy scrap for little of nothing. Plus I work in materials so I have acces to just about anything.
Im also glad there are people out there that agree with me About John! Man hes diggin himself a hole. Enough said about him! This site is and will continue to grow. And I feel it will be the best place to find and share your info, And a good place to find new friends that are into the same thing you are!

b4yourtime
04-24-2003, 01:28 PM
I agree with woodknack! this a great place and will continue to grow, it is nice not to have to buy something just to feel welcome! woodknack helped me on "the other forum" to make up my mind on what controller to use for my motors....thanks woodknack

b4yourtime.

WOODKNACK
04-24-2003, 01:39 PM
Glad to help anyone! Im also in need of help too..... LOL

creative_mind
04-24-2003, 02:05 PM
Hi, ger21

Just wondering what software you used to produce this picture:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ger21/CNC/Render1.jpg.

Thanks in advance.

coherent
04-24-2003, 03:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing regarding John Kleinbauer's plans. I think his plans are a great start if you want to build a hobby machine and have never done so before. If you want to get started with a hobby CNC machine cheaply and with a tested design, I don't see how you can go wrong with his plans. I understand that his plans are a business for him and therefore he must somehow protect his time and investment. When it means food in your mouth, it makes all the difference in the world and you have to respect that. To date I have not met or conversed with anyone who hasn't been helpful and supportive of my efforts to continue to learn more about CNC, including John, and if you're fairly skilled and have the time, a scratch build machine is a fairly easy to obtain goal, but as I said before plans take a lot of guesswork, trial and error out of the process. It all depends on what your goals are... for some the trial and error is part of the fun, for others it's the headache. All this of course is based on only my experience and opinions... and we all know what they say about opinions! Happy building!
-Marc

cncadmin
04-24-2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by coherent
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing regarding John Kleinbauer's plans. I think his plans are a great start if you want to build a hobby machine and have never done so before. If you want to get started with a hobby CNC machine cheaply and with a tested design, I don't see how you can go wrong with his plans. I understand that his plans are a business for him and therefore he must somehow protect his time and investment. When it means food in your mouth, it makes all the difference in the world and you have to respect that. To date I have not met or conversed with anyone who hasn't been helpful and supportive of my efforts to continue to learn more about CNC, including John, and if you're fairly skilled and have the time, a scratch build machine is a fairly easy to obtain goal, but as I said before plans take a lot of guesswork, trial and error out of the process. It all depends on what your goals are... for some the trial and error is part of the fun, for others it's the headache. All this of course is based on only my experience and opinions... and we all know what they say about opinions! Happy building!
-Marc

Well put! :)

ger21
04-24-2003, 06:02 PM
Jeff, the tubing is 2" EMT conduit. about $9 for 10 feet at HD. The framework is all CNC cut 3/4" Baltic Birch. I might be able to find some time to start assembling this weekend. If I can find the time, I'll post some pics.
Woody, The modelling was done in Autocad 2002 (mostly extrusions), then exported as .3ds and imported and rendered in Lightwave ($1500 animation software - too many hobbbies).

creative_mind
04-24-2003, 06:16 PM
ger21,

Have you tried SolidWorks 2003?

creative_mind
04-24-2003, 06:22 PM
ger21,

Have you tried SolidWorks 2003?

ger21
04-24-2003, 07:13 PM
No, but I've played with Inventor a little, a little Mastercam, a little EdgeCam. Actually, I use Autocad everyday and can do pretty much anything I want with it very quickly, as I have written a lot of custom VBA stuff for it.

Gerry

chuckknigh
04-24-2003, 09:46 PM
I understand that his plans are a business for him and therefore he must somehow protect his time and investment.

And yet he gives remarkably detailed renderings on his site, from which I am able to deduce most of the construction details. Given the motivation, I could probably duplicate his machine pretty closely, just from the various photos and renderings on his site.

He even mentions this on his site. Needless to say I don't have the exact quote, but it goes something like this. "Some people could look at the photo above, and build the machine. Others need plans."

It all depends on what your goals are... for some the trial and error is part of the fun, for others it's the headache.

Precisely. I'm in the first group...somewhat. I love the trial part...but error, while a learning experience, is not as much fun.

-- Chuck Knight

gmfoster
04-25-2003, 08:42 PM
Reguarding Johns plans.

I bought the set for the 7th Sojourn and they are ok. The printer he used had a dot or two out which isn't a killer but it would be nice if it did a better job. His plans are pretty complete and he provides enough electricial information to build your own drivers if you really want to. Also a little bit of information on G codes and a couple of small examoles. Pointers to some free as well as some low cost software. The real negative is that he doesn't provide a parts list or source of parts. And inspite of him calling it hardwward store CNC some of the parts are a little hard to come up with. many people including me have had a hard time finding the window chanel he uses. He also uses a small flanged bearing that he doesn't give a source for.

I would be glad I bought the plans except for one thing. He seems to be suce a jerk and hops from on position to another. I was really enjoying reading his fourm similar to this one. Then he went on a rant about all the other CNC sites ect. Then closed his fourm and is now supossed to be starting another. Though I bought a set of plans I won't be joining a closed group. There were some great pictures there from some of the members. Clock parts as well as wooden model aircraft parts. Now just as I got interested they are all gone. I saw him get kicked off the Cad.Cam.Dro group a couple of years back because everyone but him was wrong. He absoutly could not post in a pleasent maner. So yes his plans are worth the money but dealing with him isn't worth the agrivation.

I also bought a set of the hobby.CNC plans and they are much better presented and tho the cost to build is higher he lists sources for everything used. I will end up building both systems but doub't that I'll buy anything more from John just because of his attitude. But he does have enough cleaver ideas that I might buy something someday but I won't expect any support..

Garry

creative_mind
04-25-2003, 09:14 PM
gmfoster,

Enough said about John Klienbaur.

I am a newbie and I have checked around the internet for the CNC machine I wish to build. The HC CNC website, John's site, did provide several insights for me to go on with my desire to build one. John's information were helpful at times, particularly the stepper motors, the motor torque, and the threaded rods. A lot of other builders were there and shared some pictures. Lots of ohh's and ahh's, I think we all had some fun.

It's sad when someone like John becomes paranoid and digs himself in a hole, closing off a lot of other builders who didn't buy his plans, but shared or wish to share their ideas free. No one complained about John's attitude, maybe some of the builders put up with him which I thought was somewhat pathetic. Let John do what he wants to do...maybe he'll snap out of it...or be his downfall. Remember Apple Computers and IBM? Apple became greedy, and IBM was an open system. The rest is history.

So, let's make this CNCZone a usefull site for all of us and not be so political about sharing ideas. If someone wants to make some money...fine. But if ranting about it...well...that's not my problem, go somewhere else. ;)

WOODKNACK
04-26-2003, 12:32 AM
I agree with woody. Weve have all said our piece. NOW LETS GET BUILDING AND SHARE SOME GOOD IDEAS!!!!

gmfoster
04-26-2003, 10:43 AM
The CNC Parrot said...
I agree with woody. Weve have all said our piece. NOW LETS GET BUILDING AND SHARE SOME GOOD IDEAS!!!!


No not everyone has said thier piece. As new people show up here they may well have thier piece to say... This was my first post on the subject. After all the topic of the thread is John's plans. So people may continue to share thier experences as they join the list and catch up on thier reading.

I think the most critical part about Johns plans is that the parts are not readily available and sure not from any hardware store I know of. He should at least sell the store front aluminum. I have been to a few places in this bustleing place and have't found a source of it yet...

And since John took his site down without warning I don't even have the contact information for Frank that was selling it..

As far as going forward I am all for that but as they say in if you don't look at the past the mistakes are sure to be repeated...

If anyone has a copy of the contact information for the Glass place I'd appreciate getting it again and this time I will store it locally...

Garry

WOODKNACK
04-26-2003, 11:32 AM
I got some of that stuff from a glass company in my area called PORTLAND GLASS. Im going to attach a photo that I found on the net that uses real hardware store material to take the place of johns material. THIS IS NOT MY IDEA, I found it on a hobby forum. But it certainly looks like a good one! They use angle iron or U channel. A very easy make for anybody...

gmfoster
05-17-2003, 10:55 AM
Hello

If anyone is still following this thread I need the contact information for "Frank" he had posted on Johns site that he was willing to ship pieces of the store front Alum fo a reasonable price. I didn't save the information as it was posted, but then John closed his forum down.

I have written and asked John for Franks contact information but he has decided not to give it to me. Because of the posts I made here earlier about his plans I guess.


So if any if you happened to save the information I'd appreciate Franks contact information.


Garry

WOODKNACK
05-17-2003, 08:04 PM
Well Thats why I love John so much! NOT!! go to your local glass company and ask for a piece. Or look at the post i did earlyer in this forum and use aluminum angle iron and plastic to do the same thing!!

WOODKNACK
05-17-2003, 08:18 PM
I am in the works building a new machine now. I am using 3/4 inside diameter u channel I got at home depot and plastic I got at wood workers. Here is the aluminum and the u channel.

WOODKNACK
05-17-2003, 08:26 PM
here is the plastic in the u channel. I did not need to cut the plastis i got from wood workers. fit right in the the channel perfect!

gmfoster
05-17-2003, 11:29 PM
Woodknack says >Well Thats why I love John so much! NOT!! go >to your local glass company and ask for a piece. Or look at the >post i did earlyer in this forum and use aluminum angle iron and >plastic to do the same thing!!

Well I have been to some local glas places and they didn't have it. With work it is hard to look them all up. That is why I was going to take the easy way out and just call Frank. As far as making it up that seems to be a quite a bit of work and hard to keep alligned to the level of an extrusion. But it is one option if i don't find the stuff i am looking for. I just figyured someone here had Franks address. or contact information..

Garry

WOODKNACK
05-18-2003, 08:53 AM
That one problem for John plans. You cant just go to your local hardware store and get the stuff you want.

ALSO DID YOU BUY A SET OF PLANS OFF JOHN? IF SO HE SHOULD GIVE YOU ALL THE INFO YOU NEED. IF HE DOESNT THAT REALLY SHOWS WHAT KIND OF A BUINESS MAN HE IS..


Here is how the rails are fitted to the sides. The U channel was very thin so I did'nt want to drill holes and screw it. So I glued it with Epoxy glue. I'll show more picture when I get more done. I have been working around my house while it is nice. Not enough time in the day.

gmfoster
05-18-2003, 07:11 PM
Yes
I bought the plans for the 7th Sojourn. And no John won't give me Franks contact information or let me into the fourm to get the information myself. He said it is because of the posts I made here earlier. He says I was unfair to him in those posts. In his words the joke is on me! Thats ok I will find a source or make do with something else.

So I guess it doesn't make any difference whether you buy anything from him or not. The support seems to be more on a whim and which way the wind is blowing that day than any desire to provide customer service/support.

It is interesting that he still reads here....

Garry

WOODKNACK
05-18-2003, 07:41 PM
Thats going some! You bought something off him and he wont support it!!! Boy what a jerk!!!

I hope anybody thinking about getting his plans reads this first.

Thats why I wouldn't recomend his site on here.

cncadmin
05-18-2003, 08:00 PM
Anyone want to go into the plan making business let me know, I can print and mail out all the plans you want. :banana:

WOODKNACK
05-18-2003, 08:24 PM
CNCadmin,

I think oh hell I know by just looking at all the people that have viewed these post. That there is a big market out there for it! Id like to see someone out there compete with John and see how he does then! I think everybody would know the end results.
I think we are all seeing John's end results now!!!!

WOODKNACK
05-18-2003, 09:42 PM
If you bought John's plans, Then this is what it says on his site!

If you bought my plans, fill out a new application. Email your real name and what you bought. I will then click you in! See you in the Inner Circle.


HE MUST BE SITTING IN THERE BY HIMSELF..... HAHAHAHA. i COULD'NT RESIST.............LOL

cncadmin
05-18-2003, 11:56 PM
I offered him to come here, but I got noreply.:confused:

abasir
05-19-2003, 12:57 AM
Out of curiosity, why do people need plan for such "basic" setup?

chuckknigh
05-19-2003, 01:31 AM
It's not simple for everyone -- especially a first time builder.

For some (me included) the fun is in figuring out the details, drawing up the plans, anticipating the "little stuff" that can be overlooked...that sort of thing. And, I'll *understand* everything about my machine, on a very intimate level.

For others, they want a proven design with no surprises. That's where plans come in. Whether they're unable to conceive a design like his, or whether they just don't want to "mess with it," there will always be a market for plans...even for relatively simple constructs. A CNC machine like Cranky's designs, I would rate as a medium-level project. They're simple designs (complex is easy...simple takes genius), but they will require some precision to minimize flex.

I actually would like to take a moment and thank Cranky...if you're reading this, John, you inspired me to view a CNC machine as something I could actually see myself building. And, your challenge on your web site -- "Some can build this machine simply by looking at this picture" inspired me to draw up a design based loosely on one of yours. Thank you for including so many good photos, of so many different angles.

-- Chuck Knight

WOODKNACK
05-19-2003, 08:33 AM
Chuck,
Be careful. You might just become the next CNC PARROT!!! hehehe..

If you havent read the parrot story. Its a must read...
THE PARROT STORY (http://users.adelphia.net/~wjdupont/parrot_story.htm)

ToyMaker
05-19-2003, 10:37 AM
I bought the "Brute" plans and yes, in todays market, they are worth the $36.
I earn my living taking engineering drawings & notes and turning them into maintenance manuals that military enlisted people use to keep electronic equipment running.
In a past life I designed, built, marketed, and sold mobile robot kits. I also authored, illustrated, and published the construction manual, which included detailed assembly drawings and instructions.
JCK touts his plans as being of hobby machines for amateur builders, and calling them plans is exactly correct. He provides plan drawings. There is no assembly sequence, no instruction, no parts list (not really needed, exept for the *@#$% flanged bearing which is not in any hardware store I've been to), no sources (although he does stress that you should improvise :) ).

Historical note: it was WoodKnack and I who were the "troublemakers" that motivated JCK to shut down his public discussion forum by voicing opinions that were contrary to his. For this I apologize to the folks who visited there who aren't customers. There was some good info there.

I must add that I firmly believe that freedom of the press belongs to the man who owns one! JCK owns the hardware store cnc forum and it is entirely within his rights to do with it as he will.

robotic regards,

Tom

cncman
05-19-2003, 10:42 AM
Corect you are, but if you pay for a product you have every right to voice complaints and or concerns. In doing so you should recieve any less than great customer service. It sounds to me like he is a ego driven.

ToyMaker
05-19-2003, 10:50 AM
cncman:

I refered to his rights, not his business sense :)

robotic regards,

Tom

cncman
05-19-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by ToyMaker
cncman:

I refered to his rights, not his business sense :)

robotic regards,

Tom

You're right, :banana: but what business sense?:confused:

WOODKNACK
05-19-2003, 11:19 AM
Toymaker,
You said this..
Historical note: it was WoodKnack and I who were the "troublemakers" that motivated JCK to shut down his public discussion forum by voicing opinions that were contrary to his. For this I apologize to the folks who visited there who aren't customers. There was some good info there.

I don't think you should have to apologize for voicing your opionion! I don't think you or I did anything wrong. We did'nt down his site. You just asked him a question and he flew off the handle! I'm the type of person that can't and won't just sit back while someone is getting sh_ _ on for no good reason!

I just think it is awful that someone bought his plans and becouse they are a part of THIS forum he won't support them anymore!
NOW THATS GOING SOME!!!

Nobody deserves an ass kissing like John wants! He thinks becouse he works 12 or 16 hours a day we should all bend down and kiss his feet!

coherent
05-19-2003, 02:56 PM
I remember seeing the link, but didn't copy it and it's not available on the new site. I was lucky and after hitting a couple of local glass shops was given quite a bit. Some is used and some (was) new. I think I have 20-30 feet of the stuff in a few different profiles. I have never purchased John's plans so don't know the exact profile you want or length. If you are having trouble and can't find any where near where you live, let me know. I will send you a piece or two (yes for free) if you pay the UPS/FedEx or USPS shipping cost. (Sorry I'm not that nice). If there is a market, I'm sure I can get more of the new stuff in the future, but not sure of the cost per foot involved.
-Marc

ToyMaker
05-19-2003, 03:28 PM
Coherent:
One place I stopped at wanted US$15 per foot! I didn't get it there :) . I finally found a place where they were willing to give me a few bits of scrap. I gave the guy $5 for coffee/beer.

robotic regards,

Tom

ToyMaker
05-19-2003, 03:34 PM
WOODKNACK:

I agree with your view but he is who he is.

I apologized >for< being instrumental in the end of a (potentially) valuable public service.

I apologized >to< the folks who no longer have the service available.

robotic regards,

Tom

balsaman
05-19-2003, 04:06 PM
Just for the record, John was upset about people who were not his customers giving him greif about how he ran his site. From what I can tell he is very good to those who have purchased his plans. I still frequent his closed discussion group. He has 67 registered members, and the forum is going very well.

Nobody is obligated to open a forum at thier own expense and let everyone in on it, and give all thier secrets away. John decided to keep the forum and the secrets for his customers. It is his right, and it may just be good business sense too...

Just my 2 cents (sense?). :)

Eric

WOODKNACK
05-19-2003, 04:59 PM
Hey Balsaman,
you said.
Just for the record, John was upset about people who were not his customers giving him greif about how he ran his site. From what I can tell he is very good to those who have purchased his plans. I still frequent his closed discussion group. He has 67 registered members, and the forum is going very well.


That great for John! BUT GMFOSTER WAS A PAYING CUSTOMER AND HE GETS NO SERVICE FROM JOHN NOW!!!!!!!!!

Thats what I am talking about.

If people want to get pushed around by him then thats up them I guess!!


Just my 2 cents !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chuckknigh
05-19-2003, 06:19 PM
You're absolutely correct -- it was his right to act the way he did. It was his right to close off his forum to anyone, save for those he deems worthy. And it is his right to keep it up or take it down as he sees fit.

However, I feel he is completely wrong in his assessment of the situation. Turning away potential customers from his site is suicide...at least the way he did it.

At the very least, since he did do the reorganization into multiple forums, he should have left one or two open to the public. This would have allowed some generic discussion of the plans, and of the more generic concept of CNC wood routers. With him as the moderator he could easily have kept his secrets within his "inner circle."

I understand the impulse to keep things to himself...but sharing information usually results in growth, and at least in the computer industry, a better and more robust product. He freely admits that suggestions from others have led him in new directions, and have resulted in improvements to his designs.

A public forum could serve 2 functions -- minimizing the amount of email he has to deal with, since long time members could help answer the questions...and as a sales tool for those potential customers. An ad says one thing -- experienced people discussing what was in the ad...that says something different.

Sadly, in the process of shutting down his forum, he has managed to create an online reputation as a thin-skinned, raving, off the wall, moody lunatic. Good plans or not, being known as a raving lunatic is not usually good for business...regardless of whether the assessment is true or not.

He needs to do some serious PR damage control, if you ask me.

-- Chuck Knight

gmfoster
05-19-2003, 09:47 PM
Balsaman said
Just for the record, John was upset about people who were not his customers giving him greif about how he ran his site. From what I can tell he is very good to those who have purchased his plans. I still frequent his closed discussion group. He has 67 registered members



Balsaman
You cut great parts but you must not read to well because John won't let me in. Though I only wanted in to find Franks conatct information. And Coherent says its not there now anyway.

I said a couple of things here that John took oofense to and so he refuses to let me in the frurm or give me any support. Its no great loss but people need to understand that I did buy his plans and what i said that is so bad is located here on this thread. I actually thought I was restrained about saying anythin negative about his plans.

The joke of his plans are that he claims to be hardware store and the parts can be harder to come by than some of the more complex machines.

Now all the parts can be hunted down and the price will be good overall but you can't get the following at most hardware stores.

MDF
PVC sheet in 1/4 inch thickness.
The store front Alum that is the heart of the system.
The flanged bearig he shows.

You can get the threaded rod, pipe and most of the screws ext.

But none of this is a killer as you can hunt it all down. And Frank was reasonable on the aluminum if I could just find his contact information again..


Garry
Who did purchase the plans and doesn't really regret that, but does wiish that John could be a little more reasonable. But thats is his choice also.

balsaman
05-19-2003, 10:58 PM
Gmfoster,

Hey man sorry to hear that. I can read fine but I didn't realise that he didn't let you back in. I must have missed that one. I don't know Franks contact info, or I would give it to you.

I missed an entire page of posts since I was away for the weekend. I have gone back and read them now.

Being Moderator here I think I will just keep out of this from here on in. A good moderator should be nuetral I guess.

Eric

ToyMaker
05-20-2003, 09:00 AM
All this talk about JCK must be warming the ****les of his heart since, it is said, there is no such thing as bad publicity :) .

Anyway, many (if not most) of his good ideas are posted publicly on the RCGroups forum in a thread called (I think) "looking for cnc". And maybe the "Frank" contact info too, but there is a LOT to wade through for that one bit.

robotic regards,

Tom

P.S.
(the censor 'bot is really tuned ! even imbedded anatomical references are starred out :) )

the thread name is "looking for cnc mill" and the exact link is

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62920&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

there are 80 (yes, eighty!) pages

robotic regards,

Tom

cncadmin
05-21-2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by ToyMaker


the thread name is "looking for cnc mill" and the exact link is

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62920&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

there are 80 (yes, eighty!) pages

robotic regards,

Tom

It's started back in sep 2002. :rolleyes:

trent2530
01-05-2004, 12:52 AM
I have considered producing plans at some time in the future after I learn a lot more of this, and I wonder what are the existing patents or copyrights to the machines that are out there now? Don't want to step into another man's turf.

cncadmin
01-05-2004, 01:15 AM
I doubt it, it's way to costly to even fight it out in the courts, and you would'nt have to change much to make your design a one of a kind IMO.

chadwiggan
01-08-2004, 09:06 AM
IVE ORDERED JOHNS PLANS WHEN I FIRST GOT INTO CNC AND THE GUY HAS ALOT OF GOOD IDEAS BUT IF YOUR ANYTHING LIKE ME YOULL GET HALF WAY THROUGH THEM AND REALIZE THAT HIS MACHINES VERY VERY BASIC AND YOULL START MODIFYING THE PLANS TO FIT YOUR NEEDS. BUT THEY ARE GOOD FOR SOME DESIGNS LIKE HIS FLOATING NUT OR HIS HOMEMADE LINEAR BEARINGS. THAT IN ITSELF IS WORTH THE 30 BUCKS

chadwiggan
01-08-2004, 09:19 AM
I ALSO FOUND THE ALUMINUM FOR 6 DOLLARS A FOOT AT A PLACE CALLED QUALITY GLASS IN ARCHIBOLD, OH IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED

anoel
01-08-2004, 11:19 AM
Chad, That's one of the beauties of homemade CNC machines...

They are realtively simple mechanical devices. regardless of wether it's JCK's plans or someone else's. I'd pesonally rather have a set of plans like John's rather than a step by step plan that does not encourage you to think about what you are doing.

After spending the $ for John's plans and building a machine. I'm confident that with the knowledge gained that I can build any quality of machine that I would need given an allowing budget. I've made some pretty cool things with my homemade machine. I'm very happy with the support that John has given me as well.

gmfoster
01-08-2004, 10:30 PM
I ALSO FOUND THE ALUMINUM FOR 6 DOLLARS A FOOT AT A PLACE CALLED QUALITY GLASS IN ARCHIBOLD, OH IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED

__________________
CHADWIGGAN

Well I finally tracked down the rail here in Lancaster, Pa but payed much more than that for it. It is also a different size and I have to stop and refigure all the holes and there is some conflicts but nothing that can't be worked out. I actually made a lot of progress on the unit over the Christmas break from work. One thing I took Cranky(wonder how he came by that name) to heart on is, I still have not spun my motors. As of now I have the base,trolley and all the motor and bearing mounts made. Also the mounting plates. Would post a picture but my Fuji was non functional when I got it out for the Christmas Season. I am using plywood instad of MDF for several of the parts just because I am wanting to get some junk cleaned up out of the basement. Hope to spin motors attached to lead screws with in another month or so..

chadwiggan
01-09-2004, 08:39 AM
I BUILT ONE OF HIS PHEONIX MACHINES JUST FOR FUN ABOUT A YEAR AGO AND THE ONLY THING I DONT LIKE ABOUT THE CHANNEL IS ALL THE ADGUSTING TO THE GIBS AND ALL THE SLOP. HE'LL ACTUALLY TELL YOU IN THE PLANS THAT HIS MACHINES HAVE A 1/16 SLOP IN THEM. WHO WANTS THAT.

HEY KEEP GOING ON THAT MACHINE AND GOOD CALL ON THE PLYWOOD THAT MDF WILL SOAK UP ALL YOU PAINT WHEN YOU TURN YOUR BACK.

IVE RECENTLY JUST GOT DONE BUILDING AN ENGRAVER OUT OF SOLID OAK, ILL HAVE A PICTURE SHORTLY, ITS PROBABLY THE BEST LOOKING HOMEBREW IVE EVRE DESIGNED. MAYBE I SHOULD MAKE PLANS TO COMPETE WITH JOHN MY MACHINE COST ABOUT THE SAME TO BUILD AND IM NOT A CRABA$$

DJ Morrow
01-12-2004, 11:46 PM
CHADWIGGAN

The trick to a really nice MDF paint job is primer. Get some good latex primer. When you put the first coat on, it'll get soaked in and little prickles of fibre will stick up a bit. Sand this down. Then give it another coat, and sand again. Now put your finish coat on.

A trick I learned is be sure NOT to shake the can of primer. Then pour off the really thin liquid off the top half and prime with the heavier liquid in the bottom.

And Chadwiggan... NO NEED TO SHOUT

anoel
01-13-2004, 01:54 AM
Use Shellac to prime the MDF, The Shellac will seal it up without causing swelling like water based paint will. + it'll be dry in 15min or so. + you can use any kind of paint on top of the Shellac without harm. Read some wood working mags where they build jigs out of MDF, if they suggest a sealer it'll either be shellac or a type of sanding sealer.

(I paint with just Latex sometimes too when it's not an important piece, but if it's a keeper then it gets the shellac treatment first, especially if I'm going to try to spray paint it.) :)

DJ Morrow
01-14-2004, 12:23 PM
Anoel, would the shelac have the same effect on plywood ? I'm going to build the HobbyCNC and the plans suggest Baltic Birch plywood.

Thanks for the tip. One thing I love about these forums is the wealth of related knowledge.

anoel
01-14-2004, 12:49 PM
yep...

Hobbiest
01-17-2004, 03:45 AM
Just had an idea today for a single or dual head crosstable design. Gonna try to build it this weekend. I'll take plenty of photos so that plans are easy to write up. Oh...$36 or more is too expensive for a machine where the mechanics only cost $50. Mine will be half the build cost. If I knew how to link a photo here, I'd include my working drawings. As I am basically a computer mini-mind, this machine will not only have steppers, but handwheels too. Anybody know of any idiot friendly CAD software that is free or cheap? I am probably one of the biggest cheapskates you will meet, but the machines work good when my friends power them up!

Mr.Chips
01-17-2004, 08:03 AM
Hobbiest,
This is the way I do it and they may be other ways. Post a reply containing text, then "Submit Reply", then "Edit" that posting.
Two rows below "Message Edit" is Attach File", Click "Browse..." and find where you saved the photo/drawing as a JPG, gif, png, zip, bmp, jpeg, then click "OK" in that window.
You will then see the location of the file in the space next to the "Browse..." button. The text can be edited at this time.
When finished click "Save Changes" at bottom of form.

Have seen people post multiple photos in one posting but I havent had any luck here.
There are limits to file size, you may have to reduce the size of the file for it to be attached.
Good luck
Hager

Mr.Chips
01-17-2004, 08:31 AM
Woodknack,
I was looking at the start of your machine here, http://www.cnczone.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
could you post more of the pictures?
Thanks
Hager

ger21
01-17-2004, 10:35 AM
Use the "post reply" buttin at the bottom of the last message, NOT the "Submit Reply" button at the bottom of the page.

Gerry

Hobbiest
01-17-2004, 07:08 PM
Here it is. The idea is to make an entire workstation with computer on the back side, and dual head machine on front. Gonna have to change the design around a little to make a bit skinnier though.

Hobbiest
01-17-2004, 07:22 PM
ok...never mind. File size is too big (2.4). Anybody tell me how to compress?

JamesJames
01-22-2005, 04:35 AM
I'm interested in the 'floating nut' I hear about.
I would pay John for his plans to find out, but he refuses to sell to people overseas, and I'm in Australia.
If you can help me, please email me.
Please do NOT post the details here, because I am sure noone wishes to deprive John of reward for his labours by showing the details to the USA members who are his potential customers.

HobbyCNC
01-22-2005, 12:13 PM
I'm interested in the 'floating nut' I hear about.
I would pay John for his plans to find out, but he refuses to sell to people overseas, and I'm in Australia.
If you can help me, please email me.
Please do NOT post the details here, because I am sure noone wishes to deprive John of reward for his labours by showing the details to the USA members who are his potential customers.

The floating nut allows MAJOR mis-alignment not to bind the nut/leadscrew at the MAJOR cost in backlash. Think of a rectangular nut with the long ends rounded off. Put this rounded off rectangle into a similar shaped cavity that is oversized by about 1/16 all around the perimeter. Put a top and bottom on it to capture it and you'll have the essence of it.

Dave Rigotti

Jay C
01-22-2005, 01:17 PM
I'm new here and while I'm not stupid, I am ignorant. I previous years I've built personal robotics (autonomous MCU controlled mobile platforms), planes of foam (from plans not a kit), worked on my Taig micro lathe, and most recently built several small electric motors. I have a EE background but am severely lacking in mechanical experience. I've already gone down several paths thinking that the task was simple (RC airplanes for example) and after paying my "ignorant tax" (that's the extra money you ave to throw at a project to make it work right cause you didn't know any better and screwed it up the first time) about 4 months later I finally got it right.

Time for hobbies has gotten much shorter these days, so I need a jump start on this new hobby I'm investigating. I prefer to innovate a proven design rather than start from scratch. John's site and his Info pages look like the right jumping off point. The Brute looks like the perfect beginner's project for me as space is limited, and most anything I work on is within that machine's size (though I prefer metal and not wood).

I understand the prinicples of the system, it's the mechanics (the bearings, the slides, alignment, materials) that I worry about. I have looked at HobbyCNC's machine ... 2x2' is too big. So are there any plans in the smaller range that I should also consider. I plan to call around to glass places to find out more about the window channel to make sure it's available as that sounds like it's been an issue.

Sorry for the run on, I just finshed a lathe project, so I'm ready to jump on this one next :D

Thanks in advance,
Jay

HobbyCNC
01-22-2005, 06:43 PM
I'm new here and while I'm not stupid, I am ignorant. I previous years I've built personal robotics (autonomous MCU controlled mobile platforms), planes of foam (from plans not a kit), worked on my Taig micro lathe, and most recently built several small electric motors. I have a EE background but am severely lacking in mechanical experience. I've already gone down several paths thinking that the task was simple (RC airplanes for example) and after paying my "ignorant tax" (that's the extra money you ave to throw at a project to make it work right cause you didn't know any better and screwed it up the first time) about 4 months later I finally got it right.

Time for hobbies has gotten much shorter these days, so I need a jump start on this new hobby I'm investigating. I prefer to innovate a proven design rather than start from scratch. John's site and his Info pages look like the right jumping off point. The Brute looks like the perfect beginner's project for me as space is limited, and most anything I work on is within that machine's size (though I prefer metal and not wood).

I understand the prinicples of the system, it's the mechanics (the bearings, the slides, alignment, materials) that I worry about. I have looked at HobbyCNC's machine ... 2x2' is too big. So are there any plans in the smaller range that I should also consider. I plan to call around to glass places to find out more about the window channel to make sure it's available as that sounds like it's been an issue.

Sorry for the run on, I just finshed a lathe project, so I'm ready to jump on this one next :D

Thanks in advance,
Jay

Just a correction....The HobbyCNC machine has a 24" X travel and 9" Y travel...not 2 x2'

Dave Rigotti

Jay C
01-22-2005, 08:16 PM
Dave, sorry about that, I must have confused yours with one of the many I've looked at today. I must say, I just priced building my own controller ... your price is excellent! Looks like I'll be getting one of your 3AUPC Kit + (3) 80oz-in. Most of the sites I've seen are using these sized motors (to run Sherline or Taig mills).

I have been talking with a buddy of mine about his router here (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=61409#post35968) ... he is using the xylotex 116oz-in steppers. I want to build one like his are these steppers big enough? Any advice you can give me on this?

Thanks ... looking forward to getting started :D

yukonho
01-23-2005, 12:35 AM
Jay, I would guess that the 80 Oz. steppers would be on the small side. I use 3/8-12 leadscrew, and am going to go with 1/2-10 in the future which would tax the motors even more. If you went with a lower pitch screw (my first machine used 1/4-20 allthread) then you would be less likely to miss steps or stall a stepper, but then you are going slower. A bit slower doesn't seem so bad right now, but once you get your machine going I guarantee that you will say "I wish it was faster".
Honestly what I find is that any time a stepper stalls it is due to binding in the nut or the thrust bearings (one of mine is wonkey) more than cutting forces. So it pays to have a good, smooth running leadscrew and linear slides.
colin

ElSuperBeastO
09-14-2007, 10:31 PM
Hmmm........seems like I've arrived a little late to this party? Anywho... I just sent "thin-skinned, raving, off the wall, moody lunatic" as some are referring to him as, 36 Bucks. Should be very interesting To see what kind of reception and product I receive. His style and approach kinda reminds me of a mid 90's "Dennis Leary". As I said, should be interesting.
O'

Jay C
09-15-2007, 09:56 AM
Wow you dug up a super-old post. Dave rocks, the HobbyCNC Pro product rocks. My first kit dies (not sure how but it was my fault. The second board is working fine.

FWIW,
Jay

sansbury
09-16-2007, 05:59 PM
John is a bit eccentric and a taste not everyone will acquire, but the proof is in the pudding. I finished a Brute a couple months ago and am 100% satisfied. Actually working on a Son of 7th now.

The good thing with John's plans for a beginner is that he tells you the way to do everything, and if he doesn't tell you how to do something, it means it doesn't matter, and if you do it the way he tells you, the machine will almost certainly work. My Brute won't compete with a Sherline or Taig, but for anout 1/10th the cost I'm delighted. They aren't fancy but they get the job done.

Also be sure to sign up for his private builder's forum. There are plenty of people there who have built his machines and can help you, and John also answers a lot of questions. With all the free designs out there his stuff seems to be falling out of fashion, but I would still recommend it highly to anyone who isn't too proud to call themselves a novice.

ElSuperBeastO
10-13-2007, 03:43 AM
Got Klienbaurs plans (7th) in the mail a couple of weeks ago. Pretty straight forward and I've made some decent progress on the structure, rails and trolley assembly. Spend most of my time reading/learning cnc theory and collecting build materials than on actual machine constuction so far though. Which I suppose is the whole point ...........plenty more to learn! Even though I still have along way to go on this project, with respect to the original question, I would have to say "yes" his plans are still good value if a basic/budget machine is your build objective.