I was wanting to get a little feedback here from the board if you had to chose one of 2 models which would you chose and why.
G0602 10" x 22" Bench Top Metal Lathe or
G0516 Combo Lathe w/ Milling Attachment

I am mainly asking coz i am in the market for a new machine. About 90% of the work i do is with aluminum or brass just to give an idea of what i am doing with it. and about the largest OD i turn is about 7"

see my post in the microlux 7x14 thread below, I would go with the go516 IMHO. As you get two pieces of equipment if you buy the base and seperate the mill.
chris

are you going to cnc them? if you want to manual thread and need 1" stock hole, I would go with 10x22. I was considering this one when I ran across an used emco compact 8 that I just picked up.

I believe 516 does not have hardened way, which 602 does, but it is also a great value with the milling head.


remember that swing over the cross slide is about 6" for 516 both.

you may also consider 11x26, which has 7" swing over the slide

Hi, just my 2c worth, I'd go for a lathe with the biggest spindle bore, small bores can't handle any bars of usefull diam, and get the longest distance between centres.
Those short bed lathes are a PITA, second to none.
Ian.

i do plan to do a CNC conversion on them but not instantly i have a few projects that are in bad need to be finished before i can do that conversion

get the G0602. Although the other machine is a good idea and value, I think that combo machines are an invitation for irritation when your working. The mill part will get in your way when you are trying to use the lathe, and the lathe part will get in your way when you are milling.

I'll give my 2 cents also. I bought the G0516 mill/lathe combo. I do not regret it at all. I went to Grizzly in Springfield to pick out a mill. But when I got there and started talking to the people there, I realized that I could use the lathe as much if not more than the mill. After looking at the options, (And how much room I had in the truck :) ) I decided on the g0516. I liked the design, included items and the idea that the sum of the parts were commonly discussed on this site.

I could have bought a large single use machine, but I would have kicked myself after I got home. I am confident that I made the right decision. Next will be the Grizzly horizontal/vertical mill and the gunsmith lathe. But that will be after I sell my old house and get my new shop put up.

I do dislike the belt controls for changing speed on the lathe but it isn't that hard to change. Plus, I am not without a mill or a lathe, And I spent about the same as you are looking at for just the lathe.

If you find it cumbersome or irritating to set up and use the mill, you can always order the x2 base from LMS for $149 and have 2 seperate machines.

I have just finished installing the x and y axis scales for the grizzly 3 axis mill DRO and I love the setup. I have the Z axis brackets to finish and hope that I will have time for that this weekend. But man does the DRO save time. I know it isn't cnc yet. But when I get more time, I will be ordering the Xylotex kit and starting that process as well. I am going to leave mine as a combo when I do.

Hi, once you've used a DRO it's like walking barefoot over stony ground to be without it.
CNC is a whole new different way of doing it, and opens up possibilities that are impossible to achieve any other way.
Ian.

Oh I'm sure it would. But I am enjoying the manual labor that I put into the combo as well.

I will be doing CNC pretty soon. But realistically, I deal with Pcs all day long and sometimes need a break from the normal cinundrums they cause.

Even though the DRO I have is not a simple device, I'm taking the k.i.s.s. approach to learning right now. With as many accesories as I can afford of course . ;)

Hi Mcraig, not knowing the machines, but knowing the type, I would personally not go for a combo machine.
While it would suit most people's needs that relate to this type of configuration, I feel that it is a compromise.
You can never expect a lathe to perform as a mill with the required attachment, rigidity is the problem.
As an old machinist from way back I'd always go for a lathe that was up to the job, preferring to spend the money on second hand industrial stuff, same money more machine scenario, and look at the mill as an entirely different requirement.
Before I made a choice on that set-up, I'd have to have a real time trial on the type of materials and tooling that I'd expect it to work with.
Once again I'd buy second hand to get the price down, but not for being too tight to spend the loot.
This way you get a machine that is already at market value and can be resold at that price if and when the machine doesn't come up to expectations.
This way you can run the machine for as long as it takes and if it's a no-go situation, then sell it on for what you paid for it, no loss, but lots the wiser.
They look good in the showroom but there's more to it than the pristine gloss of a machine on show.
Ian.

Hi Ian not to hijack but i just got a dovetail scraping job on a atlas-cluasing for the cross slide this should prove fun.

At anyrate, I was and still am in the secondary market looking for a lathe, its hard to get in the states now. Many are inflated in price and its hard to tell if its good without looking at (ala ebay) for an exeperinced eye. Someone without exeperience would be well off not to try and buy a second hand lathe untill they have a firm understanding for the basics. I cannot speak for down under but at least in the midwest its been up and down to try and get a decent smaller lathe. The combo machine he asked about is made by sieg(the c6), the mill attachement(the x2) ships seperately and you don't even have to attach it. I would order a base and you have 2 machines right out of the box. I was lucky to to get a deal on a machine(g4000 or 9x20) that I know was in good conditon at 10 years of age, but its hard to say on anything else. It is of course is chinese, its not the best its not a the atlas-clausing I am working on, but it suits and its not all worn to high heavy like the 29 year old machine I am working on, which right now faces a cup on the order of .030 in 3 inches. Best of all I can move it around!

regards
Chris

I understand what your saying handlewanker,

But owning the combo he is asking about. I am in a position to speak of the quality of the machine. It is plenty solid for the tasks that are asked of it. In fact the combo version is much more rigid than the x2 by itself. The base of the x2 weighs 60 lbs. The base (Lathe) of the X2 on the g0516 is 297 lbs. So there is an increase in stability and swing by going that way. So it truely is a win win situation on the combo.

I see what your saying about used machines. But I have been down that road in other equipment and always have been disappointed. I prefer to start learning on something that has a warranty, customer service and a following of people that can answer questions with specifics. I have achieved all of that wth my g0516 and am very pleased I did. I have bought a $2k thermal dynamics plasma cutter that was used, sold on ebay as single phase, turned out to be 3 phase and once I got a place to use it, turned out didn't work. So I ended up buying a new hypertherm plasma cutter for $1k that was new and spent $3k doing it total.

With used equipment, it's yours if it is bad or worn out. You can get good deals if you are experianced. But there are to many bridgeports, etc out there that only have "Highway miles" if you know what I mean.

You are not loosing anything from this lathe by having the mill attached. The mounting bracket is a hefty L Base on the rear of the lathe with it's own support. It can be removed and no harm will be done to the unit at all.

I think the combo machines are great for the aspiring home machinist with limited space(apartment, small shed shop, etc.). Me myself I prefer having a seperate mill and lathe. But I always thought the combo machines are great for tight space situations.

wow, lots of great responses here and the information has been very helpful so far

Hi all, I would agree on the conveniance part as to having two machines in one available, especially if you're pushed for space.
As to buying second hand and also old machinery, same as for a second hand car, if you don't know anything about cars-beware!
I suppose I'm lucky as I spent my life around machinery, and now in retirement have re-tooled my workshop to cater for my whim.
My biggest challenge was the lathe I've presently got, a 10" X 30" Colchester Bantam, circa 1920/1930, which I bought in UK in 1980, and after a quick glance to see if anything was missing, had it shipped out to OZ with my belongings when I emigrated there in 1981.
Boy, was that a lathe from someone's wild imagination.
Admitted it cost me only one hundred pounds stirling in 1980, which was a weeks wages for a tradesman then, but to say that it was usable was a stretch of the imagination that defied description.
The worst defect was the bed, which had .013" wear in it from the middle to the chuck, which made the saddle sloppy and unable to be adjusted.
So I made a planer device that went onto the unworn part of the bed slideways and hand planed .013" off the bedways, that is three raised Vee slides and two flat slides, finishing off by scraping the lot to fit.
It took about a month of evenings and weekends to do but cost nix, compared to what it would have cost to have it ground.
Most people would have shied away from even touching a piece of machinery unless it had a warranty and service facilities, which is probably just as well as you can end up with a costly boat anchor if you don't know machinery.
You have to weigh up what your time is worth.
If you are working for yourself and every hour is money, then it is daft to even think about re-doing a piece of machinery, just too many hours for the cost, when you could buy new.
It's different when you do it for the love of handling the metal as we did years ago and have it for your personal use.
The situation in OZ for seconhand machinery is pretty poor, compared to the sheer volume of machines offered on Ebay USA.
If I was after a Bridgeport in OZ, I would expect to pay about A$4000 for a vee belt drive head, without feed motors, DRO or coolant, and no tooling at all, and that is if you can find one, age immaterial.
Now try to find a lathe under A$1000 for the South Bend type, belt driven, no Q/C screwcutting, and tooling non existant, I know, I've bid on a few over the years, and it gets worse for the 20 year old Taiwanese models with a geared head, hardened bed and all the tooling.
There is a line in the dirt that you cross at your peril, and that is if you are in business for serious money, dont buy old and cheap.
The hours you waste catering for a clapped out piece of yesterdays magic, which even if it is still in good condition cannot match todays wonders, CNC or not.
I would go so far as to say that machinery designed and made today is not meant to last for a hundred years or more, which is just as well if you want to be competitive.
Ian.

my main plan if i purchase these are to split them up to begin with. for main purchase reason is i dont have alot of $$ to go out and buy the best around. and my space isnt to limited but it is to an extent. my material i work with is 90% aluminum 10% brass. And plan at a later time to possibly cnc both machines. I dont mind buying 2nd hand but sometimes u get what you pay for.

You're right, you get what you pay for mostly.
20 years or more ago the the Taiwanese terror was the byword for the lathes that nowadays are the standard lathe on Ebay.
They must have come a long way down the road of reliability, or was it just a case of "foreign must be junk"?
I always admired the completeness of the packages, 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck with fixed and traveling steadies, QC screwcutting gearbox as standard and coolant too, and a hardened bed.
One thing I have noticed about the lathes from foreign parts and that is even when they have quick change screwcutting gearboxes attached, they run the lot on one leadscrew/feed shaft.
If the leadscrew is actually driving the saddle for feed purposes then this is a bum design as you soon get a worn leadscrew just where you use it most, which doesn't do much for any screw cutting pitch accuracy.
To overcome this problem some lathes have a keyway down the leadscrew that drives the gears in the apron and leaves the l/s for threading only.
The more expensive lathes from the foreign market have a feed shaft under the leadscrew and this puts them apart fom the others price wise also, something like A$2500 as opposed to A$1500 for the single shafted models.
Still, at the end of the day, a lathe is a lathe no matter if it lacks all the bells and whistles.
Ian.

I know many times over i go talk with my buddy atthe machine shop and just wish i could have a small fraction of the items they have in there. and have been told any machine there is avalible for my use but our schedules never seem to allow me to get there. I did have a very small 7x10 a while back..all be it did what i needed at the time. It struggled alot when i went to turning larger items. and right now the largest OD i belive i will be turning is about 5" aluminum. tolerance isnt 100% critical in what items I am turning but i also dont want a machine thats gonna be real sloppy or become real sloppy not long after being new either.
So now i am hoping that 1 of these 2 machines will do all i need for the next couple years or so until i can gain access to larger place for bigger machines.

As I mentioned in the pm mcraig79, I added some links so you can see my setup and modifications.

I have added the DRO and the Belt Drive first. Both I would consider excellent improvements. You gain 1800 rpm on speed from the belt setup from LittleMachineShop.com and it is a direct bolt on.

G0516
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/Milling%20Machine/DSC02065.jpg

DRO panel ( It is glaring because it comes with a dust cover that can stay on the unit during use.)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/Milling%20Machine/DSC02033.jpg

LMS Belt Drive
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/Milling%20Machine/DSC02067.jpg

Left Side mill Base
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/Milling%20Machine/DSC02058.jpg

Gear and Belt Bay
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/Milling%20Machine/DSC02059.jpg

closeup of machine label
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/Milling%20Machine/DSC02062.jpg

One thing I've seen recommended for the combo machine mentioned is to get the separate base and split it up. Then use the mill mounting point on the lathe bed and mounting a homemade taper attachment.

Hi all, having a good lookl at the mill combo in post #14, I would very much doubt that you can do any serious milling with it.
This is only my opinion as a fitter & turner from 40 years + , but one thing I do know and that is if you stick a cutter into metal it's going to react by attempting to push the column one way or another.
It doesn't matter what you've got up the column to hold cutters or traverse them, if the base connection is weak it'll rock.
On the other hand if anyone has used this set-up and found it to be adequate for the type of milling you do, then I would say no problem go for it.
I judge it by what I know of machinery, but if I was going to buy it without having tried it out or even seen what it can do, it's a bit like buying a car from a photo in an advert.
That is why I would always advocate buying a used item, usually at half the price, and if it doesn't come up to your needs it can be sold on at the same price you bought it for.
With used machinery it's a buyers market, and the power of your dollar puts you in a commanding position, that is if the item isn't worn out or damaged then you'll have to know what you're looking at.
Even then, a worn out or damaged item can be rebuilt for just the cost of the parts, if you know machinery and can DIY.
The problem for newbies to machining is to find out the hard way what makes a machine good, bad or just too dam# useless for serious work.
A lot of newcomers, on a tight budget and trying to justify a big boy's toy, are wowed by the glitter of hammertone paintwork and shiny fiddly bits, and assume that the "thing" will perform on the night, and so are put off by a used machine, even with a good pedigree, that looks well used and lacks the lustre.
Ian.

No one ever claimed that this combo was a Bridgeport or a Cinncinatti Mill.
lol

You don't happen to have a used machine for sale do you?

If Only I had more room I would have a bigger machine. but so far it has done all I can ask of it.

Evening all, Don't forget what ole Rabbie Burrrrrrns use to say, "Be it ever so humble, there's no place like home".
How often I've thought about those words, during my worldly wanderings, same applies to machinery, no matter how old or archaic it may be, with a bit of imagination you can sh##t miracles.
But to look on the bright side, I've just bid on and got a Hafco AL 150, 6" swing X 15" between centres lathe on Ebay.
The bidding hung around at A$350 for a day or two and I just had to have a go at A$450, and finally got it at A$405, plus whatever it takes to courier it from New South Wales to Victoria.
It's pretty basic but a friend of mine with a welding business and large 24" swing lathes will be given first refusal.
He really needs a small lathe to do the odds and ends jobs that crop up, mums the word, don't say anything, I'm going to surprise him.
On the other hand it might turn out to be the start of me having a go at CNC if he doesn't want it, we'll see.
I've already got a lathe but this was too good to let go.
The attached photo is my current lathe, a 1920/30 Colchester Bantam, 10" swing X 30" between centres.
Ian.

With used machinery it's a buyers market, and the power of your dollar puts you in a commanding position, that is if the item isn't worn out or damaged then you'll have to know what you're looking at.
Even then, a worn out or damaged item can be rebuilt for just the cost of the parts, if you know machinery and can DIY.
The problem for newbies to machining is to find out the hard way what makes a machine good, bad or just too dam# useless for serious work.
A lot of newcomers, on a tight budget and trying to justify a big boy's toy, are wowed by the glitter of hammertone paintwork and shiny fiddly bits, and assume that the "thing" will perform on the night, and so are put off by a used machine, even with a good pedigree, that looks well used and lacks the lustre.
Ian.
Like I said its getting harder to find a usable machine, worn is one thing, usable is another ball game. I just attended an auction this weekend(one of those rare old iron mine fields) I picked up a very used atlas mill(MF), it is somewhat in demand so there is that market force, and at least locally any table top machine fetchs higher then normal dollars. In talking one of the persons I was bidding against was using the same philosphy, not that I disagree but he was way way out his league, he expected that the rather significant investment would get him going once he got home. The machine was missing all the motor mounting(i have a contribed one to put on at home), the arbor, and the drawbar. He seemed to think that he was going to be able to take it home and just buy a couple cutters and away he goes. For the money I paid and will have to invest in the machine he could have bought a go516, ready to go and no blind tightening of gibs, pounding of tapered pins the wrong way, and trying to figure out how to make back-gear disengage. Afterwards the same said person was bidding on a even older horz non-name machine that again was missing most of the arbor and I think had a jarno taper although I really did not look that close. At anyrate the total layout for a machine unseen, unused, missing parts was $850, granted I "wanted" it, still the other guy just thought it would work for him without regard to the fact you cannot get many of the parts it needs. I have an arbor at home, that will be about $200 on the open market for a new one, used maybe less. I have motor mounting, that is almost an unkown, I have the driving dog, drawbar and a few other minor missing parts, I would bet that I will have well over $1200 into it when done.

In regards to the GO516 I have run both pieces of equipemnt, the lathe is a shinning star(better then my 9x20) the mill is just OK, it makes a good drill press good for light milling its no BP but usable non the less. Also one thing with a new machine is you do get a warranty, old iron is almost always welll proven and reliable but even they still break.


Ian thats a beautiful lathe, any machine that uses a drip feed is a keeper.

chris

Lo In2, it wasn't always that way.
When these machines were made they were pretty basic, as in so basic the leadscrew half nut, note the singular, is just a half nut that pressed down onto the leadscrew and the down pressure is resisted by the leadscrew passing through a hole in the apron casting and just riding on it.
When I got the lathe, 1980, it had been severely mauled, that is it had the half nut welded up out of position so that it could not be used.
The banjo was cracked and welded out of engagement so that although I had a full set of screwcutting gears they were unusable.
There was .013" wear in the bed from the middle of the bed to the chuck end.
Add to this that it had originally been in a shop that had been bombed in the war, and was dug out of the rubble for scrap iron, but got tacked together and used like this, untill the chap I bought it from found it in a scrap metal dealers yard about to be broken up.
The original drive mechanism was by overhead flat belt drive and I had to design and fabricate a 3 step flat pulley system to get it to go.
I added an electric clutch from a car airconditioner and this enabled me to keep the motor running while starting and stopping frequently.
I paid 75 pounds back in 1980, almost a weeks wages for a tradesman then, and shipped it to OZ.
It took a lot of work, all manual, to get it to run again, but it was worth it.
I can honestly say that it will turn parallel at 6 " out from the chuck, which means when you bore you don't get that tight back or front.
There's still a lot of extra work to do to make it perform as I want it to, but for now it's a goer while I sort my workshop out.
I'm attaching a photo of a tool I made to hand "machine" the bed Vees and flats, and get rid of the wear, so if you or anyone else are tempted to rework an old machine, this is how I did it.
The only cost outlay, apart from the initial cost of the machine, was for a new 6" Chinese made 3 jaw chuck and an 8" Pratt Burnard 4 jaw chuck.
Ian.

Bravo!
Thats a great idea, I wonder if that sort of setup would work on a cross slide, on machine maching of a dovetail. Did you need to do alot scrapping after wards or were you close enough?
Also I have one question about your jig, as its not apparent in the picture, did you tighten that assmebly laterally between the ways, a cam follower or eccentric etc or did it just sit there with down pressure?


I see you still think my way thoughI saved a this from a scraper~ I have a B&S #00 hand feed wire screw machine(turret lathe), flat belts, its got a cutoff cross slide from a another machine, and its got a Bas**** B&S #18 taper for the collets, although I have all the collets I could think I would ever need. Orginal turret with 6 posts and several of the swing cutters plus a few other assorted.I have to buy an inverter for to make it work but I could not see parting with it, then again I could not see parting with any of my machines esp not the atlas's. If anything its a conversation piece, although not even most of my friends into machining know what it is, but they don't know what a shaper is either so....


chris

Hi Chris, to answer your question on adjustment, it was a case of make it simple and use what was available, as at that time, 1982 when I started to work on the rebuild, the only motorised tools were an angle grinder, electric hand drill and a bench grinder, oh, and an arc welder.

So it was a bit of a head scratch to see what could be done.
If you look at the average centre lathe of today, you'll see that they follow more or less the same design as far as the layout of the bedways are concerned.
They either have two raised Vees and two flats on the bed top, one Vee and a flat for the carriage and a Vee and a flat for the tailstock.
The other type has three raised Vees and one flat on top, which means the carriage rides on two Vees, the outermost, and the tailstock is on the third Vee and the flat, the inner most ones.
There are other bed types such as flat top with dovetail sides and either a gap down the centre of the bed for the tailstock to ride in, or just plain flat top with the carriage and tailstock sharing the same slides, and another as in the Myford with two rectangular flats, very old fashioned and dating back to the beginning of time.

The most important thing was, that when the lathe bed was originally machined, the slideways were all done together, which resulted in some original machining that was not used for the carriage or tailstock to ride on.
These surfaces, found to be true to each other by measurement and comparison, were on the outsides and insides of the bed ways, and between the Raised Vees and the Vee and the flat.
A long story short, the "planer jig" has 4 ball bearings mounted so as to be on a horizontal plane for riding on and between either side of the two raised Vees, and 4 more ballraces on the sides for longitudinal guidence.
The adjustment on the sides was effected by having Allen cap screws with washers either side to hold the bearings to the steel plate, and as the cap screws were a slack fit in the bores, about .010" clear, enabled me to tap the bearings on the out side with a piece of copper to get a tight fit against the inside and outside of the far bed way, not the centre gap, if you look at the 1st and 2nd photo carefully.
The whole lot was fabricated from mild steel plate, and made to measure on the job, but it did the job remarkably well, that is, it remove .013" from the slideways from the centre down to the tailstock end as well as just skimming the slideways to clean up at the chuck end.

I started at the chuck end by dragging the tool backwards to the centre when it started to dig into the unworn sections, and then the angle tool holder on top was repositioned to the other side of the plate for a push action to the tailstock end, and here the "planing" became really serious.
The cut depth was about .002" at most, and as the carbide tipped tool was a bit pointy with a small radius, this resulted initially in making long parallel grooves along the slideways, similar to a ploughed field.
The angle of the slides was set from the unworn end faces with a dial indicator on the small top slide, and the depth of cut was set by tapping the tool down for each layer of metal removal.
I held the Planer tool down by hand pressure while pushing forward for each cut, and as only .001" was removed with the point, it didn't try to ride up onto the metal.
The final cut was made with the point of the tool having a pronounced radius to spread the cut as the slide was inched down the faces.
The final check was made by setting the dial indicator to tha beginning of the slideway faces, and running the planer tool the full length to check if a step was apparent on the bed faces between the beginning and the end.
Needless to say the faces now practically dead true were tidied up with a scraper, taking care not to create hollows, but just evenly flatting the surfaces.
Last chore was the carriage which had to be fitted to the bed so as to render the crosslide vees DEAD SQUARE to the bed, effected by swinging a dial indicator on an arm in the lathe spindle across the Crosslide vees as the scraping progressed.

To date I haven't done the crosslide Vees, but when I do I'll make a planer tool with a long piece of flat steel bar, clamped to the top of the carriage crosslide Vees, and have a slide on it to "machine the Vee sides and the Vee bottom faces both sides.
At the same time I'm going to make a new long crosslide, as with a lot of lathes of the period the crosslides were short affairs with the length of the slides practically the same as the width.
This is not good for stability as the toolpost, with its variety of turrning, parting and boring tools, is stuck up in the air, on a flimsy compound slide, that exerts tremendous side lifting pressure on the short slide Vees.
One of the main reasons people have trouble parting off is due to the compound slide moving about and allowing the tool to dig in.
The other, is of course a loose spindle in a bronze bearing, the curse of the working class, that should have died a natural death when angular contact and tapered roller bearings became the preferred method for supporting loads in headstocks and spindles general.

" A hand feed wire screw machine", flat belt drive, yeah, I know what you mean, I've got one of those too, a 1-1/4" Taylor widow maker, all manual, with a collet closer strong enough to bring tears to the eyes of Superman.
I got it when I set up in business in '96, last century, for A$150, from another mate, to do some work that was just too damm much for the tool range on a centre lathe.
I have never been so amazed to see a 1" wide HSS form tool plunge into a 1-1/4" bar of steel at 300rpm,without a chatter or kickback, and to be able to part off without so much as a hiss from the upside down back mounted parting tool.
I guess it has a lot to do with the length of the crosslide ratio to it's width, something like 7:1 if My memory seves me right.

One of the things about those old capstan lathes was they were so cheap to tool up, and if you were using HSS tooling then it was dirt cheap.
Most of my job runs rarely amounted to more than 500 to 1000 lots which was enough to do manually, for me mostly in the middle of the night.
I fitted a 3HP 1 PH motor to it and used an electric clutch from a car's airconditioner so's I could stop and start it without burning out the motor.

About the inverter, I recently, last month that is, made one using a 2HP 3PH motor, and the usual variety of capacitors, to a design talked about on the website "Andy's Place", to produce 3PH from 1PH for my Bridgeport mill.
It worked well, started and ran the spindle motor of the B'port OK.
Well long story again short, I sold the B'port to a mate of mine, and bought another mill, an Ajax Turret Mill, very similar to tha B'port, on Ebay for the same price, but the only trouble was the head motor is 3HP with a feed motor of 1HP and a coolant motor as well, so I now needed a 5HP 3 ph motor to make an inverter to drive it, and they're very hard to find for some reason.
In the end I lashed out and bought a shop bought model, with all the bells and whistles etc.
Ian.

Hi, here's a photo of the Capstan...Ian

Nice to see your turret is used, mine has alot hopes, but as of yet it only get exercised on ocasion to keep it free and now doubles as my oil storage area. I have a book on the automatic ones and they use similiar tooling but I have to figure out some of the finer details of making some of the parts i want to. I would like at some point set it up to make model bolts in the #5 range as they are hard to come buy in certain lengths. I have seen pictures of the endmill style tool used to form, wereas its hollow and mounted in the turret, I have never actually seen one in person nor for sale at least knowing what I am looking for. The collet closer is a dream on mine, and grabs like a bear at a picinic, I think it has tapered rollers they could be babbited bronze, although honestly I don't know, I ran across a brouchure somewhere on the web on day and it dated to around 1910 so I suppose thats a touch early for rollers. Its got a 2 HP motor with a 2 1/2 belt the last person that used it made alot of smallish brass parts, and actuall went through it, aside from sitting in a garage and mybasement should be fine At first I was told it was a Hardinge, but I had suspected that since it had the B&S taper, and just did not look like a Hardinge. The person that had last painted it filled in the relief were the pat. dates and makers mark were. Once I found that I was both happy and somewhat disheartened.

does yours have a quick acting cross slide or is it a crank?

Back on topic,

Have you made a decision what you are getting Mcraig? And thanks for the Hydraulics help in PMs.

Hi in2, if you're contemplating making #5 bolts, you'll need a Coventry type die head, the type that opens when it gets to the thread end and has 4 chasers in it.
Probably the 1/2" size, cost anything around A$100 to A$250 on Ebay, then there's a set of chasers.
I wouldn't set up for a part run less than about 200, just can't get the money back for the hours spent setting and cutting.
You'll also need a small roller box tool to cut the bar down to the diam of the bolt thread size.
Better than a hollow mill cutter, as the hollow mill is only good for a number of parts and is a b###gger to hold tolerence, and needs a T&C grinder to sharpen them, whereas the roller box tool is infinitely adjustable and uses conventional HSS or Carbide square tool bits with the end ground in the most peculiar way..
The crosslide on mine has a handwheel with a lead on the 2 start thread of about 1-1/2", so it's pretty rapid in crosslide travel.
I fitted an electric clutch too, so's I can stop and start without stopping the 3HP single phase motor.
The head bearings are Timken taper roller, and they can run fast without getting hot or moving about.
If you want a job for the turret, how about making stud sets for milling, the type that you get in the clamp and bolt sets, but just the studs.
That is double ended 1/2" or 5/8" type, probably UNC for your neck of the woods.
You could sell them on Ebay as a set of 4 per size going from a !.5" length for a vice or dividing head to 10" or more for holding work down.
For that sort of thing the real money is made on Tee nuts, and Tee bolts as the plain studs are easy to make with just hand stocks and dies by anyone when the need arises.
The other easy money maker is bottle jacks and packers for supporting clamps when setting up largish jobs.
The jacks are just round pieces of steel bar with a tapped hole and the other end counterbored to take a packing riser, same diameter but different lengths, with a spigot on it, to extend the length, and having a short screw with a knurled head.
I might have a go at that myself, as soon as I've got my mill fixed, the cutter grinder built, the power hacksaw remade, the lathe reworked, the spark eroder made,and fit the motor on the bandsaw, there's more but I don't think I'll have enough time this century.
Ian.

combo is a good idea but not perfect one. if you want really entry level of learning and then using this for a little bit or whenever time allows you then combo could be suitable for you, but it is not a very practical combination for longer run, you might loose too much time in setups in combo, where as if you have two machines you can save time and they also handle the job well.
there is no comparison of a combo with two separate machines, separate machine are more reliable more user friendly and more bang for the buck.
if space allows you, go for separate machines and if for any reason you want to get rid of one of them it will be easier to do so too.
At the end it is my experienced opinion only.
Goodluck.

Hi in2, if you're contemplating making #5 bolts, you'll need a Coventry type die head, the type that opens when it gets to the thread end and has 4 chasers in it.
Probably the 1/2" size, cost anything around A$100 to A$250 on Ebay, then there's a set of chasers.
I wouldn't set up for a part run less than about 200, just can't get the money back for the hours spent setting and cutting.
You'll also need a small roller box tool to cut the bar down to the diam of the bolt thread size.
Better than a hollow mill cutter, as the hollow mill is only good for a number of parts and is a b###gger to hold tolerence, and needs a T&C grinder to sharpen them, whereas the roller box tool is infinitely adjustable and uses conventional HSS or Carbide square tool bits with the end ground in the most peculiar way..
The crosslide on mine has a handwheel with a lead on the 2 start thread of about 1-1/2", so it's pretty rapid in crosslide travel.
I fitted an electric clutch too, so's I can stop and start without stopping the 3HP single phase motor.
The head bearings are Timken taper roller, and they can run fast without getting hot or moving about.
If you want a job for the turret, how about making stud sets for milling, the type that you get in the clamp and bolt sets, but just the studs.
That is double ended 1/2" or 5/8" type, probably UNC for your neck of the woods.
You could sell them on Ebay as a set of 4 per size going from a !.5" length for a vice or dividing head to 10" or more for holding work down.
For that sort of thing the real money is made on Tee nuts, and Tee bolts as the plain studs are easy to make with just hand stocks and dies by anyone when the need arises.
The other easy money maker is bottle jacks and packers for supporting clamps when setting up largish jobs.
The jacks are just round pieces of steel bar with a tapped hole and the other end counterbored to take a packing riser, same diameter but different lengths, with a spigot on it, to extend the length, and having a short screw with a knurled head.
I might have a go at that myself, as soon as I've got my mill fixed, the cutter grinder built, the power hacksaw remade, the lathe reworked, the spark eroder made,and fit the motor on the bandsaw, there's more but I don't think I'll have enough time this century.
Ian.

Yeah I have the roller box tools, I just have never seen the mill tools yet, but that would explain why if they are that hard to use. I never thought about the studs thats a good idea, I would have to get a geo-metric head yes I know, the problem is they are usally worth more then I paid for the lathe and I don't have it even close to running at home, although the person I purchased it from used it alot until it was replaced by a cnc lathe were I ran it on occasion for him. The cross slide(quick acting handle style) is contribed but should work untill I make for find something different, I would plan on running several hundred parts, probably put the wife on it while I work on other things. I also thought about devising a air clyinder and some limit switchs for semi automatic running. I was planning on putting a drive on it, that way I can stop fairly quickly, without three phase so that would make it easy run that off the PLC also. I would have to figure a way to index, I suppose that would not be impossible but it would take some time. Its not a priority but in the same tolken its a nice machine and very usable like I said its only drawback is that the collets are B&S and a real bear to find, although I have a supply that could last a long time.

Speaking of die heads, I see from time to time in the shank size I need a tangental die head is there a benfit to these or are they just a deifferent take on the same idea? I can get these cheaper sometimes, but I am not sure about tooling and thoughts?

Chris

I am looking at the G4000 and the G0516 also. Can either of these be made into CNC machines? I am new to this and want to make parts that look similar to the enclosed photo. I am also looking at the Microlux 7 x 14 for this operation with LMS milling attachment. Any opinions and guidance will be appreciated.

One thing I've seen recommended for the combo machine mentioned is to get the separate base and split it up. Then use the mill mounting point on the lathe bed and mounting a homemade taper attachment.


Where did you see this done at? That sounds like a good idea for that mounting point.


HandleWanker and In2steam, While the lathe you have is cool and what you have said is great for ideas, can we please keep this on topic and maybe take it to PMs or start a new thread with it.
;)

Hi artisan, those parts look like wash basin taps, what kind of volume are you thinking of making?
One thing is for sure, you won't be forming those complex curves with either of the above lathes unless they were controlled by CNC.
They wouldn't handle form tools for plunging cuts like a capstan, being a bit light on the motor and slideways, a hydraulic copy attachment, if available, would form them.

In2, gotta get off this subject, but to answer your question, the tangential die heads are a lot dearer as far as I've seen and not so plentifull, whereas the Coventry die heads and dies are widely used. Got both types.
Ian.

I am looking at the G4000 and the G0516 also. Can either of these be made into CNC machines? I am new to this and want to make parts that look similar to the enclosed photo. I am also looking at the Microlux 7 x 14 for this operation with LMS milling attachment. Any opinions and guidance will be appreciated.

Before we jump to conclusions here ...

What sizes are these and do you have a drawing perhaps?

I am looking at the G4000 and the G0516 also. Can either of these be made into CNC machines? I am new to this and want to make parts that look similar to the enclosed photo. I am also looking at the Microlux 7 x 14 for this operation with LMS milling attachment. Any opinions and guidance will be appreciated.

Artisan,

Several people have already cnc'd their G4000 machines. At the moment at least three people are currently working on cnc conversions on this forum. The G4000 has the disadvantage of a screw on chuck which some people (who apparently don't have 9x19s or 9x20s) find problematic. However, I have not heard anything negative in that regard from people who have done prior conversions.

John Howell's
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26530
Mine
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37656
Cutmore's
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33257

Alan

I don't get why screw on chucks are so disliked they were that way for well over a century, my 9x19(20) has one not that I have dismounted it yet but it has given me good service in both directions, I don't go running it in revererse with any kind of pressure though, the manual even states that its needed in certain applications for threading.
Artisian,
I would be the first one to say though if I was CNC'ing the 9x20 it would not be my first choice, in fact most of the smaller 9 series lathes are not really great at it, but they are capable. The part you are looking to make looks more cast and ground then machined what exactly is it?

Ian thanks for the advice, a head will have to wait, I just bought another lathe today, a logan 9" model 1400, and another old drill press, so I have even more projects to work on....

chris

Hi 1n2, the screw on chuck will screw off if you run in reverse while cutting, like upside down front toolpost work in parting off, also if you abruptly stop while running forward at top speed, by hitting the reverse briefly, (not recommended for the average lathe), but some lathes were designed to be braked by hitting the reverse mode quickly.
This didn't apply to the old lathes, (most of them), as they were overhead belt driven and didn't reverse, however some of them had their own motors and a foot brake, and it was possible to screw the chuck off by stamping on the brake.
That's just some things I hate about older lathes, screw on chucks, bronze head bearings and screwcutting hand levers on the right hand side with carriage handwheels on the left, (makes halfnut disengaging a crosshand affair).
I see that the majority of the Chinese, Taiwanese and Indian type lathes have only switches to start up, no seperate feed shaft, carriage handwheels on the left side of the apron, belt drive with back gear headstocks and no gap beds, not very condusive to the ideal lathe but cheap.
You soon outgrow these "advantages" of lower prices but don't have an upgrade possibility as you progress.
Ian.

Oh no doubt it will, but at the same time I ran a few machines that date to the 70's and 80's(maybe older) that had screw on chucks, they were toolroom lathes. Those had locks on the spindle, but they still screwed on, like I said you can run them in reverse just don't use alot of pressure, I saw someone break a tool off and ruin there part when they neglected to tighten the chuck completely, and stopped with the foot break, if they had not had the post right next to the work piece(which turned into a carbide break) it would have gone rolling across the room at me!

On my logan its going to be pretty hard to plug, the grizzly is a little to easy but I clutch before hitting the switch. Old habits die hard, although I did not run a lathes all that much unitll to my purchases at home I still grab for the clutch lever on the carriage thats not there.

With cheap comes the ablity to move into ones basment with cutting a hole into the side of ones flat also.....

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth, We got one of the grizzly combo lathe/mills on a sale deal. I gather the shop got it more to keep my fingers off the other lathes in the shop, but something You'll HAVE HAVE HAVE to is to clean and tune it, before using it. I personally sometimes find it useful to be able to cross drill chucked parts (like Camshaft Journals). It's also handy to have it so close to m bench that all I do is turn my chair and there is both tools. But like I say you'll need to do things like I totally cleaned off the Fish oil and fish scales that came on the machine. Also I ran the lead screws in with Bon-Ami to get the lead screws to run smoothly and Waxed all the ways. You'll also need to bore the chuck to true it up!