You are right. That does piss me off! Thuggery, especially under color of authority is reprehensible.

I've heard stories like this before, usually set in the South Eastern U.S. or Mexico. That such thing could still exist flabbergasts me! Especially in the area your speaking of.

These are criminal acts as well as violation of basic Constitutional and human rights! This is the sort of thing that the FBI would just drop their cookies to bust up! You should look into this quietly and at some distance from the target zone.

If these were "local" cops the state level may be interested in it, if not then the Feds. Remember the Rodney King deal? After state took their shot the feds took over and did them in.

No kidding, no excuse for it!

I don’t have time to respond often (and I hate to fill up mail boxes with too many of my long posts) but liberal versus conservative thinking intrigues me. I’ve probably posted on the topic a dozen times but always in different forums. I find studying individual thinking is more fun than physics. Evidence suggests there are two kinds of liberals and we make a big mistake if we lump them into a single bucket. It seems useful to imagine a long line with systematic thinking on the right and empathetic thinking on the left. The extreme on the systematic side is autism. There is a rarer but symmetrically opposite syndrome on the empathetic side; it’s called Williams Syndrome. (Think about it as dog-like capability to read faces and emotion but with verbal skills. Often Williams Syndrome is connected with retardation but it is likely two independent mental development disorders.) Although there are always exceptions to stereotypes, using them is a way to address patterns. Stereotypically people whose thinking mode is centered on the empathetic side will be in careers like music, acting, preaching and politics. The hard science type people most commonly are systematic thinkers. One style of thinking is not better or worse than the other, as each style can address some aspects of living better than the other. It would be ideal if we could all vary our thinking style to suit the problem but most of us are not that flexible. Even being centered is not that much better than being on the sides. A good primary care provider MD will have one foot on each side; a bit of good bedside manner and enough cause and effect science to allow for suitable referrals but only when needed. However, being in the middle is not better than being on the sides, good jazz, flu shots and physics are equally valuable.

I offered that bit of background philosophy because I think it is important to understanding the conservative /liberal split. It’s pretty each to say the liberals are on the empathic side and the conservatives are on the systematic side, and for the most part that is true. But there is an awfully lot of liberals on the systematic side and they represent the most interesting examples. These are thinkers that are not saying things to make you feel good. They are cause and effect thinkers that have sat down and enumerated the characteristics of the problem and then proposed a system solution. Getting them mixed up with the empathetic-liberals does a disservice to their contribution. The empathetic-liberal is looking for balance and consensus. That in fact is the core problem with CNN. The staff is empathetic-liberals and everything must be argued from both sides even if it seems that one side’s argument is 95% certain and the other’s is gibberish. Systematic-liberals typically don’t need fair and balanced arguments. They sort out a problem come to some conclusion and argue it. How often do we see threads railing against XY because she want to dictates a solution and “we are all smart enough to figure it out for our self.” That is a common type opposition for systematic-liberals to encounter, and to a large extent it may describe why Al Gore is so opposed. However, I cut them no slack, they are supposed to be deep enough to anticipate things like that and present there positions to avoid the problem.

I expect that few emphatic-liberals take up Computer Numerical Control for a hobby. Except for the fact that musicians use computers to weave their sounds, and preachers and politicians use the internet to spread their words, computer analysis, math and machine control are exactly what empathetic - liberals don’t like. As such I expect there are very few of them on this board. But we do have some of the systematic-liberals and they clearly are the most dangerous type. They drive change. I also expect that many age 20 or 30 something systematic-conservatives will become age 50 and 60 something systematic-liberals. The conservative end of the scale is focused on good ‘sound bite’ solutions. As people grow more experienced some will conclude that ‘sound bite’ solutions failed and they evolve to deeper and more complete understanding of the solution process. That evolution makes systematic-liberals out of systematic-conservatives and I think it is the most interesting process to study.

Note that I did not describe empathetic-conservatives. I’ll leave that as a self study topic, but if you think through that category you may find it illuminating.

In earlier posts I argued that CNCzone is a good place to hold a discussion on nuclear and other alternate energy approaches. I made that point because I feel the solution must be defined by argument between the systematic -conservative and the systematic-liberal populations. There will never be consensus only solutions with acceptable cost and risk and that balance never seems to be considered by famous actresses.

Tom

jhowelb

The problem is that unless one has video of the action. all authorities forget about it. I know of people that have tried to push it and got nowhere. The police retaliated and made their lives a living hell. This one of the main reasons I left the area where I grew up. I couldn't walk down the street without some policeman giving me a hard time.

I live in California now and one of the cops from where I used to live came to work in a city close to here. This cop had a 'hobby' as he called it. He would pick up homeless and take them outside of town and beat them senseless. No amount of complaining to any authority would get any action until he beat some guy to death. Then it was covered up by the police and the district attorneys office with explanations that it was in self defense, the cop was given a glowing resume and he quit that force only to show up here. Within 3 years, 5 people have died in his custody. Each one listed as a regrettable accident...Only every death occurred in exactly the same way. A police car door was shut on the victim's head's and the scull of each was crushed.. It reminds me of the Texas Sheriff who proclaimed that a body which had multiple blows to the head was a suicide....??? Or the 200 plus convicted criminals from LA that had to be set free because one cop was discovered doing something illegal and decided that he was not going down alone. He blew the whistle publicly about the Rampart station planting evidence, giving false testimony in court, and threatening witnesses in each case. Where were all the so called honest cops. It seems that the thin blue line and the code of silence was working over time......

Police scare the hell out of me. When a cop pulls me over for something, it becomes a two way street, he doesn't know me, I could be a criminal...I don't know him, he could be a cop with an agenda. The difference being, I have no protection against a bad cop while he can do anything up to and including killing me or someone and the worst thing that would happen to him is a few extra pieces of paper work to fill out, then he is on to his next victim... Internal affairs is a major joke. Sort of like the churches first responce to pedophile priests.

Cops are not responsible for their actions, someone else always pay for their mistakes, honest cops become dishonest by not speaking up or become outcasts if they do speak up..sort of like the cops do to the private citizens. .

But we do have some of the
systematic-liberals and they clearly are the most dangerous type

10-4 on dangerous!

TomB....

If I understand you correctly, a liberal that does the same thing over and over and over, getting the same results while expecting the results to change is a perfectly sound philosophical and psychological process..... Such as XY believes in ???

jhowelb

The problem is that unless one has video of the action. all authorities forget about it. I know of people that have tried to push it and got nowhere. The police retaliated and made their lives a living hell. This one of the main reasons I left the area where I grew up. I couldn't walk down the street without some policeman giving me a hard time.. .

I find all this very troubling and completely at odds with everything I have experienced in my years in this field.

Fewer officers have disgraced their badges than priests have disgraced their vows.

If you will pursue this there will be a change, this much I know for fact!

jhowelb...

Not in my experience. I have tried twice to report a "bubba" cop and both times I ended up on the short end of the stick..... like I stated before, that is the reason that I moved away from my home state...constant reprisal for trying to get a bad cop straightened out, other cops came down on me..

Even Tom Sullivan, the ex-cop now radio talk show host, when discussing the Rodney King incident stated that on many occasions he knew of suspects that were driven into an ally way and came out sort of worse for wear or fell down a flight of stairs in a one story building yet, he, like most other police that I have known, did nothing about it. I asked Sullivan about it and got rebuffed.

Haven't you ever wondered how a prisoner in a single person holding cell 10 feet from the officer's in charge station could be beat to death and no one at the station knew anything about it or how another prisoner that was in custody can be raped with a broom handle, again in a single person cell and the policeman that is suspected of doing same was never brought up on charges but allowed to retire early at full pension...??

If the force you worked on was all upstanding, that is great. My experience has always been there is at least one bad apple and every other apple keeps mouth shut about it which, from my point of view, makes the other cops accomplices and participating in covering up. Sort of like when a gang member commits a crime and the other gang members keep quite about it when questioned by police..

My cop relatives even bragged about what they could get away with....

jhowelb...

Not in my experience. ...........


Your view saddens me, in order for this to be true humanity in it's entirety would have to be terribly corrupted all the way to it's core. Merchants would be paying "protection", children would not be safe going to or from or even while in the classroom. Folks wouldn't be safe in their homes at night. I would be as if the Mafioso were running the world. I cannot accept this view point. Good people in the community would rise up and eliminate this kind of problem.

My hope is that one day you may be able see things differently for your own happiness.

You may have seen this before, but worth mention anyway!

Global Warming or Global Governance

Global Warming or Global Governance

Interviews of climate scientists and biologists from numerous sources who explain, step by step, why Al Gore and the global warming alarmist...all » Interviews of climate scientists and biologists from numerous sources who explain, step by step, why Al Gore and the global warming alarmists are incorrect. In some cases, blatantly so. It also provides evidence that the global warming agenda is being funded with tens of billions of dollars as a mechanism to create global governance. Hear from congressmen, experts and even well-known news broadcasters how global governance puts global institutions that are not accountable to the American people in control of every aspect of our economy. The U.S. government is very close to making this a reality. Very close. Every American, every citizen of the world, needs to hear the other side of the global warming story.

Donna (and anyone else reading this),

This is probably going to p*ss off a few here!

I think your response to Mariss had a lot of valid points. I concluded that you are, basically, a good person and want the best for everyone. There are a few things that get in the way of anyone who is an idealist. One is reality!



The reality is, as you’ve pointed out, that any blanket description of people will have a few exceptions that someone will use to discredit that group. That is true if you use race, sex, national origin, religion, politics or any other criteria you can think up.


Democrat vs Republican and liberal vs conservative are not necessarily synonymous. There are many democrats that tend to be quite conservative and many republicans embrace some liberal concepts. In reality, from my point of view, we, as humanity, cover the whole spectrum from ultra liberal to die hard conservative. Some areas of that scale are more densely populated. And many of us tend to not fall in the same place on all subjects nor at all times.

Does my moving on that scale make me wishy/washy? Not at all. I may change my views based on new information and/or just my mood at the time. Everyone does. Some times I may change my views, or at least my stated view, based on a reaction to someone I view as an extremist.

Speaking of extremists, I have no use for them, or at least their extreme views. I will often take a stance that I do not embrace just to play the devil’s advocate and even the field. In other words, if you espouse a very extreme view (either liberal or conservative) you will often find yourself at odds with me. And there is always enough evidence (empirical or anecdotal) to make almost anything sound reasonable.

Any “plan” developed by a government body has flaws. Maybe, just any plan! There is a contingent of people who will use those flaws to exploit the plan for personal gain. There is a contingent who will want to scrap the plan because it doesn’t go far enough. With a bit of luck and a few good people, something will be developed that minimizes both these problems.

Donna, I think for the most part, you and I would agree. We want the best for our family and friends. Our final objectives are very similar. However, we have differences in what “best” is and how we should get there. Why can’t we, generically speaking, sit down face to face and find some ground where we can agree and work out a plan we can both embrace. Some solution that we can both support even though it is not what either of view as ideal. Something workable is better than nothing. And that’s what usually occurs when we are diametrically opposed and refuse to compromise. Is compromise better than nothing? ABSOLUTELY!!!!!



Not having a party on my voter registration prevents me from voting in either parties primaries. But it states political position pretty well. I guess it also fits with my religious view as an Agnostic.

Regards

Leon
.
.
.

Hi CNC_Programmer;
I applaud your open minded approach to the discussion. That is something that has seemed in short supply on this forum. I agree with the idea of thoughtfully considered dialog, our country was founded on it. I also like your idea of political independence. I mostly vote democrat but could switch if they had a viable candidate.
Take care,
xyzdonna

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

...my wife...


As an American, a husband and a father, I'm here to tell you that ANY cop that did that to my wife without killing me (or at least maiming me) would not do it again. Guaranteed.

When the very people that are supposed to protect me are turning against me, I have no issue with taking the matter in to my own hands.

I'm guessing you "fit the profile", as do I. I get pulled over rarely for no apparent reason, and while I will remain respectful as long as the officer respects me, I will not be intimidated. And I"m a very patient person, with excellent people finding skills. :)

BTW, I've taking up the habit of starting a voice recorder when I get pulled over, and not letting the officer know about it. Much easier to hide than a video camera.

That is something that has seemed in short supply on this forum.

No, it's in short supply on your posts.

I guess they [conservatives] think it's in their own best interests to keep as much of their money as possible. Yes conservatives are paranoid, they think all us liberals want to do is separate them from their booty.

Oh, congrats on making it into my sig.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

Interesting that those would be LIBERALS!

As an American, a husband and a father, I'm here to tell you that ANY cop that did that to my wife without killing me (or at least maiming me) would not do it again. Guaranteed.

When the very people that are supposed to protect me are turning against me, I have no issue with taking the matter in to my own hands.

<SNIP>

BTW, I've taking up the habit of starting a voice recorder when I get pulled over, and not letting the officer know about it. Much easier to hide than a video camera.

This sentiment is precisely why rampant police abuse can't exist for long nor on a wide spread scale. with in an armed public things would degenerate into open warfare. Government (even police) abuse is the real reason for the 2nd amendment, to make sure the people can defend themselves against a repressive or abusive government. The best reason I can think of to abolish gun control completely! After all, THEY have helicopter gunships and every kind of anti personnel device one can think of at their disposal.

Reduced to a slogan, "Live free or die!"

Your view saddens me, in order for this to be true humanity in it's entirety would have to be terribly corrupted all the way to it's core. Merchants would be paying "protection", children would not be safe going to or from or even while in the classroom. Folks wouldn't be safe in their homes at night. I would be as if the Mafioso were running the world. I cannot accept this view point. Good people in the community would rise up and eliminate this kind of problem.

My hope is that one day you may be able see things differently for your own happiness.

While at risk of sounding argumentative, the situations that you describe are real. Very few parents in my area let their kids walk to school. Most of them are driven by their parents or a neighbor to school because of the danger from the street gangs here. Children do not play in their front yards and very rarely do they play alone in their back yards. In the past week, there have been 4 deaths of young people, two were beat to death, two were shot. While that was going on, there have been several 4 or 5 on one beatings of school age kids where the inflicted damage was severe enough to warrant hospitalization. Lockers have been taken out of the schools for fear that weapons could be stored there. There is a suggestion that all backpacks be made of see-thru material so that the contents can be readily seen.

In the past week, there has been 5 home invasion occurrences where the residents were tied up, pistol whipped and money, valuables, and credit cards were taken. Six people were attacked and robbed while taking out the garbage!!!!??? Several car jackings have happened. Several innocent people were caught in the crossfire during a gang shootout. The police are looking for one shooter that has killed 3 people so far this month. It is figured that the gunman is after someone in particular and his recent targets were all mistaken for someone else.

As far as the people rising up..I don't think that would get very far. Remember the Kent State fiasco...the military was called in.. There have already been numerous 'town meetings' which always results in a lot of talk and no action. There have been some demonstrations which have been met with police in riot gear.

As far as my 'happiness' is concerned, with the exception of liberals in general who sort of fostered the rise in the criminal element and the dishonesty plus the slick PR of many police forces, I have been quite content with my life. One can be happy about many things in ones life and still get shafted by a few outside influences without painting the whole world black...

I have been homeless twice, being put there both times by liberal policies and politics. I have been beaten three times by the police and left were I fell, [on one occasion, the beating cop's partner told him to stop, I was the wrong person...which means these cops were out after someone..} Because these things have happened to me does not mean that I go around trying to take out a cop or mess with some liberal in a criminal way. That would be unethical.

At risk of really offending you, the words that you convey are very similar to what our Sheriff stated after three of his Deputies were discovered drunk while on duty, two of which were driving patrol cars. He also stated that a thorough investigation will soon follow, [sometime].

The Mexican government sent their Army in to Juarez to take down corrupt Police and drug gangs. Haven't heard how much success they have had but it shows that even that corrupt govt. won't tolerate that crap for long.

We do have a crisis looming in the MS-13 threat, which I suspect the Libs will bleed from their over sized hearts all over the place while they obstruct sanity with the ACLU !

Here ya go Wxyz, this will set your heart aglow!

A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.


Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.


America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.

Quote of the Day........"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." -- Barack Obama

I do find it ironic that the libs are always excited about the ACLU. This organization was originally chartered by communist/socialist people with the express intention to use America's laws against America in order to bring the US down. On one hand the Libs say they are for freedom and then, they push for laws, regulations, and programs that curtail freedom.

I believe one of the problems is the definition of freedom itself is where the misunderstanding lies.

While in college, my engineering class came up with a very telling and simple survey. This 2 question survey was devised because, at least at the college I attended, one class would picket or demonstrate against another class for one reason or another. In this case, the political science class would try and disrupt the engineering class citing their and their professor's distaste for anything creative that may be used by 'big business' or industry in general... I remember one placard that read 'Only the government should be in the business of industry..." which point out at least one socialist/communist in the group..

The survey asked 2 questions. The first question asked the pollee to define their political preference. 96 percent put down Democrat or Republican. The remaining 4 percent listed independent, moderate democrat or Republican, etc, etc. A few were really honest and listed Socialist or communist as their leanings.

The really telling part was the second question. In their own words, the recipient was asked to describe freedom and what it meant to them. 4000 copies were mimeographed, [engineers hadn't invented copy machines yet] and passed out or post on the public board. Out of 4000 surveys, 3,856 surveys were completed.

The results were that 96 percent of those listed as Democrats described freedom as "freedom from....." meaning that they were to be protected from 'whatever'. The whatever was anything from poverty, health problems, to safety, or protection from Republicans... It was usually list that the government be the entity that did the protecting.[The last, we felt, was odd in that the Republicans were the ones that would volunteer first to protect the democrats from harm whereas the Democrats that seek protection were the first to figure out a way to get out of any service..]

97 percent of those listing themselves as Republicans defined freedom as "freedom to......" By the examples, this meant the freedom to create, to build, to expand, in other words, the freedom to do things that helped both themselves and society to move forward and create a better life for all.

So, I believe that the fundamental difference in basic thinking is the root of the chasm between democrats and Republicans and this has only become more acute over the years as more and more radicals have added their voices and agendas to either side.

Even so, if all things were equal, I still wouldn't trust a Liberal....

Second verse, worse than the first!

www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html (http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html)

Taxes under Clinton 1999 ..............Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $8,400.... Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $14,000 ....Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $23,250....Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $16,800 ....Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 ....Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $38,750 ....Married making 125K - tax $31,250



Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates



It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

Now, Wxyz, this one will light your hair afire!!

Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.
I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at:
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
by the illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate
that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens
that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens
from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin
and mariju ana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total
cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances
back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million
Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States."
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
Why are we THAT stupid?

Rekd

I really don't know what causes such things to happen. I had an acquaintance that was just the opposite. Every time something would happen, he come out smelling like a rose, many times, he would turn a profit on a what would be a bad situation for anyone else. He was the type that could fall out of a 20 story building and land in a passing hay truck without getting a scratch and come up with a Hundred dollar bill clinched in his teeth.

I used to enjoy going night clubs, not to drink but to catch the dinner shows. It was enjoyable to see up and coming entertainers as they developed the craft. I also noticed that some very talented people sounded great in person, but when their talent was recorded, they came off completely different.

Anyway, I stopped going to these shows because inevitably, some yoyo would tap me on the shoulder and say, "Do you see that woman over there, what do you think of her...?" From that point on, no matter what I would say was wrong. The yoyo was just looking for trouble and I finally got tired of being in a fight 90 percent of the time and quit going. I think it is the same karma, for lack of a better word, that has police stopping for no apparent reason or because my hair is the wrong color or the tires on my car are round...

I have been stopped by the police walking down the street and checked out. I asked the policeman why he was stopping me. He said that I looked "out of place', whatever that means.

Friends have been with me when things like this happen and they are dumbfounded. One even asked if I hear a voice. I told him that I didn't, and why should I hear voices. He said that it should have been the voice of God saying that there is just something about me that He doesn't like.....

Yesterday, while driving, I was paced by a policeman. He drove behind me for awhile then pulled up along side and kept starring in the usual menacing cop way. He was so intent with his gaze in my direction that he had to slam his brakes on hard enough to screech the tires in order to keep from rear ending the car in front of him as traffic in his lane slowed down. My lane kept going and I felt for sure that the cop was going to catch up with me and inflict punishment for actions that could only have been embarrassing for him. He did catch up and followed me for another mile or two. Then, about the time that I thought he was going to pull me over, a motorist made an illegal turn in front of me and the cop pulled him over instead. I know damn well that if that cop had of rear-ended that car, the cop would have found some way to involve me in the mishap.....

You are probably sending subliminal (to you) visual signals that make folks think you're dragging your knuckles. Remember Sadsack in the comics? (and Gomer Pile) He always caught hell for nothing as well! LOL

You are probably sending subliminal (to you) visual signals that make folks think you're dragging your knuckles. Remember Sadsack in the comics? (and Gomer Pile) He always caught hell for nothing as well! LOL

Well, it sure causes a lot of wear and tear on the upholstery....;->

Ummm. teeth marks on the leather? As you try to smile at the people passing by? LOL

Bet it's rough on underwear as well!!

I was thinking that my glutious maximus sort tightens up during such occasions... Possibly leaving brown spots... ;->

Here ya go Wxyz, this will set your heart aglow!

A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.


Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.


America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.

Quote of the Day........"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." -- Barack Obama

Hi jhowelb;
"Post hoc ergo proctor hoc", Latin for "after this therefore because of this". The greatest fallacy in logic remember? Extensively employed by politicians, preachers, and statisticians in descending order of veracity.
Take care,
xyzdonna
PS: That's funny what Barack said. I just caught that after I had posted my reply. But you know after all the Bushisms, one little misstep from Barack shouldn't be much of an issue.

No, what that means is that you want to deny the truth but you can't because the PROOF is staring you in the face.
Therefore: Quote Latin, act smarter than you are and hope no one calls your bluff. Too bad, I just did! Your BUSTED!

Second verse, worse than the first!

www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html (http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html)

Taxes under Clinton 1999 ..............Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $8,400.... Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $14,000 ....Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $23,250....Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $16,800 ....Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 ....Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $38,750 ....Married making 125K - tax $31,250



Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates



It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

Hi jhowelb;
Now let's see you post the national deficit up there alongside those tax cuts and see how that correlates.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Zero sum gain? I thought you were smarter than that, I certainly am! Lower tax rate equals more productivity which brings in more revenue.

Eyes still not open?

$ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Put that in yer hopper and chew on it!

Zero sum gain? I thought you were smarter than that, I certainly am! Lower tax rate equals more productivity which brings in more revenue.

Eyes still not open?

$ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Put that in yer hopper and chew on it!

Hi jhowelb;
For a good article on the historical perspective of what has actually happened under the recent Republican and Democratic administrations perhaps you should peruse this:
http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman05302003.html
Take care,
xyzdonna

Prejudice is opinion without judgement. Voltaire

Right at the top of the front page.

"Americas best Political Newsletter"

And then the page titled "about us"


CounterPunch is the bi-weekly muckraking newsletter edited by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair. Twice a month we bring our readers the stories that the corporate press never prints. We aren't side-line journalists here at CounterPunch. Ours is muckraking with a radical attitude and nothing makes us happier than when CounterPunch readers write in to say how useful they've found our newsletter in their battles against the war machine, big business and the rapers of nature.

We're in our sixth year now and have exceptionally loyal readers, who have delighted in our irreverent and biting approach. Time and again they tell us they're sick of dull, predictable writing. They want fresh facts, a newsletter that they can enjoy rather than just endure--and we give it to them. Barbara Ehrenreich says, "CounterPunch makes me think. It makes me laugh. Above all it tells me things I didn't know."

Here at CounterPunch we have many friends and all the right enemies. And, guaranteed, you'll never see any of us on the pundit line up at MSNBC. We try to stay beyond the pale.

Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair

So now lets get this straight, you want to use an admitted political hatchet group who state their agenda right up front to prove a point? Why not use the Daily Kos?

Just how stupid do you think I am? If these people told me that the sun was shining I would go to the window to see for myself! This type of trash is what is poisoning your mind. Pure unadulterated crap!

Right at the top of the front page.



And then the page titled "about us"




So now lets get this straight, you want to use an admitted political hatchet group who state their agenda right up front to prove a point? Why not use the Daily Kos?

Just how stupid do you think I am? If these people told me that the sun was shining I would go to the window to see for myself! This type of trash is what is poisoning your mind. Pure unadulterated crap!

Hi jhowelb;
A few brief points from the article:
"Where have we seen this deranged fiscal strategy before? Remember Ronald Reagan and Supply Side Economics? In the early 1980s, Reagan promised the nation that if we lowered tax rates on the wealthy, the economy would grow so much the federal budget would be balanced "within three years, maybe even two."
George H.W. Bush called it "voodoo economics." His own Budget Director, David Stockman, called it a "Trojan horse," a scam intended really to funnel more money to the already rich.
The results, we now know, were a disaster. In 1982, the first full year after the tax cuts were enacted, the economy actually shrank 2.2%, the worst performance since the Great Depression. And the effect on the federal budget was catastrophic.
Is there anything to compare this to? When Bill Clinton took office he intentionally reversed the Supply Side formula, raising taxes on the wealthy and reducing them on the lowest wage earners.
Between 1992 and 2000, the U.S. economy produced the longest sustained economic expansion in U.S. history. It created more than 18 million new jobs, the highest level of job creation ever recorded. Inflation fell to 2.5% per year compared to the 4.7% average over the prior 12 years.
In selling his $1.6 trillion tax cut-half of which went to the wealthiest 1% of Americans-Bush promised in 2001 that it would produce 800,000 new jobs. In fact, the economy has lost 2.7 million jobs since Bush took office, again, the worst economic performance since the Great Depression.

Me: You can't argue with the facts they quote even though you may not like where they are coming from.
Take care,
xyzdonna

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it. Voltaire

I don't see anything other than deranged opinion, inflammatory hyperbole and outright lies!

Not unlike the crap that flows from your mouth. Unsubstantiated and just plain wrong. The Big Brother lie told often that pygmy minds like your buy it as the truth. If your thought processes had not already been conditioned to accept this drivel you would reject it.

"Where have we seen this deranged fiscal strategy before? Remember Ronald Reagan and Supply Side Economics? In the early 1980s, Reagan promised the nation that if we lowered tax rates on the wealthy, the economy would grow so much the federal budget would be balanced "within three years, maybe even two."The fact is that this spurred the greatest economic expansion we've seen. The author's unsubstantiated characterization of "deranged fiscal strategy" does not make it so.

George H.W. Bush called it "voodoo economics." His own Budget Director, David Stockman, called it a "Trojan horse," a scam intended really to funnel more money to the already rich.

Again unsubstantiated characterizations of "deranged fiscal strategy" do not make it so.

"The results, we now know, were a disaster. In 1982, the first full year after the tax cuts were enacted, the economy actually shrank 2.2%, the worst performance since the Great Depression. And the effect on the federal budget was catastrophic." Flagrant outright lie. I lived through this period so you can't foist this crap off on me. My wages went higher and I had a better quality of life than ever before. Right up to the point where the "liar in chief" took office and began chasing interns and getting our soldiers killed in Mogadishu.

"When Bill Clinton took office he intentionally reversed the Supply Side formula, raising taxes on the wealthy and reducing them on the lowest wage earners."Twisted half truth. He wanted higher taxes but Repubs fought him on each step and dragged him kicking a screaming to massive budget restrictions.


"In selling his $1.6 trillion tax cut-half of which went to the wealthiest 1% of Americans-Bush promised in 2001 that it would produce 800,000 new jobs. In fact, the economy has lost 2.7 million jobs since Bush took office, again, the worst economic performance since the Great Depression."Hey, stupid, that 1% of the people are paying 90% of the taxes. Of course they get the bigger break than people who don't pay tax! That is what spurs the economy!

So if you can't argue with facts, you have been shot down in flames again. Just Wxyz!

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it. Voltaire

Back fired when you tried it!

We are having an effect by resistance. We need to scream louder at the politicians.

Witness;

AL GORE wants to make a sequel to his Oscar-winning documentary on global warming – and despite Earth’s “rising fever” he is still hopeful for a happy ending.

We are, he says, all players in deciding the outcome.

Despite the success of his film An Inconvenient Truth and last year’s Live Earth concerts in raising awareness, the former US Vice President believes little has changed where it counts and the situation is even more urgent.

And he warns that while individual efforts such as changing to low-energy lightbulbs are important, it is more significant for world leaders to change laws to stop pollution pouring into the atmosphere and affecting the climate.

In an exclusive interview with The Sun, Mr Gore – hailed as the world’s leading green campaigner – said recent polls had found that while people rate climate change as a “serious problem”, some ranked it lower than clearing up dog mess.

“When politicians walk down the pavement, four or five of every ten people they meet ask, ‘What are you doing to solve the climate crisis?’ he said. “If you ask people their opinion, more than two thirds will say, ‘It’s a very serious issue, we’re responsible for it. We need to take action’. (NOW, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT? jb)

“But then if you give them a list of 25 or 30 issues and ask them to rank them in order of seriousness, climate change comes at the bottom or near the bottom.

“I remember one poll where it came under dog litter. People are more likely to respond to problems that can be felt – terrorism, traffic jams, anything that activates the responses in an immediate way.

“We think, ‘If it’s never happened before maybe it won’t ever happen in the future’. That’s a rule that can work but the exceptions can kill you. And global warming is one of the exceptions.”

Now HERE is a REAL threat!







Below are selected excerpts from Brigitte Gabriel's speech delivered at the Intelligence Summit in Washington DC - -





We gather here today to share information and knowledge. Intelligence is not merely cold hard data about numerical strength or armament or disposition of military forces. The most important element of intelligence has to be understanding the mindset and intention of the enemy. The West has been wallowing in a state of ignorance and denial for thirty years as Muslim extremist perpetrated evil against innocent victims in the name of Allah.

I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted, 'Allah Akbar!' My only crime was that I was a Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word 'infidel.'

I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13, I dressed in my burial clothes going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York , or Britons in London . We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon .

As a victim of Islamic terror, I was amazed when I saw Americans waking up on September 12, 2001, and asking themselves 'Why do they hate us?' The psychoanalyst experts were coming up with all sort of excuses as to what did we do to offend the Muslim World. But if America and the West were paying attention to the Middle East they would not have had to ask the question. Simply put, they hate us because we are defined in their eyes by one simple word: 'infidels.'

Under the banner of Islam 'la, ilaha illa Allah, muhammad rasoulu Allah,' (None is god except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah) they murdered Jewish children in Israel, massacred Christians in Lebanon, killed Copts in Egypt, Assyrians in Syria, Hindus in India, and expelled almost 900,000 Jews from Muslim lands. We Middle Eastern infidels paid the price then. Now infidels worldwide are paying the price for indifference and shortsightedness.

Tolerating evil is a crime. Appeasing murderers doesn't buy protection. It earns one disrespect and loathing in the enemy's eyes. Yet apathy is the weapon by which the West is committing suicide. Political correctness forms the shackles around our ankles, by which Islamists are leading us to our demise.

America and the West are doomed to failure in this war unless they stand up and identify the real enemy: Islam. You hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the enemy. News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam. An Islam that is awakening from centuries of slumber to re-ignite its wrath against the infidel and dominate the world. An Islam which has declared 'Intifada' on the West.

America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon. If you want to understand the nature of the enemy we face, visualize a tapestry of snakes. They slither and they hiss, and they would eat each other alive, but they will unite in a hideous mass to achieve their common goal of imposing Islam on the world.

This is the ugly face of the enemy we are fighting. We are fighting a powerful ideology that is capable of altering basic human instincts. An ideology that can turn a mother into a launching pad of death. A perfect example is a recently elected Hamas official in the Palestinian Territories who raves in heavenly joy about sending her three sons to death and offering the ones who are still alive for the cause. It is an ideology that is capable of offering highly educated individuals such as doctors and lawyers far more joy in attaining death than any respect and stature life in society is ever capable of giving them.

The United States has been a prime target for radical Islamic hatred and terror. Every Friday, mosques in the Middle East ring with shrill prayers and monotonous chants calling death, destruction and damnation down on America and its people. The radical Islamist deeds have been as vile as their words. Since the Iran hostage crisis, more than three thousand Americans have died in a terror campaign almost unpre cedented in its calcu- lated cruelty along with thousands of other citizens worldwide. Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims. This intentional, indiscriminate and wholesale murder of innocent American citizens is justified and glorified in the name of Islam.

America cannot effectively defend itself in this war unless and until the American people understand the nature of the enemy that we face. Even after 9/11 there are those who say that we must engage our terrorist enemies, that we must address their grievances. Their grievance is our freedom of religion. Their grievance is our freedom of speech. Their grievance is our democratic process where the rule of law comes from the voices of many not that of just one prophet. It is the respect we instill in our children towards all religions. It is the e quality we grant each other as human beings sharing a planet and striving to make the world a better place for all humanity. Their grievance is the kindness and respect a man shows a woman, the justice we practice as equals under the law, and the mercy we grant our enemy. Their grievance cannot be answered by an apology for who or what we are.

Our mediocre attitude of not confronting Islamic forces of bigotry and hatred wherever they raised their ugly head in the last 30 years, has empowered and strengthened our enemy to launch a full scale attack on the very freedoms we cherish in their effort to impose their values and way of life on our civilization.


If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America's learning curve since the Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to stand erect.


Brigitte Gabriel is an expert on the Middle East conflict and lectures nationally and internationally on the subject. She's the former news anchor of World News for Middle East television and the founder of AmericanCongressforTruth.com. More bio info at http://www.intelligencesummit.org/speakers/BrigitteGabriel.php

Don't worry about Islam, the Democrats will save the day. Jimmy Carter has gone over to make nice with them and we all know how effective he is. He took the Shaw of Iran out and was very effective in aiding the Iatola Homeni [how ever he spells it] into power. Both he and Clinton straightened out the Palatines. Carter even gave us a 20 percent inflation along with a 20 plus percent interest rate so we are in safe hands. Obama said he was going to change the grearest country in the world to something else. So don't worry...

An added note.......

Hurricane Expert Reconsiders Global Warming Link

Prominent MIT hurricane scientist Kerry Emanuel has publicly reversed his view regarding global warming's alleged impact on hurricanes.

“The [computer] models are telling us something quite different from what nature seems to be telling us," said Emanuel, whose views on hurricanes and global warming have been prominently cited by Al Gore and other promoters of climate change fear.

He told the New York Times. "There are various interpretations possible: The big increase in hurricane power over the past 30 years or so may not have much to do with global warming, or the models are simply not faithfully reproducing what nature is doing. Hard to know which to believe yet.”

In 2005, a few weeks before Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, Emmanuel asserted in a paper that he had found statistical evidence linking rising hurricane energy and global warming.

His conversion is a very important new development in the climate debate, said Marc Morano, a top aide to climate change skeptic Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla.

"First, 2007 turned out to be the ‘tipping point’ for global warming fears, and 2008 appears to be the year of vindication for skeptics as many prominent scientists reverse their climate views, more and more skeptical scientists speak out, and new data debunks man-made climate fears.

“Now another major scientist reconsiders his views on a significant aspect of man-made climate fears.”

One of the problems is that the worst hurricanes happened back between 1912 and on into the 1930s.........

What we have here is something that is still hard for me to understand. In 200 years and change our forbearers built the best country on earth. It abolished slavery, a human tradition since the beginning of time, it replaced the European institution of class determining a man's station in life with meritocracy and by constitution it insured the rights to practice religion, bear arms and limit the powers of government in individual's lives. We forget that in the last century and a half all other governments have used us as a template. The men that gave us the government we have were giants.

Things started to take a wrong turn with Franklin Roosevelt in the '30s. A bitter cripple, he sought to exploit the hard-working and turn over the fruits of their labor to life's losers. He set the destructive trend that is with to this day. He was followed by Truman, the last decent Democrat, winning election the year I was born. What followed from Democrats were non-entities but for the damage they caused. Kennedy, a hopeless incompetent and womanizer is best remembered for staring the Vietnam war and getting himself killed. Johnson, a self-loathing party aperatik who inflicted us with the 'Great Society" and welfare for all. He was followed by Carter, a contender for the worst president ever. Remember 20% inflation, 'there is a malaise on the country' and "I have lust in my heart'? He is hugging Hamas right now. The ultimate '60s narcissist "couldn't keep it in his pants' president was Clinton. His white-trash trailer-park wife is running now. It's her or Burak Mohamed Obama, a committed Marxist.

That sums up the Democrats and what they have contributed to our nation. They have made it a poorer place than before.

The best presidents in my lifetime are Ronald Regan, Richard Nixon, Dwight Eisenhower and George Bush II in order of importance and service to our country. Any one of them individually has done more good than all the Demoprez put together.

Mariss

Ahhheeeemmm........

From NBC/NJ’s Matthew Berger
PHILADELPHIA -- Chelsea Clinton stopped traffic Friday night as she wandered the streets of Philadelphia on a gay bar crawl, winning rave reviews for both her politics and her appearance.

Led around the neighborhood by Gov. Ed Rendell, Chelsea was mobbed by local gays and lesbians, as she walked from one club to the next. They ran up to hug her, posed for pictures and certainly invaded her personal space.

“I grabbed her ass,” one young woman exclaimed to her friends after snapping a picture with her arm around the former first daughter.

“Chelsea, the gays love you!” one fan exclaimed, as she took the microphone at Bump, a restaurant and bar that was her first stop. “Oh, gosh, I don’t know if everybody loves me,” she responded.

Ahhheeeemmm.........




By RYAN GRIM & MIKE ALLEN | 4/20/08 10:59 AM EST Updated: 4/20/08 7:13 PM EST
Text Size:

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) stoked debate over a ’60s radical’s ties to Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on ABC’s “This Week” on Sunday, saying Obama’s defense “borders on the outrageous.”

William Ayers — a former member of the Weather Underground, which embraced bombing in its effort to end the Vietnam War — became an issue in the Democratic nominating race at last week’s debate. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) said Obama’s past meetings with Ayers are part of a “larger set of concerns about how we are going to run against John McCain.” Republican sources said McCain plans to make a major issue of the connection in the months ahead.

Asked by host George Stephanopoulos whether he has any doubt that Obama shares his sense of patriotism, McCain brought the subject up.

“I'm sure he's very patriotic. But his relationship with Mr. Ayers is open to question,” McCain said.

“He became friends with him and spent time with him while the guy was unrepentant over his activities as a member of a terrorist organization, the Weathermen,” McCain said. “Does he condemn them? Would he condemn someone who says they're unrepentant and wished that they had bombed more?”

The article.


By Deborah Zabarenko, Environment Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Most people believe oil is running out and governments need to find another fuel, but Americans are alone in thinking their leaders are out of touch with reality on this issue, an international poll said on Sunday.

On average, 70 percent of respondents in 15 countries and the Palestinian territories said they thought oil supplies had peaked. Only 22 percent of the nearly 15,000 respondents in nations ranging from China to Mexico believed enough new oil would be found to keep it a primary fuel source.

"What's most striking is there's such a widespread consensus around the world that oil is running out and governments need to make a real effort to find new sources of energy," said Steven Kull, director of WorldPublicOpinion.org, a global research organization that conducted the poll.

Most remarkable is "governments need to make a real effort to find new sources of energy". When did any other than a fascist government concern itself with such things rather than leaving it to private enterprise? And isn't that what the US Govt. being accused of?

George Orwell, what have you wrought?

Don't worry about Islam, the Democrats will save the day. Jimmy Carter has gone over to make nice with them and we all know how effective he is.

FYI: It's official! Jimmy has negotiated a peace with hamas and the Jews!

Go Jimmy! (nuts)

Still no contact, Wdonna

FYI: It's official! Jimmy has negotiated a peace with hamas and the Jews!

Go Jimmy! (nuts)

Still no contact, Wdonna

Hi Rekd,
Sorry, I've been out of pocket. I had to network old computer with new to transfer data files, this disabled the internet. I'll catch up on what I've missed and get back with you.
Take care,
xyzdonna

FYI: It's official! Jimmy has negotiated a peace with hamas and the Jews!

Go Jimmy! (nuts)

Still no contact, Wdonna

Notice, please. that when she gets buried with data she cannot refute she gets scarce!

If your going to jump ... jump all the way in .... hydrogen technology is the way to go. We can literally run on "no fossil fuels required" and the by product (waste) is water. H2O. If you think it can't happen, there is a prototype car running on hydrogen as you read this. Send me your addy and I'll send you a .wmv file........

Why not leave it to private enterprise? Because of the massive infrastructure required for a national energy changeover to actually occur. I'm a believer in the "invisible hand" of capitalism, but especially when it comes to automobiles, there's a huge chicken and egg problem (need new stations for alternative fuel cars, but new stations don't make sense if there aren't any cars, etc.) I'm not a big government kind of guy, but I do believe national infrastructure is one of the few things the government is good for.

Besides, the government has spent upwards of half a trillion (and counting) on a war in Iraq to "stabilize" and protect oil interests in the Middle East. One might argue that even a small portion of that money spent on research into a new national energy infrastructure would have been a significantly higher return on investment, given the current prices of oil.

Personally, I would have loved to see us spend the money we spent on the war on nuclear power, distribution, and electric vehicles. That would have been the real answer to 9-11. "You don't like us? Fine, we're no longer buying oil. Enjoy going back to living in caves, OPEC".

Flame away,

Ahren

<snip>...Personally, I would have loved to see us spend the money we spent on the war on nuclear power, distribution, and electric vehicles.<snip>

Ahren

I prefer the money be spent on ME! On defending my way of life and my country from invasion of screaming fanatics who want to cut our heads off because we don't worship their god.

Nuke power is a good investment (if you can get the greenies out of the way) but just not by extracting extra tax money from the economy.

If electric vehicles are worth a damn they will sell like hotcakes, if not the will go to that "dust bin of history". Just don't waste my tax money on it.

Yep, hydrogen will run a motor. Safe? Hardly! VERY unstable (Hindenburg?) and likely to explode at any time AND is subject to diminishing returns UNLESS you can sell the Nukes to those greenies.

Vicious circle, never ending....no progress.

Why not leave it to private enterprise? Because of the massive infrastructure required for a national energy changeover to actually occur. I'm a believer in the "invisible hand" of capitalism, but especially when it comes to automobiles, there's a huge chicken and egg problem (need new stations for alternative fuel cars, but new stations don't make sense if there aren't any cars, etc.) I'm not a big government kind of guy, but I do believe national infrastructure is one of the few things the government is good for.

Besides, the government has spent upwards of half a trillion (and counting) on a war in Iraq to "stabilize" and protect oil interests in the Middle East. One might argue that even a small portion of that money spent on research into a new national energy infrastructure would have been a significantly higher return on investment, given the current prices of oil.

Personally, I would have loved to see us spend the money we spent on the war on nuclear power, distribution, and electric vehicles. That would have been the real answer to 9-11. "You don't like us? Fine, we're no longer buying oil. Enjoy going back to living in caves, OPEC".

Flame away,

Ahren

Hi Ahren,
No flames from me, I agree 100%. It's the knuckle dragging conservatives who will torch this idea. "Let's spend trillions on a war that strengthens the terrorists and puts more money in their pockets." All the while which weakens and demeans us around the world. My only hope is that the politics of stupidity will be laid to rest come next election.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Hi Ahren,
No flames from me, I agree 100%. It's the knuckle dragging conservatives who will torch this idea. "Let's spend trillions on a war that strengthens the terrorists and puts more money in their pockets." All the while which weakens and demeans us around the world. My only hope is that the politics of stupidity will be laid to rest come next election.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Not if Hellery or Obumma is elected! (misspellings are intentional!)

BTW, xyzdonna, don't you think those two have supplied the Republican party with enough ammo to sink any hope of either ever being elected president?

Hi Ahren,
No flames from me, I agree 100%. It's the knuckle dragging conservatives who will torch this idea. "Let's spend trillions on a war that strengthens the terrorists and puts more money in their pockets." All the while which weakens and demeans us around the world. My only hope is that the politics of stupidity will be laid to rest come next election.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Spend trillions on illegals? Huh? Wha?

Still no contact, Wdonna. (nuts)

Hi Ahren,
No flames from me, I agree 100%. It's the knuckle dragging conservatives who will torch this idea. "Let's spend trillions on a war that strengthens the terrorists and puts more money in their pockets." All the while which weakens and demeans us around the world. My only hope is that the politics of stupidity will be laid to rest come next election.
Take care,
xyzdonna


Are you insane? War STRENGTHENS terrorists? Getting your ass kicked makes you feel good?

By the way, Wxyz, it aint YOUR money, it aint THE GOVERNMENTS money. That is hard earned money that should go to the pocket of the person who earned it.

Yours is the politics of stupidity chasing algae oil and GoreBull Worming!

Speaking of weakening and demeaning and undermining, your hero (typical liberal) Jim Carter has certainly made an ass of himself again.Talk about pathetic, incompetent jerks! He should go back out there and play with his hammer! (choke, giggle, guffaw!)

Not if Hellery or Obumma is elected! (misspellings are intentional!)

BTW, xyzdonna, don't you think those two have supplied the Republican party with enough ammo to sink any hope of either ever being elected president?

You mis spelled your mis spelling! It should be OH-BUMMER!

You mis spelled your mis spelling! It should be OH-BUMMER!

Thank You!!!!

Hydrogen is actually not that unstable -- the Hindenberg actually had a lot more wrong with it than being filled with hydrogen, such as being constructed from oil-soaked material (the oil was required to keep hydrogen from leaking). It really isn't much more dangerous than gasoline, and it's one of the few useable substances with anywhere close to the energy density of gasoline. However, hydrogen is just a storage mechanism -- we need a source of energy to create it, and realistically nuclear is the only scalable option.

As for the complaint that it is wrong for "your tax money" to be spent on energy research, I would argue that it's wrong for my tax money to be spent prosecuting a war that is not making me any safer. While I personally abhor the loss of human life (estimates are that the war has indirectly caused the deaths of over 1,000,000 Iraqis), I tend to argue pragmatically that the return on investment from this war is, if not negative, certainly extremely small.

I disagree with your assessment of hydrogen gas Ahren. H2 is the single most flammable substance on earth. NOTHING is as easy to light off as hydrogen. Why do you think there is a LOT of water on earth but almost NO H2 gas??? We have to MAKE the stuff by separating it from other materials that it is attached to.

When you add in the simple fact that H2 is a gas at room temperature at ANY location on the globe at any time of the year (which means we have to store a high pressure gas instead of a fairly benign liquid), it makes H2 a WHOLE LOT more dangerous than gasoline. Because of the pressures it has to be stored at, it is more dangerous than CNG or propane.

Don't get me wrong. I DO think H2 has future once we develop a reliable energy source to produce it (aka: nuclear). But we CAN'T be cavalier about the dangers of using H2 in every vehicle in the world. If we are, the car accidents in the real world might start looking a whole lot more like Hollywood versions of accidents in movies.

http://www.hydrogennow.org/Facts/Safety-1.htm

Some interesting arguments for the safety of Hydrogen.

.....a war that is not making me any safer.Pure opinion, UNSUPPORTABLE by fact. Which place in the US was attacked that I missed? What national interest was damaged?

(estimates are that the war has indirectly caused the deaths of over 1,000,000 Iraqis),Who provided that number and how did they arrive at it?

As far as instability of hydrogen, I'll trust my own eyes, thank you very much! (Hydrogen will ignite itself in the presence of oxygen)

Not if Hellery or Obumma is elected! (misspellings are intentional!)

BTW, xyzdonna, don't you think those two have supplied the Republican party with enough ammo to sink any hope of either ever being elected president?

Hi CNC_Programmer;
No I don't, I think the voters are smart enough to take it in stride. I know I've mostly ignored it. My preference is beginning to lead toward Obama but I'll take whichever Dem. I can get. I think Obama is more electable. Hillery seems to be more divisive.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Hi Ahren,
No flames from me, I agree 100%. It's the knuckle dragging conservatives who will torch this idea. "Let's spend trillions on a war that strengthens the terrorists and puts more money in their pockets." All the while which weakens and demeans us around the world. My only hope is that the politics of stupidity will be laid to rest come next election.
Take care,
xyzdonna

THE TACTIC:

When the facts against her begin to fly like a blizzard there is a computer problem, a trip out of town or a class she must attend that prevents answer to issues she can't confront.

Then when someone posts something with which she can agree or safely comment on she comes back flaming conservatives, the war, oil companies, etc!

The attempt is to continue her argument which has lost as if it hasn't. It is a habit of the born losers of the left!

There, Wxyz, your mask is off again! Peal-a-boo! We see you!

Hi CNC_Programmer;
No I don't, I think the voters are smart enough to take it in stride. I know I've mostly ignored it. My preference is beginning to lead toward Obama but I'll take whichever Dem. I can get. I think Obama is more electable. Hillery seems to be more divisive.
Take care,
xyzdonna


She's gonna vote for Boraxo Bummer! What a surprise!

Hi CNC_Programmer;
No I don't, I think the voters are smart enough to take it in stride. I know I've mostly ignored it. My preference is beginning to lead toward Obama but I'll take whichever Dem. I can get. I think Obama is more electable. Hillery seems to be more divisive.
Take care,
xyzdonna

I think you used the wrong words! "many Democrats are not smart enough to understand" fits better (see your next sentence)

"the time, there was no scientific consensus, because the science of climatology was in its infancy"

Climatology is still pre nuptial - it's not even nubile!. Has anyone taken the time to read Bill Bryson's book on science? For (insert religous icon of opposite religon here)'s sake.

Scientists themselves and Physicists in particular, have been changing their minds in major ways about the way the universe ticks every 30 years or less. I believe that the climate change which is currently being touted by those erudite guessers is only as likely as the ice age that was predicted in the nineteen seventies.

Everyone knows that nations and empires are always united by a common enemy and that science and industry flourish under these extreme conditions.
I think this is a political non blood shedding alternative to a war.

I believe that mankind has an innate psychological need for an impending disaster or a war. I think that the powers that be have read their history books and realise this as well.

I personally am unwilling to believe in something that is not backed by solid evidence. In fact I am more inclined to join with the conspiracy theorists on this one, as true political power is only gained when there is a war on.

Things have been pretty stale for the powers that be lately, what with the embarassment of enemy's biological weapons turning out to be harmless insecticide etc. What the big boys need is a real baddy to fight that no one can argue with. Unless they want to be pollitically incorrect.

.......<snip>........ What the big boys need is a real baddy to fight that no one can argue with. Unless they want to be politically incorrect.


Well, they thought they had invented the perfect enemy. Two big problems.

We have a real enemy at the gates that is sheading real blood and demanding urgent attention.

And there is a large contingent of the populace not stupid enough th by their line of crap!

Hi Rekd,
Sorry, I've been out of pocket. I had to network old computer with new to transfer data files, this disabled the internet. I'll catch up on what I've missed and get back with you.
Take care,
xyzdonna

donna, you don't have to lie to hang out. I know (as does everyone else) that you won't debate with substance. You'll call a few people names, you'll quote some highly biased article and you'll move on and ignore any and all points that debunk your drivel.

It's painfully clear to many (most) here that you have no backbone and no ability to defend your positions with anything but name-calling.

You continually ignore facts.

You continually insult others.

You continually refuse to acknowledge when someone calls you out for lying.

Your hypocrisy has earned you a place in my signature, and you are so ashamed of yourself that you refuse to even acknowledge it, yet are ignorant enough to think that if YOU ignore it, everyone else will too.

You're transparent, donna. You've been proven wrong on so many occasions I cannot count any more, and you refuse to try to prove your points.

How sad to be you.

Well, they thought they had invented the perfect enemy. Two big problems.

We have a real enemy at the gates that is sheading real blood and demanding urgent attention.

And there is a large contingent of the populace not stupid enough th by their line of crap!

I agree, but how long will that real enemy last? How effectictive can they be against the might of the USA, now that they are prepared for those underhand shock tactics?
Politically speaking you need an enemy that is going to last the term, not a mopping up operation.

PS: Donna must be hot stuff since the site admin seems to be too excited to look at which topic he's posting on :)

PS: Donna must be hot stuff since the site admin seems to be too excited to look at which topic he's posting on :)

I seriously doubt she's that hot. And even if she was, there's a certain point (which she passed long long ago) that will make it so no matter how attractive a person is, their bad attitude more than makes up for it.

BTW, I don't recall donna posting in any threads but this one for the last few weeks. She's obsessed. Ignorant, but obsessed.

I agree, but how long will that real enemy last? How effectictive can they be against the might of the USA, now that they we prepared for those underhand shock tactics?
Politically speaking you need an enemy that is going to last the term, not a mopping up operation.

PS: Donna must be hot stuff since the site admin seems to be too excited to look at which topic he's posting on :)

They have survived for thousands of years and still refuse to advance certain parts of their culture beyond the 11th century. They will continue subversion (witness the continuing carnage in Israel) as long as we have a fifth column right here obstructing the effort and demanding that we yield in defeat as we did in 'Nam.

You can see the defeatism first hand in just the last several posts!

PS: Donna must be hot stuff since the site admin seems to be too excited to look at which topic he's posting on :)

BIG difference between excited and sickened!

BIG difference between excited and sickened!

Sorry, that was a tongue in cheek remark, no offence intended.
With the enemy at the gates I thought a bit of levity appropriate :)

Seriously though, what do you think of my idea that political powers need to keep the population in awe of a common enemy in order to boost GDP AKA after all we're doing it for our boys?
The reality probably is that they may be sacrificing the boys for their own political goals. This is fine and is normal practice if it is not your son that is dead.

Seriously though, what do you think of my idea that political powers need to keep the population in awe of a common enemy in order to boost GDP AKA after all we're doing it for our boys?
The reality probably is that they may be sacrificing the boys for their own political goals. This is fine and is normal practice if it is not your son that is dead.


EVERYTHING on this thread needs to be viewed with a bit of levity, else one would go stark raving mad.

Of course there is some thread of truth to your theory. I believe that the left, who perpetrated this hoax, thinks we are all lemmings and that we need a unifying cause. It's been the theme in all the science fiction thrillers for years.

There is a very real and dark side to this as well because the motives of these arrogant (single cut files) is the same as for the Nazis, Communists, Romans and a list of self appointed tyrants trailing off into history. And they must be resisted with every ounce of energy and passion that we have just as we resisted all the rest of our enemies. The real tragedy is that this load of horse exhaust comes at a time when we need to apply our strength against bloodthirsty barbarians gathering against us world wide. That makes the likes of Algore and Wxyzdonna all the more insidious. A fifth column to the real enemy.

Spend trillions on illegals? Huh? Wha?

Still no contact, Wdonna. (nuts)

Hi Rekd,
What exactly did you want me to comment on?
Take care,
xyzdonna
Judge of a man by his questions rather than by his answers. Voltaire

Hi Rekd,
What exactly did you want me to comment on?
Take care,
xyzdonna


That's what I thought.

One of the major setbacks for hydrogen is a phenomena known as hydrogen embrittlement which is the ability for hydrogen to alloy with other substances causing the base substance to become hard, brittle, and prone to strength loss and cracking. Trucks and hydrogen storage units have to be inspected at close intervals in order to keep on top of this problem. This is one of the reasons that it is not proposed to burn in combustion engines directly on a large scale. Although Sweden and a few other countries are going in this direction due to they having to import 90 percent of their energy, it is felt by them that they can solve the embrittlement problem before it becomes a major issue. The only thing that seems to work so far is ceramic coating of all metal parts in contact with the hydrogen or to make the complete part out of ceramics. So far, this is a very expensive solution which in turn requires huge amounts of energy to manufacture.

Hydrogen can be used to produce electricity by using an onboard vehicle fuel cell but there may be a problem in the catalyst material in that it will have to be a costly replacement at specific usage intervals because of the hydrogen ability to migrate into other materials. This replacement interval is the same reason that a little reported problem with electric cars. About every three years, the complete battery pack has to be replaced at a cost ranging from $2,400 for standard heavy duty batteries to as high $8,000 for some of the more exotic batteries. Think of one of your battery operated devises and the times when you have to replace those batteries, then scale it up to the electric car size. Then there is the disposal of spent batteries to take care of. If one has to pay to get rid of the batteries used in small electronic units, one will have to pay in scale for the disposal or the rebuilding of the electric car's batteries.

Add to all of these costs the politicians will have to get their cut. Some states and cities are so fearful of loosing income that they are exploring systems to tax vehicles by the mile, or by the year at a set rate for every vehicle, or by an additional sales or income tax to pay for the losses. One city talked about putting in neighborhood toll booths to collect monies from people just moving from one part of town to another. All of this would be in addition to any taxes collected from the replacement sale of any battery packs or the sale of any alternate fuel.

LA California and London, England have already collected a $2,400 bond each from a few people that have been caught driving diesel engined cars on vegetable oil. Both cities have discussed doing the same for electric and other alternate fuel powered vehicles.

These issues are complicated as any issue might be when replacing one of the supports of any civilization. There are going to be a lot of unforeseen and unintended consequences while rushing to change. A lot of people getting hurt no matter how it occurs.

On another point, I have a lot of liberal neighbors that are very vocal with their thinking. Several of them take the Jimmy Carter approach and want to find out why a particular enemy doesn't like us. Some of the others state that 50,000 people a year are killed in automobile accidents, why should we worry about 2 or 3 thousand killed by a group of disgruntled foreigners ??? Others take the tack of what is mentioned here in that we just won't buy the Middle East oil if they want to treat us badly. The problem there is that less than 10 percent of our oil comes from the Middle East...we get most of our oil from Canada and Mexico with a small amount coming from South America.

As far as the price of oil goes, look to the speculators who are gambling on rising oil prises on the commodity markets. If one wants to really get into the cost of gasoline as opposed to income, one will find that a gallon of gas generally costs, [although, like the weather, it is consistently inconsistent..] around 1/4 of the average hourly wages in the US. This doesn't help the people that make below average wage, it never has.

What I am puzzled about is the same people that wanted to tax gasoline to elevate the price to around $5.00 a gallon are among the many that are complaining about paying the high price for oil. It seems to me that they would be happy as they can be.

Also note that the terrorist also realize this oil/cost vulnerability and are now starting to target oil tankers. The loss of oil in these occasions will not effect us directly, but, because of the way the commodity market works, it will effect the price we pay for oil which is their intent.

BIG difference between excited and sickened!

Yes there is but don't you find it ironic that both will cause a fever ??? ;->

What we have here is something that is still hard for me to understand. In 200 years and change our forbearers built the best country on earth. It abolished slavery, a human tradition since the beginning of time, it replaced the European institution of class determining a man's station in life with meritocracy and by constitution it insured the rights to practice religion, bear arms and limit the powers of government in individual's lives. We forget that in the last century and a half all other governments have used us as a template. The men that gave us the government we have were giants.

Things started to take a wrong turn with Franklin Roosevelt in the '30s. A bitter cripple, he sought to exploit the hard-working and turn over the fruits of their labor to life's losers. He set the destructive trend that is with to this day. He was followed by Truman, the last decent Democrat, winning election the year I was born. What followed from Democrats were non-entities but for the damage they caused. Kennedy, a hopeless incompetent and womanizer is best remembered for staring the Vietnam war and getting himself killed. Johnson, a self-loathing party aperatik who inflicted us with the 'Great Society" and welfare for all. He was followed by Carter, a contender for the worst president ever. Remember 20% inflation, 'there is a malaise on the country' and "I have lust in my heart'? He is hugging Hamas right now. The ultimate '60s narcissist "couldn't keep it in his pants' president was Clinton. His white-trash trailer-park wife is running now. It's her or Burak Mohamed Obama, a committed Marxist.

That sums up the Democrats and what they have contributed to our nation. They have made it a poorer place than before.

The best presidents in my lifetime are Ronald Regan, Richard Nixon, Dwight Eisenhower and George Bush II in order of importance and service to our country. Any one of them individually has done more good than all the Demoprez put together.

Mariss

Hi Mariss,
I'm gone for a day and you're running this up the flag pole already? What, you thought I wasn't coming back? Gimme a break, Nixon? I'll agree he was smart, unlike the current occupant of the white house but of course he was a crook. Reagan, he was the idiot who invented this welfare for the rich, what daddy Bush called "voodoo economics", which of course it was. I won't even get into the Iran contra affair. I guess you like Eisenhower because he didn't do much. The current president is the worst in my lifetime, possibly in the history of the republic. We're fighting a war that need not have been, running huge deficits while giving tax breaks to the wealthy, the value of the dollar is down by about a third. That's real money that we've lost. Inflation is up, people are losing their homes, the economy is in a shambles and you think this is good? I am dumbfounded by your logic, talk about alien landscape!
Take care,
xyzdonna

Hi Mariss,
I'm gone for a day and you're running this up the flag pole already? What, you thought I wasn't coming back? Gimme a break, Nixon? I'll agree he was smart unlike the current occupant of the white house but of course he was a crook.

That's it? That's the best you can muster against all that thoughtful and thought filled, provocative monologue?

This is a perfect example of what frosts our asses. For all your proclamations of intellect you come off like a simpleton! Pathetic!

I was mistaken in my previous post when I stated 1,000,000 Iraqis died as a result of the Iraq war -- sorry for the alarmism. The number is a paltry 650,000, and maybe as low as 392,000. 100x is DEFINITELY a proportionate response to losing 3000 people during 9-11:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Given my mistake, I've come around to the point of view that this war was a good idea. How much has it cost us to kill each of those people? Let's see. Assuming we've spent $500,000,000,000 on the war, and 500,000 people have died that's $1,000,000 for each death -- what a bargain!

Except...we didn't mean to kill those people -- those were civilians. Oh well, they weren't American, so we can't really be concerned by their deaths anyway, (given that we're a Christian country and all). The number of "terrorists" we have killed is certainly less than that, but to be fair we'll put it at a whopping 50,000. That's only $10,000,000 per terrorist. And seriously, they HAVE to be running out by now, right? After all, there are a finite amount of evil people in the world -- once we kill them all, there won't be any more. And we don't even have to kill all of them -- just enough to make the others scared, and then they'll give up. We've almost won!

I'm sure Donna will give up now, given all the solid fact-based arguments I've just made -- the rest of you can thank me later. Yep, this war was worth every penny.

donna, you don't have to lie to hang out. I know (as does everyone else) that you won't debate with substance. You'll call a few people names, you'll quote some highly biased article and you'll move on and ignore any and all points that debunk your drivel.

It's painfully clear to many (most) here that you have no backbone and no ability to defend your positions with anything but name-calling.

You continually ignore facts.

You continually insult others.

You continually refuse to acknowledge when someone calls you out for lying.

Your hypocrisy has earned you a place in my signature, and you are so ashamed of yourself that you refuse to even acknowledge it, yet are ignorant enough to think that if YOU ignore it, everyone else will too.

You're transparent, donna. You've been proven wrong on so many occasions I cannot count any more, and you refuse to try to prove your points.

How sad to be you.

Hi Rekd,
Not lying, just networked a couple of computers together to transfer data while I changed out systems. Had to disconnect the internet to do it. Now what specifically do you want me to address?
Take care,
xyzdonna

I was mistaken in my previous post when I stated 1,000,000 Iraqis died as a result of the Iraq war -- sorry for the alarmism. The number is a paltry 650,000, and maybe as low as 392,000. 100x is DEFINITELY a proportionate response to losing 3000 people during 9-11:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Given my mistake, I've come around to the point of view that this war was a good idea. How much has it cost us to kill each of those people? Let's see. Assuming we've spent $500,000,000,000 on the war, and 500,000 people have died that's $1,000,000 for each death -- what a bargain!

Except...we didn't mean to kill those people -- those were civilians. Oh well, they weren't American, so we can't really be concerned by their deaths anyway, (given that we're a Christian country and all). The number of "terrorists" we have killed is certainly less than that, but to be fair we'll put it at a whopping 50,000. That's only $10,000,000 per terrorist. And seriously, they HAVE to be running out by now, right? After all, there are a finite amount of evil people in the world -- once we kill them all, there won't be any more. And we don't even have to kill all of them -- just enough to make the others scared, and then they'll give up. We've almost won!

I'm sure Donna will give up now, given all the solid fact-based arguments I've just made -- the rest of you can thank me later. Yep, this war was worth every penny.

Ahmm ahren;
Assuming your numbers are right $10 million per terrorist? That doesn't sound like too good a deal to me!
Take care,
xyzdonna

I was mistaken in my previous post when I stated 1,000,000 Iraqis died as a result of the Iraq war -- sorry for the alarmism. The number is a paltry 650,000, and maybe as low as 392,000. 100x is DEFINITELY a proportionate response to losing 3000 people during 9-11:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Given my mistake, I've come around to the point of view that this war was a good idea. How much has it cost us to kill each of those people? Let's see. Assuming we've spent $500,000,000,000 on the war, and 500,000 people have died that's $1,000,000 for each death -- what a bargain!

Except...we didn't mean to kill those people -- those were civilians. Oh well, they weren't American, so we can't really be concerned by their deaths anyway, (given that we're a Christian country and all). The number of "terrorists" we have killed is certainly less than that, but to be fair we'll put it at a whopping 50,000. That's only $10,000,000 per terrorist. And seriously, they HAVE to be running out by now, right? After all, there are a finite amount of evil people in the world -- once we kill them all, there won't be any more. And we don't even have to kill all of them -- just enough to make the others scared, and then they'll give up. We've almost won!

I'm sure Donna will give up now, given all the solid fact-based arguments I've just made -- the rest of you can thank me later. Yep, this war was worth every penny.

Condescension and sarcasm won't get you far around here.

How many of those people that your heart is bleeding for were killed by Alquida? How many by Shiite radicals? How many by Sunni radicals? How many were killed by Iraqi Police? Iraqi Army? How many in those figures were killed by Saddam's lunatic home defense gorillas? How many were killed while they were trying to kill a GI?

I have what is a more relevant question, why do you hate America? The hatred is oozing from your every pore. You probably aren't even aware of how unhappy it's making you, but I assure you that one day the lights will come on and you will wake up and see the light!

Until then, good luck and God bless your tender little heart.

Donna,
There you go with your liberal "funny math". What do you think would be a good price for a terrorist? Keep in mind, we're blowing up lots of stuff too, not just people. In the process, we've destroyed all sorts of terrorist tents, terrorist bakeries, and terrorist hair salons as well. Now we'll be able to tell who is a terrorist better -- they'll be the ones with the bad haircuts! Bet you didn't think of that, smarty pants.

Ahren

A short time ago, there was a humorous situation that occured here locally.

Several years ago, two neighbors were fighting over the cutting down of some trees. Neighbor 1 sued neighbor 2 because neighbor 2 wanted to cut down two large trees and landscape his yard. Neighbor 1 said that the trees are part of nature and that they also give shade to his own house as well as neighbor 2's house and therefore are part of the energy conservation that so many people are striving for. Neighbor 1 won the suite and the court ordered neighbor 2 to leave his trees as they were, uncut and standing tall.

Fast forward to the near present. Neighbor 1 has found religion and installed electric solar panels on his roof to the tune of $45,000.00.... He has asked neighbor 2 to cut down his trees because they are casting a shadow onto neighbor 1's solar panels causing them to be only 30 percent effective. Neighbor 1 won that suit also but got a shock when the judge stated that in light of the previous law suit that neighbor 1 had used to force neighbor 2 to keep the trees, the judge ordered the city works department come out to cut the trees, remove the stumps, and repair the yard where the trees were...and neighbor 1 will have to pay all costs for the trees removal. It cost around $3,000.00 a tree for the removal.....

Maybe Karma does come around to bite back.......

Donna,
There you go with your liberal "funny math". What do you think would be a good price for a terrorist? Keep in mind, we're blowing up lots of stuff too, not just people. In the process, we've destroyed all sorts of terrorist tents, terrorist bakeries, and terrorist hair salons as well. Now we'll be able to tell who is a terrorist better -- they'll be the ones with the bad haircuts! Bet you didn't think of that, smarty pants.

Ahren

Hi Ahren,
I've thought about it a lot actually, I think you could pull it off for about $10K per terrorist. Here's what I would do, train kids in ROTC to fly those little model airplane flight simulators. You could put some serious firepower into one of those 1/2 scale model airplanes. Send them off with a TV camera, come across terrorists and shzaam, shoot em like fish in a barrel.
Take care,
xyzdonna

That's what I thought.

Hi Rekd,
Just as I thought as well, you didn't really want me to comment. You just wanted to say that I wouldn't address the issues, which I'm quite willing to do.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Hi Rekd,
Just as I thought as well, you didn't really want me to comment. You just wanted to say that I wouldn't address the issues, which I'm quite willing to do.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Willing maybe, capable.....no!

you didn't really want me to comment

Right. Sorry.

Because as usual, you know what I want/need, don't you?

Aside from that: Lets start here, as it seems to be a very telling and obvious self-characterization...

I guess they [conservatives] think it's in their own best interests to keep as much of their money as possible.

Yes conservatives are paranoid, they think all us liberals want to do is separate them from their booty.

As obviously two-faced as the two statements are, justify each one for me both as independent statements and as shown.

Then justify the many other instances where you basically did the same thing, i.e. religion etc.

Take your time.

Right. Sorry.

Because as usual, you know what I want/need, don't you?

Aside from that: Lets start here, as it seems to be a very telling and obvious self-characterization...





As obviously two-faced as the two statements are, justify each one for me both as independent statements and as shown.

Then justify the many other instances where you basically did the same thing, i.e. religion etc.

Take your time.

Hi Rekd,
I was simply stating that conservatives were solely interested in low taxes to the exclusion of what was best for the country as a whole. It's obvious isn't it? They care little that we've spent gargantuan sums fighting a war that didn't need to be fought, but prattle endlessly about spending for health care for the poor. The patent stupidity of the conservative position defies all reason. Religion you want? Remember Jesus's admonition, remove the mote from your eye? I don't care what you want/need. This country needs to be put back on track with sane sustainable policies. This administrations energy policy has consisted of inviting an oil sheik out to the ranch, patting him on the back with a few attaboy's. Bush is a moron, most every appointee has had to be replaced. Harriet Myers for the supreme court, even his own party wouldn't countenance that. Lowering taxes while fighting a war and churning up massive deficits was the height of fiscal stupidity. It borders on criminal incompetence. This administration is so drop dead stupid it amazes me.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Well, a little more Gorebull worming news!

Winter weather sets several records

With file from Darah Hansen
Canwest News Service; Vancouver Sun

Monday, April 21, 2008

All that April snow this weekend was more than surprising -- it was also record-setting.

The flakes that fell across the Vancouver region Friday night and Saturday represent the latest snowfall ever on record.

At its peak, the storm dumped 2.5 cm of snow at the Vancouver International Airport, with 8 cm at Lynn Valley and 30 cm at Mount Seymour. Vancouver Island recorded 6.4 cm of snow at Victoria International Airport by 11 a.m. Saturday -- more than any on an April day since 1940. But the big record dump came in Nanaimo, where the city hadn't seen measurable snow on April 19 since 1947. As of 11 a.m., 24 cm covered the ground at the airport.
© The Vancouver Sun 2008

By BROOKES MERRITT, SUN MEDIA


So much for global warming. Earth Day festivities went ahead despite the blast of frigid weather yesterday.

Vendors and presenters from various eco-friendly groups, including Bullfrog Power, CO2 Reduction Edmonton and the local solar energy society, crammed into a lone tent in Hawrelak Park after a blizzard forced them to abandon their original locations.

Organizers crammed over 40 groups in a space that would normally be occupied by half that number. Presenters' booths were initially planned to have been spread out between at least five tents, with far larger displays.

"We're normally here with a lineup of cyclists for our free bike repair service. No bikers came today. Big surprise," said Chris Field of Mountain Equipment Co-Op.

A handful of visitors still took the time to inquire about several solar-powered products on display at the M.E.C. booth and browsed several others before running off toward the lone heater in the tent to warm up.

A lemonade vendor towards the front might as well not have been there.

"Obviously we'll have fewer people than we would have liked, but to cancel an Earth Day event because of weather would kind of be the antithesis of what this is all about," said organizer Janice Boudreau.

"This isn't about celebrating just the parts of the Earth that we like, it's about celebrating all of it."

Eco-Air representative Eric Gormley couldn't convince local kids lobbying city council for an anti-idling bylaw to brave the cold yesterday, but happily stepped up on their behalf, offering stickers and information about greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles.

"We're here to raise awareness of the problem, even though on a day like today you don't necessarily think of global warming," he said.

"We especially want to encourage young people in school to join us. It's the youth that have the power to make real change."

Hi Rekd,
I was simply stating that conservatives were solely interested in low taxes to the exclusion of what was best for the country as a whole.

Again you know what I want/need. How quaint. Your arrogance is pathetic.

This country is off it's foundation. It is breeding a dependent population that will ultimately be it's demise via bloated government.

You think people can't take care of themselves. They can. I have no issue with a "safety net". But people need to be responsible for themselves.

It's obvious isn't it?

How arrogant.

They care little that we've spent gargantuan sums fighting a war that didn't need to be fought, but prattle endlessly about spending for health care for the poor.

How about the money we spend on illegals? How about the money we spend on welfare for people perfectly capable of working? etc etc etc

The patent stupidity of the conservative position defies all reason.

The line is drawn. You will not directly attack one more group. Period. I've been very lenient with everyone to this point. You are not going to be given any slack any more.

Religion you want?

No, thank you. I am not religious.

I don't care what you want/need.

As long as you get my booty??

Lowering taxes while fighting a war and churning up massive deficits was the height of fiscal stupidity.


Economics is not your strong point obviously.

Seriously, donna, you're simply annoying. You have no valid argument, no valid data, no class, you're a hypocrite, and no idea what you're talking about most of the time.

Now, if you're done side-stepping me, as I knew you would, please do as I asked in my previous post and justify your hypocrisy in the two statements:

You insinuate conservatives are wrongly worried that you want their booty.