Absolutely not, but I know that it is nothing more than a hoax perpetrated for the financial and power gain for the likes of Algor.

Wxyz,

After witnessing the past few pages, do you think these folks are apt to personally sacrifice any creature comforts of privileges for the cause of GW?

Laughable to say the least.

Forget Global Warming that's the real drivel. We can read the agenda behind these manipulations of truth. What scares me is that someone like you can see this far yet still be blinded to the same manipulations of power and control of Cannabis propaganda.

Do you really support the criminal warlords who profit from the illegal status of a plant which is scientifically proven to be less harmful than alcohol, not addictive like tobacco, and about as abusable as coffee ( all legal drugs )? To do so only continues the power, wealth, and might of criminals, and in whose interest is that?

What is your purpose in continuing such a system which only encourages lawbreaking? Why do you seem to be encouraging the profitability and viability of a black market for what are obviously Highly desired goods.

DESTROY THE POWER OF CRIME, Control the markets; or explain why you cede the power to organized crime. Your methods only create more criminals, is that your aim

that is prefect .........smoking dope is as smart as the believing in global warming extremism......i always wondered where the gw extremist came from.... a dope smoke filled room......thanks for clearifing it :-)

that is prefect .........smoking dope is as smart as the believing in global warming extremism......i always wondered where the gw extremist came from.... a dope smoke filled room......thanks for clearifing it :-)

You are doing the same as a lot of others; putting your own interpretation on something and then disagreeing with that interpretation. The point that was being made is that you have someone who rejects all the Global Warming 'science' but is willing to accept all the Reefer Madness 'science' as being gospel truth. In fact in both cases the ones who stand to benefit dress things up to suit their side; and a lot of people do benefit from the Reefer Madness nonsense all the way through the spectrum from the pushers and couries on the street up to the lawyers for both sides in the courts.

Forget Global Warming that's the real drivel. We can read the agenda behind these manipulations of truth. What scares me is that someone like you can see this far yet still be blinded to the same manipulations of power and control of Cannabis propaganda.

Do you really support the criminal warlords who profit from the illegal status of a plant which is scientifically proven to be less harmful than alcohol, not addictive like tobacco, and about as abusable as coffee ( all legal drugs )? To do so only continues the power, wealth, and might of criminals, and in whose interest is that?

What is your purpose in continuing such a system which only encourages lawbreaking? Why do you seem to be encouraging the profitability and viability of a black market for what are obviously Highly desired goods.

DESTROY THE POWER OF CRIME, Control the markets; or explain why you cede the power to organized crime. Your methods only create more criminals, is that your aim

Well, you are right that GW is "the real drivel" but it is at least supposed to be the topic under discussion in this thread.

Your reticence to confront that topic and instead address your own inane desire to blow whatever is left of your mind with some noxious weed indicates to me, at least, that you are the one who is blind to the effects on the mind and body and that your perceived need to continue the destruction of them obliterates all logic and indeed any other subject.

Allow me to couch this in language even you can understand. "Go smoke another one, DUDE"!

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/na.html

UNITED STATES
Climate Summary
January 2008


The average temperature in January 2008 was 30.5 F. This was -0.3 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average, the 49th coolest January in 114 years. The temperature trend for the period of record (1895 to present) is 0.1 degrees Fahrenheit per decade.

smoke a big one .................... does the aluminum hat itch?...........i really do not see the nexus between global warming and apparent reefer induced paranoia.........maybe there were right????:-0

Well, the geologists have a principle that states what processes are working today likely caused the features of the past. You know, the Mississippi deposits silt, and this gets made into rock...


So if we know something caused temperatures to drop in the past, the same thing would happen if we put that process in effect today.

Volcanic ash from erruptions in the 1800's caused a big temp drop.

How many planes fly a day??? Repulverise the ash, dump some of it out in high altitude and use the soot to reflect off the sun... Stop when you notice an effect. If we increase the reflection, more CO2 means faster growing plants until they balance things out :)

I'm sure they'll figure out something when the water starts rising :)


Mike Horne

Well, the geologists have a principle that states what processes are working today likely caused the features of the past. You know, the Mississippi deposits silt, and this gets made into rock...


So if we know something caused temperatures to drop in the past, the same thing would happen if we put that process in effect today.

Volcanic ash from erruptions in the 1800's caused a big temp drop.

How many planes fly a day??? Repulverise the ash, dump some of it out in high altitude and use the soot to reflect off the sun... Stop when you notice an effect. If we increase the reflection, more CO2 means faster growing plants until they balance things out :)

I'm sure they'll figure out something when the water starts rising :)


Mike Horne


Got a lot of confidence in scientists, after they were the ones to bring us Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Thalidomide, LSD, weaponized Anthrax and a whole raft of other "blessings".

Yea, we want THEM mawdiggin with the atmosphere when they can't even predict the weather next week! (figure something out, indeed) And overseen by the government, no doubt. The same people who gave us the Katrina response / circle jerk political carnival/circus act!!

YAASSSS INdeed.

Volcanic ash from erruptions in the 1800's caused a big temp drop.


Mike Horne

Dear Mike,

Presumably the same effect might prove of benefit, as regards "Global Warming", if the assembled company "sparked up a biggie" on a regular basis??

Count me in on the experiment when the Government funding comes through..

Best wishes,

Martin

" Well, you are right that GW is "the real drivel" but it is at least supposed to be the topic under discussion in this thread.

<< Unless, of course, you decide to discuss the vagaries of political pigeonholing >>

Your reticence to confront that topic and instead address your own inane desire to blow whatever is left of your mind with some noxious weed indicates to me, at least, that you are the one who is blind to the effects on the mind and body and that your perceived need to continue the destruction of them obliterates all logic and indeed any other subject.

<< my logic is impecable as demonstrated by the dozens of pieces of industy-used test software I have written that function correctly and by the scores of TTL, CMOS and CPLD circuits that met design specifications. Don't underestimate the intelligence of "pot" smokers, their ilk includes, lawyers, judges, scientists, musicians, engineers, teachers, machinists, doctors and even policemen. >> "

As you said,
Originally Posted by jhowelb

" You may see conversations that provide you with a certain amount of entertainment, I see a conspiracy with deadly intent! I see numbers of "useful idiots",

so do I see the start of conspiracy when misinformation is dispensed by the ill-informed and so am prompted to correct the injustice.

In words you can understand, if you spread falsehoods I will point it out, not polite...tough nuggies!

You are doing the same as a lot of others; putting your own interpretation on something and then disagreeing with that interpretation. The point that was being made is that you have someone who rejects all the Global Warming 'science' but is willing to accept all the Reefer Madness 'science' as being gospel truth. In fact in both cases the ones who stand to benefit dress things up to suit their side; and a lot of people do benefit from the Reefer Madness nonsense all the way through the spectrum from the pushers and couries on the street up to the lawyers for both sides in the courts.

Well said Geof,
Junk science is junk science, irrespective of the motive. To discern the world as it is, I suppose is the ultimate high. The jury is still out on GW, the jury decided a long time ago that the "special interests" always work toward their own interests.
Take care,
xyzdonna

my logic is impecable as demonstrated by the dozens of pieces of industy-used test software I have written that function correctly and by the scores of TTL, CMOS and CPLD circuits that met design specifications. Don't underestimate the intelligence of "pot" smokers, their ilk includes, lawyers, judges, scientists, musicians, engineers, teachers, machinists, doctors and even policemen.

Had a hand in putting some judges, lawyers, policemen and teachers in jail. Profession is no indicator of intelligence.

It's your judgment that is suspect IMO.

Find someone else to try to convince about the benefits of using dope. I have no interest in whether your life goes up in smoke or not. Crawl up on the heap and I'll lite the pyre for you!

In the past on food,


I find it rather stupid for a person to insist on their 'right' to gorge on whatever they want and then pop-off from a massive heart attack in their fifties.

This is now on pot,

What is so special about the area of what a person chooses to ingest?

This is rich. :p


On one side we have an environmentalist complaining about carbon emissions, but intentionally inhales toxins to get high on at least one in the bunch. Then on the other side we have a quasi-vegetarian that is placing the consumption rights of drugs ahead of questionably raised meat.


LMAOROF!!!!!

I do question my own understanding of what I think I know to be right or wrong, but the aformentioned perspectives are from a self proclaimed logical pair, if not carbon copied mirror images; is just special!

Makes me very afraid to look on the dark side of the moon!:D

Yes, I suppose I can agree to an extent that I do not want greater restriction due to GW hype with mixed sciences that do not match up to doom. Where I draw the distinction is that GW is an infinite variable in global proportions. The human body is finite and the social/health facts connected to pot use are reliably well documented to affect reasoning and motor skills, which duh.....is neurological. Which should indicate it is not a recommended activity without considering the risk verses the reward. The people that glorify it and glamorize it may skate by as poster children for the cause. If there is a reward, don't pass it off as without want/dependency and where that may lead when a user sets out to return for more. You are the rat in your own lab test.

Having a beer or 3 over several hours does not make me a hypocrite! Nor does brewing my own. The point is the unique style flavor and technique not seeking a buzz.

That being said, we live in a democracy. If laws are passed by a majority so be it. Provided the heavy tax burden covers all the casualties and complications like alcohol and tobacco. Comparing pot to coffee is a joke.....unless it's that mega jitter Starbucks brand. :eek:

DC

Most people have probably seen this by now, but it seems to fit in here aptly!

Wood Spider

You searched around quite an bit. :)

I happen to think it is stupid to indulge in the narcotic drugs, amphetamines and cannabinoids. But I think it is stupider to outlaw them. All that happens then is that an opportunity is created for a criminal element to supply the demand. And make no mistake the demand will be there. If some idiot wants to burn his or her brains out on their drug of choice why should I care, and why should my tax dollars be wasted trying to stop them.

You searched around quite an bit. :)

I happen to think it is stupid to indulge in the narcotic drugs, amphetamines and cannabinoids. But I think it is stupider to outlaw them. All that happens then is that an opportunity is created for a criminal element to supply the demand. And make no mistake the demand will be there. If some idiot wants to burn his or her brains out on their drug of choice why should I care, and why should my tax dollars be wasted trying to stop them.

Over centuries civilization has brought for a few cannons of truth in governance. Tax things you want less of, subsidize things you want more of and those you absolutely want stopped you criminalize and punish severely.

In todays America criminal behavior is just another taxable called fines. Those in prison have a better existence than those who are free in third world countries.

Criminal element organizes gambling / govt organizes gambling.
Criminal element scams booze / govt legalizes and taxes
Criminal element scams dope / govt legalizes and taxes?

I think I see a pattern. Either was the tax payer foots the bill for enforcement or regulation. The real question is, WHAT if the "idiot" you are talking about who wants to burn his or her brains out on their drug of choice turns out to be your son or daughter? And what if they must turn to crime or prostitution to support the habit? Or get themselves mutilated or killed in the pursuit or use of junk?

Speaking out both side of you a$$ isn't becoming. Pick a stance and stay there. Or is it just another excuse to attack someone? You really should seek out a professional!

I didn't search, I new it was there and found them in contention. Thanks for clarifying your total view. I can appreciate that point in full.

What Jhowelb brought up, that technically help seal the fate of prohibition and the cost to police it, but turned it into a revenue stream also concerns me some. The state becoming the dealer for all sin tax far and above the cost to cover the afflictions brought on by their own potentially deadly products while often ignoring the result is not much better than the street thug feeding his own habit with the profits.

At the same time, the FDA or some other safety agency will pull minimally dangerous products off the market in the blink of an eye for very few casualties that often get proven the fault of the user or hyped. IE red M&M's and at one time silly putty. One story I read on a baby car seat was being push as unsafe was by one manufacturers competition forcing it into the recall system by shipping the safety counsel intentionally broken units.

DC

Profession is no indicator of intelligence.
<< Your being an ex policeman is certainly a proof of that. >>

It's your judgment that is suspect IMO. << yes your opinion >>

Find someone else to try to convince about the benefits of using dope. I have no interest in whether your life goes up in smoke or not.

<< It seems that your lifestyle choice has left you in wonderful health. >>

Excuse me while I inhale a lungfull of delicious fresh air and fully oxygenate my blood, ahhh now my fully charged hemoglobin is feeding my brain and my thoughts are now clear. Exhale, yes I see a sick, lonely old man playing "king of the hill", attacking anyone who does not agree with him. So sad.

Yes I've tried cannabis. It wasn't the evil demon I had been told it was. Haven't smoked (anything) for decades but cannabis did have a long term effect on me.
It made me realise that other so-called, self-evident truths that had been fed to me may also be suspect and so I learned to think for myself.

.1... and those you absolutely want stopped you criminalize and punish severely.

2....Those in prison have a better existence than those who are free in third world countries.

3Criminal element scams dope / govt legalizes and taxes?

4WHAT if the "idiot" you are talking about who wants to burn his or her brains out on their drug of choice turns out to be your son or daughter? And what if they must turn to crime or prostitution to support the habit? Or get themselves mutilated or killed in the pursuit or use of junk?

5Speaking out both side of you a$$ isn't becoming. Pick a stance and stay there. Or is it just another excuse to attack someone?.....

1 It hasn't worked, and probably causes more collateral damage to society and families when a family member becomes involved in either side of the drug issue, either as a pusher or as a addict, than legalizing the substances. You do not get sellers of lawful compounds shooting each other in the streets and killing innocent bystanders.

2 Not surprising, look at all the money spent on prisons, your tax money! And to what end; the demand for illicit drugs has not been reduced, and the supply not significantly curtailed.

3 Why not? It is a tax you will not pay and I will not pay.

4 That is a family matter, and much easier to deal with if the family doesn't have to worry about the legal consequences of the problem or having some 'enforcer' come to collect a debt or something.

5 How so am I speaking out of both sides? It is possible if you delve through my posts that sometimes I have used the 'devil's advocate' approach to try and get someone to respond but my stance is pretty consistent; it must be, you don't seem to find anything to agree with. And I am not attacking someone, I am disagreeing with other opinions; and I have not had to resort to insulting retoric in any of my posts.

....Yes I've tried cannabis. It wasn't the evil demon I had been told it was. Haven't smoked (anything) for decades but cannabis did have a long term effect on me.
It made me realise that other so-called, self-evident truths that had been fed to me may also be suspect and so I learned to think for myself.

This is so true. One big problem with illicit drugs that has two sides is that there are some that have been demonized inaccurately when in fact most people can use them without any overt symptoms or harm; marijuana and heroin are two. Others are really bad such as crystal meth and crack cocaine. So when some naive young teenager tries a joint and finds they don't turn into a fiend they are easy prey for some smooth operator to convince them to try others.

<< It seems that your lifestyle choice has left you in wonderful health. >>

Excuse me while I inhale a lungfull of delicious fresh air and fully oxygenate my blood, ahhh now my fully charged hemoglobin is feeding my brain and my thoughts are now clear. Exhale, yes I see a sick, lonely old man playing "king of the hill", attacking anyone who does not agree with him. So sad.

Yes I've tried cannabis. It wasn't the evil demon I had been told it was. Haven't smoked (anything) for decades but cannabis did have a long term effect on me.
It made me realise that other so-called, self-evident truths that had been fed to me may also be suspect and so I learned to think for myself.

There is anecdotal evidence on both sides of the fence. There are some new studies (source was in Denmark) that show medical consequences but not significantly more or less than cigarettes, with a couple of exceptions where it is much less risky than smoking tobacco, so you get down to how does it effect society. Mostly the criminalization of it has been harmful, not the actual drug. Criminalizing it has brought up a subculture that exposes people to harder drugs, and during the 70's it was often unintentional on the end users part, PCP etc. Pot has been called the great un-motivator for good reason also. I know a lot of successful people do use it, but a lot more that use it don't live up to their potential and end up contributing less to society than they could, to their own detriment largely. Society always needs "ditch diggers". I've lost a few friends that while in high school and even at the start of college had enviable grades in various disciplines and now work what are basically subsistence level jobs, the proverbial ditch diggers. I also know a couple of people that are highly successful and hold down high level jobs that use but they are the minority. What really surprises me is the number of people that don't outgrow it and become adults. When I went through my rebel without a clue stage I had long hair, ate mushrooms and dropped acid, but eventually I had to grow up and join society and honestly miss it not one bit. A little different but basically the same juvenile motivation.
Medicinally I don't see how it is more effective than the chemically pure versions that have been tested, other than of course those are therapeutically effective levels that don't get you stoned. There is a mental dependency that some people experience on the other hand, a self medication type situation. Unlike another drug used this way, alcohol, at least it doesn't cause you to drive through town risking everyone's life and limb. Still driving under the influence of pot should be treated criminally, impaired judgment and cars don't mix but it seems to be a lesser danger than driving drunk. A road side test would be needed, but I'm sure that is easy enough to come up with.
Personally, for rather personal reasons, I don't associate with people that use it, at least to my knowledge that is. Decriminalization would free up a fair amount of prison space, drug enforcement resources and generate tax monies from usage taxes like cigarettes do. Just as it is illegal to produce alcohol in excess of personal usage quantities the same could be done with pot. Age limits can be implemented and some of the new tax money could be used like it is with cigarettes for early education, not propaganda mind but actual education.
IMO prohibition of pot is akin to the prohibition of alcohol, and for the record organized crime syndicates that came to power from prohibition are still active, even though the FBI did land a major blow when they got Gotti and some of his associates. Go to Warwick RI if you doubt it. Ending prohibition didn't break Al Capone the IRS did. Jhowelb your point about a son or daughter turning to crime to support a habit isn't applicable to pot users. Pot isn't that expensive (cop friends as sources) and it doesn't cause withdrawals like "hard drugs" do that inspire junkies to crime. No one comes across as suggesting legalizing all drugs, which as you pointed out would be a disaster. But to address your point if it was legalized and my daughter started using it in the future I'd do my best to get her to see the reasons for stopping, but hopefully I will do my job as a parent so she wouldn't have a great deal of interest in it, or any drug, in this hypothetical future. A lot of these problems we face now in society could have been prevented by responsible parenting.
Just my opinion. That and 1.50 will buy you a small coffee so take it as you will.

In the past on food, SNIP

Love that video, I've got a copy of it on my personal PC. "crack spiders bi**#" LOL

I refuse to farther debate the most delicious way to commit suicide!
There is a reason it is called dope.


Noun 1.
dope - street names for marijuana
gage, green goddess, sens, sess, Mary Jane, locoweed, skunk, weed, grass, smoke, pot, cannabis, ganja, marihuana, marijuana - the most commonly used illicit drug; considered a soft drug, it consists of the dried leaves of the hemp plant; smoked or chewed for euphoric effect

2.
dope - an ignorant or foolish person, boob, booby, pinhead, dumbbell, dummy simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense

Another dope!

http://www.break.com/index/crazy-kid-does-pull-ups-off-crane.html

http://www.break.com/index/crazy-kid-does-pull-ups-off-crane.html

I refuse to farther debate the most delicious way to commit suicide!
There is a reason it is called dope.


Noun 1.
dope - street names for marijuana
gage, green goddess, sens, sess, Mary Jane, locoweed, skunk, weed, grass, smoke, pot, cannabis, ganja, marihuana, marijuana - the most commonly used illicit drug; considered a soft drug, it consists of the dried leaves of the hemp plant; smoked or chewed for euphoric effect

2.
dope - an ignorant or foolish person, boob, booby, pinhead, dumbbell, dummy simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense


Brilliant. You are a most excellent debater. I am not worthy

<< It seems that your lifestyle choice has left you in wonderful health. >>

Excuse me while I inhale a lungfull of delicious fresh air and fully oxygenate my blood, ahhh now my fully charged hemoglobin is feeding my brain and my thoughts are now clear. Exhale, yes I see a sick, lonely old man playing "king of the hill", attacking anyone who does not agree with him. So sad.

Yes I've tried cannabis. It wasn't the evil demon I had been told it was. Haven't smoked (anything) for decades but cannabis did have a long term effect on me.
It made me realise that other so-called, self-evident truths that had been fed to me may also be suspect and so I learned to think for myself.


Your remarks are intended to inflict pain and anguish for no other purpose. They indicate clearly for the entire world to see what a small, insecure, vicious, spiteful, cold, selfish, pitiable individual you really are.

They missed the mark by at least a country mile and have had no effect on me. Allow me to illustrate for you.

Sick? Yes, I inhaled a mixture of agent orange and other toxins while defending your freedom and that is what affected my lungs. (You are very welcome, I expect and have received no thanks for the job I did. In fact I deferred the medals that were offered.) This is a fact that has long since been resolved in my view of the world. No pain there!

Lonely? Hardly! I am surrounded by a large loving family who all think I can walk on water and enough friends to fill a large convention hall. It's hard top find time for things due to the phone calls and visitors coming by and attending the events to which I am invited.

Old man? Guilty! The experience I've gained in those years have given me the wisdom to see right through the transparent facade you have erected to disguise your own short comings.

King of the Hill? Possibly, but I have earned the privilege of voicing my opinion and will do so as long as I choose. If that offends you then in the words of Wxyz "tough nuggies"!

Know one thing for certain, far from being hurt by your remarks I am sitting here laughing at you!

Go ahead, smoke another one, Bro!

The Sun Also Sets

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Climate Change: Not every scientist is part of Al Gore's mythical "consensus." Scientists worried about a new ice age seek funding to better observe something bigger than your SUV — the sun.

Related Topics: Global Warming

Back in 1991, before Al Gore first shouted that the Earth was in the balance, the Danish Meteorological Institute released a study using data that went back centuries that showed that global temperatures closely tracked solar cycles.

To many, those data were convincing. Now, Canadian scientists are seeking additional funding for more and better "eyes" with which to observe our sun, which has a bigger impact on Earth's climate than all the tailpipes and smokestacks on our planet combined.

And they're worried about global cooling, not warming.

Kenneth Tapping, a solar researcher and project director for Canada's National Research Council, is among those looking at the sun for evidence of an increase in sunspot activity.

Solar activity fluctuates in an 11-year cycle. But so far in this cycle, the sun has been disturbingly quiet. The lack of increased activity could signal the beginning of what is known as a Maunder Minimum, an event which occurs every couple of centuries and can last as long as a century.

Such an event occurred in the 17th century. The observation of sunspots showed extraordinarily low levels of magnetism on the sun, with little or no 11-year cycle.

This solar hibernation corresponded with a period of bitter cold that began around 1650 and lasted, with intermittent spikes of warming, until 1715. Frigid winters and cold summers during that period led to massive crop failures, famine and death in Northern Europe.

Tapping reports no change in the sun's magnetic field so far this cycle and warns that if the sun remains quiet for another year or two, it may indicate a repeat of that period of drastic cooling of the Earth, bringing massive snowfall and severe weather to the Northern Hemisphere.

Tapping oversees the operation of a 60-year-old radio telescope that he calls a "stethoscope for the sun." But he and his colleagues need better equipment.

In Canada, where radio-telescopic monitoring of the sun has been conducted since the end of World War II, a new instrument, the next-generation solar flux monitor, could measure the sun's emissions more rapidly and accurately.

As we have noted many times, perhaps the biggest impact on the Earth's climate over time has been the sun.

For instance, researchers at the Max Planck Institute for Solar Research in Germany report the sun has been burning more brightly over the last 60 years, accounting for the 1 degree Celsius increase in Earth's temperature over the last 100 years.

R. Timothy Patterson, professor of geology and director of the Ottawa-Carleton Geoscience Center of Canada's Carleton University, says that "CO2 variations show little correlation with our planet's climate on long, medium and even short time scales."

Rather, he says, "I and the first-class scientists I work with are consistently finding excellent correlations between the regular fluctuations of the sun and earthly climate. This is not surprising. The sun and the stars are the ultimate source of energy on this planet."

Patterson, sharing Tapping's concern, says: "Solar scientists predict that, by 2020, the sun will be starting into its weakest Schwabe cycle of the past two centuries, likely leading to unusually cool conditions on Earth."

"Solar activity has overpowered any effect that CO2 has had before, and it most likely will again," Patterson says. "If we were to have even a medium-sized solar minimum, we could be looking at a lot more bad effects than 'global warming' would have had."

In 2005, Russian astronomer Khabibullo Abdusamatov made some waves — and not a few enemies in the global warming "community" — by predicting that the sun would reach a peak of activity about three years from now, to be accompanied by "dramatic changes" in temperatures.

A Hoover Institution Study a few years back examined historical data and came to a similar conclusion.

"The effects of solar activity and volcanoes are impossible to miss. Temperatures fluctuated exactly as expected, and the pattern was so clear that, statistically, the odds of the correlation existing by chance were one in 100," according to Hoover fellow Bruce Berkowitz.

The study says that "try as we might, we simply could not find any relationship between industrial activity, energy consumption and changes in global temperatures."

The study concludes that if you shut down all the world's power plants and factories, "there would not be much effect on temperatures."

But if the sun shuts down, we've got a problem. It is the sun, not the Earth, that's hanging in the balance

<< It seems that your lifestyle choice has left you in wonderful health. >>

Excuse me while I inhale a lungfull of delicious fresh air and fully oxygenate my blood, ahhh now my fully charged hemoglobin is feeding my brain and my thoughts are now clear. Exhale, yes I see a sick, lonely old man playing "king of the hill", attacking anyone who does not agree with him. So sad.

Yes I've tried cannabis. It wasn't the evil demon I had been told it was. Haven't smoked (anything) for decades but cannabis did have a long term effect on me.
It made me realise that other so-called, self-evident truths that had been fed to me may also be suspect and so I learned to think for myself.

Wow, turning a rant on someone's personal health condition that you know nothing about is a bit uncivilized and not something I'd expect as a defensive posture from you DR.

So if there were no demons, what part of its evil did you come to consider that helped you decide to walk away from it decades ago but still become defensive about other opinions today? Seems to me you'ld share more of the why nots, than with defiance to make it out to be no big deal. While that may be no big deal for you, someone else may see your points as a valid risk and fall hard giving your no big deal a whirl.

There have been many good points in the pro's and con's along with reasonable debate for a resolution to the core problem besides the current approach. Most people around the world know the dangers of inviting a monkey on their backs and the troubles that go along with it. Foresight is better than a late short sighted epiphany any day. By then the monkeys learned how to knock on the door and the strength to resist the reward is of little interest. It's only a hit away, hit away, hit away.

DC

Your remarks are intended to inflict pain and anguish for no other purpose. They indicate clearly for the entire world to see what a small, insecure, vicious, spiteful, cold, selfish, pitiable individual you really are.

Excuse me! you're the one who invited me to climb a funeral pyre and offered to light it. I guess you have no respect for the lives of those who disagree with you.

They missed the mark by at least a country mile and have had no effect on me. Allow me to illustrate for you.

Sick? Yes, I inhaled a mixture of agent orange and other toxins while defending your freedom and that is what affected my lungs. (You are very welcome, I expect and have received no thanks for the job I did. In fact I deferred the medals that were offered.) This is a fact that has long since been resolved in my view of the world. No pain there!

Sorry for your misfortune, the oxygen remark was an allusion to your oxygen starved brain

Lonely? Hardly! I am surrounded by a large loving family who all think I can walk on water and enough friends to fill a large convention hall. It's hard top find time for things due to the phone calls and visitors coming by and attending the events to which I am invited.

You certainly have time to be the most prodigious poster in this thread.

Old man? Guilty! The experience I've gained in those years have given me the wisdom to see right through the transparent facade you have erected to disguise your own short comings.

Hmmm the tone here reminds me of a friend who is a retired US Marine Gunnery sergeant... pretty smart guy except when blinded by his predudices.


King of the Hill? Possibly, but I have earned the privilege of voicing my opinion and will do so as long as I choose. If that offends you then in the words of Wxyz "tough nuggies"!

"King of the Hill is a kiddy game where a child attempts to defend a small mound by pushing off the other kids.

Know one thing for certain, far from being hurt by your remarks I am sitting here laughing at you!

Go ahead, smoke another one, Bro!

Your last statement illustrates the reason for this debate... you don't read.
I clearly mentioned that I haven't smoked in years. Did you read the information about the truth of cannabis' effects, I guess not

The Sun Also Sets

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:20 PM PT




Now this is interesting. By the way I assume you paid the $250 fee to INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY for the permission to post this article as per their copyright notice.

There is no debate.
I read just fine.
I think you are probably lying about using. (Hypocrisy?)

Wow, turning a rant on someone's personal health condition that you know nothing about is a bit uncivilized and not something I'd expect as a defensive posture from you DR.

Shuffles feet, well yeah, DC, that was a bit rash. I did lash out and it was from the demons of pot. A long time ago my young teenage friend was incarcerated for the crime of possessing a small amount of cannabis. THEY locked him up and I guess I still hold those with a prohibitionist mindset responsible. He hurt no one and he was locked up; for two years; with real criminals

So if there were no demons, what part of its evil did you come to consider that helped you decide to walk away from it decades ago but still become defensive about other opinions today? Seems to me you'ld share more of the why nots, than with defiance to make it out to be no big deal. While that may be no big deal for you, someone else may see your points as a valid risk and fall hard giving your no big deal a whirl.

Nothing wrong with pot but when I had kids of my own there was no time for smoking pot or brewing beer. Guess I never got back into either hobby but later took up electronics and CNC instead. So little time so much to do.

There have been many good points in the pro's and con's along with reasonable debate for a resolution to the core problem besides the current approach. Most people around the world know the dangers of inviting a monkey on their backs and the troubles that go along with it. Foresight is better than a late short sighted epiphany any day. By then the monkeys learned how to knock on the door and the strength to resist the reward is of little interest. It's only a hit away, hit away, hit away.

DC

The monkey on back metaphor usually applies to a physical, heroin addiction;
cannabis is less addictive than coffee. Try giving up caffeine for a while you'll see.

The monkey on back metaphor usually applies to a physical, heroin addiction;
cannabis is less addictive than coffee. Try giving up caffeine for a while you'll see.


It is possible to rationalize anything you wish to yourself and you will buy it. The rest of the world may have other standards to measure you by.

Many different species and tribes of monkeys, some get spanked others just run wild. Some folks just interpret words on a scale separate from yours.

Caffeine and heroine, yes of course, I see the comparison! Isn't there a bulletin board service for junkies somewhere?

It is possible to rationalize anything you wish to yourself and you will buy it. The rest of the world may have other standards to measure you by.

Many different species and tribes of monkeys, some get spanked others just run wild. Some folks just interpret words on a scale separate from yours.

Caffeine and heroine, yes of course, I see the comparison! Isn't there a bulletin board service for junkies somewhere?

My favourite heroine is Joan of Arc, I guess you were spankin yer monkey when you posted this.

My favourite heroine is Joan of Arc.....

What about Xena Warrior Princess?:D

Go away kid, you bother me..................

Then there's ..... BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER. :idea: :nono: :D

Go away kid, you bother me..................

All things considered I'd rather you were in Philidelphia

Errrh,

Any chance of stopping this??

You are all old enough, and intelligent enough to stop trading your insults in public. I have absolutely no problem with a bit of random nastiness, but it is getting relentless, continuous, and tedious.

Please, kindly, refrain. There are big issues involved, but you will never agree to disagree. Why prolong the agony???

Best wishes,

Martin

Errrh,

Any chance of stopping this??

You are all old enough, and intelligent enough to stop trading your insults in public. I have absolutely no problem with a bit of random nastiness, but it is getting relentless, continuous, and tedious.

Please, kindly, refrain. There are big issues involved, but you will never agree to disagree. Why prolong the agony???

Best wishes,

Martin

You are absolutely correct, Martin, and with that objective in mind I for one shall ignore any farther comments made by the miscreant regardless of subject and moreover I shall not address legal or illegal use of any substance.

The whole subject is annoying, repulsive and boring.

Enough said, chapter closed!!!

Shuffles feet, well yeah, DC, that was a bit rash. I did lash out and it was from the demons of pot. A long time ago my young teenage friend was incarcerated for the crime of possessing a small amount of cannabis. THEY locked him up and I guess I still hold those with a prohibitionist mindset responsible. He hurt no one and he was locked up; for two years; with real criminals


Nothing wrong with pot but when I had kids of my own there was no time for smoking pot or brewing beer. Guess I never got back into either hobby but later took up electronics and CNC instead. So little time so much to do.

The monkey on back metaphor usually applies to a physical, heroin addiction;
cannabis is less addictive than coffee. Try giving up caffeine for a while you'll see.

Well, I can appreciate those demons and the resentment in that. There is very little crime associated with the sustance use itself, other than stupidity that often follows use. One kid I grew up with unbeknowenced to me was growing some out in the woods behind his house. While his Parents were on vacation and I was asked to look after him, I get a call to come get his motorcycle from impound. The dummy decided to transport the plants in broad daylight on the back of the motor bike and wouldn't ya know it, a cop just happens to pull up to a light behind him. He was lucky to be under age, but me as a temporary guardian, I could have hung the little bast-turd!

I'll grant you that there is the rare brilliant mind that takes it on as a recreational sedative, but the propensity of embibing people I have come across are as dumb as a post and have no plans of getting their chit together. The more and longer they use, the less motivation they have. Saying there is nothing wrong with it IMHO is equivalant to saying there is nothing wrong with guns. In the wrong hands everything can be a problem. In that regard there is no way to make the case of who should or should not.....until they prove responsible otherwise. Which may be self fulfilling at any rate? LOL!

I think there is more to it with you having Children and setting a good example. Just as Shotout put it. Good pareneting takes sins of the father out of the picture. Not giving it a place in your life seems evidence enough that it could interfere without you saying as much.

If an intoxicating substance places a desire for a repeat encounter, it is a monkey none the less. I think putting coffee in the same catagory is a sham, since it doesn't make one dumber than they already are. I bet on average I only drink about a 1/4 cup once my day starts. Of course I don't think I am any brighter after that either........I enjoy the beverage part, not that I am using it as a pick-me-up or just don't consider it premarily for that effect as a drug is intended.

DC

Errrh,

Any chance of stopping this??

You are all old enough, and intelligent enough to stop trading your insults in public. I have absolutely no problem with a bit of random nastiness, but it is getting relentless, continuous, and tedious.

Please, kindly, refrain. There are big issues involved, but you will never agree to disagree. Why prolong the agony???

Best wishes,

Martin

Dear Martin,

Thank you for your diplomatic intervention. I don't mind the nastiness or being relentless or continuous but I refuse to be tedious. :)

'nuff said

regards Gary

Lorks,

Both jhowelb and Dr-Motion seem to be on-side.....

I'm thinking of starting a sect promoting Universal Love. Bank account details for those wishing to contribute will follow shortly. Dig deep for a Good Cause.[ Me,actually]

Best wishes,
Martin

Well, I can appreciate those demons and the resentment in that. There is very little crime associated with the sustance use itself, other than stupidity that often follows use. One kid I grew up with unbeknowenced to me was growing some out in the woods behind his house. While his Parents were on vacation and I was asked to look after him, I get a call to come get his motorcycle from impound. The dummy decided to transport the plants in broad daylight on the back of the motor bike and wouldn't ya know it, a cop just happens to pull up to a light behind him. He was lucky to be under age, but me as a temporary guardian, I could have hung the little bast-turd!

I'll grant you that there is the rare brilliant mind that takes it on as a recreational sedative, but the propensity of embibing people I have come across are as dumb as a post and have no plans of getting their chit together. The more and longer they use, the less motivation they have. Saying there is nothing wrong with it IMHO is equivalant to saying there is nothing wrong with guns. In the wrong hands everything can be a problem. In that regard there is no way to make the case of who should or should not.....until they prove responsible otherwise. Which may be self fulfilling at any rate? LOL!

I think there is more to it with you having Children and setting a good example. Just as Shotout put it. Good pareneting takes sins of the father out of the picture. Not giving it a place in your life seems evidence enough that it could interfere without you saying as much.

If an intoxicating substance places a desire for a repeat encounter, it is a monkey none the less. I think putting coffee in the same catagory is a sham, since it doesn't make one dumber than they already are. I bet on average I only drink about a 1/4 cup once my day starts. Of course I don't think I am any brighter after that either........I enjoy the beverage part, not that I am using it as a pick-me-up or just don't consider it premarily for that effect as a drug is intended.

DC


Well, sex is addictive, sports are addictive, eating is addictive, geez even posting in these forums is addictive... but none of these addictions rule or destroy your life. (well maybe over-eating)

I would never consider trying to convince someone to try cannabis but I don't consider it is right for someone to say they are not allowed to try it of their own accord.

Those dumb chits are all around us, they sit and watch tv and never even try to build a CNC machine. LOL . Anything will unmotivate then, be it alcohol or pot or couch-potato, sports fan syndrome.

Giving up smoking pot and brewing beer was more a matter of freeing up time for my kids than setting a role model. I'd much rather catch my teenagers smoking pot than sneaking beer. Alcohol is so much more dangerous; expecially at that age.

Then there's ..... BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER. :idea: :nono: :D

Hi DR-Motion,
Buffy eh, never caught the show but heard she was a fox.
I'd like to go off topic for a moment, did anyone catch the nightly news with Brian Williams? Seems there was bit on ethanol and biodiesel as contributors to greenhouse gases. I saw some of it but I don't fathom how this could be so? Geof, you have any idea what they could be talking about?
Thanks,
xyzdonna

..... Geof, you have any idea what they could be talking about?
Thanks,
xyzdonna

Go down to your library and dig up a copy of New Scientist a few weeks back and you will find an article related to this. Basically it is that the CO2 from clearing forest land to grow the crops for ethanol and palm oil for biodiesel far outweighs any benefit from these fuel sources. I think it is another case of TANSTAAFL.

P.S. Could be a few months back, time flies these days.

By the way did you read the one back a few posts mentioning the Maunder Minimum, etc. Same Maunder Minimum I have referred to and been blown off.

Well, sex is addictive, sports are addictive, eating is addictive, geez even posting in these forums is addictive... but none of these addictions rule or destroy your life. (well maybe over-eating)

I would never consider trying to convince someone to try cannabis but I don't consider it is right for someone to say they are not allowed to try it of their own accord.

Those dumb chits are all around us, they sit and watch tv and never even try to build a CNC machine. LOL . Anything will unmotivate then, be it alcohol or pot or couch-potato, sports fan syndrome.

Giving up smoking pot and brewing beer was more a matter of freeing up time for my kids than setting a role model. I'd much rather catch my teenagers smoking pot than sneaking beer. Alcohol is so much more dangerous; expecially at that age.

We are talking about mind altering subtance use and the potential for abuse or interference with lifes benefits not -philias. The majority of users are convinced/recruited via friends, not typically on their own accord. The unmotivated do not always have a good role model to involve them in activities that develope enthusiasm and interests in hobbies or vocations. Letting them be influenced by the wrong crowd or poor parenting also spells trouble. Chances are pretty good they they become the wrong crowd influencing others on the same path.

We didn't need to sneak beer. It was available but it was generic.......eeeewwww! I can't stand soda so it is water, ice tea or beer.

That is very strange in our opposites. I'd be just crushed if I caught one of my children under the influence of any street drugs. Being young once myself and seeing the ignorant devistation of many I grew up with on that destructive path starting with pot, was scary enough. I'd rather learn my lessons through the lens of the obvious than experience it for myself. I heard the XYZ-BS before of "don't knock it till ya try it". One look at these character punk a$$ degenerates and that was in no way an attractive lifestyle to say the least. Certainly was enough impression for me to pass and the image sticks today<Shudders!>. LOL!

Thanks for the discussion though. Some of it was enlightening on all sides.

DC

Go down to your library and dig up a copy of New Scientist a few weeks back and you will find an article related to this. Basically it is that the CO2 from clearing forest land to grow the crops for ethanol and palm oil for biodiesel far outweighs any benefit from these fuel sources. I think it is another case of TANSTAAFL.

P.S. Could be a few months back, time flies these days.

By the way did you read the one back a few posts mentioning the Maunder Minimum, etc. Same Maunder Minimum I have referred to and been blown off.

I posted about this subject way back in #1003. Shows how well some pay attention or would that be a due indicator to short term memory lapses? LOL!

Biofuel Mandates are thought to contribute (http://www.openmarket.org/2007/11/12/biofuel-mandates-cause-global-warming-scientists-say/)



DC

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2008-02-08-ethanol-study_N.htm?csp=34

Posted today

So a short term pollution and damage traded for long term reduction in fossil fuel use.
Equals some how in the long term ethanol bad.

Still think my greenie powered mice wheels are the way to go.
( could put the keys to a prius just out of reach)
It will give then something productive to do .
It will save the planet from GW. Who can be against that ?

Maunder Minimum ?

Thanks
Knew about little ice age ,but didn't know lack of sunspots could have been the cause .

Interesting

I posted about this subject way back in #1003. Shows how well some pay attention or would that be a due indicator to short term memory lapses? LOL!

Biofuel Mandates are thought to contribute (http://http://www.openmarket.org/2007/11/12/biofuel-mandates-cause-global-warming-scientists-say/)

DC

Your link gives a "Bad Gateway" message; DNS not found.

Your link gives a "Bad Gateway" message; DNS not found.

Fixed it......sowy!

Go down to your library and dig up a copy of New Scientist a few weeks back and you will find an article related to this. Basically it is that the CO2 from clearing forest land to grow the crops for ethanol and palm oil for biodiesel far outweighs any benefit from these fuel sources. I think it is another case of TANSTAAFL.

P.S. Could be a few months back, time flies these days.

By the way did you read the one back a few posts mentioning the Maunder Minimum, etc. Same Maunder Minimum I have referred to and been blown off.

Hi Geof,
Quote you:Go down to your library and dig up a copy of New Scientist a few weeks back and you will find an article related to this. Basically it is that the CO2 from clearing forest land to grow the crops for ethanol and palm oil for biodiesel far outweighs any benefit from these fuel sources. I think it is another case of TANSTAAFL.

Me: Thanks, I will. I have no idea what TANSTAAFL means. So you're saying there is no hope. Biodiesel even at 5,000 gal per acre per year won't save the earth? Or perhaps it is a short term thing this warming, perhaps if there are less sunspots for awhile we can get our icecaps back? I do hope so.
Thanks Geof,
xyzdonna

... Thanks, I will. I have no idea what TANSTAAFL means. So you're saying there is no hope. Biodiesel even at 5,000 gal per acre per year won't save the earth? Or perhaps it is a short term thing this warming, perhaps if there are less sunspots for awhile we can get our icecaps back? I do hope so.
Thanks Geof,
xyzdonna

Ther Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

There is no hope of reducing CO2 emissions in the near term; up to ten years.

There is no hope of significantly reducing CO2 emissions without totally disrupting the world economy.

There is no hope of feeding the existing world population without the use of fossil fuels.

There is no hope of substituting bio-fuels for fossil fuels.

There is no hope of substituting any other energy source for for fossil fuels.

There is no hope of preventing the effects of global warming.

There is no choice but to adapt.

Incidentally I could not find my copy with the article I referred to but I did find two others:

NewScientist, September 23-29, 2006. "Fuels gold: Empty promises of the biofuel revolution".

NewScientist, September 16-22, 2006. "GLOBAL WARMING: Will the sun come to our rescue?"

Ther Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

There is no hope of reducing CO2 emissions in the near term; up to ten years.

There is no hope of significantly reducing CO2 emissions without totally disrupting the world economy.

There is no hope of feeding the existing world population without the use of fossil fuels.

There is no hope of substituting bio-fuels for fossil fuels.

There is no hope of substituting any other energy source for for fossil fuels.

There is no hope of preventing the effects of global warming.

There is no choice but to adapt.

Incidentally I could not find my copy with the article I referred to but I did find two others:

NewScientist, September 23-29, 2006. "Fuels gold: Empty promises of the biofuel revolution".

NewScientist, September 16-22, 2006. "GLOBAL WARMING: Will the sun come to our rescue?"

Or the same as a Mother earth groupie bumper sticker once said;

Gas, Grass or a$$.....no one rides for free!

DC

Or the same as a Mother earth groupie bumper sticker once said;

Gas, Grass or a$$.....no one rides for free!

DC

GGOANORFF. It is pretty close to equivalent.

I remember first encountering TANSTAAFL in a science fiction short story years ago called "And Then There Were None" so I Googled this phrase and found this description:

'And Then There Were None' by Eric Frank Russell. Anarchy in action - an excellent model of an anarchistic or free society in science-fiction form, written by Eric Frank Russell.

Following the link I found the full story here:

http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.htm

It is entertaining to read but it also has some interesting philosophy on an individual's responsibility to themself and to the society in which they live, and vice versa

The main link to the site is here and it has an eclectic collection of things.

http://www.abelard.org/choose/choose.htm

Including this one:

http://www.abelard.org/briefings/replacing_fossil_fuels.php

jhowelb you should really go there. I know you have taken an aversion, real or feigned, to my posts which I find ridiculous because on many topics we are on the same side of the fence. I think your approach is strident and defensive and I disagree with many of your opinions, but I do not think I have posted anything that can be fairly interpreted as a personal insult. Based on some of the opinions you have posted I think it is possible you might enjoy reading 'And Then There Were None'. It is difficult to do online becuase it is white text on a black background but it copies and pastes into NotePad without including any other stuff from the page.

Ther Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

There is no hope of reducing CO2 emissions in the near term; up to ten years.

There is no hope of significantly reducing CO2 emissions without totally disrupting the world economy.

There is no hope of feeding the existing world population without the use of fossil fuels.

There is no hope of substituting bio-fuels for fossil fuels.

There is no hope of substituting any other energy source for for fossil fuels.

There is no hope of preventing the effects of global warming.

There is no choice but to adapt.

Incidentally I could not find my copy with the article I referred to but I did find two others:

NewScientist, September 23-29, 2006. "Fuels gold: Empty promises of the biofuel revolution".

NewScientist, September 16-22, 2006. "GLOBAL WARMING: Will the sun come to our rescue?"

Hi Geof,
Not even nuclear?
xyzdonna

Hi Geof,
Not even nuclear?
xyzdonna

Not in the near term as a means of reducing CO2 emissions; go back and read my posts referring to lead times of at least ten years if nuclear plants were all approved and ready to build. Couple that with the CO2 pulse that would be created by their construction; specifically the cement requirement. Incidentally NewScientist, Jan 26 - Feb 1, 2008 has an article on "Green" concrete which states; 'Between 5 and 8 per cent of global CO2 emissions are the result of (Portland) cement production'. The ironic` thing is the article also has this byline referring to the "Green" concrete; 'It eats power station waste for breakfast - has E-crete got what it takes to replace ordinary concrete? So, in other words, you need your CO2 spewing, sulfur and oxides of nitrogen belching, fly-ash creating, coal based power stations to make the raw material for E-crete. And on reading the article it appears it does not have what it takes in either strength or durability to replace Portland cement based concrete.

And because you dreifted off away from the near term into longb term energy sources to fill in the gap left by depleted fossil fuel reserves: No, nuclear is not a panacea there either. Or at least simple nuclear using enriched uranium because that is not inexhaustable. Fast breeder reactors may come close but the sheer magnitude of what would be required is difficult to comprehend as possible.

The bottom line to me is that the two generations following us are going to have to adapt to any changes from global warming or cooling; they cannot be stopped. Past that, following generations will need to practise radical birth control to reduce the world population to a level that can be supported by renewable energy sources as prevailed four or five generations ago. If population is not brought down in time by natural attrition; i.e. a birth rate well below replacement levels then Mother Nature will apply retroactive birth control in a large way.

GGOANORFF. .......

jhowelb you should really go there. I know you have taken an aversion, real or feigned, to my posts which I find ridiculous because on many topics we are on the same side of the fence. I think your approach is strident and defensive and I disagree with many of your opinions, but I do not think I have posted anything that can be fairly interpreted as a personal insult. Based on some of the opinions you have posted I think it is possible you might enjoy reading 'And Then There Were None'. It is difficult to do online becuase it is white text on a black background but it copies and pastes into NotePad without including any other stuff from the page.

Ever hear the old saw about catching more flies with sugar than vinegar?
Same applies to people. Perhaps if you had not constantly found excuses to attack me, oh yes...on a personal level, then..................

But now................
Too late! You never get a second chance to make a good first impression!

Ever hear the old saw about catching more flies with sugar than vinegar?
Same applies to people. Perhaps if you had not constantly found excuses to attack me, oh yes...on a personal level, then..................

But now................
Too late! You never get a second chance to make a good first impression!

Okay if you go back you will find I have never attacked you on a personal level, I have agreed with and disagreed with your opinions; so yes I have attacked your opinions, and it is likely I have also expressed disagreement with your attitude. You on the other hand have sent a great deal of vituperative rhetoric my way.

Okay if you go back you will find I have never attacked you on a personal level, I have agreed with and disagreed with your opinions; so yes I have attacked your opinions, and it is likely I have also expressed disagreement with your attitude. You on the other hand have sent a great deal of vituperative rhetoric my way.

An invitation to another pissing contest? Who attacked who, first and with the most vitriol?

No! Thank you.

I am quite capable of knowing when I've been attacked. Neither so I feel a need to prove anything to anyone.

Do you want to change the tone of the relationship? Change it with those thing you can control. Actions speak loudly. The printed word amounts to an act.

We shall see.

An invitation to another pissing contest? Who attacked who, first and with the most vitriol?

No! Thank you.

Okay let us see if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is:

You posted:[\B] "Spouse" is a technical term for someone too insignificant to warrant a title or name...

I posted "Nonsense; why don't you take a bit of time to read a dictionary. Spouse, Husband, Wife, are equivalent terms."[\I]

I do not consider this a personal attack; it is disagreement with your interpretation of the meaning of a word.

[B]You replied[I]'What part of your insufferable ego makes you think...

....Or is it still your unpleasant personality quirk of always trying to put someone down in order to feel superior yourself shining through again?....'

I think this is a personal attack. It is not that much different to me writing: 'You ****** can't you read the dictionary and find the proper meaning for spouse?' with some insulting term in place of the *****.

I can probably find other examples from your responses to some of my posts.

Here is a challenge: Name your favorite Charity and I will send a money order for $1000.00, made out to cash (or bearer}, to an impartial adjudicator of my choice who I think will be acceptable to you. You do the same thing for my Charity to another impartial adjudicator of your choice who you expect will be acceptable to me. The two adjudicators then select a third and the three scan your posts and mine and see who started what and who entered into a pissing match with who.

You may identify to the adjudicators, and to me, any posts of mine that have vitriolic attacks on you and I may do the same for your posts.

After a majority decision has been reached between the adjudicators both checks are forwarded to the appropriate Charity. With the offending post(s) being identified.

And I will stick my neck out here at the risk I may be being presumptuous naming my choice in public; I think that Mariss should be acceptable to you if he would agree to enter this dispute as an adjudicator.

Just as a matter of interest... do any of you hover your mouse cursor over the little green square at the top right of each person's post and compare the popup blurb associated with that poster? Who decides what the message should be?

Repeating myself..............

An invitation to another pissing contest? Who attacked who, first and with the most vitriol?

No! Thank you.

Okay let us see if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is:


Hi Geof,

This reminds me of a little blues ditty:

Sitting there yakkin’ right in my face
Coming on like you own the place
If silence was golden
You couldn’t raise a dime
Cause your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime

You’re quoting figures, you’re dropping names
You’re telling stories, you’re playing games
You always laugh when things ain’t funny
You try to sound like you don’t need money
If talk was criminal, you’d lead a life of crime
Cause your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime

You know that life is short and talk is cheap
Don’t make promises that you can’t keep
If you don’t like the song I’m singing, just grin and bear it
All I can say is if the shoe fits wear it
If you must keep talking please can you make it rhyme
Cause your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime
Cause your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime
Cause your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime

Can't wait for the outcome

regards Gary

Hi Geof,

This reminds me of a little blues ditty:

Sitting there yakkin’ right in my face

snip

Cause your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime

Can't wait for the outcome

regards Gary

The outcome is right there above your post.

Just as a matter of interest... do any of you hover your mouse cursor over the little green square at the top right of each person's post and compare the popup blurb associated with that poster? Who decides what the message should be?

If you go to the Members List you will see a similar square in the Reputation column; it comes up with the same '...on a distinguished road...' comment. The comment stays the same if you click on Reputation so that members are listed in order of Reputation.

I suspect that it is a feature that has not been fully implemented on this site.

...............................

I am quite capable of knowing when I've been attacked. Neither do I feel a need to prove anything to anyone.

Do you want to change the tone of the relationship? Change it with those thing you can control. Actions speak loudly. The printed word amounts to an act.

We shall see.

Again repeating the second and also an important part of that statement.

Now, show us what you are made of.

Hmmm, yeah, I guess I didn't refresh my screen.

Well that's that then.

Ah well, it looks like the finances of my newly formed sect (post#1243) is going to be somewhat "sub-prime" for some time to come....

Best wishes,

Martin

Ah well, it looks like the finances of my newly formed sect (post#1243) is going to be somewhat "sub-prime" for some time to come....

Best wishes,

Martin


Tis true, alas! Bullies coming onto the schoolyard dragging knuckles aren't interested in congenial things.

As for my part, I get too much pleasure from all the other forums to risk censure telling some wise guy what for. It doesn't pay anything anyway and costs me nothing to let a so-and-so think he's won something. You can't have a decent cuss fight on line either.

So on ward and upward, all wanting a discussion.....speak!
Those wanting a fight, find someone else! I won't have a part in you silly game.

(Have you noticed, the real heavy weights have abandoned this thread?)

it comes up with the same '...on a distinguished road...' comment.
.

Well that's what yours says, so does mine, hey, Martin's does as well....

but ? LOL .... not everybody's

Again repeating the second and also an important part of that statement.

Now, show us what you are made of.

I don't understand this statement.

I made an offer to have our peers, one selected by me one selected by you with a third selected by the first two, make an impartial judgement as to whether I am guilty of posting personal attacks on you, or whether you are guilty of posting personal attacks on me. I figure that is showing what I am made of; I am willing to abide by the judgement of others. And I backed it up with hard cash. You appear to be unwilling to subject yourself to the same judgement.

Not in the near term as a means of reducing CO2 emissions; go back and read my posts referring to lead times of at least ten years if nuclear plants were all approved and ready to build. Couple that with the CO2 pulse that would be created by their construction; specifically the cement requirement. Incidentally NewScientist, Jan 26 - Feb 1, 2008 has an article on "Green" concrete which states; 'Between 5 and 8 per cent of global CO2 emissions are the result of (Portland) cement production'. The ironic` thing is the article also has this byline referring to the "Green" concrete; 'It eats power station waste for breakfast - has E-crete got what it takes to replace ordinary concrete? So, in other words, you need your CO2 spewing, sulfur and oxides of nitrogen belching, fly-ash creating, coal based power stations to make the raw material for E-crete. And on reading the article it appears it does not have what it takes in either strength or durability to replace Portland cement based concrete.

And because you dreifted off away from the near term into longb term energy sources to fill in the gap left by depleted fossil fuel reserves: No, nuclear is not a panacea there either. Or at least simple nuclear using enriched uranium because that is not inexhaustable. Fast breeder reactors may come close but the sheer magnitude of what would be required is difficult to comprehend as possible.

The bottom line to me is that the two generations following us are going to have to adapt to any changes from global warming or cooling; they cannot be stopped. Past that, following generations will need to practise radical birth control to reduce the world population to a level that can be supported by renewable energy sources as prevailed four or five generations ago. If population is not brought down in time by natural attrition; i.e. a birth rate well below replacement levels then Mother Nature will apply retroactive birth control in a large way.

Hi Geof,
Quote Geof: The bottom line to me is that the two generations following us are going to have to adapt to any changes from global warming or cooling; they cannot be stopped. Past that, following generations will need to practise radical birth control to reduce the world population to a level that can be supported by renewable energy sources as prevailed four or five generations ago.
Me: I couldn't agree more. The world is insanely overpopulated, we can't sustain the extant population even for the short term. I think it will take more than radical birth control, I think it will take a pandemic flu outbreak or a major war. BTW, what renewable energy resources did they use 4 ro 5 generations ago?
Quote Geof:
And because you dreifted off away from the near term into longb term energy sources to fill in the gap left by depleted fossil fuel reserves: No, nuclear is not a panacea there either. Or at least simple nuclear using enriched uranium because that is not inexhaustable. Fast breeder reactors may come close but the sheer magnitude of what would be required is difficult to comprehend as possible.

Me: I'll check with John, he'll know about the nuclear thing, he's a genius you know.
5 and 8%, that's a lot. Who could have thought that that much CO2 would come out of concrete production. Well at least I've learned something.
Thank you Geof,
xyzdonna

Well that's what yours says, so does mine, hey, Martin's does as well....

but ? LOL .... not everybody's

Well, I have no idea where that "green button stuff" comes from, and didn't know anything about it until a couple of minutes ago.

I would guess that most people form an opinion of somebody from what they post. I do not need to be directed by some "opinion poll", if indeed, that is what it is.

I suspect that I'm being a bit old-fashioned.

Best wishes,

Martin

....what renewable energy resources did they use 4 ro 5 generations ago?....xyzdonna

Grain and hay for horses and oxen; windpower for windmills, water power for water wheels. Actually my 4 or 5 generations maybe should be taken back abit further because 5 generations ago coal was already in use.

Grain and hay for horses and oxen; windpower for windmills, water power for water wheels. Actually my 4 or 5 generations maybe should be taken back abit further because 5 generations ago coal was already in use.

Thanks Geof,
For not saying "How could you be so stupid"!
BTW, I read your "A Brief History Of Global Climate Change", interesting stuff. I like it when someone puts things in perspective and someone else plays devils advocate.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Well, I have no idea where that "green button stuff" comes from, and didn't know anything about it until a couple of minutes ago.

I would guess that most people form an opinion of somebody from what they post. I do not need to be directed by some "opinion poll", if indeed, that is what it is.

Absolutely, but it is interesting to know what other people think

I suspect that I'm being a bit old-fashioned.

Not at all, one should always think for oneself

Best wishes,

Martin

“Oh wad some power the giftie gie us To see oursel's as others see us!"

Ignore him, Martin. He came here looking for a cuss fight, didn't get it and now trying to start one with you. Just a trouble maker. Don't give him what he wants.

Dear Martin,

I certainly hope you don't perceive my reply to your post as any criticism. Indeed, I intended only agreement and respect for your opinion. I merely added that other peoples opinions are interesting (and indeed are the basis of communication, empathy and civilization).

Your posts have always been original and perceptive; and an invitation to further conversation.

best regards, Gary

I would guess that most people form an opinion of somebody from what they post. I do not need to be directed by some "opinion poll", if indeed, that is what it is.


Martin

Dear All,

No offence taken at all. Quite, the opposite.... I think I should apologise for my pompous post (above).

Best wishes,

Martin

Dear All,

No offence taken at all. Quite, the opposite.... I think I should apologise for my pompous post (above).

Best wishes,

Martin

Never apologise for pompous :D.

According to the green square a person is either an unknown quantity (or something) or on a distnguished road. But it does not seem to correlate with number of posts as far as I can see.

Oh well, another indicator with no real meaning. I just thought it funny that, of those who posted on this thread, most were on a distinguished road.

Goes to show "small minds are amused by small things"

Enough of these trivia lets get on to the Glowball Warmthing.

Oh dear,

Three kind posts directed my way in a suspiciously short period. That usually heralds a very sharp implement in the back in the very near future...(LOL).

Anyway, Christopher Booker, who writes in the UK Sunday Telegraph, wrote this today..

Wintry blasts from the warmists

For ill-tempered venom it is hard to equal the believers in man-made global warming. Not for some time has anything I have written drawn so much personal abuse as my report last week of a graph on the Cryosphere Today website showing that, after its record drop last summer to 4 million square kilometres, ice cover in the Arctic has now recovered to 13 million sq km, almost where it was this time last year.

The point made by those who called me "monumentally stupid" (courtesy of The Guardian's political correspondent, Michael White) or accused me of "utter drivel" was that what should alarm us is not winter ice-cover but the fact - which I did mention - that it dropped to its lowest recorded level last summer.

Once all these climate experts have recovered from their fit of self-righteousness, perhaps they could explain why, at the same time that Arctic ice is diminishing, ice in the Antarctic has increased to easily its highest level ever recorded at this time of year, currently 30 per cent above normal.

After all, it is not winter in the Antarctic, it is summer. And isn't the point about this warming we are all supposed to be panicking about is that it is meant to be global?

Today's link is here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/10/nbooker110.xml

Good stuff on the insanity of wind-farms too..

He writes on a weekly basis...

Best wishes,

Martin

The only thing I have to say about global warming is that I think another mass extinction will do the planet the world of good.

This has very likely already been said but I though I would just add to the mix. :)

John

The only thing I have to say about global warming is that I think another mass extinction will do the planet the world of good.

This has very likely already been said but I though I would just add to the mix. :)

John

At least then we could remove whole groups of unnecessary critters from the "Endangered List" and drill where ever we please.

Oh dear,

Three kind posts directed my way in a suspiciously short period. That usually heralds a very sharp implement in the back in the very near future...(LOL).
<< keep your friends close and your enemies even closer :) >>


A human trait that I observed at a supermarket last week:

A woman had a "to-do" with another particularly obnoxious patron and gave better than she was given. Later I saw the same lady at the checkout being (apparently) exceedingly charitable to an elderly person in the queue. I concluded that she wanted the world to know that she had the latter traits and not the former.

hmmm seems somehow familiar ;)

Converting land for biofuel worsens global warming: study

WASHINGTON (AFP) — Clearing raw land to produce biofuels actually contributes to global warming by emitting large amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, researchers have warned.

Carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from new croplands carved into rainforests, savannas, wetlands or grasslands would easily surpass the overall amount of CO2 emissions reduced through the use of biofuels, according to a report in the February 8 edition of Science.

"If you're trying to mitigate global warming, it simply does not make sense to convert land for biofuels production," said Joe Fargione, a founder of private environment protection agency the Nature Conservancy and co-author of the study.

"All the biofuels we use now cause habitat destruction, either directly or indirectly," he said.

"Global agriculture is already producing food for six billion people. Producing food-based biofuel, too, will require that still more land be converted to agriculture."

Jail politicians who ignore climate science: Suzuki

Didn't mean it literally says scientist's spokesperson

Craig Offman, National Post Published: Thursday, February 07, 2008

Todd Korol/Reuters

David Suzuki has called for political leaders to be thrown in jail for ignoring the science behind climate change.

Jail politicians who ignore climate science: Suzuki

Didn't mean it literally says scientist's spokesperson

Craig Offman, National Post Published: Thursday, February 07, 2008

Todd Korol/Reuters

David Suzuki has called for political leaders to be thrown in jail for ignoring the science behind climate change.

If Canada as a nation has laws on the books to the condition, them he may have a point. Whether the science behind the law is flawed is secondary.

I have called for the same justice of US officials, federal or local that allow the continued existence of illegal's in the US. They pick and choose the laws they want to enforce.

If the law of aiding, abetting or inciting criminal activity can implicate anyone associated in a crime, then the lawmakers should also be held liable for not enforcing existing laws that lets an obvious problem grow out of hand. From the top down, National Border Security, Sanctuary Cities, Social Security and Employers.

Maybe this is exactly why we do not sign onto the GW bandwagon. No one wants to be accountable for things beyond their control and too costly to regulate.

DC

......Goes to show "small minds are amused by small things"......

I guess I must have a small mind; it amuses me. Still I always have been a b eilever in quality over quantity.

If Canada as a nation has laws on the books to the condition, them he may have a point. Whether the science behind the law is flawed is secondary.

I have called for the same justice of US officials, federal or local that allow the continued existence of illegal's in the US. They pick and choose the laws they want to enforce.

If the law of aiding, abetting or inciting criminal activity can implicate anyone associated in a crime, then the lawmakers should also be held liable for not enforcing existing laws that lets an obvious problem grow out of hand. From the top down, National Border Security, Sanctuary Cities, Social Security and Employers.

Maybe this is exactly why we do not sign onto the GW bandwagon. No one wants to be accountable for things beyond their control and too costly to regulate.

DC

Amen to your larger point, accountability for elected and appointed officials.

As to Screw-loose Suzuki, he want inquisition to punish heretics to the Great Church of GW!

.....As to Screw-loose Suzuki, he want inquisition to punish heretics to the Great Church of GW!

Is is in keeping with the idea of Carbon Offsets; some commentators have likened these to the sale of Indulgences by the Catholic Church centuries ago.

Is is in keeping with the idea of Carbon Offsets; some commentators have likened these to the sale of Indulgences by the Catholic Church centuries ago.

Thank you, exactly the kind of exchange I came here for. Be it pro or con I will gladly enter a conversation of this tone.

Your interpretation is precisely the what I derived from the article and from the movement in general.

Thank you, exactly the kind of exchange I came here for. Be it pro or con I will gladly enter a conversation of this tone.

Your interpretation is precisely the what I derived from the article and from the movement in general.

You write pro or con when my comment is pro.

But when my comment is con you have a different approach:

If you are really sincere with the; "Be it pro or con I will gladly enter into a conversation of this tone.", you will go back and retract all the insulting comments you made when I disagreed with your opinion, there is an EDIT button on all the posts.

Here are some examples:

Post #1216: Speaking out both side of you a$$ isn't becoming. Pick a stance and stay there. Or is it just another excuse to attack someone? You really should seek out a professional!


Post #1185: Apparently you are incapable of perception, I support the rule of law. Alcohol is legal, the other stuff isn't.


Post #1104: You are so full of it you smell.

You write pro or con when my comment is pro.

But when my comment is con you have a different approach:

If you are really sincere with the; "Be it pro or con I will gladly enter into a conversation of this tone.", you will go back and retract all the insulting comments you made when I disagreed with your opinion, there is an EDIT button on all the posts.

Here are some examples:

Post #1216: Speaking out both side of you a$$ isn't becoming. Pick a stance and stay there. Or is it just another excuse to attack someone? You really should seek out a professional!


Post #1185: Apparently you are incapable of perception, I support the rule of law. Alcohol is legal, the other stuff isn't.


Post #1104: You are so full of it you smell.


Argumentative and nasty in nature. Ignored!

Argumentative and nasty in nature. Ignored!

On the contrary your response demonstrates that you can only accept agreement with your opinions and you cannot accept disagreement.

On the contrary your response demonstrates that you can only accept agreement with your opinions and you cannot accept disagreement.


Constitutes farther personal attack and thus is ignored.

Hi everybody,
I just had a thought. If biodiesel were made in photobioreactors then maybe there wouldn't be any CO2 released in the process of setting them up. The beauty is these bioreactors can use fresh or salt water to grow algea. So if you were using desert land and sea water I don't see how you would have a major carbon hit. Am I missing something?
Thanks,
xyzdonna

Hi everybody,
I just had a thought. If biodiesel were made in photobioreactors then maybe there wouldn't be any CO2 released in the process of setting them up. The beauty is these bioreactors can use fresh or salt water to grow algea. So if you were using desert land and sea water I don't see how you would have a major carbon hit.[B] Am I missing something?[/]
Thanks,
xyzdonna

Not many deserts are surrounded by seawater, indeed not many deserts are even near seawater.

So what about the energy needed to pump the water up into the desert?

And are these bioreactors open to the atmosphere or fully closed in? I cannot imagine they can be closed because they need access to atmospheric CO2. If they are open evaporative losses will mean that constant pumping is required and the contents of the bioreactor will become progressively more saline; eventually to saline for the little hard working organisms. So it would be necessary to pump extra water and then allow a back flow to the sea to keep the salinity at a value a bit higher than sea water but in the range the organisms can tolerate. Essentially the reactors will be transpiring much like plants do; they lose water from the leaves as a result of having to take in air to get the CO2.

And this creates another problem: What is going to happen to all the new moisture that has been put into the atmosphere in an area which was previously a desert? It would be a bit embarassing if the presence of these giant water vapor emitting bioreactors created thunderstorms and tornadoes downwind.

The researchers who work with a one square yard bioreactor in a lab setting, out of which they might produce a gallon of biodiesel, cheerfully do the extrapolation to a full acre of 5000 square yards giving 5000 gallons, but they rarely take into account peripheral problems and the difficulties inherent in scaling processes by orders of magnitude.

If biodiesel were made in photobioreactors ... these bioreactors can use fresh or salt water to grow algea. So if you were using desert land and sea water I don't see how you would have a major carbon hit.

Pumping sea or fresh water into a desert will increase net evaporation - not a closed system. Water vapor is the major greenhouse gas. Won't this effect more than offset that from the CO2 reduction you are trying to achieve?

Maybe Gore™ can develop a membrane that allows CO2 and O2 to exchange, but blocks water vapor...

Record Cold for Northern Minn.: 40 Below
Email this Story

Feb 11, 2:03 PM (ET)

By JEFF BAENEN

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - It lived up to its name: The temperature in International Falls fell to 40 below zero Monday, just a few days after the northern Minnesota town won a federal trademark making it officially the "Icebox of the Nation."

It was so cold that resident Nick McDougall couldn't even get his car trunk lid to close after he got out his charger to kick-start his dead battery. By late morning, the temperature had risen all the way to 18 - below zero.

"This is about as cold as it gets, this is bad. There's no wind - it's just cold," said McDougall, 48, a worker at The Fisherman, a convenience store and gas station in the town on the Canadian border. "People just don't go out, unless you have to go to work."

Residents of the area use electric engine block heaters to keep their cars from freezing.

"You plug in your car, for sure, and you put the car in the garage if you can," McDougall said. His garage is full of other things, so he had to park outside - a "big mistake."

The previous record low for Feb. 11 in International Falls was 37 below, set in 1967, said meteorologist Mike Stewart at the weather service in Duluth. The cold was expected, he said: "When the winds finally died off and the skies cleared off, it just dropped."

The temperature also fell to 40 below in Embarrass, 80 miles southeast of International Falls. That's just one degree above the all-time record in Minneapolis, 250 miles to the south, that was set in January 1888, the weather service said.

It was also a cold day for the appropriately named town of Winter. The town in northwest Wisconsin chilled to a low of 25 below.

"I try to stay out of it as much as possible right now," said Winter area resident Bill Warner, 37. "I don't have to go out and do anything today so I am all right. You don't want to be out there too long."

Chilly air also spread into the Northeast on Monday and many schools in New York state between Buffalo and Syracuse closed or opened late. Single-digit temperatures plus high wind drove the wind chill factor to nearly 20 below across much of upstate New York.

Philadelphia had a "Code Blue" alert in effect, sending outreach crews to coax homeless people into shelters. Monday's low of 10 above zero.

Farther south, freezing rain hit southwest Missouri early Monday, making roads hazardous and losing schools. A coating of ice up to an inch thick was expected across much of southern and central Missouri, the weather service said.

"It's treacherous. If you can stay home this morning, do it," Missouri Highway Patrol Sgt. Dan Bracker said in Springfield.

Thousands of West Virginia homes and businesses had no electricity Monday after the state was hit by weekend wind gusts of up to 55 mph. At least nine counties closed schools because of power outages and the cold - the mountain city of Elkins had a low of 6 above.

Classes also were canceled Monday for a number of schools in Michigan, which remained in a deep freeze after a weekend of single-digit temperatures and gusty wind. One death was blamed on the weather.

Record Cold for Northern Minn.: 40 Below
Email this Story

Feb 11, 2:03 PM (ET)

By JEFF BAENEN

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - It lived up to its name: The temperature in International Falls fell to 40 below zero Monday, just a few days after the northern Minnesota town won a federal trademark making it officially the "Icebox of the Nation."

It was so cold that resident Nick McDougall couldn't even get his car trunk lid to close after he got out his charger to kick-start his dead battery. By late morning, the temperature had risen all the way to 18 - below zero.

"This is about as cold as it gets, this is bad. There's no wind - it's just cold," said McDougall, 48, a worker at The Fisherman, a convenience store and gas station in the town on the Canadian border. "People just don't go out, unless you have to go to work."

Residents of the area use electric engine block heaters to keep their cars from freezing.

"You plug in your car, for sure, and you put the car in the garage if you can," McDougall said. His garage is full of other things, so he had to park outside - a "big mistake."

The previous record low for Feb. 11 in International Falls was 37 below, set in 1967, said meteorologist Mike Stewart at the weather service in Duluth. The cold was expected, he said: "When the winds finally died off and the skies cleared off, it just dropped."

The temperature also fell to 40 below in Embarrass, 80 miles southeast of International Falls. That's just one degree above the all-time record in Minneapolis, 250 miles to the south, that was set in January 1888, the weather service said.

It was also a cold day for the appropriately named town of Winter. The town in northwest Wisconsin chilled to a low of 25 below.

"I try to stay out of it as much as possible right now," said Winter area resident Bill Warner, 37. "I don't have to go out and do anything today so I am all right. You don't want to be out there too long."

Chilly air also spread into the Northeast on Monday and many schools in New York state between Buffalo and Syracuse closed or opened late. Single-digit temperatures plus high wind drove the wind chill factor to nearly 20 below across much of upstate New York.

Philadelphia had a "Code Blue" alert in effect, sending outreach crews to coax homeless people into shelters. Monday's low of 10 above zero.

Farther south, freezing rain hit southwest Missouri early Monday, making roads hazardous and losing schools. A coating of ice up to an inch thick was expected across much of southern and central Missouri, the weather service said.

"It's treacherous. If you can stay home this morning, do it," Missouri Highway Patrol Sgt. Dan Bracker said in Springfield.

Thousands of West Virginia homes and businesses had no electricity Monday after the state was hit by weekend wind gusts of up to 55 mph. At least nine counties closed schools because of power outages and the cold - the mountain city of Elkins had a low of 6 above.

Classes also were canceled Monday for a number of schools in Michigan, which remained in a deep freeze after a weekend of single-digit temperatures and gusty wind. One death was blamed on the weather.

Warming temps should end worst cold snap since 2000

By Tim Mowry

Published Monday, February 11, 2008

There is light at the end of the ice fog, and residents in Alaska’s second-largest city should begin seeing it today.

While it was 48 degrees below zero at Fairbanks International Airport on Sunday, the coldest temperature recorded so far in Fairbanks’ worst cold snap in eight years, forecasters were calling for a significant warming trend beginning today.

Temperatures should be above zero by Wednesday, said meteorologist Daniel Robinson at the National Weather Service in Fairbanks.

“The high pressure system that’s been locked in over us is finally starting to retreat toward Siberia and Russia,” Robinson said. “Hopefully we’re going to see an end to these minus 40 temperatures.

The cold air mass will be displaced by a low pressure system from Canada that will bring warmer temperatures and the chance of snow by midweek, he said.

.

Not many deserts are surrounded by seawater, indeed not many deserts are even near seawater.

So what about the energy needed to pump the water up into the desert?

And are these bioreactors open to the atmosphere or fully closed in? I cannot imagine they can be closed because they need access to atmospheric CO2. If they are open evaporative losses will mean that constant pumping is required and the contents of the bioreactor will become progressively more saline; eventually to saline for the little hard working organisms. So it would be necessary to pump extra water and then allow a back flow to the sea to keep the salinity at a value a bit higher than sea water but in the range the organisms can tolerate. Essentially the reactors will be transpiring much like
plants do; they lose water from the leaves as a result of having to take in air to get the CO2.

And this creates another problem: What is going to happen to all the new moisture that has been put into the atmosphere in an area which was previously a desert? It would be a bit embarassing if the presence of these giant water vapor emitting bioreactors created thunderstorms and tornadoes downwind.

The researchers who work with a one square yard bioreactor in a lab setting, out of which they might produce a gallon of biodiesel, cheerfully do the extrapolation to a full acre of 5000 square yards giving 5000 gallons, but they rarely take into account peripheral problems and the difficulties inherent in scaling processes by orders of magnitude.

Hi Geof,
Quote Geof: Not many deserts are surrounded by seawater, indeed not many deserts are even near seawater.

So what about the energy needed to pump the water up into the desert?

Me: I'm a dunderhead when it comes to geography. I guess I was thinking about California as one big coastline with most of the rest of it desert.

Quote Geof: And are these bioreactors open to the atmosphere or fully closed in? I cannot imagine they can be closed because they need access to atmospheric CO2. If they are open evaporative losses will mean that constant pumping is required and the contents of the bioreactor will become progressively more saline; eventually to saline for the little hard working organisms. So it would be necessary to pump extra water and then allow a back flow to the sea to keep the salinity at a value a bit higher than sea water but in the range the organisms can tolerate. Essentially the reactors will be transpiring much like
plants do; they lose water from the leaves as a result of having to take in air to get the CO2.

Me: The one's I read about were located near power plants so as to extract their smokestack CO2. I think they would need to be closed to prevent contamination from other bacteria and to better control temperature.

Check out this video, I'd love to get your opinion on this Geof:
http://www.valcent.net/i/misc/Vertigro/index.html

He thinks he could take an area 1/10 the size of New Mexico and produce all our energy needs.
Take care,
xyzdonna

.....The one's I read about were located near power plants so as to extract their smokestack CO2. I think they would need to be closed to prevent contamination from other bacteria and to better control temperature.

There is a contradiction here...you need dirty, CO2 belching, fossil fuel powered power plants so you can produce your renewable energy???? Something does not compute in this equation.

.....
Check out this video, I'd love to get your opinion on this Geof:
http://www.valcent.net/i/misc/Vertigro/index.html

He thinks he could take an area 1/10 the size of New Mexico and produce all our energy needs.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Sorry, this one I don't even try to analyse in detail; he is nuts.

Pumping sea or fresh water into a desert will increase net evaporation - not a closed system. Water vapor is the major greenhouse gas. Won't this effect more than offset that from the CO2 reduction you are trying to achieve?

Maybe Gore™ can develop a membrane that allows CO2 and O2 to exchange, but blocks water vapor...

Hi dynosor,
Check out the video:
http://www.valcent.net/i/misc/Vertigro/index.html
You are right though, water vapor is a major greenhouse gas. The solutions aren't going to be easy or quick. The solutions will probably involve a major population reduction. The earth simply can't support the number of people that are now extant.
Take care,
xyzdonna

There is a contradiction here...you need dirty, CO2 belching, fossil fuel powered power plants so you can produce your renewable energy???? Something does not compute in this equation.



Sorry, this one I don't even try to analyse in detail; he is nuts.

Hi Geof,
You've already got the "dirty, CO2 belching, fossil fuel powered power plants".
This is an interim solution to neutralize them while you replace them.
Whattayaamean he's nuts? You're a scientist dammit, so is he. By the simple expedient of going vertical with his bioreactors he's getting a lot more bang (biodiesel) for the buck. This could work! I'm reminded of the arch conservative Spiro Agnew and his defining statement "the nattering nabobs of negativism".
Come on Geof, give me a little more science and a little less negativity.
Take care,
xyzdonna

Hi Geof,
You've already got the "dirty, CO2 belching, fossil fuel powered power plants".
This is an interim solution to neutralize them while you replace them.

So once you have replaced