I have never heard of this program, what is it and how does it work?

They started out pitching this software as the machinist
Cadcam. I used it back about 12 yrs ago, and really liked it
I've since heard nothing but good news. But I'm stuck
in Mastercamland. Who knows.:p

Although based in Calif. Gibbs seems to be popular in the south but in gaining popularity everywhere.
It's touted as a CAM system NOT a CAD system. It specializes in cutting parts not designing them. It does not make Blue Prints but can do dimensioning. It's set up in a way that confuses most CAD people but is easy to understand for the machinist. It is Parasolid based and is also incorporating the Granite platform as well now. It will open just about anything. It's very quick to use if you know how to use it. I've been using for 3 years and can probably help with any questions anyone may have. It does up to and including 5 axis positioning, but no true 5 axis simultaneous motions. Also does multi- tasking machines.It's excellent at rendering up exactly what is going to happen in the machine and with the right post, what you see is what you're gonna get.

Hey turbine,
Thanks alot.:D

I was wondering myself thanks for the info.

Sorry-how rude of me:D :D
http://www.gibbscam.com/

I've since heard nothing but good news. But I'm stuck
in Mastercamland. Who knows

Stuck? Heh. I started out using the old dos version, like you. It was extremely easy to learn/use. I've used it off and on ever since. I've also used Surfcam, BobCAD, Cimitron, Mastercam and a few others.

Aside from Cimitron, Mastercam has them ALL beat hands down. There's so much automation built in to Gibbs that you have very little control over most aspects of the program.

I'm not bashing Gibbs, (much), it's great for beginners and for simple things. But that's as far as I would go with it.

'Rekd

From what I learned Gibbs is an excelent product and if I had money to burn that would have been my first choice but unfortunately I could not justify spending approx. $6000.00 for a basic mill package when I needed lathe also (an additional $1500.00 or $2500.00), it is from my understanding rated as to be one of the top systems out there and I must agree I have a friend who uses it on a regular basis at work & I've seen this system at work WOW!, too bad this system requires a hardware lock. But anyway remember you have to strongly concider what your intentions are with a Cad/Cam package you are concidering to purchase don't get caught up with comparing all the bells and whistles like I did, the hardest thing to do when in the evaluation process is to be realistic and take a look at what you are currently doing and what your plans are and why you are concidering to purchase this type of software because if you are not carefull you may end up paying good money or wasting alot of valuable time evaluating something with features you may never use. Ok enough of that.
If you are interested I still have and keep on hand a demo CD for Gibbs and a double VHS vidio pack describing the whole 9 yards about gibbs and its capabuilities if I see you at the flying field this weekend I'll let you borrow them for reviw just let me know and I'll bring them along.
Part made by PowerStation. Lathe, Milling & 3 axis interpulation

I am a full time Mastercam instructor and user along with being a dealer,But I got a Dongle for the new 2002 and I am going to play for a while just curious about.

One of the big guys at Gibbs Bob Dunn is a great guy after working the westec show for the last few years next to bob I have decided to take another look just see how it has come along.

I am going in with a full open mind.
Wish me well.

cadcam,
As your Gibbs questions surface don't hesitate to post them. I've been using Gibbs about 3 years full time. (That's well over 7000 hrs. ) There are very few questions I can't answer, however, I am NOT a post guy. I have also had the opportunity to work on Gibbs, with someone who used to work for Gibbs doing testing (a1 thru beta) and post work. I have had the chance to learn things that "they just don't teach" as well. Being an instructor you know what I mean.
Also I'm just starting out with MC and will probably be shelling you with MC questions through this site as they come up.
I speak fluent Cadkey as well so learning MC should come quick.
I can see by my first experiences with MC, that anyone switching from MC to Gibbs may find themselves in a frustrating fog. It's mainly a matter of learning HOW to use the "lean" selection of tools. It is ALL there. (some don't think so) You just need to know
HOW when you don't see a button to do it :D.
*****************
MasterCam seems to to have a lot of "secrets" too. There have been a few times I was hunting around for something and found all I have to do is riGht or left click a mouse button and THERE IT IS! hiding underneath :D

So on the post side are you talking about post hast that is in gibbs now.

If you are then go to the home of post hast and download the info on the company and look under programming support there you will find my old mug.

But I will most likey have vthought for you on gibbs ,thank you for offering your time.

I have messed with post haste and didn't come out impressed.
It seems to be something offered through Gibbs only out of partnership, or for "political" reasons. Granted it's better than not having anything. But nothing can substitute for a good custom post. A couple of mine have been tweaked so many times I can't even remember. My post guy was starting to hate me :D. After my post haste adventures I started calling it, "Post Waste" :D
perhaps unfairly, because I've never looked into the real version of that software. Actually I would love to sink my teeth into ComPost. But they would have to hire me first and then once they tell ya...they have to kill ya.:D (Come on Bill!! it's just a compiler :D )
One of the things to have fun with if you like this sort of thing is to write your own model and template files for "Reporter".
It's possible to get some pretty slick tool sheets, operation reports and all kinds of "stuff" Gibbs spits out automaticlly. I made a sheet (Excel) that's aimed at the tool kitter. This made it possible to lean out the tool sheet. There was just too much information to pack onto one document making it hard to read. Now the tool sheet only has information the operator wants and nothing else. All the specific tooling details (the Kitter wants) are on a seperate sheet. The operator still gets it, but doesn't have to look at unnecessary info.

Turbine,

Just to clear a few things up you wrote about. Gibbs has (not publicized)full 5 axis support. I run this module currently. It of course, can't do everything (yet) is has only been avalible for about 2 years (guess) and can handle most stuff, Also, for the Post Haste disscussion, the version that ships with Gibbs is a basic (at best) version. All posts are long hand but, DO support canned cycles. There is no support for Sub Programs or Work Fixture Offset (G54, 55 etc...). The version can be upgraded to a full version and this works very well. (Not even close to a COMPOST post) But, very good none the lest, if you don't want to pay for post mods, or can't use Com Post.

As for the rest of GibbsCAM keep an eye out for 7.0. (late Summer) Many improvments and new features (135 in all).

Reporter is very cool. It works the best when combined with VB scripts, Intranet server and new tool images.(the tool icons suck)

User, beta tester for 8 years +

Hi God :D (couldn't resist)
Dan P. was saying sometime in late July for v7., but not to get my hopes up. I can wait .....as long as you guys are finding and fixing bugs, that is a good thing.
I have made contact with Jason H. at Texas Offline about
ProXYZ. The suspense is killin' me :D I sent him a file of an impeller to try and run a toolpath on. Can you PM me with a price?
They seem busy as hell there. (training/classes maybe?) Is the bulk of the MTM training over? Must be..long time ago right?
Joe C. chewed my ear off about his MTM post training. :rolleyes:
I have been nagging Gibbs about "multi axis simultaneous milling motion" for a couple years. It's great to see someone else interested and experimentimg with possibilities. However if they don't break soon I'll be forced to change cams. I am learning MC now! Very cool.. but it doesn't leave a good first impression due to some bugs. So.....I am still clinging to my Gibbs ;)

Thanks for the reply GibbsGod and... ya'all come back now.

Guess I should have posted a Gibbs question here instead of the cad cam programming forum. Anyways, anyone really know anything about this expensive module ($8000) ? The only info I got from Texasoffline was a pdf file of the web page on their site. Productec has almost the same info, just a few more pictures. I may be in the market for a Tri tech 5 axis head and would rather not spend another $15k+ for another cam system. Gibbs has been the best investment I've made in my shop, besides the machining centers. Does ProAXYZ support a C axis (rotary head) ?

Thanks:)

If the number you got was around $8000 then about 1/3 of that is the custom post work. Tne maintenance makes up another small peice of the cost as well. There are a few things that you need to know about his module:

First, It runs IN GibbsCAM. you will see new machining icons (other than HOLES, CONTOUR, POCKET, SURFACE and THREAD). The surface, solid and geometry in Gibbs is utilized as well. This is not a ADD ON. This inegrates into your existing GibbsCAM.

Second, You use the same posting menus. There are extra options added her, but it uses the same post menu.

Third, GibbsCAM CUT PART RENDER (CPR we call it) can simulate all 5 axis tool moves.

So, you can program a part with all your standard GibbCAM functions (2D, 3D programming) and any 5 Axis in one file for the machine.

This 5 axis stuff supports (as far as I can tell) any 5 axis configuration. Tables, heads etc..... I have only tried it on a DMG and all is well.

Hope this long winded answer helps.

GibbsGOD

I started using Virtual Gibbs back in the DOS days. I also used GibbsNC, (GibbsCAD/CAM??) on a MAC, when it was 3 seperate modules for CAD and CAM and NC. GibbsNC was COMPLETELY different, but it seemed much more powerful.

I've been programming with Gibbs off and on since the late '80s/early '90s. I've seen them come a long way. They've got some great features, like the geometry expert and creating a toolpath with multiple tools at the same time.

I've been highly dissapointed with their lack of toolpath options, particularly in pocket and surfacing. Also with their post guys. Seems every time I sent a post in to have a simple change, it came back with 2 other problems. That happened literally 90% of the times I sent posts in to them, throughout my career.

I haven't used it in almost a year, I'm hoping for a look at the new features some time soon. Just curious how they're progressing.

'Rekd teh been there done that, moved on to bigger and better things.

Originally posted by Turbine

I speak fluent Cadkey as well so learning MC should come quick.
I can see by my first experiences with MC, that anyone switching from MC to Gibbs may find themselves in a frustrating fog. It's mainly a matter of learning HOW to use the "lean" selection of tools. It is ALL there. (some don't think so) You just need to know
HOW when you don't see a button to do it :D.
*****************
MasterCam seems to to have a lot of "secrets" too. There have been a few times I was hunting around for something and found all I have to do is riGht or left click a mouse button and THERE IT IS! hiding underneath :D

+1

I can see you're going to really enjoy MC. In about a year or 2, you're going to wonder why you didn't switch a long time ago.

And with custom posts, you can REALLY do almost anything.

'Rekd teh Never bring a knife to a gun-fight

If I remember correctly, when I was placing an order for VG some years back, I found out that you couldn't edit your posts out of the box, but in order to arrive at that capability you had to take a 1 week posting class in Calif. (Cost=I don't remember $) and buy a CD (I believe the CD was $1500). So a class + CD + air fare from the east coast = I cancelled the order. I'm wondering if that is still the way it is???

Well, you have many more years on the product than I do. I started on the last MAC version. There were some cool machining options on the Gibbs System that I wish they had now.

As for new roughing, yes there are more options.

Offset, Zig Zag, Offset w/ Large step over (V7.0)
All support, plunge, pre-drill, ramp and Helix entry. (ZigZag also has periphery ramp)

There is a new engine comming just after the 7.0 release (Gen3) that will be cleaner and faster. This will output true arc moves from solids and surface files.

There has been a big improvment for open pockets in 2D and 3D milling as well. Also, Z Level re-machining. This is good but, a little to many retracts for large jobs. (Ok on smaller ones, less travel)

As for the posts, you just need to know the right guys to request to do the work. There are some that are better than others. Also, There is a generic posting utility that ships with the product that you can customize. Very general suport for 2 axis and 3 axis work, NO subs and NO WFO allowed.

V7.0 Should be a big hit. There are many (135) enhancments in this version like (new contour engine, AFR for hole machining, new interface, copy/paste, geom, solids, tools, ops between GibbsCAM sessions. (yes you can run more that one now)

For a taste check out the image.

Like I said in the last post. You can use POSTHASTE (ships with Gibbs) to modify postsor create new ones. This however, is limited. You can NOT ouput sub programs, or work fixture offsets.

You can purchase a upgrade to a fill version from Groundsupport.com.

Or (you didn't here this from me) if you are a large company or are buying several seats, just request COMPOST. Sometimes you can get it thrown in. But, you will still need to take training for it.

hope this helps.

GOD

Translucent dialogs? Or did you do that for affect? That's actually not a bad idea.

As an example of toolpath limitations, MC offers 8 different types of pocketing paths (roughing in Gibbsspeak)..

[list=1]
Zig Zag
Constant Overlap Sprial
Parallel Spriral
Parallel Spiral, Clean Corners
Morph Spriral
High Speed
One Way
True Sprial
[/list=1]

Oh yeah, that's another feature I really like about Gibbs; Wall-Air. Very handy for eliminating excess geometry.

'Rekd

Originally posted by Gibbsgod
If the number you got was around $8000 ...

This 5 axis stuff supports (as far as I can tell) any 5 axis configuration. Tables, heads etc..... I have only tried it on a DMG and all is well.

Hope this long winded answer helps.

GibbsGOD

Your post definitely helped. Took another look at the price list texasoffline sent and its actually $8500, with N/A listed under Maintenance. Even if it could only do 3+2 machining with a rotary head (older Delcam) that would be ok.:)

Originally posted by Gibbsgod
Like I said in the last post. You can use POSTHASTE (ships with Gibbs) to modify postsor create new ones. This however, is limited. You can NOT ouput sub programs, or work fixture offsets.

You can purchase a upgrade to a fill version from Groundsupport.com.

Or (you didn't here this from me) if you are a large company or are buying several seats, just request COMPOST. Sometimes you can get it thrown in.

hope this helps.

GOD

Not sure how this will work with postehaste or compost, but you can specify fixture offsets via the At Op Start boxes. There's a certain code you need to put in to use it, but I don't remember where it is.

'Rekd

Originally posted by Gibbsgod
.................

For a taste check out the image.

Any target date for the new release? On the surface modeling toolbar the far right icon looks like a tool to extend surface edges, yes? Can't tell you how many times I needed such a function to repair bad iges files. :)

Well since I am an honest guy I will give you (all) the good and the bad.

Lets see..... Where to start?

Rekd.... I know that MC has many roughing options but, like I ask everyone (even when I was a MC user) how many jobs did it take you to use all 8? I think I only used about 3-4. (Gibbs has 3-5 total)

Transparent.... Yes this is REAL. Due to the FULL support of XP. This is a standard XP option. Also, when you change the XP Theme, Gibbs will change all the dialogs and Icons to match. VERY COOL. I run a XBOX Theme, all black and green. The talked about this in a ad in Modern Machine Shop a month or so ago.


The WFO command is NEWWFO xx (xx is the # like 55 56 57)
This ONLY works with a ComPost Post from Gibbs.

Target date? Well....... As everyone knows, with testing WHO KNOWS. If I had to guess I would say this year HA ha.

Surface Extend.... Wait and see...

Hey Reked,

I was just thinking about the pocketing in MC. I tried the HS pocketing at a friends shop and ran into a problem. The step over moves between cuts are NOT HS moves. By this I mean, they are not a smooth transition move. They are a straight step over move. Which is no good in HSM. The machine kept slowing down to a standstill to step over and then sped up again.

So, I guess it is a HS pocketing oeration with a small problem.

Don't get me wrong, the rest of the path worked great. On long moves we were running at 1120ipm.

Originally posted by Gibbsgod
Well since I am an honest guy I will give you (all) the good and the bad.

Lets see..... Where to start?

Rekd.... I know that MC has many roughing options but, like I ask everyone (even when I was a MC user) how many jobs did it take you to use all 8? I think I only used about 3-4. (Gibbs has 3-5 total)

Transparent.... Yes this is REAL. Du to the FULL support of XP. This is a standard XP option. Also, when you change the XP Theme, Gibbs will change all the dialogs and Icons to match. VERY COOL. I run a XBOX Theme, all black and green.



I've used all of them. I've also been duped by Gibbs for not having the pocket type I required for certain jobs. The reason I brought the pocketing up is only as an example of the MANY MANY things that CAN be done and, in fact, some were done in the original GibbsNC and removed.

I'm not trying to slam Gibbs, I owe a big wet sloppy kiss to them for being the first CAD/CAM system I ever used. But it's limited. It's built for machinists, not programmers. It's easy to learn. I am equally skilled in both Gibbs and Mastercam, and Mastercam is, IMNSHO, the choice for serious programmers.

'Rekd teh Racecar spelled backwards is racecaR

Originally posted by Gibbsgod
Hey Reked,

I was just thinking about the pocketing in MC. I tried the HS pocketing at a friends shop and ran into a problem. The step over moves between cuts are NOT HS moves. By this I mean, they are not a smooth transition move. They are a straight step over move. Which is no good in HSM. The machine kept slowing down to a standstill to step over and then sped up again.

So, I guess it is a HS pocketing oeration with a small problem.

Don't get me wrong, the rest of the path worked great. On long moves we were running at 1120ipm.

The HS Pocket feature creates loops when it plunges sideways into material, reducing tool load and removing sharp corners. There's more than enough settings there to control how it works, as you can remove the "loops" all together, and HS the remainder of the pocket.

:edit:
On long moves we were running at 1120ipm

:eek: That's about a pucker factor: 8

:/edit:

'Rekd

I've been using Gibbs since Mac days. We switched our shop over to the PC side and Gibbs with it.

I agree it is easy to use, but :

I have not upgraded since version 5.1 because I did not want to spend more money on something I did not like. I am disapponted with the interface that Gibbs has for a Windows machine. Windows cant be resized. Many keys do not function like a DOS/Windows machine. Balloon help is annoying. I also did not like the drawing functions. I had to pay Gibbs $600 to modify my posts. I can't open a Autocad drawing directly.

Have these things improved in recent versions?

Bill.

Well I guess I have all the answers. (at least today!!) HA HA

Here are the answers:

The interface; all though not microsoft windows look, is still 100% windows. Since Gibbs is they will be compliant with XP in V7.0. This will:

Allow you to resize the main graphic window and several others. NOT any of the machining dialogs, to may options to shrink on a smaller windo without adding scrool bars.

Support for alt, ctrl, shift, cut/copy/paste

Ballons.... yah they get in the way. After you know the software (about 2 weeks) you never need them until a new function is added in a new version.

The drawing is strange at first, but after a while you get used to it.

Look in this thread about the posts.

They now (6.11.13) support the following file formats

VNC Gibbs
DXF
DWG
TXT Point list (digitized points)
IGES (surface and Solid)
Parasolid (in and Out)
ACIS (IN and Out
SolidWorks
SolidEdge
Inventor
Mechanical Desktop
Catia V4 and V5 (V5 in 7.0)
VDA-FS
PRO/E (granite toolkit from PTC)
STEP203
STEP214
STL (ascii and Bin OUT ONLY)

After that list there is not much left.

Also, the new version supports (if you like them, I DO) spaceballs.

Hope this helps

GOD OUT!!

The drawing is strange at first, but after a while you get used to it.

Personally, I love the geometry creation, except for having to have a F*$&@^G point at an intersection... (chair) That used to p!ss me off to no end; even as a beginner I knew it was wrong!

But the geometry expert is da bomb for creating, evaluating and manipulating geometry. Even complex shapes are created easily once you master the interface.

'Rekd teh Conquerer :stickpoke

The reason for the point at intersections is that Gibbs automaticly
"connects" coincident geometry for toolpath creation purposes, and that also eliminates the need to trim. Just turn them off.
(pulldown "View", uncheck "Draw Points")
Isn't it nice... not having to trim every damn line and curve ? :D

Sounds like some nice improvements.

What about the arrow key when editing comments?

Will shift-tab go backwards thru the fields?


Bill

Thought I would put some more info about post hast.
Posthast can be updated to a better version and be made to support any features and even 5axis ,along with any other cad-cam systems.

Post hast has proven it self many time over to many cad-cam companys.

I would still think about looking at the Direct PostHast post.

Any questions about post hast please go to my links page and use the mail to contact one of my partners over there.

Originally posted by Turbine
The reason for the point at intersections is that Gibbs automaticly
"connects" coincident geometry for toolpath creation purposes, and that also eliminates the need to trim. Just turn them off.
(pulldown "View", uncheck "Draw Points")
Isn't it nice... not having to trim every damn line and curve ? :D

It doesn't automatically connect the geomety, you still have to do it, (in some cases, you have to select THREE entities to join TWO entities if the "point" is already there,) and if you want to have 3 or more features terminate at the same point, it's a real pain in the arse. Ever had to toolpath a dirty dxf file??? :eek:

The ONLY saving grace, and IMNSHO it's STILL not worth it because of terminated "points" vanishing and un-trimming the line when you try to load it, is the Geometry Expert.

Like I said, Gibbs is a great program for simple things and for learning CAD/CAM, but I prefer having complete control and limitless creativity, and the ability to make minor and/or major changes to my posts, (or toolbars, or tool/material databases) as I see fit, without having to buy 3rd party products or send it to someone else to modify.

'Rekd teh Only my opinion..

A follow up on Geometry, Material Data base, Tools, and others!!

In the geometry end of things, we have the assumption that there needs to be a point created at each trim (connect) location. This is a false statment. Also, there is the assumption that IF- there is a point already at that location it will need to be seleted to make the connection. This is ALSO not true.

By selecting 2 entities (line/line, line/arc, arc/arc, spline/line, etc....) you can connect (trim) them together. If there is a point at the location already, you can still select the 2 entities and connect them. The point will become the connector (trim point). There is also a extend/Intersect/connect function that will do more yet. The rest of the geometry creation tools are all there as well.

As for Geometry Expert (GE), I don't like it much at all. The entities need to be created in a way that the numbers in GE are created clean (one value instead of a valuse for each end of the entity. (that just makes changes that much harder) I ONLY use it for simple mods and drawing lathe parts. If the porfile is open, the you will have to re connect the end when you are done. (extra steps)

As for posts, well we have talked about them enough already. (let the dying dog sleep)

Tools, this is a good topic, There is NO tool database in GibbsCAM but, you can start Gibbs with a template file that will load a standard set of tools for Mill, Lathe and MTM parts. There is also the ability to store machining processes (complete machining operations like a taped hole, Stores spot, drill and tap with all the feeds, speeds, peck and other values) that you can load any time in any part. Also (new for V7.0) when working with holes, you have a hole database table that you can add to or modify that will automaticly build the proper tools for any type hole. You call out the hole type and the values (chamfer, dia, depth, etc...) and the type of machinng operations that you want to machine the holes with (spot, drill, chamfer, drill, bore, ream, back bore, etc...) and Gibbs will build the tools and the machining processes for you.

The material Database (speeds and feeds) This is a touchy spot with me. I think it SUCKS. You can edit and customize it at will, but I find too many dumb things that it has a problem with. I never use it. I would rather spend the same money and buy a stand alone version that is top notch.

Have a great week.

So.....in v7, hole wizard will build the tools for you (something that it should have done from the beginning) instead of giving that stupid "tool not found - try creating a tool...." thing.

Can ya give us sum mor previews :D

Well, I guess you will see it sooner or later. So here it is. This is the way Hole Wizard should have workd the first time. It still isn't what I would like to see, but it does work.

If the image isnt clear, you will see "BLUE" hyper links in the tool checker list. (next to the tool list). This will give you several choices depending on how you want to machine something. Like to center drill a hole. The software will ask you to select between the proper tool, Center Drill or Spot Drill. The sizes are already defined for you.

Also, in the Hole Wizard, you will see support for blind and thru holes.


Hope this wets your whistle!!

Originally posted by cadcam
Post hast has proven it self many time over to many cad-cam companys.
I would still think about looking at the Direct PostHast post.


I have to agree with cadcam on this one, I had the pleasure
of seeing it first hand at my former employer and was
impressed. Paul was way cool to work with. He not only
Made posts for Mastercam ,but UG as well.

PEACE:D