I was told this machine has rigid tapping but after a code G84.2 and try and run G84.1 it just sits there. How can I check to see if the machine really does have rigid tapping? Do I need to go into the Parameters?

Thanks,
Don

Don, the G84 is a tapping cycle code. On the fadal the .1 and .2 and used to signify which gear you want the tapping to be done in. If you are using a higher rpm, the spindle may "coast" to a stop before reversing. The z axis may reverse prior. If you keep it in a lower gear it will respond better. The machine does not know if the tap is chucked rigid or floating. There are physical componets needed to do rigid tap. The proper spindle driver and spindle feed back, not just a tach. Do you have a factory setup sheet in the back of the electrical cabinet? That may tell you. Or you can call the factory with the serial number and they may help you.

Good Luck
Mike

Don, G84.1 is for rigid tapping.Plain G84 is for the floating type of holder.One way you can tell if you have Rigid Tap is look up top above the Spindle motor.The Black plastic coil thing that holds all the wires together.If there is another Black Plastic coil right behind that one then you have Rigid Tap.

Also,we bought some new Fadal years back with Rigid Tap.When we tried it it didn't work.We called Fadal out and it turned out that the spindle had to be calibrated for the Rigid Tap and it wasn't.Don't know why or if they were supposed to do it at the factory but anyhow it has to be done by the Fadal tech.He calibrated it and then Rigid Tap worked just fine.G84.1 is the G-code we used for it.

No setup sheet & no extra energy chain. How do the calibrate the spindle for rigid tapping. Is it in the manual somewhere?

Thanks,
Don

The rigid tapping is calibrated by placing a special ground threaded master in the spindle. Using a .0001" resolution indicator in the thread run service program O6000. Adjust the Gain and Ramp parameters on page two of the SETP until the needle tracking is less than .0005" total deflection. The service program can be retrieved from the E-proms by typing TA,7 at Enter Next Command.

Neal

Where can I get the "Special Ground Threaded Master"? I have looked on line but I don't see anything. Does it just have one V in it? If someone has one can the snap a picture of it, perhaps I can just make one.

Thanks,
Don

Don,
By the time you end up buying one, you might be better off just paying a tech to come out and do it for you. I imagine they are not cheap.

It is just a threaded rod, but has ground and certified threads. It needs to be of sufficient size threads that you can put an indicator needle on the threads. I gave a 1" toolholder to a service tech that said he was going to use it for checking rigid tap cycles, so I imaging that they use a 1" diameter rod.

If you have any large ID master thread gages of sufficient length, you might be in luck. The trick is mounting them in the spindle with minimal runout. Of course, you'll need to program a tapping cycle with the same lead as the gage you're using to dial in your parameters.

Justin

Even more perplexing now! I went into the SETP parameters page and it says High Torque/Rigid=Yes. So I loaded the TA,7 programs and tried to run the Rigid tap program. when it gets to the G84.1 line it hangs for a second and then just drops out of auto mode.

This machine has all new cards in it. Everything was upgraded. How do I tell what -model it is?

Does the model make a difference on the G84 code?

Thanks,
Don

Look at your spindle vector drive. The tag should say "RT Ready" if not you don't have rigid tap.

Look at your spindle vector drive. The tag should say "RT Ready" if not you don't have rigid tap.

I've got a Mitsubishi vector drive and there is no place on the tag that references the rigid tap capabilities. Funny thing Fadals manual does not mention ever using a Mitsubishi vector drive. I'm sure they did, it just doesn't reference them anywhere. (I downloaded the manual off the net.)

Don

I have never heard of them using Mitsubishi either. I was always told it was either a Baldor or Advanced Motion Control. We ran into the same problem a couple of years ago. Dealer sells us a used 4020 production series with RT and when we got it in and tried it out nothing. We had hired a machine repair tech to check it out for any seriuos problems before the sale but he never checked rigid tap. Since then we only use Fadal Techs to check out any equipment before we buy.

I think you can go to the enter next command and type SETP and it should tell you what is installed. just don't change any of the settings or you can screw stuff up

I think you can go to the enter next command and type SETP and it should tell you what is installed. just don't change any of the settings or you can screw stuff up

envisioneng,

I have already checked that and it says Rigid=Yes in SetP. The post is a little further down. (or up depending on how you have it set.) :)

The control still chokes on a G84.1 or G84.2; I ran with a G84 and the Z height was all over the place. I'll probably have to call the service guy and have him come and look it over.

Thanks,
Don

look at the eproms on the spindle controller card. If the eprom number starts with the letters RT then you have the rigid tap software. If it starts with SP you do not.

Neal

Just a thought, maybe your control has the feature enabled but the Spindle drive is not set up for it, usually with the mitsubishi drives, it requires a P.G. or encoder on the SP motor back to the drive.
All the controls I use that have synchronised tapping have an encoder back to the control, also.
Al.

Can someone post a working rigid tap program? Maybe I'm just missing some setup information or something. I don't need much just a couple holes if someone can have their CAM software spit something out for me to try and to compare to what I have.

Thanks,
Don

Just a thought, maybe your control has the feature enabled but the Spindle drive is not set up for it, usually with the mitsubishi drives, it requires a P.G. or encoder on the SP motor back to the drive.
All the controls I use that have synchronised tapping have an encoder back to the control, also.
Al.

Well there is a small, what I assumed was a motor, on top of the spindle motor; could that be what is sending the signal back? (See Pic)

Thanks,
Don

That look like a cooling fan.
Al.

Here's some samples:
%
N1O432(COMPRESSION TAPPING IN FORMAT 1
N2M6T1(8-32 TAP
N3G0G90G80G17G40S1500M3E1X0Y0
N4H1Z0.2M8
N5G84G99R+0.2Z-0.5Q0.03125F1500.X1.Y-2.
N6X2.
N7X3.
N8G80M5M9
N9G0Z1.
N10X0Y0Z0H0E0
N11M2
%


%
N1O432(COMPRESSION TAPPING IN FORMAT 2
N2M6T1(8-32 TAP
N3G0G90G80G17G40S1500M3E1X0Y0
N4H1Z0.2M8
N5 G84 G99 R0+.2 Z-.5 S1500. F46.875 X1. Y-2
N6X2.
N7X3.
N8G80M5M9
N9G0Z1.
N10X0Y0Z0H0E0
N11M2
%

%
N1O432(Rigid Tap IN FORMAT 1
N2M6T1(8-32 TAP
N3G0G90G80G17G40S1500M5E1X0Y0(--------- notice the M5 instead of the M3
N4H1Z0.2M8
N5G84.1G99R+0.2Z-0.5Q0.03125F1500.X1.Y-2.(------------ change G84 to G84.1
N6X2.
N7X3.
N8G80M5M9
N9G0Z1.
N10X0Y0Z0H0E0
N11M2
%

%
N1O432(Rigid TAPPING IN FORMAT 2
N2M6T1(8-32 TAP
N3G0G90G80G17G40S1500M5E1X0Y0 (-------------notice M5 instead of M3
N4H1Z0.2M8
N5 G84.1 G99 R0+.2 Z-.5 S1500. F46.875 X1. Y-2(------change G84 to G84.1
N6X2.
N7X3.
N8G80M5M9
N9G0Z1.
N10X0Y0Z0H0E0
N11M2
%


%
N1O432(Tapmatic style of tap for Format 1
N2M6T1(8-32 TAP
N3G0G90G80G17G40S1500M3E1X0Y0
N4H1Z0.2M8
N5 G75 G99 R0+.2 Z-.5 Q0.03125F1500.X1. Y-2
N6X2.
N7X3.
N8G80M5M9
N9G0Z1.
N10X0Y0Z0H0E0
N11M2
%



%
N1O432(Tapmatic style of tap for Format 2
N2M6T1(8-32 TAP
N3G0G90G80G17G40S1500M3E1X0Y0
N4H1Z0.2M8
N5 G75 G99 R0+.2 Z-.5 S1500.F46.875X1. Y-2
N6X2.
N7X3.
N8G80M5M9
N9G0Z1.
N10X0Y0Z0H0E0
N11M2
%

USEFUL FORMULAS:

FORMAT 2:
THREAD FEED RATE = RPM/THREADS PER INCH
THREAD FEED RATE – RPM * THREAD LEAD

FORMAT 1:
“Q” VALUE =THREAD LEAD = 1 INCH/ NUMBER OF THREADS PER INCH

Neal

Thanks a million Neal, Looks like the Rigid option is not correct. (or it may need to be calibrated.)

The machine starts the program, moves to position, sits there & then drops out of Auto. I'm guessing I was misinformed about this machine having the Rigid Tapping option.

Thanks,
Don

%
N1O432(Rigid Tap IN FORMAT 1
N2M6T1(8-32 TAP
N3G0G90G80G17G40S1500M5E1X0Y0(--------- notice the M5 instead of the M3
N4H1Z0.2M8
N5G84.1G99R+0.2Z-0.5Q0.03125F1500.X1.Y-2.(------------ change G84 to G84.1
N6X2.
N7X3.
N8G80M5M9
N9G0Z1.
N10X0Y0Z0H0E0
N11M2
%

Neal,
I notice that you do not use G84.2 ahead of G84.1. Is this an oversight or is G84.2 not needed?

Dave

Well there is a small, what I assumed was a motor, on top of the spindle motor; could that be what is sending the signal back? (See Pic)

Thanks,
Don


Sorry, I don't want to change the subject-BUT I see a garage door opener in the pic. Is this machine in a standard home garage? If so how did you get it in? I am considering getting a 4020. But if it will not fit in my home garage I will look for another smaller machine.
Thanks, Rick

daking--
The G84.2 is a calibration cycle. It was required on the earlier softwares. Starting with software System 97 and later it is no longer needed. The calibration cycle is incorporated into the G84.1 cycle. In fact the G84.2 can actual cause an alarm (spindle will not stop) in the later software under certain circumstances.

Neal

Neal-Thanks for the clarification.:cheers:

Dave

To do ridgid tap on a fadal with funac controll.
M29;
G84 xx xx xx xx;
M29 tells the machine ridgid tap mode

Sorry, I don't want to change the subject-BUT I see a garage door opener in the pic. Is this machine in a standard home garage? If so how did you get it in? I am considering getting a 4020. But if it will not fit in my home garage I will look for another smaller machine.
Thanks, Rick

It is in my garage. I have 3 10'X10' doors on my garage. The garage is 28X40 with 12' ceilings. Height would probably be fine at 10'.

Other than that if I can answer any other questions just let me know.

Don

Format 2 RT
%
N1 O01 ( TAP TEST )
N6 ( T1 | 1/4-20 TAPRH | H1 )
N7 G20
N8 G0 G17 G40 G80 G90
N9 ( TOOL 1 DIA OFFSET = D0 LEN OFFSET = H1 )
N10 ( DIA = .25 )
N11 ( DESCRIPTION = 1/4-20 TAPRH )
N12 T1 M6
N13 G0 G90 S1069.2 M5 M90 E1 X0. Y0.
N14 H1 Z.1
N15 G84.1 G99 X0. Y0. Z-.5 R0.1 S1069.2 F53.45
N16 G80
N17 M5
N18 G90 H0 Z0.
N19 E0 X0 Y0
N20 M30
%
%



%
N1 O02 ( TAP TEST Format 2 CT)
N6 ( T1 | 1/4-20 TAPRH | H1 )
N7 G20
N8 G0 G17 G40 G80 G90
N9 ( TOOL 1 DIA OFFSET = D199 LEN OFFSET = H1 )
N10 ( DIA = .25 )
N11 ( DESCRIPTION = 1/4-20 TAPRH )
N12 T1 M6
N13 G0 G90 S1069 M3 E1 X0. Y0.
N14 H1 Z.1
N15 G84 G99 X0. Y0. Z-.5 R0.1 F53.45
N16 G80
N17 M5
N18 G90 H0 Z0.
N19 E0 X0 Y0
N20 M30
%
%

This is directly from Mastercam x MR1 SP2

Hope this helps

MakingChips