OK ... Lets hear it. What is wrong, what would you like to see improved, or what you would like to see on a Haas?

better service
and stop tecs from telling me i am the only one who has ever had a problem with a haas machine. "never seen that before" they say
any more and it would sound like a rant

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22235

Seems a bit unnecessary to type my post over again.

And what are you going to do about it call Gene yourself?

I would like to see a mid auto manual type button where I can jog the tool away and check it with the push of the cycle start the machine goes back to where I manually jogged away from.


Better chip return and less chips in my coolant tank I have a new 55 gallon tank and I think I get more chips than coolant some days.

Quiter Z axis way covers!

Full C Axis option on TL-15's and TL-25's sub spindles what good is the sub and live tool if I don't have a full C axis on the sub.

Hey Timan yeah.I wonder if the new Haases have that option.Fadal has had that since at least 1994.Hit Feed hold then jog away to anywhere.Then hit Cycle start and it asks you if you want to return too the spot where you left off from the program.Its nice too have.

is it this what you mean : http://www.haascnc.com/cncmag/answerman_article.asp?VolumeNo=-1&IssueNo=-1&ArticleID=557 ??

is it this what you mean : http://www.haascnc.com/cncmag/answerman_article.asp?VolumeNo=-1&IssueNo=-1&ArticleID=557 ??

Thank you Pit202, I remembered seeing that but could not find it again.

I know tht but you have to go thru some steps I would like for my operator's to hit one button. I myself have no problem with that but when you hire button pushers sometimes it is easier!

I have come to the conclusion that I dont like the jog set up. The membrane buttons. I like the rotary switches, Fadal sytle. I can have my head in the machine and feel the switches without looking at them. Even with a remote jog, you have to look at the button before you push it.

I'll toss this idea out, even though I admit it is a little bit off the wall :D

RE: jogging in Z for tool setting: For me, this is a continuous repetitive list of motions: push .1 (jog increment), jog down near, push .01 jog closer, push .001 jog even closer, push .0001 to get the final touchoff.

So what my suggestion (for discussion) would be this: for each reversal of the feed handwheel, the jog increment automatically drops down one 'notch'.

So you might begin at .1 increment, rotating the handwheel to bring the tool down, pause and reverse the handwheel by some amount, then continue downwards again, but now the jog increment has auto stepped down to .01, and so on.

At any time, this can be overridden by pressing the jog interval of your choice. Whenever the jog increment has auto stepped all the way to .0001, then it stays there until you push an increment button to change it.

I don't know the details of how it would be done, but that is what I think I'd like. It might be handy in X and Y, too, but perhaps a button option would be necessary to enable this or disable it on the spur of the moment, nothing as arduous as setting a parameter to make it behave this way (or not).

BTW, make this software change backwards compatible for machines back to 1995 :D

And what are you going to do about it call Gene yourself?


Gene Haas has problems of his own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Haas

one think could be done in toolrooms , jogging axis with pre-setted speed , there are some works that I made without programming eg facing or is a way that I don`t know ?

one think could be done in toolrooms , jogging axis with pre-setted speed , there are some works that I made without programming eg facing or is a way that I don`t know ?

On the mill you can select .001 increments then jog lock the axis you want and use feed override to speed up or slow down the travel. Plus setting the jog limits for incremental step overs step downs.

Speaking of TM-1s a bit more ridgidity would be nice. I can't take the cuts I want without the maching shaking like a dog trying to pass a peach seed and forget getting 100% spindle loading and the extra torque that goes with it in that kind of situation 65% max on both of our shop's.

one think could be done in toolrooms , jogging axis with pre-setted speed , there are some works that I made without programming eg facing or is a way that I don`t know ?

As Shotout mentions the Feedrate overrides work for Jog Lock. Setting .001 is 1ipm and you can override up to 2 and setting .01 gives 10ipm and you can underride down to nothing in steps of 10%.

Hu,

Maybe you should look at a new machine with the renishaw probing option;)
Best value for the dollar in my mind!!!!

I'd like to see a faster refresh rate on the new controllers. It can be brutally slow, particularly whan doing surfacing where your firing through code like there is no tomorrow!!!!!!!!

Faster processors like real computers

better handling on HSM

the new screen is nice

Rapid--->HS Feed, I would like to see this work, or get rid of the dog leg rapid all together

REAL horsepower ratings. Not just the HP rating of the motor.

Better chip conveyor system--why should anyone need a chipenator?

Longer chip spout- the ones they come with are too short to even put a trash can under to catch chips, we had to make some extensions.

It seems customer service has gone down hill with Haas, now you get BS answers cause they don't want to fix anything or actually listen to the users.

....Longer chip spout- the ones they come with are too short to even put a trash can under to catch chips, we had to make some extensions.

It seems customer service has gone down hill with Haas, now you get BS answers cause they don't want to fix anything or actually listen to the users.

What is the saying...you can't please all the people all the time...we cut ours down because they were too long :D .

And on the service front that is I believe a dealer responsibility. I get good service when I need it which is not very often.

What is the saying...you can't please all the people all the time...we cut ours down because they were too long :D .

And on the service front that is I believe a dealer responsibility. I get good service when I need it which is not very often.

So true :0)

070613-2014 EST USA

Rob M:

What do you mean by real horsepower? Is it the power output from the motor shaft, or the power output from the spindle?

The HP rating on the machine is probably for 150% load. So 2/3 of that would be the 100% rating. Now is the 100% rating good for 100% duty cycle at a room ambient of 110 deg F. I doubt it. However, look at what is actually in the HAAS specifications for your machine and it is probably fairly accurate.

The power output at the end of the spindle is going to be less than the motor output and a lot less at high spindle RPM.

HAAS may use specmanship on their front panel label, but I do not think so in the actual specs. At the moment I can not find where HAAS has the motor power, torque, and duty cycle on their site. But for example on the VF-2 the spindle is rated peak power of 20 Hp. This is probably the maximum short time rating of the motor controller as reflected to the ouput of the motor shaft. And this is probably the 150 % point.

So long as you can get speed torque specs from all manufactures you can make comparisons. Car engines are a bigger problem. Here an engine with a higher peak HP may actually have less power at 1800 RPM than an engine with a lower peak HP. For a large vehicle 1800 RPM maybe a good figure for 60 MPH in overdrive. Auto engines are rated by peak HP rather than Torque or HP at a normal driving RPM.

.

I think gar has the horsepower thing correct. If you want to check go to the Haas website and then to the Answer Man archives. There was a question and answer about this a couple of years ago.

As far as I can recall the hp on the machine is the 150% load, the border between yellow and red on the spindle load display and this can be used for up to 30minutes, anything above is limited to 10 minutes and 100% can be used indefinitely.

It seems to me that many people have the perception that Haas machines are underpowered and I think this arises because so many of their lower cost units have a simple direct belt drive. A direct drive machine running at 3000 rpm will appear to be grossly underpowered compared to a gearbox machine running 3000 rpm in low gear.

The answer is if you want to use hefty cuts and feeds spring the extra dollars and get a gearbox machine.

Gearbox. Wouldn't that be nice!

As far as complaints, not too many. But there are 3 off the top of my head:

1)
Being able to "block delete" something that contains cutter comp commands. Not necessarily a line or 2 during cutter comp, but the whole section of code that contains say; a safe tool change, to positioning, to start cutter comp, to blah blah blah, to exit cutter comp. It will currently run that way with block delete on, but turn it off and it alarms out.

2)
More flexibility in options for new machines. For example, I wanted to get through spindle coolant on our Mini Mill. It was, however, unavailable unless we stepped up to a Super Mini Mill. That doesn't make sense, since (from what I understand) the spindle cartridge for a 6000 rpm spindle is the same as the 7500 rpm spindle, and you can get TSC on larger machines with the 7500 rpm spindle. (Just a side note, for those of you who doubt these 2 belt drive spindles are different, we just had a new spindle installed in our Mini a couple of months ago and the spindle that was shipped from Haas Automation was labeled as a 7500 rpm spindle.)

3)
Something needs to be addressed on the SL-10 for cleaning out the sump. The only way we have found is to remove the chip conveyor, which if you don't know, takes an act of congress to do. Also, the chip conveyor, not the auger, fits nicely on 3 sides. There aren't too many places for chips to get around on those sides. The fourth, however, leaves almost a 3/8" gap for chips to run right through. This fourth side is the very front of the machine, where the door is, (on our machine) right below the parts catcher. The whole front edge is open for chips to get washed into the sump.

Great machines otherwise. Thanks for the place to rant!

Gearbox. Wouldn't that be nice!

As far as complaints, not too many. But there are 3 off the top of my head:

1)
Being able to "block delete" something that contains cutter comp commands. Not necessarily a line or 2 during cutter comp, but the whole section of code that contains say; a safe tool change, to positioning, to start cutter comp, to blah blah blah, to exit cutter comp. It will currently run that way with block delete on, but turn it off and it alarms out.



Put that entire sequence in a subroutine and then block delete the line with the subroutine call.

Geof and Gar,

You are correct and I am aware of that. We do a lot of hogging, so when the machine bogs down it's rather annoying, we've learned to live with it I guess it would be "nicer" if 100% spindle load meant 30hp. :) In all reality for the cost of the machine it works really well.

Geof and Gar,

You are correct and I am aware of that. We do a lot of hogging, so when the machine bogs down it's rather annoying, we've learned to live with it I guess it would be "nicer" if 100% spindle load meant 30hp. :) In all reality for the cost of the machine it works really well.

Normally I machine aluminum and find they perform very well. On steel it is different and one compromise solution I use on a SuperMinimill when I am dealing with hot rolled steel is to go fairly high speed, smallish depth of cut and a good feed with a small face mill using an air blast.

But it is not a good choice of machine for steel I think.

070614-1927 EST USA

Here is a source of some spindle information.

http://www.haascnc.com/pdf/brochure/SLBrochure.pdf

I found this thru Google. On HAAS's web site I could not figure out how to find it.

See pages 12 and 13.

Note: the comment on duty cycle. However, there is much information not said. If you ran at 200% for 5 minutes, then how long must you wait before you can run continuous at 100%, and what must you do during the wait period.

I do not see where HAAS specifically states what the magnitude of "continuous horsepower" is for a given front panel label, such as SL-20. It seems to be implied, but not explictly stated that an SL-20 has a continuous 20 HP rating above N RPM. Nor does it say at what ambient temperature range this applies.

If you measured the DC voltage and current from the capacitor bank to the spindle drive you can estimate the power to the motor. A snap on Fluke Hall device current probe will allow you to measure DC currect without opening the wire.

HAAS continues to use the wrong units for torque. Torque is not measured in ft-# but rather by #-ft. This incorrect useage is propogated by ignorant torque wrench manufacturers. See the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, and I suspect most if not all college physics textbooks. Note ft-# is used to measure work. If you raise 1# 1ft, then you have done 1 ft-# of work, and you have stored 1 ft-# of energy. This has no relation to torque until other factors are included, RPM, power, and time.

Also notice that below some speed the drive is constant torque. Above this speed it is approximately constant HP.

.

You know what I'd liketo see from Haas?
I'd like to see a lube oil pump that didn't cost as much as a used car.
I'd like to see a service guy that didn't try to RAPE me on padded service hours. I'd like to see someone actually bring the correct parts and repair the machine right the first time instead of charging me three and four service trip travel hours (four round trip hours for a 1 hour trip).
I'd like to see someone put a stop to the $500 floppy drive.
I'd like to see Haas make a lathe thatsomething ...ANYTHING doesn't break every stinking month.

I don't mean to be negative. I truely don't. But this 2004 SL10 is bar none, the worst machine I have EVER owned.
So, That's what I'd like to see Haas address.

But I don't think it's gonna happen.

I would like that the cursor bar in the offset panel would follow the input on the jog keys.

070614-1927 EST USA

HAAS continues to use the wrong units for torque. Torque is not measured in ft-# but rather by #-ft. This incorrect useage is propogated by ignorant torque wrench manufacturers. See the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, and I suspect most if not all college physics textbooks. Note ft-# is used to measure work. If you raise 1# 1ft, then you have done 1 ft-# of work, and you have stored 1 ft-# of energy. This has no relation to torque until other factors are included, RPM, power, and time.

.

The way I understand this, as a once Math major/Physics minor, is relatively simple.

A ft*lb or lb*ft are one in the same. Doesn't matter which way it's stated. Unlike mph, (mi/hr), the ft*lb is a multiplication where mi/hr is a division. In other words, for ft*lb, if ft=1 and lb=2, then 1*2=2*1. For mi/hr, if mi=1 and hr=2, then 1/2 does not = 2/1.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but from what I remember, this is correct.

070618-2209 EST USA

gizmo_454:

It has nothing to do with multiplicativeness. It has to do with names of units of measure.

Treated as one type of measurement TORQUE is not the same measurement as WORK. These are two different types of measurement. And they have different names for their units of measurement. One of the names of a unit of measurement of TORQUE is #-ft, and another is NewtonMeter. Both have the force element in the name first.

To distinguish TORQUE measurements from WORK there is a different name for the unit of work and it is ft-#, etc.

(edit)
My 40th Edition of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics defines under Torque on p 3171
Pound-foot = 1.3558 x 10 to the 7 power dyne-centimeters

Under Work and Energy on p 3167-3168
Foot-pound = 0.138255 kilogram-meter (edit 2) here is an inconsistency in that kilogram-meter is being used instead of meter-kilogram(end edit 2)

My College Physics book by Haussman and Slack is lost, but I believe they made an important differentiation between the said units.

(end edit)

.

070619-0648 EST USA

Two more references:

My high school physics book Physics Part One Mechanics by Max J. Irland and E. E. Ensign.

On page 8-1 under Work the units are defined as foot-pounds. Also listed are "joules, kilogram-meters, foot-poundals, inch-ounces, etc."
On page 6-4 under Torque the units are defined as pounds-feet.


In Electrical Engineers Handbook by Pender and McIlwain, John Wiley & Sons, 1947 printing are references also.

On page 1-54 Table 14 units of torque are shown as pound-feet and their metric equivalents.
On the next page 1-55 under Work in Table 16 the units of work are shown as foot-pounds.


My physics professors were the primary persons to emphasize the difference in the unit names.


Now consider the logical reason for different names. Suppose everyone in the world was named John Smith, then the name would serve no useful purpose to distinguish different persons. We use names to identify things. And that is the case here. If I talk about #-ft, then by the name I have an immediate association with torque. Whereas, if I talk about ft-#, then the indication is work.

In the equation
HP = RPM * T / 5252
I have both work and torque. HP is the rate of doing work, 550 ft-#/second. If I apply torque thru a distance (angular), then I do work. If I apply a torque, but do not move, then I am doing 0 work. These are different entities, and deserve different names for both the entities and their units.

If I write the equation
x = f * d
then this can represent many different physical conditions depending upon with what I associate x, f, and d. The equation is good for Ohm's law given the correct association. Or work or torque or temperature, and so on. To make use of this equation I need useful and distinguishable names for the variables and constants.

.

gar,

not to drag this out any longer than it should be, but do a search on the net for pound-foot. All it will bring up it foot-pound. and here is the definition provided by Wikipedia:

Foot-pound force
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The foot-pound force, or simply foot-pound (symbol: ft·lbf) is an English unit of work or energy. It is also a unit of torque.

After considerable searching, I could not locate anything on pound foot at all. Every search for pound foot only brings up foot pound.

Good luck.

gar,

not to drag this out any longer than it should be, but do a search on the net for pound-foot. All it will bring up it foot-pound. and here is the definition provided by Wikipedia:

Foot-pound force
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The foot-pound force, or simply foot-pound (symbol: ft·lbf) is an English unit of work or energy. It is also a unit of torque.

After considerable searching, I could not locate anything on pound foot at all. Every search for pound foot only brings up foot pound.

Good luck.


If your Physics Instructors taught you to use foot pound or pound feet interchangeably regardless whether you were dealing with work or torque they were out to lunch.

The units of the two properties are identical; a force multiplied by a distance but by convention energy is foot pound, i.e. distance first force second, while torque is pound feet, force first then distance. This is done simply to distinguish between the two.

I suppose you can always flout convention but then if you are misunderstood it is your fault not the person who misunderstands you.

070620-2157 EST USA

gizmo_454:

Because a search of the internet with Google or something else does not result in a hit on pound-feet relating to torque does not mean you have done very good research. The internet is not the only or necessarily a very good source of information, and many times it is incorrect. However, the internet can be very useful.

I had a prof by the name of Wilson P. Tanner. An internet search uncovered a discussion of a radio message from Wilson P. Tanner on 7 Dec 1941 from a PB-Y to Pearl Harbor indicating their involvement in the sinking of a sub. This occurred prior to the actual attack on Pearl. Was this my prof or not? I do not know. But resulting from the search there are very interesting discussions on events and knowledge that existed for at least a year before 7 Dec. Try these two searches with Google:
"Wilson P. Tanner"
"Wilson P. Tanner" pearl harbor

(edit)
Use Google to search for
"pound-feet"
This results in 304,000 hits.
(end edit)


Relative to Wikipedia: under Torque you will find
"The SI unit for torque is the newton metre (N m). In U.S. customary units, it is measured in pounds-feet (lb-ft) (a.k.a. "foot-pounds"). "
I disagree with the inclusion of the a.k.a. because this helps devalue what should be a clear and accurate definition. This certainly contributes to the dumbing down of our general education. Basics need to be taught accurately and reinforced to provide clarity which in turn helps communication.

Now for some more examples:

Design of Machine Members by Vallance and Doughtie, University of Texas, McGraw-Hill, 1951, page 271 "T = torque, lb-in." .

Analytical Mechanics for Engineers, Seely and Ensign, University of Illinois, John Wiley and Sons, 1921 thru 1948, page 138, just above Problems, "Frictional moment .... 20,300 lb.-in." .

The Gasoline Automobile, Heldt, Engineering Editor, Automotive Industries, 1911-1920, page 55, Y-axis includes "Pounds-Feet" .

Alternating-Current Machinery, Bailey and Gualt, University of Michigan, McGraw-Hill, 1951, page 139 about 2/3 down, "Tr is the torque factor in pound-feet"

A few years ago when talking with an engineer at one of the torque wrench manufacturers I mentioned the subject of the mislabeling of the units of torque on their wrenches. His response was that he has been trying to get them to make the change.

My reason for mentioning this from time to time, this means all the time when I have contact with assembly line people and process engineers, is that to get a change in the mislabeling requires repetitive education of as many people as possible.

I think I have given enough historical examples from different sources to prove my point.

If you look at a wide variety of different threads and posts on this Forum you will see how difficult communication is because of the use of incorrect terms. A thyristor is not a thyrector for example. This discussion occurred on CNCZONE.

.

I digress to my original statement. My statement is accurate. Also, your statements are accurate. To differentiate torque and energy, they are noted differently, but in the sense of the math behind it, they are the same.

pound foot (lbf ft or lb ft)
a traditional unit of torque. Torque is the tendency of a force to cause a rotation; it is the product of the force and the distance from the center of rotation to the point where the force is applied. Thus it can be measured in pounds of force times feet of distance. One pound foot is equal to approximately 1.355 818 newton meter (N·m) in SI units. Algebraically, torque has the same units as work or energy, but it is a different physical concept. To stress the difference, scientists and engineers traditionally measure torque in pound feet (or newton meters) and work or energy in foot pounds (or joules).
© Russ Rowlett and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Anyway, I concede we three are correct in our own right. Just looking at it from different points of view.

Hope you are having a good weekend!

:cheers:

.... Algebraically, torque has the same units as work or energy, but it is a different physical concept. To stress the difference, scientists and engineers traditionally measure torque in pound feet (or newton meters) and work or energy in foot pounds (or joules).[/I]
© Russ Rowlett and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Anyway, I concede we three are correct in our own right. Just looking at it from different points of view.

Hope you are having a good weekend!

:cheers:

No. Gar and I are correct, you are wrong. Here is a quote from one of your earlier posts: "A ft*lb or lb*ft are one in the same. Doesn't matter which way it's stated.

However as Rowlett says torque is a different physical concept to energy so they are differentiated by the order in which the units are placed.

Sorry Geof. As I said above, from my point of view, I am right, to a degree. I look at it from a math standpoint, and mathematically speaking they are the same. What their traditional meaning is, IS different in how it is WRITTEN. But the math is the same no matter how you look at it.

If I am wrong, I am wrong and I will always be wrong. Why we Americans had to screw everything up with our written words are beyond me. The metric standard has N*m and joules to define the difference. Which makes more sense than just flipping the words around. It's too confusing.

Never the less. I am done with this, whether I am right or wrong, this little matter is not worth the time to debate. There are too many things in life to do to spend the next six weeks debating it.

Have a good weekend

....Never the less. I am done with this, whether I am right or wrong, this little matter is not worth the time to debate. There are too many things in life to do to spend the next six weeks debating it.

Have a good weekend

I have taught college level physics, did it for many years actually. You remind me of students I had who were to stubborn to accept when they were wrong in the context of the point upon which they disagreed. Torque and energy are physical concepts, looking at them from a math stand point is wrong, math is merely the tool that is used to manipulate them. It is similar to speed and velocity: To a mathematician they are indistinguishable but to a physicist they are very different and using them interchangeably is wrong.

And here I thought multiplication was commutative :D

If the units of an equation work out to lb-ft or ft-lb, there is no difference in the resultant quantity.

Torque is the instantaneous force applied through an arm that has not yet rotated, but if allowed to do so, will begin to perform work, because work is an accumulation of torque applied over time and moving a load. You will not be getting any ft-lbs of work done with zero torque.

The potential to do work is different than actually doing the work, but the electrical energy supplied to the motor will be similar, whether the motor is stalled by a brake, or whether it is successfully moving its load. How would they tell down at the generating station whether that motor is doing work or not? All they know is that they have to input the same amount of energy into the power grid to make that circuit work. Whether the result of the power is heat coming out of the stalled motor, or the load moving is just subjective observation subject to the whim of the observer's attention :D Thus, the old school teacher's quip (I remember mine saying this) about "no work being done if the load is not moved' is just bull, because some work is being done to create the torque, he's just chosen to ignore that fact.

070625-1033 EST USA

Hu:

If I have a cantilevered beam with a weight hanging on the end, then I have torque, and no work being done. There was work done to put the weight on the beam end, but once there we have a static condition.

Also we have many different torque values depending upon where you choose the pivot point. In a statics problem I can choose to put a pivot point anywhere I want and the sum of all torques (moments) are zero and all forces are zero. There is no work done in a static state.

.

Gar,
Isn't that analogous to potential energy? If a rock sits atop a hill and never rolls down, then no energy is released, yet we still say it has potential energy.

The static torque situation is still a potential to do work and is like a battery or other stored energy source.

The unknown quantity is simply the time that you look at the system: before it has moved the load, or after. There is really no difference in what will be, or was, accomplished.

The potential to do work is different than actually doing the work,


Seems like an employee problem. I can relate. I have had people that have plenty of Torque but NO Horsepower!

I dunno what you're all talking about but my rear end has been static for about fifteen minutes now and absolutely NO work is, was or has been done. BTW, my pivot point is located under the chair and unless I pivot it, I'll stay here all afternoon!

Good luck!

070625-2157 EST USA

Hu:

Consider a course in "statics". I do not believe the subject of potential energy, or work done to apply a torque is even discussed. But moments (torques) and forces are the elements discussed. It is a long time ago that I had that course, but some basics remain in my memory.

Consider this example: I have a 300 #-ft full scale torque wrench. This has a long handle, maybe 4 ft. I have a 1500 #-ft clutch that is fully energized. Thus, 300 #-ft won't rotate the clutch. At 4 ft to apply 300 #-ft to the clutch requires 75 # force. Assume that I move 1" with the 75# applied to the lever arm, they usually bend quite a bit. Thus, I have done 75/12 ft-# of work to generate this static 300 #-ft of torque.

Next put a 5 to 1 torque multipler (planetary gear box with no backlash). The torque input to the multiplier is still 300 #-ft and work to get to an output of 1500 #-ft is still the same 75/12 ft-#. Once I achieve that 300 #-ft of torque no more energy is being stored in the system even though I am huffing and puffing holding that torque with my feet slipping on the oily floor.

Torque and work are not the same "animal", even though in some circumstances they are related.

Back to my statics class. This subject is concerned only with non-moving forces and moments and their inter-relationship in structures. I do not need to know anything about work or energy to work in statics. And again I repeat in a static condition the sum of the forces and moments at any point are zero.

.

070625-2157 EST USA

Thus, I have done 75/12 ft-# of work to generate this static 300 #-ft of torque....

And when you relax, the system does the same work on you as the lever straightens out. There is no net work done.

070626-0719 EST USA

Good point Geof.

A correction on my previous post follows. However, this correction has no effect on the argument.

A 4 ft long torque wrench probably has about 3 to 4 inches of deflection at full scale. At 4 inches the work calculation becomes 75*4/12 ft-#.

(edit)
Consider a more theoretical case. All moment arms have no deflection independent of applied force, and force is a vector with no associated weight (mass). Now T (torque) = perpendicular force * moment arm length. I can apply any amount of torque by a suitable choice of force and moment arm. Apply any amount of force and no work is done since the force vector does not move.

Torque and work are as different as are voltage and current.
(end edit)

.

070626-1841 EST USA

Another view on the difference between torque and work.

Torque is produced by a force perpendicular to a moment arm (the distance element). While work results from a force moving parallel to a displacement (distance element).

.

So to go off on a side track here (yes, another one :D) we've been told that momentum is conserved. I don't disbelieve it of course, but exactly how does the proverbial figure skater speed up in rotation when bringing his/her limbs in closer to the axis of rotation. Yeah, we've heard momentum is conserved, but that is as much a statement of the obvious, rather than an explanation of how the acceleration takes place. Torque arm length must have something to do with it. I've never thought it all through, though. What say ye?

070626-2227 EST USA

Hu:

Kinetic energy = mass * velocity squared / 2

A rotating mass at the end of an arm has a tangental velocity of 2 * Pi * radius * rev/sec .

We can not instataneously change the kinetic energy in the system. Thus, energy remains constant as does the mass. To keep the equation in balance as the radius arm is changed there must not be a change in velocity. If the radius changes from 2 ft to 1 ft, then RPM must double to maintain the same tangental velocity.

.

When you are dealing with a rotating system the angular momentum of any particle of mass in the system depends on the rate of rotation and the radial distance of that particle from the center of rotation.

When the skater's arms are extended their center of mass is further from the center of rotation than when they are pulled in. When the radial distance is reduced the rate of rotation has to increase to keep the angular momentum constant.

Torque comes into it because torque is how angular momentum is transferred in or out of the system.

When you bring the mass closer to the center of rotation it is travelling around a smaller circumference; if the rate of rotation stayed the same the peripheral speed of the mass would be slower.

To slow down a moving mass, i.e. to cause a positive or negative acceleration a force has to be applied to the mass. {EDIT; a torque is created; that is a force acting at a distance from a center of rotation.}

But any force is always opposed by an equal and opposite force (Newton said so).

So the (imaginary) force acting to slow down the mass that is moving closer to the center of rotation creates an equal and opposite (imaginary) force that is acting to speed up all the other mass in the system that is not moving closer to or away from the center of rotation.

So things balance out and angular momentum is conserved.

I would like to be able to buy individual segments of the z-axis way covers on my VF3 instead of having to buy the whole thing and the rails.

070630-2103 EST USA

Try putting the following search string in Google with the double quotes just as shown.

"pound-feet" torque vs "foot-pounds" work

i would like to see the coolant drain moved away from where the chips evacuate the machine. the screen is constantly getting clogged

We Have A Vf-6 That Is A Year And A Half Old And A Vf-3 That Is Six Months Old. Between The Two They Have Been Through 6 Spindle Cartridges . The Vf-3 Was Replaced Just Yesterday And After 8 Hours Of Continuous Run It Was Screaming Like A Banshee. Whats Going On With These Things , Our G.m. Is Ready To Have It Loaded On A Flatbed And Sent Back. We Have Purchased 4 Haas Machines In The Last Two Years And Had Nothing But Problems With Spindles ,gearboxes And Axis Motors. And Yes We Get The Standard "i've Never Seen This Problem Before" From The Service Guys . Recently They Got A New Service Tech That Used To Come In And Work On Our Daewoo Equipment And He Tells Me A Different Story. He Says 99% Of The Service Calls He Has Been On Are Spindle Related. Hope They Get There Act Together Soon With Some Better Quality Replacement Parts!!!!

Funny, my vf-3 geared head runs @ 10K all Day, and no problems what so ever. Maybe they keep all the junk doemstic?? What's Geof's take? He owns one or two of em?

Funny, my vf-3 geared head runs @ 10K all Day, and no problems what so ever. Maybe they keep all the junk doemstic?? What's Geof's take? He owns one or two of em?

None of my machines have gearboxes so I cannot provide any really useful comments.

About the only comment I can make is; have the machines been put through the run-in cycle correctly to purge excess oil out of the bearings. I have had to do this several times on some of my machines to prevent serious overheating. But this should have been done by the technician. These must be warranty repairs if it is a six month old machine so I find it funny the factory has not got involved.

The Service Techs Have Done Noise And Vibration Analysis With A Computer And Sent All The Data To Haas And Done The Recommended Repairs And Replacements. I'm Beginning To Wonder If Ther Is A Problem With The Casting That The Spindle Mounts In ( Tight Bore, Out Of Round,flange Mount Machined Surface Not Perpendicular With Bore........ ) What Are Your Thoughts On This?

.....What Are Your Thoughts On This?

Distorting the spindle housing by bolting it onto an inaccurate mounting surface????

That is an interesting idea and would certainly explain why so many spindles fail in the same machine.

But!!

You have two machines and the probability of both of them being off should be so small as to be very unlikely.

I wonder if you could "tram" the end of the housing? Take the spindle cartridge out, put a dial indicator on the table and have the table interpolate a circle around the mounting face. A slow circle so you could watch the dial.

You just received a new spindle and ran it for a continuous 8 hrs?
Did you run the break-in program for the spindle? Is the spindle a 7500 rpm,10k,12k,15k? When you start replacing spindles one after another ... something else is going on. I would go to the back of the machine and check the fittings that are on the spindle air/oil regulator. There are check valves that are brass ... make sure the arrows are pointing downwards .. very important ... then check to see if it is spraying oil when the air is on .. disconnect the hose to see ...

Haas Replaced The 3rd Spindle In The Vf-3 On Wed. They Ran The Break In Cycle That Night. Set The Job Back Up Thur. Morning And Ran All Day,noticed More Noise By The Hour And By 7:00 P.m. It Came To A Screaching Halt.in Reply To Geofs Last Post,i Guess Third Time Was The Charm On Our Vf-6 , It Has Been O.k. For About 6 Months Now.haas Is Going To Send A Spindle With Ceramic Bearings Next And If They Don't Get It Fixed Right This Time I Think It My Be Seeing The Flatbed Back To California . Boss Is Looking At New Fadal In Which We Have To Older Models ,40/20 And 60/30 And Have Been Pretty Reliable Over Last 10 Years. From What I Have Read It Seems The Older Haas Machines Were More Reliable Than Those Of The Last Few Years.

I'd like to see a D&T match just like the H&T match. Been burned by this a few times by changing tool #'s, deleting sections of program with it in, missing one, and then when the tool runs, it reads the D of the tool before it which with my luck usually always has a neg. offset. Just happened today to another guy. He was doing an 8" bore +-.0008 with a copy mill. He changed the tool#, changed the D. The programmer had the tool doing another feature before the bore that was already done so the machinist took that part out of the program deleting the D with it so it ended up running the D from the previous tool which was -.002 which left the bore .004 O/S. Different H&T will alarm(unless off) but a T&D mismatch can be just as devastating.

The VF-10 has a problem with the holes in the auger system allowing to many chips into the coolant tank chip trap (we have to clean two times day). This wouldn't be a big problem as long as there was a way to get to and clean the trap out. Try it sometime, it's a joke. We have had two occasions running lights out, coming back and the whole shop is flooded. Needless to say, we are working on our own modifications to try and correct the problem.

All in all we are happy with our machines (two VF-4's and one VF-10), I wouldn't have a thing to complain about if it wasn't for such a ridiculous design. Not being able to get to something that needs to be cleaned out is a real problem.

A better spindle controller for the SS machines. I was told today that there is no fix for the spindle pulsing and uneven spindle load.

The cut I ran today was 12K 200ipm and the spindle controller could not keep an even spindle load. It ranged from 50% to 120%.

Please find a fix for this problem.

We don't have the chip auger on our VF-1.

I wish there was a larger drain in the auger trough for coolant. It seems like it's just a tiny crack that takes forever to drain. You have to wait for the entire trough to fill up with coolant, and then wash up into the actual drain before you get any coolant going back to the tank.

Furthermore, since we don't have the auger, the chips all just float up around the drain when the trough fills, and make a damn of sorts, making it even harder for coolant to get back into the tank.

On the TM 1 it would be nice if the coolant guard had folding sides so you could put some longer parts on the table. It would even help if the whole guard had a quick detatch.

On the TM 1 it would be nice if the coolant guard had folding sides so you could put some longer parts on the table. It would even help if the whole guard had a quick detatch.

That is what the SawzAll was invented for; you can cut 12 gauge mild steel in a snap :) .

you know what i love doing is getting my new mill in the shop and taking the sawzall to it ooooh ya making chips baby.

That is what the SawzAll was invented for; you can cut 12 gauge mild steel in a snap :) .

My plasma cutter would be even quicker.


Just 'cause I can doesn't mean I should...

its only 4 3/8-16 schs that hold down the tm-1 guards. dont be lazy. u can have it off and back on in 5 mins. (i do it all the time) the time u spend wishing , u could have had it off and 2 parts ran. lets go get ya head in the game...lol

We bought a brand new VF2-ss about two years ago. We already had a VF3 so we knew about Haas. Not the best machine you can buy but still a lot of bang for your buck.
I came in one morning and started up the VF2......Well it had lost it's mind.
It powered up and homed but had lost all its memory tool offsets ect. ect.
So I call for service and they tell me they can't get here for 3 days! That's a min. of 4 days down and still not know what's going on with the machine.

Bummer. Well the guy shows up and fiddles with the control for 45 min. and tells me that the mother board is toast $2,000 bucks for a new one. He goes out to his truck and brings in a box. Well i've been doing this for a few years
and I ask him "If you open that box We will have to pay for a new mother board? He says yes. I said wait a minute. How long have you been fixin Haas machines? He says about a year! I say before you open that box someone with a lot more experiance then you is going to have to tell me the mother board is toast! So he gets on the phone with the head teck and talks to him for about 10 min. Then he blanked the control of all data and reinstalled the software. FIXED it just like new just had to reload all my programs and tool offsets. It cost $100 bucks. A word to the wise!

070807-1301 EST USA

JROM:

We have 5 HAAS machines dating from 1993. Have never had to have the basic machine program reloaded because said program got corrupted. At various times we have had miscellaneous main power problems, including the east coast blackout of several years ago, and no adverse effects. We have had on various occasions CNC programs corrupted.

That reloading the basic machine program made the machine work does not mean the problem has been solved. If a similar problem occurs again, then there is a basic cause that needs to be found. If the software and hardware have no defects or marginal components, then I would expect the machine to run 20 to 30 years without the basic program being corrupted. A hair dryer and CO2 are my standard test tools to look for a temperature sensitive component or board.

I have a customer with a fairly new, few years old, VF-3 that recently, several months ago, had an RS232 problem. Reloading the basic program, you might want to call this the operating system, I choose not to, solved the problem until about 2 weeks ago. I suspect there is a main processor board problem. I have not heard what has been done to correct the problem. This problem exhibits an inability to operate in DNC mode above 19.2 kbaud, but works fine, at 115,2 kbaud, when simply loading programs to HAAS memory.

There seem to be a lot of reports of problems with HAAS machines built in the last few years. But maybe this is because there are so many machines in the field. But I do think it somewhat relates to when they were built.

.

070807-1301 EST USA.....There seem to be a lot of reports of problems with HAAS machines built in the last few years. But maybe this is because there are so many machines in the field. But I do think it somewhat relates to when they were built.

.

Machines pre 2002 in my experience seem to be more or less bug free both hardware- and software-wise.

Between 2002 and 2005 I encountered sloppy attention to mechanical details; bolts not tightened and that sort of thing. Also when the LCD screen was first introduced there were a few serious software bugs; for instance a bolt circle drilling cycle neglecting to retract Z clear of the hole before returning to the center for the bolt pattern. There were also bugs when doing RESTART such as not bothering to go to the correct tool just firing up with whatever was in the spindle.

Since 2005 the mechanical details are better but there are still annoying software issues such as the system going down and needing reloading or reinitializing.

You learn to live with some of them :) .

There are some good legitimate blogs here .. and some good ideas ... I'm tired of reading about Torque and FT/Lbs though ... How about some innovative ideas or issues that are troublesome. Thanks in advance.

Lots of good stuff here. I'm in agreement with a better coolant/ chip auger drain system.

We bought a vf-7 last year. We were very excited about it just because it should be better, right? Well, what a piece, they've been out to fix this thing more than our two older machines. The software seems to have so many bugs. You load code and you get this "program integrity" error. Why? You can run the code 10 times and on the 11th time you will get this error. I hate using it, the guy who uses it all the time pretty much has his routine he has to go through when certain things happen, so he is used to it. When I use it I just end up getting frustrated. I'd rather use our VF-8 from 10 years go with the chitty tool changer than the newer VF-7.

With the speed of computers today does it really need to take so long to read through 10,000 lines of code. We have very fast computers now and cheap, put something good in these things.

The high speed machining sucks! Where is the high speed? Is there a "look ahead"? We've called Haas about it and we basically just got "that's just the way it is," or "it's trying to be exact," No attempts to dial in the servos or anything.
Last issue was the machine would alarm because the programmable coolant nozzle wasn't working correctly. What?
The TSC was making weird noises at one point as well, it took them a couple of tries to fix that.
Broken fittings in the lube system letting air in the lines.

What's with the super slow rotating side mount tool changer? If you have a tool on the other side of the carosel, it's rediculous how long it takes to get to that tool. Put a stronger motor in that thing or something. Why does it have to stop at every tool it passes? Is there a reason it can't be a smooth motion? Put an encoder on it or something.

The good thing about the machine is that because the spindle is so true we do get some nice finishes. We do alot of 3D contouring.

I hope the boss ventures out to try another brand with our next machine. He's not very pleased with the machine himself.

I sometimes wonder who is designing this stuff, do they use it? Do they try it first? Do they look at from a Machinist's view, or an operators view?

Something that I think would be cool would be an "actual feedrate" and a "programmed feed rate". The machine is not actually doing 300IPM all the time, let's see what it's really doing. Would be helpful I think in dialing things in.

070911-0915 EST USA

HAILINHAAS:

Do you work for HAAS?

If so, then get HAAS to consistently use the correct units for torque, and you won't hear these comments relative to HAAS.

Even though we have not had problems with loss of the basic machine program on any of our machines I am beginning to hear of more cases where a lightning storm has caused this problem. Good circuit design can virtually eliminate these problems if there are no component failures in the memory or associated circuitry from the lightning.

The Cycle Start button needs to be more reliable. Possibilities are a reed switch, Cherry gold cross bar, Hall device or other solid state magnetic sensor, and there are others.

A much more adequate index in the manual.

DPRNT should allow any 7 bit character to be output.

When sending a program, new machines, eliminate any leading zeroes that that make the O-nummber greater than 4 digits. Then the program can be loaded on an older machine without editing, and makes O-numbers simpler.

On loading a program from an external source (RS232, floppy, or whatever) load whatever comes in, good or bad, flag all lines that have an error, and inhibit execution of the program if an error exists. This would greatly easy troubleshooting when there is a communication or data error because one can get some information from what is seen in memory, even if it is total garbage.

Provide registers (#-address) that display the warm-up compensation values.

.

Haas listens to their customers. Haas needs your feedback in order to improve on issues that sometimes do not get back to the factory. This is one of the avenues that we check to see what people are saying. You might find out that your issues gets resolved by posting them here.

fix the coolent return lashup so it does not clog up and overflow onto the floor.

I know tht but you have to go thru some steps I would like for my operator's to hit one button. I myself have no problem with that but when you hire button pushers sometimes it is easier!

wow i feel the love for your workers !

Speaking of coolant flooding , did anyone see the most recent American Chopper and their Haas CNC Mill flooding their tooling room the next morning when Jim the machinist came in, LOL. It seems you guys are not the only ones with the problem.

also, get rid of the "dog leg rapid", just change it to a straight line. This has bitten us in the past in cavitys. I know there is a parameter to change this to a straight line but it also does not work.

How about a pallet changer for a VF-1 or 2?

how about a bench top cnc router?

I would really like to see a GOOD chip conveyor system for the mills.... Make it standard equipment as well, the augers get clogged, then they bend, then they don't work for crap.

I would also like to see them keep better tabs on the used or refurbished machines that are for sale by their reps....

Edit: I would also like to see them offer some of their small machines in 220V single phase for those that live out in the middle of NOWHERE and don't want to mess with phase converters.

Ken

Hailing Haas.
I'm not going to do any bashing. Been there and I'm all done. I own two Haas machines. A 2000 Mini mill and a 2004 SL10 with a servo300. The mill has been exemplary. It just runs and runs. IT runs about 90% stainless. Just keeps on going. My SL10 on the other hand has had some issues. They are very well documented both at the factory as well as with Selway. I understand that Selway machine is responsible for a very large portion of the anual machine sales for Haas. I have a suspicion that this is the reason the factory continues to do NOTHING to encourage Selway to improve their customer service.
Haas sells a lot of machines. Haas has a service issue that is not being resolved. Vince Selway was in my shop to mend fences with my company. But I think he only stopped by because he heard I was looking at a $300k horizontal Mori.
My machine (the SL10) continues to be plagued with low lube presure alarms. I can't seem to get the problem resolved.
Thiose of us on theis forum that are shop owners have a hefty investment in machine tools. To me, service will either make or break a deal. This seems to be something that no one wants to address.
As I said, I'm not here to bash either Haas or Selway. I'm over that now. But someone ought to be doing sonething about the issue.
I mentioned this very subject way earlier in this thread. Nobody has responded to it.

PBMW -

Low lube alarms ... Go to diagnostic page and tell me what low lube is ... either a 1 or 0

Second there are restrictors at the lube panel .. I've seen where these could be put on in the wrong direction. The brass fittings .. the restrictor .. comes from the spindle air/oil regulator .. see if the arrows are pointing the correct way. There is a sensor behind the lube reservoir .. this also could give you low lube alarms if it is not working.

Let me know .. I'm pretty confident I can point you in the right direction to get this resolved.

No need to bash at me .. I'm just here to help. Sorry for your troubles you have been having .. and if Selway can't get your low lube alarm to go away .. then maybe someone at Haas service can look into it a little further.

But the main thing is to get your machine running without any alarms.

I can send you pic of the restrictor if need be.

Thank you Sir.
My maintance guy has been into the sensor and I believe it is in fact working. I'll ask him in the morning. And yes, a pic of the restrictor would be helpfull.
My point, though, is that there IS a service issue. I know people that are not in the Selway terratory are not part if this issue. But it exists none the less.
I have a customer in Seattle that is an all Haas shop. Many machines. I think something like 15 or 18. I asked the General Mgr how to improve service. He had nothing to tell me. They have everything from VF2's to VF10's. three SL20's a couple of SL30's and just bought a SL40. The SL40 has broken it's gearbox in the first week. Many software issues. It took over two weeks to get it up again. Schedules don't wait for down machines and neither do customers. I got pressed to run those parts on my Daewoo. Impacted my schedule but they are a good customer...
I think my point is, that Haas (the factory) is not putting pressure on it's largest distributor to improve it's service record because of the dollars that distributor generates. On the west coast, that is a big deal. I bought three new machines last year. I'll buy a couple more larger machines next year. I did not consider another Haas because of the service related issues that I see. It was not the machine that kicked it out of consideration. It was the dealer. I considered a Matsuura Horizontal. Very nice machine. Stout.... But it's not going to happen because it's supported by the same dealer.
Please understand that I am not bashing either Haas or Selway machine tool. But this thread is about what we'd like to see from Haas. What I'd like to see is the same level of service and support that the rest of the world gets. I have heard the line from the dealer that they are gettin it together. I have not seen that to be true and very few shop owners in the Puget Sound area that run Haas machines have seen that either. I think the factory is the only one that can fix this.

Hailing Haas
The diagnostics page, low lube bit is a "0".
The pressure sensor measures good. By that I mean there is a change with pressure from the pump. (I'm relating this to you second hand, as I did not test it.) Where are the restrictors located? Seems that this alarm gets more frequent as the machine gets warmer.

How long does it take for your way lube pressure to drop if you manually activate it less than 3 min if so you have a leak in your system if not you most likely have a bad pump.If you have a bad restrictor you will get no alarm because the pressure will hold. The leak could be very small and still cause a pressure drop.
Please give us a call if you need any help
Selway machine tools

PBMW
Please call Selway and ask for the NW service mgr. I would be happy to resolve any issues that you may have with your SL-10.

NWMGR

I am checking the time it takes to drop pressure now.

Thank you Gentlemen.


Update. It's taken it over 5 min to drop 10 psi.
It starts out at 40 psi. 5 min later it's at 30 psi.

Check parameter 117. It should be set to 108,000.
NWMGR

It is set at 108000

PBMW
We can have a tech there Monday or Tuesday. Please call to schedule and we will resolve this alarm. I am having trouble locating any SL-10's in the NW that have had a 121 alarm in the past 6 months or we would have called you directly.
NWMGR

PBMW
I think it is important that I clarify a few things about your post on 9/26/07. Since this is a public forum I feel this is necessary since you are posting a reply that everybody can read and I feel that both sides are represented fairly. We would like to do anything possible to help you but you need let us know you have a problem.
1) You have not called your Haas dealer since 8/26/06 when we were at your shop on a Saturday fixing your machine after you crashed it. There is no record of any 121 low lube alarms.
2) We did have to make 3 trips to your shop to fix machine but I believe we credited your account for some of the travel.
3) We only have 4 SL-40 gearbox machines in the NW. The gearbox in question did in fact go bad after running 24/7 for 3+ months. The customer called in on 8/14/07 at 7:15 AM. We were there at 10:00 AM the same day to diagnose the problem. The new part was ordered for next day delivery. The tech worked until 9:00 PM on 8/15/07 and got the machine up and running. We have kept an eye on this machine ever since and it has ran perfectly. The customer was extremely happy with the fast response that Haas and Selway provided to get his machine up and running in less than 2 days.
4) There has not been 1 software issue with this machine since install.
This responce is in no way to discredit anyone but we thought it important to get the facts straight. I wrote earlier that we could have a tech at your facility Monday or Tuesday but have not heard from you yet. Again, we can not help you if you do not call your dealer.
NWMGR

I do not know for certain how long the SL40 ran. I don't work there. What I was told by the department manager is what I related.
I'll give you guys a call Monday to see what we can do about this oil pump situation.
I have been having the machine serviced by Mark Harris at CNC Sales.
But as I said, I am not interested in bad mouthing anyone. It don't do no good.
I'll talk to you Monday morning.

PBMW-

I see that you got some attention. Did you get the problem resolved?
I made a mistake by saying restrictor ... I meant check valve. When this is installed backwards ... it lets air get into the oil line and you will get low lube alarms. I'm glad to see that Selway does care. It doesn't matter if you own 100 machines or 1, new or used, you are part of the Haas family. Anyone that owns a Haas is in the family group. Consider that you have people on your side.

....It doesn't matter if you own 100 machines or 1, new or used, you are part of the Haas family. Anyone that owns a Haas is in the family group. Consider that you have people on your side.

I own somewhere between that number of machines. And I would also like to own one or more of the new HIT210 if the people at Haas could just get off sitting on their fingers and get the ******* things made.

I believe there are some in stock ... place your order with your dealer

I believe there are some in stock ... place your order with your dealer

I placed an order for two in April this year and since then have been given the royal run around of "delivery next month, no next month, no next month etc." Now my dealer doesn't even get empty promises. Meanwhile I have thousands of dollars worth of custom rotary fixtures sitting unused because the indexers needed are not here.

Imagine this, you have just entered a comment or a line or two of code on the screen. Now before you press the enter key you realize that you entered the wrong number or missed a x y z . Why cant you just use the arrow keys to move inside of the entry line instead of having to enter the code then scroll and Insert,Alter or Delete ... Its the simple things that get annoying on a daily basis ...

071026-0957 EST USA

Limit switches --- mechanical lever arm type vs proximity. There seem to be quite a number of comments here and other places relative to limit switch errors. Apparently these complaints come from users with machines using prox switches for limit switches.

If you look at the number of problems from users with prox switches vs those with mechanical switches, then it appears like HAAS should go back to mechanical switches, or find a way to keep chips away from the prox switches.

.

I placed an order for two in April this year and since then have been given the royal run around of "delivery next month, no next month, no next month etc." Now my dealer doesn't even get empty promises. Meanwhile I have thousands of dollars worth of custom rotary fixtures sitting unused because the indexers needed are not here.


I ordered a new Haas TM1 on Oct 1. The salesman said that they could have the machine in my shop and running within 10 - 12 days of the order being placed. Now that the order has been in for 4 weeks they tell me that it will be end of December at best for delivery ... maybe later. If it doesn't get delivered by 12/31 I lose my section 179 opportunity for 2007. They say it is out of their control, Haas won't release it and they tell me Haas can be really slow on shipping replacement parts too. Hmmm, I am hoping I didn't make a big mistake going with Haas.

In the past I have had good service from Haas regarding prompt shipping of parts; not that I have needed many. This episode with the indexers was out of character, however, I had to get a replacement hydraulic system for my SL10 and while the shipping was prompt, within four days, they sent the wrong unit then took three weeks to send the correct one.

Based on comments that I have seen on the zone here from people with other makes of machines I don't think Haas is worse than most. In fact I think a few years ago they were better than most. It does depend quite a bit I think on the relationship your dealer has with the factory. In your case the promise came from the salesman, before he had contacted the factory?? I tend to trust delivery estimates from salesmen about as far as I can lift a TM1 with my pinky finger.

Gar,

I been round, and Haas isn't the only guy using proximity switces, I know matsuura is using them for sure, and they cost how much more? There are always issues with them, and most of the time it has come down to house cleaning. If you don't take the time to clean the machines, your gonna run into trouble.

maxine -
What type of TM-1 did you order .. TM-1P? .. Special options? .. or just a standard TM?

maxine -
did you go to the Haas website and see that they have an inventory sale going on .. There is like 7 TM's on there ready to go.

In 2005 we were in the market for a new CNC Mill. The shop already had a VF3 that was working fine for us so I decided to go with another Haas machine.
We are in southern Ca. not to far from the factory, about 50 miles. So we placed an order for a new VF2SS and were told it would take about 4 weeks till delevery. We were paying cash for the machine so they were glad to bump us up the line a little. About a week later the salesman called me and said "we have a machine sitting on the dock just like you ordered with a few small additional options (about 1k extra) that we could have right now!
I guess the deal fell thru for someone else. So we had our brand new machine on the floor in less then 2 weeks from placing the order. I think it has alot to do with your salesman and how hard they work for you. The squeeky wheel gets the grease! The only problem that Haas has now is that they are selling so many machines that their support system can't keep up with all the machines they have out there. It's not uncomon for it to take a week to get to you if you have a problem (BUMMER) That said, Haas gives you a lot of bang for your buck.

.... "we have a machine sitting on the dock just like you ordered with a few small additional options (about 1k extra) that we could have right now!
I guess the deal fell thru for someone else. So we had our brand new machine on the floor in less then 2 weeks from placing the order......

We got lucky in the same way with a VF2. Ten days from order to install and we are 27hours non stop driving North. This was unusual because the next one was around six weeks.

Just put my down payment on a new VF2 today and they said the same thing you guys are saying. They have another machine someone ordered but just canceled on and I can have it next week, just has one more extra on it then I was going to order. OR VF2's are 3-4 weeks out now anyways. I was expecting a longer wait because of the deals they are giving on them now.
I need it now so this works good for me.