While reading this site and a couple of threads in particular, I think it is obvious that most / all people here are interested in a set of nice and thorough plans for building a cheap cnc router, or converting a mill or lathe to cnc. Obviously these plans should be suited for the beginner with minimal tools and use readily avialable materials either locally or over the net.

I would be interested in getting together a few of this site's gurus together to develop these plans. I am by no means a cnc guy, but can offer some cad work and good writing skills to help with the actual plan development. I need people with the technical knowledge to help.

Any interested parties, please reply with comments, suggestions, etc.

Dan

junkmailacct@sbcglobal.net

Hack,

I hear ya. I think it'd be a shame if we couldnt get together some drawings for new people to at least get a general idea of what's going on.

I do a lot of cad drawing, and have built three tables. feel free to contact me if you think there's some way I could help.

owen

owhite@tigr.org

I would be interested to help out with a plans set. Probably the most confusing to a new hobbyist is the electronics. So I would contribute to that section.

I am just starting my own router design and will be developing a unipolar driver board employing the Allegro chipsets.

Their best micro-stepping PWM drive can do 36 V at up to 3A per phase. I will be building an opto-isolated 4 axis driver with limit and home switch inputs. The board has onboard current limit adjustment and LCD display of the current limit setting via a PIC ucontroller and 2 line LCD. I already have the schematic designed, but I need to get some boards made and I am waiting for chip samples. Allegro seems to be rather tight fisted with their chip distribution, which is a problem for small volume buyers like hobbyists.

Eldon.

I'd like to contribute to some CAD drawings. I am somewhat of an amateur, but I can do most 2d operations and some 3d operations. But hey, anything that I can help do is practice.

I also think that the electronics are a good idea. Basic schematics, info on stepper motors and a glossary of fairly common terms would al be a plus

-Tei

teilhardo@yahoo.com

I agree with the goal. I started designing my own and that has evolved as I have built. My suggestion is cheap and available. Along the klingenberg (sp) lines, using roller blade bearings (common, different grades different prices, but inexpensive in comparison to precision rails an bearings). While I'm pursuing a moving gantry, I would recommend a fixed gantry for those with limited budget and tools, and if I were to start over it would be a fixed gantry with a 42" Y axsis and a 18" Y, using steel pipe on the y, roller bearings on the x, and mdf as a construction material.
Let me know what I can do to help, but at this point I'm well into the learning phase, not an expert.

Phil

I forgot to mention that I don't think I can be to useful on the design side. I have not had the "pleasure" of building my own DIY router, I am the happy owner of a CNC taig mill. But I am planning to build a router. I thik that Pminmo has good ideas on what type of materials to use though.

I think Balsaman had some of the right idea, and what I was referring to as a fixed gantry here :

http://webpages.charter.net/pminmo/rec0.jpg

I think by making the y longer with open ends (i.e. +/- a couple of inches so long pieces could be routed)

Incorporating bearingsetups such as xairflyer and Jer21:

http://webpages.charter.net/pminmo/rec1.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/pminmo/rec2.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/pminmo/rec3.jpg

is there way I would go if starting over.

Pminmo

p.s. I have a simpler driver design I'm going to post when I get a chance.

well, looks like we have people that would contribute to the drawing. s'what should get drawn up? I think its about picking a particular design and then going at it, perhaps with emphasis on all the variations that could be made for each part. It'd also be helpful to elect a general manager that was looking at the drawings and putting in requests for what other designs would be required.

i would say count me in, but i am working on some similar ideas indipendantly - however, i would love to compose a "book cover" for the thing, or a "Style sheet" that would be a template for you guys.. something along the lines of what i put in my "18 page machine design" in the opensource cnc file section.

i like the idea of it being a "cnczone.com" planset, so it would either be free, or come with a $5 donation to the site, or something.. i really like some of the MDF routers here -they look good, and probably work well.

maybe a good place to start would be digging around and everyone comming to a consensus on what ideas work best in terms of leadscrews, linear guides, motor boards, etc.

i think the allegro chips are to hard for a beginner to solder... some sort of pic-driven H-bridge bipolar might be best in terms of ease of assembly and cost.. the hudle there is programming the chip.. but at least microchip.com is very generous with samples.. ive got 25 pic chips in nice little cases from ordering samples over the last year.. you can request 5 of their top-of-the-line $20 chip, and get them a week later for free....

maybe offering a blank PCB with the programmed PIC chip for $15 per axis would be reasonable? and the h-bridge idea means high-current.... i know there are some opensource boards out there like this...

I like where vacpress is going. And I'm thinking it would help to break up the project into bite-size chunks. One person handles the base, another the gantry, another the z-axis. Opinions?

I think in my mind that since this is going to be a group effort, that perhaps no one should really profit from the design work, and that maybe these plans don't need to be in print so to speak but hosted on CNC Zone. If we could get some input from CNC Admin that would be great. If we could provide these for a small fee downloadable in say PDF format or something with the proceeds going to the site to help cover bandwith, storage space etc.

Any other thoughts?

Dan

my thoughts are not to worry about costs until we actually produce something. just in the interest of minimizing disucussion about policy and focusing on getting started.

Now this looks interesting ;)

I'm gona keep my eye on yall but why not just make the plans open sorce...

I'd vote to license it under open source too. Anyone know of a good license that applies to plans or hardware designs?

Ilike the idea of helping your fellow hobbiest out i would gladly pay a nominal fee for useful information and ideas

My 2 cents
First I Really Really Really like the cnc zone plans set idea a LOT. A WHOLE LOT. Just what newbies are looking for - something thats had lots of scrutinity, thought, and review - not just a "get rich quick" scheme. Something with real value for the money that they spend.

So - how about we ask CNCAdmin - Paul if he could link it to a donation scheme to support the site? Access to the download of the plans could be tied to an email address, password, whatever makes most sense. I think we could rely on most members not "sharing" the plans - as they support the site.

My thinking here - the users of the 'zone provide the input (plans details development etc - most likely offline, contacts and virtual organization made here). But rather than just give the plans away the site funding is then "bootstrapped" as each new donation - gets a "free set of plans" with a contribution of say $5.00 or more.

Seems like everyone wins.
Cheers - Jim

Considering that so many people have such varyied requirements for a router platform, and that I see people asking questions about routers with capacities ranging from a few inches square to 49x97" and larger, I think any single planset would represent a compromise to a good number of the recipients.

Consequently, rather than creating a planset that is a compromise for so many, why not take a completely different path? An "Inroduction to CNC" first project, that can be used to build whatever router they decide to make?

http://www.cumminstools.com/prodimg/3143.jpg

A 2D X-Y table, with a Z axis option, as a "CNC-101" type of conversion, might get more people into the hobby.

This Cummins cross slide vise (almost identical, save for the level of finish, to the offerings from Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Enco, and others), while small, is superbly built for the price, and provides a very good 2 axis base. Its travel is essentially 4x6 inches, and it is extremely stiff and usable even for metal milling.

Since it sells for $20US, and similar units are commonly available worldwide for similarly low prices, it seems like a reasonable and cheap platform from which to work.

If simply clamped to a drill press/mill, it would produce a very workable 2 axis machine. By implementing a simple 3rd axis, you get a fully functional, but admittedly small router table. Attaching it to a wood lathe would give the necessary 2 axes for a CNC lathe.

A perfect "starter machine?"

It would also serve as a good and stiff platform with which to build parts, mounts, etc for a much larger and more ambitious router... It also eliminates the need for bearings, linear ways, etc...it is all there, and would prove to be a fairly simple conversion.

And, isn't that what we're aiming for? A good "starter" planset that would encourage people to finish the project with relative ease?

Though I've not done this yet, I'm thinking of upgrading the rather pathetic included leadscrews with hardware store allthread. Yes, I said upgrading...it's that bad. By threading in some nylon "spacers" and then threading the nylon, it could be done without significant modification to the original castings...and nylon nuts have extremely low backlash.

-- Chuck Knight

I vote for plans for a small and cheap router that are available free to download. Although I agree with high seas that it is a good idea to have a good way to keep the forum afloat, I think that by allowing anyone to freely dowload the plans from an "organization" that is not making any profit on it will make the downloading party(s) wish to contribute, without having to pay for a product

To chuckknight, I think that that is a good tool, but don't you think that a lot of people would feel like they could go down to their "neighborhoood" home depot and get the parts. They would learn what a leadscrew is, what a delrin nut is (I am still trying to figure this one out) and the basic mechanics to making an automated machine set-up.

I agree with owhite and think that we all need to come up with a certain type of router thats easiest to build, and then agree on very common materials that ALL neighborhood hardware stores have. I think that we need to have a poll where all of the diy router builders vote on how much time they put into their router and what design it was. That way we can find out what design to promote. Now, we need to work out the details of the poll and who to ask...
We're onto something here guys :)
-Tei

Um.. and please do not forget all of those who are not in the USA and have no access to your resources. At some places there is no harbor freight, grizzly, enco, and similars. Even ebay is not a solution when the delivery expenses are over the price of the item.

Using worlwide, non propietary standards will be useful too.

I think a good idea is 'if you can buy it do not build it, but if you cannot buy it, build it this way'. At least time is something we have, but money.. not so sure.

Fer

For what it's worth, the obvious…

I would suggest a design that is as crude as possible; that could be built only with hand tools. Then using provided g-code files, so the builder can start making enhanced/nicer parts for machine, fixtures, etc. That way, starting with a minimalist machine design, someone could use it build up to as nice of a CNC machine as desired. Also, under Open Source, people could contribute g-code for a variety of add-on’s and larger machines that could built using the original ugly duckling design.

Jay

servoguy- that is a good idea - i have thought about making a set of plans that are based around a cd-rom with .dxfs, gcode, and hpgl files of the parts, so people with ANY mill could make it - as its a small robot arm made from 1/8" lexan and 6 "RC hobby servos".

i think that sounds fun - like a model kit, for cheap or free...

I think thats a great idea too. However, lets not forget that every machine you make costs $$. Sure you can get it as junk but that is all time consuming. You can build a cheap machine, then make nicer parts for a bigger machine, but you'll then have to buy bigger motors, probably instead of using roller blade bearings get encouraged by your success and opt for more expensive linear bearings, and pretty soon you're up to your eyeballs in credit card debt:)
Vac has the right idea about the dxf's and g codes. We need to have 3 machines on a cd of downoadable on pdf.
$-(made out of mdf, roller bearings, hardwood, readily available leadscrews, delrin nuts, unipolar controller, small steppers)
$$- (hybrid mdf and aluminum, linear bearings, igus slides, larger steppers, bipolar driver, acme leadscrews)
$$$- (aluminum, linear bearings, thk rails, ballscrews, servo motors, servo controllers, etc...)

Ferenczyg, sorry, I was a little bit to naive as to where to get the supplies, didn't quite think globally:D


-Tei

Originally posted by teilhardo

Ferenczyg, sorry, I was a little bit to naive as to where to get the supplies, didn't quite think globally:D

-Tei

Nah, no problem at all, my comment was more in the direction of 'non specific' items. Do not forget that here in Europe we are really envious sometimes about your resources ;)

Your right, never really thought much about that. Here I can get anything in a matter of days, its amazing what we all take for granted

ferenczyg - yes, but your countries are beautifull, and no insane rhetoric about "freedom" that dosent seem to fit with the cultural and philosophical morass that is America. we have such a propaganda steeped society that its no wonder we blunder into things so much. we are rather like an obnoxious, dangerous, pushy attack dog that tries to put everyone in their place just for existing..territorial pissings, and whatnot...

we may have hideous stores like home de(s)pot, where i get so much stuff, but we also suffer from real inner-tension.. not to mention an insane murder rate.

this may be more of an "urban" viewpoint though.. or cynical..

Don't forget Wal-Mart, Crate and Barrel, McDonalds, Target, Taco Bell, and the all-too prevalent Starbucks, although I think the latter is becoming more and more a global phenomenon!

Originally posted by vacpress
ferenczyg - yes, but your countries are beautifull, and no insane rhetoric about "freedom" that dosent seem to fit with the cultural and philosophical morass that is America. we have such a propaganda steeped society that its no wonder we blunder into things so much. we are rather like an obnoxious, dangerous, pushy attack dog that tries to put everyone in their place just for existing..territorial pissings, and whatnot...

we may have hideous stores like home de(s)pot, where i get so much stuff, but we also suffer from real inner-tension.. not to mention an insane murder rate.

this may be more of an "urban" viewpoint though.. or cynical..

I think that enjoying the real sense of freedom is a matter of tolerance. And about 'urbanism' I love cities, the bigger the better (4 million people here in Madrid) but too much people always creates inner-tensions as you say.

And better go back to the topic asap ;) , this is one of the most interesting threads I've readen here..

Fer

i hope to go to spain as part of my next trip to europe. so much art to see there. :)

yes - this is an interesting topic. i think that alot of the needed info is here allready, in the form of extensive build threads and pictures. getting soemthing like this to materialize is very difficult though. i think someone needs to look at opensource software and findout how those groups of people work together..because im sure most projects start out with 1 person doing a massive, heroic coding cycle, then releasing his valuable product free - then people help because its so valuable..

Instead of a set of plans which won't suit but a few, why not make a tutorial explaining how routers work, what the different parts are called, where to get parts, etc.....

Seems to me most of the newbies ask the same old questions over and over. It's hard to have to read through every thread on this forum trying to gain a modicum of knowledge here and there. That wastes time and will just lead to newbies asking "Where do I start?" over and over.

1. We need a general FAQ.
2. We need tutorials from different authors.
3. After all that perhaps a few plans would be a good idea.


Just my 2 cents, and worth every penny you paid!

I think the three levels of building proposed by Theilardo are a good idea. I think the first desicions to make are:

-construction difficulty:
I propose starting with the plans for the '$' level, and quoting: "$-(made out of mdf, roller bearings, hardwood, readily available leadscrews, delrin nuts, unipolar controller, small steppers)".
-kind of machine: I propose moving gantry. Moving table is easier, so discussion welcome
-Size: I proposse to discuss the workable area, not the size of the machine itself. I proposse about 12"x18" of work piece capability (and this is the moment to find a rigth compromise/decission between metric and imperial issues..)
-Electronics: we have a thread that I think is OK for the electronics:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2854

I can make a eagle schematic and one-side-pcb with no problem (I think), the components for that board are practically universal, and by a toner-transfer process the ppl will be able to move steppers in a couple of days. Even if you think it will be useful I can try to add some kind of Current chopping in order to avoid the use of bulky resistors (sorry, I'm just an electronic engineer not working in electronics.. :))

Ok, let's start the brainstorming...

Why not several machine plans? Small one to start with that is economical, easiest to build, utilizes the least tooling. Emphasize getting steppers/electronics that have capability for more. Personally I think that something that builds quickly and easily with off the shelf parts is a good starting point. My suggestion would be several teams. One for a small entry machine (less than 2' sq footprint), one for a midsize 2' x 4' footprint, one for electronics. The entry machine should have parts that are available at a hardware store or on the web. My suggestion for the entry machine is MDF, 1/4-20 all thread for screw drive, drawer slides, roller bearings for ways. Should be able to be made with a saw & drill, plus common hand tools.

Phil

Vacpress wrote on page 1 “... some sort of pic-driven H-bridge bipolar might be best in terms of ease of assembly and cost.. the hudle there is programming the chip..”
Embeddedtronic.com has a design for a 3A 55V chopper drive that might be useful.
Kfong has posted here many times and might be interested in helping with this idea. There are boards and programmed PICs for sale ($10 each), but I think the design is open source so the schm and source code could be included and a link to the web site for those that want the PCB.
Bill

There have been over 180+ viewers of the following:
http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?s=&name=Sections&sop=listarticles&secid=10

So there is some intrest in a similar topic. I have yet to get any input from members - so maybe my request is in the wrong thread.

I'll try here - I proposed collecting data and compiling it into sort of a "System Integration Document". It would hang in the tech articles and basically be a reference for:

"How much money - buys me how much machine?" and,
"What works together -- and how well?"

In the previous tech forum I proposed a "Start Right" - similar to samualt's observation. Again no takers - so I commend the proposal and the initiative - and wish you luck!

BTW - I'm still looking forward to the inputs I solicited in the DIY Tech Section!
cheers - Jim

the prolem with that board is that it requires $35 of allegro chips that are difficult to get..

Vacpress,

Which board are you refering to?

FYI Allegro Micro freely offer samples on most of their products at no cost if you fill out the request form. I've received everything I've asked for.

The Embeddedtronic board uses National Semi LMD18245s, they sample with a shipping charge of $25 for an order of 5. The chips list $13 (?) each on Digikey, so kitting these boards would cost out about $60 an axis with PIC and passives. Also the LMDs are through hole and the newer Allegros are plcc, alittle harder for breadboarding.
Bill

In this thread I have some url's of a allegro 3977 I'm doing. I'll put the info for the driver board if it's wanted. The 3977 will drive 2.5A up to 35V, I would think that would be enough for midsize and smaller machines. I haven't yet because I've only run it one one stepper motor at 1A.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3664

Phil

I must say that I like the suggestions of samualt & High Seas, and chuckknight & Servo Guy, so that if you come to this site as a "newbie", the steps you'd take would be:

1) read the tutorial as per samualt and High Seas suggestions, to get an overview and general feel for what is possible and what you can do with the resources and skills you have,

and then
2) If you are like most, you have only simple hand tools available and maybe not much experience. So I think it would be a good idea to make plans for a machine that you can do with only hand tools, with very detailed instructions and tips. It should be a step-by-step instruction.

This could be really cool - as already mentioned above, it would make it possible for people to make dxf's available for add-ons and better machines made on this "standard" machine.

Someone objected that this would end up much more expensive - you'd have to buy new motors, guides etc for the better machine. However, with the knowledge from the tutorial, people could directly buy the quality they aim for in the end, but use it in the standard machine first. This may not sound very logical, but think about it - for most of us, it's possible to buy very nice components at low prices, if you are prepared to wait and take a few chances. It is NOT possible, however, to have machine parts machined for you for low prices, no matter how long you wait... unless you do it yourself, on your homemade "standard" machine!

So what do you think? It would have been perfect for me, at least :D

Arvid

radio-op - yah. those are the ones im talking about. i actually paid $15 for sample delivery, and it never came. i never called them either though....

for 60/axis, get xylotex! geeze.. 40/axis is an amazing price for those.

thats why i was suggesting a simpler solution, with a transistor h bridge for amplification, and a pic doing to step-generation... then, i know Nothing about the current limiting aspect...

I made a complete set of plans when I built my router. It includes every part and assembly drawings, all fully dimensioned. I was thinking of selling them, but I did not want to have to deal with the service side of that (emails etc.). I have kept them pretty much up to date as I have made changes/tweaks. I am more than willing to donate them to the cause if you like. This is what it looks like:

jgro

Awesome jgro,
how many more images like that do you have?
what are the dimensions?
are those linear bearings or roller blade bearings?
how much did it cost you to build?

...THIS IS A REQUEST TO ALL ACTIVE CONTRIBUTORS IN THIS PROJECT...

how does this machine look to make the plans for?
looks MDF, pretty cheap, all the materials look somewhat common.

...A REQUEST TO ALL DIY CNC ROUTER BUILDERS WHO ARE READING...

To help in the quest to find the best machine to make a set of plans/instructions for, please see HIGHSEAS questionairre:
http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?s=&name=Sections&sop=listarticles&secid=10

Thanks for all the help, lets keep this thread up, even though there will undoubtedly be some difficulties

-Tei

With highseas' data, we can figure out the best tactic to take so that we can come up with an effective set of plans

Jgro, awsome machine! What kind of tooling did you use to make it? This may get back to some of the earlier points. Personally I think Jgro's machine is what I would call a midrange machine, something I think their should be downloadable plans of. I'd like to think there is a simpler way to go for the person just starting with limited tooling. But again, I see nothing but good comming up with a dozen different set of plans, from cheap and dirty to precise and higher cost.

Yeah, this would fit the $$ category. But it will also be effective cutting aluminum and not limited to wood cutting

There have been some very good ideas posted and quite obviously an overwhelming interest in this subject. So the question is - Where to begin?

I vote for perhaps someone or or a group of people starting on design on a cheap mdf starter system with a very strong emphasis on this being a tutorial as to the hows and why things work. Perhaps a 18 x 24 cutting area max.

After that project is done, or perhaps even simultaneously, another project that is a bit more involved (read $) could also be developed. This machine could be stout enough to route wood and aluminum. Perhaps a machine designed to cut 30 x 48 or so with a design that is easily scalable to 48 x 96 or so. These plans would simply point out areas to consider in order to enlarge the machine properly and still have good performance.

Last but not least, some may be interested in how to add a forth or even 5th axis to a more involved machine.

Any thoughts?

I concur with Hack, how about if we start several threads each going down different paths. Then people can contribute to more than one thread design, or just the thread they are most interested in. One being as Hack suggested, maybe name the thread "K.I.S.S. MDF Open Design Router Plans"? (KISS principle for those who don't know - Keep It Simple Stupid) Objective, develop an entry level design DIY router, utilizing off the shelf parts as much as possible, limited tooling, low cost. Plans made available here at the Zone. Smallish footprint, accurate enough to be satified cutting wood parts. Detail plans, assembly plans, part lists and instructions. I'd concur with Hack on the footprint as a goal, but flexible if parts dictate a little larger or smaller. It would be nice if there could be subforums to an "Open Source Development" forum.

Phil

Originally posted by Hack
I think in my mind that since this is going to be a group effort, that perhaps no one should really profit from the design work, and that maybe these plans don't need to be in print so to speak but hosted on CNC Zone. If we could get some input from CNC Admin that would be great. If we could provide these for a small fee downloadable in say PDF format or something with the proceeds going to the site to help cover bandwith, storage space etc.

Any other thoughts?

Dan


Anything you guys want, let me know.

I have added a new download section- http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?s=&name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=15

All uploads will be reviewed before making public.

Ok...finally have internet access again! Yeah! I have a machine that I built using drawer slides for about $50. I have not run it yet. Have not even wired it yet! I love the build too much and am working on too many other projects at the same time. Will post some photos when I can.

Here you go.

Looks good, does it have a lot of play?

If you are going to put together a set of plans to give away, it is not really fair to use johns roller blade setup. He came up with the idea and got it functional, and he sells the plans that go wih it. Legally, you could probably do it since the idea has spread across the internet, but it is not really fair to him.

As an alternative, you could use chrome plated carbon steel rod. This is available at most metal suppliers, and is available in any country in the world. It is what they use for pushrods in hydralic cylinders. I bought a whole bunch of it real cheap, but the regular price is only $2 per foot (for 1 1/4). It is much stronger than gas pipe (I used it on my latest machine which is made of cast aluminum and cast iron and I regularly cut steel with my machine). You can make delrin bearings for it, use bronze bearings, or just bore a precision hole and slide it steel on steel since the chrome plated rod is exceptionally smooth and has much tighter tolerances overall than gas pipe or rollerblade bearings.

Stronger, cheaper ($2 per foot, but still cheaper than roller blade bearings and gas pipe. even if you get precision bronze bearings, they only cost about a quarter each) and available anywhere int he world. Hard to beat, IMHO.

Oh, and as far as I know, this an original idea by me, and I don't care who uses it or what they use it for.

I started a thread Where to start. What should be first?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3756

I agree that eveyone has something to contribute. there should be several machine sizes one for the guy with a large work area and one for the rest of us. We should start with a universal assembly list like components that make up such machine.. The size of the parts isn't important (eg length of rails) at first, that will develop as the machine does

Originally posted by gjahnke
If you are going to put together a set of plans to give away, it is not really fair to use johns roller blade setup. He came up with the idea and got it functional, and he sells the plans that go wih it. Legally, you could probably do it since the idea has spread across the INTERNET, but it is not really fair to him.



As far as I know, anything is fair game, unless it's a patented idea you can use any ones idea to build a machine. Roller blade set-up is not a patented idea, as long as no one takes someone else plans and and post them that it's not illegal to use bits and parts of other peoples ideas.

Just do not post plans that clearly belong to someone elsa, or that you paid form someone that sells them for personal use only.

http://www.comtrol.com/products/catalog.asp?product=rp_upci

I think this is a cheap controller card up to 16 axis can find them on ebay
Anybody know anything about them?

Contriler cards Thats somthing we need to look at as well.
Me personaly i'm not buying a controler card there to easy to make...

We should maby include plans for one with the design and also offer links to other's

And For the ugly duckling idea. (why not ake multi grade plans) Example one table design that can use everything from threded rod to acme lead screws. Drwar slides to nilon frictionles berrings./

All in one plan so as some one gets the cash or need to improve there design they dont have to build a whole nother unit.

[i] If we could get some input from CNC Admin that would be great. If we could provide these for a small fee downloadable in say PDF format or something with the proceeds going to the site to help cover bandwith, storage space etc.

Any other thoughts?

Dan [/B]

I like this Too.

here is a link to some inexpensive Linear bearing that my be of some use in the project.
http://www.buildyouridea.com/cnc/hblb/phase8/phase8.html
there is other information in his site that may be of use.

Patirck

I'm a newbie at CNC, I was a software systems architect (up to June 2002), but quit to start a woodworking businesss (guitars, dulcimers, clocks, whatever).......

I want to build a CNC Router to be my extra hands, since I have no employees (and can't afford any).

My questions are things I think anyone starting out asks. I have read a portion (small) of the threads here on DIY Routers as well as other web sites. One thing I haven't seen yet (although it may be here somewhere) is, "what can handle what? as far as size/material goes.

I think I could build a router (after the last week or so of research) that handles a dremel pro, but what about a 1 3/4 HP porter cable? Do I need 1.5" glide rods if the X axis is 48" and only supported on the ends?

I know the engineering data on manufactuers web sites probably give the whip, vibe, crush, etc...statistics but.......I'm looking at too much, too soon to be checking stats on every web site (and may not be qualified to determine it from their data/formua).

To my point, don't forget stuff like this in your deliverables (plans, etc)...

BTW, I have bought thomson rails with continous support and OPN bearing pillowblocks on ebay just because I got tired of trying to determine if I could do with less after searching, and searching...I have seen threads that mention the use of drill rod and skate bearings, but what's the accuracy, stability, repeatability, etc...

Oh, and I too have a 3D modeler (Rhino 3D v2.0) and can use it pretty well (I use it for my woodworking plans) so, if anyone needs any 3D, I'm willing to help (it seems several others can help with that also from the 1st page of this thread).

This sounds cool, please, just make it happen :)
Clyde (Stork)

Paul...it does heave some play, but not enough to where I think it will be noticable in wood or foam. I never intended to take on NASA contracts or anything! I might be able to find the time to wire up the controller, and check it out. Hot rods are melting my brain lately though!

gjahnke...Cranky claims to be the inventer of the bearing design, but his arrogance (in my experience with him, and IMHO) carries it a bit far. I will give him the claim to the gas pipe idea. That is a very slick low buck, thread together idea. Personally, I would rather use solid rod. 3/4" zink plated rod is generally the same price as the gas pipe, in the same hardware stores! I really like your suggestion of chrome shafting, and wish more people could see the low buck advantages inherent in such a system. Would like to see some photos of your uses.

I personally think that there are no exclusively origional ideas, only applications. As I have found out many times; not only with this stuff but with everything; when I have a cool new idea, I find out months after I have started experimenting with it that many other people have thought the same thing! It just takes someone who isn''t afraid of trial and error to make it work. Cranky seems to be good at this as well, and I applaud him for that. (I just always hate it when someone says "I invented this, and that" when really they should say, " I was the first to apply my ideas to tangible reality")

Sorry guys, late night ranting!

BlueRose,

I'm not sure that BuildYourIdea is selling those bearing assemblies.............I know he was working on further developments but last time we communicated (about 6 months ago), the indications were that he was withdrawing that product from sale.


OK, to the general principle of a "plan set"........while there are some great ideas here, people need to consider that:

1) not all newbies will want to start with a bare bones MDF machine.........I know this has been partially covered but I feel it needs more consideration and development.

2) everyone has different inherent abilities and talents..........some will be capable of handling the whole range of necessary skills (machining, woodwork, PCB making, electronics, etc, etc).......BUT, those will be the fortunate few, Most people will need to be guided and spoon-fed through aspects of DIY CNC and this will vary for each person.

3) in reference to #2 (above), there really needs to be a comprehensive "primer" written to accompany even the simplest plan set. This primer needs to give detailed coverage of almost all known variables that may be faced in design, material choice, motor choice, electronics choices and again comprehensive details of the implementation of these options. For example, it's no use getting all excited over DIY controllers when not everyone is capable of wielding a soldering iron and while there are numerous options available for purchase at reasonable prices................to focus on one at the expense of the other would be almost defeating the purpose of this idea.


If you are going to do it, then PLEASE DO IT PROPERLY.........not a half baked effort.

Hey guys,


I have just bought 7 stepper motors(bargain prices), and the g201 drivers(not so bargain).
I was just about to work out how to complete the rest.
This thread might just be my answer?

Mike

Originally posted by BlueRose
here is a link to some inexpensive Linear bearing that my be of some use in the project.
http://www.buildyouridea.com/cnc/hblb/phase8/phase8.html
there is other information in his site that may be of use.

Patirck

man those are amazing.

Balsaman,

if you are reading this, would you have any objection or misgiving about using your thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=646

for the table of choice for making plans?

Owen

I think Hobbiests machine above exmplifies my thoughts, that a design objective should be the designed result should be more assembly than detail fabrication. the builder gets familiar with all facets of building a machine. i.e. a learning process. COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) For example you can buy 1/4-20 allthread in 1', 2' and 3' lengths. While allthread is not the most desirable leadscrew, it will do the job functionally. A router that is based on those three lengths would mean no need for a metal saw or time to cut to a specific length. With 1/4-20, you can use Tnuts and threaded inserts to make antibacklash nuts. My vison would be to keep cost down, tooling required down, and wind up with a functional machine that would cut wood parts to tolerances that would be acceptable in woodworking.
What I would throw out is this goal:
1. Machine and jigs (if necessary) to require less than a 4' x 8' sheet of MDF. All square cuts, as Lowes and Home Depot and a lot of lumber companies will do a couple of cuts free, then very inexpensively. A cut list and plan that could be given to a "Lowes" to get the detail cuts done for those without the equipment.
2. Size to be determined by a 1', 2' and 3' pieces of 1/4-20 allthread.
3. Bearings to be simple and inexpensive. Examples - drawer slides, roller bearings, acetel, furniture glides, gaspipe, drill rod, etc.
4. Spinde motor TBD, but could be utilized in the construction.
5. Tooling techniques to use the all thread to help clamp, set parrallels.
6. For the followers that are metric based, a set of plans based on metric cots materials.

If there are any followers to this format, my suggestion would be that we start a new thread and refine/iron out the details. Those that have different objectives, stay and come to some common concepts and then start a new thread on those objectives, any remaining do the same.

Phil (PMINMO)

Hack
I say present to the forum several different designs and get a direction for going forward. I think a simplistic approach is the key. When plans are finalized a step by step assembly is essential, a road map as it were.
Mike

Originally posted by mikburts
Hack
I say present to the forum several different designs and get a direction for going forward. I think a simplistic approach is the key. When plans are finalized a step by step assembly is essential, a road map as it were.
Mike

I certainly agree that we need some project coordination (which is incredibly hard) or we're just gonna go around in circles.

Owen

As a complete CNC beginner maybe I can contribute in what a beginner may need to see to understand the goal and options on how to get there.
Foir instance,
A) It would be nice to see a fact page (faq) that lists the items needed in general(Spindle, acme rods, x- axis, y-axis, etc) to make a CNC machine work.
One fact page for each type of CNC apparatus(mill, wood router solid gantry, wood router moving gantry, latheect)
B)Then under type list the current design options available along with the proper terminology used for each peice part including detailed pictures (ie pics of ball srews, acme rod, gantry, etc, CAD guys chime in here!)
Each piece part listed under the different choices available would include a comparison of cost, accuracy, limitations, etc so the beginner can decide what would be required for his/her needs.
Probably spunds simple to most but that means the world to the beginer.

How does that sound?

Hey guys.........

I think everyone should throw ideas on the basic type of machine into the hat BEFORE any one direction is taken.....
Consider every available type of linear component first as this is a major cost item and decide on these..... next, frame work - Is this going to be aluminium, steel, wood ????
Get the component list rolling, etc.... and figure out details....

My questions to the group :

Are we talking Home Depot parts ?
Linear components - what type ?
Wood, Metal, Aluminum
What size machine ?
Router size ?

Budget ??

These things need to be decided FIRST - So everyone is on the same page.........

Then you can make progress...............

As far as the machine goes you should also be REAL about what it will be capable of......

Just my 2 cents..................

just to throw ideas into this thread,

I started a machine and what always slowed me down was the ability to do any machining, ( holes or slots for bearings or rods, or machining for bearings or lead screws,etc.) in keeping accuracy.

the basic plan should be built upon basic machines,( drill press, etc.) OR...

What I would like to see is a list of people that would like to do some machining processes, at a fair price.

EZ

Hack, since you are the thread starter, by default you get tasked. One common design, multiple designs, simple machine, complex, inexpensive.......... ? Time to start down a path(s).

Phil (PMINMO)

WOW, too much for me to read...
I'm looking to modify a knee mill to CNC, like an old bridgeport off ebay. I hav NO IDEA what to do. I think it is a great idea to make a set of plans. I would definately like to have a copy. :D

Originally posted by owhite
Balsaman,

if you are reading this, would you have any objection or misgiving about using your thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=646

for the table of choice for making plans?

Owen

No objections, just not sure if that machine is a good one for newbies. Too big, too expensive.

Eric

Hay metric or english thats ben confusing me to all ends.....

Could i get some con's and pro's on both?

Can one do the other?
that sorta thing.
What should i expect in a modling program...

And Yes CNCZone should have a few ppl to offer decent rates for complex cuts to the folks building there first :) hay Yo im building my first. Wana see my stepmoters spin OOoo neet ant it. now i just gota figure out how im gona atach these to allthred.
Alltho i'm thinking of acme rod i just cant seem to find a cheep sorce that lists price in feet!. or MM
God im gona need a metric conversion table. Why o Why do we amaracains use feet and inches .... ITS SO F#$%#$%# CONFUZEN! MEZ BRANZ GOING MELT..

hehe

umm
Could some one do me the kind converson
3foot travle 2inch deadzones on eather side. in MM
i just wana see what a ballscrew would cost me. i think my meger atempt at converson whent ary. i got a quote for 4 grand...

1" = 25.4mm

The only really affordable ballscrews are the 5/8" ones McMaster-Carr and others sell. Page 976 at http://www.mcmaster.com
$1.09/inch
$21.04 for the nut

Yeah, I say we definetely have some type of standardized measurement, or we might end up with Nasa's Mars attempt a couple years ago :)
Anyways, a few posts back I think that someone had the right idea. we need to get some type of organization in order. There are a lot of machines, many parts and a bunch of different designs ideas that members will undoubtedly contribute, but with all the information coming in and no one to organize it we will all be lost.
So I think that the first step should be to get some kind of organization.
I think that we should get a few "leaders" for this project that fulfill the necessary requirements:

*spend a lot of time on cnc zone per day
*are retired or work at home (that way they can monitor all the information that gets posted)
*have experience building machines
*know all the common machining terms
*are open to new suggestions
*are effective at communicating and responding

Lets all nominate some people and then ask them if they are up to the task

I'll set up a thread for nominations:

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3907

Originally posted by ger21
1" = 25.4mm

The only really affordable ballscrews are the 5/8" ones McMaster-Carr and others sell. Page 976 at http://www.mcmaster.com
$1.09/inch
$21.04 for the nut


These guy have great prices, I got all my ballscrews from them-
http://roton.com/index.jsp

Good idea, there are some very good, & some very bad examples arround. If we could come up with good, cheap (ish) & scalable, then it would be a worthwhile project.

Perhaps it could be looked at as a modular system?

My bag is electronics design, so if I can help, let me know.

Regards,

Ben.

how about this idea?

every machine needs 3 different kinds of skills.
1. mechanical
2. electronics
3. software

We start 3 different treads. In that treads we al put some idea in to the tread(this can be a idea a sketch or a drawing), after some time there will be a poll. Every member can vote on 1 idea. the idea with the most votes will win.

Then everyone who wants to improves this idea or sketch improves it and post it back. Then after some time we have 1 idea with a lot of sub-idea, this also results in a poll. par exaple the best bearing idea wins, als this sub-idea have to be combined into the finel idea and this we will putt on this side.

I think that 3 levels of machine ($, $$, $$$) and 3 kinds of skills (mech, electro, soft) makes 9 workgroups, that are too much dispersion of effort. The scope that is appearing must be narrowed/fixed as soon as possible in order to avoid weaking the objectives.

The skills division sounds logical although the soft team is unnecesary to me, we got turbocnc and emc almost for free, and mach1/mach2 costs not too much.

Maybe fixing scope around only one complexity of machine, and providing adequate mechanics and electronics to that complexity can be useful.

Fer

I think that the 3 groups consisting of mechanical, electrical and software ( Ferenczyg has a point that this can be ommited) sounds like a good idea but I still feel like we need to have a group of skilled DIY cncers with time on their hands to organize this. Please nominate yourself or someone else on this link:

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=30521#post30521

HELLO AGIAN.OK YOU GUYS HAVE GOT ME REELING,HEARING ABOUT PUTING PLANS TOGETHER FOR US NEWBIES IS JUST FANTASTIC.I FOR ONE WOULD CERTAINLY WANT TO PAY,EVEN IF THE PRICE WAS 20$.I THINK ITS ONLY RIGHT ,NOT ONLY FOR THE PEOPLE INVOLVED BUT FOR THE SITE ITSELF.BEING A CARPENTER HELPS IN THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION TO BUILD A MACHINE MYSELF BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO UNDERSTANDING THE ELECTRONICS OF IT ALL IM LOST IN SPACE.IVE GOT AUTOCAD 2000I ,IT WAS GIVEN TO ME BUT WITH NO EXPIERIENCE IT SURE IS HARD TO DESIGN VIA THE PC .WHAT SOFTWARE IS OUT THERE THAT IS MORE USER FRIENDLY.THANKS ALL ......CORRIE WILD.

yes. the jgro machine is fairly perfect for a first machine for a person with a modest budget of a few hundred dollars tops...

with a bunch of glue and screws, and made of good mdf, this machine would be a fun build. I REALLY wish something like that, even just some pictures ahd been available before i sent $35(!) to John K. for his plans... or "plans" ... i still like his ideas though, alot. i just shoulda known i was gonna get 1950s style "build this laser" style plans - not a real treatment of a subject like im used to when i buy a $35 piece of literature.


if plans start to materialize, id be happy to donate graphic design time. info graphics is something i like to do.

:)

drat- i just realized i am on page 3 of a 6 page thrad.

corrie - autocad is fine- you need to get some tutorials, or a book..

im sure everyone here who is good at anything, including software, has worked hard to get there. if your a carpenter, i bet you have some books on carpentry...

i have read dozens of books about creating art and engineering data... i have spent alot of time at Borders drinking coffee and reading and taking notes from $60 books i put back on the shelves.. my friend and I used to go do this in high school to learn about visual basic programming and electronics. we were geeks..

Thankfully.

also, i want to mention that i will build at least one of the designs as it is devloped. active beta testing is important for a good design.

Turbocad Learning Edition is free:

http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/0002.16

I've used it for several years, very powerfull for a free 2D CAD program. It also imports and exports dxf format drawings, although I believe since it is an older version, import of later versions of dxf drawings may not be possible.

Phil

I've been dismantling equipment and offerring steppers etc for the hobby market for around 10 years in New Zealand. This is my observation.
Most hobby folk will have a crack at building a machine if they can get suitable and cheap bits and pieces. New parts in NZ are really hard to find and have a premium price on for transport to NZ.
What is needed is a champion in each geographic region to be able to supply locally sourced parts or champion this sort of "open source" project. Perhaps on the CD a list of regional hobby suppliers is listed for alternative parts or hobby folk in other regions who would be prepared assist in securring components.
I can supply steppers, controllers (L297/298 kits)but linear rails are at a premium. T slotted Aluminium is nearly non existant.

Urpcor,

I found it cheaper to source my steppers, acme screws and pcb's direct from the US....it was still much cheaper than buying locally here in Aust.

Thanks.
Perhaps someone could put together references to suppliers that have their freight costs sorted for international regions, so when a style of machine is picked/designed, their is no issue with supply of components.

WOW, too much for me to read...
I'm looking to modify a knee mill to CNC, like an old bridgeport off ebay. I hav NO IDEA what to do.

In principle, it's very simple to do a CNC conversion.

OK, time for an example. On most mills there's a cross slide -- it's moved by turning a hand crank. Anything that moves by being turned in a circle, can be turned by a motor. You just have to connect the motor to the crank. (and usually you get rid of the hand crank, and connect directly to the screw)

Now, there's a special kind of motor, called a stepping motor, that moves in discrete "steps." A typical one moves in 200 steps per revolution.

A computer can generate the signals that make it turn (there are lots of wires involved...not just + and - like a regular DC motor) and at this point your machine is under computer control.

Of course, this is a ridiculous oversimplification, but it really is how it works! The hard part is the details...dealing with backlash, often upgrading the screw drives, fabricating motor mounts, generating the computer control codes, etc.

But, that's all the detail work...to start out with, if it moves by being rotated, it can be rotated by a motor. That's the basis for CNC.

-- Chuck Knight

Hello all! Being a CNC newbie, my biggest problem has been the amount of information in here and the fact that it is so spread around.

In my opinion a FAQ would be a good starting point. Specific drawings have the problem that the hardware is not universally available. Also, someone who is already targeting higher than the first level machine may want to purchase better bearings / ball screws and bigger motors he can reuse in the next generation machine. Drawings should be pretty universal so that the builder can choose the parts that are available in his area, and that best suit his needs.

Motors: What size (torque) do you need for a certain application (wood, alu, steel, bench / knee mill retrofit), which motor type would be recommendable (unipolar bipolar) and why, where they can be found. Stepper theory is not needed, there are lots of pages on the net to cover that.

Control electronics: Different possibilities for different motor size categories, DIY versions as well as well as commercial ones. Pros and cons? Price ranges?

Spindles: Which power is needed for a certain application, suggestions, where to buy

Frame hardware: Bearings (different types, where to find, how to make your own), screws / nuts (different types, pros/cons, where to find), frame hardware (MDF, Alu profile, etc). Possibly drawings?

Software: Different possibilities for design and control, where to find, pros and cons

Step-by-step instructions for a certain machine?

Petri

Instead of concentrating on a basic design that will only suit a few people perhaps when the next newbie sticks their head up we should actually design a machine for them. Obviously we would put the plans into a file, hopefully with plenty of pics. If we repeat the process a few times there will end up being several plans available.

The same applies to the electronics side, why not design (or suggest) several different drivers.

this is my idea

3 basic plans beginer intermediate adv????????

each with different stages

1. mechanical
2. electronics
3. software


and each stage with international and national equipment sources.

eg Us,m canada ,uk ,europe aus ,

And I would thnk it would be appropriate to make some of the parts reusable for each project??????????????????????????????????

I'm a little late jumping in here; but have been thinking about producing a variant of Dave Kush's HBLB. He's no longer producing them; and I've e-mailed for permission to produce a similar LB. Assuming that he has no objection, how much demand is there likely to be? I'm considering using an extrusion rather than a casting and don't want to pay for dies to produce something nobody wants...

That's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' type question.

How much is the set-up going to cost? how much extrusion could you get out of 'soft' tooling? What grade of ally are you going to choose, how dimensionably stable is it? Etc, etc.

I for one would buy a set or two if the price was right.

Obviously you will want to cover your costs, so a preproduction agreement to buy would (as you know) give you a breakeven per set cost. If, on the other hand you expect to make a profit, then it's much more of a punt (as it should be IMO).

To recap, price will be of the essence.

Just my two shillings worth.

The other potential problem is that an extrusion (akin to Dave's design), that is economical to produce, will only be good for one style of bearing AND only useable with one size (diameter) rod for the slides. This wasn't a problem for Dave as he was only producing the castings for his own machine design.

However, as a "special order" extrusion, it's viability will be totally dependant on the number of people who are making a machine which can accomodate the diameter rod suited to the extrusion and who want to use a semi DIY'd bearing housing based on roller blade bearings in preference to sourcing commercial slide assemblies.

While it is an admirable idea, I feel it is fraught with risks.

:cool:

If someone would like to, I think it would be cool to create a HTML page showing a flow chart of the process of building this machine from start to finish. A pictorial building guide for the new be. If someone wants to do this email me the HTML and I will set-up a page for it.

Paul, I just wrapped up a quick Roadmap proposal for this thread. Its not exactly what you mentioned - but may help (I hope) focus this effort. But alas - I "printed" as a pdf and can't attach it! ARGGGGGH - Back shortly with an answer I hope!

As a teaser, while I figgure out what next:

There are a few things to note - my graphics is as limited as my 2 finger typing - no appologies - but recognize the young studs - vacpress and others are better, quicker and have the energy to accomplish same.

Philosophy here for a moment - when we offer a set of plans - we automatically make choices for the builder. If we could create a plans template - then the plans could "grow" into a suite of plans - that could be modified and developed by tyhe users.

Focusing this effort is the intention of the attached roadmap. Take a look all - perhaps any discussion on the Roadmap could move to a separate thread if need be.

Cheers - Jim

You can now attach pdf files.

Paul - you are a PRINCE and fast too! Just tried a link through the Uploads as a bu - delete if need be (wood router plans)
So with not much more monkeying around -

It would be cool if there was an HTML page so that you could keep linking down to more specific details and examples from other peoples designs. If terms were linked to their definations, it would be handy.

Attached pdf courtesy of High Seas.

Thanks for responses to the extrusion idea. You're right - without some notion as to how long that string might be, it would be too risky.

Excellent Jim, I had pre written a post before seeing your piece. I had a surmized a lot of the same thoughts ->

There is such a dichotomy of needs.

These are facts for thought->
1. You can't go buy a reasonably priced DIY router, but you can the CNC software and electronics for one, so the open source machine(s) should be a focus at this time on the plan set(s) for a machine(s). There is an electronics Forum on the Zone.
2. There is a dichotomy of tools available to the DIY'er. (i.e. no tools to a full machine shop)
3. Metric and US component availability/familiarity makes plan(s) for both highly desirable.
4. There are several different plan forms of machines. Moving Gantry, Fixed Gantry...
5. There is a dichotomy of price needs.
6. There is a dichotomy of level of technical ability for those who want plans.

From that you have to assert one size fits all won't do the job.

From reading this thread I surmise->
1. There are needs for entry-level plans (cheap) as well as more accurate/costly machines.
2. There are expressed desires for moving gantry machine, which for the beginner is more involved than a simple fixed gantry.

Recommendation ->
1. Forget about the electronics and software at this point.
2. Create two threads, one for a moving gantry machine plan set, one for a fixed gantry.
3. In the design phase, shoot to design for both easy, fast and cheap for one version but with an eye towards a more refined version if the builder want to move up, or wants to start at the more expensive machine.

For example a moving gantry machine might be done on the cheap with gas pipe and roller bearings, but a second set of plans might use all the same elements but use Thompson precision ground shafting. In the design phase once a pipe size was determined, the holding method of the pipe would be dimensionally the same so that if removed, precision ground shafts would fit in with minimal changes.

What I believe would occur, is a couple of plan sets would wind up with many improvements over time, that you might have a bunch of plans available for downloading. If one thread or the other dies out, there wasn't enough need. No need to debate plan form, just go to the thread that is the machine you want to participate in. By creating two threads the focus starts to sharpen some.

Phil

FYI, I uploaded my plans in dxf format for those that are interested. I have the SolidWorks files also, but the zip file is 26 mb and there is a 6 mb limit to uploads. Have fun!

jgro

Couldn't agree more, it's the mechanical side that needs the attention of the experts on the group.

The electronics is easy to design, or buy.

jgro - THATS a pretty complete set of plans! So can you also add some details - (I just did a very quick look at them so it maybe covered in the parts inventory)

Details like:
what motors are you running? what controller and power supply?
what are the x,y,z specs? how about max feed (positioning) rate typical feed milling? an estimate for cost of building the system (less software, controller, motors, ps)

If those fit the bill of the Opensource - the job may be done?


BENHILL - (not the chubby Brit comic/actor?)
The electronics is easy to design, or buy
But the integration is the stumper - if you get the wrong motor with the controller, and attempt to drive it with the incorrect power supply - its all toast! More than a few posts on the Zone 'bout that!


pminmo -

1. Forget about the electronics and software at this point.
Again - maybe the answer is a third thread that just focuses on the integration of motors, controllers, powersupply?

Your insight about separate threads is a good on etoo - keep the lengths to something readable from end to end!
cheers - Jim

Originally posted by BENHILL

The electronics is easy to design, or buy.

I completely disagree. From what I've seen on this forum, there are some fantastic CNC designs. It seems that everyone buys the electronics.

Everyone takes so much pride in building the machine why not the electronics as well. That way you can say you have a 100% DIY machine.

I know there are more that a few people here that are talented enough to design there own electronics and build them.

There are also those that don't want to touch a soldering iron and would rather purchase.

But don't forget those that are tinkerers. They don't have the know-how to design a complex circuit, but know how to follow directions and want to build the electronics.

I fit into the third category and bet there are others too.

The PDF document is definitely a very good start as to what we should be looking towards for this thread. Thanks for posting it.

Personally what I was wanting to develop as a group when I first started this thread was a few things.

I wanted to start out with a basic tutorial for beginners. In this turorial it would include a basic dictionary so to speak of what each component does and a picture of it as well. Add to that a breif outline that has a step by step breakdown of how a cheap machine is built (cheap being anywhere from 0 - 500 dollars - Probably designed for a dremel or laminate trimmer). This outline should discuss design types (fixed gantry, moving gantry, etc and the benefits / pitfalls of each. From here a newbie could decide which type is best for himself / herself and move on to the rest of the outline pertaining to the type of design they chose. This step by step process should include exactly that, and when followed a newbie should have complete working machine and understand the hows and whys things work. Include lots of pictures. For a summary to that project, I would like to incorporate ways to "upgrade" the machine - For examples THK's, Lead screws instead of all thread, etc. Give cost estimates for these upgrades.

I am a firm believer that it is better to teach someone the hows and whys and not give them the designs alone. With the knowledge that is gained from the inexpensive system, one should be able to design a system for thier needs. A cheap machine is also more likely to get finished.

Secondly, develop a of plans for a medium priced machine (1000 - 3000) that a more advanced person can build.

The idea behind the medium priced machine is for the non beginners to build (read, people who know the basics from building the cheap machine) and want a nicer machine whether size, accuracy, etc is their motivation. This machine should be designed to be flexible in size, speed, accuracy, etc so the user can adapt them to thier needs. Include with this, parts lists, supplier lists, people willing do some machining if needed (or standardize some of the parts and sell them as a kit - maybe the cheap machine above should be used by someone to do the building of the second machine?)

Dan

Originally posted by mvaughn
I completely disagree. From what I've seen on this forum, there are some fantastic CNC designs. It seems that everyone buys the electronics.

Everyone takes so much pride in building the machine why not the electronics as well. That way you can say you have a 100% DIY machine.

I know there are more that a few people here that are talented enough to design there own electronics and build them.



My point wasn't to exclude anything, but to bring focus, without focus this will all die out because of going in circles. There is an opensoucre software forum and there is an electonics forum on the zone.

Phil

BTW, I have designed and built my own controller, so I do concur the 100% DIY

I would have thought that the 'integration' is common sense, but then I would, I design electronics..lol.

Sadly Benny died quite a few years ago now. Although I have lived not a stones throw from him all my life I never met the gentleman.

OK, break the project down into major component areas. Motors are both mechanical & electrical/electronic, but everything else is either one or the other.

If a general spec is outlined for a small (what is small?) machine & one for a large (same question), could not those 'in the know' break into groups to sort the design problems for each major component?

The danger surely, is the designed by commitee machine which instead of being all things to all men, is nothing to nobody!

I'm using a Xylotex controller and 116 oz stepper motors that I bought off of Ebay from Deepgroove1. These are the same steppers that Jeff at Xylotex sells. As for the dimensions, they are 15" x 30" x 6" cutting area.
The cost I would have to sit down and figure out. I estimate with the controller and motors, I've got about $400.00 stuck into it. Currently I'm using Turbocnc and getting 30 ipm jog speeds. Next I want to try Mach2 and see what I can get with that.


jgro

High seas, sorry to take away the glory:)
I made this before I saw that you had made a better one
its pretty disorganized but it can be made much better with proper software
It can be seen here:
http://www.teilhardo.com/cnc.png

Can the administrator put up a poll like:

What do you want to see in a free set of Open Source downloadable DIY CNC router plans?

What kind of Machine?

a) Moving Gantry
b) Fixed Gantry
c) Other

How much are you willing to invest in the total project cost minus a computer?

a) Less than $500
b) $501 to $1000
c) $1000 to $ 3000
d) More than $3000

How big of a cutting area?
a) Less than 2' Square Feet
b) 2 sqft to 7 sqft.
c) Larger than 7sqft

Select the on closest to the accuracy you are willing to pay for in component cost?
a) +/- .01 inch
b) +/- .002 inch
c) +/- .0005 inch

Would you consider that you have the tools to build a DIY CNC Router?

a) yes
b) no
c) no, but willing to invest in some

tei - nice chart! And no worries.
If you are looking for an app to do the chart with, I offer that a few years back we used "Inspiration." It worked real well for flow charting, decision tree building and particurally well for building cause-effect diagrams (trees).
Why don't you add yours to the downloads section? It graphically gives a good idea of the decisions to be made. It could go in the tech articles section - How tos home build?

BENHILL - small, Medium, & LARGE!

Phil - Nice survey input Especially the "accuracy" vs cost descriptors!

cheers - Jim

How about a "proof of concept model" project, that would show the person that computer control is actually possible, for them.

One of the guys on the wooden clocks site has put up a pair of interneshing gears, as a proof of concept model. That way you don't have to worry about whether or not you can "do it."

A stepper motor, a super simple driver (4 lines on the parallel board, and a few transistors), and maybe a vise, would prove the concept of computer control to the first time builder.

-- Chuck Knight

I think that those survey questions are great and they should give us some idea of what people want to see

hey Paul (CNCadmin), could you set us up some kind of survey like that??

Thanks,
Tei

High Seas, thanks for the compliments- I'll look for that software and put my .png file in the downloads section...

I wonder if people would agree that if we simply had _one_ good set of plans describing a two rail system, a gantry, and a z-axis, even a high end version, that modifications could be made to those plans to go up or down in price.

eh?

Owen

Originally posted by owhite
I wonder if people would agree that if we simply had _one_ good set of plans describing a two rail system, a gantry, and a z-axis, even a high end version, that modifications could be made to those plans to go up or down in price.

eh?

Owen

While I personally don't think one set of plans would satisfy eveyone that has shown interest, I do think there needs to be a popular starting point, thus my request for the survey (or similar) above. The more I search the web, read all the DIY CNC stuff, one thing becomes obvious, there are some really creative people out there. Some of the machines are so simple it's truly impressive. But back to your thought, there could be a ton of commonality in one or two fundamental designs that are at opposite ends of the cost vs accuracty spectrum. For example, 3/4" gas pipe is 1" in diameter. Around my neighborhood 4' is about $5. As is, could probably build a system that is in the .01 inch tolereance region. Now the other end would be hardened polished shafting, roughly $140 for 4' of 1" dia., and 4' of matching support $180 with considerably better accuracy and longevity. A 2' x 4' piece of 3/4" MDF for a base would be less than $10, but a 1/2" precision ground 6061 tooling plate the same size would be a couple of hunder bucks. I could see a person starting with the MDF and gas pipe, and at a later date slip in the precision shafting and tooling plate for example. If there was a simple effective planset based on components that had logical precision counterparts on the ZONE in DXF format, I bet peole would download and make design changes to meet their pocketbook/need and upload them. So on and so forth. Next thing you have is lots of plans available. I'd like to see all that creativity put to use to make the simplest, cheapest that amazes the user on accuracy. Group Think, KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), "build it and they will come". BTW the stupid part of the principle, I see in the mirror every morning when I shave. :-)

Phil

Phil,

For what it is worth (about two tenths of naff all...lol), I think you are not only hitting the nail on the head, but driving it through three feet of concrete!!

I want to be able to prototype PCBs, none of which will ever be more than 12" on a side, I don't need much axial thrust, but I do want accuracy. I may go stepper or I might go servo.

At the size I need, stiffness is much more easily achieved. Motor control just won't be a problem for me.

Now the guy who wants to cut wood three feet on a side at a reasonable rate is, I suppose going to have somewhat different needs.

Hopefully not too many of my remarks will be quoted back at me this time....lol.

When building my "toys" I usually like to design for "future" modifications. I like using Nylatron bearing stock for my slides, but make them the same size if I want to install linear bearings later instead. The same goes for the rails. I use unhardened, but ground drill rod for the rails, but could substitute hardened shafting if I want too. I made my own anti backlash nuts (one on each side of a plate) out of the Nylatron, and designed it for ballscrews to screw in if I wanted to. (changed to ballscrews for fun)
Anyway, the point I think I may be making is design for "low buck" , but upgradable also.
Although a lot of people like to tinker with electronics, I for one like stuff ready to go. Geckos if you have the cash, or as simple as a 50.00 3 axis kit from www.hobbycnc.com (that's what I use)
Checkout the photo pages, RickOmatic to see the results. I'll be at the NAMES show in Michigan, April 24th,25th also! Rick

I was under the impression from the start of this thread that the idea was to investigate the possiblilty of having a comprehensive guide for the newcomer to DIY CNC.

If this is correct, then you can't brush aside electronics just because there is already a forum for that, just as you can't really brush aside software..........they should all be included in "The Newcomers Guide To DIY CNC" or if you wish "The Definitive DIY CNC Primer"......even if their inclusion is only dealing with accurate information covering their basic use implementation.

If this is worth doing, it is worth doing properly!!!

Putting up plan-sets no matter how good they are should only be the "icing on the cake" at the end of the "Guide", once everything has been explained and hopefully sufficient knowledge gained to allow people to then understand the plans and assess which design may be right for them.

:cool:

So what, specificaly do you want to know about the electronics & software aspects? Or is it just general info? How deep into these topics do you thinck we need to go?

In essence I agree with you, but where do we start or finish? I may be wrong (I have a talent for that), but I suspect that those skilled in the art know that this could become a huge undertaking. We could end up going nowhere fast unless we define our terms of reference & (as someone else said) focus our efforts.

Any size of machine would illustrate most of the basic principles involved. Once a decision is made as to what size, perhaps the first goal would be to focus on just that project, but covering all of the issues to give us a good overview.

Maybe what we need is a great & mighty leader to make a few decisions here, maybe not, but some direction might be welcome.

I stumbled across DIY CNC'ing last September while researching methods of engraving audio gear.............prior to that I knew nothing about it. Fortunately, I possess the abilities to make a decent machine (aluminium), and hopefully muddle my way through installing the Xylotec boards, etc., I'll worry about the puter later on :D . Unfortunately, pressing family matters have meant that I haven't completed my machine's design and probably won't for another couple of months.

My point is that I have spent several months in limbo at "newbie" level, pondering the alternatives in design and materials and even though I have read so much here, there are still countless details which I haven't seen definitive answers to...........they may have been addressed, but are laying buried in some long forgotten thread.

To do this properly will be a mammoth task and will require focus and dedication on the part of those who take it on.

Compiling a "dictionary of terms" should be relatively straight forward, but it is the authoring of the guide itself that will make or break this "project".

Maybe it can be successfully approached by breaking it down into the individual components/sections of a machine and dealing with each in the order that you would normally use if you were making it, eg: start with discussing the various methods of base/frame construction which may or may not include the end plates which support the X-Axis shafts, then address the various options for the shafts/slides and associated bearing options, etc, etc. If written in this manner, the authors should be able to deal with each section and it's associated problems before moving onto the next component, kind of "let's thoroughly explore "A" before we move onto "B" kind of thing, then explain how and why A and B go together"..................

If this proceeds, whoever takes on the task will have to approach it with a totally open mind and be capable of discussing design and material alternatives in a completely unbiased manner, writing about ALL reasonable options, NOT just the options they believe are correct.

For some inspiration have a look at how one person approached writing a basic guide to using lathes.......http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/techindx.htm

:cool:

This is definetely a great guide to use as a template for a "newbie guide to CNC"

The connections between each subchapter are very important in forging a newfound understanding for CNC but I think that we still need to get some leadership going
Is anybody interested?

"Looking for people wanting to develop new plans for a cheap cnc" is the name of the thread, I took that to mean measured drawings to build (dxf's pdf's...) and cheap meaning inexpensive.

Phil

Here's my take on this thing. Start out with a set of plans for a small router for beginners. Moving gantry, as that seems to be the most popular. (and uses the least amount of space) I'd design it around a PC laminate trimmer. For the X and Y, use 1" drill rod with bronze bushings, with the option for ground shafts with linear bearings. (They would both use the same basic mounting, design to accomodate the biggest one). The 1" would let you get about 30" without much deflection. Use 1/2-3/4" for the z-axis, same basic design. Use a Xylotex, and provide a list of acceptable motors, with vendor info. (Include Deepgroove1 from Ebay). Provide a list of web links with alternate diy drivers. Most diy drivers won't give you performance as good as the Xylotex, and the cost savings wouldn't be that great. Use 1/4-20 leadscrews, upgradeable to 1/4-16 or 3/8-10 acme for better performance (not sure why no one uses these, they're relatively inexpensive). Use MDF, or for a little more money, Baltic Birch.

Tools required:
Tablesaw (You can get aroud this with just a router and straight edge)
Drill Press
Router

Start with something like this, 24 x 24 x 6. When you get the plans for this setup. Move on to the next set of plans. Bigger is more expensive. Smaller is cheaper. Different components are required for each. Start with a machine for first time builders.

Phil,

I know what the thread title is, but the following quote is taken from a post by Hack............


"Personally what I was wanting to develop as a group when I first started this thread was a few things.

I wanted to start out with a basic tutorial for beginners. In this turorial it would include a basic dictionary so to speak of what each component does and a picture of it as well. Add to that a breif outline that has a step by step breakdown of how a cheap machine is built (cheap being anywhere from 0 - 500 dollars - Probably designed for a dremel or laminate trimmer). This outline should discuss design types (fixed gantry, moving gantry, etc and the benefits / pitfalls of each. From here a newbie could decide which type is best for himself / herself and move on to the rest of the outline pertaining to the type of design they chose. This step by step process should include exactly that, and when followed a newbie should have complete working machine and understand the hows and whys things work. Include lots of pictures. For a summary to that project, I would like to incorporate ways to "upgrade" the machine - For examples THK's, Lead screws instead of all thread, etc. Give cost estimates for these upgrades.

I am a firm believer that it is better to teach someone the hows and whys and not give them the designs alone...........etc, etc."



:cool:

Sorry - been off sorting out a posting/attach problem with the cncAdmin let me try this again...

I can understand why no one is rushing to take up the leadership role here!

We are essentially creating a virtual organization, which is clearly composed of many tallented, experienced, and opinionated people. Being the leader of such an organization would be a large task, full of frustration, and require that person to weigh and judge each opinion and input. Wow - a tough job!

To make it a bit easier - we could chunk it and eat the whole sandwich!!
I've added the following organizational suggestion as an attachment (hope it goes!)

New Thread - Open Team Cheap DIY CNC Moving Gantry Router

I'm not trying to stop this thread at all, just start some focus(direction) for those who might be interesed in this kind of machine format and objectives, see if it catchs on or not. I have no pre conclusions on anything in the picture posted, could look entirely different, same for objectives and goals.

Phil

I Agree with HiString..........!

Clyde, HiString, I agree with you too, but if a good set of plans is provided, the full newbie can learn a lot and the not so newbie can start the adventure of building. IMHO, of course

Fer

OK, hands up who's been mid to senior management, &/or has really, actually managed medium to large projects.

Then of those who express an interest in the job the group can choose a project leader, a deputy & a first reserve.

Well, it's an idea, any takers?

Highseas, you are a real smart guy... A man with the plan

I think the way that your .pdf file explains it is perfectly. So now what we need to do is start the "project teams" which can work out their own organization?

I also think that the web "journal" is a great idea for diagraming the progress of the group

I'll quote Benhill:
"its an idea, any takers?"

who wants to be part of the senior managements, biggest choice it means is time commitement

-Tei

why has this: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3934 thread gotten so little attention?

I am posting this page as an example of how this thing could look with a little work. the content was created for something else and does not reflect what would be specifically appropriate for this project.

I have seen some great 3DCAD from active members here, and with some decent CAD databases, we could create a very graphicaly rich and detailed synopsys on building these buggers..

Image does not work for me..

Fer

fixed

That looks really good vacpress.

First-- thanks to Tei for his nomination.
I hear no "second." Maybe thats a good thing.

BENHILL - I can offer a bit of said mgmt experience - but rather not use that as criteria.

I do offer my assistance in; organizing, steering, and developing the vision (leadership functions) for the effort. Let me collect my thoughts.
I'll be back in the morning.

cheers - Jim

I'll throw in a second on HighSea's. I liked his presentation also. It's a full system approach. Great learning tool.

Phil

here here.. I will also nominate high seas.. I like what I see. another question is do we build said machine as we go. I would like the direction.. I haven't run a cnc in years... started collecting parts and suppliers for parts..

I can build anything I can see.

I would be more than happy to post my progress.and improvements

Looks like someone allready did something cool
http://www.otocoup.com/Plans3Dcoup.htm#_Plans
I do not speak french but this machine looks like it can be made cheaply

There is an English version available there.

What do you think about maybe seeing if any of the newbies have a request? Like maybe a questionare to fill out before they can sign in as a guest, run this for a month or two while everybody gets there leadership in order. Take this info as the basics of the groups plan goal.

Also. lets not forget whats under our own nose. Look in the photo gallery and you'll find some dam good ideas, keep it simple and basic like the rick-o-matic unit. It does NOT need to be big to get results
Maybe the machine can be a small import mill converted to cnc if its within the set price range for the newbie or the forum's set goal. I bet we all would have a boss II if they where cheap, make this a package that is relieable and accurate as you can for a set buck.

This should not be a package of what you would do on a second build but your first build!(without the mistakes) Make as if it was a package that your son or daughter had to build without any outside help. Give them correct info with the sources and documention needed to the building of a cnc package. Once they have the first one done and make parts they will have the basics. Making something bigger will then be easy for them as they can make all those little parts that make big toys. Just ponder the the idea that the forum starts with a basic cnc then an interm unit to an advance unit.(just an idea to please all)

Also as suggestion we have a very big field of experts here from around the world in this fourm, make the parts list with sources and suitable alternatives from all the worlds market. Use as much open source and off the shelf items as possiable. Not everbody is blessed a machine shop in there basement or garage. It's easy for the pro to say do this or do that, lets back this up with the right stuff. The first area that I feel must be addressed is where any part gets started, on the drawing board. not everybody has autocad or what ever you use. Lets see if this idea can get off the ground here, what shareware or freeware cad program can this group nail down and EVERBODY involved with this idea MUST USE. Now I know that this may upset some of you out there, but think about it, it makes sense as the newbies and the pros here can be on the same page and nobody spent any money yet, and no I'm not telling anybody who,when or what to do here but if its the forum goal to create a package for the newbies, it should be based that all that they have at the table here is the pc that they are viewing this site and with the idea of having somthing made by a cnc machine. It should be a goal here to make the most with less, just as you did when you first got the bug for cnc.

As a last note if there are forum members that are vendors for any of the items that may fit this need of the package as far as software or the hardware let the leaders of this project know as you never know how much all as to gain, sales for you and discounts for fourm members(maybe?)

I only wish that when I first got started that I know now what I did not know then, as I would be way a head of the game.(providing I had more time to play)

JEFFY

Here is a link to the English version that Nono just posted.

http://www.otocoup.com/Plans3Dcoup_e.htm

It would appear that the "End Elev" plan on Nono's site is missing..........well it is at the moment.

Sorry, just amended that to "End"

Thanks Todd I can put my french/english dictionary away :-) still need to convert from metric to english though

"each with different stages

1. mechanical
2. electronics
3. software"

Hm, "get it built first" is what I always seem to read on this site but 2 things could be added to the list above:

(maybe listed as 3b) Controller software and gcode generating software. They are, after all, 2 different animals. Before I purchased Mach1 I was totally ignorant of step and direction control. Now, I'm just a little stupid. But, you have to have gcode and/or the software to create it. Some folks who are just starting out may not know this nor have the where-with-all to find out how to do it.

#4 on the list should be trouble shooting. This may be asking for trouble. (sorry about the pun) Listing all the elements would seem horribly complex to me. And going with your basic anecdote may make for heavy reading; catagorizing the information alone, could be boggling. But, I think some sort of trouble shooting guide is a must. High seas did an excellent job of doing just that when he'd had problems with an axis in this thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2822

'bet he figured it out in the end, eh?

So, now my final point: if he has time, I'd like to nominate high seas for the leadership role. (He is definately more organized than I am.) But, I think its important that he wants the job. What a lot of responsibility! Jim, or anyone who ends up with this task, if you need help, I can probably devote 3-5 hours a week. Anybody else?

My claim to fame (snicker snicker) 3d modeler, welder, machinist, artist and all around trouble maker. Oh, yeah, and I write for a living.

So. Got pics? Designs? Drawings?
Lets get things rolling!

Well let's hope that High Seas want's the job, as he does seem to be "The Man with the Plan"!

Personally, I hope that the eventual choice of machine takes into account the twin concepts of 'very simple' & 'as cheap as possible'. Being somewhat financially challenged, & without doubt rather intellectually so, simple & cheap appeal to me greatly.

However, the eventual choice must be useful to the widest range of we newbies as possible, 'the light must be worth the candle'.

Personally, I want to be able to mill PCBs, & I'd really love to be able to machine small, non-ferrous metal items. For PCB work, I need an X & Y of no more than twelve by twelve inches, & for metal a max Z height of four to six inches should be ample. Work piece hold-down needs to be simple & secure (I have some nice 'over centre' clamps to use). Swarf/dust removal by vac cleaner is a serious consideration for me. Last, but not least, minimum footprint would be another of my important considerations.

Well that's what I want, nevertheless, I suspect that the majority will want something a tad larger, & optimised for Woodcutting. Perhaps, as I'm sure has been suggested earlier, a poll should be conducted to ascertain just what it is that the majority do want.

When we go to the more advanced machine design I would like to hear from anyone who has used the castable polymers that they have created for making machine bases. I like the idea of making a plywood and foam form to cast a machine. Have threaded metal inserts in place for attaching linear rails. Mill off the mounting faces for square and you end up with a bolt-together machine using linear rails and ballscrews. If you look at the construction of the Haas tool room mill you’ll see the concept only they use cast iron. I just don’t know how good these castable polymers are.

If you are going to look at room temp castables, don't forget concrete, it's a much more versatile medium than most give it credit for.

Well, I'm not sure what castable polymers that you are thinking of, but the ones that I have used in the past on extreme accuracy diamond turning lathes were extremely expensive. There are also only 2 suppliers still left in the US, Anocast (a division of Anorad) and Hardinge Machine tool (the people who make really nice metal turning lathes) Usually it was only used when a simple granite surface plate couldn't be used. Plus, there is the form to make, which is far more involved than you might think. It would need to be sealed, and stand up to the pressure at the bottom of the mold with all of the liquid in it. Again, I'm not sure what scale you are talking here. The last one that I designed was 15,000 pounds, and extremely intricate. Anyway, it's basically epoxy resin with granite chunks of various sizes.

I like the idea of concrete. Very cool. Plenty of mass, nice and cheap, easily re-inforceable with rebar, and easy to mount the inserts in. Just remember to oil the mold or use wax as a release agent.

Ok after much thought and prodding - I'll continue to provide some sence of direction and organization to an effort that seems to have some interest. (Together we can bring order out of this seeming chos)

First, of most recent note, pmino - Phil has begun a separate thread. Good On'ya Mate! That seems like an place that some members would like to focus. I strongly encourage that effort and hope to see many fine results from that forum. (Hope I read that approach right - Phil).

Second I've prepared a draft charter for all that are interested in the "other thing" and would like to participate in it.

I ask you read it through, give it some consideration over the next few days, and consider volunteering to help out if it "fits." If you are interested and the charter needs some tweaking - or your level of participation is different than outlined - still consider volunteering and we can perhaps come to some middle ground.
If you haven't already read the earlier IPT document and the Roadmap, you might want to review those too.


The challenge we all have is self policing our posts - and I'm at the head of that list too!

I'll begin a new thread late Sunday or early Monday - so if you can hold your discussions until then we can keep on track. Remember - Input, critical thought and volunteers, come Monday, 19 April 2004.
It'll take that long for my brain to rest -
cheers - Jim

I was thinking abvout something like http://www.zanite.com/welcome.htm

High Seas, I only started a second thread because I was concerned this one was dying out. If there is interest in my thread I willing to keep an effort going in parallel. But in all honesty I would really like to see an end-to-end total project, well documented and hosted here. The path your going. The CNCZONE has become my favorite daily reading. From a personal note, I started down my own path afer dropping to many dollars for a set of plans that I wound up not liking. It was a moving gantry design using cheaper components, and stopped fabrication because I decided I really wanted something more accuracte and expensive. Learned a lot though. But it would have been nice to have had one focal place to look through an entire process and machine. Designing electronics and writing embedded software is what I was educated to do, but have been managing engineers for the last 20. I did post a chopper controller board I've been working through in the thread I started . Pics:
One axsis assembled board:
http://webpages.charter.net/pminmo/proto3977.jpg